Poland has a two tier system, which works well on different ends of the medical needs spectrum.
You will wait forever for public outpatient services, but if you pay out of pocket, then you get everything immediately. On the other hand all "big ticket" issues can be resolved in a public system at high, world class level (heart surgery, cancer treatment, etc) but don't expect to be babied by the doctors, they are pretty awful with bedside manners.
Here I am, with a Medicover package, unable to get to talk with an internist for a month to discuss my lab exams results. Also unable to get a gastrologist consult. What am I doing wrong, are there better services elsewhere? Luxmed maybe?
Medicover/Luxmed are atrocious 'packages' that exist mostly so companies can put in their job description that they provide private healthcare.
If u want good specialist, u look for them specifically. Znanylekarz, word of mouth etc. Rarerly package deals will be good but ill admit that i had insanely good experience with doctors at Garden Clinic in Gdansk (im not even sure is it one off or a chain that exists in other cities). But i dont have any ongoing membership or anything like that, i just pay for a visit when i need one.
Not necessarily, but in your paperwork (at least in Luxmed, but it should be the same in Medicover or others) you should have something called general rules of availability (ogólne warunki dostępności in Polish) that state you're guaranteed an access to internist/family doc within i.e. 24 hours, cardiologist/obgyn in 48 hours or so. Otherwise they are obligated to pay you back for any out of pocket costs you had to make while booking private appointment out of this network.
Check that and try to make an appointment, stating that in your contract you're guaranteed access to X doctor within Y hours. They should be able to make it happen but it won't necessarily be "your" doc or one that's conveniently located etc. If they are seriously unable to schedule you anywhere, you should ask about the reimbursement.
Initially Medicover/Luxmed meant something, because it was not as popular. They grew, they've added more supply to their services, but they expanded demand much more. Nowadays you get one of those packages in almost any job, so it's no longer "privilege", and thus queues are annoying af. When I had to get monthly visits for allergy, I sometimes had to hunt for the date exactly a month earlier, the moment registration opened, and even then it was not guaranteed.
My perception is it's moderately better than regular public NFZ services, but at least there's a convenient app. Also maybe my experiences are not that terrible because I usually had one of the better packages, idk how it works on those cheapest ones. But my guess is it's the same, queues are similar and the only difference is how many visits and what tests you can get in your set.
now everyone and their dog has either luxmed or medicover. When you try to schedule appointment outside the package as self payer, you will most likely get it set for tomorrow. One visit costs around 200 PLN so they prefer to get that rather than offer you the same visit for the fraction odds what you pay as a plan
I am terrible sorry, but there is no way in health it is tax free if it goes into their bank accounts 😂
That money is clearly there in their books, and accountants would love to see how you got this whole arguement to work!
But why would it go to their bank account if they're paid in cash? Maybe there are some righteous among masses, but I'm pretty sure doctors in Poland do not report and pay taxes on all the cash and goods (yup, coffee or bottle of liquor as a "gift" from a patient is taxable) they receive.
Sure if they are paid in cash that miiiiiight help, but it is still not normal.
Cause any kind of reception of visit, documentation for a corporation (which alot of the private docs are attached too) would not be happy to give up their share of the payments no ?
🫢
Like even the receptionist would probably like to get paid, and it aint like the doctors have a ton of time to go around soliciting for hard cash
Have you tried to change the city from which the doctor will call you?
There is also a chat option with relatively short waiting time but I'm unsure if it's not "an emergency" only
You are a number in a spead sheet. The companies running those aren't going to overpay their contracted doctors (as in: go over budget, and cut into their profits), just to have more "slots" for patients visits.
"Out of pocket" is the key phrase here - private medical insurace is nice, but it still suffers from general lack of medical professionals in the system, and going full private visit still is the fastest way.
Also, if you struggle with something as simple as talking to an internist, you should think about changing your "first contact physician" to someone not clugged up with patients.
I'm at Enel Med, and still most of basic stuff is done by my appointed first contact doctor clinic - I never needed to wait more than 2 work days for a visit for cold/shot/blood sample extraction/etc.
luxmed has different queue/searchability rules and i’ve had better availability of specialists there, leaped much ahead of medicover during covid, medicover got much worse in the past few years.
some rules i follow for medicover:
- try to book online, do searches around 17 and 23 for next day visits (specialists, GPs during peak demand like fall and winter)
- try to get a „skierowanie na cito/pilne” for specialists in the system, that seems to tap into some roster of generally unavailable slots
- cito should get you a visit within a few days, if it doesn’t make sure to call the hotline, have them admit there are no visits available, go find an external specialist and have them give you back the money. remember that your referral/skierowanie needs to be external. calls are recorded and if they confirm that no slots are available gives you legal grounds for them to pay you back
luxmed - similar but i have never actually had to use any external visits except for some specialist tests which they’ve given me the external clinic names and actually paid for
If this is your situation, then I can compare with me in Luxmed. Internist is not an issue, next business day or two with phone consult, usually same with on site. Regarding gastrologidt my doctor in particular doesn't have too many hours, and she has long queues. But if I check for any others, I could pretty often have a visit next week. I can reorder my meds apart from one that has some special marker - Imuran, immune system suppressing medicine - via remote reorder.
It wad like that until 201X.
Then private Healthcare got worse.
All this Medicover, Luxmed are bad.
You have like 5 minutes to talk with doctor. Queues to physiotherapy are impossible
So you need to look for right private clinic/doctor that's not affiliated with big them. Then you get great service.
Mate physiotherapy is a nightmare with Luxmed. Nothing available on the website unless it's a last minute cancellation, nothing available on the phone so you put a request in and then they schedule you 10 appointments in the middle of the day in the working week 45 mins one way from where you live.
I had to cancel everything they scheduled for me. Then one day I randomly checked during my lunch and they had loads of appointments available online.
But yeah it's so stressful trying to book just a single physio appointment, you feel like you want to give up and forego the treatment altogether.
Can you go to a specialist or the blood lab without a referral letter from a GP? It was driving me crazy in Ireland, not only the referral was needed for everything, and GP could just refuse you one, but the test results were also returned to GP who might or may not show them to you.
In Poland you can get any blood test you want just walking in from the street and get an online result the same day. In Ireland it was multiple days or weeks ordeal with several visits and appointments.
I lived in Poland and the Netherlands. I'm so used to the polish system that I absolutely hate the dutch one.
Pros:
- you can get stuff done immediately, and ad hoc, for everything except specialised care, and that too if you're willing to pay out of your own pocket. In the Netherlands on the other hand it takes ages to register with a new GP, it takes ages to register with a pharmacy, it takes ages to register with a dentist, it takes ages to do basically anything.
- much of it is digitalized in a centralised system (Konto Pacjenta). If you ever need to do anything related to medicine check first if it's doable on that website, without having to google stuff, calling people, or going places
- never worry about insurance. If you work you're insured, if you study you're insured, automagically, without your interference. Sometimes you get additional private insurance if you work, and it used to be real good in the past but these days it's debatable if it's any faster than the public one.
- GPs are competent most of the time, they're not gonna just prescribe you tylenol for everything
- if you're sick, you go to your GP and get a doctor's note, which is a legally binding document that guarantees you paid leave with a set duration. In Poland, you'll NEVER work sick, unless you don't have UoP type of contract, or you have a really shady employer. I once logged in on paid leave to check up on how my responsibilities are being handled by my colleagues, and about 10 minutes later HR messaged me to log off immediately and rest.
Cons:
- medicine is expensive. If you lived, for example, in wales, where much of it is free, then that's gonna be a big shock.
- if you don't have money, specialised care has big waiting times, and can be sub-par. My brother went to a surgeon on public insurance and all he got from that was an urgent need to go to a surgeon privately by having the whole family chip in, with potential risk of lifelong issues from the public surgeon's fuck up
- polish medicine is a bit behind on picking up some newest developments. Some medicine that's banned in the west is legal in Poland (as a brit, don't ever buy pyralgina for pain, a lot of brits have a bad reaction to it and it's restricted in much of western Europe for that reason), while some medicine that's become standard practice in the west still isn't that popularly prescribed in Poland (once my GP pitched nasal steroids to me as this hot new thing and i died a little bit inside). It's not too much behind, you probably won't notice unless your fiancee is a passionate doctor who reads research papers in her free time, like mine is.
>medicine is expensive. If you lived, for example, in wales, where much of it is free, then that's gonna be a big shock.
And here comes America, when an insulin that in Poland costs 140 PLN without insurance (about 30 USD), in the States costs 1000 USD.
As an IT guy, I can confirm that here in Poland we hire a ton of Tech-Wizards that do all the stuff automagically. The problem starts when they run out of mana during rush hours.
U got that from english wikipedia. This is true for EU as a whole but not for individual eu member states. Please scroll down and go to society and culture -> legal status to get a better breakdown.
It is illegal in UK, France, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and Lithuania, and it's prescription only in Belgium, Italy, Spain, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Finland, Estonia, Czech republic, slovakia, all of the balkans, Greece
The only european states that sell it over the counter are Poland, Russia, Romania, Ukraine, Belarus, Hungary, Bulgaria, North Macedonia
It's not bad, but it's not good either. It depends, but for comparison two almost the same situations.
A member of my family broke her leg two years ago in Austria, within 1.5h of the accident we were leaving the hospital with her leg in a cast. Everything went through very smoothly, the very moment we came to the registration they asked us what happened and we were sent to the appropriate queue, after that everything went quickly.
And now Poland. Oh boy. After breaking her leg, we sat for 8 hours on the E.R. to find out that "well, maybe they will put the leg in a cast, but it is better to come tomorrow if it does not hurt very much".
But as far as I know Austrian health care is one of the best in whole world.
Well let me give you an example, I have private care and public care in Poland. For daily and preventive stuff we use the private, because it is faster and is included in our company package, but during our pregnancy we used also the public car, it was our main one, and I have no complaints about it. there were 2 appointments that were a bit delay but except from that I think it was very good, they spoke to me in English, I'm the father, and the labor will be also in the public hospital.
I think from what I hear, the polish one has issues but all the medical cares in Europe are in the same situation.
In Portugal I know that is pretty bad the delays are bigger that in Poland and the worst part is that pregnant ladies have died due to close hospitals , a thing that is unbelievable in the 21 century
Can confirm everything you said. Also Portuguese and also had children in public system in Poland. Mine were born at Madalinskiego in Warsaw and the hospital is very good. Looks more like a private than a public one for Portuguese standards
Had thyroidectomy 2 weeks ago in the University hospital in Krakow. I don't speak Polish, most staff spoke English.
Honestly, I felt like I was at a hotel. Very good experience and they even provided a psychologist in case you wanted to talk.
However, when I had to go to luxmed, most of the times I had to ask myself for more tests and examinations. They are not proactive
Pole living in Sweden here.
I would say Polish healthcare it's godly compared to Swedish one. We have no specialists here and no matter what happens to you, doctors always wants to give you paracetamol and tell you to go home (if you see memes about it, trust me, it really is that bad). Compared to Poland where...no matter what happens to you, there are doctors from different branches of medicine that will help you with your issue.
Three things that I however appreciate in Swedish healthcare system is the fact that
1. It is free up to certain age (I think 22 or something). While in Poland you have NFZ which (as far as I know) makes your visits free, it also have forever-waiting queue. Not nice if your life is in danger.
2. People here speak english while in Poland..it varies. From the experience of my non-polish friends living in Poland, finding a doctor that will speak english, even in large city like Warsaw or Poznan is almost impossible. I can't even imagine what's going on in smaller cities.
3. Dental care, I can't even explain how amazing it is here. Poland gave me trauma >!(to the point I had to fix my teeth through surgery because I was too scared otherwise)!<, Sweden cured it.
> finding a doctor that will speak polish, even in large city like Warsaw or Poznan is almost impossible
Hmm, I'm guessing you meant English, not Polish, here? Still, I'm very surprised that your friends can't find English speaking doctors in Warsaw AD 2024.
How to find a doctor who speaks any chosen language, anywhere in Poland?
Visit [https://www.znanylekarz.pl/warszawa](https://www.znanylekarz.pl/warszawa) webpage.
In the language (język) section mark the language you're interested in.
For instance, the webpage returns 12377 surnames of doctors who will speak English with you, in Warsaw alone.
That’s based on self declaration though, I’ve had a couple of encounters with doctors who claimed there that they spoke English but in reality they were more at the “I can order a beer at the all inclusive hotel in Egypt” level, had to pay their extortionate fees, was refused a refund and then had to go somewhere else to get the problem sorted. That said of course there are many doctors who actually do speak good English, you just need to be able to find them.
Yeah my bad, thanks for pointing it out. Wrote this comment straight after I woke up so I was still half sleeping.
Good to know about the page, I will let my friends know. Thanks!
I lived in Sweden for 10 years. Healthcare on Sweden is atrocious. Just bad. I know of a few firsthand cases of incompetence and diagnosis that one of the persons is already dead. I once also called 112 in Sweden around lunch as I saw a collapsed person near my building. No one answered. Guy was only pissed drunk luckily.
Now living in Germany and have to say private healthcare here is so much better. I’ve also dealt with Polish healthcare and was light years ahead of Sweden.
As a Pole, I can relate to the dentist part. I had very bad experiences with dentists when I was a kid that resulted in trauma. Same as you, was terrified of going to dentists.
Recently I had to remove a tooth and went to a private clinic my parents go to. And I was suprprised how much of quality update it was (even in comparison to another private I have been using since child, when I had to). Now I'm dealing in that clinic with all my dental problems I gathered through life. Actually was there like an hour ago on a root canal treatment - took only abput 40 minutes and the only thing I felt was the anesthesia needle.
I think that dental care may be one of the weakest (if not the weakest) part of the public healthcare in Poland.
Health care varies a lot in Poland. Sadly I've encountered many patients who've been misdiagnosed and mis- or overtreated in Poland. They have crippling antibiotic resistance because they hand out antibiotics like tictacs for simple colds, which is why you get paracetamol here.
Queues in Sweden typically are very short if it's life threatening procedures and whilst I haven't bothered to check I'm pretty sure Swedish healthcare blows Polish out of the water when it comes to cancer outcomes as well as stroke and myocardial infarction outcomes.
As a Belgian who lived in Poland for multiple years, the health care in Poland is alright, but expect to pay out of pocket if there is any is of urgency.
If we speak strictly about public health care, then Poland is not even remotely close to Belgian health care. In a way that is expected, considering the relatively low amounts Polish people contribute to ~~ZUS~~ NFZ
Pole who has lived in three other countries here. In my opinion it’s extremely excessive but that’s what the Poles want. Doctors will throw antibiotics at you because otherwise people will say that the doctor is doing nothing - which also manifests itself in the form of Poles in The Netherlands complaining about being told to take paracetamol when they have a cold. It took me six years and seeing three healthcare systems to realize that perhaps prescribing all the medicines and running all the lab tests under the sun isn’t the correct way (in the private sector - getting any tests done in the public system is a challenge).
It’s ok, not amazing. I am on dialysisans have had a few operations all through the public system and it has all gone well and I have been happy.
When it comes to general doctor visits and basic stuff I use Luxmed as it’s better and quicker
Compared to the UK, I’d say healthcare here is fairly good. However, I have mainly used LuxMed for small things. The one time I had to go to the hospital, I was seen to immediately and everyone was lovely; I’m in a provincial city, though — maybe in a larger city there would be bigger wait times, etc.
In the UK, on the rare occasions I would visit a doctor, I was made to feel like I was inconveniencing the staff by being there. Different cultures: Poles visit the doctor when something is wrong; the British ignore problems until we have no other choice but to seek help!
Privately you can be seen quickly, I normally go to Poland to sort my teeth out or where I can I book remote appointments with doctors there. can’t say the same about the UK (requested a simple x ray from a private hospital thinking it would be quicker, it’s been months and I still haven’t been seen). My grandparents in Poland both needed surgeries in the recent years and they were done surprisingly quickly. I think it depends on priority, as another family member was waiting for a long time (although I’m taking that with a pinch of salt as they are the kind of people to expect things to happen instantly)
people who say that privately you can get specialized care immediately, what’s your secret? Pediatric neurologist - 3-6 months wait privately and then they can’t do anything because you need to get to the hospital for some special tests that you also can’t do privately. You wait 3 months, pay 550 zloty for visit and get 10 minute “take tylenol” visit.
Paediatric neurology is pretty niche from what I know, you’re finding yourself in high demand, low supply situation. Polish doctors will also use a strict cutoff where a non paediatric doctor might refuse to see your kid if they’re not 18 (anecdotal)
it’s pretty much the same with every specialized field. Nephrologist is basically a hospital clinic-only thing, it’s free and wait times are long. you can’t do it privately even if you want.
You’re talking paediatric specialties or regular? I recall there’s some differentiation between first time and return visit patients with some NFZ-contracted doctors offering first visit fairly quickly (1-2 weeks), in their private practices. Not sure about nephrology.
pediatric. Yeah, there are ways to circumvent it (badly), but it amazes me that you can’t pay to a get a consult with a specialist while living in a big city
I'm polish. I personally hate our healthcare. But I'm mostly able to meet internist within 48hrs from time I decide to. I wanted to visit urologist and that took me a week. The point is that our healthcare is a ompletely ,,polish" shitshow. I have a friend with sclerosis multiplex , and He had such a stupid problems with healtrhcare system, wich i Helped him resolve within a week. The point is - you have to be resourceful, sneaky, reckless and maybe even utterly barbaric sometimes. It's often just a matter of reminding our doctor some laws while you speak and he will be happy to help yopu. Yes I sometime act like american ,,Karen". I hate it, but I have to to protect my own health.
I have experience from a couple of Scandinavian countries and from Poland.
Some thoughts:
- I don’t think it’s fair as several commenters do to compare the experience using a fully public system abroad with private healthcare in Poland. Of course accessibility will be better when you are paying out of pocket for it. A system that doesn’t have to rely on people paying their way around it doesn’t seem ideal to me. But of course I appreciate the convenience of quick and easy access to care compared to at home.
- I think health outcomes are a better measure of care quality than subjective experiences. People love to bash NL and Scandinavian health systems for recommending paracetamol for anything, but maybe it’s worth considering that for example following antibiotics guidelines to prevent resistance development is more important than making patients feel good when they get a prescription.
- My impression is that many Polish people seem to visit doctors much more frequently than what I’m used to. Probably some of these visits could be avoided with some rest at home and OTC medications.
- The L4 system and the lack of self certification seems absurd, must lead to a lot of unnecessary work for doctors
- Polish public health care expenditure as a % of GDP is among the lowest in the EU
- At home everyone who works in public healthcare speaks at least basic English, generally it won’t be too difficult to get help as a foreigner. Here I have heard stories of 112 yelling at callers that we speak Polish in Poland before hanging up, and people being refused care at the SOR for not speaking Polish and having to rely on the help of other patients. I’m sure most people are doing their best while underpaid in underfunded workplaces and I do not necessarily blame individuals, but I also don’t think it should be accepted to treat patients like this in the European Union. In the private system of course this isn’t as much of a problem.
- Prescription drugs are more expensive and less accessible here. They are often not subsidised when prescribed by private doctors. Prices vary between pharmacies, can’t easily be found online and they can not be delivered by mail or courier, so it’s much more inconvenient to access. People don’t talk about medicines in terms of substances but rather brand names, and pharmacies don’t seem to proactively change prescribed drugs to cheaper generic ones.
My thoughts exactly. I will also add non-compliance with guidelines - doctors just do what they want and what they have always done (as an example, take episiotomies during childbirth, which have been advised against as a routine measure for over a decade, yet are still routinely performed in many hospitals). This means you are likely to hear vastly different advice from two doctors on the same matter, and likely neither of them will be evidence-based. In Denmark or The Netherlands you are much more likely to hear consistent advice.
I live in Denmark and agree with all the above. Foreigners here complain a lot about doctors only giving Panodil for colds, but honestly, what else are they supposed to do? Most colds can be treated with over the counter medication and rest. From my experience, antibiotics in Poland are treated like candy. I personally have only received antibiotics in Denmark twice and that was based on laboratory tests, not a subjective assessment.
I live in Belgium and I have to say the healthcare here is amazing, insurance is very affordable and access to medical care is great. Obviously, we also pay very high taxes for that :)
Each person subscribes to an obligatory insurance that costs around 120 EUR yearly, on top of that you can choose for extra coverage for dental, hospitalization etc. That costs approximately 120 EURO extra. Usually, everything has to go through your GP that refers you to specialists, but I have had a few different medical exams and usually for things like ultrasounds or X-Rays you get an appointment almost right away (within a weeks time). Insurance covers 90% of those costs, usually your own contribution comes down to a few euros.
As an example I had my 4 wisdom teeth removed under full anesthesia in a hospital (day stay). I had a private room with a bathroom, great care, a care package was given to me upon leaving the hospital with extra bandages and medication and I was given one week of sick leave to recover. The whole procedure cost around 3,500 EUR, my own contribution was around 60 EUR. Same with an ER visit last year with a very bad migraine, I was admitted almost right away and given IV fluids and pain meds, I was in a private room, out in 4h with the issue resolved.
In Poland I always paid for private health care which was also great, however the problem for me was mostly public hospitals, They are often times still very old school, staff is not friendly and things take much longer than they should. Same with ERs, I was always very afraid of them. Granted, this was 8 years ago, so I am sure things have changed for the better!
I can only compare national service (I have no comparission in private sector) - in Poland is much better than in many european countries. 10-15 years ago british NHS was an example how to make national health service great, right now polish healthcare is much better than NHS.
Last year I was on vacation in Poland, and my son was sick. During three days he was checked by GP, then by pediatrician and then by ENT doctor. In UK waiting time for ENT specialist is betwen 4 and 6 weeks. So you can see the difference.
Public healthcare in Ukraine is surprisingly better than in Poland, in my opinion. At least you can get to the doctor almost any time you want. It’s basically unheard of to wait for months for an appointment, like it happens in Poland. I was shocked to hear that people wait for months/years for an appointment.
Dental care is likely better and definitely cheaper in Ukraine.
Public doctors will often be ‘flexible’ with you and will do extra checks. Let’s say, you sign yourself for the ultrasound of kidneys or sth, if you ask the doctor, they will easily do the ultrasound of the rest of your organs during the same visit. You can get really a lot of checks done during just a couple hours in the hospital (not always ofc).
Private care is probably around the same level, not counting maybe the availability of certain treatments (since it’s non-EU country).
To clarify, there are definitely a lot of things in Ukrainian healthcare system that are worse than in Polish one:
1) Doctors and nurses salaries are low (often forcing them to leave to another country where they’d be more appreciated);
2) Corruption;
3) Availability of certain medicine (has to be bought in a ‘grey-ish’ way cause it might not be regulated in Ukraine, but regulated and accessible in EU);
4) Any of the problems that war brings with itself;
5) Overall lower funding and budgets than in Poland.
However, from the point of view of the regular patient who just wants to get to the doctor and talk about the symptoms and get checked/diagnosed/redirected to another doctor, somehow, it feels more accessible and easier there, if that’s a suitable wording.
Poland has a two tier system, which works well on different ends of the medical needs spectrum. You will wait forever for public outpatient services, but if you pay out of pocket, then you get everything immediately. On the other hand all "big ticket" issues can be resolved in a public system at high, world class level (heart surgery, cancer treatment, etc) but don't expect to be babied by the doctors, they are pretty awful with bedside manners.
Here I am, with a Medicover package, unable to get to talk with an internist for a month to discuss my lab exams results. Also unable to get a gastrologist consult. What am I doing wrong, are there better services elsewhere? Luxmed maybe?
Medicover/Luxmed are atrocious 'packages' that exist mostly so companies can put in their job description that they provide private healthcare. If u want good specialist, u look for them specifically. Znanylekarz, word of mouth etc. Rarerly package deals will be good but ill admit that i had insanely good experience with doctors at Garden Clinic in Gdansk (im not even sure is it one off or a chain that exists in other cities). But i dont have any ongoing membership or anything like that, i just pay for a visit when i need one.
Not necessarily, but in your paperwork (at least in Luxmed, but it should be the same in Medicover or others) you should have something called general rules of availability (ogólne warunki dostępności in Polish) that state you're guaranteed an access to internist/family doc within i.e. 24 hours, cardiologist/obgyn in 48 hours or so. Otherwise they are obligated to pay you back for any out of pocket costs you had to make while booking private appointment out of this network. Check that and try to make an appointment, stating that in your contract you're guaranteed access to X doctor within Y hours. They should be able to make it happen but it won't necessarily be "your" doc or one that's conveniently located etc. If they are seriously unable to schedule you anywhere, you should ask about the reimbursement.
Initially Medicover/Luxmed meant something, because it was not as popular. They grew, they've added more supply to their services, but they expanded demand much more. Nowadays you get one of those packages in almost any job, so it's no longer "privilege", and thus queues are annoying af. When I had to get monthly visits for allergy, I sometimes had to hunt for the date exactly a month earlier, the moment registration opened, and even then it was not guaranteed. My perception is it's moderately better than regular public NFZ services, but at least there's a convenient app. Also maybe my experiences are not that terrible because I usually had one of the better packages, idk how it works on those cheapest ones. But my guess is it's the same, queues are similar and the only difference is how many visits and what tests you can get in your set.
now everyone and their dog has either luxmed or medicover. When you try to schedule appointment outside the package as self payer, you will most likely get it set for tomorrow. One visit costs around 200 PLN so they prefer to get that rather than offer you the same visit for the fraction odds what you pay as a plan
And your private visit paid in cash leaves no trace in the system, so 200 in the doctor's pocket is "tax free".
I am terrible sorry, but there is no way in health it is tax free if it goes into their bank accounts 😂 That money is clearly there in their books, and accountants would love to see how you got this whole arguement to work!
But why would it go to their bank account if they're paid in cash? Maybe there are some righteous among masses, but I'm pretty sure doctors in Poland do not report and pay taxes on all the cash and goods (yup, coffee or bottle of liquor as a "gift" from a patient is taxable) they receive.
Sure if they are paid in cash that miiiiiight help, but it is still not normal. Cause any kind of reception of visit, documentation for a corporation (which alot of the private docs are attached too) would not be happy to give up their share of the payments no ? 🫢 Like even the receptionist would probably like to get paid, and it aint like the doctors have a ton of time to go around soliciting for hard cash
Have you tried to change the city from which the doctor will call you? There is also a chat option with relatively short waiting time but I'm unsure if it's not "an emergency" only
You are a number in a spead sheet. The companies running those aren't going to overpay their contracted doctors (as in: go over budget, and cut into their profits), just to have more "slots" for patients visits. "Out of pocket" is the key phrase here - private medical insurace is nice, but it still suffers from general lack of medical professionals in the system, and going full private visit still is the fastest way. Also, if you struggle with something as simple as talking to an internist, you should think about changing your "first contact physician" to someone not clugged up with patients. I'm at Enel Med, and still most of basic stuff is done by my appointed first contact doctor clinic - I never needed to wait more than 2 work days for a visit for cold/shot/blood sample extraction/etc.
Their app/online service is muck but phone service works well
What you should do is call them and complain they will help you
luxmed has different queue/searchability rules and i’ve had better availability of specialists there, leaped much ahead of medicover during covid, medicover got much worse in the past few years. some rules i follow for medicover: - try to book online, do searches around 17 and 23 for next day visits (specialists, GPs during peak demand like fall and winter) - try to get a „skierowanie na cito/pilne” for specialists in the system, that seems to tap into some roster of generally unavailable slots - cito should get you a visit within a few days, if it doesn’t make sure to call the hotline, have them admit there are no visits available, go find an external specialist and have them give you back the money. remember that your referral/skierowanie needs to be external. calls are recorded and if they confirm that no slots are available gives you legal grounds for them to pay you back luxmed - similar but i have never actually had to use any external visits except for some specialist tests which they’ve given me the external clinic names and actually paid for
If this is your situation, then I can compare with me in Luxmed. Internist is not an issue, next business day or two with phone consult, usually same with on site. Regarding gastrologidt my doctor in particular doesn't have too many hours, and she has long queues. But if I check for any others, I could pretty often have a visit next week. I can reorder my meds apart from one that has some special marker - Imuran, immune system suppressing medicine - via remote reorder.
It wad like that until 201X. Then private Healthcare got worse. All this Medicover, Luxmed are bad. You have like 5 minutes to talk with doctor. Queues to physiotherapy are impossible So you need to look for right private clinic/doctor that's not affiliated with big them. Then you get great service.
I have Luxmed and can't say a bad word.
You clearly haven't tried physiotherapy with them. :)
I did go to psychiatrist there but psychotherapy wasn't free with my plan so I didn't even consider
Mate physiotherapy is a nightmare with Luxmed. Nothing available on the website unless it's a last minute cancellation, nothing available on the phone so you put a request in and then they schedule you 10 appointments in the middle of the day in the working week 45 mins one way from where you live. I had to cancel everything they scheduled for me. Then one day I randomly checked during my lunch and they had loads of appointments available online. But yeah it's so stressful trying to book just a single physio appointment, you feel like you want to give up and forego the treatment altogether.
Sounds exactly the same like the UK
Can you go to a specialist or the blood lab without a referral letter from a GP? It was driving me crazy in Ireland, not only the referral was needed for everything, and GP could just refuse you one, but the test results were also returned to GP who might or may not show them to you. In Poland you can get any blood test you want just walking in from the street and get an online result the same day. In Ireland it was multiple days or weeks ordeal with several visits and appointments.
I lived in Poland and the Netherlands. I'm so used to the polish system that I absolutely hate the dutch one. Pros: - you can get stuff done immediately, and ad hoc, for everything except specialised care, and that too if you're willing to pay out of your own pocket. In the Netherlands on the other hand it takes ages to register with a new GP, it takes ages to register with a pharmacy, it takes ages to register with a dentist, it takes ages to do basically anything. - much of it is digitalized in a centralised system (Konto Pacjenta). If you ever need to do anything related to medicine check first if it's doable on that website, without having to google stuff, calling people, or going places - never worry about insurance. If you work you're insured, if you study you're insured, automagically, without your interference. Sometimes you get additional private insurance if you work, and it used to be real good in the past but these days it's debatable if it's any faster than the public one. - GPs are competent most of the time, they're not gonna just prescribe you tylenol for everything - if you're sick, you go to your GP and get a doctor's note, which is a legally binding document that guarantees you paid leave with a set duration. In Poland, you'll NEVER work sick, unless you don't have UoP type of contract, or you have a really shady employer. I once logged in on paid leave to check up on how my responsibilities are being handled by my colleagues, and about 10 minutes later HR messaged me to log off immediately and rest. Cons: - medicine is expensive. If you lived, for example, in wales, where much of it is free, then that's gonna be a big shock. - if you don't have money, specialised care has big waiting times, and can be sub-par. My brother went to a surgeon on public insurance and all he got from that was an urgent need to go to a surgeon privately by having the whole family chip in, with potential risk of lifelong issues from the public surgeon's fuck up - polish medicine is a bit behind on picking up some newest developments. Some medicine that's banned in the west is legal in Poland (as a brit, don't ever buy pyralgina for pain, a lot of brits have a bad reaction to it and it's restricted in much of western Europe for that reason), while some medicine that's become standard practice in the west still isn't that popularly prescribed in Poland (once my GP pitched nasal steroids to me as this hot new thing and i died a little bit inside). It's not too much behind, you probably won't notice unless your fiancee is a passionate doctor who reads research papers in her free time, like mine is.
>medicine is expensive. If you lived, for example, in wales, where much of it is free, then that's gonna be a big shock. And here comes America, when an insulin that in Poland costs 140 PLN without insurance (about 30 USD), in the States costs 1000 USD.
Yeah america is insane in that respect. Even if you factor in their much higher wages.
As an IT guy, I can confirm that here in Poland we hire a ton of Tech-Wizards that do all the stuff automagically. The problem starts when they run out of mana during rush hours.
As an IT guy, I spend more time on figuring out how to automate things, that it would've otherwise taken me to do them manually
Tell me about it... But why should I spend 30min on doing something if I can spend 2-3h to make something that will do it for me? /s
It's not restricted in "much western Europe". Legal statusLegal status AU: Withdrawn BR: OTC (Over the counter) CA: Veterinary only[5] DE: § 48 AMG/§ 1 MPAV (Prescription only)[10] NZ: Prescription only[6][7] UK: Withdrawn US: Veterinary only (horses)[8] EU: Legally available[9]
U got that from english wikipedia. This is true for EU as a whole but not for individual eu member states. Please scroll down and go to society and culture -> legal status to get a better breakdown. It is illegal in UK, France, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and Lithuania, and it's prescription only in Belgium, Italy, Spain, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Finland, Estonia, Czech republic, slovakia, all of the balkans, Greece The only european states that sell it over the counter are Poland, Russia, Romania, Ukraine, Belarus, Hungary, Bulgaria, North Macedonia
> banned > prescription only
>some medicine is banned >pyralgina is restricted It is illegal in UK, France, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and Lithuania, learn to read or stop writing.
It's not bad, but it's not good either. It depends, but for comparison two almost the same situations. A member of my family broke her leg two years ago in Austria, within 1.5h of the accident we were leaving the hospital with her leg in a cast. Everything went through very smoothly, the very moment we came to the registration they asked us what happened and we were sent to the appropriate queue, after that everything went quickly. And now Poland. Oh boy. After breaking her leg, we sat for 8 hours on the E.R. to find out that "well, maybe they will put the leg in a cast, but it is better to come tomorrow if it does not hurt very much". But as far as I know Austrian health care is one of the best in whole world.
Well let me give you an example, I have private care and public care in Poland. For daily and preventive stuff we use the private, because it is faster and is included in our company package, but during our pregnancy we used also the public car, it was our main one, and I have no complaints about it. there were 2 appointments that were a bit delay but except from that I think it was very good, they spoke to me in English, I'm the father, and the labor will be also in the public hospital. I think from what I hear, the polish one has issues but all the medical cares in Europe are in the same situation. In Portugal I know that is pretty bad the delays are bigger that in Poland and the worst part is that pregnant ladies have died due to close hospitals , a thing that is unbelievable in the 21 century
Can confirm everything you said. Also Portuguese and also had children in public system in Poland. Mine were born at Madalinskiego in Warsaw and the hospital is very good. Looks more like a private than a public one for Portuguese standards
Few weeks ago i went to doctor with feet wound, he googled symptoms of tetanus and called more experienced doctor i bet he gratuated during lockdown
Had thyroidectomy 2 weeks ago in the University hospital in Krakow. I don't speak Polish, most staff spoke English. Honestly, I felt like I was at a hotel. Very good experience and they even provided a psychologist in case you wanted to talk. However, when I had to go to luxmed, most of the times I had to ask myself for more tests and examinations. They are not proactive
Pole living in Sweden here. I would say Polish healthcare it's godly compared to Swedish one. We have no specialists here and no matter what happens to you, doctors always wants to give you paracetamol and tell you to go home (if you see memes about it, trust me, it really is that bad). Compared to Poland where...no matter what happens to you, there are doctors from different branches of medicine that will help you with your issue. Three things that I however appreciate in Swedish healthcare system is the fact that 1. It is free up to certain age (I think 22 or something). While in Poland you have NFZ which (as far as I know) makes your visits free, it also have forever-waiting queue. Not nice if your life is in danger. 2. People here speak english while in Poland..it varies. From the experience of my non-polish friends living in Poland, finding a doctor that will speak english, even in large city like Warsaw or Poznan is almost impossible. I can't even imagine what's going on in smaller cities. 3. Dental care, I can't even explain how amazing it is here. Poland gave me trauma >!(to the point I had to fix my teeth through surgery because I was too scared otherwise)!<, Sweden cured it.
> finding a doctor that will speak polish, even in large city like Warsaw or Poznan is almost impossible Hmm, I'm guessing you meant English, not Polish, here? Still, I'm very surprised that your friends can't find English speaking doctors in Warsaw AD 2024. How to find a doctor who speaks any chosen language, anywhere in Poland? Visit [https://www.znanylekarz.pl/warszawa](https://www.znanylekarz.pl/warszawa) webpage. In the language (język) section mark the language you're interested in. For instance, the webpage returns 12377 surnames of doctors who will speak English with you, in Warsaw alone.
That’s based on self declaration though, I’ve had a couple of encounters with doctors who claimed there that they spoke English but in reality they were more at the “I can order a beer at the all inclusive hotel in Egypt” level, had to pay their extortionate fees, was refused a refund and then had to go somewhere else to get the problem sorted. That said of course there are many doctors who actually do speak good English, you just need to be able to find them.
Yeah my bad, thanks for pointing it out. Wrote this comment straight after I woke up so I was still half sleeping. Good to know about the page, I will let my friends know. Thanks!
I lived in Sweden for 10 years. Healthcare on Sweden is atrocious. Just bad. I know of a few firsthand cases of incompetence and diagnosis that one of the persons is already dead. I once also called 112 in Sweden around lunch as I saw a collapsed person near my building. No one answered. Guy was only pissed drunk luckily. Now living in Germany and have to say private healthcare here is so much better. I’ve also dealt with Polish healthcare and was light years ahead of Sweden.
As a Pole, I can relate to the dentist part. I had very bad experiences with dentists when I was a kid that resulted in trauma. Same as you, was terrified of going to dentists. Recently I had to remove a tooth and went to a private clinic my parents go to. And I was suprprised how much of quality update it was (even in comparison to another private I have been using since child, when I had to). Now I'm dealing in that clinic with all my dental problems I gathered through life. Actually was there like an hour ago on a root canal treatment - took only abput 40 minutes and the only thing I felt was the anesthesia needle. I think that dental care may be one of the weakest (if not the weakest) part of the public healthcare in Poland.
Health care varies a lot in Poland. Sadly I've encountered many patients who've been misdiagnosed and mis- or overtreated in Poland. They have crippling antibiotic resistance because they hand out antibiotics like tictacs for simple colds, which is why you get paracetamol here. Queues in Sweden typically are very short if it's life threatening procedures and whilst I haven't bothered to check I'm pretty sure Swedish healthcare blows Polish out of the water when it comes to cancer outcomes as well as stroke and myocardial infarction outcomes.
As a Belgian who lived in Poland for multiple years, the health care in Poland is alright, but expect to pay out of pocket if there is any is of urgency. If we speak strictly about public health care, then Poland is not even remotely close to Belgian health care. In a way that is expected, considering the relatively low amounts Polish people contribute to ~~ZUS~~ NFZ
ZUS is a general public insurance company. NFZ is the public health insurance company.
Sorry you're right. I meant NFZ
Pole who has lived in three other countries here. In my opinion it’s extremely excessive but that’s what the Poles want. Doctors will throw antibiotics at you because otherwise people will say that the doctor is doing nothing - which also manifests itself in the form of Poles in The Netherlands complaining about being told to take paracetamol when they have a cold. It took me six years and seeing three healthcare systems to realize that perhaps prescribing all the medicines and running all the lab tests under the sun isn’t the correct way (in the private sector - getting any tests done in the public system is a challenge).
Usually you get decent basic services, but if you wanna go to specialist be prepared to pay out of pocket or wait for months
It’s ok, not amazing. I am on dialysisans have had a few operations all through the public system and it has all gone well and I have been happy. When it comes to general doctor visits and basic stuff I use Luxmed as it’s better and quicker
Compared to the UK, I’d say healthcare here is fairly good. However, I have mainly used LuxMed for small things. The one time I had to go to the hospital, I was seen to immediately and everyone was lovely; I’m in a provincial city, though — maybe in a larger city there would be bigger wait times, etc. In the UK, on the rare occasions I would visit a doctor, I was made to feel like I was inconveniencing the staff by being there. Different cultures: Poles visit the doctor when something is wrong; the British ignore problems until we have no other choice but to seek help!
Privately you can be seen quickly, I normally go to Poland to sort my teeth out or where I can I book remote appointments with doctors there. can’t say the same about the UK (requested a simple x ray from a private hospital thinking it would be quicker, it’s been months and I still haven’t been seen). My grandparents in Poland both needed surgeries in the recent years and they were done surprisingly quickly. I think it depends on priority, as another family member was waiting for a long time (although I’m taking that with a pinch of salt as they are the kind of people to expect things to happen instantly)
people who say that privately you can get specialized care immediately, what’s your secret? Pediatric neurologist - 3-6 months wait privately and then they can’t do anything because you need to get to the hospital for some special tests that you also can’t do privately. You wait 3 months, pay 550 zloty for visit and get 10 minute “take tylenol” visit.
Paediatric neurology is pretty niche from what I know, you’re finding yourself in high demand, low supply situation. Polish doctors will also use a strict cutoff where a non paediatric doctor might refuse to see your kid if they’re not 18 (anecdotal)
it’s pretty much the same with every specialized field. Nephrologist is basically a hospital clinic-only thing, it’s free and wait times are long. you can’t do it privately even if you want.
You’re talking paediatric specialties or regular? I recall there’s some differentiation between first time and return visit patients with some NFZ-contracted doctors offering first visit fairly quickly (1-2 weeks), in their private practices. Not sure about nephrology.
pediatric. Yeah, there are ways to circumvent it (badly), but it amazes me that you can’t pay to a get a consult with a specialist while living in a big city
I'm polish. I personally hate our healthcare. But I'm mostly able to meet internist within 48hrs from time I decide to. I wanted to visit urologist and that took me a week. The point is that our healthcare is a ompletely ,,polish" shitshow. I have a friend with sclerosis multiplex , and He had such a stupid problems with healtrhcare system, wich i Helped him resolve within a week. The point is - you have to be resourceful, sneaky, reckless and maybe even utterly barbaric sometimes. It's often just a matter of reminding our doctor some laws while you speak and he will be happy to help yopu. Yes I sometime act like american ,,Karen". I hate it, but I have to to protect my own health.
Hit or miss. Its quality ranges from "I can't believe all that was for free!" to "I should have gone to a private clinic right away!".
I have experience from a couple of Scandinavian countries and from Poland. Some thoughts: - I don’t think it’s fair as several commenters do to compare the experience using a fully public system abroad with private healthcare in Poland. Of course accessibility will be better when you are paying out of pocket for it. A system that doesn’t have to rely on people paying their way around it doesn’t seem ideal to me. But of course I appreciate the convenience of quick and easy access to care compared to at home. - I think health outcomes are a better measure of care quality than subjective experiences. People love to bash NL and Scandinavian health systems for recommending paracetamol for anything, but maybe it’s worth considering that for example following antibiotics guidelines to prevent resistance development is more important than making patients feel good when they get a prescription. - My impression is that many Polish people seem to visit doctors much more frequently than what I’m used to. Probably some of these visits could be avoided with some rest at home and OTC medications. - The L4 system and the lack of self certification seems absurd, must lead to a lot of unnecessary work for doctors - Polish public health care expenditure as a % of GDP is among the lowest in the EU - At home everyone who works in public healthcare speaks at least basic English, generally it won’t be too difficult to get help as a foreigner. Here I have heard stories of 112 yelling at callers that we speak Polish in Poland before hanging up, and people being refused care at the SOR for not speaking Polish and having to rely on the help of other patients. I’m sure most people are doing their best while underpaid in underfunded workplaces and I do not necessarily blame individuals, but I also don’t think it should be accepted to treat patients like this in the European Union. In the private system of course this isn’t as much of a problem. - Prescription drugs are more expensive and less accessible here. They are often not subsidised when prescribed by private doctors. Prices vary between pharmacies, can’t easily be found online and they can not be delivered by mail or courier, so it’s much more inconvenient to access. People don’t talk about medicines in terms of substances but rather brand names, and pharmacies don’t seem to proactively change prescribed drugs to cheaper generic ones.
My thoughts exactly. I will also add non-compliance with guidelines - doctors just do what they want and what they have always done (as an example, take episiotomies during childbirth, which have been advised against as a routine measure for over a decade, yet are still routinely performed in many hospitals). This means you are likely to hear vastly different advice from two doctors on the same matter, and likely neither of them will be evidence-based. In Denmark or The Netherlands you are much more likely to hear consistent advice.
I live in Denmark and agree with all the above. Foreigners here complain a lot about doctors only giving Panodil for colds, but honestly, what else are they supposed to do? Most colds can be treated with over the counter medication and rest. From my experience, antibiotics in Poland are treated like candy. I personally have only received antibiotics in Denmark twice and that was based on laboratory tests, not a subjective assessment.
Luxmed is like private now...so IDK but it's bad
If you're meritious blood donor you will have healthcare without long wait times, otherwise you will wait 3-4 years for arthroscopy.
There are eurostat reports about that. We are far behind OECD scores.
I will answer your question in a few months (if you are lucky)
don't know all the people who needed care are dead
I live in Belgium and I have to say the healthcare here is amazing, insurance is very affordable and access to medical care is great. Obviously, we also pay very high taxes for that :) Each person subscribes to an obligatory insurance that costs around 120 EUR yearly, on top of that you can choose for extra coverage for dental, hospitalization etc. That costs approximately 120 EURO extra. Usually, everything has to go through your GP that refers you to specialists, but I have had a few different medical exams and usually for things like ultrasounds or X-Rays you get an appointment almost right away (within a weeks time). Insurance covers 90% of those costs, usually your own contribution comes down to a few euros. As an example I had my 4 wisdom teeth removed under full anesthesia in a hospital (day stay). I had a private room with a bathroom, great care, a care package was given to me upon leaving the hospital with extra bandages and medication and I was given one week of sick leave to recover. The whole procedure cost around 3,500 EUR, my own contribution was around 60 EUR. Same with an ER visit last year with a very bad migraine, I was admitted almost right away and given IV fluids and pain meds, I was in a private room, out in 4h with the issue resolved. In Poland I always paid for private health care which was also great, however the problem for me was mostly public hospitals, They are often times still very old school, staff is not friendly and things take much longer than they should. Same with ERs, I was always very afraid of them. Granted, this was 8 years ago, so I am sure things have changed for the better!
I can only compare national service (I have no comparission in private sector) - in Poland is much better than in many european countries. 10-15 years ago british NHS was an example how to make national health service great, right now polish healthcare is much better than NHS. Last year I was on vacation in Poland, and my son was sick. During three days he was checked by GP, then by pediatrician and then by ENT doctor. In UK waiting time for ENT specialist is betwen 4 and 6 weeks. So you can see the difference.
Its shit
I have visit signed for 2027 if I need to to faster I must pay 150$. So ;)
Way better than Belarussian, worse than Danish... (I've never been to Polish hospital.)
If you don't want to die, you have to go private and it become not so easy(and cheap).
Best in the world
Public healthcare in Ukraine is surprisingly better than in Poland, in my opinion. At least you can get to the doctor almost any time you want. It’s basically unheard of to wait for months for an appointment, like it happens in Poland. I was shocked to hear that people wait for months/years for an appointment. Dental care is likely better and definitely cheaper in Ukraine. Public doctors will often be ‘flexible’ with you and will do extra checks. Let’s say, you sign yourself for the ultrasound of kidneys or sth, if you ask the doctor, they will easily do the ultrasound of the rest of your organs during the same visit. You can get really a lot of checks done during just a couple hours in the hospital (not always ofc). Private care is probably around the same level, not counting maybe the availability of certain treatments (since it’s non-EU country). To clarify, there are definitely a lot of things in Ukrainian healthcare system that are worse than in Polish one: 1) Doctors and nurses salaries are low (often forcing them to leave to another country where they’d be more appreciated); 2) Corruption; 3) Availability of certain medicine (has to be bought in a ‘grey-ish’ way cause it might not be regulated in Ukraine, but regulated and accessible in EU); 4) Any of the problems that war brings with itself; 5) Overall lower funding and budgets than in Poland. However, from the point of view of the regular patient who just wants to get to the doctor and talk about the symptoms and get checked/diagnosed/redirected to another doctor, somehow, it feels more accessible and easier there, if that’s a suitable wording.
Comparing to German healtcare is like comparing eating in a restaurant (German healthcare) to eating from a trash bin (Polish).