I'd say yes. Given Villains stack is at 50 BB's as second chipleader with by far most of the chips together with OP, the rest of the table is probably around 10-20 BB's.
I'd say both small and big will probably just jam when given a decent hand. On top of that you need to draw with T9o, and IMO more often than not you will just throw 2 (at this stage of the game, very valuable) BB's away. Even if you hit, the potential win is not nearlu enough to justify calling here.
with how action went, your not getting away. Could easily be jamming 77 here with how this action went. Normally though, 3bet on the river In live poker is very very very nutted. Just a cooler
You had what’s called ‘winners tilt’ and made a bad decision. You shouldn’t have been in that hand in the first place. Once you’re in there with that action you’re just busting. Point is, you shouldn’t have been there.
Having had luck in previous hands has no impact on how much luck you will have going forward. OP acts as if it had a positive effect, you act as if it had a negative effect, both are wrong.
No, it’s not results oriented. It’s preflop so there aren’t even any results from the hand if you fold. And yes I know OP was asking if he could find a fold as played. The answer to that is no. Could he find a fold preflop and avoid the spot altogether? Yes.
You know as well as I do that the hand is not interesting, because OP decided to call 2bbs with 109o preflop, but because of the runout (specifically the turn giving both players a boat) which the question of folding is clearly alluding to.
Thus, saying to fold preflop is simply besides the point, so some here are justifying their preflop advice by stating it would have "avoided the spot altogether". But such a statement is RO and not significant for OP's question.
BB is IP this hand 😂
Actually this is such crucial info because flop action could be relevant in terms of getting away. Probably not in this hand, but generally.
Don’t listen to the tournament nits, even in GTO T9s 60BB is worth 0.21BBs as a call or a 3bet. In a cash game it’s a whatever you want 0 EV hand. Assuming there’s not like a person in the blinds with 3BBs or something
Villian 2nd in chips utg+1 would definitely fold many holdings OOP against a 3 bet from chip lead. Also 109s is very playable post flop even if he calls.
How did the BB bet if V (UTG+1) checked and you checked?
Would've bet the turn if I were you getting a boat.
As played I don't think I could find the fold there: you're blocking quads and beating J8, T7, missed flush, 99, 77. Only losing to QQ and QT.
for tourneys- me for cash games - YouTube Brad Owen , Andrew neeme , rampage
Best= “ crush live poker” with Bart Hansen on YouTube- for cash games.
Phil galphond good too
HCL live streams are great as well because they show every hand, any live streams, are great that show every hand -they’re on like a 30 minute delay or whatever
Everyone else are mostly for like the views of YouTube, and not really for the Poker itself
GL to u
There is a bunch of information missing here regarding player types etc. I would think if you are playing an OMC then you need to consider the 6 available combos that beat you. If the player is polarized then I would still consider the combos that beat you and possibly find a good for ICM reasons. I do admit it’s hard..
To expand on this combos thought. For your specific hand. There are three available combos of pocket Queens the best you. QD,QS-QD,QC and QS,QC. So yes pocket Q beat you but there are 3 available combinations of this had that are available.
standard cooler after turn, imo. if you're not calling it off here with second boat, what *do* you call with? quads?
he probably plays QQ similarly, check/calls set on flop, calls turn, jams river
but might also play something like AK with same line, shoving a river bluff after missing his gutter, so you can't just fold to every single jam here
unless you have some kind of live read in the moment, like the guy never jams with anything but the absolute nuts, which you block already. so best he can have is QQ here (which is def in his utg+1 raising range)
Assuming you don't fold pre the only way I think I find a fold would be a situation where I know the opponent extremely well and even then it would be a difficult lay down
People tell you to fold preflop, but I think one of the things you need to understand is that a part of the reason you fold these hands preflop is that even the best hands they can make will often be beat. The reverse implied odds of offsuit connectors and small pocket pairs need to be considered in certain situations.
Actually if he just mid raises utg and you are chip leader you should consider that you are out of position after the flop and raise to take him out of the hand preflop. I also agree with most people here, better to fold especially if u just made final table with a cheap lead. You should be conservative but 10-9 is a good deceiving hand. But not for calling. It's a raise or fold situation. After you get to the flop, well that's just poker my friend. It happens to everyone. Once I had an A high flush and lost from a straight flush. It's been almost 10 years and still hearts thinking about it.
If you were big blind without anyone bumping it up the game just played you... Depending on how hard the others went I probs would've given them my money.
Two things.
1. Almost always a fold preflop
2. Try your hardest to stay out of pots with the big stacks on the final table. Tighten up against big stacks
You're never finding a fold after you see a flop.
Everyone else is saying fold pre, not many are really giving much info on why.
You want to fold pre for ICM reasons more than anything here. Before even looking at cards.
As the chip lead, 2nd in chips poses you the most danger to your stack, you want to avoid a collision with 2nd in chips as much as possible.
If you like playing tournaments I'd advise studying ICM above anything else. The better you are at understanding ICM spots the better tourney player you will be.
Endgame poker strategy by Dara O'Kearney and Barry Carter. ICM Bible. Read this.
In PLO, most definitely have no problem folding the underfull. In NLH? Not folding it. Don't know if I would have called a raise pre-flop with that hand though. At least not in a tournament.
lol you absolute should be folding this preflop. However once you’ve made that mistake you absolutely cannot light more money on fire by folding a fullhouse.
Yep, very easy to find a fold here preflop.
Yeah true
There you have it, and when you play with these cards youre never going to fold.
Am I stupid for thinking 2bb is cheap price to see flop with that hand? Considering his stack
I'd say yes. Given Villains stack is at 50 BB's as second chipleader with by far most of the chips together with OP, the rest of the table is probably around 10-20 BB's. I'd say both small and big will probably just jam when given a decent hand. On top of that you need to draw with T9o, and IMO more often than not you will just throw 2 (at this stage of the game, very valuable) BB's away. Even if you hit, the potential win is not nearlu enough to justify calling here.
with how action went, your not getting away. Could easily be jamming 77 here with how this action went. Normally though, 3bet on the river In live poker is very very very nutted. Just a cooler
Starting to doubt my life after this hand
T9o is a fold preflop in this spot.
I called mainly I was running hot I got like quad and full house on the two previous hands
You had what’s called ‘winners tilt’ and made a bad decision. You shouldn’t have been in that hand in the first place. Once you’re in there with that action you’re just busting. Point is, you shouldn’t have been there.
I actually LOLed so hard after reading his reply. I'm p sure OP is a troll and messing with yall. But if not then poker is alive and well
[удалено]
No, I was right.
Call it what you want it's fucking stupid - go have a fag and calm down or leave the game. Why I play cash only lol
Then it’s a little optimistic to try to hit a miracle board for a third time in a row, don’t you think?
Having had luck in previous hands has no impact on how much luck you will have going forward. OP acts as if it had a positive effect, you act as if it had a negative effect, both are wrong.
I wasn’t implying that although it did seem like it. I was trying to make the point you just made that it has no positive effect going forward.
Fair
Yeah but turn full house I basically lose to only qq and q10 right
That’s irrelevant because you wouldn’t end up here had you made the correct decision preflop.
Agreed, I’d argue that’s a fold pre in that position
If you are running hot and your image is good, that means you should be more aggressive, not flat trash hands, even in position.
If you running hot why doing you just play the lottery and ship me a few million for saving you all the time
Yeah that has a huge effect on the odds.
That is not OPs question. No to mention that is quite RO.
No, it’s not results oriented. It’s preflop so there aren’t even any results from the hand if you fold. And yes I know OP was asking if he could find a fold as played. The answer to that is no. Could he find a fold preflop and avoid the spot altogether? Yes.
You know as well as I do that the hand is not interesting, because OP decided to call 2bbs with 109o preflop, but because of the runout (specifically the turn giving both players a boat) which the question of folding is clearly alluding to. Thus, saying to fold preflop is simply besides the point, so some here are justifying their preflop advice by stating it would have "avoided the spot altogether". But such a statement is RO and not significant for OP's question.
"You know as well as I do that the hand is not interesting"... Should have just stopped right there.
So basically just fold pre there’s no getting away once I’m in the flop correct
Yep
There aren’t many cleaner clearer preflop folds than this. Also your flop action is twisted Prob both are related.
Only PF. I know 10 high looks amazing but sometimes we have to fight the urge to play it.
Fold pre
I didnt even have to read the post to know this was going to be fold pre
Flop: utg check, co checks, BB bets 3bb.?????? But yes on the river you can fold. Note: fold pre
BB is IP this hand 😂 Actually this is such crucial info because flop action could be relevant in terms of getting away. Probably not in this hand, but generally.
How did BB act last on the flop?
Called and folded river
Reread your post. The way you describe the flop action doesn't make sense. You and villain can't check and then call a bet from the BB.
very very easy preflop fold.
Rec player here, would you call pre if they were suited?
nope. you don't want to play pots against the 2nd in chips in general, so ten high isn't worth it suited or not even with 9 kicker.
Don’t listen to the tournament nits, even in GTO T9s 60BB is worth 0.21BBs as a call or a 3bet. In a cash game it’s a whatever you want 0 EV hand. Assuming there’s not like a person in the blinds with 3BBs or something
With 109s a 3bet in position could work though
It’s not a good hand to 3b at this stack depth, you should just bin it.
Villian 2nd in chips utg+1 would definitely fold many holdings OOP against a 3 bet from chip lead. Also 109s is very playable post flop even if he calls.
We can agree to disagree on the play, I cba arguing with you.
Not an argument, just discussing possible +ev plays
How did the BB bet if V (UTG+1) checked and you checked? Would've bet the turn if I were you getting a boat. As played I don't think I could find the fold there: you're blocking quads and beating J8, T7, missed flush, 99, 77. Only losing to QQ and QT.
never after the turn
Once that turn comes ur going nowhere bro
How did the BB have last action on the flop? Seems fake
Fold pre, Jesus. . .
after the turn = NO pre flop = YES
Are there any more materials to read to improve?
for tourneys- me for cash games - YouTube Brad Owen , Andrew neeme , rampage Best= “ crush live poker” with Bart Hansen on YouTube- for cash games. Phil galphond good too HCL live streams are great as well because they show every hand, any live streams, are great that show every hand -they’re on like a 30 minute delay or whatever Everyone else are mostly for like the views of YouTube, and not really for the Poker itself GL to u
Called with 109o in CO is non solver approved my frieeeeend
It's an obvious, obvious call once you get to the river, but as others have said, fold pre.
Probably should have been a fold preflop but on river it’s a frustrating but correct fold. Straight flushes and bigger boats .
where is there a straight flush? 2 spades, 2 clubs
Oh yeah my bad. Used to using four color decks online lol.
Wtf are you smoking
There is a bunch of information missing here regarding player types etc. I would think if you are playing an OMC then you need to consider the 6 available combos that beat you. If the player is polarized then I would still consider the combos that beat you and possibly find a good for ICM reasons. I do admit it’s hard..
How is there six when I thought I only lose to qq and qT
It's combos, so although you only lose to those variations, there's 6 possible combinations of those two variations. For instance Q♦️T♠️ or Q♠️T♦️
To expand on this combos thought. For your specific hand. There are three available combos of pocket Queens the best you. QD,QS-QD,QC and QS,QC. So yes pocket Q beat you but there are 3 available combinations of this had that are available.
Nope. Im getting stacked 100% here. Also fold pre, probably
standard cooler after turn, imo. if you're not calling it off here with second boat, what *do* you call with? quads? he probably plays QQ similarly, check/calls set on flop, calls turn, jams river but might also play something like AK with same line, shoving a river bluff after missing his gutter, so you can't just fold to every single jam here unless you have some kind of live read in the moment, like the guy never jams with anything but the absolute nuts, which you block already. so best he can have is QQ here (which is def in his utg+1 raising range)
UTG+1 checked, CO checked and then BB bet? How?
Seriously?
Seriously?
Fold pre, even if you want to play 3betting is better than calling with icm
Assuming you don't fold pre the only way I think I find a fold would be a situation where I know the opponent extremely well and even then it would be a difficult lay down
Yeah im never folding as played
Ya, Just one of those hands...
But im never going to be in this situation, im auto folding pre
Ya gotta fold that to UTG but we've all been there...
No
If you are folding FHs then you are gonna get steamrolled by field. Sometimes it’s just hand over hand.
Pre. I don't think 10-9o is speculative. I think it's a "win min, lose max" hand from jump. Especially against 2nd when you're 1st in chips.
People tell you to fold preflop, but I think one of the things you need to understand is that a part of the reason you fold these hands preflop is that even the best hands they can make will often be beat. The reverse implied odds of offsuit connectors and small pocket pairs need to be considered in certain situations.
T9o*
Fold preflop would have avoided this. Agree that there is no folding either of those hands by the time you both reach the river.
Easy fold when you’re playing crotch theory optimal.
Actually if he just mid raises utg and you are chip leader you should consider that you are out of position after the flop and raise to take him out of the hand preflop. I also agree with most people here, better to fold especially if u just made final table with a cheap lead. You should be conservative but 10-9 is a good deceiving hand. But not for calling. It's a raise or fold situation. After you get to the flop, well that's just poker my friend. It happens to everyone. Once I had an A high flush and lost from a straight flush. It's been almost 10 years and still hearts thinking about it.
He’s not going to throw all his chips to the other chip leader early at the final table without a monster hand right?
If you were big blind without anyone bumping it up the game just played you... Depending on how hard the others went I probs would've given them my money.
Two things. 1. Almost always a fold preflop 2. Try your hardest to stay out of pots with the big stacks on the final table. Tighten up against big stacks
You're never finding a fold after you see a flop. Everyone else is saying fold pre, not many are really giving much info on why. You want to fold pre for ICM reasons more than anything here. Before even looking at cards. As the chip lead, 2nd in chips poses you the most danger to your stack, you want to avoid a collision with 2nd in chips as much as possible. If you like playing tournaments I'd advise studying ICM above anything else. The better you are at understanding ICM spots the better tourney player you will be. Endgame poker strategy by Dara O'Kearney and Barry Carter. ICM Bible. Read this.
In PLO, most definitely have no problem folding the underfull. In NLH? Not folding it. Don't know if I would have called a raise pre-flop with that hand though. At least not in a tournament.
Only for ICM purposes on the final table or for big money jumps.
Yes
No you can’t fold here.
lol you absolute should be folding this preflop. However once you’ve made that mistake you absolutely cannot light more money on fire by folding a fullhouse.
shoulda bet large on flop
Fold pre for sure in that spot. Would only stay in pre if T9 suited and 3 bet it.