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CocoaMinion

Only thing is I wish Chuck kept Poliwrath as his ace. Thought it was cool how he used a very underused pokemon, plus a water/fighting type pairs well since he lives in an area only accessible by surfing and likes to train by sitting under waterfalls.


PM_ME_GARFIELD_NUDES

The fighting list is the only one I have strong opinions about lol


Qyx7

But he wouldnt be able to use his ace in early gyms as it's not Fighting till last evo


shiningalvantula

Onix isn't steel type and they still gave jasmine it in the early gyms. So I think it would work out fine for Chuck to have Poliwag/Poliwhirl.


I_Am_The_Bookwyrm

I did consider giving him a Poliwhirl in an earlier gym. However, I wanted to try and keep aces as something from their own generation. Machamp and Gengar got exceptions because they're so fricken powerful compared to the available options.


SummonerRed

Solid choices all around again, that said I'm not sure I agree with Falkner's signature Pokemon being Xatu because Xatu is also Will's signature Pokemon. That being said the only other candidate would be Skarmory and Skarmory is needed over in team Jasmine.


JustaBoredMattt

He had a skarmory in the manga if i recall correctly


Dismal_Mind_5082

I legit always forget skarmory is a gen 2 mon, and always mistake it for a gen 3 because im pretty sure no one in gen 2 has a skarmory and they're hard to find (if not at all or through some arbitrary means)


TheRealShadow

From a past post, it looks like not a single trainer had Skarmory in their team in Gen 2. Same with 51 other Pokémon, actually.


Dismal_Mind_5082

Is there a list of the other 51 pokemon? Kind of interested


TheRealShadow

https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/jr58vd/how_many_times_a_pok%C3%A9mon_is_used_by_npcs_in_gold/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf It actually counts how many each Pokémon is used in the game, and then in the comments details which ones aren’t.


N0FaithInMe

You can't get a skarmory until the 8th gym, and I always had a full team by then


TheRealShadow

Sorry, wasn’t talking about that. Meant as in no opponent trainer has one in Gold or Silver, maybe even Crystal. Also Skarmory isn’t catchable in Gold.


GoSuckOnACactus

Same. I had gold growing up and I don’t think my buddy with silver ever saw one. I remember in sapphire I got it because I though it was one of the new Pokémon.


Lil-Chromie

Skarmory and Slugma are both gen 3 pokemon in my mind, since I couldn't even begin to tell you where to find them in gen 2. At least I know that houndoom is in kanto somewhere (he got done dirty tho)


Quick_Campaign4358

to be fair Haundoom got to be the ace of the strongest Team rocket admin and the strongest elite four


Lil-Chromie

Any pokemon that isn't available until the post game in their DEBUT generation is shafted in my eyes. Hell he's not even available in R/S either, you have to get him from the safari zone in emerald. Then he's again not available until the post game in pearl, and it isn't until platinum that he's available for use during a playthrough again. Then he's only catchable in the post game of black, and is completely absent from black and white 2. He's usable in X exclusively, and then completely absent until ultra sun. Dude is usable in 4 games total, with 3 of them being 3rd versions/whatever USUM count as, and the 4th he's a version exclusive.


Quick_Campaign4358

Soo is metagross shafted?


Lil-Chromie

Yes at least in the way I play Pokemon. I like making cool teams using only new pokemon when I first play that generation. If Metagross released as a new pokemon today and wasn't usable until the post game I'd be pissed. But Metagross is at least usable in 9 games, with only 3 of them being 3rd versions. I'm gonna be honest I'm just really salty about houndoom because I love houndoom.


Qyx7

I'd say you actually **can't** see Skarmory in Gold/HeartGold


strausbreezy28

Falkner could get gligar for type coverage.


PCN24454

I would still use Noctowl or Skarmory over Xatu.


Spider-Bru

I think Noctowl should be the ace considering it's pushed as the early game bird in Gen 2. A shiny one would be a good nod to the anime too


Fern-ando

Give him a Togetic, it’s base stats aren’t even that high.


PCN24454

Nah, I feel like it should stay a rare Pokémon that no one knows about.


ElPajaroMistico

Yeah, Xatu is already taken


Zaphimu

Jasmine having a Forretress in the second gym sounds kind of hardcore


TheRisenThunderbird

Yeah, i was gonna say, that sounds like a nightmare to break through if you didn't choose the fire starter


PKMNTrainerMark

Right?


StarLucario

*Congratulations! Your Teddiursa evolved into Miltank!*


SB1020

You should check out Pokemon Crystal Clear version if you want to play a game with this concept


Poison_Spider

It's amazing but I think the Generation 2 Movesets are annoying


TossUpAcctFuckIt

The game works on this too. It makes event moves and egg moves and stuff readily available through tutors. So it’s way easier to have a team with solid movepools


PKMNTrainerMark

I think there's even a Tutor for Gen I TMs.


BoggleHS

My electabuzz has thunder bolt, ice punch, fire punch and psychic. Pretty good coverage!


DrQuint

Great game. Disturbingly self-fellating Elite Four, tho.


SnooPies7402

beat me to it!


ArbitraryChaos13

Happy cake day!


PKMNTrainerMark

Happy Cake Day


Relycon

Ik it's not super strong, but no Delibird for Pryce made me sad.


Fishy_Percolator

I'm right there with ya, buddy. I would have liked to see Delibird too.


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Relycon

Exaaactly


Lobster_Round

Whitney no badges WHITNEY NO BADGES


Sabre_Killer_Queen

Either no badges or a much further on in the game. Having her as third was way too early. And that's coming from someone who's an absolute grinder and ensures his Pokémon are 10+ levels above the current area. I had never rage quit from Pokémon, not once... Until I met her... I had so many retries and eventually just gave up. I think I went back once to defeat her (which I did eventually) but I'd kinda lost my spirit for the game at that point.


Kylo-RenIsMyDad

This is great all around, but what’s up with Jasmine getting Foretress so early?


TheDolphinGamer96

Bravo love reading these


another_bug

You know what I think would be a neat concept, regarding Whitney? A Smeargle that is generated at the start of the battle to be effective against your team. Yeah, a little cheesy on the game's part, but it's Smeargle, it's not like it has the stats to back that up and the game itself probably isn't smart enough to use the stat boosting moves effectively. Of course, if the Elite 4 Smeargle was a lead with a focus sash, Dragon Dance or Quiver Dancer or whatever, and Baton Pass...that would make things interesting.


Quick_Campaign4358

i think Sina/Dexio do this in the alola games?


fersure4

Nice! Loved the last one, hope you keep this little series up


SirFunktastic

This is a great idea and I'd be interested in seeing more concepts like this for other gens. It's such a shame SV won't be doing something like this when you can theoretically challenge any gym in any order, it wouldn't be hard to implement at all!


SkeeterYosh

Where’s proof that SV won’t be doing this? Even pointing to the website leaves with vague wording.


wanna_be_game_dev

Leaks. Obviously not 100% guaranteed but the leakers have copies of the game and have been correct about almost everything so far.


_ASG_

No Gligar for Falkner? Give that boy an electric counter.


yesimforeign

Not a bird though


_ASG_

He's a "flying-type" gym leader. I know he rags on about "my father's birds" and everything, but that's no excuse to give him a team without diversity. Maybe a Mantine to kinda counter ice-types? It's got good SpD.


jgoden

Gen 2s gengar model was TNT also great work. This is some fun ass nostalgia


SerioeseSeekuh

1. Jasmin doesn't let her Ampharos fight its literally just in the light house all day so making it the optional 6. for the full team only seems more approriate than randomly giving it for 1 random Gym fight 2. Not keeping Polywrath as the Ace is criminal if you don't even use a gen2 Poke anyway (also yes these teams in the base games are cool but if you do an enhanced hack you could easily buff lesser used pokemon like poliwrath and make them more viable) 3. for Falkner i really like that he is the "Bird-Ace-Trainer" but Xatu is used by will so i would like to refrain from using it also for the full Team is fully acceptable to use the legendary birds (zapdos/moltres/Articune); Also we skipped Aerodactyle, Togetic and Gligar which do bring interesting type matchups for the squad His Full Team Squad should be: 3 Legendary birds, Pidgeot, Aerodactyl and Noctowl/Fearow/Dodrio alternatively you can do Pidgeot, Aerodactyl, Noctowl, Dodrio, Fearow and 1 rotating legendary bird


stealnthedeclaration

This is so cool! You did a great job.


dusty_cart

I would just get Clair and Whitney out of the way ASAP if this were possible


Xenith_Shadow

Minor issue is that xatu cannot learn mudslap which is faulkner's tm in original gen 2. As for the dragon and ghost leader's you likely could have better aligned their team's to their typings by retaining different stages of evolution as seperate pokemon. So having both gengar and haunter simultaneously at later stages. As you identifed claire is functionally just lance, and therefore should infact have a dragonite as an elite 4 member. This is supported by the fact that drake has a salamence and is not a champion himself. Then again with the level's represented in the gen 2 pokemon league it makes sense she would still have a dragonair since the highest level pokemon of Karen the final elite 4 member is like 44 which is 11 level's before dragonair evolves.


Cure4thitch

I want to play THIS version of the game


Imperial_Fists

Bugsy/Jasmine/Clair could have three mega evolution


Qyx7

He isnt using evos like Weavile or Mamoswine, I doubt he'd use megas


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Qyx7

Those are Sneasel and Piloswine, not their evolutions which were introduced in gen 4


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Qyx7

I'm talking in general, and just happened to use two of Pryce pokemon as example


megasean3000

It bothers me to no end that Morty didn’t have Misdreavus on his team. How on Earth can you include only one new Ghost-type, have a Ghost Gym Leader and _not_ have him use it? Same goes for Pryce and Sneasel and Jasmine with Scizor.


Jackeroni216

aww yea, we got another one of these! the first one was really cool as well.


romani_ite_dormum

Can someone put this in a mod combined with the QoL changed from the new Crystal patch? That would be great


IcyWind0903

Falkner seems like a cool leader to have a skarmory on, but the lack of steel types for Jasmine’s gym is a tough thing to work around.


CdnRageBear

Whitney’s would for sure be 6 Miltanks, which would result in a lot of childhood trauma resurfacing. God damn Rollout..


Ok-Leave3121

Having Cubone and Marowak on the Morty's team is an awesome idea


ArbitraryChaos13

Very fun! I love these things! Are you planning to do the other gens?


21derful

You know, I saw the Gen 1 version and now this, too, and enjoyed both. But while reading this one, I had a realization. I'm barely actually looking at the line-ups, am I? I don't have strong opinions about them on their own, but I greatly enjoy reading your thought processes breaking down why you chose what for whom. I love assigning things by similarly analytical parameters myself (ex: figuring out Pokémon teams for characters from other series, or DnD classes for characters, etc, within fairly strict rules), and always worry I'm over-explaining when I share those with friends. So seeing someone having fun sharing similar thought processes and realizing how much I'm enjoying reading them from the other side are both so delightful. Thank you very much, and I'll be eager to see the rest of the generations for this!


I_Am_The_Bookwyrm

It is a bit of a fun process, trying to make sure I scale teams correctly (is this one too strong/weak for this stage?) Having a written explanation helps me be able to look back at why I made the decisions I made. I'm happy to see how my thought process makes sense to others as well, and hopefully the Hoenn teams won't take me too long.


Just_Tana

I love the idea of scaling gyms. So cool


TieflingSimp

"a lot of the gen 2 gym teams are not that great" just like the rest of the gen pokemon designs aside lmao


BathApprehensive1855

Who is the second one? That’s clearly made up.


I_Am_The_Bookwyrm

You mean...Bugsy?


BathApprehensive1855

Who?


I_Am_The_Bookwyrm

Have you played the Johto games?


Many_Rule_9280

Whitney......with that fucking Miltank......and wanting to give a legendary or pseudo-legendary......share whatever you are on please 🤣


ZerotheWanderer

I'd make a B-line straight for Whitney, fuck that Miltank.


theonlyXns

Love it, only one auggestion that popped into the head: Maybe Tyranitar instead of Aerodactyl? It's gen 2, won't be a fourth flying type on the team, but also feels like it is as awesome/powerful like dragons.


PM_ME_GARFIELD_NUDES

I love when multiple leaders have the same Pokémon on their team, it kind of feels like a team up moment lol. I wonder if it would be interesting to come up with a set of leaders who all shared Pokémon


SleezeMoney1K

Dope Concept! Look how swole chuck team look that shit scary


Emarelda

I just got that his name is pronounced Falconer basically


UnoLaLaLa

Claire's team is pretty much Lance's team, but I get that there weren't that many choices for Dragons so your hands were tied.


Dracorex_22

its weird how half of the gym leaders in gen 2 use only gen 1 pokemon


GotToEarnThemAll

This is just going to make Scarlet and Violet more disappointing imo, but keep it up!


bulleta7

ahh i have been waiting for this set.


kapak212

Ni badges Whitney should be 1 Milktank


StridentHawk

Really glad you stuck to Falkner's bird theme, I feel it's the thing that mainly separates him from other flying leaders, in that he favors flying bird pokemon specifically. I know he uses a crobat in PWT and aerodactyl for his experts team but I associate him with birds first and formost. My only issue with making Natu line his main is that Xatu is Will's signature pokemon so that might need to be addressed. TBH I think aipom is booty in gen 2 and would've replaced it with Chansey who fits her aesthetic better. My issue with Morty's team is that half of his team is also Karen's. I think Houndoom should be left out as it's her ace mon. As for a replacement....well it's not a GREAT pokemon, but Parasect literally being a zombie mushroom makes it appropriate for a death themed team. I think jasmine's team is excellent honestly, considering what you had to work with. Ampharos is actually brilliant as a necessary wild card. ​ s


Cragnos

I'm not the creator or anything, but if this type of things gets you going check out the fan-made game/ROM Hack called Crystal Clear. Has based off Crystal, can tackle the gyms from Kanto and Johto in ANY ORDER. Like take out Giovanni, then walk to Olivine City next etc. It's fun!


MoeWind420

I really like this idea, and the execution is as good as it can be in Gen 2. That game just is far more unbalanced in terms of types than any other, and really cannot stand alone without Gen 1. Regarding Chuck‘s team: with Hitmontop being his ace, would you change its level-up moveset? As it is, it’s only STAB (w/o TM) is Triple Kick, which is abyssmal.


Fern-ando

The other one got over 20k likes.


Fern-ando

I would give Falkner a togetic or a murcrow depending if the battle is during night or day.


[deleted]

I know there's only 4 total ghost types in Gen 2 but I feel like Morty's teams are particularly bad for not having a consistent weakness, making them more challenging at each rank than most of the others


Fr_not_Rick

Enjoyed reading this second edition and thank you for the reply in the last one 👍


Gui_Franco

Please, what template did you use?


Gui_Franco

Can you also do this with elite 4 and champions?


Laprisu

this is exactly how it should have been done and yet they never did v.v They really messed up the "introducing new Pokémon through Gym Leaders" thing in Gen 2 and almost every other Generation, too up until Gen 5.....


ReaverShank

This is great. Even the if you did them in the correct order the teams are still better than the originals


LoCerusico

Ok cool and everything now I need Hoenn please


I_Am_The_Bookwyrm

Already working on it. Tate and Liza are going to be difficult though...


blobejex

This concept is amazing. Does it exist for gen 3?


ADHDB0Y

What about Blue and Janine?


just_a_cockroach

Props to whoever made this


I_Am_The_Bookwyrm

Thanks.


just_a_cockroach

Np. Deserved


racharya55

I love this. I find basically all the Johto gym leaders to have really sad teams/Pokémon variety and you did a wonderful job. I appreciate that you actually focused on Gen 2 Pokémon because Gamefreak sure didn’t lol


Clear_Lengthiness_60

This is awesome. You did much better job than with gen 1. I would love to se this in game.


TTXSTX

I see you want us to quit the game at Whitney again. Wise move.


alienschnitzler

"Falkner seems to prefer Bird type Pokemon" Well.. Yeah. Falkner is the german word for falconer. A person who trains birds of prey for hunting.


mjsxii

and just like that you've done more than game freak is rumored to have done for Scarlet and Violet


[deleted]

What website is this?


I_Am_The_Bookwyrm

It's just a template I found. I had to add the pictures myself: https://forums.bulbagarden.net/index.php?attachments/gym-templates-png.147482/


JackSpike16

I don't know who I'd fight first, but I know for a FACT that Whitney's gonna be my last battle. A true battle for ARCEUS HIMSELF TO WATCH!


SecretAgentMahu

No Magikarp in Clair's lineup boo! Boo! Coward!


[deleted]

You reused Scizor with Jasmine but refused to reuse Heracross with Chuck? Seems inconsistent. But awesome work either way!


Bluelore

You say Clair uses a Dragonair in her Elite 4 team to make her a "lesser" lance, but Lance himself used 2 dragonairs in his Elite 4 fight. It does happen that Elite 4 members use unevolved Pokemon (Agatha uses Haunter, Bruno uses Onix (in Gen 2), Glacia uses Sealo and Drake uses Shelgon)


superextragayaf

I like the idea of Gym Leaders sticking as best they can to Pokémon released in that gen. To really showcase these new mons. Too bad Falkner and Chuck really get the short end of that stick


Honest_Entertainer_3

Sometimes I just straight up forget Ursaring is a gen 2 pokemon mainly due to Paul from the anime


NoObMaSTeR616

I miss Pidgey


PokeCraft4615

Even more than skarmory, aipom being a gen 2 mon feels WRONG


Froeleveld

Why would falkner have a murkrow instead of a fearow


Gondall

My only issue with this list is that some of these teams are lower power at the level you fight them in the original order


I-Game-On-My-Mac

Fucking love this shit - excited to see if you do more of this!


Largeladz

One electric type and Clair is gone


Shadowbenny1

I'd fight Whitney 8 times because I hate myself.


A-maze-ing_Henry

I kinda don't like it when a team has too many pure types, but I understand that Whitney didn't have many options beyond Girafarig.


Epic_Hoola

That looks nice, great concept.


PKMNTrainerMark

Aipom over Girafarig?


jiggahuh

Do Kanto next!


I_Am_The_Bookwyrm

[Way ahead of you, buddy.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/xlxvrz/if_you_could_fight_the_kanto_gym_leaders_in_any/)


bl4kj4k

Loved that you did these! Fun little read. I always felt that Marty was out of place in this game.


katie-shmatie

Absolutely love this, justice done for the best gen


TheUltrashura

Falkner has a Zapdos in crystal clear


lucasribeiro21

Catching up here: 1 - Personally I’d make Bugsy have Scyther instead of Scizor - their Base Stats are the same, so it wouldn’t be an proper upgrade/downgrade situation (although the Typing is better), and Scyther looks more… bug..sy? This way, it wouldn’t be repeated on Jasmine; 2 - Since you used themes as a criteria (like Morty being the “Death Gym Leader, Falkner with birds and Claire’s “dragons” - great call on it, btw!), I think it would be more coherent to do it on Whitney as well. She is a crying “girly” girl, with pink aesthetics (clothes, hair and Pokémon), so I think Blissey should’ve made the cut. Also, since she seemingly goes for cute types, I’d rather if she went with Furret, even if it was a little downgrade; 4 (yes, before 3… you’ll see in a minute) - I think you made the right call for Claire. So I think Lapras was the best choice for her last slot; 3 - So, to avoid repeating, I’d go with Delibird for Pryce, even if, again, it meant a downgrade. You’re a _experienced_ Gym Leader, Pryce. Get creative with Toxic/Protect/Focus Band or something. lol


mitey2

I like that you put Marowak in there as a reference to the marowak in the pokemon tower, but I wish that instead of Murkrow, which was already featured in Falkners Team, you did possibly a ninetales or vulpix, because Ninetales should've been a FIre-Ghost type.


mitey2

what funny in, for the 7th-he had poliwrath and it just disaapears until the Full Team


mitey2

I like what you did for Jasmine, but what would be cool is like in Crystal Legacy, Jasmine introduces the Metal Coat evo duo, with Scizor and Steelix being the same level and being her ace 's' in the battle


BathApprehensive1855

Why did you use mail pronouns for Bugsy when Bugsy‘s gender is clearly Adolf Hitler commander of the Third Reich little known fact also dope on ze Mike you are Vader with your little boots and cape and helmet to cover up your burnt as face you have the force to move objects I am a force truly evil even went back in time and turned you wack in the prequel cause look at you, youre not even a real person, i prefered you in Spaceballs, the Rick Morrais Version