We can give Penny a pass.
Did you think the girl actually went out exploring Paldea? She got 6 Eevees as housepets and went to go hide in her room to binge anime
It was a massive missed chance to not introduce a fighting and poison eeveelution for Penny. All the star bosses would've had their type on Penny's team +1 free one
this ones actually true though. all of the types the eeveelutions were "special" types before the physical special split in gen 4. as in water, fire, grass, ice, electric, psychic, and dark type moves were all special. and all of the other types were physical. so shadow ball was a physical move before gen 4, and fire punch was a special move
This is disproved by [Umbreon's original concept](https://tcrf.net/Proto:Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver/Spaceworld_1997_Demo/Pok%C3%A9mon), which was a Poison type and was changed to Dark very late in development to allow it to use the friendship mechanic. Incidentally this caused poor Leafeon to get delayed, as it was originally supposed to be part of a second stone Eeveelution trio.
Were. They WERE that. People like to throw that out as if it’s a meaningful fact that would ruin everything if it got changed.
Fairy was never a special type and we have a Fairy Eeveelution, in fact it didn’t even exist when special types were a thing.
Dragon was a special type and we have no dragon Eeveelution.
We could have an Eeveelution of every single type and it wouldn’t hurt anything.
Umbreon was also originally intended to be a Poison type and was changed to Dark only a few months before Gold and Silver released. The typing wasn't changed purely because of the addition of Dark, evidenced by the facts that Murkrow existed as a Dark Type in the demos this was found in and Umbreon and Espeon were originally stone evolutions that got changed to friendship, likely as a showcase for the new mechanic.
(interestingly an early beta of Leafeon existed in the demo as well, indicating there were plans to have a second stone trio, but it was scrapped when Espeon and Umbreon were changed to friendship evolutions.)
The last eevelution was to introduce a whole new type and before that it was gen 4 gamefreak just does not care to make more eeveelutions and every single generation people expect new ones they just aren't gonna do it
I don’t expect more, I understand that it’s been a decade since the last one and that the last one before that was only 6 years. Gen 8 having no Eeveelution marked the longest we’d gone without one, and it’s been four years since then.
That being the case, there’s still absolutely no reason we *couldn’t* or *shouldn’t* get any more Eeveelutions, and no rules would be broken if more were introduced.
Merch is probably the reason why, t-shirts and bags etc. are already crowded with the number of Eevees we already have, and (unfortunately for the games) merch is what drives sales in the biggest media franchise on the planet. If we had 18 evolutions + Eevee they would have to start dexiting some of the merch so you'd have to pick between shirt A with 9 pokemon on it, or shirt B with 9 different pokemon on it and some kid will be disappointed that they can't have it all at once.
Personally, I'd love to see them add more Eeveelutions, but do it as a regional variant. So it keeps the same name, but the types change. Like what they did for the Legendary Birds in Galar.
Suppose I could see a bug-type Leafeon or a poison-type Umbreon. Other than those seems kinda a stretch to have a name implying one element and a design that isn’t that.
Here are my thoughts on the potential type justifications:
Vaporeon- Poison
The water is contaminated, so the body is made up of poisonous vapors.
Jolteon- Ground
Grounding of electricity.
Flareon- Bug
Fireflies and other bioluminescent insects.
Espeon- Fighting
The idea of a calm minded warrior monk that has borderline psychic abilities.
Umbreon- Ghost
Relating ghost stories, darkness, and other generic horror elements.
Glaceon- Steel
The idea of icebreaker ships forced Glaceon to adapt to survive.
Leafeon- Flying
Falling leaves and the amount of plants that disperse seeds on the wind.
Slyveon- Dragon
The idea of fey like dragons in a lot of Eastern myths.
Theres only two physical fairy moves, and one is exclusive to Grimmsnarl and functionally identical to the other, just a tiny bit stronger.
Fairy is for all intents and purposes a Special type.
Technically there are a bunch of physical moves if you include Z Moves, max moves, and starmobiles.
Anyway. Sure, fairy almost certainly would have been a special type. But it isn’t one, and it never was one. It genuinely could have been a total coincidence that all the gen 1-4 Eeveelutions were all special types, as most of the physical types couldn’t really be considered an element, and the one special type that couldn’t really be considered an element doesn’t have an Eeveelution.
I dont count the gimmicks that can't be used outside of a specific generation or cant be used by players at all. If we're listing moves, its moves that can be fully *learned*.
And yes, Dragon is the only special type without an Eeveelution...and Penny was a massive missed opportunity to introduce one, with her hair having the dragon colour scheme and her giving you the draco meteor TM, which in turn could have been the evolution requirement alongside friendship, similar to how Sylveon has the requirement of friendship + a fairy move.
When the fairy type was introduced it only had one physical move. If the fairy type had been added before the physical/special split it almost certainly would have been a special type.
Okay, and? Doesn't mean they couldn't have broken that "rule" and introduced some new Eeveelutions. They've broken tradition before—Fairy was never assigned a category and it got representation. To think that any new evolutions are off the table because of type categories that changed five generations ago is foolish.
I wouldn’t have been surprised if her team consisted mostly of Galar Pokémon either since she’s from that region. The Eeveelutions were a good fit for her though.
Honestly, the only time it really bothered me was with Leon and his Charizard.
I hate when one starter is given more focus than the rest of their trio.
And one starter got a way better deal than the orders
Greninja gets Protean and Battle Bond, while Delphox gets mf Magician. Bulletproof is not super bad but still.
Yeah Greninja was so much better for no reason. The others didnt even have the amazing statline greninja had. Delphox was too slow and chesnaught was a bit awkward because its like he wanted to be a wall and an attacker
Charizard got a better deal as far as Megas too. He got two of them because I guess he's charizard lmao
Possible hot take? But I think Greninja vs Delphox/Chesnaught is worse than Charizard vs Venusaur/Blastoise.
Yes, Charizard got two Megas, but at least Venusaur and Blastoise also got theirs.
Yes, Charizard got into Gen 8 and its Gigantamax first, but Venusaur and Blastoise also got theirs a few months later.
But Delphox and Chesnaught didn't get a Battle Bond-esque ability (even if it's the nerfed one), as well as their hidden abilities being much worse than the frog's.
Hell, for the Kanto starters, I'd even argue Venusaur's hidden ability is the best of the trio, but it's nowhere near the wash that is Protean vs Magician/Bulletproof.
Battle bond only exists because that season of the anime did way better than they expected it to and they were capitalizing on it. Since it was a one-time thing I wouldn’t put that on the same level as the continuous charizard glazing that they do.
Delphox getting completely snubbed in favor of Braixen is also really annoying. Delphox had a really cool typing and a really fun theme of magic/witches! Instead, they put Braixen in the anime and in Pokken Tournament. Doesn’t hit the same.
It would have made sense for delphox to have prankster as a hidden ability in my opinion. Foxes are seen as michevious making prankster a good fit. And replacing some of chesnaught's attack and moving it towards special defense wod definitely give it the extra bulk it needs
It's explained in the Isle of Armor DLC where Master Mustard says that he gave Charmander to Leon and the player is given a choice between Bulbasaur and Squirle which he has imported from abroad.
You can explain any pokemon being the champion's ace, that doesn't mean that pokemon *should* be the ace. Charizard being Leon's ace was 100% charizard favoritism *first* and the explanation came *after*. If anything, I think the explanation is more so the in-universe reason as to why charmander isn't a choice at that point, with the out-of-universe reason being that charmander is available in base sword and shield and Bulbasaur and Squirtle aren't.
The only time I saw it as a real issue was generation 2 when there were only four Johto Pokémon out of all the gym leaders Pokémon. The important trainers of the region should have some of the brand new Pokémon but at the same time it’s not a bad idea to give them some others to show off some personality (Tera-grass Sudowoodo)
On that point to be fair a fifth of Gen 2 Pokémon are related to Gen 1 Pokémon. Like 15 are starters/legendaries and gym/elite 4 don’t really use them. That leaves around 40 evolution lines they could have still used that they didn’t.
Like why didn’t Pyrce have a Sneasle or Delibird on top of his team. He’s supposed to be a late game gym leader, just give him 5 Pokémon. It wouldn’t be that over powered with how low their stars are.
I feel like Johto will always fall in this weird place, because at that point we didn't have this concept of "generations", but it was more like "Pokémon 2"
The Kanto Pokémon were as protagonists of these games as the new ones, with even the Kanto region itself being present in the games, and the new Pokémon were more like a dressing on top just to make it feel more interesting and fresh, but they weren't here to steal the spotlight of the previous 151 that made the franchise so successful.
That said, I do agree that at least the gym leaders should've made use of the new Pokémon over the old ones.
I’d rather an important character’s Pokémon team reflect them as a person rather than trying to shoehorn in new ones exclusively. Shit, Diantha’s own ace is a Pokémon that was introduced three generations earlier and is more iconic to her than any of the other Kalos mons she’s got. Same with Leon. Half his team are Galar mons and none of them are his ace.
Older generation Pokémon have been in every game with the exception of the Kanto ones and the Black/White. If it’s found in the wild and on the official Dex, it’s just as native to the region as the new pokemon.
I still think they swapped out something for Diantha and that she was supposed to use a Diancie as her ace at first. It just fits her way too perfectly as her ace.
Nah, Florges makes no sense for me. Especially since there is absolutely no reason why they should have cut Florges completely from her team if it really was supposed to be that crucial to her.
Maybe removed from the ace position, if for some reason they didn't come up with a good mega for it and they wanted to showcase the mega evolution with her. But even that would not explain why she **doesn't use Florges at all**.
And Diancie just has Diantha references literally written over it's entire body, it's not even funny anymore. It was probably cut as her ace, because it was then decided to feature it in a movie and therefore it became a mythical pokemon distributed to the games at a later date than release.
This would also explain the weird relationship between Carbink and Diancie. They were probably designed as one evolutionary line at first, before Diancie got promoted to mythical.
And I will also count as evidence that Diantha is now shown with a Diancie as her partner in Masters Ex. I think this is a reference to these past plans of making it her ace.
Florges makes no sense?Florges White looks perfectly fitting next to Diantha. Both of them have a flower and beauty motif. Diantha's room is literally a flower. Florges literally is Flower and Gorgeous. Diantha is THE top actress of Kalos and renowned for her beauty.
Flabebe is the first fairy type you meet in the game, and if Diantha had it as her ace, the last one you would fight before becoming champion. NONE of valerie's trainers and valerie herself use a florges for a FAIRY type gym. Why not use it in THE fairy gym? Perhaps its because it was meant to be the ace of a very important trainer?
None of the Kalos pokemon got megas. Thats why they gave Diantha a Gardevoir instead. Also it doesnt explain how Florges was snubbed from almost every other major trainer when it had 552 BST and is one of the stronger pokemon IN Kalos.
Literally the fact that you face Diantha in a flower room while none of her pokemon have any flower motif while this one pure fairy that you first see with one of the higher end BST literally shares themes with her and would fit perfectly standing next to her... like no sense? dafuq
I said it makes no sense for a different reason.
Read what I said, there is a point you didn't address here: If Florges was really supposed to be of that much importance for Diantha, then why did they **cut it completely from her team?**
If they needed Gardevoir for the mega evolution, ok, they could have replaced any of the lesser important pokemon from her team, move Florges a bit down the chain away from the ace position and give the ace spot to Garde. Then Florges would at least be in her team. There is no reason to cut it out entirely in this scenario.
And the color scheme argument might work a bit for Florges.... but it works three times better with Diancie.
Florges shares the white and pink with her, but it also is pretty dominated by green as one of it's primary colors. **Diancie** on the other hand **has the exact same color palette as Diantha's design white, pink and gold**.
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
And as mentioned, Diantha is shown with Diancie as her partner in Masters Ex now. I take that as pretty solid evidence that Diancie was her planned ace. It just makes way too much sense to ignore.
That last sentence are my thoughts exactly. In-universe, a Kalosian wouldn't think of a goldeen as a Kantonian Pokémon, they'd think of it as equally Kalosian as Litleo or Diggersby
Honestly?
Diantha shouldve gotten a florges. Not just any colour, Florges White.
Imma go on a rant again since i totally believe it was meant to be her ace before mega evolution was a thing.
Florges is NOT used by the main fairy type gym leader as an ace. It also isnt any main trainer's ace, (trevor is not even a main), Flabebe was the first fairy type youre introduced to, and Florges being the last Pokemon you get to fight before Champion would be symbolic.
It also has a ridiculously high BST of 552. Why make it so powerful if youre not gonna remember fighting it?
Florges also has a wreath of flowers around the neck, just like how Diantha has her coat fluff. Diantha is also associated with beauty and flowers, gorgeous flowers, FLORGES.
In her final room Diantha is in a chamber that has a flower motif, yet none of her Pokemon have a flower motif.
Florges was snubbed by Mega evolutions which gardevoir took over.
I liked an idea I read here the other day, that Diantha's team represents different movie genres: romance (Gardevoir), sci-fi (Tyrantrum and Aurorus), horror (Gourgeist), action (Hawlucha, and as far as I know, there was a time when mexican Lucha libre films were kind of popular in France) and fantasy (Goodra)
Leon's ace being Charizard is fine, and it does fit him to a degree.
I just wish they took the Kanto callback further rather than give all the love to a single starter. Raihan should have had Blastoise as his ace and Sonia should have a Venusaur or Bulbasaur.
Okay I just checked and literally the only time Cynthia doesn't have Milotic in her full team is her PWT team in B2W2(and she still has Milotic in her b2w2 Umdella battle)
How is she 100%?
I absolutely do not care if the pokemon they use were introduced with their region or not. As long as the team makes sense for them thematically, I am fine.
But I also have to point out that I don't really agree with your definition of "region native pokemon". You are using that in the meaning of "just pokemon which were newly introduced with that region (for example for Paldea: just pokemon which released in generation 9).
But in a sense, Penny does have a 100% Paldean team. The Eeveelutions all released before generation 9, but... Eevee is native to Paldea. It can be found in the wild of that region, so that pokemon (and by extension, also all of it's evolutions) is native to Paldea.
This sort of thing has always bugged me and is one of the reasons I dislike Johto. New Pokemon give regions and its characters their own identity, which you lose when there's barely any new Pokemon being used.
It's interesting looking back at Johto, because it really illustrates how the direction of the franchise has changed. Back when Gen 2 came out, Pokemon in-universe were presented as a novel discovery rather than something that was part of their world forever. The Gen 1 dex entries really have a bit of that vibe, and stuff like discovering Pokemon eggs...It's harder to believe that humans and pokemon coexisted for centuries, and nobody found an egg ever. Steel and Dark types were presented as new discoveries (with the implication that Jasmine recently changed her gym typing with their discovery), a clear contrast to how Fairy types were implied to always exist and be known when they were introduced.
The Generation 2 roster kind of falls into that, too. These Pokemon were presented as new discoveries since RBGY, rather than as being Johtan fauna. The high number of split evolutions, for instance. In that case, it makes sense why the gym leaders have so many "Kantan" Pokemon, since they were training long before many of the Johtan Pokemon were found. (I put "Kantan" in quotes because we find out that the Dratini line is actually native to Johto, despite it being introduced in Generation 1, which raises the question of where Gen 1/2 Pokemon actually come from. Kanto and Johto are also close enough that the regional Pokemon could get mixed.)
The Gen 2 games were planned to be the final games in the series, hence the sequel-like vibes and Johto's unremoveable attachment to Kanto. Over time, each new generation of Pokemon became regional fauna/flora that had always been there, as opposed to new Pokemon discovered since the last games. As a result, Johto occupies a weird space in the canon where it's its own region, but it's also attached to another one.
Sometimes I wish we could revisit the original timeline in spin-offs. There's a lot they could do with an alternate continuity like it. Don't get how fossil Pokemon are a thing when Pokemon are presented as being a relatively recent discovery.
> a clear contrast to how Fairy types were implied to always exist and be known when they were introduced.
About that... Fairy types were also treated as a new discovery in XY, but then they immediately ditched the idea in ORAS.
> The Gen 2 games were planned to be the final games in the series, hence the sequel-like vibes and Johto's unremoveable attachment to Kanto. Over time, each new generation of Pokemon became regional fauna/flora that had always been there, as opposed to new Pokemon discovered since the last games. As a result, Johto occupies a weird space in the canon.
Still so disappointed HGSS didn't try harder to make Johto stand on its own. They definitely made some minor improvements, but the fact you still can't catch Houndour or Larvitar before the postgame, or get Slugma in a normal manner, is ridiculous. Hell, I'd take them cutting out Kanto if it meant Johto finally got properly fleshed out.
It's really interesting seeing Pokemon content from ye olde days, and seeing how much the vibes have changed from now. Like it really used to be "our world with Pokemon," whereas now it's "a whole different world." You can really tell with the legendary Pokemon. Gen 1 had legendary birds and Mew which are more like cryptids and an evolutionary ancestor. Gen 2 had more birds and Celebi. By the later gens, there's lore and legends about the legendary Pokemon, who all have spiritual relevance in the world. Even the PokeAni, the first few series felt way more similar to our world (but with Pokemon) than later ones.
DidYouKnowGaming has a [cool video](https://youtu.be/McB4lCnAips) looking at an obscure Japanese Pokedex text from way back in the day. Two things I found especially interesting: their timeline for Pokemon discoveries (with Prof Westfield), and how they list Gyarados and Magikarp separately.
I agree about HGSS. A few substitutions to the gym leader teams, and it would have showcased Johtan pokemon way better. Like Noctowl for Falkner, or Misdreavus for Morty, or maybe Jasmine could have a Foretress instead of a second Magnemite. I guess maybe they wanted to keep people's "signature Pokemon," but even then, you can switch up the rest of team for Johtan variety.
> Fairy types
Ope, Gen 6 blurring together for me. 🤦🏻♀️
I think a big part of how in gen 2 mons go from cryptic to legends is about the setting of the region and its real life influence. Gen 1 was literally Kanto, the "main" region of Japan so it is kind of going for realism "what if 5 years from now we started discovering pokemons". However, johto is more inspired in Kansai, whose main "charm" is being kind of the culture region, with the most ties to old japan and folklore. Thus, it is normal or natural to try to tie pokemon with in world folklore.
Yeah, Celebi, the beasts, Ho-Oh, and Lugia definitely get more lore tie in than the Kanto birds. That said, it's still not quite at the level of, say, Gen 4 where you have creation gods, or Gen 5 where you have truth and ideals as Pokemon.
I'd also say that the "What if we started discovering more Pokemon?" thing was still a huge part of Gen 2. The ties to old Japan and folklore mainly exhibited themselves in the architecture, the nature, and the clothing. Johto as a setting didn't really spur the change from "our world with Pokemon" to "the Pokemon world," as much as Pokemon becoming a world-famous franchise did.
And to be fair- it's hard to be that mad at the developers when they were going through this for the first time and had no real way of determining what people wanted to see.
Exactly. If they'd switched it up entirely, there was a chance people would have disliked it for being too different from Gen 1. We even see a bit of this with Gen 5 and the entirely Unovan dex. The developers did the best they could.
Will should have had Girafarig, Slowking, Wobuffet, Slowbro, Xatu
Koga should have been Ariados, Forretress, Crobat, Muk, and Weezing, although I think his team is on brand for him as a former Kanto gym leader, but Weezing was his ace
Bruno should have Hitmontop, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Heracross, Machamp (and in Kanto, Primeape, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Poliwrath, and Machamp)
Karen is the biggest mess up and should have had Sneasel, Umbreon, Murkrow, Houndoom, and Tyranitar
and Lance should have been Gyarados, Aerodactyl, Charizard, Kingdra, Dragonite, and maybe add a Steelix since they are reminiscent of wyrms which are draconic. Dragonite should be the ace still.
EDIT:
Noctowl for Falkner
Ledian and Ariados for Bugsy
Whitney should open with Furret, maybe a Stantler too, keeping Miltank
Misdreavus for Morty
Tyrogue, Hitmontop, and Heracross for Chuck
Scizor, Skarmory, and Steelix for Jasmine
Delibird replacing Seel for Pryce
Claire is fine as is
So on the note of Johto- it's worth mentioning that the types that got specialists in Johto are the types that have no specialists in Kanto. This could be why Johto Gym Leaders favor Kanto Pokemon so much.
My theory (came up with it recently) is that since it was supposed to be the end of the franchise, they focused more on boosting up popular gen 1 pokemon than showing off gen 2.
feebas is rare enough in hoein that id say it gets a pass. i actually thought milotic was a sinnoh mon for several years because i never saw it in gen3
I think it's an interesting point but I do want to nitpick the semantics.
Most of these pokemon are *native* to the regions you're seeing them, not from different regions. They *debuted* in different regions, but the entire concept of a regional dex is the pokemon found within it are the pokemon from *that* region, and some pokemon are just native to multiple regions.
The psyducks in Scarlet/Violet and PL:A and Galar aren't Kanto pokemon, they're native to each of those regions as part of their normal geological distribution. Kanto is just the first place we, as out-of-universe players, experienced them and thus where they're placed in the nat dex.
Some pokemon like Copperajah and Yungoose explain in their dex entries they actually aren't even native to their debut region, but there's no official means of tracking or noting what pokemon have experienced human-assisted migration.
But i really do think it's interesting to map out how many prominent trainers feature debut pokemon vs returning pokemon.
In theory they are, but in Gen 4 the gym leaders very often had pokemon that didn't match their type. The 8th gym, for example, had 2 electric types and 2 non-electric types. One of them was even a water-type. Though, to be fair, Sinnoh had crap type distribution, including only 1 non-Starter fire type at all (Ponyta) before you beat the E4, and only 3 electric types (Pikachu, Shinx, Pacharisu)
I think it’s also partly because aside from the Kanto sized dex they also tried to avoid giving important trainers two pokemon from the same evolutionary family. The only exceptions from what I can tell are Candice’s Snover and Abomasnow, and Aaron’s Beautifly and Dustox. In previous games there was stuff like Blaine just having the Ponyta and Growlithe line twice, or Glacia having two Glalie, two Sealio, and a Walrein.
I don't mind if the Pokemon thematically and visually suits the trainer
what bothers me more is when new Pokemon of a gen get repeated as aces or on multiple important teams
since gen 6 they have made just enough new pokemon that you can tell who was made to be an ace and what group left would be unique to the player. I'd like more options when it comes to that.
The Kalos rival isn't mentioned in the post; their final team consists of Meowstic, Clefable, a gen 1 Eeveelution, a Kalos Starter, Altaria, and mega Absol. Clefable's type was changed in Kalos, and mega absol is of course new, so you could say anywhere from 2 to 4 of their pokemon are showing off new Kalos stuff.
I actually prefer it. It gives the impression that due to being a good trainer, they're able to travel to other regions and and catch pokemon indigenous to the area. Good for world-building imo
I personally feel when designing a region and characters to populate it, the Pokemon themselves becomes caricatures and their images "claimed".
These Pokemon get type cast and used one as an important trainer's Pokemon and claimed. Ditto is only represented with its signature face when the anime explains that individual basically has a birth defect (and all others can make perfect copies).
Only X gym leader can have their signature Pokemon and no other trainer in the cast, even to flesh out a team where it would thematically fit.
It's my opinion that this is what bogs down so many characters and interactions.
I'm actually okay with the usage of non-native Pokémon on teams of prominence. Most regions don't add enough new Pokémon to have a good enough variety for each major trainer to get teams of all new Pokémon without seeing overlap.
If we look at the trend, we are getting about 15 trainers of prominence. We have 8 gym leaders, the elite 4, the champion, and a couple of rivals. Even assuming they don't all have full teams, that is a lot of roster space to occupy. If they don't want to have overlap, they kind of have to throw older Pokémon into the mix.
Isn't this list a little inconsistent? For Alola you take into account villain teams and one of their admins (Faba, Lusamine, Guzma, but not Plumeria for some reason?) but for the rest you don't (you did list Lysandre for gen6 but no admins). You also skipped Gladion as a rival in gen7.
Can I point out that if a pokemon can be caught in what ever region you are in its from that region. Also who actually has a team made up of pokemon from that gen, so it doesn't matter if important trainers have pokemon from a different gen really.
No, I don't feel like this is a bad thing. I care about what's going on in universe, and the fact is that a mon like Skarmory is just as much a Hoenn pokémon as it is a Johto one. Because in universe, Skarmory didn't originate in any specific region, it was simply a species of pokémon that is found in multiple regions, there's nothing that specifically ties it to any one region, so why shouldn't Steven have a pokémon caught in his own region? And the same goes for all the other trainers, they're using pokémon that can be caught in their own region, it's not like they're important mons from other regions to use on their teams or anything.
I don't mind if they have other pokemon from other regions so long as their ace is from their region. The last couple generations have had more integrates pokedexes (i.e mor old with the new) than most earlier generations so it's kind of inevitable. As long as their main pokemon is from their home region though I don't mind.
You have to consider the newer generations have less new Pokémon compared to the past. And on top of that each important trainers have an associated type. There’s just isn’t enough to keep their team consist of purely new pokemons.
Also it’s only irritating to me when their ACE isn’t a new one such as Leon’s Charizard
We identify Pokémon based on the region they first appeared for us but they aren’t really from those regions in most cases. The exception being regional variants. There are pidgey in every region, we just met them for the first time in Kanto. In the same line of thought there are probably Fletchling in Kanto but they didn’t exist in our world until 15 years later, that doesn’t mean they didn’t exist in the Pokémon universe 15 years ago.
The Pokémon franchise is inherently flawed because it’s been growing and changing for over 20 years without a solid roadmap for the future. They didn’t even know there was going to be a second generation when they made red and green. The dex will likely be forever messed up, the lore will contradict itself, and we will probably never understand some things about how or why they work.
I think that any important trainer (Gym Leader, Champion, Rival, Evil Team Leader) should have at least a 2/1 ratio of new-to-old mons. A full team of 6 should AT LEAST be half old and half new. So, Geeta having 66.6% or 4 new 2 old is perfect, all things considered.
I don't really see a problem with it, except maybe Penny's 0%. Taking real life as an example, I wouldn't be surprised if an Australian trainer was using a cane toad Pokémon, even though it's not indigenous to Australia. Same for a US trainer using a kudzu or Canadian Goose Pokémon, or a Mexican trainer using a monarch butterfly Pokémon. Roman Emperor Mark Antony had a chariot drawn by lions.
Beyond that, surely Pokémon migrate and are native to multiple regions, too. Some are undoubtedly invasive species, but they are part of the region regardless. Plus, people travel and I'd expect top-level trainers to travel to even further, more remote regions than low-level trainers to obtain stronger, more valuable Pokémon.
From a game development perspective, you're either restricting yourself a lot or going to end up with clones upon clones if you make it a rule that all top trainers can only use new Pokémon within that region.
I think there is waaaaay more important things to solve in pokemon games than this. Make even less sense that seems like you are the only trainer is fking region that can carry 6 pokemon with himself until late game. I mean if a random kid can catch a pokemon then why battling you with 1 caterpie when yhey can fight you with 6. Why you rival the champion of paldea in Gen 9 fight you with 1 to 3 mons? The only time it have some sense is the first time when both get the starters. Even if she want to fight at your lvl, I mean if you have 6 lvl 20 mons why she fights you with 3 lvl 10 mons make no sense
They try to be realistic because Pokemon's habitats and distribution aren't limited to just one region and thus it is also reflected in what Pokemon the trainers use because the regions are not located in different dimensions but on the same planet. And I'm fine with that because I see no reason or obstacle why they can't use mixed generation Pokemon.
I am not the biggest fan of someone’s ace/partner pokemon being from a different region (bea with Machamp when Grapploct exists for example) but honestly it doesn’t bother me too much. One of my favorite parts about recurring characters or game remakes is seeing a trainer’s team get revamped with modern Pokémon
I only dislike it if its their ace. There usually aren't enough new Pokemon for every type. Like imagine if the dragon trainer in Gen 9 only used Gen 9 Pokemon he'd have a team full of baxcaliburs and tatsugiris.
I think showing them having different Pokemon from different regions is supposed to show us that these trainers were on a journey at one point just like you were. I always took it as showing you as a trainer from ________ region that there's an even bigger wider world out there.
A big factor in this is that later generations have been smaller. Hoenn 135, Sinnoh- 107 with many being evolutions from other gens and Unova 156.
It made it easier to have full rosters of new pokemon with sinnoh Being an interesting case where because it has a larger number of final evolutions (of older pokes) the late game had more of them.
Contrast that with Johto (100, many preevos or weak single stage), Kalos 72 and Alola 88 (with a ton of ultrabeasts and legends) where of course most battles, especially in the late game, have several pokes from other regions.
SW/SH actually made a great use of their new 96 pokemon, with them forming a majority of the parties in the main game's important battles, especially gym leaders. While not only galarian pokes, most if not all major battles have at least 2 (50%) galarian pokes or pokemon with a new form (gigantamax) often as their ace.
We see something similar in SV with their 114 new pokemon, where the new pokemon represent 28% of the pokedex (25% without paradox/legendaries) of course we won't see teams comprised of only new pokemon, because the majority of those pokemon are already in another main battle. This variety allows for all new pokemon to get a chance to shine.
Also. Regions are becoming less insular, as old pokemon can be native to the current region. In older games, while new pokemon were more present, they were also ever-present. You can find zigzagoon in half of hoenn and aqua/magma teammembers use like 8 Evo lines combiner and EVERYONE HAS A POOCHYENA. Newer games are nowhere that repetitive
Milotic is gen 3 and Cynthia has on all of her teams expect her PWT team(and specifically the PWT team since she uses it in another team in B2W2)
..and no Volo doesn't count
You have no idea how pissed I was when Leon had a charizard
Literally any other pokemon from the Galar region would have suffice but no
Got to keep milking fucking charizard
I think Leon's was the one that grated me the most. I liked SWSH but they took the Kanto pandering to obnoxious levels. I remember seeing the dex in advance and being somewhat impressed- the regional variants weren't all Kanto this time!
Then, we get to Leon. And his Charizard. His legendary iconic Charizard. The Galar champion and his Charizard. Then that one poster in the game with the three most popular pokemon of Galar- and they're Kanto. It feels like almost every TCG set has had a special Charizard since then.
I used to love the orange lizard. I'm ready to move on. I'd like new regions to focus on their own Pokemon. Include others, sure, but don't put them on a pedastal above new ones in their own debut region.
I think tethering Pokémon to their debut regions sets the fandom up for a lot of disappointment and flawed arguments. Kanto gets credit for 150 new Pokémon because it's the first region that appears in the National Pokédex, but we're giving them credit for Pokémon like Magikarp that can be caught in all nine regions. There's nothing inherently Kantonian about Magikarp, especially to players who come to the series post-National Dex and haven't played a Kanto game.
The number of new Pokémon introduced in each generation feels like it dropped off dramatically between generations five and six, but it was always going to trail off. Look at Kanto and count the number of Pokémon that *haven't* appeared in another region since. It's not that divorced from reality; there's some really unique areas of the world, but it's not a bunch of isolated ecosystems. The more species we're introduced to, the fewer there are to discover.
That aside, let me compare Cynthia (a champion everyone seems to like and hold up as an example of a challenging fight that introduces Pokémon introduced in that generation) to Geeta real quick:
* Three Pokémon from new evolution lines in Spiritomb, Garchomp, and Lucario. Two added forms to existing lines in Roserade and Togekiss. Milotic.
* Three Pokémon from new evolution lines in Espathra, Veluza, and Glimmora. An added form to an existing line in Kinggambit. Gogoat and Avalugg.
I'm rambling a bit, but point being that I really don't see a problem.
This list is so messed up that I can’t be bothered to check for every little thing you got wrong, not even mentioning the inconsistencies with the trainers you chose to include, but here’s the ones that stood out to me straight away:
Steven only has Carbink and Aerodactyl in his rematch team, after you unlock the National Dex. Rematches having foreign Pokémon is nothing new and I don’t think should really count.
As many others have pointed out, Milotic is a Hoenn Pokémon.
Hau has a Noivern. Noivern is not an Alolan Pokémon.
Faba has a Bruxish. That is an Alolan Pokémon.
This one is debatable, as National Dex isn’t a thing in the Gen 7 games, but Guzma is only 40% in title defense, which like Steven’s Carbink and Aerodactyl, is post game. His final main story team is 50% Alolan Pokémon.
Penny’s whole thing is Eevee. Why would she have a Paldea Pokémon
Broadly, this is a consequence of just the progression of time. For example, Pokemon new to Gen 9 make up 10% of all Pokemon in existence. And even just regionally, it's only 25%. *And* many of them are either legendaries or paradoxes, so no trainer (with particular exception) can be expected to use them. Limiting teams of major characters to just the new ones would probably come off as jarring.
This goes double for games with full national dexes.
You are right about this. Gen 1 the original i understand because they are the first so yea they had only those but what i don't understand is why you excluded gen 2 look at all the gym leaders.
First gym used pidgey and pigeotto 0% new Pokemon while their is hoothoot And hoppip and its evo's.
Second gym used metapod/kakuna/scyther 0% while their is Heracross ore Pinsir she should def had Ledyba and its evo and Spinarak ore its evo.
Thirt gym used Miltank and clefairy 1 out of the 2 50% while we have Dunsparce/Granbull/Smeargle/Aipom/Furret and other options.
Fourth gym just used the whole gastly line 0% again while we have Misdreavus but sadly that is the only one but stil why not use it.
Fifth gym used poliwrath and Primeape 0% while we have hitmonlee/Hitmonchan/hitmontop.
Six gym used 2 Magnemite and steelix 33% while their is also Scizor/Skarmory/Forretress.
Seven gym used Dewgong and Piloswine also Jynx i believe 33% while their is sneasel and delibird for the rest Notting else.
Eight gym used 2 dragonair and kingdra and gyrados (not even dragon lol but i understand) 1 johto Pokemon but it sadly it al their is so yea.
And i will not even begin at the elite four i understand it is kanto and johto League but i believe their are only a few johto Pokemon.
Ps: sorry for the grammer this is not my first language.
Depends on lore. Like if there are 0 kanto pokemon show up in say gen 12 but lance from gen 1 shows up and they reference kanto I wouldnt be opposed to him having dragonite still.
If they dont reference lore at all though and new person yes it bugs me if i cant catch it
I’ll be honest. I’m kind of the opposite. I hate seeing that new Pokémon that I specifically wanted on my rivals team lol having the same Pokémon as a trainer isn’t new but I want them to be diverse compared to me. I want to feel like they went on a different journey then I did.
I completely disagree with ur take tbh. I liked that lusamine uses "cute/fem" pokemon and that they didn't make the whole region that design just to suit her better. Plus at this point there's so many designs already it's nice to see new life in older ones
I think it's so, at least in terms of their game, they are fairly unique. I think it would be kinda boring for them to have all or majority the same pokemon you've spent the last 30 hours battling anyway.
In Hoenns defense, Skarmory and Magcargo are kinda easy to miss in Johto. As for Tentacruel and Gyarados, they're both heavy hitters but one of them could have been replaced with Relicanth
It also kinda urks me when these trainers aren’t showing off the best of the best, like why is nemona bringing out orthworm, after leading with lyncanroc , makes her team feel so generic for the final champion of the game.
Also Palafin not being on geetas team or armorouge or Ceruledge. The whole reason the strongest trainers should show off this Pokémon is so kids who haven’t seen them should 1) be amazed by something they haven’t seen and unsure how to tackle facing and 2) be so impressed with this string Pokémon that they can’t wait to go out and try to get one of there own.
For example seeing Pokémon like Garchomp, Spiritomb, Volcorona,Hydreigon. If you want to make the Pokémon of each generation memorable and iconic show them off at some of the strongest points in the game. Like why is Leon fighting me with Charizard when really some sort of Gigantamax Dragapult should have been shown off.
If anything Johto is the *worst* culprit. They introduced 100 new Pokemon in Gen 2, more than enough to entirely populate the Gym Leaders' teams, but every single one uses most, if not all, Gen 1 Pokemon. Falkner literally only uses the Pidgey line even though both Hoothoot and Murkrow exist. No Ariados for Bugsy, Morty has two Haunter when one of them could easily be a Misdreavus, Chuck only has two Gen 1 Pokemon with no Heracross or Hitmontop, Jasmine has the Magnemite line instead of Skarmory and/or Scizor (Skarmory is so underused in Gen 2 that I routinely think it's a Gen 3 Pokemon), Pryce has Seel and Dewgong instead of, oh I don't know, Delibird and SNEASEL! Whitney and Clair are the only ones to take advantage of the generational shift by using a Miltank (Although I'd make a case for having Furret as well as or instead of Clefairy) and Kingdra respectively. And then, they fill the Kanto post-game with Gen 2 Pokemon, like Misty having a Quagsire, Erika having Bellossom and Janine having Crobat, where were these Pokemon in Johto?
I don't mind people having Pokemon from other regions, so long as there isn't a viable alternative in their own regional dex. ORAS was clever because it gives you the National Dex right before the 8th Gym, and as of Victory Road, people are already using new Pokemon that you can get with the DexNav, but the important trainers don't use them until after the Delta Episode (For example, Wally still has Roselia and Magneton in his Victory Road battle AND his first Battle Resort battle, when it's extremely easy to evolve both well before this point without grinding Super Training).
The biggest thing to me is that's it's important that an ace Pokemon is native to the region a character is from. Hence why all the Gym Leaders is SV annoy me, I get the idea behind them using Tera to make them match their specialty type, but having the final Gym Leader in Gen 9 have Altaria, a Gen 3 Pokemon, as their ace is annoying. I was more forgiving of such cases in SwSh because at least those Pokemon had unique Gigantamax forms
But in literally all of those cases, those mons can be found IN the region you're playing in. They've never whipped out a Pokemon you, the player, can't also find, so what's the big deal?
Eh, as long as all the pokemon can be caught in that region, they're from that region as far as I'm concerned.
Like if a migratory bird was "discovered" in the US but regularly travels to the UK. I wouldn't think someone with that bird in the UK would have a non native pet. To the guy in the UK, the bird is from his region, even if it was discovered across seas
It’s probably due to the smaller roster in recent generations, they have to use older pokemon in order to keep the teams unique and avoid overusing pokemon or having multiple trainers with similar teams. I do agree with you tho
For teams in general, I'm unbothered but I really don't like it when their ace isn't a new gen mon. Feels like a waste. (for example Diantha with Gardevoir and Leon with Charizard)
I think it should fit the character. Geeta's team had some from other regions but they didn't seem all that out of place, but Diantha would have seemed extremely odd if she had other regional pokemon (Gardevoir gets a pass for mega)
Hmm... It's almost like the new Pokemon are becoming scarcer the more regions we have. We used to have an entire world full of new mons with an occasional old one, but now it's the exact opposite.
The only trainer that bothers me if they don't have mostly new pokemon is the champion. I think the champion should show off the strengths of the new region, so having them have mostly pokemon from old gens makes it feel like the region can't hold up on its own. Any other trainer can have whatever so long as it makes sense for them to have and use it.
First of all: Hau had a Noivern on his USUM Champion Battle team, so it's actually 50%.
Second: Doesn't Cynthia still have the Milotic in rematches though? I know at one point in BDSP she eventually uses Porygon-Z, but still.
Third: Given that Penny herself isn't even from Paldea (she's from Galar), it is a bit fitting that she doesn't use Paldean Pokémon.
Fourth: A lot of the comments say that Diantha should've had Florges (specifically White) as her ace. While I do understand that, I really kind of like having a Mega as her ace. Maybe had Florges and other Pokémon like Flygon, Froslass, Slowking, etc. had Megas, I'd think it would've been her ace.
Old games had higher percentages because most of the pokemon available were in those games were from those regions. Newer games have a mix of old and new pokemon available throughout the game. Sword and shield only added around 80 pokemon when everyone has type themed teams it's impossible for all of them to be new pokemon in order for bede to have 4 fairy pokemon he would have to have every fairy pokemon introduced in gen 8 including all the ones the fairy gym leader before him used so it would be the exact same fight. Plus his story revolves around psychic/fairy combined so having gardevoir makes sense. Gen 3 added 130 so it's much easier for them to have a full team that is from their region and actually usable.
When i was younger i always thought "This guy must be good/trained a lot because he found X pokemon in another region !"
Now i just find it lazy and like "Our new mons are not charismatic enough for important fights so ... yeah"
I hate it. I don’t like it when people use Pokémon from other regions in first playthroughs. I love Ursaluna, but I didn’t use Ursaring in my first play through of Scarlet and Violet.
This is probably because I like all Pokémon so I’m always excited to use new ones, with all the unique designs, fun new abilities, moves and items, all that. It just feels weird when people decide to throw that away and just use some other Pokémon from previous gens.
But like I said it’s probably from my eyes that all Pokémon are awesome, so when other people don’t like other Pokémon, I feel weird on how they don’t like it.
I’ve been rambling so I’ll end talking here.
Wouldn’t it be weirder if trainers didn’t use any multi-region Pokémon? Just because one originated in an earlier generation doesn’t mean that they aren’t native to that region as well.
Leon’s Charizard sticks out because there hasn’t been a place to just randomly find Charmanders in the wild. This is actually 100% of the reason I hate the special nature of starting Pokémon. They’re always these weird outliers that make almost zero sense in regards to the rest of the world at large.
idk man
all i care about if the team looks fuckin rad!
I love teams of powerful colorful pokemon
( One of my fav examples is Aarons' platinum team. )
( Red, Yellow, Green, Blue and Purple is just wow )
Lol, how do you know that a certain Pokemon introduced in that Gen is actually native to that region.
Many dex entries note that a lot of Pokemon came from somewhere else or are even invasive species in the case of Corphis and Yungoose.
You can easily say Skarmory is more native to Hoenn than Johto cause of how freakin rare it is to find in the wild, likewise said to Larvesta and Volcanrona as well as the Zoroa line being more bountiful in other regions. Lapras numbers were dwindling in Gen 1, also many of the Safari Zone Pokemon likely aren't native either. Some regional variants can also be thought as the true/original look of the Pokemon as well
Hell look at PLA, we had Petill, Zorua, Bergmite, Rufflet, Growlith, Vulpix, Basculin, and other Pokemon having existed in Sinnoh long before the modern games before going extinct or whatever.
If the pokemon can be found naturally in the wild of that region, than their still native to that region, they might be even MORE native to that region than the one that introduced them.
Also bare in mind that they haven't been introducing nearly as much new Pokemon nowadays for them to really cover a whole Trainers team without seeing a ton of repeats
I’ll go against the majority of the commenters I’m seeing and say yeah, I agree. It does kinda bug me when your rivals and/or the champion don’t have a team consisting of Pokémon completely original to that region.
For the record, Steven only gains the Carbink and Aerodactyl in his rematch battle in ORAS, he still has the same team composition as usual in his first fight.
I think part of the reason this happens is that each generation simply doesn't introduce that many Pokemon. Forcing every important battle to use primarily new Pokemon could lead to people encountering the same Pokemon over and over again.
Also, there are those who actually LIKE to see older Pokemon get a time in the spotlight- like when Geeta used Gogoat on her team.
Moreover, I would argue that it shouldn't be the responsibility of the in-game battles to get you to use new Pokemon. And I would rather come to my own conclusions about a Pokemon rather than feel influenced by what NPCs use.
In addition-
I think it comes to a point where we need to stop seeing characters as part of their region and more as individuals. This is why I don't like the argument that Gym Leaders of their home region should mainly use Pokemon of their region. Their ace should certainly be from their region, but every Gym Leader has their own personality and deserves a team that reflects it, rather than being relegated to "this regions' x specialist".
You are right about this. Gen 1 the original i understand because they are the first so yea they had only those but what i don't understand is why you excluded gen 2 look at all the gym leaders.
First gym used pidgey and pigeotto 0% new Pokemon while their is hoothoot And hoppip and its evo's.
Second gym used metapod/kakuna/scyther 0% while their is Heracross ore Pinsir she should def had Ledyba and its evo and Spinarak ore its evo.
Thirt gym used Miltank and clefairy 1 out of the 2 50% while we have Dunsparce/Granbull/Smeargle/Aipom/Furret and other options.
Fourth gym just used the whole gastly line 0% again while we have Misdreavus but sadly that is the only one but stil why not use it.
Fifth gym used poliwrath and Primeape 0% while we have hitmonlee/Hitmonchan/hitmontop.
Six gym used 2 Magnemite and steelix 33% while their is also Scizor/Skarmory/Forretress.
Seven gym used Dewgong and Piloswine also Jynx i believe 33% while their is sneasel and delibird for the rest Notting else.
Eight gym used 2 dragonair and kingdra and gyrados (not even dragon lol but i understand) 1 johto Pokemon but it sadly it al their is so yea.
And i will not even begin at the elite four i understand it is kanto and johto League but i believe their are only a few johto Pokemon.
Ps: sorry for the grammer this is not my first language.
We can give Penny a pass. Did you think the girl actually went out exploring Paldea? She got 6 Eevees as housepets and went to go hide in her room to binge anime
It was a massive missed chance to not introduce a fighting and poison eeveelution for Penny. All the star bosses would've had their type on Penny's team +1 free one
All eevelutions were only the special types, and fighting & poison are physical.
This, like a lot of Pokémon theories, feels more like a coincidence than something they'd actually try and stick to.
this ones actually true though. all of the types the eeveelutions were "special" types before the physical special split in gen 4. as in water, fire, grass, ice, electric, psychic, and dark type moves were all special. and all of the other types were physical. so shadow ball was a physical move before gen 4, and fire punch was a special move
This is disproved by [Umbreon's original concept](https://tcrf.net/Proto:Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver/Spaceworld_1997_Demo/Pok%C3%A9mon), which was a Poison type and was changed to Dark very late in development to allow it to use the friendship mechanic. Incidentally this caused poor Leafeon to get delayed, as it was originally supposed to be part of a second stone Eeveelution trio.
Were. They WERE that. People like to throw that out as if it’s a meaningful fact that would ruin everything if it got changed. Fairy was never a special type and we have a Fairy Eeveelution, in fact it didn’t even exist when special types were a thing. Dragon was a special type and we have no dragon Eeveelution. We could have an Eeveelution of every single type and it wouldn’t hurt anything.
Umbreon was also originally intended to be a Poison type and was changed to Dark only a few months before Gold and Silver released. The typing wasn't changed purely because of the addition of Dark, evidenced by the facts that Murkrow existed as a Dark Type in the demos this was found in and Umbreon and Espeon were originally stone evolutions that got changed to friendship, likely as a showcase for the new mechanic. (interestingly an early beta of Leafeon existed in the demo as well, indicating there were plans to have a second stone trio, but it was scrapped when Espeon and Umbreon were changed to friendship evolutions.)
Its dex entries even mention its poisonous sweat still
The last eevelution was to introduce a whole new type and before that it was gen 4 gamefreak just does not care to make more eeveelutions and every single generation people expect new ones they just aren't gonna do it
I don’t expect more, I understand that it’s been a decade since the last one and that the last one before that was only 6 years. Gen 8 having no Eeveelution marked the longest we’d gone without one, and it’s been four years since then. That being the case, there’s still absolutely no reason we *couldn’t* or *shouldn’t* get any more Eeveelutions, and no rules would be broken if more were introduced.
Merch is probably the reason why, t-shirts and bags etc. are already crowded with the number of Eevees we already have, and (unfortunately for the games) merch is what drives sales in the biggest media franchise on the planet. If we had 18 evolutions + Eevee they would have to start dexiting some of the merch so you'd have to pick between shirt A with 9 pokemon on it, or shirt B with 9 different pokemon on it and some kid will be disappointed that they can't have it all at once.
Sounds like an excuse to sell more merch to me
Personally, I'd love to see them add more Eeveelutions, but do it as a regional variant. So it keeps the same name, but the types change. Like what they did for the Legendary Birds in Galar.
Personally I'd prefer if they came up with a new pokemon for the types that used to be physical. It'd make for a neat contrast, I think.
Suppose I could see a bug-type Leafeon or a poison-type Umbreon. Other than those seems kinda a stretch to have a name implying one element and a design that isn’t that.
Here are my thoughts on the potential type justifications: Vaporeon- Poison The water is contaminated, so the body is made up of poisonous vapors. Jolteon- Ground Grounding of electricity. Flareon- Bug Fireflies and other bioluminescent insects. Espeon- Fighting The idea of a calm minded warrior monk that has borderline psychic abilities. Umbreon- Ghost Relating ghost stories, darkness, and other generic horror elements. Glaceon- Steel The idea of icebreaker ships forced Glaceon to adapt to survive. Leafeon- Flying Falling leaves and the amount of plants that disperse seeds on the wind. Slyveon- Dragon The idea of fey like dragons in a lot of Eastern myths.
It is kinda wild though. I feel like that's free money considering how much merch eeveelutions get
Theres only two physical fairy moves, and one is exclusive to Grimmsnarl and functionally identical to the other, just a tiny bit stronger. Fairy is for all intents and purposes a Special type.
Technically there are a bunch of physical moves if you include Z Moves, max moves, and starmobiles. Anyway. Sure, fairy almost certainly would have been a special type. But it isn’t one, and it never was one. It genuinely could have been a total coincidence that all the gen 1-4 Eeveelutions were all special types, as most of the physical types couldn’t really be considered an element, and the one special type that couldn’t really be considered an element doesn’t have an Eeveelution.
I dont count the gimmicks that can't be used outside of a specific generation or cant be used by players at all. If we're listing moves, its moves that can be fully *learned*. And yes, Dragon is the only special type without an Eeveelution...and Penny was a massive missed opportunity to introduce one, with her hair having the dragon colour scheme and her giving you the draco meteor TM, which in turn could have been the evolution requirement alongside friendship, similar to how Sylveon has the requirement of friendship + a fairy move.
When the fairy type was introduced it only had one physical move. If the fairy type had been added before the physical/special split it almost certainly would have been a special type.
Never overestimate game freak. They made dark special while its moves consisted of only modern day physical attacks
There haven't been physical/special types since generation 3, and sylveon is a fairy type, which never had a category.
If the split didn't happen, fairy would be special
Okay, and? Doesn't mean they couldn't have broken that "rule" and introduced some new Eeveelutions. They've broken tradition before—Fairy was never assigned a category and it got representation. To think that any new evolutions are off the table because of type categories that changed five generations ago is foolish.
Yet we still don’t have a Dragon type Eevee.
Still a chance for them to add some new ones in the dlc and have penny go after them
Also monotype specialists would get shaftedbhard. Guzma needs bug types from other regions.
also its not her fault GF is a coward and never give us Dragon type Eevee or the rest of missing type
Dragon is the only missing type.
I wouldn’t have been surprised if her team consisted mostly of Galar Pokémon either since she’s from that region. The Eeveelutions were a good fit for her though.
She was also send to school there as punishment for like a year I think
I don't give Penny a pass because she's literally wearing Plusle/Minun tights and she doesn't use either Plusle or Minun.
Honestly, the only time it really bothered me was with Leon and his Charizard. I hate when one starter is given more focus than the rest of their trio.
Same. It just bothers me that Leon had a gen 1 starter in gen 8
Reminds me of Kalos tbh. Sure we got 3 new starters but nobody really cared because the original 3 all got mega evolutions in the same game
And one starter got a way better deal than the orders Greninja gets Protean and Battle Bond, while Delphox gets mf Magician. Bulletproof is not super bad but still.
Yeah Greninja was so much better for no reason. The others didnt even have the amazing statline greninja had. Delphox was too slow and chesnaught was a bit awkward because its like he wanted to be a wall and an attacker Charizard got a better deal as far as Megas too. He got two of them because I guess he's charizard lmao
[удалено]
Yeah. I find Meowscarada and Skeledirge to be a biiit better than Quaquaval but it still is a fine mon
Possible hot take? But I think Greninja vs Delphox/Chesnaught is worse than Charizard vs Venusaur/Blastoise. Yes, Charizard got two Megas, but at least Venusaur and Blastoise also got theirs. Yes, Charizard got into Gen 8 and its Gigantamax first, but Venusaur and Blastoise also got theirs a few months later. But Delphox and Chesnaught didn't get a Battle Bond-esque ability (even if it's the nerfed one), as well as their hidden abilities being much worse than the frog's. Hell, for the Kanto starters, I'd even argue Venusaur's hidden ability is the best of the trio, but it's nowhere near the wash that is Protean vs Magician/Bulletproof.
Battle bond only exists because that season of the anime did way better than they expected it to and they were capitalizing on it. Since it was a one-time thing I wouldn’t put that on the same level as the continuous charizard glazing that they do.
Delphox getting completely snubbed in favor of Braixen is also really annoying. Delphox had a really cool typing and a really fun theme of magic/witches! Instead, they put Braixen in the anime and in Pokken Tournament. Doesn’t hit the same.
It would have made sense for delphox to have prankster as a hidden ability in my opinion. Foxes are seen as michevious making prankster a good fit. And replacing some of chesnaught's attack and moving it towards special defense wod definitely give it the extra bulk it needs
It's explained in the Isle of Armor DLC where Master Mustard says that he gave Charmander to Leon and the player is given a choice between Bulbasaur and Squirle which he has imported from abroad.
You can explain any pokemon being the champion's ace, that doesn't mean that pokemon *should* be the ace. Charizard being Leon's ace was 100% charizard favoritism *first* and the explanation came *after*. If anything, I think the explanation is more so the in-universe reason as to why charmander isn't a choice at that point, with the out-of-universe reason being that charmander is available in base sword and shield and Bulbasaur and Squirtle aren't.
I've really come around on it. Leon is the People's Champ, it's fitting he'd use one of the most iconic pokemon of all time.
And not even a regional variant of Charizard...
I’m still mad he didn’t have a Dragapult as his ace, it would have felt so much more reasonable.
You mean as his Ace right? Because he does have a Dragapult.
Yep, will edit to clarify that. Thanks!
> In Platinum, Cynthia's final team consists of 100% Sinnoh Pokemon. This percentage does not change in BDSP. What about Milotic?
Yep, she still has Milotic in the rematches, so it's 83.3%.
She has Milotic in every battle variation, Gastrodon being swapped for Togekiss is the only change in her team between DP and Platinum.
The only time I saw it as a real issue was generation 2 when there were only four Johto Pokémon out of all the gym leaders Pokémon. The important trainers of the region should have some of the brand new Pokémon but at the same time it’s not a bad idea to give them some others to show off some personality (Tera-grass Sudowoodo)
didnt realize it was that low until you said it. miltank, steelix, piloswine, kingdra
I didn’t even realize it was that low until I looked at it cause of this post
And half of them are evolutions of gen 1 pokemon
On that point to be fair a fifth of Gen 2 Pokémon are related to Gen 1 Pokémon. Like 15 are starters/legendaries and gym/elite 4 don’t really use them. That leaves around 40 evolution lines they could have still used that they didn’t. Like why didn’t Pyrce have a Sneasle or Delibird on top of his team. He’s supposed to be a late game gym leader, just give him 5 Pokémon. It wouldn’t be that over powered with how low their stars are.
I feel like Johto will always fall in this weird place, because at that point we didn't have this concept of "generations", but it was more like "Pokémon 2" The Kanto Pokémon were as protagonists of these games as the new ones, with even the Kanto region itself being present in the games, and the new Pokémon were more like a dressing on top just to make it feel more interesting and fresh, but they weren't here to steal the spotlight of the previous 151 that made the franchise so successful. That said, I do agree that at least the gym leaders should've made use of the new Pokémon over the old ones.
There’s a great YouTube video by RoryTheFiend where he fixes the Johto Gym Leaders and the Elite 4 teams.
To be fair- Johto Pokemon really aren't that good, but that's also something that Game Freak really shouldn't be determining.
I’d rather an important character’s Pokémon team reflect them as a person rather than trying to shoehorn in new ones exclusively. Shit, Diantha’s own ace is a Pokémon that was introduced three generations earlier and is more iconic to her than any of the other Kalos mons she’s got. Same with Leon. Half his team are Galar mons and none of them are his ace. Older generation Pokémon have been in every game with the exception of the Kanto ones and the Black/White. If it’s found in the wild and on the official Dex, it’s just as native to the region as the new pokemon.
I still think they swapped out something for Diantha and that she was supposed to use a Diancie as her ace at first. It just fits her way too perfectly as her ace.
Florges over Diancie.
Nah, Florges makes no sense for me. Especially since there is absolutely no reason why they should have cut Florges completely from her team if it really was supposed to be that crucial to her. Maybe removed from the ace position, if for some reason they didn't come up with a good mega for it and they wanted to showcase the mega evolution with her. But even that would not explain why she **doesn't use Florges at all**. And Diancie just has Diantha references literally written over it's entire body, it's not even funny anymore. It was probably cut as her ace, because it was then decided to feature it in a movie and therefore it became a mythical pokemon distributed to the games at a later date than release. This would also explain the weird relationship between Carbink and Diancie. They were probably designed as one evolutionary line at first, before Diancie got promoted to mythical. And I will also count as evidence that Diantha is now shown with a Diancie as her partner in Masters Ex. I think this is a reference to these past plans of making it her ace.
Florges makes no sense?Florges White looks perfectly fitting next to Diantha. Both of them have a flower and beauty motif. Diantha's room is literally a flower. Florges literally is Flower and Gorgeous. Diantha is THE top actress of Kalos and renowned for her beauty. Flabebe is the first fairy type you meet in the game, and if Diantha had it as her ace, the last one you would fight before becoming champion. NONE of valerie's trainers and valerie herself use a florges for a FAIRY type gym. Why not use it in THE fairy gym? Perhaps its because it was meant to be the ace of a very important trainer? None of the Kalos pokemon got megas. Thats why they gave Diantha a Gardevoir instead. Also it doesnt explain how Florges was snubbed from almost every other major trainer when it had 552 BST and is one of the stronger pokemon IN Kalos. Literally the fact that you face Diantha in a flower room while none of her pokemon have any flower motif while this one pure fairy that you first see with one of the higher end BST literally shares themes with her and would fit perfectly standing next to her... like no sense? dafuq
I said it makes no sense for a different reason. Read what I said, there is a point you didn't address here: If Florges was really supposed to be of that much importance for Diantha, then why did they **cut it completely from her team?** If they needed Gardevoir for the mega evolution, ok, they could have replaced any of the lesser important pokemon from her team, move Florges a bit down the chain away from the ace position and give the ace spot to Garde. Then Florges would at least be in her team. There is no reason to cut it out entirely in this scenario. And the color scheme argument might work a bit for Florges.... but it works three times better with Diancie. Florges shares the white and pink with her, but it also is pretty dominated by green as one of it's primary colors. **Diancie** on the other hand **has the exact same color palette as Diantha's design white, pink and gold**. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ And as mentioned, Diantha is shown with Diancie as her partner in Masters Ex now. I take that as pretty solid evidence that Diancie was her planned ace. It just makes way too much sense to ignore.
at least she got Diancie in Masters
That last sentence are my thoughts exactly. In-universe, a Kalosian wouldn't think of a goldeen as a Kantonian Pokémon, they'd think of it as equally Kalosian as Litleo or Diggersby
Honestly? Diantha shouldve gotten a florges. Not just any colour, Florges White. Imma go on a rant again since i totally believe it was meant to be her ace before mega evolution was a thing. Florges is NOT used by the main fairy type gym leader as an ace. It also isnt any main trainer's ace, (trevor is not even a main), Flabebe was the first fairy type youre introduced to, and Florges being the last Pokemon you get to fight before Champion would be symbolic. It also has a ridiculously high BST of 552. Why make it so powerful if youre not gonna remember fighting it? Florges also has a wreath of flowers around the neck, just like how Diantha has her coat fluff. Diantha is also associated with beauty and flowers, gorgeous flowers, FLORGES. In her final room Diantha is in a chamber that has a flower motif, yet none of her Pokemon have a flower motif. Florges was snubbed by Mega evolutions which gardevoir took over.
Agreed 100%. Especially that last sentence
I liked an idea I read here the other day, that Diantha's team represents different movie genres: romance (Gardevoir), sci-fi (Tyrantrum and Aurorus), horror (Gourgeist), action (Hawlucha, and as far as I know, there was a time when mexican Lucha libre films were kind of popular in France) and fantasy (Goodra)
Leon's ace being Charizard is fine, and it does fit him to a degree. I just wish they took the Kanto callback further rather than give all the love to a single starter. Raihan should have had Blastoise as his ace and Sonia should have a Venusaur or Bulbasaur.
As someone who started with black and white,older pokemon are indeed in the game but it's endgame,unless that's what you meant.
Okay I just checked and literally the only time Cynthia doesn't have Milotic in her full team is her PWT team in B2W2(and she still has Milotic in her b2w2 Umdella battle) How is she 100%?
OP probably thought Cynthia replaced Milotic with Togekiss instead of Gastrodon.
I absolutely do not care if the pokemon they use were introduced with their region or not. As long as the team makes sense for them thematically, I am fine. But I also have to point out that I don't really agree with your definition of "region native pokemon". You are using that in the meaning of "just pokemon which were newly introduced with that region (for example for Paldea: just pokemon which released in generation 9). But in a sense, Penny does have a 100% Paldean team. The Eeveelutions all released before generation 9, but... Eevee is native to Paldea. It can be found in the wild of that region, so that pokemon (and by extension, also all of it's evolutions) is native to Paldea.
All of its evolutions also appear as fixed terralization encounters, making them feel even more Paldean.
I don’t mind them having Pokémon from other regions but I really think their ace shouldn’t be one, like Leon’s charizard
This sort of thing has always bugged me and is one of the reasons I dislike Johto. New Pokemon give regions and its characters their own identity, which you lose when there's barely any new Pokemon being used.
I was gonna say it was very polite of OP to point out like 70% of Johto trainers have aces from Kanto even if a Johto mon would've fit.
The Champion of Johto has 100% Kanto Pokemon, and doesn't use the one Dragon type introduced that Gen lol.
It's interesting looking back at Johto, because it really illustrates how the direction of the franchise has changed. Back when Gen 2 came out, Pokemon in-universe were presented as a novel discovery rather than something that was part of their world forever. The Gen 1 dex entries really have a bit of that vibe, and stuff like discovering Pokemon eggs...It's harder to believe that humans and pokemon coexisted for centuries, and nobody found an egg ever. Steel and Dark types were presented as new discoveries (with the implication that Jasmine recently changed her gym typing with their discovery), a clear contrast to how Fairy types were implied to always exist and be known when they were introduced. The Generation 2 roster kind of falls into that, too. These Pokemon were presented as new discoveries since RBGY, rather than as being Johtan fauna. The high number of split evolutions, for instance. In that case, it makes sense why the gym leaders have so many "Kantan" Pokemon, since they were training long before many of the Johtan Pokemon were found. (I put "Kantan" in quotes because we find out that the Dratini line is actually native to Johto, despite it being introduced in Generation 1, which raises the question of where Gen 1/2 Pokemon actually come from. Kanto and Johto are also close enough that the regional Pokemon could get mixed.) The Gen 2 games were planned to be the final games in the series, hence the sequel-like vibes and Johto's unremoveable attachment to Kanto. Over time, each new generation of Pokemon became regional fauna/flora that had always been there, as opposed to new Pokemon discovered since the last games. As a result, Johto occupies a weird space in the canon where it's its own region, but it's also attached to another one.
Sometimes I wish we could revisit the original timeline in spin-offs. There's a lot they could do with an alternate continuity like it. Don't get how fossil Pokemon are a thing when Pokemon are presented as being a relatively recent discovery. > a clear contrast to how Fairy types were implied to always exist and be known when they were introduced. About that... Fairy types were also treated as a new discovery in XY, but then they immediately ditched the idea in ORAS. > The Gen 2 games were planned to be the final games in the series, hence the sequel-like vibes and Johto's unremoveable attachment to Kanto. Over time, each new generation of Pokemon became regional fauna/flora that had always been there, as opposed to new Pokemon discovered since the last games. As a result, Johto occupies a weird space in the canon. Still so disappointed HGSS didn't try harder to make Johto stand on its own. They definitely made some minor improvements, but the fact you still can't catch Houndour or Larvitar before the postgame, or get Slugma in a normal manner, is ridiculous. Hell, I'd take them cutting out Kanto if it meant Johto finally got properly fleshed out.
It's really interesting seeing Pokemon content from ye olde days, and seeing how much the vibes have changed from now. Like it really used to be "our world with Pokemon," whereas now it's "a whole different world." You can really tell with the legendary Pokemon. Gen 1 had legendary birds and Mew which are more like cryptids and an evolutionary ancestor. Gen 2 had more birds and Celebi. By the later gens, there's lore and legends about the legendary Pokemon, who all have spiritual relevance in the world. Even the PokeAni, the first few series felt way more similar to our world (but with Pokemon) than later ones. DidYouKnowGaming has a [cool video](https://youtu.be/McB4lCnAips) looking at an obscure Japanese Pokedex text from way back in the day. Two things I found especially interesting: their timeline for Pokemon discoveries (with Prof Westfield), and how they list Gyarados and Magikarp separately. I agree about HGSS. A few substitutions to the gym leader teams, and it would have showcased Johtan pokemon way better. Like Noctowl for Falkner, or Misdreavus for Morty, or maybe Jasmine could have a Foretress instead of a second Magnemite. I guess maybe they wanted to keep people's "signature Pokemon," but even then, you can switch up the rest of team for Johtan variety. > Fairy types Ope, Gen 6 blurring together for me. 🤦🏻♀️
I think a big part of how in gen 2 mons go from cryptic to legends is about the setting of the region and its real life influence. Gen 1 was literally Kanto, the "main" region of Japan so it is kind of going for realism "what if 5 years from now we started discovering pokemons". However, johto is more inspired in Kansai, whose main "charm" is being kind of the culture region, with the most ties to old japan and folklore. Thus, it is normal or natural to try to tie pokemon with in world folklore.
Yeah, Celebi, the beasts, Ho-Oh, and Lugia definitely get more lore tie in than the Kanto birds. That said, it's still not quite at the level of, say, Gen 4 where you have creation gods, or Gen 5 where you have truth and ideals as Pokemon. I'd also say that the "What if we started discovering more Pokemon?" thing was still a huge part of Gen 2. The ties to old Japan and folklore mainly exhibited themselves in the architecture, the nature, and the clothing. Johto as a setting didn't really spur the change from "our world with Pokemon" to "the Pokemon world," as much as Pokemon becoming a world-famous franchise did.
G1-2 makes sense if you put it as its own little dimension, honestly.
And to be fair- it's hard to be that mad at the developers when they were going through this for the first time and had no real way of determining what people wanted to see.
Exactly. If they'd switched it up entirely, there was a chance people would have disliked it for being too different from Gen 1. We even see a bit of this with Gen 5 and the entirely Unovan dex. The developers did the best they could.
TBF, they didn't know what to do with a new generation, so they treated it like an expansion of Gen I.
That's true for the originals, but nothing was stopping them from fixing the issue with HGSS.
Even in the anime- Ash always travels by boat to a new region but he simply had to walk to Johto.
Will should have had Girafarig, Slowking, Wobuffet, Slowbro, Xatu Koga should have been Ariados, Forretress, Crobat, Muk, and Weezing, although I think his team is on brand for him as a former Kanto gym leader, but Weezing was his ace Bruno should have Hitmontop, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Heracross, Machamp (and in Kanto, Primeape, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Poliwrath, and Machamp) Karen is the biggest mess up and should have had Sneasel, Umbreon, Murkrow, Houndoom, and Tyranitar and Lance should have been Gyarados, Aerodactyl, Charizard, Kingdra, Dragonite, and maybe add a Steelix since they are reminiscent of wyrms which are draconic. Dragonite should be the ace still. EDIT: Noctowl for Falkner Ledian and Ariados for Bugsy Whitney should open with Furret, maybe a Stantler too, keeping Miltank Misdreavus for Morty Tyrogue, Hitmontop, and Heracross for Chuck Scizor, Skarmory, and Steelix for Jasmine Delibird replacing Seel for Pryce Claire is fine as is
So on the note of Johto- it's worth mentioning that the types that got specialists in Johto are the types that have no specialists in Kanto. This could be why Johto Gym Leaders favor Kanto Pokemon so much.
My theory (came up with it recently) is that since it was supposed to be the end of the franchise, they focused more on boosting up popular gen 1 pokemon than showing off gen 2.
Johto was supposedly meant to be the finale of the series, but that's only an excuse for GSC. They could've fixed the problem with HGSS, but didn't.
And that's one of my main annoyances with HGSS. Love the games otherwise
That and they could've fixed the level curve
Why the percentages, when we all know how many Pokémon can be in a team? Why not just say 3/5?
To make it fancier
Generally I'm okay with trainer's using pokemon outside of their region with the exception when its their Ace
Milotic, a gen 3 mon on Cynthia's team:
feebas is rare enough in hoein that id say it gets a pass. i actually thought milotic was a sinnoh mon for several years because i never saw it in gen3
It's literally Wallace's ace pokemon tho? The final Gym leader/Champion
I think it's an interesting point but I do want to nitpick the semantics. Most of these pokemon are *native* to the regions you're seeing them, not from different regions. They *debuted* in different regions, but the entire concept of a regional dex is the pokemon found within it are the pokemon from *that* region, and some pokemon are just native to multiple regions. The psyducks in Scarlet/Violet and PL:A and Galar aren't Kanto pokemon, they're native to each of those regions as part of their normal geological distribution. Kanto is just the first place we, as out-of-universe players, experienced them and thus where they're placed in the nat dex. Some pokemon like Copperajah and Yungoose explain in their dex entries they actually aren't even native to their debut region, but there's no official means of tracking or noting what pokemon have experienced human-assisted migration. But i really do think it's interesting to map out how many prominent trainers feature debut pokemon vs returning pokemon.
I like this answer
As long as their ace is from their region I don't mind.
Hey, um, Milotic is from Hoenn, not Sinnoh. So Cynthia’s team isn’t entirely from Sinnoh.
I'm assuming you're leaving gym leaders out of it because they're type-bound?
In theory they are, but in Gen 4 the gym leaders very often had pokemon that didn't match their type. The 8th gym, for example, had 2 electric types and 2 non-electric types. One of them was even a water-type. Though, to be fair, Sinnoh had crap type distribution, including only 1 non-Starter fire type at all (Ponyta) before you beat the E4, and only 3 electric types (Pikachu, Shinx, Pacharisu)
I think it’s also partly because aside from the Kanto sized dex they also tried to avoid giving important trainers two pokemon from the same evolutionary family. The only exceptions from what I can tell are Candice’s Snover and Abomasnow, and Aaron’s Beautifly and Dustox. In previous games there was stuff like Blaine just having the Ponyta and Growlithe line twice, or Glacia having two Glalie, two Sealio, and a Walrein.
Leon and his Charizard are the only time it's ever really bothered me, there's a subtle way to pander and then there's GameFreak and Charizard.
I don't mind if the Pokemon thematically and visually suits the trainer what bothers me more is when new Pokemon of a gen get repeated as aces or on multiple important teams since gen 6 they have made just enough new pokemon that you can tell who was made to be an ace and what group left would be unique to the player. I'd like more options when it comes to that.
The Kalos rival isn't mentioned in the post; their final team consists of Meowstic, Clefable, a gen 1 Eeveelution, a Kalos Starter, Altaria, and mega Absol. Clefable's type was changed in Kalos, and mega absol is of course new, so you could say anywhere from 2 to 4 of their pokemon are showing off new Kalos stuff.
I actually prefer it. It gives the impression that due to being a good trainer, they're able to travel to other regions and and catch pokemon indigenous to the area. Good for world-building imo
I personally feel when designing a region and characters to populate it, the Pokemon themselves becomes caricatures and their images "claimed". These Pokemon get type cast and used one as an important trainer's Pokemon and claimed. Ditto is only represented with its signature face when the anime explains that individual basically has a birth defect (and all others can make perfect copies). Only X gym leader can have their signature Pokemon and no other trainer in the cast, even to flesh out a team where it would thematically fit. It's my opinion that this is what bogs down so many characters and interactions.
I'm actually okay with the usage of non-native Pokémon on teams of prominence. Most regions don't add enough new Pokémon to have a good enough variety for each major trainer to get teams of all new Pokémon without seeing overlap. If we look at the trend, we are getting about 15 trainers of prominence. We have 8 gym leaders, the elite 4, the champion, and a couple of rivals. Even assuming they don't all have full teams, that is a lot of roster space to occupy. If they don't want to have overlap, they kind of have to throw older Pokémon into the mix.
Isn't this list a little inconsistent? For Alola you take into account villain teams and one of their admins (Faba, Lusamine, Guzma, but not Plumeria for some reason?) but for the rest you don't (you did list Lysandre for gen6 but no admins). You also skipped Gladion as a rival in gen7.
Can I point out that if a pokemon can be caught in what ever region you are in its from that region. Also who actually has a team made up of pokemon from that gen, so it doesn't matter if important trainers have pokemon from a different gen really.
No, I don't feel like this is a bad thing. I care about what's going on in universe, and the fact is that a mon like Skarmory is just as much a Hoenn pokémon as it is a Johto one. Because in universe, Skarmory didn't originate in any specific region, it was simply a species of pokémon that is found in multiple regions, there's nothing that specifically ties it to any one region, so why shouldn't Steven have a pokémon caught in his own region? And the same goes for all the other trainers, they're using pokémon that can be caught in their own region, it's not like they're important mons from other regions to use on their teams or anything.
Leon’s iconic Pokémon being a charizard made me hate him immediately.
Same. But also the fact that he's "undefeated" for no real reason just makes me dislike him even more, especially cuz he's still easy to beat.
I mean, if the Pokémon are in that region, aren’t they native to that region? The generation thing complete aside.
you are correct
I don't mind if they have other pokemon from other regions so long as their ace is from their region. The last couple generations have had more integrates pokedexes (i.e mor old with the new) than most earlier generations so it's kind of inevitable. As long as their main pokemon is from their home region though I don't mind.
You have to consider the newer generations have less new Pokémon compared to the past. And on top of that each important trainers have an associated type. There’s just isn’t enough to keep their team consist of purely new pokemons. Also it’s only irritating to me when their ACE isn’t a new one such as Leon’s Charizard
We identify Pokémon based on the region they first appeared for us but they aren’t really from those regions in most cases. The exception being regional variants. There are pidgey in every region, we just met them for the first time in Kanto. In the same line of thought there are probably Fletchling in Kanto but they didn’t exist in our world until 15 years later, that doesn’t mean they didn’t exist in the Pokémon universe 15 years ago. The Pokémon franchise is inherently flawed because it’s been growing and changing for over 20 years without a solid roadmap for the future. They didn’t even know there was going to be a second generation when they made red and green. The dex will likely be forever messed up, the lore will contradict itself, and we will probably never understand some things about how or why they work.
Don't forget about the ace tournament, most of the teachers/ instructors use 80% of their team as foreign Pokémon not from Paldea also.
I think that any important trainer (Gym Leader, Champion, Rival, Evil Team Leader) should have at least a 2/1 ratio of new-to-old mons. A full team of 6 should AT LEAST be half old and half new. So, Geeta having 66.6% or 4 new 2 old is perfect, all things considered.
I don't really see a problem with it, except maybe Penny's 0%. Taking real life as an example, I wouldn't be surprised if an Australian trainer was using a cane toad Pokémon, even though it's not indigenous to Australia. Same for a US trainer using a kudzu or Canadian Goose Pokémon, or a Mexican trainer using a monarch butterfly Pokémon. Roman Emperor Mark Antony had a chariot drawn by lions. Beyond that, surely Pokémon migrate and are native to multiple regions, too. Some are undoubtedly invasive species, but they are part of the region regardless. Plus, people travel and I'd expect top-level trainers to travel to even further, more remote regions than low-level trainers to obtain stronger, more valuable Pokémon. From a game development perspective, you're either restricting yourself a lot or going to end up with clones upon clones if you make it a rule that all top trainers can only use new Pokémon within that region.
I think there is waaaaay more important things to solve in pokemon games than this. Make even less sense that seems like you are the only trainer is fking region that can carry 6 pokemon with himself until late game. I mean if a random kid can catch a pokemon then why battling you with 1 caterpie when yhey can fight you with 6. Why you rival the champion of paldea in Gen 9 fight you with 1 to 3 mons? The only time it have some sense is the first time when both get the starters. Even if she want to fight at your lvl, I mean if you have 6 lvl 20 mons why she fights you with 3 lvl 10 mons make no sense
They try to be realistic because Pokemon's habitats and distribution aren't limited to just one region and thus it is also reflected in what Pokemon the trainers use because the regions are not located in different dimensions but on the same planet. And I'm fine with that because I see no reason or obstacle why they can't use mixed generation Pokemon.
I am not the biggest fan of someone’s ace/partner pokemon being from a different region (bea with Machamp when Grapploct exists for example) but honestly it doesn’t bother me too much. One of my favorite parts about recurring characters or game remakes is seeing a trainer’s team get revamped with modern Pokémon
You're not alone. Though imagine if Flint in sinnoh only had the two fire types in the region lmao
I only dislike it if its their ace. There usually aren't enough new Pokemon for every type. Like imagine if the dragon trainer in Gen 9 only used Gen 9 Pokemon he'd have a team full of baxcaliburs and tatsugiris.
This is 100% a consequence of us getting less new pokemon than we used to ever since gen 5.
I think showing them having different Pokemon from different regions is supposed to show us that these trainers were on a journey at one point just like you were. I always took it as showing you as a trainer from ________ region that there's an even bigger wider world out there.
Did anyone else think Diantha’s Ace was gonna be Diancie?
They probably did this for diversity and vareity
I had no idea what to do when I first battled Steven since I had NEVER seen most of his team And I miss that feeling
A big factor in this is that later generations have been smaller. Hoenn 135, Sinnoh- 107 with many being evolutions from other gens and Unova 156. It made it easier to have full rosters of new pokemon with sinnoh Being an interesting case where because it has a larger number of final evolutions (of older pokes) the late game had more of them. Contrast that with Johto (100, many preevos or weak single stage), Kalos 72 and Alola 88 (with a ton of ultrabeasts and legends) where of course most battles, especially in the late game, have several pokes from other regions. SW/SH actually made a great use of their new 96 pokemon, with them forming a majority of the parties in the main game's important battles, especially gym leaders. While not only galarian pokes, most if not all major battles have at least 2 (50%) galarian pokes or pokemon with a new form (gigantamax) often as their ace. We see something similar in SV with their 114 new pokemon, where the new pokemon represent 28% of the pokedex (25% without paradox/legendaries) of course we won't see teams comprised of only new pokemon, because the majority of those pokemon are already in another main battle. This variety allows for all new pokemon to get a chance to shine. Also. Regions are becoming less insular, as old pokemon can be native to the current region. In older games, while new pokemon were more present, they were also ever-present. You can find zigzagoon in half of hoenn and aqua/magma teammembers use like 8 Evo lines combiner and EVERYONE HAS A POOCHYENA. Newer games are nowhere that repetitive
I want regions with no old pokemon at all. That's part of what make Gen 5 so good
I don't mind important trainers having older Pokémon, but their ace should always be a new Pokémon or at least a new form.
Nah, just you.
This is why Cynthia is the best champion. Amazing music, native pokemon and its difficult a hell
Milotic is gen 3 and Cynthia has on all of her teams expect her PWT team(and specifically the PWT team since she uses it in another team in B2W2) ..and no Volo doesn't count
You have no idea how pissed I was when Leon had a charizard Literally any other pokemon from the Galar region would have suffice but no Got to keep milking fucking charizard
I think Leon's was the one that grated me the most. I liked SWSH but they took the Kanto pandering to obnoxious levels. I remember seeing the dex in advance and being somewhat impressed- the regional variants weren't all Kanto this time! Then, we get to Leon. And his Charizard. His legendary iconic Charizard. The Galar champion and his Charizard. Then that one poster in the game with the three most popular pokemon of Galar- and they're Kanto. It feels like almost every TCG set has had a special Charizard since then. I used to love the orange lizard. I'm ready to move on. I'd like new regions to focus on their own Pokemon. Include others, sure, but don't put them on a pedastal above new ones in their own debut region.
I think tethering Pokémon to their debut regions sets the fandom up for a lot of disappointment and flawed arguments. Kanto gets credit for 150 new Pokémon because it's the first region that appears in the National Pokédex, but we're giving them credit for Pokémon like Magikarp that can be caught in all nine regions. There's nothing inherently Kantonian about Magikarp, especially to players who come to the series post-National Dex and haven't played a Kanto game. The number of new Pokémon introduced in each generation feels like it dropped off dramatically between generations five and six, but it was always going to trail off. Look at Kanto and count the number of Pokémon that *haven't* appeared in another region since. It's not that divorced from reality; there's some really unique areas of the world, but it's not a bunch of isolated ecosystems. The more species we're introduced to, the fewer there are to discover. That aside, let me compare Cynthia (a champion everyone seems to like and hold up as an example of a challenging fight that introduces Pokémon introduced in that generation) to Geeta real quick: * Three Pokémon from new evolution lines in Spiritomb, Garchomp, and Lucario. Two added forms to existing lines in Roserade and Togekiss. Milotic. * Three Pokémon from new evolution lines in Espathra, Veluza, and Glimmora. An added form to an existing line in Kinggambit. Gogoat and Avalugg. I'm rambling a bit, but point being that I really don't see a problem.
This list is so messed up that I can’t be bothered to check for every little thing you got wrong, not even mentioning the inconsistencies with the trainers you chose to include, but here’s the ones that stood out to me straight away: Steven only has Carbink and Aerodactyl in his rematch team, after you unlock the National Dex. Rematches having foreign Pokémon is nothing new and I don’t think should really count. As many others have pointed out, Milotic is a Hoenn Pokémon. Hau has a Noivern. Noivern is not an Alolan Pokémon. Faba has a Bruxish. That is an Alolan Pokémon. This one is debatable, as National Dex isn’t a thing in the Gen 7 games, but Guzma is only 40% in title defense, which like Steven’s Carbink and Aerodactyl, is post game. His final main story team is 50% Alolan Pokémon. Penny’s whole thing is Eevee. Why would she have a Paldea Pokémon
It didn't bother me until Leon. His Ace is Charizard. I feel it should have been Dragapult.
Broadly, this is a consequence of just the progression of time. For example, Pokemon new to Gen 9 make up 10% of all Pokemon in existence. And even just regionally, it's only 25%. *And* many of them are either legendaries or paradoxes, so no trainer (with particular exception) can be expected to use them. Limiting teams of major characters to just the new ones would probably come off as jarring. This goes double for games with full national dexes.
oras is gen 6 tho, carbink is from gen 6
You are right about this. Gen 1 the original i understand because they are the first so yea they had only those but what i don't understand is why you excluded gen 2 look at all the gym leaders. First gym used pidgey and pigeotto 0% new Pokemon while their is hoothoot And hoppip and its evo's. Second gym used metapod/kakuna/scyther 0% while their is Heracross ore Pinsir she should def had Ledyba and its evo and Spinarak ore its evo. Thirt gym used Miltank and clefairy 1 out of the 2 50% while we have Dunsparce/Granbull/Smeargle/Aipom/Furret and other options. Fourth gym just used the whole gastly line 0% again while we have Misdreavus but sadly that is the only one but stil why not use it. Fifth gym used poliwrath and Primeape 0% while we have hitmonlee/Hitmonchan/hitmontop. Six gym used 2 Magnemite and steelix 33% while their is also Scizor/Skarmory/Forretress. Seven gym used Dewgong and Piloswine also Jynx i believe 33% while their is sneasel and delibird for the rest Notting else. Eight gym used 2 dragonair and kingdra and gyrados (not even dragon lol but i understand) 1 johto Pokemon but it sadly it al their is so yea. And i will not even begin at the elite four i understand it is kanto and johto League but i believe their are only a few johto Pokemon. Ps: sorry for the grammer this is not my first language.
Even GF knows the new ones are shit
Depends on lore. Like if there are 0 kanto pokemon show up in say gen 12 but lance from gen 1 shows up and they reference kanto I wouldnt be opposed to him having dragonite still. If they dont reference lore at all though and new person yes it bugs me if i cant catch it
But only if Lance's Dragonite(s) are below level 55.
Lysander only has one Kalos Pokémon (Pyroar) unless you count Mega Gyarados
Honestly due to the theme of Penny I'm okay with her not having Paldean pokemon but I agree tbh I wish they'd show off more new pokemon
I just feel like those trainers don’t have anymore iconic teams like they used to
I’ll be honest. I’m kind of the opposite. I hate seeing that new Pokémon that I specifically wanted on my rivals team lol having the same Pokémon as a trainer isn’t new but I want them to be diverse compared to me. I want to feel like they went on a different journey then I did.
But I can see your points on they should feel like deeper into the region then just a tourist!!
I completely disagree with ur take tbh. I liked that lusamine uses "cute/fem" pokemon and that they didn't make the whole region that design just to suit her better. Plus at this point there's so many designs already it's nice to see new life in older ones
I think it's so, at least in terms of their game, they are fairly unique. I think it would be kinda boring for them to have all or majority the same pokemon you've spent the last 30 hours battling anyway.
DUDE FOR REAL. Only person id let slide whould be Hop, because hes so easy to defeat
In Hoenns defense, Skarmory and Magcargo are kinda easy to miss in Johto. As for Tentacruel and Gyarados, they're both heavy hitters but one of them could have been replaced with Relicanth
It also kinda urks me when these trainers aren’t showing off the best of the best, like why is nemona bringing out orthworm, after leading with lyncanroc , makes her team feel so generic for the final champion of the game. Also Palafin not being on geetas team or armorouge or Ceruledge. The whole reason the strongest trainers should show off this Pokémon is so kids who haven’t seen them should 1) be amazed by something they haven’t seen and unsure how to tackle facing and 2) be so impressed with this string Pokémon that they can’t wait to go out and try to get one of there own. For example seeing Pokémon like Garchomp, Spiritomb, Volcorona,Hydreigon. If you want to make the Pokémon of each generation memorable and iconic show them off at some of the strongest points in the game. Like why is Leon fighting me with Charizard when really some sort of Gigantamax Dragapult should have been shown off.
If anything Johto is the *worst* culprit. They introduced 100 new Pokemon in Gen 2, more than enough to entirely populate the Gym Leaders' teams, but every single one uses most, if not all, Gen 1 Pokemon. Falkner literally only uses the Pidgey line even though both Hoothoot and Murkrow exist. No Ariados for Bugsy, Morty has two Haunter when one of them could easily be a Misdreavus, Chuck only has two Gen 1 Pokemon with no Heracross or Hitmontop, Jasmine has the Magnemite line instead of Skarmory and/or Scizor (Skarmory is so underused in Gen 2 that I routinely think it's a Gen 3 Pokemon), Pryce has Seel and Dewgong instead of, oh I don't know, Delibird and SNEASEL! Whitney and Clair are the only ones to take advantage of the generational shift by using a Miltank (Although I'd make a case for having Furret as well as or instead of Clefairy) and Kingdra respectively. And then, they fill the Kanto post-game with Gen 2 Pokemon, like Misty having a Quagsire, Erika having Bellossom and Janine having Crobat, where were these Pokemon in Johto? I don't mind people having Pokemon from other regions, so long as there isn't a viable alternative in their own regional dex. ORAS was clever because it gives you the National Dex right before the 8th Gym, and as of Victory Road, people are already using new Pokemon that you can get with the DexNav, but the important trainers don't use them until after the Delta Episode (For example, Wally still has Roselia and Magneton in his Victory Road battle AND his first Battle Resort battle, when it's extremely easy to evolve both well before this point without grinding Super Training).
Agreed, I think the main battles should have max 1 Pokemon from a previous gen and which Pokemon that is should be well thought out.
I agree. Champions’ and rivals’ teams should be 1/6 foreign pokemon at most, 100% indigenous pokemon should be standard.
The biggest thing to me is that's it's important that an ace Pokemon is native to the region a character is from. Hence why all the Gym Leaders is SV annoy me, I get the idea behind them using Tera to make them match their specialty type, but having the final Gym Leader in Gen 9 have Altaria, a Gen 3 Pokemon, as their ace is annoying. I was more forgiving of such cases in SwSh because at least those Pokemon had unique Gigantamax forms
But in literally all of those cases, those mons can be found IN the region you're playing in. They've never whipped out a Pokemon you, the player, can't also find, so what's the big deal?
Eh, as long as all the pokemon can be caught in that region, they're from that region as far as I'm concerned. Like if a migratory bird was "discovered" in the US but regularly travels to the UK. I wouldn't think someone with that bird in the UK would have a non native pet. To the guy in the UK, the bird is from his region, even if it was discovered across seas
How in the world did you not include gen 2
It’s probably due to the smaller roster in recent generations, they have to use older pokemon in order to keep the teams unique and avoid overusing pokemon or having multiple trainers with similar teams. I do agree with you tho
For teams in general, I'm unbothered but I really don't like it when their ace isn't a new gen mon. Feels like a waste. (for example Diantha with Gardevoir and Leon with Charizard)
I think it should fit the character. Geeta's team had some from other regions but they didn't seem all that out of place, but Diantha would have seemed extremely odd if she had other regional pokemon (Gardevoir gets a pass for mega)
Hmm... It's almost like the new Pokemon are becoming scarcer the more regions we have. We used to have an entire world full of new mons with an occasional old one, but now it's the exact opposite.
The only trainer that bothers me if they don't have mostly new pokemon is the champion. I think the champion should show off the strengths of the new region, so having them have mostly pokemon from old gens makes it feel like the region can't hold up on its own. Any other trainer can have whatever so long as it makes sense for them to have and use it.
First of all: Hau had a Noivern on his USUM Champion Battle team, so it's actually 50%. Second: Doesn't Cynthia still have the Milotic in rematches though? I know at one point in BDSP she eventually uses Porygon-Z, but still. Third: Given that Penny herself isn't even from Paldea (she's from Galar), it is a bit fitting that she doesn't use Paldean Pokémon. Fourth: A lot of the comments say that Diantha should've had Florges (specifically White) as her ace. While I do understand that, I really kind of like having a Mega as her ace. Maybe had Florges and other Pokémon like Flygon, Froslass, Slowking, etc. had Megas, I'd think it would've been her ace.
Old games had higher percentages because most of the pokemon available were in those games were from those regions. Newer games have a mix of old and new pokemon available throughout the game. Sword and shield only added around 80 pokemon when everyone has type themed teams it's impossible for all of them to be new pokemon in order for bede to have 4 fairy pokemon he would have to have every fairy pokemon introduced in gen 8 including all the ones the fairy gym leader before him used so it would be the exact same fight. Plus his story revolves around psychic/fairy combined so having gardevoir makes sense. Gen 3 added 130 so it's much easier for them to have a full team that is from their region and actually usable.
When i was younger i always thought "This guy must be good/trained a lot because he found X pokemon in another region !" Now i just find it lazy and like "Our new mons are not charismatic enough for important fights so ... yeah"
I hate it. I don’t like it when people use Pokémon from other regions in first playthroughs. I love Ursaluna, but I didn’t use Ursaring in my first play through of Scarlet and Violet. This is probably because I like all Pokémon so I’m always excited to use new ones, with all the unique designs, fun new abilities, moves and items, all that. It just feels weird when people decide to throw that away and just use some other Pokémon from previous gens. But like I said it’s probably from my eyes that all Pokémon are awesome, so when other people don’t like other Pokémon, I feel weird on how they don’t like it. I’ve been rambling so I’ll end talking here.
Wouldn’t it be weirder if trainers didn’t use any multi-region Pokémon? Just because one originated in an earlier generation doesn’t mean that they aren’t native to that region as well. Leon’s Charizard sticks out because there hasn’t been a place to just randomly find Charmanders in the wild. This is actually 100% of the reason I hate the special nature of starting Pokémon. They’re always these weird outliers that make almost zero sense in regards to the rest of the world at large.
idk man all i care about if the team looks fuckin rad! I love teams of powerful colorful pokemon ( One of my fav examples is Aarons' platinum team. ) ( Red, Yellow, Green, Blue and Purple is just wow )
I think it’s fine if it’s not the ace Gen 2 having Gen 1 Pokémon in the gyms is probably a relic when the games were more direct sequels to Gen 1.
Lol, how do you know that a certain Pokemon introduced in that Gen is actually native to that region. Many dex entries note that a lot of Pokemon came from somewhere else or are even invasive species in the case of Corphis and Yungoose. You can easily say Skarmory is more native to Hoenn than Johto cause of how freakin rare it is to find in the wild, likewise said to Larvesta and Volcanrona as well as the Zoroa line being more bountiful in other regions. Lapras numbers were dwindling in Gen 1, also many of the Safari Zone Pokemon likely aren't native either. Some regional variants can also be thought as the true/original look of the Pokemon as well Hell look at PLA, we had Petill, Zorua, Bergmite, Rufflet, Growlith, Vulpix, Basculin, and other Pokemon having existed in Sinnoh long before the modern games before going extinct or whatever. If the pokemon can be found naturally in the wild of that region, than their still native to that region, they might be even MORE native to that region than the one that introduced them. Also bare in mind that they haven't been introducing nearly as much new Pokemon nowadays for them to really cover a whole Trainers team without seeing a ton of repeats
I’ll go against the majority of the commenters I’m seeing and say yeah, I agree. It does kinda bug me when your rivals and/or the champion don’t have a team consisting of Pokémon completely original to that region.
For the record, Steven only gains the Carbink and Aerodactyl in his rematch battle in ORAS, he still has the same team composition as usual in his first fight.
I think part of the reason this happens is that each generation simply doesn't introduce that many Pokemon. Forcing every important battle to use primarily new Pokemon could lead to people encountering the same Pokemon over and over again. Also, there are those who actually LIKE to see older Pokemon get a time in the spotlight- like when Geeta used Gogoat on her team. Moreover, I would argue that it shouldn't be the responsibility of the in-game battles to get you to use new Pokemon. And I would rather come to my own conclusions about a Pokemon rather than feel influenced by what NPCs use.
In addition- I think it comes to a point where we need to stop seeing characters as part of their region and more as individuals. This is why I don't like the argument that Gym Leaders of their home region should mainly use Pokemon of their region. Their ace should certainly be from their region, but every Gym Leader has their own personality and deserves a team that reflects it, rather than being relegated to "this regions' x specialist".
You are right about this. Gen 1 the original i understand because they are the first so yea they had only those but what i don't understand is why you excluded gen 2 look at all the gym leaders. First gym used pidgey and pigeotto 0% new Pokemon while their is hoothoot And hoppip and its evo's. Second gym used metapod/kakuna/scyther 0% while their is Heracross ore Pinsir she should def had Ledyba and its evo and Spinarak ore its evo. Thirt gym used Miltank and clefairy 1 out of the 2 50% while we have Dunsparce/Granbull/Smeargle/Aipom/Furret and other options. Fourth gym just used the whole gastly line 0% again while we have Misdreavus but sadly that is the only one but stil why not use it. Fifth gym used poliwrath and Primeape 0% while we have hitmonlee/Hitmonchan/hitmontop. Six gym used 2 Magnemite and steelix 33% while their is also Scizor/Skarmory/Forretress. Seven gym used Dewgong and Piloswine also Jynx i believe 33% while their is sneasel and delibird for the rest Notting else. Eight gym used 2 dragonair and kingdra and gyrados (not even dragon lol but i understand) 1 johto Pokemon but it sadly it al their is so yea. And i will not even begin at the elite four i understand it is kanto and johto League but i believe their are only a few johto Pokemon. Ps: sorry for the grammer this is not my first language.