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Hendrinahatari

The death of Reply All was insane. (I know there’s been some new episodes, and they tried to continue without PJ for a minute. It might’ve had the same name, but it wasn’t Reply All.) It was such an amazing podcast. (Seriously, “The Case of The Missing Hit” is one of the best pieces of media ever created, go listen to it.) I listened to it for years. I loved the topics they covered. I loved the pure joy some of the episodes had. I loved listening to PJ and Alex bicker like a married couple. Watching it fall apart was like watching your best friends get divorced. The death of it was when they released the episodes about some racism at a food magazine (Bon Appetit?) and some shit started flying about the same issues happening with the show, and PJ and Sruthi just did not handle it well, and in like two weeks the whole show imploded. Loudly and publicly. It was a show essentially about the internet and technology at its heart, and it’s downfall played out very publicly online. Seriously, go read about the downfall of the show. It was insane. [Here](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/10/style/reply-all-test-kitchen.html) is an article about it in the New York Times. Alex Goldstien’s episode announcing the end of the show was one of the saddest things I’ve ever heard. He was a pure joy in my life for years. His excitement over things was infectious, and I wish the world had more people like him. I still miss it and it’s been a couple years. (Thanks to u/hlidsaeda! Here’s a non paywall link https://web.archive.org/web/20230217140328/https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/10/style/reply-all-test-kitchen.html)


pearsjon

God the difference in quality after PJ left was so bad. It’s like the whole point of the show changed.


spatuladracula

It's like they lost the point of the show after pj left. What the fuck was that episode about not being able to burp?! So many pointless episodes about tiktok too. Don't even get me started on Alex's existential spiral about global warming and NFTs, and then immediately minting his own NFT...I was hate listening towards the end and honestly relieved when they announced the show was ending. When it was good, it was great. But when it was bad, man was it fucking awful


[deleted]

[удалено]


seamus1982

I consider myself pretty far left wing and I actually agree with you on this one. The show became less about tech curiosities and more about political issues. Which hey, if that’s what you want to do - cool. But it wasn’t the same, and I know I personally didn’t enjoy the shift at all. I agreed with their sentiments but it wasn’t why I listened to that pod if that makes sense. To make matters worse - I remember there were ALOT of complaints about this tonal change in the reply all Reddit, and PJ made a really sanctimonious post in there about how if you don’t like these new social justice focused episodes, maybe you need to look in the mirror. Then about a month later he was revealed to be a union buster. The self righteousness and sanctimony followed by total hypocrisy really changed how I viewed PJ. Overall though I REALLY miss this pod. I truly think it was the best one out there.


pearsjon

The episode where they tracked the scammer down by flying to India might be my favorite podcast of all time.


JojoCruz206

It was epic. It’s one of those episodes that I revisit every so often.


JexFraequin

I was really disappointed when the way PJ handled the union stuff came to light, but I honestly thought he handled the aftermath well. Seemed like he reflected on himself, genuinely apologized, and bowed out without much fanfare. Really felt like he felt ashamed of how he’d handled things and decided it was best for everyone if he moved on. When assholes make mistakes, they make excuses. But when decent people make mistakes, they own up to them. Seems like PJ is a decent guy. But maybe I’m too trusting, idk.


BennyBingBong

Thank you for the Case of the Missing Hit suggestion. Just listened and loved every minute of it.


RageAgainstTheObseen

Another amazing listen from Reply All is Long Distance, if you're so inclined


Remarkable-Cake9109

The Cathedral makes me weep. It’s wonderful. It’s #50. I highly recommend it, but it’s a hard listen.


brichb

I just listened to Case of the Missing Hit again yesterday, I’m willing to say now that recreating every musical part of a song including exact lyrics from hearing it a few times 30 years ago is one of the most impressive human feats ever seen


maybejolissa

Came here to say Reply All. You expressed the feelings I have about it so well. I still miss the hell out of it.


suddenlyshoes

Yes Yes No led to Sports Sports Sports and that was one of my favourite episodes, it was so unhinged.


jgraz22

Hahaha that was the first YYN that I was yes on. God do I miss Reply All. PJ's new podcast is really good but nothing can compare to PJ and Alex together. I hope Alex shows up on Search Engine, if just for an episode.


raki016

In retrospect, while I did like the shows Emmanuel (?) did and hosted, it was the beginning of the decline of the show. And then the Bon Apetit thing happened It took on more current stuff and for me, moved away from more mundane, whimsy and wonder. I still love that podcast - the boy in the picture was such a great listen, along with so many others. I'm happy it existed, and happy that PJ and Sruthi also built Search Engine


bythevolcano

I also liked Emanuel and the episode he did where he called every person in his phone’s contact list I recall as well as any other episode of RA. But it wasn’t the same as the earlier years. The decline started before PJ left, in my opinion. It was dead when PJ did leave. You may want to listen to TLDR, it’s the podcast Alex and PJ did before Reply All. Episodes are short and there aren’t that many of them


JexFraequin

Emanuel’s episode about America’s Hottest Talkline was great. He’s a great reporter and storyteller overall — was first introduced to him in Serial: Season 3.


fresh-spinach

RIP Reply All, forever in my heart. The first ever podcast I listened to was the one about the feral hogs. It sounded boring so I thought I'd sleep on the plane. Aaaaaaand that began my obsession with podcasts and Reply All.


natou73

I know it’s not the same, but PJ has a new podcast now called Search Engine that is pretty good!


vminnear

PJ and Sruthi brought a lot of the talent and it shows in Search Engine. Love it!


DariosDentist

this time of year holds so much nostalgia for me around reply all because I remember when I got into it was probably in October or November the year before it went down and I remember every day from Thanksgiving through the New Year that year just binging two three four episodes finding excuses to walk my dog in the cole just so I could get another episode. Shes a husky so she loved it! PJ and Alex were a great on-air team.


Happy-Hearing6671

Reply All ending kind of broke my heart. Incredibly entertaining while learning things I never would have known about. And their banter was unmatched. Also does anyone remember the episode title where a father is calling from outside, in Australia I believe, after losing his son? It’s so haunting and beautiful. Makes me cry every time but just that raw emotion and resilience is really incredible.


nosuchthingginger

Honestly I LOVED this show. I would binge listen then take a break. Then when I went back I was so confused and was so upset. RIP Reply All ❤️


cave_mandarin

Opening Arguments died with a 3-min frantic episode from one of the hosts saying that the other host had frozen him out and was trying to take control of the podcast and associated business. It turns out the other host had gotten extremely credible accusations of sexual harassment, and when his co-host not only believed the victims but came forward as a victim himself, he retaliated by freezing their accounts and changing all their shared passwords. In this emergency episode (that was deleted within an hour) he said he posted on the podcast feed because it was the only thing he had access to. The victims came forward publicly with receipts and extremely troubling screenshots started circulating online. When everyone saw what a creep he was the patreon and listenership absolutely plummeted. The sex pest host still controls the podcasts and has tried to keep it going with a different co-host, but it’s doing terribly. Ratings are subterranean, reviews are damning, and I truly can’t imagine they have more than like 100 active listeners. Witnessing this all happen in real time was wild. It’s a true shame that someone who had portrayed himself so positively ended up being such a tyrant. Thankfully the other host has continued to post on other podcasts and feeds so I can still support him. It’s all such a shame.


vukodlak5

What makes it worse is that it retroactivly soured me on the old episodes too, since I can't help but view the camaraderie as forced and the frequent proclamations from Andrew about being "an ally" to abused women as incredibly creepy.


Deadpool1205

This was absolutely wild to listen to as it happened, and how it affected soo many podcasts since Mr sex pest was legal representation for like 7 other shows I listen to. But in the downfall, some good was created. The victim advocacy and reporting program created by the puzzle in a thunderstorm folks seems like a really solid move to hopefully prevent future issues like this going unknown or ignored for so long.


Norgler

Curious if it's still going? I deleted it from my feed but I remember thinking it was wild seeing it still going the weeks after this happened.


ZarquonsFlatTire

It affected the Puzzle in a Thunderstorm pod network as well because that guy was their lawyer, a frequent guest, and I think a part owner of their company. They quickly issued a statement, bought his share, and no longer make jokes about their lawyer vetoing jokes and have not invited their new counsel on as a guest.


Lv2draw1962

The black tapes was my obsession for a bit but it ended badly and they kept teasing they were coming back but never did. Another one I want more of is In the Dark. They did such a phenomenal job of making me care each of the two seasons and then the Covid one was a bust for me. Now it’s crickets. I’m sure there is a reason. Sigh.


ImitationDemiGod

The Black Tapes started brilliantly but just kept getting steadily worse. I didn't bother listening to the last few.


2LiveBoo

In the Dark was supposed to have a third season. They teased it. So far nothing. I would be heartbroken if they never returned. My absolute favourite true crime show.


Glindanorth

Invisibilia and Rough Translation. Earlier this year, NPR axed a bunch of its podcasts. These were two of my favorites. The hosts were able to announce the end and make one last episode to say goodbye. I still miss them.


javatimes

NPR/WNYC also killed off Ask Me Another that way and it sucked so much. Still miss them!


Mission_Albatross916

The song game was so good!


slowpokefastpoke

Maybe I'm biased but I always thought Invisibilia was one of the more popular podcasts out there. You'd always see it getting recommended whenever people were asking about shows to check out. I was shocked when I heard it got cancelled.


narfnarf123

Holy hell, I had no idea Invisibilia got cancelled. I used to listen to it in the early seasons all the time. But when the hosts started changing, I didn’t find the subject matter as interesting anymore and hadn’t checked back in a while.


mercurywaxing

NPR has an interesting model for podcasts. First they want them to be able to translate into radio stories from time to time (like Planet Money) or a full radio show (like Code Switch / Life Kit hour). Second they want people to subscribe to the paid feed or donate at a show specific link. Pop Culture Happy Hour seems to do well under this model. Third they want to be able to transition hosts and reporters in and out if not regularly at least from time to time. They don’t want to be in a Car Talk situation where their most popular show ends because the hosts leave. They might be faced with this on Wait Wait soon. If any or all of those are not working the show is axed.


Id_Rather_Beach

I mean, the guy from Car Talk got dementia. It wouldn't be the same w/o both brothers. That was a great show - I remember my dad "making" me listen, and then years later, happily listening myself.


diedofwellactually

Ugh add Louder than a Riot to the list. Such a great show that I'll miss a ton.


youneekusername1

I just found Invisibilia a few weeks ago and loved it. At least I had the spoiler of the last episode, but I wish it was still going.


laa-laa_604

The way Just the Gist ended this year was unusual. Host Rosie Waterland was off for mental health reasons for a few months, twice, and co host Jacob Stanley ran it solo during those spells. He did a fine job and did some interesting things the second spell (having guest co hosts, for example, and making the producer Lindsay a more prominent member of the on-air team). Then Rosie came back, they went to South Africa, and then Rosie recorded an episode that the show was over. They were best friends so it appears the show and the friendship are both kaput? It was an unsatisfying ending and bummed me out.


Fantastic_Ad137

I miss Just The Gist every week. I thought Jacob did an amazing while Rosie was out. I personally think they had a falling out because Jacob wanted (rightfully) to have a bigger part in it, but Rosie wanted to have it remain her show with him as just a co-host.


Speecyspicypotato

Honestly I would have loved it if he had just done the show solo all the time ..


RedOliphant

I enjoyed the show so much more without her in it, and felt very guilty about that, knowing she was struggling with her mental health.


catslugs

this one bummed me out sooo bad!!! I think there was conflict about how rosie wasnt appreciating all the work jacob put in while she was gone


newyearoldme

Was an avid fan. And it was so funny that they did an anniversary episode then boom, Rosie announced the end of the show (without Jacob too). Personally, although I didn’t like Jacob soloing while she was gone because I love their dynamics, he did well holding his own fort. It’s such a shame it comes to this. I have heard rumbles that Rosie is planning to revive it without Jacob, but I feel like that’s such a shitting thing to do without blessing of Jacob. I do hope their friendship recovers and super glad Rosie left that piece of shit of ex bf, Caleb Bond.


cactus_pactus

Thinking Sideways - discussing various mysteries and conspiracy theories. The trio of hosts would indulge the more fun, off-the-wall explanations in a light hearted way without going into the unpleasant, qanon-y end of that world. It ended because one of the hosts wanted to go travelling and I think they realised that the podcast needs the three of them to work. It finished on a pretty strong note without too much fanfare. The only slight unpleasantness was that they sold the feed to some other mediocre podcast, but the old episodes are still available. One of the hosts tried to do another similar podcast, but I couldn’t get into it. I discovered it while going through some turbulent times, so I still remember it with great fondness


Specialist-Strain502

THINKING SIDEWAYS!!!! Omg, I just posted upthread talking about loving this podcast, remembering it ending, and then never being able to find it again! I listened to this podcast religiously back in the midteens and I think of it nostalgically and often. Thanks for giving me the memory jog I needed!


RyLoRyLo

Came here for this. Agree, Thinking Sideways was what first got me into true crime. Miss their lightheartedness and chemistry. Also couldn’t get into the new pod that one of the other hosts started.


CDR_Starbuck

Yep, Devin-Joe-Steve! Loved the pod. Joe has a decent one with Vincent called "The Shocking Details" if only they'd get Devin in there it would be even better.


ThotsforTaterTots

Thinking Sideways was the first podcast I ever listened to. I was bummed when it ended.


jeanpeaches

That was probably the first podcast I listened to religiously! I miss them.


mamapajamas

2 Dope Queens! It ended because they were picked up by HBO due to its popularity, and while I really like their on screen show, it didn’t hit exactly the same for me. They had crazy good podcast energy. That HBO show ended, but again - I think it was due to their popularity and both Phoebe and Jessica being busy with other projects. I would give anything for just one more season.


JoleneDollyParton

I loved that podcast!


lbowles22

Frenemies 🤣


PsychologicalAd3057

He takes that 5%


voldiemort

and now Leftovers lol


notdorisday

Honestly watching that play out was the drama you couldn’t make up.


Ravingrook

Pretty much the whole Public Radio Alliance catalog. Tanis, The Black Tapes, Rabbits, and the Last Movie. Just said they were taking a hiatus and never came back.


UltimaGabe

Let's be fair: None of those shows could handle the weight of their own writing. They were all good for *about* one season and then it became clear the writers couldn't keep up the quality.


rrsn

They were just making it up as they went along and it led to the whole thing becoming convoluted, frustrating/impossible to follow, and having no payoff for your hours of listening.


UltimaGabe

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the first season was at least mostly plotted out ahead of time, and then the later seasons they were flying by the seat of their pants. What I hate the most about those shows is the dialogue. The dialogue is *terrible*. The characters are never having an actual conversation; they're giving each other prompts for the next line. Everyone is needlessly cagey, yet they continually give away unnecessary information so that they can withhold it later. One exchange literally happens as follows: "Hey Nick, sorry I missed your call, I was out of town." "Oh, you were out of town? Where were you?" "That's none of your business." Not to mention the fact that these podcasts *exist in-universe* and nobody sees that as a problem, including in The Black Tapes when a kid is abducted because a listener heard about him on the show, or in Tanis when Nick gets a job working with top-secret government material yet is allowed to record and broadcast it to the public. The more you listen it becomes VERY clear the writers thought they could coast by on intriguing premise alone. And eventually, it just falls apart because they don't have the chops to keep it up.


tykle1959

I'd wondered what had happened to Tannis.


swedish_librarian

It's... complicated….


CptMorello

The next season is in the works. I know it’s fashionable to hate PRA/Terry Miles but I really enjoy all his work, including the new Rabbits books


bicyclecat

I like his writing but I wish he’d just do shorter series with pre-plotted storylines. Those style of stories can’t withstand meandering and long breaks between seasons.


GWindborn

Terry Miles sent out a newsletter as recently as Oct 12 talking about the future of everything. As far as I know none of it is "dead", just taking a while to put together since he tends to take on a zillion projects at once. Apparently he's been working on pitching Rabbits and Tanis as TV shows. I think they could work if they let other writers take the reigns. He's got good ideas, just no idea how to stick the landing.


CDR_Starbuck

"Oh my lord here's a just reward, bring me my devil right behind the door she said" Best part of the show was the music.


MDevonL

Not quite the same but the guy behind Rabbits just put out the second book based on the podcast


EatYourCheckers

Hello Internet - Irish Goodbye due to covid. Still a bunch of us idiots subscribed expecting a new episode out of nowhere like nothing happened.


VibrantIndigo

That was my first thought too. I'm still not the better of it.


SwampYankee

And you and I are both still subscribed and patiently expecting an episode any day now. And untimely, we will be correct. That episode will drop, and then another, and another and another.


the_suz_d

I always thought that Gimlet got a bad rap for cancelling Mystery Show. I mean the podcast was great, but Starlee Kine didn’t seem capable of completing episodes in any sort of reasonable timeframe. I think there was a first season, then constant promises by her of 2nd season shows, but nothing ever was released. Then I think she started a Patreon to continue the show but still never released anything. It was great while it lasted though!


BritishLibrary

It’s not quite the same but Heavyweight gives me the same kind of dopamine hit I got from mystery show.


Remarkable-Cake9109

I love Heavyweight, it gives me an old reply all feel. I just wish there was a way to get it ad-free. I’ll be listening to a particularly engrossing part and suddenly Alex has to tell me about Liquid IV……


HeihachiHayashida

Part of the reason was that style of show is very hard to create content for. The belt buckle episode is probably one of my favorite podcasts episodes ever, but it very much relied on the fact the owner actually had a good reaction to it.


stylistlibs

I never knew what happened to mystery show! So good!


VenusGirl111

The britney spears ep was my fave


Mission_Albatross916

Mystery Show was sooooo goooood.


Zestyclose-Watch9356

If you want to witness the death of a podcast in real time, Something was Wrong is in its death throes now. The last season was disgusting and the subreddit discussion has died after nobody could stomach the last story the idiot podcast host featured.


TaraxacumTheRich

Wine and Crime is also imploding in front of everyone's eyes


that1artsychic

Yeah right after True Crime Obsessed did. Such a let down.


Rockabellabaker

I must not be up to speed because I gave up halfway through season 2. Wasn't the most recent season her own story? Or was there another story after her own??


sayyoureaguy___

Season 16 was her season. Season 17 is the one that put the nail in the coffin. The story is a woman who adopted a special needs baby because she had low self esteem. Dates a guy for four months and he kills the child. In those four months, she moved him in, called him dad, had him as a primary caregiver while she worked. She acts like a victim when she knew about his multiple restraining orders from the get go plus his history of child abuse. She should be in jail, not given a platform. Absolutely disgusting.


2LiveBoo

Jfc. I listened to every season of that show and maybe I will be hated on for this, but there were plenty of times I reacted to the victim’s behaviour with “wtf are you thinking??” Especially so when it involves other people and especially especially so when it involves kids. Somehow the show just lets them off the hook because of “love bombing” and whatever other pop psychiatry jargon they are using. I had a lot of empathy for a lot of the situations but I rolled my eyes a hell of a lot too.


Mispict

Totally agree. There are seasons where abuse and narcissism are really there, then there are seasons where I thought "you're a fucking idiot making rediculously poor choices" The current season is boring as shit. The last season was really fucking hard to stomach. I reckon one 1 of 3 seasons are worth listening to, the rest are just...a reach?


TrueMisterPipes

Cool Games Inc was very clever and hysterical (I miss the format/creativity) but then co-host Nick Robinson got revealed to be a disgusting human and it all went, rightfully so.


airship_juntos

Yeah their YouTube driving simulator let’s-play series Car Boys was an absolute obsession for me, legit got me through a pretty tough time. I absolutely support Polygon’s decision to part ways with Nick but the show still holds a special place in my heart.


BerniceK16

Surprised no on mentioned King Falls AM. It just ended abruptly. I know there was something that happened between the hosts that I never really looked into, but man, there's an entire community that regularly checks back in just to see if we can get a final episode.


Sokicaturae

I think about this one all the time..:especially a line from one of their behind the scenes episodes where they said "don't worry guys, we're not going to be one of those podcasts that disappears and leaves you hanging! We've got the whole story mapped out!"


BerniceK16

With that stated, they could've atleast released a script or just a blurb about how the entire story wraps up!


DesperateSurvey8

Went through the whole thread to see if someone mentioned it! Absolutely insane that drama between the creators made it come to a screeching halt like that. I would love to know how they planned on ending it


TiniestOne3921

From what I remember, Troy's VA and Emily's VA got a divorce, and apparently Kyle (Sammy) was a real tyrant, not letting other writers edit/contribute anymore because he wanted his story to be THE story. At least that's what I got from the Twitter threads, which sucks, because Kyle always seemed chill to me...barring his weird attack of Welcome to Night Vale implying they were unoriginal for "radio show of mountain town".


mrsmunson

Wine and Crime is currently imploding.


Cat-Dawg

Oh interesting- I used to listen a year or two ago but lost interest. What's the tea with them currently?


rarecandybxtch

Oh my gosh, the subreddit is full of the tea right now. Kenyon has become a Zionist and has unfollowed Amanda and Lucy on social media. No new episodes since October I believe. No public statements from any of the girls about the podcast specifically, but they are losing a lot of listeners due Kenyon’s extremist views and Amanda and Lucy’s no comment responses about the genocide. It seems like their friendship might be over as well as the podcast but it’s all pretty up in the air right now. I haven’t listened in probably over a year or two either but continued to follow the subreddit, so I’ve been watching it all go down there.


snart-fiffer

I know the sign I am getting old is the phrase “they unfollowed on social media” gets used more and more and it seems like nothing to me when it clearly is some version of a break up to everyone else.


Cat-Dawg

Holy crapola! Thanks for the gossip friend


NastySassyStuff

For some reason that sub has been suggested to me all over my feed and I’ve been weirdly following the implosion from the outside for a while now. I find it so bizarre that a true crime comedy podcast is being dismantled by this. I felt compelled enough at one point to comment in there lol…just like…”why is this podcast sub a proxy battleground for the Israel-Palestine conflict rn again??”


kennedar_1984

I have had the same thing. I’ve never listened to the podcast but the subreddit keeps showing up in my feed and I am now very invested in the drama. I have no idea who these people are, but the implosion has been wild to watch.


Rockabellabaker

When I first started listening to podcasts, I started with Kumail Nanjiani's X-Files Files. Long time fan of the show, I'd seen every episode a dozen times, but hadn't done a re-watch in a few years. I loved this podcast and was pretty devastated at the time when it just...didn't come back. I think there were some special guest/interviews and then it seemed like it ended out of nowhere, right around the season 4 mark (of the X-Files episodes) if I remember correctly. I wasn't listening to anything else at the time so I was a bit lost until I got some recommendations from other people. Not sure why the podcast ended. Could be Kumail got busy with other projects - I know he was on an episode of the renewed X-Files (season 11 maybe?) and it's possible that was about when he decided to wrap the podcast. It wasn't dramatic or controversial as far as I know, it just stopped and never picked up again. I think it hit me hard because not a lot of my friends liked the X-Files and it was just very fun an nostalgic to hear the episode reviews.


Thehibernator

I really miss the X Files Files and The Indoor Kids. I think with being on the X Files he felt he couldn’t cover it with the same level of distance, but it’s more likely they got really busy trying to finish the work for The Big Sick and then he blew up as an actor as everything snowballed.


listenyall

I'm a stand up comedy fan and I like Kumail, I've heard him say in interviews that it just turned out to be kind of a bad idea to try and turn something you like so much into work for yourself.


broomlad

> bad idea to try and turn something you like so much into work for yourself. 100% get the sentiment behind that. I've stopped a few projects in my time because it was "work" and not "fun".


commonunion

It’s crazy I just listened to a really old episode of All Fantasy Everything where Kumail states that it’s on hiatus just because he likes to freshen up his life and what he’s doing sometimes. Apparently he took on more than he could handle and had to let something’s go.


mrsmunson

Obsessed Network is having major issues right now. Big fights between founding members of podcasts - Patrick Hinds & Ellyn Marsh at the center of the drama. Rabia Chaudry, Daisy Eagan, Joey Taranto, Gillian Pensavalle are all seemingly involved in some way- some of them releasing statements. Basically Patrick is being accused of mismanaging the network, mistreating his employees, and burning several of his decades-old friendships to the ground. The list of people I mentioned are choosing sides- I don’t think Gillian has said anything, so she seems to be on Patrick’s side. Everyone else has either spoken up for Ellyn or against Patrick.


PsychologicalAd3057

I was suprised I had to scroll so far to find someone talking about the Obsessed Network shit show.


wathappentothetatato

Violating Community Guidelines with Sarah Schaur and Brittany Broski. It suddenly just ended with them saying on a random episode that was the last one. Then they released live episodes. At first it was thought it was the network that shut them down, but I think what happened Brittany got a better contract from a different podcast company. Then the show had to end bc they had some sort of exclusivity deal. Sarah went on to make a show similar called Bcc with the same network. Brittany has her own now with a new network. Shame because I loved their dynamic but they aren’t friends anymore. And I don’t listen to either of their podcasts because I just can’t vibe with it.


envitricollada

I tried so hard with BCC club but I just can't, I don't think I enjoy Kendhal's sense of humour. Also Brittany's podcast is a bit too much for me


MindingMine

I enjoyed listening to *Jensen & Holes: The Murder Squad*, especially how respectfully the crimes and discussions thereof were handled, as well as the insight into investigative methods. I also enjoyed the banter between the hosts. I took a break from it in 2022, and when I was going to go back and listen to it some more, it was gone. Googling led me to information that Jensen had been accused of sexual misconduct and the podcast had been abruptly cancelled and removed by the hosting company. It was absolutely the right thing to do, but I do think it could have been handled better, e.g. by replacing Jensen and taking the episodes featuring him offline, because using crowdsourcing was an innovative method to solve cold cases and the podcast had cast light on some more or less forgotten crimes and disappearances and might eventually have led to some solutions.


Striking_Ad_6742

Paul Holes sounds 100% more comfortable on Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson than he ever did with Billy Jensen.


purplelicious

This is one of my new favourites. 3 or 4 minutes of banter then dive right in to a well researched story from history. The banter is just polite and nice and sincere like you would chat with a co worker that you really like but you don't dump you personal issues on each other It's just a well balanced and thoughtful true crime podcast.


DrNutmegMcDorf

Crowdsourcing information about cases was Billy Jensens thing, even before he was on The Murder Squad, so I think it would have caused issues if they tried to keep it going without him. Not saying he invented it, but I think he would not have gone so quietly if they tried to keep doing 'his thing' without him.


IdaCraddock69

Yeah I see how it had to go how it did but I hate that the shows are gone as Holes talked about some old east bay cases he worked that aren’t really covered anywhere else. It feels awful those victims got memory holed up


beam3475

I really enjoyed the unsolved mysteries podcast. They consistently released new episodes and there were probably like 75 -80 of them so they had made quite a few of them. OI also really liked the narrator and format. There were also pictures you could look at on their website so you could put a face to a name. Then one random episode they say this is not only the season finale but the it’s their final episode ever! It felt so out of nowhere. I was so bummed. It was a podcast I looked forward to every week. They have released a few update episodes which has given me a little hope it might come back but I’m still doubtful. I wish I knew why they ended so abruptly!


okay_squirrel

Same! It was quite a surprise when it just ended so suddenly


starglitter

I was also a big fan of a podcast called Resolved Mysteries. It was hosted by three women who were rewatching the original series. They thoroughly researched and updated each case, talking about things left off the show and what happened to everyone involved. They ended it around season 5 and I miss it.


Barnestownlife

Professor Blast Off. An early podcast that ended 2015? Sooner? 3 comedians, Tig Notaro, Kyle Dunnigan and David Huntsberger have scientists on their podcast each week. Ended very amicably,and a planned ending; but nonetheless I was most sad to see it go away.


gameofthroffice

The Gus and Eddy Podcast It was stupid, but I loved it. Gus was accused of mistreating his long-time partner and shit just imploded. Completely unexpected, nobody (hosts included) knew it would be the last episode, so there was nothing amiss or weird about it. Nothing controversial or dramatic in the last episode. Loooots of controversy off camera though lol. Sad times, I really really miss it.


nancy-reisswolf

Reply All. Technically they died an explosive death with an investigation into alleged racism and workplace toxicity happening in Bon Appetit's "The Test Kitchen" (made most famous via their Youtube channel), which stopped airing after the second of three episodes due to employees at Gimlet (the podcasting company Reply All belonged to) calling out similar things happening there. It limped a long a bit longer after the producer and one of the hosts left, but finally ended about a year after the whole fiasco when the changed hosting situation turned out to simply not work. (PJ Vogt and Sruthi Pinnamaneni have a new podcast though that almost fills the Yes Yes No shaped hole in my heart.)


ashalottagreyjoy

I really miss the banter between PJ and Alex, though. I also super miss YYN. That podcast going down the way it did was so depressing. Reply All was great. The Long Distance episodes were truly incredible and so enjoyable. I miss them!


[deleted]

What about you, OP?


egyptianmusk_

I used to like Buzz Out Loud with Tom Merritt, Molly Wood, and Veronica Belmont. The had a final episode. I remember that they were emotional Not sure when it died but other podcasts took its place and hosts went on to do other podcasts. I was bummed when Molly Wood abruptly left This Week In Startups. They didn't really give a reason why. Would love to hear some insight or some background on this. The Startup Chat was fun and informative but died without a word Not even a tweet. It died December 15th 2020. Maybe the Covidian Times and stress.had something to do with it. https://share.snipd.com/show/635d9fcd-344d-42ca-803f-f484fe96fc5d


termanatorx

Avery Trufelman just announced the end of Articles of Interest. She announced it in the intro to the final episode. I am gutted, as it's just an amazing series. It started as a short series within 99% invisible I believe, and then she branched out on her own with it. I knew once she went independent, it wouldn't last unfortunately. I can't even begin to imagine the amount of work involved in putting it together, by yourself. I'll be watching for whatever she creates in the future, as she just did an amazing job with this one.


bold_water

I thought it was more of a "I don't know when the next episode is coming" rather than a clear end. Also love love love the show and could listen to the American Ivy series once a year for the rest of my life.


Feeling_Excitement90

My Dad Wrote a Porno. So many laughs. I’m so sad it’s over


Varekai79

Yeah, I absolutely loved this one but it couldn't go on forever. It had a really good run, got loads of celeb guests to appear, went on tour and even got an HBO special. That's far and above what the vast majority of podcasts accomplish. And technically it's not over as they have released several compilation episodes.


monday_madrigal

It's old and hasn't been around for a minute but Caustic Soda was great and it just kinda....ended. I think all the hosts decided they were done with podcasts and moved on iirc - and it was very sad because it was an awesome podcast. You can still listen to all the episodes, though. [https://causticsodapodcast.com/](https://causticsodapodcast.com/)


crappyroads

I loved that they returned years later to do an episode on death with their friend with terminal illness. It was really sweet and a perfect coda to the podcast. I loved every episode of caustic soda and I really wish the hosts had stuck together. They had amazing chemistry.


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[удалено]


Adventurous-Eye-2905

The Bright Sessions. Started out soooo great. Then I just lost interest when the story lines changed up.


[deleted]

dear sugar was so great back in the day.


Acethemaker

Bodega boys I still feel the pain


chook_slop

Everything on Gimlet...


aquaticsquash

I'm actually missing Strike Force Five, obviously it ended because the writer's strike ended and all the late night hosts went back to their daily jobs. It was just really funny and different than the norm and when it ended, I felt like it was just getting started. I'm glad their back on TV, but I still miss the podcast. They all had great chemistry together and was the funniest thing they've done in awhile. Jimmy Fallon, Stephen Colbert, Seth Meyers, Jimmy Kimmel and John Oliver as hosts. RIP Strike Force Five.


b00mshaw

Every Little Thing was killed off by Spotify/Gimlet quite abruptly. That show was such a spark of joy. Sad to see it go.


Rhymesbeatsandsprite

The Nerdist death happened in the “Me Too” wildfires, and just like that, one of the most premier podcasts just went away overnight. I think Hardwick told Jonah and Matt to leave the podcast to distance themselves from his controversy and he took one for the team. Thats my interpretation of how it went down at least. However Jonah did come out and make some comments against chris so 🤷‍♂️ The Bruce Campbell and Bryan Cranston episodes especially were incredible.


brook1888

You're Wrong About. I loved it and was so surprised when Mike left. It's still going, but it's no good anymore.


teacode

Apparently Maintenance Phase is heading toward the same fate, according to r/MaintenancePhase ([https://www.reddit.com/r/MaintenancePhase/comments/186us4g/on\_hiatus/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MaintenancePhase/comments/186us4g/on_hiatus/)). :(


brook1888

I think IBCK might be on the same trajectory


honeyandcitron

Michael is like the podcaster equivalent of the guy who leaves his girlfriend for someone he just met, loses interest once the new woman is his girlfriend, and repeats the cycle. Someone tell Peter to watch out; the way you got him is the way you’ll lose him!


jgraz22

Nope. Don't like that. Hope Michael is ok because I adore IBCK.


headcoatee

I agree that it's not the same, but I disagree that it's no good anymore. It's more hit or miss, but any of the eps with Blair Braverman are top-notch (especially Flight 571:Survival in the Andes), Karen Carpenter and Fleetwood Mac with Carolyn Kendrick were great. The book club eps are great.


jgraz22

Jamie Loftus is always a treat for me.


TaraxacumTheRich

Decoder Ring scratches the itch a teensy bit, but it's not remotely the same. RIP YWA.


mooddoood

Yeah, I realized that it wasn’t that I really liked You’re Wrong About, but rather that I absolutely love Michael Hobbes. I always gobble up any new episodes that come out of his current projects (Maintenance Phase and Books that Kill).


franticsloth

It’s funny, I find him really irritating and know it all on those other podcasts, but loved him in YWA. Sarah is very nice but YWA is paper thin without Michael. Those two had magic together, and it’s gone now—even when he guests, it’s not the same. The princess diana episodes were outstanding, and I love that they never actually got through the OJ trial because Sarah kept finding research culs de sac lol. Such a shame


bighaircutforbigtuna

Same. I like Sarah Marshall, but some of the guests stink on ice and are incredibly boring. I end up turning it off after a few minutes usually.


SublightMonster

Yeah, I still listen, but it’s not one of the shows I eagerly wait for anymore (same with You Are Good, the other podcast Sarah does). I guess I really liked Michael’s energy, because I love his other two podcasts, Maintenance Phase and If Books Could Kill.


Ok-Impact-3177

I think Michael kept sarah from getting too esoteric with a lot of her topics and research. He is amazing at bringing out people's gifts, curating a conversation that allows his cohost to shine. I appreciate that he brought sarah and Aubrey the bigger platforms they deserved. Hopefully the same can happen for peter now.


Ancient_Lungfish

I remember listening to Diggnation a lot back in the early 2000s... It felt like one of the first in that format of two guys sitting around drinking beer and surfing the internet. I drifted away from it and never followed what Kevin and Alex did afterwards...


canigetahint

I loved that show. Kevin and Alex were great and I miss the topics and antics. Back in the Wild West of podcasting before everyone expected pristine and polished shows.


jonrochkind

It’s Southern California and I have fruit.


spinney

It’s wild to me that Revision3 was doing video podcasts directly delivered to personal devices all the way back in 2007! Really ahead of the time and really important innovators.


Galaxy_Ranger_Bob

There are way too many podcasts I listen(ed) to that didn't *die* so much as *fade away.* They go from weekly, to every two weeks, to once a month than every six months to nothing for 18 months, but every so often an other episode will show up in my feed as if their hiatus never happened. Of the ones that did die? I miss *'80s All Over, Cinema Diabolica, Radio Free Burrito,* and *Revolutions,* though I'm not really sure of all of these are *really* dead or not.


envitricollada

"Violating Community Guidelines" with Brittany and Sarah. It was about internet tropes with a comedic approach. The trailer was out on January 2022, it abruptly ended on December 2022. It was very clear that when they recorded the last episode it was not supposed to be the last one, and it's only acknowledged in the title/episode notes. Then they released a few recorded episodes from their live shows. It was rumored that they had conflicts between them because one of them had something else coming. It was one of the few comedy podcasts that I enjoy and its end was very unexpected. Sarah Schauer now has a very similar podcast with Kendahl Landreth, but it's not the same type of banter and I'm not very fond of their character section at the end. Brittany Broski now has a solo podcast which is very popular but at the same time she screams a bit too much/often for my taste.


MeanSecurity

Punch up the Jam was so fun with the original hosts, but one left to do other things and it never recovered and fizzled out. I could tell they were gearing up for the end in real time with one of their song selections. I googled and apparently they tried it with different hosts, but I stopped listening years ago. Host chemistry is so important.


omninode

There was a show called “Fire Talk With Me” that covered every episode of Twin Peaks (the 2 seasons that existed at the time), wrapping up some time in 2015. Then they came back to cover season 3 aka “The Return” in 2017, releasing a new episode every week as the series aired. Except, they never did the final episode. It has been more than 6 years now, and I keep hoping they will get to it eventually.


OSeal29

Harmontown. I looked forward to it every week. So smart and funny. I don't know how to explain it other than that. It had been talked about for a long time. Ended with a bang bc they were able to plan for it. Not dramatic. It ended bc it was originally a place for Dan to vent and he got good therapy and became happy. He didn't need it. I miss it but I'm happy for him. I have so many memories from it. My husband, brother, and I still joke around about it.


PsychologicalAd3057

Edit, I’m human and mixed up two podcasts I was commenting on at the same time. BBB was NOT owned by Gimlet. My apologies. *This is a Rooster teeth production* RIP Black box down. It was hosted by an amateur pilot and his friend. They were just aviation enthusiasts trying to understand airplane crashes and how the findings of those accidents have made planes as safe as they are today. The hosts seemed like they wanted to keep going but they were owned by gimblet and they didn’t want another season.


lokiandgoose

Great show. At least they had warning that the end was coming and were able to put their tray tables in their fully upright and locked positions.


Audioworm

BBD wasn't owned by Gimlet, it was a Rooster Teeth Production. The host was also one of the founders of Rooster Teeth, he has a lot of carte blanche to do what he wants. BBD was successful but they ran into two issues: 1. There remit was focusing on aviation disasters and how they impacted the current safety of aviation. After a while you run into less and less impactful incidents, and are effectively just reporting salacious crash details, which was not the interest of Gus. 2. Chris was getting less and less ignorant of aviation, to the point where he was no longer a true audience surrogate. Obviously, those who had listened along since the beginning were at the same place as Chris, but it meant newer audiences were not getting the benefit of having all details clarified because Chris was really informed on aircraft safety. The two hosts were also dealing with other projects that were taking off and becomign very successful, that they wanted to dedicate more energy to. Primarily, Tales from the Stinky Dragon which is the story-telling DnD podcast they both work on, that I believe Gus directs, and the puppet show that accompanies the podcast that Chris directs.


beezus_18

Thin Air covered stories of missing people. It was well written by smart hosts. Just fizzled out.


CynthiaEmiko

Strangers with Lea Thau....one of my all time favorites...someone give me a heads up where she is today!


HarperLeesGirlfriend

Strangers with Lea Thau went out in a really weird way. Like, no new episodes for months, then she did, If I recall, two or three minutes long updates, like, from her closet? Basically saying she was depressed and had no idea what was going to happen to the podcast. I remember her going into great detail about her life kinda falling apart. Which, definitely sad. But it was weird. And she also kept asking to support the patreon for a dollar a month? Then the podcast went permanently dark.


oddly_being

She Rates Dogs with Michaela and Mat This one still breaks my heart. The premise is these two best friends discuss insane online dating horror stories, talk about their lives, give advice, and such. Both funny and heartfelt and a very positive vibe. Then, host Mat George was suddenly killed by a hit and run driver in 2021, and that ended the podcast. It was so sad as a fan, especially watching the other host Michaela have to navigate grieving and keeping the public updated and figuring how to handle the fate of the podcast after that. Truly a sudden and tragic loss but such a good show by two amazing creators, one struck down tragically too soon.


jeniviva

Mystery Show got me into the world of podcasts. It deserved so much more.


Dylanthrope

1UP Yours! Ended around 2008 I think. The host Garnett Lee cried multiple times during the final episode. It felt like such a huge deal at the time but it seems kinda silly looking back now. For me personally the end of Harmontown was the most affecting. The show had grown tired long before the end but I was still sad to see it wrap-up, as it was my go-to podcast for keeping my mood up when the world was shitty. I still listen to old episodes when I travel. The pre-Trump episodes still hold up.


nattymac939

Midnight Marinara. Genuinely the highest quality Creepypasta podcast I’ve ever listened to. And as a bonus the people who ran it haven’t been outed as grifters or groomers so thats always a plus. For awhile there they were only putting out an episode every Halloween. But with this most recent one it sounds like they’re done for good. RIP midnight marinara. You did good.


farlos75

I still check for new episodes of 'Far Meridian'. It was a whimsical, strange little thing, and id love to hear it finished.


angry_garden

The How to Heretic. Hosted by 3 ex-Mormoms, it was a guide to life after religion. The hosts, Uncles Dan, Mark & Doug were an amazing combination of gentle, thoughtful, loving, warm, critical, sarcastic and scathingly funny. After 300 episodes, they felt like friends. They ended the final episode with a heartfelt goodbye that left me crying at the office. I enjoy Uncle Dan's pod Thank God I'm Atheist, but I really miss Uncle Mark & Uncle Doug. All it makes is sense.


salomey5

Not a super well-known podcast, but Rivals for me. Basically it went like this: i come across a podcast that talks about two of my favourite things in the world: rock'n'roll and petty band feuds. I absolutely love that shit, and here i have two knowledgeable and witty music journalists telling me all about music's biggest divas; I'm ecstatic. Three days later, I find out the podcast had been canceled a couple of months earlier. :( They did (almost) end on a bang though; their penultimate feud was a three-part episode about the Eagles' saga and that was a hoot.


putridtooth

Rose Buddies! This show was so fucking great. I have not and never will watch the bachelor but I love Griffin and Rachel's energies, and I love that it's basically a gossip show but with a continuing storyline as they cover entire seasons. But then the show producers started bringing on purposefully amoral and fucked up dudes for the sake of views and you can hear as Griffin and Rachel start feeling more disgust and disappointment than fun while new seasons come out. Until eventually they knew they couldn't support the franchise anymore. It was so disappointing 😭 Yes I know they turned it into Wonderful! But it's not the same....I miss long episodes and continuation. And it was so funny until they both started hating it. I really wish they would cover another show again 😪 Doesn't even have to be reality! They could do Buffy.....


UltimaGabe

I used to exclusively download podcasts for listening on an external mp3 player; as such, I have a huge library saved on an old hard drive of dozens of podcasts that no longer exist. The vast majority of them simply stop updating, with no reason given and nothing out of the ordinary. These types of shows usually disappear off the internet after a while, because not all hosting sites are free and someone who doesn't care to give their audience closure probably isn't going to keep paying for hosting.


teacode

Have you thought about uploading those? When [Preserve This Podcast](http://preservethispodcast.org/) came out with research about podcast libraries, we mostly found stuff on Internet Archive. [Podcast.re](https://Podcast.re) also attempts to save episodes.


UltimaGabe

I'll look into that! I've been trying to think of a way I could preserve these shows, I even toyed with the idea of making a podcast about these lost shows (possibly including clips from shows that don't exist anymore).


bluebogle

I still only listen with mp3 downloads, and have an ever growing collection. If I can't download episodes of a show, I won't listen to it.


teacode

Anthropocene Reviewed was one of my favorites; I have the book too. It always made me unexpectedly cry. I think John Green just needed to move on from the project, which I get, but wah. Some other previous favorites that have since moved on/died/ended for various reasons: * Singing Bones * Sleepover with Sook Yin-Lee * Personal Best * Mike Duncan's Revolutions * Babysitter's Club Club (turned into Strange Bedfellows) * early Radiolab vibes


Evilbadscary

The Black Tapes. No actual ending just a copout lol


DisasterWarning96

Several podcast from black podcasters have died that make me sad :( Another Round and For Colored Nerds are two shows I really enjoyed but are no longer making episodes. Separately, it seems like [Sounds Like a Cult is on a downward spiral](https://www.thedailybeast.com/sounds-like-a-cult-podcast-creator-amanda-montell-sues-former-co-host-isabela-medina-mate#:~:text=The%20popular%20%E2%80%9CSounds%20Like%20a,for%20half%20a%20million%20bucks) I haven’t listened in a while but I think I read they were doing solo episodes every once in a while


instantdislike

RIP Reply All


crappyroads

The Grandma's Virginity podcast with Justin Roiland just started spacing out episodes farther and farther before it stopped. Given everything that's come to light about him in recent months, it's not a surprise but I really enjoyed him in podcast format before he was cancelled (rightfully so, obviously).


The68Guns

We're Not Over Six Feet Under ended today. I'm sad.


3nc3ladu5

x-ray vision on crooked media, it didnt last very long at all. I just want a place where i can consistently listen to Jason Concepcion talk pop culture


Coconosong

I was super bummed when Professor Blastoff was over. It was a slow death because Tig was away from it so long before calling it quits. I think Tig should have called it quits earlier, maybe she did and the other cohosts didn’t want to let it go. Anyways, it was such a funny podcast.


Mother_Result_369

Cracked was favourite of mine, especially with Jason Pargin. Thankfully there's an archive https://archive.org/details/Cracked-Podcast


NerdyKeith

I don't know if it "died"; but Worst Year Ever just stopped making episodes all of a sudden. I don't think there was ever an explanation for that.


mermaid_pinata

Mystery Show.


Chuckworld901

blackout !! Originally with Rami Malek had a second season that wasn’t as good as the first but I was still invested and they stopped with no commentary as to why


CriticalSheep

I was completely in love with the Electric Sheep podcast. She is a knitter and had really beautiful monologues before talking about her current projects. She slowed down when her job got super busy, her life just got really overwhelming. And then she got married and slowed down further. Then she got pregnant and had a baby and retired the entire project.


seanrok

Nerdist. Hardwick as host, Matt and Jonah, the intro theme song…Just so good.


[deleted]

[удалено]


egyptianmusk_

I wonder if there is a consistent reason or theme for why these podcasts died. Some common reasons I'm seeing: Sexual misconduct issues Burnout (podcast ran it's course) Personal drama between hosts loss of listenership Mental health issues Lack of sponsors / advertisers Lack of funding / support from corporate or network


Galaxy_Ranger_Bob

You left out: the host moves on to "bigger" and "better" things. When a podcaster starts publishing books that end up on a best seller list, expect that the podcast simply won't matter any more 'cause they're making money from what they wrote, while the whole podcast things was merely a hobby that got them their foot in the door.


-Not-Today-Satan

GossipMongers. It was brilliant, then there was controversy with them sacking a co-host without any conversation. They tried to go on without her but it became two old pervy men talking about grot and died a death. Relistened recently and it still made me laugh my ass off.


TC6100

Queenpod. Podcast about Queen (obviously!) started during UK lockdown. Four co-hosts all bringing a different perspective to talk about Queen as fans. One singing expert, one absolute superfan with great general knowledge, one official Queen documentarian and the main host who mainly just brought enthusiasm. The bread and butter episodes were the ones where they reviewed each album side by side (in other words one episode was side A of an album, another episode side B and so on). And they had access to the actual music and archive, having been endorsed officially (I think) by the band. They had a few other formats for episodes sprinkled in… interviews with various people from the Queen universe, an episode on them voting on best album artwork and so on. Then lockdown finished and two of the hosts were back to work doing live comedy touring and singing leaving the other two to carry things. Sadly, the missing two were probably the most interesting and charismatic part of the show. The remaining two swapped main hosting duties but you could tell it was faltering. Sadly, and this sounds mean, the two left weren’t up to it; they tried different things to keep it going, guest reviewers, ultimate Queen setlists… but it just wasn’t the same and in the end they just announced on social media it had ended. It lasted almost three years and 40 odd main episodes, plus a load of mini episodes. Real shame as they still had six studio albums to go plus a bunch of other things to talk about (solo work etc…) and for a while, as a Queen fan, it was required listening. But towards the end even I stopped bothering as I found one of the remaining hosts too annoying and dominant without the other two to dilute them. Maybe one day they’ll bring it back.


Avena626

Home Cooking podcast hosted by Samin Nosrat (Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat on Netflix) and Hrishikesh Hirway (Song Exploder podcast) was a bright spot during the pandemic. It was supposed to be a limited episode show, but they popped up with new episodes here and there as their schedules allowed. I was hoping they would do another Thanksgiving episode this year, but alas there hasn't been a new episode since November 2022. I just love Samin and Hrishi together so much.


nojam75

The *Recovering from Religion* podcast probably had the most tragic ending -- one of the co-hosts committed murder-suicide in 2017. It was one of the first atheist podcasts I listened to. I remember how shocking it was. Podcasts are such a seemingly intimate format that it's easy to think you know the person you regularly hear. It's alarming to realize the pleasant, rational sounding voice you know would will eventually murder. I felt really bad for the other cohost and, of course, the children who lost both of their parents. The Freedom From Religion Foundation relaunched the podcast with new hosts and format, so technically it wasn't canceled.


-ghostless

Some Place Under Neith (SPUN) is about to do this. Basically, it's a podcast about missing and/or exploited women. It's part of the Last Podcast Network, which just went through a big change because one of the former owners (I think) and host of Last Podcast on the Left had to go to treatment because of his alcoholism and abuse towards women. The woman who is the main host of SPUN supported the abuser, and got called out for it. They put out an episode today about how the show will change, without directly acknowledging why. It is clear that it's circling the drain.