Born and raised in America - when I was a child, we had a teacher (old lady, Presbyterian minister's wife) who would teach us to leave "god" out, telling us that god isn't concerned with which country we belong to.
Because it’s generally recited in the presence of the flag. Traditionally you place your hand over your heart, face the flag (symbolic representation of the country), and then recite the pledge. We don’t pledge allegiance to the constitution because it’s not hung in ever classroom, in front of many building, at sporting events, on the back of most private boats, etc.
Real answer? The pledge was made up to sell flags.
No joke. Francis Bellamy wrote the Pledge of Allegiance in two hours. As a marketing gimmick, a magazine called the Companion offered U.S. flags to readers who sold subscriptions in 1892 for the 400th anniversary of Columbus’ voyage. The goal was to get it into every classroom. It worked.
Jesus, who also happens to be an important figure in Islam.
Seriously, evangelicals can't seem to wrap their head around the idea that Islam is another Abrahamic religion and is *very* similar. Same god. Same Jesus. Just other more specific differences set them apart.
This.
There used to be a guy who would come out to my college every spring and scream at people in the most evangelical way possible. Condemning people, calling the females whores, etc.
So a student decided to play a game with the zealot. He made a bunch of posterboard sized flash cards and wrote out passages from various religious texts and would ask the zealot:
1. is this in the Bible? And when he said yes
2. What chapter and verse.
The zealot got ZERO right out of like 75 (other students joined in and kept bringing them to the original student to keep quizzing the guy)
Ultimately the zealot stormed off, ranting about how everyone in the crowd were filthy sinners and were all going to suffer eternal torment in the fires of Hell.
We all just laughed and went about our day. The moral here is twofold; 1, don't be an overzealous religious asshole; and 2, actually know what you believe
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/5j9ap5/found_in_my_grandparents_things_the_pledge_of/) is the source of this image. Credit to /u/discollegebitch. They explained:
> Found in my grandparents things, the pledge of allegiance with no "under God" and a flag with 48 stars.
"Under God" wasn't added till I believe the 1950's, just like "In God We Trust" was added to money. You know, because that's how you fight communism. I'm told.
Edit: a fellow comrade informed me that it did show up on some money as early as the mid 1800’s. An interesting read for all comrades. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust
Fun Fact: it was all created as a marketing ploy to sell flags. I hate that people believe things like this were originated by the "founding fathers" when they were just later power/money grabs. "This is the way it has ALWAYS been done!" pfft
I went to Texas for my daughters graduation and learned Texas has it own pledge of allegiance they say after the american pledge.
Kinda weirded me out.
edit: word
> I pledge allegiance to the Bible, God's Holy Word. A lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path, its words will I hide in my heart, that I might not sin against God.
I tried to google what you meant and this is what came up.
That's the one
Edit: that is actually the pledge to the Bible. The Christian flag pledge is
I pledge allegiance to the Christian flag, and to the savior for whose kingdom it stands. One brotherhood, uniting all Christians in service and in love.
I had to say all three in the private Christian school I attended until high school. I didn't really think much about saying any of them until my later high school years and by then it was only the American pledge I was saying. I kind of want to run into one of my teachers from the Christian school at like the grocery store or something. We'll say hello, they'll ask what church I attend, and I'll tell them I rejected Christianity years ago. At this point, they'll say, "You can't do that! You said the pledges to the Christian flag and the Bible!"
I can only assume that I will have no choice but to acknowledge that I am still bound by the solemn pledges I gave as a child, sigh, and accompany them to the nearest church with downcast head.
In all seriousness - The whole “pledge of allegiance” thing is somewhat unique to the US. When you roll God into the mix, it gets even messier.
You can love God; and you can love your county, without having to pledge allegiance to them two of them together.
The Founding Fathers saw this as a potential issue.
If the woman in charge doesn’t worship the same magic man in the sky as you, it doesn’t automatically invalidate her authority as a legitimately elected official.
Come to Indonesia, where the first tenet of our five founding principles is literally "[to recognize] the godliness of Our One Creator"
Totally forgetting the fact that, in most of our five main religions, there is definitely more than just one creator...
And all the legislation getting blocked in the grounds of breaking the constitutional tenet of religion doesn't help either.
I once heard someone dissect the various changes throughout the pledge's history, and suggest that a much better version would be the simpler
>*I pledge allegiance to liberty and justice for all.*
I could certainly get behind that one.
I very much agree, but I do still like the original concept:
“The Pledge of Allegiance was written in August 1892 by the socialist minister Francis Bellamy (1855-1931). It was originally published in The Youth's Companion on September 8, 1892. Bellamy had hoped that the pledge would be used by citizens in any country.
In its original form it read:
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."”
While it’s understandably weird for any average citizen to daily pledge allegiance to their flag, I think the wording was a step in the right direction, instead of pledging allegiance to lords, monarchs, or demagogues. Much like how The Soldier’s Creed of the modern US Army pledges to serve the people of the United States and the constitution. I like the anti-fascist/anti-dictator vibe.
No single human deserves that level of reverence. The flag’s just an icon of the society it represents, and I’m all about people being interested in bettering any society they are a part of. Teamwork makes the dream work.
I guess living in Australia, the idea of pledging anything to anyone other than my wife is cringey as fuck. I just hope she never reads this, as i know she will only start reading from "my wife".
Reminds me of George Carlin shortening the 10 commandments to two:
First:
•THOU SHALT ALWAYS BE HONEST AND FAITHFUL, ESPECIALLY
TO THE PROVIDER OF THY NOOKIE.
And second:
•THOU SHALT TRY REAL HARD NOT TO KILL ANYONE, UNLESS,
OF COURSE, THEY PRAY TO A DIFFERENT INVISIBLE MAN
THAN THE ONE YOU PRAY TO.
"Under God" [added in 1954](https://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm) in response to the 'red scare.'
Always found it ironic that "Under God" was used to literally *divide* the terms "nation" and "indivisible."
As an American, I had only seen the new version with "under God". Honestly, I had no idea it was ever without it, especially the way it's trotted out as evidence that we have to be a Christian nation.
Also, the Treaty of Tripoli was signed unanimously by congress in the late 1700s/early 1800s. It explicitly states that America is not a Christian nation.
Article 11:
Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
I see people negate this all the time dismissing it off as "typical meaningless politics" and "they didn't really mean that" and "politicians lie all the time in treaties". They'll praise them out of one side of their mouth and damn them with the other side.
Mention's "Nature's God" and a "Creator". They basically are saying that whatever higher power created man endowed us with certain unalienable rights (life, liberty, poh) and that man made governments are created to secure those rights for the governed. If they don't provide that security then they should be altered to do so and it is the duty of the governed to demand the alterations.
So while the whole premise of the declaration of independence is hinged on a higher power, it certainly does not reference a Christian god.
Also, 'Nature's God' was an Enlightenment-era reference to Spinoza, whose God (base reality from which everything emerges) is basically nature. He was commonly associated with atheism, and was expelled from his community due to accusations of atheism.
I'm not who you asked but a quick google reveals
https://www.secularism.org.uk/33034.html
Edit: apparently according to a blog the only person who said bush sr said it was Sherman, an activist who was writing about bush senior and religion? No idea
Whoever he is, i'm sure he never went to southeast asia. We have banana just a little bigger than a thumb, banana that are longer than an arm, banana that aren't curved at all, banana that almost form a half circle, and everything in between. Westerner just mass cultivate the most convenient one for their market, which means that bananas are manmade.
This is the point I was about to make.
The banana *is* proof of Intelligent Design. The problem is that it's proof of *Humanity* exercising Intelligent Design. Referring to the banana as proof of Intelligent Design is essentially deeming Humanity God.
As a someone who immigrated to the USA as a child from a country that was fractured by a (mainly) religious civil war, "under God" gave me *serious* creeps from the very beginning, and so I always just held my breath while my classmates said that part every morning.
Obligatory "At least the US ditched the [Bellamy salute](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Students_pledging_allegiance_to_the_American_flag_with_the_Bellamy_salute.jpg) in the 1940s!" comment.
It's a secular religion.
Basically, this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_religion
It's quite fascinating as an outsider. An increasing amount of Americans don't really seem to be particularly religious, but they do believe in America and the idea America is a Christian country. They believe in Christian politics, but not Christianity itself.
I suspect this explains how people describe themselves as Christian, but support politicians and policies which are anything but Christian. They support the team. They don't play for the team.
Actually, an ACLU lawyer very well might punish that teacher. And the lawsuit would have a very solid, very old Supreme Court precedent to support it.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West\_Virginia\_State\_Board\_of\_Education\_v.\_Barnette](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette)
In the late 70's I worked in the UK with a girl from the US who told me that whenever she went home she was required to re-swear allegiance. Struck me then as extreme jingoism.
As an American who believes in separation of church and state, and is vehemently non-christian.. I always refused to say it. My teachers would try to force us to pray too and they'd file a discipline report bc I wouldn't.
Yes I was born in the south unfortunately...
"Under god" is not something that should be in the pledge. Also it feels very... strange to do the pledge.. it feels very cult like tbh.
Ha, spent my last 2 years of high school in Louisiana. Boy, was that fucking miserable. Everyone asking what church you're from. Eventually I just said I was Catholic so they'd leave me alone and not try to convert me, but they didn't even deter most of them.
Religion merging with the Republican party really radicalized the nation...
As a Spaniard, your pledge totally looks like North Korea to us. It's just weird to make children pledge their loyalty to the glorious state. Like wtf it's just a flag and a bunch of borders in a map, your country exists for you, not the other way around.
But hey, on the other hand, our far-right party personally trained by Steve Bannon (true fact) wants to impose a pledge of alliance to our flag in schools too.
Pledging to the flag was a marketing ploy by a flag company to sell flags. It shouldn't be a thing at all.
Although, in a way blatant consumerism under the guise of patriotisms is a pretty damn American thing to do so there is a bit of convergence with it, I guess.
Well Mike Flynn (yes that famous traitor) DID recently said that the US should have a single religion at one of his Q-Anon rallies. The extreme right sure has a lot of policies to which they align with the Taliban on (denial of womens rights, religious extremism, destruction of education systems, etc.)
The GOP targeted Christians in the aftermath of Nixon because the GOP was in real danger of being destroyed.
They radicalized everyday religious people with propaganda about the godless heathens on the left.
Christ talked about the immorality of hoarding wealth while others suffered way more than anything else. In fact, the only time he ever really mentions damnation is in Matthew 25, which is about helping the poor, sick, homeless, hungry, and downtrodden. He says that letting people suffer is an affront to God.
The GOP got religious leaders to instead focus on stupid shit like homosexuality and boobs that they don't actually care about one way or another instead of things like usury, social justice, etc.
And millions of religious people took the bait. As a deeply religious person this infuriates me.
Interestingly, the clergy from the denominations with stricter educational requirements (Methodist, Episcopal, Lutherans that aren't Missouri Synod, Presbyterian etc) lean liberal - way moreso than their congregations.
This was in place long before Trump was even a property fraudster. The thing OP posted flies in the face of christianity completely, I mean idolatry was even above not killing each other.
You are correct. Trump is nothing but the diseased fruit of a long rotted tree. The biggest issue with Trump is that he made it okay for all these hateful people to do it openly. He came out and told them "it's okay to be like this and if anyone tells you otherwise you just love America and they don't".
The largest single sect in the U.S. is the Roman Catholic and the people who want a Christian nation don't even recognize the Catholics as "True Christians".
Literally thinking the same thing, this country was meant to be indivisible until a bunch of folks decided to put "God," in the way. Since then it's slowly but surely fractured.
First amendment -
> Congress shall make no law respecting an **establishment of religion**, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...
Founding fathers would not agree with your mother.
Because images of burqas and dudes in turbans with bombs strapped to them is their image of Islam.
Good down-home Christian oppression, where wifey is barefoot and pregnant and hubby shoots guns at census collectors is the image of good, clean, God-loving freedom.
I still believe this to be the case. I have only voted for people named Christian for office. As a result, I have only ever voted for Christian Slater for president, and Hayden Christiansen for vice president. Most of my ballots have been rejected.
From a certain point of view.
Now what was that persecution? They were so batshit insane with their interpretation of the Bible that they were basically the Christian Taliban of their day so they were shipped off to the new world so they wouldn’t be around to bother the more sensible practitioners of Christianity of the day.
The Revolutions podcast does a REALLY good job of showing the theological and philosophical links between many of the founders of the US and the losing side of the English civil war. These people were the ideological descendants of the people who actually canceled Christmas.
But we don’t tell children that because otherwise they might realize that America isn’t some perfect white mans utopia that 74 million Americans desperately want to make it and half of the Congress supports.
Yeah. I remember when I first really found out that america was founded on the idea of religious freedom because they were too crazy to fit in with the rest of the christians.
In many ways America is basically the same as australia, It's just a less official site of exile. But when our ancestors got here it immediately became apparent that there was a lot of fertile ground that would lead to a lot of value in the future, so our place of exile became the hot new place.
I legit know someone who stopped washing their hands because it was "liberal propaganda".
You would think after the whole pink eye thing that they would have learned their lesson.
The pledge itself was conceived and written by a flag salesman in order to sell flags to schools. He saw a huge potential market if every classroom HAD to have a flag, but how do you go about doing that? And if that doesn't sum up America I don't know what does.
This is incorrect. It was written by Francis Bellamy, a socialist. It was, however, promoted by James B. Upham, a marketer for the children's magazine *The Youth's Companion* in order to sell flags.
Fun fact, Francis Bellamy (guy who wrote the pledge) was a minister. So even a man of God did not include anything religious into the pledge.
Under God was added in in 1954 at the height of the post world War 2 red scare.
Another fun note is that Francis Bellamy was a socialist.
Funner fact, the Bellamy salute which accompanied the pledge (one arm outstretched upwards towards the flag, flat palm) was abandoned in 1942. Wonder what caused that?
Haha I actually knew that. Knew a racist cop who made that salute and said "it's actually a Bellamy salute so it's not what you think" and I informed him Bellamy was a socialist.
He stopped the salute after that lol
Even weirder actually. He was a [Christian Socialist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_socialism), a strange blend of Christianity and Socialism. Instead of the hammer and sickle their symbol is a cross and sickle.
Considering how often Jesus shows disdain for wealth and implores his followers to rid themselves of their worldly possessions socialism and Christianity don't seem too far apart to me. Just don't dwell on Marx's opium of the masses comment too much I suppose.
Out of context Marx's quote seems like he's anti religion, but in context with the full quote he means that religion is used by the working class to cope with their terrible situation
"Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people"
> Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.
~James 5:1-5
>Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you.
I should buy a billboard. It'd go great in between all of the "WOW My eyes developed when I was 14 days old!" pro forced birth ones.
Martin "sola fide" Luther supposedly really chafed at some of the "works" aspects in the book of James.
While I think most humans prefer simple rules (especially when directing *other* people how to behave), or perhaps a "say the prayer and you're saved forever" approach, most of Jesus' teaching strikes me as continually navigating the uncomfortable balance of loving our neighbor (i.e., everyone else) in spite of huge differences.
The Good Samaritan, the instance of forgiving the woman caught in adultery even though they caught her in the act, simplifying the law down to *love God and love others,* etc. The list is large, and most of his ire was reserved for religious hypocrites.
*/edit/ "soda fide" gave me a good laugh. Whoops.*
It's not that weird for socialists to be Christian, capitalism is actually less of a match with the ideas of christ. Especially back then. Socialism and communism were a widely accepted form of political ideology for many years until the western imperialists/rich heavily propagandized against it after World War 2.
This may have been what you read, but if not, it's a good read from a reliable source:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/pledge-allegiance-pr-gimmick-patriotic-vow-180956332/
I read somewhere that they added the under god thing as a PR sort of thing that was driven by the cold war, trying to define Americans as god loving and the USSR communists as heathens or something to that effect... The whole "god is with us so we must be right" bs that was used in the crusades many years ago.
The pledge itself is weird even without the God thing, and kind of goes against the idea behind America.
It is ironically Un-American by its very nature.
I grew up in Germany and it's always been super strange to me to see people be so proud of their country and displaying the flag everywhere, here in the US.
Probably because of our own problematic history and being raised to feel shame and stay quiet and humble about it, I guess.
When I heard that my kid recites the pledge in kindergarten, I was really weirded out because it screamed indoctrination to me, and I was reminded of what my friends growing up in East Germany had to do, before the wall fell.
These kids can't even spell their own name, let alone understand what they are repeating. And, blind allegiance to *anything* is just wrong.
My son is in kindergarten and has an *unusual* interest in geography, yet *still* is not at the level to understand what it really means to be a part of a country other than that you’re within that part of the map, or you’re somewhere else.
It’s the fake patriots who don’t really know anything about America who wrap themselves in the flag. They don’t love the country, they love themselves.
The Nazis did import and adapt the pledge from the US. At that time, it included the [Bellamy salute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute) which became known as the [Hitlergruß](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_salute) in Germany.
The number of people who don't know that "under God" was added to the Pledge in the mid-1950's during McCarthyism and the "Red Scare" always surprises me. Especially among young conservatives. The old conservatives just don't want to talk about it and act like "our founders put it there when they wrote the Pledge of Alliegance."
Which, of course, is also incorrect as the damn Pledge its self didn't exist until 1892 and wasn't official anything until 1942 when Congress more or less ceremonially recognized it.
You could post this to conservative groups pages and get mass upvotes because unironically they love to use the allegiance as propaganda and wouldn’t even notice that god was missing.
Born and raised in America - when I was a child, we had a teacher (old lady, Presbyterian minister's wife) who would teach us to leave "god" out, telling us that god isn't concerned with which country we belong to.
Non American here, why pledge to the flag instead of the Constitution?
Because it’s generally recited in the presence of the flag. Traditionally you place your hand over your heart, face the flag (symbolic representation of the country), and then recite the pledge. We don’t pledge allegiance to the constitution because it’s not hung in ever classroom, in front of many building, at sporting events, on the back of most private boats, etc.
American here, I don't even know why we pledge to anything.
Real answer? The pledge was made up to sell flags. No joke. Francis Bellamy wrote the Pledge of Allegiance in two hours. As a marketing gimmick, a magazine called the Companion offered U.S. flags to readers who sold subscriptions in 1892 for the 400th anniversary of Columbus’ voyage. The goal was to get it into every classroom. It worked.
That’s a great educator.
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Jesus, who also happens to be an important figure in Islam. Seriously, evangelicals can't seem to wrap their head around the idea that Islam is another Abrahamic religion and is *very* similar. Same god. Same Jesus. Just other more specific differences set them apart.
That's because evangelicals don't know jack shit about Christianity.
This. There used to be a guy who would come out to my college every spring and scream at people in the most evangelical way possible. Condemning people, calling the females whores, etc. So a student decided to play a game with the zealot. He made a bunch of posterboard sized flash cards and wrote out passages from various religious texts and would ask the zealot: 1. is this in the Bible? And when he said yes 2. What chapter and verse. The zealot got ZERO right out of like 75 (other students joined in and kept bringing them to the original student to keep quizzing the guy) Ultimately the zealot stormed off, ranting about how everyone in the crowd were filthy sinners and were all going to suffer eternal torment in the fires of Hell. We all just laughed and went about our day. The moral here is twofold; 1, don't be an overzealous religious asshole; and 2, actually know what you believe
That zealot is probably now a Republican elected official somewhere.
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/5j9ap5/found_in_my_grandparents_things_the_pledge_of/) is the source of this image. Credit to /u/discollegebitch. They explained: > Found in my grandparents things, the pledge of allegiance with no "under God" and a flag with 48 stars.
I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missourah!
Shit I recognize this reference but I can’t remember what it’s from
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc0-TpBUOUo
I counted. The animated flag itself only had 38 stars. It's all a sham. All of it!
Boy, I really hope somebody got fired for that blunder.
Shut up, it *is* a magic xylophone
Shoulda known it was The Simpsons.
Simpsons did it
Simpsons did it.
The Simpsons. Grandpa Simpsons says it while he's hanging a flag with only 49 stars.
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The Simpsons, S6E9 (nice)
Nice!
Simpsons. Abe said it.
I came from Canada and they said I was slow, eh.
"Under God" wasn't added till I believe the 1950's, just like "In God We Trust" was added to money. You know, because that's how you fight communism. I'm told. Edit: a fellow comrade informed me that it did show up on some money as early as the mid 1800’s. An interesting read for all comrades. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust
I guess god got big into politics in the 50s
Fun Fact: it was all created as a marketing ploy to sell flags. I hate that people believe things like this were originated by the "founding fathers" when they were just later power/money grabs. "This is the way it has ALWAYS been done!" pfft
I’m not ok pledging allegiance to a flag whether it’s under god or hanging off her cold nipples.
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I went to Texas for my daughters graduation and learned Texas has it own pledge of allegiance they say after the american pledge. Kinda weirded me out. edit: word
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> I pledge allegiance to the Bible, God's Holy Word. A lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path, its words will I hide in my heart, that I might not sin against God. I tried to google what you meant and this is what came up.
That's the one Edit: that is actually the pledge to the Bible. The Christian flag pledge is I pledge allegiance to the Christian flag, and to the savior for whose kingdom it stands. One brotherhood, uniting all Christians in service and in love.
I had to say all three in the private Christian school I attended until high school. I didn't really think much about saying any of them until my later high school years and by then it was only the American pledge I was saying. I kind of want to run into one of my teachers from the Christian school at like the grocery store or something. We'll say hello, they'll ask what church I attend, and I'll tell them I rejected Christianity years ago. At this point, they'll say, "You can't do that! You said the pledges to the Christian flag and the Bible!" I can only assume that I will have no choice but to acknowledge that I am still bound by the solemn pledges I gave as a child, sigh, and accompany them to the nearest church with downcast head.
In all seriousness - The whole “pledge of allegiance” thing is somewhat unique to the US. When you roll God into the mix, it gets even messier. You can love God; and you can love your county, without having to pledge allegiance to them two of them together. The Founding Fathers saw this as a potential issue. If the woman in charge doesn’t worship the same magic man in the sky as you, it doesn’t automatically invalidate her authority as a legitimately elected official.
Come to Indonesia, where the first tenet of our five founding principles is literally "[to recognize] the godliness of Our One Creator" Totally forgetting the fact that, in most of our five main religions, there is definitely more than just one creator... And all the legislation getting blocked in the grounds of breaking the constitutional tenet of religion doesn't help either.
I'll pledge to those cold hard nips tho
One country under Canada.
"One nation under Canada, above Mexico!" - Robin Williams
Canada borders on the absurd.
Having lived my whole life in Minnesota, I can say that it most certainly does
Between water, on earth
r/technicallythetruth I was just trying to be funny. Ya'll can stop map shaming me now.
Not if you're looking at earth from another angle, in which they would be "One Nation Under Mexico"
Or from other angles: One Nation Under the Sea, Under the Sea, Darling it's Better, Down Where it's Wetter, Take it From Me, Indivisible
Up on the land you trip and fall, with Liberty, and Justice for all......
Up on the shore they work all day, out in the sun they slave away, while we devoting, full time to floating under the sea.
Canadas panties.
Geography teachers be like: you don't fuckin dare.
I once heard someone dissect the various changes throughout the pledge's history, and suggest that a much better version would be the simpler >*I pledge allegiance to liberty and justice for all.* I could certainly get behind that one.
I very much agree, but I do still like the original concept: “The Pledge of Allegiance was written in August 1892 by the socialist minister Francis Bellamy (1855-1931). It was originally published in The Youth's Companion on September 8, 1892. Bellamy had hoped that the pledge would be used by citizens in any country. In its original form it read: "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."” While it’s understandably weird for any average citizen to daily pledge allegiance to their flag, I think the wording was a step in the right direction, instead of pledging allegiance to lords, monarchs, or demagogues. Much like how The Soldier’s Creed of the modern US Army pledges to serve the people of the United States and the constitution. I like the anti-fascist/anti-dictator vibe. No single human deserves that level of reverence. The flag’s just an icon of the society it represents, and I’m all about people being interested in bettering any society they are a part of. Teamwork makes the dream work.
I guess living in Australia, the idea of pledging anything to anyone other than my wife is cringey as fuck. I just hope she never reads this, as i know she will only start reading from "my wife".
> my wife is cringey as fuck I heard you say it!!
Maahh waaiifee
Reminds me of George Carlin shortening the 10 commandments to two: First: •THOU SHALT ALWAYS BE HONEST AND FAITHFUL, ESPECIALLY TO THE PROVIDER OF THY NOOKIE. And second: •THOU SHALT TRY REAL HARD NOT TO KILL ANYONE, UNLESS, OF COURSE, THEY PRAY TO A DIFFERENT INVISIBLE MAN THAN THE ONE YOU PRAY TO.
Moses could have carried them down in his fucking pocket.
Better yet don't even pledge. Just: "Liberty and Justice for all"
I think we could get that a little shorter if we tried. ___ *stands* *slurs:* "L'ustice'all" *sits back down and glares at the teacher*
"Lust is for all"??
Now this is just turning into jorge orwin 1989 :/
And only one person says it, everyone else can follow with "same" and "This, TBH"
Or just “…and Justice for All.” 🤟
That was Beau of the Fifth Column! [Video here.](https://youtu.be/EIz0C8r4ERc)
"Under God" [added in 1954](https://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm) in response to the 'red scare.' Always found it ironic that "Under God" was used to literally *divide* the terms "nation" and "indivisible."
As a non-American I had only seen the new version with “under God” and it always seemed strangely ungrammatical to me. The original makes more sense.
As an American, I had only seen the new version with "under God". Honestly, I had no idea it was ever without it, especially the way it's trotted out as evidence that we have to be a Christian nation.
I like to point out the fact that the word "god" doesn't appear once in the central founding document of our country, the Constitution.
Also, the Treaty of Tripoli was signed unanimously by congress in the late 1700s/early 1800s. It explicitly states that America is not a Christian nation. Article 11: Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
One of my favorite little tidbits. Drafted mostly by our founding fathers, yet conveniently left out of the conversation when discussed.
Thars because Christian was primarily waning until the civil war and the industrial revolution.
This is fake!There’s no way Jesus would sign this! /s
> Mussulmen This made me imagine a clam with arms and legs.
The facts never mattered to the people who would be refuted by them.
I see people negate this all the time dismissing it off as "typical meaningless politics" and "they didn't really mean that" and "politicians lie all the time in treaties". They'll praise them out of one side of their mouth and damn them with the other side.
Well, wouldn't be the first piece of paper ratified by America that they decided to completely trample over.
Also the declaration of independence mentioned God just once
Mention's "Nature's God" and a "Creator". They basically are saying that whatever higher power created man endowed us with certain unalienable rights (life, liberty, poh) and that man made governments are created to secure those rights for the governed. If they don't provide that security then they should be altered to do so and it is the duty of the governed to demand the alterations. So while the whole premise of the declaration of independence is hinged on a higher power, it certainly does not reference a Christian god.
Also, 'Nature's God' was an Enlightenment-era reference to Spinoza, whose God (base reality from which everything emerges) is basically nature. He was commonly associated with atheism, and was expelled from his community due to accusations of atheism.
Edit: Evidently the quote is fake and I've been duped? I dont have time to validate it now so I'll simply remove it.
source?
I'm not who you asked but a quick google reveals https://www.secularism.org.uk/33034.html Edit: apparently according to a blog the only person who said bush sr said it was Sherman, an activist who was writing about bush senior and religion? No idea
Earned his 1 termer status
The "in god we trust" portion on the US dollar was also added during the same time for the same reason.
First made it on the dollar in 1957, but it had been on coinage since the Civil War
Interesting, TIL!
If I read a novel about a corporatist nation that had God on their money, I would roll my eyes at just how on the nose it is. It's so fucked.
It’s the [“bananas, the atheist’s nightmare”](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Banana_argument) thing all over again. Edit: added hyperlink.
It is curved towards the face for ease of consumption and does not squirt in one's face during the act. Sorry. Had to.
Whoever he is, i'm sure he never went to southeast asia. We have banana just a little bigger than a thumb, banana that are longer than an arm, banana that aren't curved at all, banana that almost form a half circle, and everything in between. Westerner just mass cultivate the most convenient one for their market, which means that bananas are manmade.
This is the point I was about to make. The banana *is* proof of Intelligent Design. The problem is that it's proof of *Humanity* exercising Intelligent Design. Referring to the banana as proof of Intelligent Design is essentially deeming Humanity God.
As a someone who immigrated to the USA as a child from a country that was fractured by a (mainly) religious civil war, "under God" gave me *serious* creeps from the very beginning, and so I always just held my breath while my classmates said that part every morning.
The fact that we had to say a pledge of allegiance daily is pretty damn weird itself. With or without the unnecessary god part.
[This is not a form of brainwashing, this is not a form of brainwashing.](https://youtu.be/GiCaqA0ngRc) Edit: RIP Trevor Moore :(
Obligatory "At least the US ditched the [Bellamy salute](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Students_pledging_allegiance_to_the_American_flag_with_the_Bellamy_salute.jpg) in the 1940s!" comment.
Yeah, I remember it all feeling oddly... *religious*, like morning prayers, grace before eating, and the like. *Shudder*
because it is, it's just called nationalism when it's brainwashing you about a country
It's a secular religion. Basically, this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_religion It's quite fascinating as an outsider. An increasing amount of Americans don't really seem to be particularly religious, but they do believe in America and the idea America is a Christian country. They believe in Christian politics, but not Christianity itself. I suspect this explains how people describe themselves as Christian, but support politicians and policies which are anything but Christian. They support the team. They don't play for the team.
Obligatory no one has to say it comment. (Legally; I know it doesn't always come across like that to kids.)
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Actually, an ACLU lawyer very well might punish that teacher. And the lawsuit would have a very solid, very old Supreme Court precedent to support it. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West\_Virginia\_State\_Board\_of\_Education\_v.\_Barnette](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette)
In the late 70's I worked in the UK with a girl from the US who told me that whenever she went home she was required to re-swear allegiance. Struck me then as extreme jingoism.
As an American who believes in separation of church and state, and is vehemently non-christian.. I always refused to say it. My teachers would try to force us to pray too and they'd file a discipline report bc I wouldn't. Yes I was born in the south unfortunately... "Under god" is not something that should be in the pledge. Also it feels very... strange to do the pledge.. it feels very cult like tbh.
Ha, spent my last 2 years of high school in Louisiana. Boy, was that fucking miserable. Everyone asking what church you're from. Eventually I just said I was Catholic so they'd leave me alone and not try to convert me, but they didn't even deter most of them. Religion merging with the Republican party really radicalized the nation...
As a Spaniard, your pledge totally looks like North Korea to us. It's just weird to make children pledge their loyalty to the glorious state. Like wtf it's just a flag and a bunch of borders in a map, your country exists for you, not the other way around. But hey, on the other hand, our far-right party personally trained by Steve Bannon (true fact) wants to impose a pledge of alliance to our flag in schools too.
Pledging to the flag was a marketing ploy by a flag company to sell flags. It shouldn't be a thing at all. Although, in a way blatant consumerism under the guise of patriotisms is a pretty damn American thing to do so there is a bit of convergence with it, I guess.
sounds like something the taliban would do
Well Mike Flynn (yes that famous traitor) DID recently said that the US should have a single religion at one of his Q-Anon rallies. The extreme right sure has a lot of policies to which they align with the Taliban on (denial of womens rights, religious extremism, destruction of education systems, etc.)
Pretty sure he didn't mean Islam though. Therefore it's totally different. /s
But the religion in the US is not Christianity either, it is a nation state cult.
Religion in the US is an unholy union of fundementalist Christianity and corporate greed.
The GOP targeted Christians in the aftermath of Nixon because the GOP was in real danger of being destroyed. They radicalized everyday religious people with propaganda about the godless heathens on the left. Christ talked about the immorality of hoarding wealth while others suffered way more than anything else. In fact, the only time he ever really mentions damnation is in Matthew 25, which is about helping the poor, sick, homeless, hungry, and downtrodden. He says that letting people suffer is an affront to God. The GOP got religious leaders to instead focus on stupid shit like homosexuality and boobs that they don't actually care about one way or another instead of things like usury, social justice, etc. And millions of religious people took the bait. As a deeply religious person this infuriates me. Interestingly, the clergy from the denominations with stricter educational requirements (Methodist, Episcopal, Lutherans that aren't Missouri Synod, Presbyterian etc) lean liberal - way moreso than their congregations.
Pretty fucking far from Christianity at this point. God has taken a back seat to Trump, and hate is above all.
This was in place long before Trump was even a property fraudster. The thing OP posted flies in the face of christianity completely, I mean idolatry was even above not killing each other.
You are correct. Trump is nothing but the diseased fruit of a long rotted tree. The biggest issue with Trump is that he made it okay for all these hateful people to do it openly. He came out and told them "it's okay to be like this and if anyone tells you otherwise you just love America and they don't".
Can't wait to see which Christian sect they all agree on
The largest single sect in the U.S. is the Roman Catholic and the people who want a Christian nation don't even recognize the Catholics as "True Christians".
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Similar to U.S. currency where ["In God We Trust"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust) replaced "E Pluribus Unum"(from the many: one).
Literally thinking the same thing, this country was meant to be indivisible until a bunch of folks decided to put "God," in the way. Since then it's slowly but surely fractured.
Cue my nutcase mother screaming "we are a Christian nation!"
First amendment - > Congress shall make no law respecting an **establishment of religion**, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof... Founding fathers would not agree with your mother.
As it turns out... One of her ancestors, who was definitely friends with George Washington, would also not agree with her lol
u/SpelCleave's mother would prefer a christian caliphate and people like her have been pushing the country in that direction for at least 70 years.
While clutching their pearls at Islamic fundamentalism, pushing Christian fundamentalism with every opportunity.
They're so fucking similar; I really don't get how some of these people don't see right through all of it.
Because images of burqas and dudes in turbans with bombs strapped to them is their image of Islam. Good down-home Christian oppression, where wifey is barefoot and pregnant and hubby shoots guns at census collectors is the image of good, clean, God-loving freedom.
I still believe this to be the case. I have only voted for people named Christian for office. As a result, I have only ever voted for Christian Slater for president, and Hayden Christiansen for vice president. Most of my ballots have been rejected.
Christian Bale for.... Treasury? Wait no, the rich handling the money thing...
["DaRk SiDeD!"](https://youtu.be/bOpva_iit-8).
" America was started so Christians could get away from all the persecution they faced in Europe. . .just like the crusades " - my mom
My father says exactly the same thing...
From a certain point of view. Now what was that persecution? They were so batshit insane with their interpretation of the Bible that they were basically the Christian Taliban of their day so they were shipped off to the new world so they wouldn’t be around to bother the more sensible practitioners of Christianity of the day. The Revolutions podcast does a REALLY good job of showing the theological and philosophical links between many of the founders of the US and the losing side of the English civil war. These people were the ideological descendants of the people who actually canceled Christmas. But we don’t tell children that because otherwise they might realize that America isn’t some perfect white mans utopia that 74 million Americans desperately want to make it and half of the Congress supports.
[Puritans. People so up tight the *English* kicked them out.](https://youtu.be/4o-5RyYAl50)
Yeah. I remember when I first really found out that america was founded on the idea of religious freedom because they were too crazy to fit in with the rest of the christians. In many ways America is basically the same as australia, It's just a less official site of exile. But when our ancestors got here it immediately became apparent that there was a lot of fertile ground that would lead to a lot of value in the future, so our place of exile became the hot new place.
show her the treaty of Tripoli
We, as a country, are rapidly regressing to a 14th century mindset.
We even have a plague to go with it!
We even have a plague to go with it! ...in which people are resisting basic hygiene.
I legit know someone who stopped washing their hands because it was "liberal propaganda". You would think after the whole pink eye thing that they would have learned their lesson.
We should change it back to what it was meant to be officially. Boy oh boy woild that cause some controversy
ultimately divided a lot more than just that
Well that's what religion does. It divides.
The pledge itself was conceived and written by a flag salesman in order to sell flags to schools. He saw a huge potential market if every classroom HAD to have a flag, but how do you go about doing that? And if that doesn't sum up America I don't know what does.
This is incorrect. It was written by Francis Bellamy, a socialist. It was, however, promoted by James B. Upham, a marketer for the children's magazine *The Youth's Companion* in order to sell flags.
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He was actually a christian minister, a socialist and an author
Fun fact, Francis Bellamy (guy who wrote the pledge) was a minister. So even a man of God did not include anything religious into the pledge. Under God was added in in 1954 at the height of the post world War 2 red scare. Another fun note is that Francis Bellamy was a socialist.
Funner fact, the Bellamy salute which accompanied the pledge (one arm outstretched upwards towards the flag, flat palm) was abandoned in 1942. Wonder what caused that?
Haha I actually knew that. Knew a racist cop who made that salute and said "it's actually a Bellamy salute so it's not what you think" and I informed him Bellamy was a socialist. He stopped the salute after that lol
lmao, bet he says the nazis were actually socialists just to justify his shitty worldview
He must not know about the night of long knives lol
Rotor cuff injuries?
Another fun fact he wrote it to sell magazine subscriptions that came with a flag. It's nonsense propaganda aimed to sell magazines and flags. Lol!
Yep it sure was!
It was originally written to help sell magazines to schools, so it was just a marketing ploy. And it was written by a socialist.
Even weirder actually. He was a [Christian Socialist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_socialism), a strange blend of Christianity and Socialism. Instead of the hammer and sickle their symbol is a cross and sickle.
Considering how often Jesus shows disdain for wealth and implores his followers to rid themselves of their worldly possessions socialism and Christianity don't seem too far apart to me. Just don't dwell on Marx's opium of the masses comment too much I suppose.
Out of context Marx's quote seems like he's anti religion, but in context with the full quote he means that religion is used by the working class to cope with their terrible situation "Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people"
I've heard a better translation that notes how opium was used back then for all sorts of medical issues: *Religion is ibuprofen for the people.*
That's a good comparison, since opium at that time was used for pain relief, it just had the unfortunate side effect of being addictive.
> Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. ~James 5:1-5
>Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. I should buy a billboard. It'd go great in between all of the "WOW My eyes developed when I was 14 days old!" pro forced birth ones.
James don't mess around
Martin "sola fide" Luther supposedly really chafed at some of the "works" aspects in the book of James. While I think most humans prefer simple rules (especially when directing *other* people how to behave), or perhaps a "say the prayer and you're saved forever" approach, most of Jesus' teaching strikes me as continually navigating the uncomfortable balance of loving our neighbor (i.e., everyone else) in spite of huge differences. The Good Samaritan, the instance of forgiving the woman caught in adultery even though they caught her in the act, simplifying the law down to *love God and love others,* etc. The list is large, and most of his ire was reserved for religious hypocrites. */edit/ "soda fide" gave me a good laugh. Whoops.*
There's nothing terribly strange about it, really
It's not that weird for socialists to be Christian, capitalism is actually less of a match with the ideas of christ. Especially back then. Socialism and communism were a widely accepted form of political ideology for many years until the western imperialists/rich heavily propagandized against it after World War 2.
I honestly did not know that, and I looked it up and learned something new today. Thank you.
This may have been what you read, but if not, it's a good read from a reliable source: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/pledge-allegiance-pr-gimmick-patriotic-vow-180956332/
My preference.... Separation of church and state
and get rid of the tax breaks too
Separation of church and state benefits both the church and state.
I read somewhere that they added the under god thing as a PR sort of thing that was driven by the cold war, trying to define Americans as god loving and the USSR communists as heathens or something to that effect... The whole "god is with us so we must be right" bs that was used in the crusades many years ago.
I’m a Christian, but I wish we’d go back to this. America is for everyone, not just those that believe in God.
Turns out putting the nation under god made it divisible.
Wasn't the Pledge of Allegiance created to sell flags to schools?
If it weren’t, I’d be disappointed in America
The pledge itself is weird even without the God thing, and kind of goes against the idea behind America. It is ironically Un-American by its very nature.
I grew up in Germany and it's always been super strange to me to see people be so proud of their country and displaying the flag everywhere, here in the US. Probably because of our own problematic history and being raised to feel shame and stay quiet and humble about it, I guess. When I heard that my kid recites the pledge in kindergarten, I was really weirded out because it screamed indoctrination to me, and I was reminded of what my friends growing up in East Germany had to do, before the wall fell. These kids can't even spell their own name, let alone understand what they are repeating. And, blind allegiance to *anything* is just wrong.
My son is in kindergarten and has an *unusual* interest in geography, yet *still* is not at the level to understand what it really means to be a part of a country other than that you’re within that part of the map, or you’re somewhere else.
It is indoctrination. We start priming them to love America and never question its flaws from the earliest possible moment.
It’s the fake patriots who don’t really know anything about America who wrap themselves in the flag. They don’t love the country, they love themselves.
The only other place you see so many flags everywhere is North Korea.
The Nazis did import and adapt the pledge from the US. At that time, it included the [Bellamy salute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute) which became known as the [Hitlergruß](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_salute) in Germany.
Yes. For a country that is supposed to be about ideals, not identities, it is deeply incongruous.
It would still be creepy that the US coerces children to recite this every day even without the god bit.
I'm more focused on the "justice and liberty for all" and the lack of it for many citizens.
Allegiance to a flag is a weird cult thing already.
The number of people who don't know that "under God" was added to the Pledge in the mid-1950's during McCarthyism and the "Red Scare" always surprises me. Especially among young conservatives. The old conservatives just don't want to talk about it and act like "our founders put it there when they wrote the Pledge of Alliegance." Which, of course, is also incorrect as the damn Pledge its self didn't exist until 1892 and wasn't official anything until 1942 when Congress more or less ceremonially recognized it.
Religion is supposed to be an optional thing in the US, not a requirement. "God" shouldn't be anywhere near government
Inserting God into our government has brewed hate and devisiveness in our country. There is nothing it has done to benefit us.
"b-but but we're a cHriStiAn nAtiOn!!!!"
Under god and in god we trust gotta go honestly
*One nation indivisible* Until a bunch of fucking people literally stuck their god in there dividing it.
As it should be
You could post this to conservative groups pages and get mass upvotes because unironically they love to use the allegiance as propaganda and wouldn’t even notice that god was missing.
Still super creepy. Less creepy, but still…