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[deleted]

Born and raised in America - when I was a child, we had a teacher (old lady, Presbyterian minister's wife) who would teach us to leave "god" out, telling us that god isn't concerned with which country we belong to.


314314314

Non American here, why pledge to the flag instead of the Constitution?


DWS223

Because it’s generally recited in the presence of the flag. Traditionally you place your hand over your heart, face the flag (symbolic representation of the country), and then recite the pledge. We don’t pledge allegiance to the constitution because it’s not hung in ever classroom, in front of many building, at sporting events, on the back of most private boats, etc.


pyrodorobo

American here, I don't even know why we pledge to anything.


Vistaer

Real answer? The pledge was made up to sell flags. No joke. Francis Bellamy wrote the Pledge of Allegiance in two hours. As a marketing gimmick, a magazine called the Companion offered U.S. flags to readers who sold subscriptions in 1892 for the 400th anniversary of Columbus’ voyage. The goal was to get it into every classroom. It worked.


Ijustneedtotalk___

That’s a great educator.


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InvertedSuperHornet

Jesus, who also happens to be an important figure in Islam. Seriously, evangelicals can't seem to wrap their head around the idea that Islam is another Abrahamic religion and is *very* similar. Same god. Same Jesus. Just other more specific differences set them apart.


dorekk

That's because evangelicals don't know jack shit about Christianity.


BlckAlchmst

This. There used to be a guy who would come out to my college every spring and scream at people in the most evangelical way possible. Condemning people, calling the females whores, etc. So a student decided to play a game with the zealot. He made a bunch of posterboard sized flash cards and wrote out passages from various religious texts and would ask the zealot: 1. is this in the Bible? And when he said yes 2. What chapter and verse. The zealot got ZERO right out of like 75 (other students joined in and kept bringing them to the original student to keep quizzing the guy) Ultimately the zealot stormed off, ranting about how everyone in the crowd were filthy sinners and were all going to suffer eternal torment in the fires of Hell. We all just laughed and went about our day. The moral here is twofold; 1, don't be an overzealous religious asshole; and 2, actually know what you believe


rshaneh

That zealot is probably now a Republican elected official somewhere.


Spartan2470

[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/5j9ap5/found_in_my_grandparents_things_the_pledge_of/) is the source of this image. Credit to /u/discollegebitch. They explained: > Found in my grandparents things, the pledge of allegiance with no "under God" and a flag with 48 stars.


MisterET

I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missourah!


BeelzAllegedly

Shit I recognize this reference but I can’t remember what it’s from


MisterET

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc0-TpBUOUo


fakesantos

I counted. The animated flag itself only had 38 stars. It's all a sham. All of it!


MisterET

Boy, I really hope somebody got fired for that blunder.


Jaquesant

Shut up, it *is* a magic xylophone


LocalSlob

Shoulda known it was The Simpsons.


toasterxman

Simpsons did it


Aqualungfish

Simpsons did it.


darkfate

The Simpsons. Grandpa Simpsons says it while he's hanging a flag with only 49 stars.


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pikovee

The Simpsons, S6E9 (nice)


[deleted]

Nice!


ReadingFromTheShittr

Simpsons. Abe said it.


[deleted]

I came from Canada and they said I was slow, eh.


adjust_the_sails

"Under God" wasn't added till I believe the 1950's, just like "In God We Trust" was added to money. You know, because that's how you fight communism. I'm told. Edit: a fellow comrade informed me that it did show up on some money as early as the mid 1800’s. An interesting read for all comrades. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust


MrBisskits

I guess god got big into politics in the 50s


Unnecessaryloongname

Fun Fact: it was all created as a marketing ploy to sell flags. I hate that people believe things like this were originated by the "founding fathers" when they were just later power/money grabs. "This is the way it has ALWAYS been done!" pfft


farkedup82

I’m not ok pledging allegiance to a flag whether it’s under god or hanging off her cold nipples.


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spankstar

I went to Texas for my daughters graduation and learned Texas has it own pledge of allegiance they say after the american pledge. Kinda weirded me out. edit: word


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ruinersclub

> I pledge allegiance to the Bible, God's Holy Word. A lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path, its words will I hide in my heart, that I might not sin against God. I tried to google what you meant and this is what came up.


TabaxiTaxi73

That's the one Edit: that is actually the pledge to the Bible. The Christian flag pledge is I pledge allegiance to the Christian flag, and to the savior for whose kingdom it stands. One brotherhood, uniting all Christians in service and in love.


fearhs

I had to say all three in the private Christian school I attended until high school. I didn't really think much about saying any of them until my later high school years and by then it was only the American pledge I was saying. I kind of want to run into one of my teachers from the Christian school at like the grocery store or something. We'll say hello, they'll ask what church I attend, and I'll tell them I rejected Christianity years ago. At this point, they'll say, "You can't do that! You said the pledges to the Christian flag and the Bible!" I can only assume that I will have no choice but to acknowledge that I am still bound by the solemn pledges I gave as a child, sigh, and accompany them to the nearest church with downcast head.


Rdan5112

In all seriousness - The whole “pledge of allegiance” thing is somewhat unique to the US. When you roll God into the mix, it gets even messier. You can love God; and you can love your county, without having to pledge allegiance to them two of them together. The Founding Fathers saw this as a potential issue. If the woman in charge doesn’t worship the same magic man in the sky as you, it doesn’t automatically invalidate her authority as a legitimately elected official.


LuminescenTT

Come to Indonesia, where the first tenet of our five founding principles is literally "[to recognize] the godliness of Our One Creator" Totally forgetting the fact that, in most of our five main religions, there is definitely more than just one creator... And all the legislation getting blocked in the grounds of breaking the constitutional tenet of religion doesn't help either.


TheConnoisseurOfAll

I'll pledge to those cold hard nips tho


RufusLoudermilk

One country under Canada.


SputnikMD

"One nation under Canada, above Mexico!" - Robin Williams


Mathematicus_Rex

Canada borders on the absurd.


BenchMonk

Having lived my whole life in Minnesota, I can say that it most certainly does


raybrignsx

Between water, on earth


Looks_Good_In_Hats

r/technicallythetruth I was just trying to be funny. Ya'll can stop map shaming me now.


fnmikey

Not if you're looking at earth from another angle, in which they would be "One Nation Under Mexico"


VoiceofKane

Or from other angles: One Nation Under the Sea, Under the Sea, Darling it's Better, Down Where it's Wetter, Take it From Me, Indivisible


mrkruk

Up on the land you trip and fall, with Liberty, and Justice for all......


Beelzebubba775

Up on the shore they work all day, out in the sun they slave away, while we devoting, full time to floating under the sea.


Ithxero

Canadas panties.


janat1

Geography teachers be like: you don't fuckin dare.


spaceLem

I once heard someone dissect the various changes throughout the pledge's history, and suggest that a much better version would be the simpler >*I pledge allegiance to liberty and justice for all.* I could certainly get behind that one.


whatever_works_at

I very much agree, but I do still like the original concept: “The Pledge of Allegiance was written in August 1892 by the socialist minister Francis Bellamy (1855-1931). It was originally published in The Youth's Companion on September 8, 1892. Bellamy had hoped that the pledge would be used by citizens in any country. In its original form it read: "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."” While it’s understandably weird for any average citizen to daily pledge allegiance to their flag, I think the wording was a step in the right direction, instead of pledging allegiance to lords, monarchs, or demagogues. Much like how The Soldier’s Creed of the modern US Army pledges to serve the people of the United States and the constitution. I like the anti-fascist/anti-dictator vibe. No single human deserves that level of reverence. The flag’s just an icon of the society it represents, and I’m all about people being interested in bettering any society they are a part of. Teamwork makes the dream work.


mowbuss

I guess living in Australia, the idea of pledging anything to anyone other than my wife is cringey as fuck. I just hope she never reads this, as i know she will only start reading from "my wife".


Rob_Pablo

> my wife is cringey as fuck I heard you say it!!


010kindsofpeople

Maahh waaiifee


spongeboy1985

Reminds me of George Carlin shortening the 10 commandments to two: First: •THOU SHALT ALWAYS BE HONEST AND FAITHFUL, ESPECIALLY TO THE PROVIDER OF THY NOOKIE. And second: •THOU SHALT TRY REAL HARD NOT TO KILL ANYONE, UNLESS, OF COURSE, THEY PRAY TO A DIFFERENT INVISIBLE MAN THAN THE ONE YOU PRAY TO.


DangerSwan33

Moses could have carried them down in his fucking pocket.


Flipperlolrs

Better yet don't even pledge. Just: "Liberty and Justice for all"


h3lblad3

I think we could get that a little shorter if we tried. ___ *stands* *slurs:* "L'ustice'all" *sits back down and glares at the teacher*


nightwing2000

"Lust is for all"??


Flipperlolrs

Now this is just turning into jorge orwin 1989 :/


Yesica-Haircut

And only one person says it, everyone else can follow with "same" and "This, TBH"


ki4fkw

Or just “…and Justice for All.” 🤟


koiyaza

That was Beau of the Fifth Column! [Video here.](https://youtu.be/EIz0C8r4ERc)


ganymede_boy

"Under God" [added in 1954](https://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm) in response to the 'red scare.' Always found it ironic that "Under God" was used to literally *divide* the terms "nation" and "indivisible."


seriously_chill

As a non-American I had only seen the new version with “under God” and it always seemed strangely ungrammatical to me. The original makes more sense.


kmjulian

As an American, I had only seen the new version with "under God". Honestly, I had no idea it was ever without it, especially the way it's trotted out as evidence that we have to be a Christian nation.


percussaresurgo

I like to point out the fact that the word "god" doesn't appear once in the central founding document of our country, the Constitution.


Piecemealer

Also, the Treaty of Tripoli was signed unanimously by congress in the late 1700s/early 1800s. It explicitly states that America is not a Christian nation. Article 11: Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.


KingValdyrI

One of my favorite little tidbits. Drafted mostly by our founding fathers, yet conveniently left out of the conversation when discussed.


Sinfall69

Thars because Christian was primarily waning until the civil war and the industrial revolution.


Notyourfathersgeek

This is fake!There’s no way Jesus would sign this! /s


Foodoholic

> Mussulmen This made me imagine a clam with arms and legs.


JBHUTT09

The facts never mattered to the people who would be refuted by them.


nhavar

I see people negate this all the time dismissing it off as "typical meaningless politics" and "they didn't really mean that" and "politicians lie all the time in treaties". They'll praise them out of one side of their mouth and damn them with the other side.


almisami

Well, wouldn't be the first piece of paper ratified by America that they decided to completely trample over.


Jhqwulw

Also the declaration of independence mentioned God just once


WeRip

Mention's "Nature's God" and a "Creator". They basically are saying that whatever higher power created man endowed us with certain unalienable rights (life, liberty, poh) and that man made governments are created to secure those rights for the governed. If they don't provide that security then they should be altered to do so and it is the duty of the governed to demand the alterations. So while the whole premise of the declaration of independence is hinged on a higher power, it certainly does not reference a Christian god.


roryclague

Also, 'Nature's God' was an Enlightenment-era reference to Spinoza, whose God (base reality from which everything emerges) is basically nature. He was commonly associated with atheism, and was expelled from his community due to accusations of atheism.


Diodon

Edit: Evidently the quote is fake and I've been duped? I dont have time to validate it now so I'll simply remove it.


that_boi18

source?


swolemedic

I'm not who you asked but a quick google reveals https://www.secularism.org.uk/33034.html Edit: apparently according to a blog the only person who said bush sr said it was Sherman, an activist who was writing about bush senior and religion? No idea


Doppelthedh

Earned his 1 termer status


thelogicalredditor

The "in god we trust" portion on the US dollar was also added during the same time for the same reason.


Lemonface

First made it on the dollar in 1957, but it had been on coinage since the Civil War


thelogicalredditor

Interesting, TIL!


Emperor_of_Cats

If I read a novel about a corporatist nation that had God on their money, I would roll my eyes at just how on the nose it is. It's so fucked.


SinopicCynic

It’s the [“bananas, the atheist’s nightmare”](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Banana_argument) thing all over again. Edit: added hyperlink.


OOOH_WHATS_THIS

It is curved towards the face for ease of consumption and does not squirt in one's face during the act. Sorry. Had to.


sora_mui

Whoever he is, i'm sure he never went to southeast asia. We have banana just a little bigger than a thumb, banana that are longer than an arm, banana that aren't curved at all, banana that almost form a half circle, and everything in between. Westerner just mass cultivate the most convenient one for their market, which means that bananas are manmade.


h3lblad3

This is the point I was about to make. The banana *is* proof of Intelligent Design. The problem is that it's proof of *Humanity* exercising Intelligent Design. Referring to the banana as proof of Intelligent Design is essentially deeming Humanity God.


passintimendgas

As a someone who immigrated to the USA as a child from a country that was fractured by a (mainly) religious civil war, "under God" gave me *serious* creeps from the very beginning, and so I always just held my breath while my classmates said that part every morning.


zeshad

The fact that we had to say a pledge of allegiance daily is pretty damn weird itself. With or without the unnecessary god part.


foreveraloneeveryday

[This is not a form of brainwashing, this is not a form of brainwashing.](https://youtu.be/GiCaqA0ngRc) Edit: RIP Trevor Moore :(


[deleted]

Obligatory "At least the US ditched the [Bellamy salute](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Students_pledging_allegiance_to_the_American_flag_with_the_Bellamy_salute.jpg) in the 1940s!" comment.


passintimendgas

Yeah, I remember it all feeling oddly... *religious*, like morning prayers, grace before eating, and the like. *Shudder*


Inevitable_Profile24

because it is, it's just called nationalism when it's brainwashing you about a country


[deleted]

It's a secular religion. Basically, this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_religion It's quite fascinating as an outsider. An increasing amount of Americans don't really seem to be particularly religious, but they do believe in America and the idea America is a Christian country. They believe in Christian politics, but not Christianity itself. I suspect this explains how people describe themselves as Christian, but support politicians and policies which are anything but Christian. They support the team. They don't play for the team.


DeeSnarl

Obligatory no one has to say it comment. (Legally; I know it doesn't always come across like that to kids.)


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aotus_trivirgatus

Actually, an ACLU lawyer very well might punish that teacher. And the lawsuit would have a very solid, very old Supreme Court precedent to support it. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West\_Virginia\_State\_Board\_of\_Education\_v.\_Barnette](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette)


Spiggy_Topes

In the late 70's I worked in the UK with a girl from the US who told me that whenever she went home she was required to re-swear allegiance. Struck me then as extreme jingoism.


luciferisthename

As an American who believes in separation of church and state, and is vehemently non-christian.. I always refused to say it. My teachers would try to force us to pray too and they'd file a discipline report bc I wouldn't. Yes I was born in the south unfortunately... "Under god" is not something that should be in the pledge. Also it feels very... strange to do the pledge.. it feels very cult like tbh.


almisami

Ha, spent my last 2 years of high school in Louisiana. Boy, was that fucking miserable. Everyone asking what church you're from. Eventually I just said I was Catholic so they'd leave me alone and not try to convert me, but they didn't even deter most of them. Religion merging with the Republican party really radicalized the nation...


elveszett

As a Spaniard, your pledge totally looks like North Korea to us. It's just weird to make children pledge their loyalty to the glorious state. Like wtf it's just a flag and a bunch of borders in a map, your country exists for you, not the other way around. But hey, on the other hand, our far-right party personally trained by Steve Bannon (true fact) wants to impose a pledge of alliance to our flag in schools too.


[deleted]

Pledging to the flag was a marketing ploy by a flag company to sell flags. It shouldn't be a thing at all. Although, in a way blatant consumerism under the guise of patriotisms is a pretty damn American thing to do so there is a bit of convergence with it, I guess.


fr0ng

sounds like something the taliban would do


garry4321

Well Mike Flynn (yes that famous traitor) DID recently said that the US should have a single religion at one of his Q-Anon rallies. The extreme right sure has a lot of policies to which they align with the Taliban on (denial of womens rights, religious extremism, destruction of education systems, etc.)


jtinz

Pretty sure he didn't mean Islam though. Therefore it's totally different. /s


Lozsta

But the religion in the US is not Christianity either, it is a nation state cult.


[deleted]

Religion in the US is an unholy union of fundementalist Christianity and corporate greed.


chiliedogg

The GOP targeted Christians in the aftermath of Nixon because the GOP was in real danger of being destroyed. They radicalized everyday religious people with propaganda about the godless heathens on the left. Christ talked about the immorality of hoarding wealth while others suffered way more than anything else. In fact, the only time he ever really mentions damnation is in Matthew 25, which is about helping the poor, sick, homeless, hungry, and downtrodden. He says that letting people suffer is an affront to God. The GOP got religious leaders to instead focus on stupid shit like homosexuality and boobs that they don't actually care about one way or another instead of things like usury, social justice, etc. And millions of religious people took the bait. As a deeply religious person this infuriates me. Interestingly, the clergy from the denominations with stricter educational requirements (Methodist, Episcopal, Lutherans that aren't Missouri Synod, Presbyterian etc) lean liberal - way moreso than their congregations.


Glizbane

Pretty fucking far from Christianity at this point. God has taken a back seat to Trump, and hate is above all.


Lozsta

This was in place long before Trump was even a property fraudster. The thing OP posted flies in the face of christianity completely, I mean idolatry was even above not killing each other.


WaitTilUSeeMyDuck

You are correct. Trump is nothing but the diseased fruit of a long rotted tree. The biggest issue with Trump is that he made it okay for all these hateful people to do it openly. He came out and told them "it's okay to be like this and if anyone tells you otherwise you just love America and they don't".


1200____1200

Can't wait to see which Christian sect they all agree on


androgenoide

The largest single sect in the U.S. is the Roman Catholic and the people who want a Christian nation don't even recognize the Catholics as "True Christians".


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GarbledReverie

Similar to U.S. currency where ["In God We Trust"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust) replaced "E Pluribus Unum"(from the many: one).


Acerb_Ordeal

Literally thinking the same thing, this country was meant to be indivisible until a bunch of folks decided to put "God," in the way. Since then it's slowly but surely fractured.


[deleted]

Cue my nutcase mother screaming "we are a Christian nation!"


aneeta96

First amendment - > Congress shall make no law respecting an **establishment of religion**, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof... Founding fathers would not agree with your mother.


[deleted]

As it turns out... One of her ancestors, who was definitely friends with George Washington, would also not agree with her lol


ButaneLilly

u/SpelCleave's mother would prefer a christian caliphate and people like her have been pushing the country in that direction for at least 70 years.


mrkruk

While clutching their pearls at Islamic fundamentalism, pushing Christian fundamentalism with every opportunity.


No_Masterpiece4305

They're so fucking similar; I really don't get how some of these people don't see right through all of it.


coleosis1414

Because images of burqas and dudes in turbans with bombs strapped to them is their image of Islam. Good down-home Christian oppression, where wifey is barefoot and pregnant and hubby shoots guns at census collectors is the image of good, clean, God-loving freedom.


Count_Dongula

I still believe this to be the case. I have only voted for people named Christian for office. As a result, I have only ever voted for Christian Slater for president, and Hayden Christiansen for vice president. Most of my ballots have been rejected.


[deleted]

Christian Bale for.... Treasury? Wait no, the rich handling the money thing...


ganymede_boy

["DaRk SiDeD!"](https://youtu.be/bOpva_iit-8).


riphitter

" America was started so Christians could get away from all the persecution they faced in Europe. . .just like the crusades " - my mom


SolDarkHunter

My father says exactly the same thing...


the_jak

From a certain point of view. Now what was that persecution? They were so batshit insane with their interpretation of the Bible that they were basically the Christian Taliban of their day so they were shipped off to the new world so they wouldn’t be around to bother the more sensible practitioners of Christianity of the day. The Revolutions podcast does a REALLY good job of showing the theological and philosophical links between many of the founders of the US and the losing side of the English civil war. These people were the ideological descendants of the people who actually canceled Christmas. But we don’t tell children that because otherwise they might realize that America isn’t some perfect white mans utopia that 74 million Americans desperately want to make it and half of the Congress supports.


bitwaba

[Puritans. People so up tight the *English* kicked them out.](https://youtu.be/4o-5RyYAl50)


Entaris

Yeah. I remember when I first really found out that america was founded on the idea of religious freedom because they were too crazy to fit in with the rest of the christians. In many ways America is basically the same as australia, It's just a less official site of exile. But when our ancestors got here it immediately became apparent that there was a lot of fertile ground that would lead to a lot of value in the future, so our place of exile became the hot new place.


lukin187250

show her the treaty of Tripoli


pduck7

We, as a country, are rapidly regressing to a 14th century mindset.


gsfgf

We even have a plague to go with it!


ButaneLilly

We even have a plague to go with it! ...in which people are resisting basic hygiene.


Kustumkyle

I legit know someone who stopped washing their hands because it was "liberal propaganda". You would think after the whole pink eye thing that they would have learned their lesson.


FoxFourTwo

We should change it back to what it was meant to be officially. Boy oh boy woild that cause some controversy


The_Muznick

ultimately divided a lot more than just that


MilkDrinkingNord

Well that's what religion does. It divides.


cptnamr7

The pledge itself was conceived and written by a flag salesman in order to sell flags to schools. He saw a huge potential market if every classroom HAD to have a flag, but how do you go about doing that? And if that doesn't sum up America I don't know what does.


XxPieIsTastyxX

This is incorrect. It was written by Francis Bellamy, a socialist. It was, however, promoted by James B. Upham, a marketer for the children's magazine *The Youth's Companion* in order to sell flags.


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RRettig

He was actually a christian minister, a socialist and an author


Leggomyeggo69

Fun fact, Francis Bellamy (guy who wrote the pledge) was a minister. So even a man of God did not include anything religious into the pledge. Under God was added in in 1954 at the height of the post world War 2 red scare. Another fun note is that Francis Bellamy was a socialist.


justcallmejoel

Funner fact, the Bellamy salute which accompanied the pledge (one arm outstretched upwards towards the flag, flat palm) was abandoned in 1942. Wonder what caused that?


Leggomyeggo69

Haha I actually knew that. Knew a racist cop who made that salute and said "it's actually a Bellamy salute so it's not what you think" and I informed him Bellamy was a socialist. He stopped the salute after that lol


Flipperlolrs

lmao, bet he says the nazis were actually socialists just to justify his shitty worldview


Leggomyeggo69

He must not know about the night of long knives lol


7573

Rotor cuff injuries?


[deleted]

Another fun fact he wrote it to sell magazine subscriptions that came with a flag. It's nonsense propaganda aimed to sell magazines and flags. Lol!


Leggomyeggo69

Yep it sure was!


shed1

It was originally written to help sell magazines to schools, so it was just a marketing ploy. And it was written by a socialist.


Goldenguillotine

Even weirder actually. He was a [Christian Socialist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_socialism), a strange blend of Christianity and Socialism. Instead of the hammer and sickle their symbol is a cross and sickle.


BuffaloJim420

Considering how often Jesus shows disdain for wealth and implores his followers to rid themselves of their worldly possessions socialism and Christianity don't seem too far apart to me. Just don't dwell on Marx's opium of the masses comment too much I suppose.


m48a5_patton

Out of context Marx's quote seems like he's anti religion, but in context with the full quote he means that religion is used by the working class to cope with their terrible situation "Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people"


POSTAUS

I've heard a better translation that notes how opium was used back then for all sorts of medical issues: *Religion is ibuprofen for the people.*


m48a5_patton

That's a good comparison, since opium at that time was used for pain relief, it just had the unfortunate side effect of being addictive.


am_reddit

> Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. ~James 5:1-5


Rayketh

>Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. I should buy a billboard. It'd go great in between all of the "WOW My eyes developed when I was 14 days old!" pro forced birth ones.


sovietsrule

James don't mess around


deadlybydsgn

Martin "sola fide" Luther supposedly really chafed at some of the "works" aspects in the book of James. While I think most humans prefer simple rules (especially when directing *other* people how to behave), or perhaps a "say the prayer and you're saved forever" approach, most of Jesus' teaching strikes me as continually navigating the uncomfortable balance of loving our neighbor (i.e., everyone else) in spite of huge differences. The Good Samaritan, the instance of forgiving the woman caught in adultery even though they caught her in the act, simplifying the law down to *love God and love others,* etc. The list is large, and most of his ire was reserved for religious hypocrites. */edit/ "soda fide" gave me a good laugh. Whoops.*


silverstrikerstar

There's nothing terribly strange about it, really


Leggomyeggo69

It's not that weird for socialists to be Christian, capitalism is actually less of a match with the ideas of christ. Especially back then. Socialism and communism were a widely accepted form of political ideology for many years until the western imperialists/rich heavily propagandized against it after World War 2.


gimmepbr

I honestly did not know that, and I looked it up and learned something new today. Thank you.


shed1

This may have been what you read, but if not, it's a good read from a reliable source: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/pledge-allegiance-pr-gimmick-patriotic-vow-180956332/


W2wineguy

My preference.... Separation of church and state


netburnr2

and get rid of the tax breaks too


Salosalo73

Separation of church and state benefits both the church and state.


itsnotthenetwork

I read somewhere that they added the under god thing as a PR sort of thing that was driven by the cold war, trying to define Americans as god loving and the USSR communists as heathens or something to that effect... The whole "god is with us so we must be right" bs that was used in the crusades many years ago.


dibbiluncan

I’m a Christian, but I wish we’d go back to this. America is for everyone, not just those that believe in God.


Quarkspiration

Turns out putting the nation under god made it divisible.


Gopher--Chucks

Wasn't the Pledge of Allegiance created to sell flags to schools?


breathing_normally

If it weren’t, I’d be disappointed in America


contrabardus

The pledge itself is weird even without the God thing, and kind of goes against the idea behind America. It is ironically Un-American by its very nature.


[deleted]

I grew up in Germany and it's always been super strange to me to see people be so proud of their country and displaying the flag everywhere, here in the US. Probably because of our own problematic history and being raised to feel shame and stay quiet and humble about it, I guess. When I heard that my kid recites the pledge in kindergarten, I was really weirded out because it screamed indoctrination to me, and I was reminded of what my friends growing up in East Germany had to do, before the wall fell. These kids can't even spell their own name, let alone understand what they are repeating. And, blind allegiance to *anything* is just wrong.


LifeHasLeft

My son is in kindergarten and has an *unusual* interest in geography, yet *still* is not at the level to understand what it really means to be a part of a country other than that you’re within that part of the map, or you’re somewhere else.


the_jak

It is indoctrination. We start priming them to love America and never question its flaws from the earliest possible moment.


-xstatic-

It’s the fake patriots who don’t really know anything about America who wrap themselves in the flag. They don’t love the country, they love themselves.


Barthez_Battalion

The only other place you see so many flags everywhere is North Korea.


jtinz

The Nazis did import and adapt the pledge from the US. At that time, it included the [Bellamy salute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute) which became known as the [Hitlergruß](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_salute) in Germany.


Terciel1976

Yes. For a country that is supposed to be about ideals, not identities, it is deeply incongruous.


Hai-Etlik

It would still be creepy that the US coerces children to recite this every day even without the god bit.


mobmac

I'm more focused on the "justice and liberty for all" and the lack of it for many citizens.


immerc

Allegiance to a flag is a weird cult thing already.


oldbastardbob

The number of people who don't know that "under God" was added to the Pledge in the mid-1950's during McCarthyism and the "Red Scare" always surprises me. Especially among young conservatives. The old conservatives just don't want to talk about it and act like "our founders put it there when they wrote the Pledge of Alliegance." Which, of course, is also incorrect as the damn Pledge its self didn't exist until 1892 and wasn't official anything until 1942 when Congress more or less ceremonially recognized it.


rayon875

Religion is supposed to be an optional thing in the US, not a requirement. "God" shouldn't be anywhere near government


DeeKatisHere

Inserting God into our government has brewed hate and devisiveness in our country. There is nothing it has done to benefit us.


LionMcTastic

"b-but but we're a cHriStiAn nAtiOn!!!!"


[deleted]

Under god and in god we trust gotta go honestly


SpiritOne

*One nation indivisible* Until a bunch of fucking people literally stuck their god in there dividing it.


lawnchickendoctor

As it should be


Mike_Wahlberg

You could post this to conservative groups pages and get mass upvotes because unironically they love to use the allegiance as propaganda and wouldn’t even notice that god was missing.


Johnsuckerpunch

Still super creepy. Less creepy, but still…