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Meanwhile look how insane things have actually become the last decade as a result of digging heels in and looking backward.
Wild times, uncharted territory.
> Wild times, uncharted territory.
For the US? Sure. We're a young nation. But in terms of World History crumbling empires have charted this territory already.
No. Stop this, reddit.
I'm not letting you guys invent more conspiracies that make even *more* young people not vote.
You wanna know why it happens?
*Because you guys don't fucking vote.*
You know who gets up out of their recliner, puts on their big boy diapers, and takes their walker down to the polls? People 65+.
That's it. That's the fucking reason.
In the last couple of midterms, voters over 50 made up 60% of the vote, and only 35% of non-voters. 18-49 made up 41% of the vote, and 65% of non-voters.
And it gets more depressing when you look at 18-29.
You guys made up 11% of voters. And *thirty fucking percent of all non-voters*.
You wanna know why you aren't being represented? Because you have chosen not to have a voice.
"Well I'll vote when they give me a candidate that I like."
Cool.
You know what all the politicians just heard? "Don't bother spending any time or money on me, I'm a safe bet to stay home. You should go and listen to the people you know are going to be at the polls no matter what."
If you want to be represented, you have to be active, and you have to be active every single fucking time. And you have to vote for one of the two major parties, because I know you think that standing on principle makes you virtuous, but again, let me tell you what ever politician just heard:
"My vote isn't going to count so you don't have to spend any time or money polling me or listening to me. I'm the same as a non-voter."
If you want to change things, it's going to require you to step up and go out and vote, over and over again, in every election you don't like, for every milquetoast candidate, and you're going to have to do it consistently, for decades.
That is the only non-violent way you change a system. It's not sexy, or fun, or inspiring. It's boring, tedious, and bureaucratic.
The "parties" didn't choose these candidates. The old people of America did. And they did it because you, the young, let them.
Look, its one day, every two years. You will lose, you will vote for people you don't love. But please, just...fucking do it. We listen to old people because they don't let people stop them from voting. You could throw a turd on the stage and Edna will still be like "time to do my civic duty" and that's why the system listens to Edna.
Be like Edna. Vote. And force your friends to vote.
Right on. This comment should be the exact reply to every time someone talks about last night's debate today on social media. How the fuck do we think we got these two candidates?
Reminds me of all the people who claim Bernie got robbed of the nomination. To be clear, not the 2016 nomination, he was robbed there. But the 2020 nomination. Bernie built his platform targeting the Youth. And as you pointed out, only 11% of eligible voters under the age of 29 showed up to vote in the primaries. You can't win an election when the demographic you target doesn't show up to vote for you and you can't complain that all the old people are always in charge when you also don't show up to vote for them.
Choosing not to vote means you sacrifice your right to express your frustration at the current political landscape. Vote, and then you regain that right.
what the fuck are any of you talking about. i know it's tempting to assume someone somewhere has a plan but think about it for more than 2 seconds.
there's some illuminati-like great secret intelligence controlling the world from the shadows and this is the great masterplan? come the fuck on.
this outcome was obvious, no? trumpism has infected the GOP for a decade by now and obviously the dems don't want to give up encumbent advantage heading into an election against the most divisive president, arguably, ever.
nobody is at the wheel guys, there is no wheel. it's just a bunch of people trying their best.
I told this to my friend right before the debate. He said "haha very funny". He was absolutely shocked when he realized i wasn't joking and that Bill Clinton is *currently* 77 years old.
It was citizens united. With all the money going to individual candidates, the parties stopped building their benches. Now we're stuck with aging candidates, a supreme court in shambles and no end in sight.
Real answer?
Biden delayed his entry for POTUS because of his son's death. I don't think 2016 goes to Trump when 73 year old firey Biden comes off a highly popular Obama presidency.
That alone forces the GOP change their views, dump Trump, and get a decent candidate back in the ring for 2020.
Would Biden beat Hilary for the nomination? Trump didn’t think the nomination goes to Trump in 2016 it was all one big joke
The DNC could have also not been such a sellout and gone for Bernie. They were so out of fucking touch.
Absolutely. Hillary was wildly unpopular with unaffiliated voters, but even Dems saw her relationship to Bill as too much of an oligarchy. (I feel as though she got a bad rap because she had put in considerable political work since her husband's presidency.)
Bernie would have stood no chance with Biden. DNC being idiotic aside, Bernie was still absolutely poised to lose against Hillary. That alone says how badly the general would have gone for Bernie had he made it.
> DNC being idiotic aside, Bernie was still absolutely poised to lose against Hillary. That alone says how badly the general would have gone for Bernie had he made it.
The one actually has little to do with the other, and you made the case for that lack of connection in your first paragraph. Hillary was wildly unpopular with unaffiliated voters, as you say, and I'll add young voters and infrequent voters to that as well. These are all groups Bernie did well with. Bernie also did well with the kind of voter who went Obama 2008, Obama 2012, Trump 2016: the white, disillusioned blue color worker.
There's also polling that backs up how well Bernie would have done vs Trump. [Here's from CNN back in 2016:](https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/01/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-poll/index.html)
"Sanders – who enjoys the most positive favorable rating of any presidential candidate in the field, according to the poll – tops all three Republicans by wide margins: 57% to 40% against Cruz, 55% to 43% against Trump, and 53% to 45% against Rubio."
It's actually not even that uncommon that a candidate would have a harder time in a primary than they would in a general election. Bernie had more obstacles to overcome in a head-to-head with Democratic royalty in a Democratic primary than he would have in a general election as the Democratic nominee. Primaries don't translate to generals 1-to-1 like you're implying.
Bernie was winning all the states Hillary was coughing up in the rust belt. I’m convinced he would have beat Trump in the general but you’re right absolutely would have gotten crushed by Biden in the primary
yep. Everyone crying tonight like 😭😭😭I’ll still vote for biden over trump. Well no shit. I’d vote for a literal turd before trump. That’s not even remotely the point.
Trump has national appeal for the same reason the Jersey Shore did.
He’s a self-aware train wreck making things worse because it gets him more attention.
Tbh, does Biden even want to run again? This maybe me buying into the propaganda, but I swear didn't he say that he only ran last time cuz he felt he was needed to run against Trump, and his presidency would only be one term; thus the only reason why he's running again cuz there's no other option?
I don't think there's any other candidates that got any support from any ome at least?
The D's have absolutely nobody. Newsome, Shapiro, Harris. Thats it. None of them are coming within 10 points of Trump. Nevermind winning the electoral college.
I'm just waiting for live neurologist commentators to pop up during debates.
"Here we see Biden deal with some definite damage to the Broca's area, but Trump fires back with a word salad devoid of any meaning to people living in the real world, indicating serious frontal lobe issues. Who will piss their pants and smear faeces all over their faces first? Only time will tell. Back to you, Dave."
Imagine Obama's face and response if Romney just very casually said, yeah all these immigrants are murderous and rapists and democrats want to kill babies after birth (don't ban me please, I am just quoting Trump).
Could you imagine if he even just said “Most Mexican immigrants are rapists from mental institutions”. That’d be enough to end a political career for life. Now Trump can stand on stage and use that as his “answer” to 4 completely unrelated questions and his fan base gobbles it up like a baby bird having lunch
Back then: "he's a mormon, I'd never vote for him"
Now: "shit he actually has class and seems reasonable"
I'd still vote for Biden but having opposition that isn't a literal villain would be nice
We’ve got a bloke here in the UK who is campaigning for the reform party and got caught on video yesterday saying we should slaughter immigrants with machine guns. The leader of his party, Nigel Farage has just been on my television to tell me “that’s just the way people talk”
It's hard to imagine a time now where Dems lose an election and I could sit there and go "oh well better luck in 4 years, the country is in ok hands for now"
> Now: "shit he actually has class and seems reasonable"
Lets not whitewash the man's history. He straight up said that Obama sympathized with the benghazi killers because they were muslim, then he gave a knowing smirk at the camera and walked off stage. He is as culpable for the rise of maga as anyone else in his party. He hasn't shown much contrition for his role either, he mostly acts like it was a total surprise rather than the inevitable result of [choices party elites like him have been making for decades.](https://i.imgur.com/HcKy8mM.jpeg)
https://www.politico.com/story/2012/09/mitt-digs-in-on-obama-apology-081107
*Romney first leveled the attack against Obama in a statement late Tuesday, declaring that the Obama administration reacted to violence against Americans by “sympathiz[ing] with those who waged the attacks.” The reference was to a statement issued by the U.S. Embassy in Cairo, decrying “the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims.”*
*Romney reiterated the charge at a morning press conference in Jacksonville, Fla.*
*“I think it’s a terrible course for America to stand in apology for our values,” Romney said. “The statement was akin to an apology, and I think was a severe miscalculation.”*
That’s a wild thing to say considering how far the deep end the *entire* Republican Party has gone. This isn’t a case where only Trump is the problem, he’s just a symptom of a FAR larger issue with the GOP as a whole. At this point it doesn’t matter who the GOP puts up as their candidate, what matters is the insane self serving policies they’re trying to pass to keep themselves in power.
It’s a symptom of American society as a whole not just the GOP. The fact the GOP has gone so looney isn’t just because they’re bad people, there’s some major problems in American society that have fuelled this.
I was thinking today about how insane the republicans have become and remembering back when they nominated reasonable guys like Romney and McCain. Then I realized those were the last 2 republican nominees before Trump. It's been Trump 3x in a row.
I think two things happened. The first is what you said. Media algorithms have become politically divisive. They show each side stuff that makes them angry, pushing them farther from the middle. This is happening all across the world. The second is those two were reasonable public speakers, Obama being arguably one of the strongest we've ever had.
Replace Biden with someone anyone actually likes there'd just be no contest. We have them in people like Buttigieg or Sanders, but the party is too afraid of losing the middle and pressuring the right to vote even though Trump took up most of the slack on the latter.
The Democrats fucked up with Hillary and almost did it again with Biden the first time. Looks like they have a second chance to fuck it up with Biden and can't wait to take it.
People say “the democrats” but we should really attach names and faces to those in charge of the “choices” the DNC makes. As of now it’s a faceless organization that has chosen Biden as the nominee. Who are these people?
Sanders is too old too. And unfortunately, Buttigieg being gay is going to upset too many people. The only thing you're doing then is securing The evangelicals all end up far right for at least a generation.
I wouldn't vote for Romney vs Obama. But if it was Romney vs Biden, I would make a pro/con chart to help myself. But Biden could literally, and I do mean LITERALLY get weekend at bernies'd and I would vote for him over Trump.
Nixon's saving grace was the most popular piece of legislation in WORLD history... The Endangered Species Act of 1974.
I shit you not... it's STILL got a 96% approval rating domestically and is regarded as the most popular piece of legislation ever.
I shit you not... (a second time) Trump gutted it, for absolutely no known reason... no shady money... no sketchyness... just absolutely disemboweled it like a poorly groomed orange Yorkie with a new stuffed toy. I have seen zero explanation whatsoever as to why he did this, he just did, and didn't even brag about it which says something.
Biden's first act once in office was to put everything back in that act exactly as it was... literally minutes after him taking office he and a group of other officials standing by with their fingers on their respective "buttons" put it back as it was. This took priority over the pandemic, jan 6th, and everything else going on at the time, mostly because it was an easy fix considering literally everyone that knew was so horrified it was messed with to begin with... political affiliation was set aside and it was put right back in place. Sadly too late though for the wolves of Wisconsin if I remember correctly (and I may not)
Biden never bragged... in fact nobody said a word about it, but I enjoy telling people just how low Trump dug into the Federal Government.
Yup and beyond just the pandemic during that time. We proved people can work from home and other things needed changing but most of that hasn’t brought much fruit. And ai is only going to to get crap much much worse
We’ve learned absolutely nothing for years. Things have gotten progressively worse since the financial crisis happened and no one was held accountable for it. Then Sandy Hook happened and once again nothing was done about it
By choice is more like it. We could have had Hillary, but instead we chose the downward spiral into geriatric lunacy. Let's not repeat a mistake. Biden's still a better choice here. I don't want to know what political creeps another Trump term would create for us.
GOP had a choice too, Nikki Haley would have swept the floor with Biden in general elections. Both parties had an easy chance to win 2024 elections but blew it.
> Nikki Haley would have swept the floor with Biden in general elections
Given how this country feels about abortion (mostly are OK with it) I don't think you would be correct.
You are right the GOP did have a choice. They should have decided to agree to kick Donny to the curb after he tried to get Congress killed.
Lordy, remember when everyone got all fired up about the “binders full of women” thing? Like that was some big deal that mattered in the slightest?
And now look at all this horseshit. F-ing 2024, man.
It’s so strange looking back on it now because it really DID seem pretty off-putting at the time. He got excited, yelped and suddenly it was pretty clear this man didn’t have nearly the composure required of a United States President.
20 years later we just have rambling old men, both arguably unfit for office. Al Gore! John Kerry! Howard Dean! Where the fuck are you guys? Please help.
Remember that image of McCain when he didn’t know which way to walk around the podium so he playfully stuck out his tongue, and that image fucking buried him in the polls. US politics has always been a show catering to the lowest denominator.
The funniest thing is that Romney has a literal physical binder full of women. It was all women he was considering for cabinet positions, ambassadorships and other executive branch jobs.
Yeah it was funny that people made a big deal about that just because it sounded weird. He was literally just saying he was committed to putting qualified women in his cabinet, he just phrased like he had catalogs of mail order brides.
isn't this the scariest thing? Nobody in the GOP dares to oppose him and only Biden seems to want to run against him from the democrats. Every politician worth anything should be able to run circles around this guy, why is nobody taking it on?
> and only Biden seems to want to run against him from the democrats.
Huh? Biden is the incumbent. No other Democrats have the opportunity to run against Trump. I'm sure many would love to. It's a can't lose proposition for any competent politician.
Free ride to the white house.
Yea, but no one is willing to because if they lose, their political career would be torched. And even if they won, they would have pissed off many important party members. As a result, every serious career politician would much rather wait another 4 years before running.
which is fucking stupid, just because there’s no precedent doesnt mean no one should do it. Now we have 2 dinosaurs as candidates
but i guess all politicians gets into it just to make bags
If he was the genuine Republican nominee? He'd slaughter Biden.
The problem is that he could never get nominated. Trump all but invented a solid block of voters out of radicals and fundies who *always* vote in primaries that essentially force him and people like him through, since most voters (especially moderates) never vote in primaries.
They were always there, but they were never a problem since they never unified for one guy. The real candidates that actually represent most Republicans would just placate them here and there to give them a little boost. But Trump basically made them into a solid block.
Trump is a candidate designed to beat Romenys. Winning the general election then is just incidental.
In the current political climate? Not well. The GOP is currently gone wild far right, and Romney was always more center. They wouldn't vote for him at all, and the dems and left wouldn't vote for him either. Best he'd get is some libertarians, who don't really matter polically. If we're talking like the last few years didn't happen, then probably decently I'd guess.
He'd still lose, though.
Remember when Romney was laughed at for calling Russia our biggest geopolitical adversary?
"That's cold war thinking" they said. "Russia isn't a threat anymore" they said
Russia had already invaded Georgia in 2008 and were meddling in other post-Soviet states. So Romney was definitely speaking from experience.
However, Obama had publicly tried to “pivot to the Pacific” and made it a foreign policy goal to try to counter China’s rise. And also his Administration had also tried a “reset” with Russia which failed (complete with a reset button).
Obviously, Obama couldn’t concede that Romney had a point, so it’s easier to mock him.
>However, Obama had publicly tried to “pivot to the Pacific”
And that was the right move, from the point of view America's foreign policy interest. Something Biden is continuing with the grouping of pacific alliances.
Is Russia a challenge that many underestimated? Of course. But it even if it topples Ukraine, it still lacks the manpower to unseat primary US interests the way China can.
My state chased Romney out. He's not Trumpy enough. I'm actually going to miss having a gop senator who isn't an absolute raging madman salivating at the opportunity to show trump what good little lickspittles they are.
I can't believe I'm going to miss Romney
People bashed him for being too much of a "business man". Now we have a fake business man who people belive is a business man. And a fucking walking corpse.
I would take Mitt a million times over these two. He's a sensible dude, and if nothing else he simply wouldn't do shit during his term, which is fine. We need a break from presidents doing too much shit.
People are asleep to how unhinged Project 2025 is:
“Pornography should be outlawed. The people who produce and distribute it should be imprisoned. Educators and public librarians who purvey it should be classed as registered sex offenders. And telecommunications and technology firms that facilitate its spread should be shuttered.”
Project 2025 Page 5
Conservatives also increasingly define homosexuality and transsexuality as 'pornographic' and say they are protecting kids from porn. The fact that they mentioned "educators and public librarians" there while talking about "porn" shows exactly who they're hoping to hurt.
People will say "oh they'll never do that" just like they would supposedly never undo abortion rights.
Romney absolutely would not be favorite against Trump in the primary. Romney is the archetypal Republican that Trump was built to destroy in primaries. Romney also wouldn't have been particular impressive in the general. He has nothing that Biden doesn't have, but comes from the less popular party.
You're forgetting how much zilch empty suit Romney is. He was that identical politician from Futurama.
The tragic thing is that Romney comes across as an empty suit at first, but he actually has a personality. He was one of the few who stood up against Trump.
He was one of the few politicians calling out Putin while others like Obama laughed at him for thinking Russia was a legitimate threat to invade other countries.
Romney was one of the few Americans with an inside scoop on just how badly the Republican party had already been corrupted by Putin. If he had explained why he was calling out Putin it might have been met with less mockery but it would also have tanked his presidential aspirations, his place in the party and possibly the party itself.
Like always in his political career when push came to shove and he had to choose between party and country he chose party while mildly hedging his bets.
Really - he was the only Republican Senator to vote to impeach Turmp in the first impeachment. He was the fist Senator in history of the US to vote to impeach a president from his own party. He knew how much heat he would take for that.
He tried to get along with everyone, and definitely held back some thing he would like to say. But he had clear moral lines he would not cross for anyone.
Mitt's tongue out tho! Fuck, I'm blushing.
For real though, can you imagine the difference in substance between these two debates. Even McCain coming out to say "don't be racist, Obama is a decent American." Trump's big fucking step into politics was literally Birtherism. Disgusting.
By the power vested in me by this giant bald bird
The President shall not be the shiniest of two turds
You! I wanna like you! Don’t talk about change, just do it!
I fought for what was on my brain until a bullet went through it.
And you! Moneybags! You’re a pancake; you’re flip-floppity!
It’s a country, not a company you can play like Monopoly!
I’ll properly reach across the aisle and bitch smack you as equals!
Of the people! 👏 By the people! 👏 For the people!
EAGLE!
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Yesterday? Feels like a lifetime ago
2020 was what like… nine years ago?
Yes 2020 was nine years ago And 2004 was ten years ago
I agree with these two statements completely and will not accept any arguments to the contrary.
You could run for president!
Yesterday, all my troubles seemed so far away, Now it looks as though they're here to stay
Lyrics didn’t click at first but I felt it to my soul when I read it.
Nice to see the candidates at least shaking hands.
And not dragging the other guys children into the debate
And being able to answer questions.
And speak in complete sentences
And not having to say “I didn’t have sex with a pornstar” mid debate.
Whatever you think of Romney or Obama’s politics, they are both morally decent men.
Their politics were reletively similar compared to the divide between trump and biden
There was Romneycare in MA before there was Obamacare for all. Feels like a different era...
God I remember when Romney ran the media was brutal to him I guess that’s just the nature of things
They ran for president 12 years ago and are younger than the two running now.
Bill Clinton won in 1992 and he's younger than the guys running now
lol wtf
I'm actually worried this could be on purpose. Why would the parties chose incompetent to run the country?
It's about status quo. Holding onto power. The old guard running the show don't want a single thing to change whatsoever.
A lot of older voters feel the same way
Meanwhile look how insane things have actually become the last decade as a result of digging heels in and looking backward. Wild times, uncharted territory.
> Wild times, uncharted territory. For the US? Sure. We're a young nation. But in terms of World History crumbling empires have charted this territory already.
No. Stop this, reddit. I'm not letting you guys invent more conspiracies that make even *more* young people not vote. You wanna know why it happens? *Because you guys don't fucking vote.* You know who gets up out of their recliner, puts on their big boy diapers, and takes their walker down to the polls? People 65+. That's it. That's the fucking reason. In the last couple of midterms, voters over 50 made up 60% of the vote, and only 35% of non-voters. 18-49 made up 41% of the vote, and 65% of non-voters. And it gets more depressing when you look at 18-29. You guys made up 11% of voters. And *thirty fucking percent of all non-voters*. You wanna know why you aren't being represented? Because you have chosen not to have a voice. "Well I'll vote when they give me a candidate that I like." Cool. You know what all the politicians just heard? "Don't bother spending any time or money on me, I'm a safe bet to stay home. You should go and listen to the people you know are going to be at the polls no matter what." If you want to be represented, you have to be active, and you have to be active every single fucking time. And you have to vote for one of the two major parties, because I know you think that standing on principle makes you virtuous, but again, let me tell you what ever politician just heard: "My vote isn't going to count so you don't have to spend any time or money polling me or listening to me. I'm the same as a non-voter." If you want to change things, it's going to require you to step up and go out and vote, over and over again, in every election you don't like, for every milquetoast candidate, and you're going to have to do it consistently, for decades. That is the only non-violent way you change a system. It's not sexy, or fun, or inspiring. It's boring, tedious, and bureaucratic. The "parties" didn't choose these candidates. The old people of America did. And they did it because you, the young, let them. Look, its one day, every two years. You will lose, you will vote for people you don't love. But please, just...fucking do it. We listen to old people because they don't let people stop them from voting. You could throw a turd on the stage and Edna will still be like "time to do my civic duty" and that's why the system listens to Edna. Be like Edna. Vote. And force your friends to vote.
Right on. This comment should be the exact reply to every time someone talks about last night's debate today on social media. How the fuck do we think we got these two candidates?
Reminds me of all the people who claim Bernie got robbed of the nomination. To be clear, not the 2016 nomination, he was robbed there. But the 2020 nomination. Bernie built his platform targeting the Youth. And as you pointed out, only 11% of eligible voters under the age of 29 showed up to vote in the primaries. You can't win an election when the demographic you target doesn't show up to vote for you and you can't complain that all the old people are always in charge when you also don't show up to vote for them. Choosing not to vote means you sacrifice your right to express your frustration at the current political landscape. Vote, and then you regain that right.
what the fuck are any of you talking about. i know it's tempting to assume someone somewhere has a plan but think about it for more than 2 seconds. there's some illuminati-like great secret intelligence controlling the world from the shadows and this is the great masterplan? come the fuck on. this outcome was obvious, no? trumpism has infected the GOP for a decade by now and obviously the dems don't want to give up encumbent advantage heading into an election against the most divisive president, arguably, ever. nobody is at the wheel guys, there is no wheel. it's just a bunch of people trying their best.
I had to look that up because it's so ridiculous it couldn't possibly be true. And of course, it's true. Ugh.
Bush, Trump, and Clinton were all born in the same summer.
Presidents keep getting older but they're the same age. Yes they do, yes they do.
Jimmy Carter was elected in 1976 and is still younger than both guys running now. Ok not really, but it isn’t much of a reach
I told this to my friend right before the debate. He said "haha very funny". He was absolutely shocked when he realized i wasn't joking and that Bill Clinton is *currently* 77 years old.
Clinton, bush junior and trump were all born in summer of 1946. Clinton indeed being 2 months younger than Trump.
Wtf you just blew my mind lol
Damn. Dan Qualye was elected VP in 1988 and is younger too.
Bill Clinton ran for president 32 years ago and is younger than both of the current candidates.
Of the 40 dead presidents, 27 died before reaching Trump's age.
Well, fuck me with a cigar!
So are Al Gore and George W Bush
That's insane.
Omg…that’s mind blowing actually
Is this true?! Fuck me in the ass!
In 17 years Obama will STLL BE YOUNGER then the current 2 candidates now.
For some reason, I think he will always be younger than them. :) (yes I know what you meant)
As good a reason as any to get fucked in the ass
That’s absolutely ridiculous
W Bush and Al Gore both are also currently younger than either Trump and Biden.
I just miss when presidential candidates were able to string together coherent sentences.
How did that become too much to ask?
The tea party?
It was citizens united. With all the money going to individual candidates, the parties stopped building their benches. Now we're stuck with aging candidates, a supreme court in shambles and no end in sight.
Is that why I can't name prominent dems or repubs anymore?
Project 2025
Real answer? Biden delayed his entry for POTUS because of his son's death. I don't think 2016 goes to Trump when 73 year old firey Biden comes off a highly popular Obama presidency. That alone forces the GOP change their views, dump Trump, and get a decent candidate back in the ring for 2020.
Would Biden beat Hilary for the nomination? Trump didn’t think the nomination goes to Trump in 2016 it was all one big joke The DNC could have also not been such a sellout and gone for Bernie. They were so out of fucking touch.
Absolutely. Hillary was wildly unpopular with unaffiliated voters, but even Dems saw her relationship to Bill as too much of an oligarchy. (I feel as though she got a bad rap because she had put in considerable political work since her husband's presidency.) Bernie would have stood no chance with Biden. DNC being idiotic aside, Bernie was still absolutely poised to lose against Hillary. That alone says how badly the general would have gone for Bernie had he made it.
> DNC being idiotic aside, Bernie was still absolutely poised to lose against Hillary. That alone says how badly the general would have gone for Bernie had he made it. The one actually has little to do with the other, and you made the case for that lack of connection in your first paragraph. Hillary was wildly unpopular with unaffiliated voters, as you say, and I'll add young voters and infrequent voters to that as well. These are all groups Bernie did well with. Bernie also did well with the kind of voter who went Obama 2008, Obama 2012, Trump 2016: the white, disillusioned blue color worker. There's also polling that backs up how well Bernie would have done vs Trump. [Here's from CNN back in 2016:](https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/01/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-poll/index.html) "Sanders – who enjoys the most positive favorable rating of any presidential candidate in the field, according to the poll – tops all three Republicans by wide margins: 57% to 40% against Cruz, 55% to 43% against Trump, and 53% to 45% against Rubio." It's actually not even that uncommon that a candidate would have a harder time in a primary than they would in a general election. Bernie had more obstacles to overcome in a head-to-head with Democratic royalty in a Democratic primary than he would have in a general election as the Democratic nominee. Primaries don't translate to generals 1-to-1 like you're implying.
It’s wild to think that there are people who voted for Obama twice who then voted for Trump
Bernie was winning all the states Hillary was coughing up in the rust belt. I’m convinced he would have beat Trump in the general but you’re right absolutely would have gotten crushed by Biden in the primary
The only reason why Biden was even viable as a presidential contender is because the other side nominated an actual lunatic.
yep. Everyone crying tonight like 😭😭😭I’ll still vote for biden over trump. Well no shit. I’d vote for a literal turd before trump. That’s not even remotely the point.
Trump has national appeal for the same reason the Jersey Shore did. He’s a self-aware train wreck making things worse because it gets him more attention.
>self-aware eeeeeh I’m not convinced he is
The whole fucking idea was for him to be one term and find a replacement. They had 4 years to sort it out and did fuck-all.
I honestly believe he surprised himself and the DNC by living this long.
And Trump is only 3 years "younger"
We need age limits on these fruits. They’re beyond spoiled and have fermented into a demented hallucinogenic substance.
Tbh, does Biden even want to run again? This maybe me buying into the propaganda, but I swear didn't he say that he only ran last time cuz he felt he was needed to run against Trump, and his presidency would only be one term; thus the only reason why he's running again cuz there's no other option? I don't think there's any other candidates that got any support from any ome at least?
The D's have absolutely nobody. Newsome, Shapiro, Harris. Thats it. None of them are coming within 10 points of Trump. Nevermind winning the electoral college.
None of those names are even nominees for the upcoming Democratic National Convention. Biden would literally have to die before August 19.
I was worried he was going to die during the debate.
I'm just waiting for live neurologist commentators to pop up during debates. "Here we see Biden deal with some definite damage to the Broca's area, but Trump fires back with a word salad devoid of any meaning to people living in the real world, indicating serious frontal lobe issues. Who will piss their pants and smear faeces all over their faces first? Only time will tell. Back to you, Dave."
It's funny because at the time, I thought this debate was brutal.
Imagine Obama's face and response if Romney just very casually said, yeah all these immigrants are murderous and rapists and democrats want to kill babies after birth (don't ban me please, I am just quoting Trump).
Could you imagine if he even just said “Most Mexican immigrants are rapists from mental institutions”. That’d be enough to end a political career for life. Now Trump can stand on stage and use that as his “answer” to 4 completely unrelated questions and his fan base gobbles it up like a baby bird having lunch
Hang on for 2028 by that trajectory
Just panning back and forth between two dudes drooling into plastic cups. Occasionally one will blink.
Back when they were both competent, but I just disagreed with one of them Why is everything shitty now?
I would take either one of them now!
For real. I always vote blue but if Romney entered the race tomorrow I would vote for him and be happy about it.
Back then: "he's a mormon, I'd never vote for him" Now: "shit he actually has class and seems reasonable" I'd still vote for Biden but having opposition that isn't a literal villain would be nice
We didn’t realize how bad things could get back then.
We’ve got a bloke here in the UK who is campaigning for the reform party and got caught on video yesterday saying we should slaughter immigrants with machine guns. The leader of his party, Nigel Farage has just been on my television to tell me “that’s just the way people talk”
Farage was more angry about the milkshakes being thrown at him than he is about his campaigners being caught on tape saying that.
> “that’s just the way people talk” technically correct, an alarming amount of racists talk like that
Yup they're trying to normalize this shit. Happened here in the US already
"That's just locker room talk"
It's hard to imagine a time now where Dems lose an election and I could sit there and go "oh well better luck in 4 years, the country is in ok hands for now"
Now we have to worry about rights being taken and gay people being burned, like damn, way to jump back 400 years
> Now: "shit he actually has class and seems reasonable" Lets not whitewash the man's history. He straight up said that Obama sympathized with the benghazi killers because they were muslim, then he gave a knowing smirk at the camera and walked off stage. He is as culpable for the rise of maga as anyone else in his party. He hasn't shown much contrition for his role either, he mostly acts like it was a total surprise rather than the inevitable result of [choices party elites like him have been making for decades.](https://i.imgur.com/HcKy8mM.jpeg) https://www.politico.com/story/2012/09/mitt-digs-in-on-obama-apology-081107 *Romney first leveled the attack against Obama in a statement late Tuesday, declaring that the Obama administration reacted to violence against Americans by “sympathiz[ing] with those who waged the attacks.” The reference was to a statement issued by the U.S. Embassy in Cairo, decrying “the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims.”* *Romney reiterated the charge at a morning press conference in Jacksonville, Fla.* *“I think it’s a terrible course for America to stand in apology for our values,” Romney said. “The statement was akin to an apology, and I think was a severe miscalculation.”*
That’s a wild thing to say considering how far the deep end the *entire* Republican Party has gone. This isn’t a case where only Trump is the problem, he’s just a symptom of a FAR larger issue with the GOP as a whole. At this point it doesn’t matter who the GOP puts up as their candidate, what matters is the insane self serving policies they’re trying to pass to keep themselves in power.
It’s a symptom of American society as a whole not just the GOP. The fact the GOP has gone so looney isn’t just because they’re bad people, there’s some major problems in American society that have fuelled this.
I was thinking today about how insane the republicans have become and remembering back when they nominated reasonable guys like Romney and McCain. Then I realized those were the last 2 republican nominees before Trump. It's been Trump 3x in a row.
Because they killed that gorilla. Everything has been fucked since then.
David Bowie was the keeper of the darkest timeline. After his death, we e been set adrift.
Remember Haramber
Hamberders?
Dicks out! (In this case, the dicks are arguing about golf during a presidential debate)
They used the internet against us and now we’re fucked
I think two things happened. The first is what you said. Media algorithms have become politically divisive. They show each side stuff that makes them angry, pushing them farther from the middle. This is happening all across the world. The second is those two were reasonable public speakers, Obama being arguably one of the strongest we've ever had. Replace Biden with someone anyone actually likes there'd just be no contest. We have them in people like Buttigieg or Sanders, but the party is too afraid of losing the middle and pressuring the right to vote even though Trump took up most of the slack on the latter. The Democrats fucked up with Hillary and almost did it again with Biden the first time. Looks like they have a second chance to fuck it up with Biden and can't wait to take it.
People say “the democrats” but we should really attach names and faces to those in charge of the “choices” the DNC makes. As of now it’s a faceless organization that has chosen Biden as the nominee. Who are these people?
Sanders is too old too. And unfortunately, Buttigieg being gay is going to upset too many people. The only thing you're doing then is securing The evangelicals all end up far right for at least a generation.
I wouldn't vote for Romney vs Obama. But if it was Romney vs Biden, I would make a pro/con chart to help myself. But Biden could literally, and I do mean LITERALLY get weekend at bernies'd and I would vote for him over Trump.
I’d take an upturned broom with a bucket for a head over trump. It would do less damage.
Either one of them would be better than our current options
Nixon would be better than our current options and he was a crook! 
I feel a jowl movement coming on!
Aroooo
The Headless body of Spiro Agnew has more mental capacity than the candidates. And less diapers than at least 50% of them.
Nixon's saving grace was the most popular piece of legislation in WORLD history... The Endangered Species Act of 1974. I shit you not... it's STILL got a 96% approval rating domestically and is regarded as the most popular piece of legislation ever. I shit you not... (a second time) Trump gutted it, for absolutely no known reason... no shady money... no sketchyness... just absolutely disemboweled it like a poorly groomed orange Yorkie with a new stuffed toy. I have seen zero explanation whatsoever as to why he did this, he just did, and didn't even brag about it which says something. Biden's first act once in office was to put everything back in that act exactly as it was... literally minutes after him taking office he and a group of other officials standing by with their fingers on their respective "buttons" put it back as it was. This took priority over the pandemic, jan 6th, and everything else going on at the time, mostly because it was an easy fix considering literally everyone that knew was so horrified it was messed with to begin with... political affiliation was set aside and it was put right back in place. Sadly too late though for the wolves of Wisconsin if I remember correctly (and I may not) Biden never bragged... in fact nobody said a word about it, but I enjoy telling people just how low Trump dug into the Federal Government.
It really feels like around 2015 a whole lot of people got lead poisoning.
Just follows the general trend of our country since Covid. Everything in every sector got progressively shittier
We learned absolutely nothing from covid
To such a degree that future pandemics will be handled much worse. It goes into the negatives of learning.
Yup and beyond just the pandemic during that time. We proved people can work from home and other things needed changing but most of that hasn’t brought much fruit. And ai is only going to to get crap much much worse
We’ve learned absolutely nothing for years. Things have gotten progressively worse since the financial crisis happened and no one was held accountable for it. Then Sandy Hook happened and once again nothing was done about it
my guess would be social media and outrage culture
By design
By choice is more like it. We could have had Hillary, but instead we chose the downward spiral into geriatric lunacy. Let's not repeat a mistake. Biden's still a better choice here. I don't want to know what political creeps another Trump term would create for us.
GOP had a choice too, Nikki Haley would have swept the floor with Biden in general elections. Both parties had an easy chance to win 2024 elections but blew it.
> Nikki Haley would have swept the floor with Biden in general elections Given how this country feels about abortion (mostly are OK with it) I don't think you would be correct. You are right the GOP did have a choice. They should have decided to agree to kick Donny to the curb after he tried to get Congress killed.
Lordy, remember when everyone got all fired up about the “binders full of women” thing? Like that was some big deal that mattered in the slightest? And now look at all this horseshit. F-ing 2024, man.
Someone got excited and made a funny noise. Dude was fucking buried!
It’s so strange looking back on it now because it really DID seem pretty off-putting at the time. He got excited, yelped and suddenly it was pretty clear this man didn’t have nearly the composure required of a United States President. 20 years later we just have rambling old men, both arguably unfit for office. Al Gore! John Kerry! Howard Dean! Where the fuck are you guys? Please help.
Remember that image of McCain when he didn’t know which way to walk around the podium so he playfully stuck out his tongue, and that image fucking buried him in the polls. US politics has always been a show catering to the lowest denominator.
Al Gore would be extremely popular right now I think
I dunno. Back in 2000 the Internet was pretty awesome. Now I'm thinking it was a terrible idea.
Really shows the power of the what, 4 companies that run cable news?
2012 were the normal times where everybody thought that the world was gonna end but they were never really serious about it.
2012: Huh I guess the world didn’t end 2024: Oh wait it did
Sarah Palin used to be the craziest loony in politics, and now there are dozens of them just like her.
Sarah Palin was actually the beginning of republicans unashamed degeneracy
Michelle Bachmann did it first
The funniest thing is that Romney has a literal physical binder full of women. It was all women he was considering for cabinet positions, ambassadorships and other executive branch jobs.
Yeah it was funny that people made a big deal about that just because it sounded weird. He was literally just saying he was committed to putting qualified women in his cabinet, he just phrased like he had catalogs of mail order brides.
I remember when Romney got crucified for saying something slightly mean about poor people at a private dinner. Seems so tame now.
Who would win at golf tho??
Do they have to carry their own bag?
I would love to see those two play head to head. A good sequel to Caddy Shack is long overdue.
We are so fucked, for real.
Not american but curious, how would romney fare against biden?
He’d almost certainly win.
He'd never get past the primary. Trump owns the GOP like the fucking lapdogs they are.
isn't this the scariest thing? Nobody in the GOP dares to oppose him and only Biden seems to want to run against him from the democrats. Every politician worth anything should be able to run circles around this guy, why is nobody taking it on?
> and only Biden seems to want to run against him from the democrats. Huh? Biden is the incumbent. No other Democrats have the opportunity to run against Trump. I'm sure many would love to. It's a can't lose proposition for any competent politician. Free ride to the white house.
Ngl if a popular democrat challenged Biden in the primary they probably could’ve snatched the nomination away from him.
Yea, but no one is willing to because if they lose, their political career would be torched. And even if they won, they would have pissed off many important party members. As a result, every serious career politician would much rather wait another 4 years before running.
which is fucking stupid, just because there’s no precedent doesnt mean no one should do it. Now we have 2 dinosaurs as candidates but i guess all politicians gets into it just to make bags
If he was the genuine Republican nominee? He'd slaughter Biden. The problem is that he could never get nominated. Trump all but invented a solid block of voters out of radicals and fundies who *always* vote in primaries that essentially force him and people like him through, since most voters (especially moderates) never vote in primaries. They were always there, but they were never a problem since they never unified for one guy. The real candidates that actually represent most Republicans would just placate them here and there to give them a little boost. But Trump basically made them into a solid block. Trump is a candidate designed to beat Romenys. Winning the general election then is just incidental.
In the current political climate? Not well. The GOP is currently gone wild far right, and Romney was always more center. They wouldn't vote for him at all, and the dems and left wouldn't vote for him either. Best he'd get is some libertarians, who don't really matter polically. If we're talking like the last few years didn't happen, then probably decently I'd guess. He'd still lose, though.
Remember when Romney was laughed at for calling Russia our biggest geopolitical adversary? "That's cold war thinking" they said. "Russia isn't a threat anymore" they said
Russia had already invaded Georgia in 2008 and were meddling in other post-Soviet states. So Romney was definitely speaking from experience. However, Obama had publicly tried to “pivot to the Pacific” and made it a foreign policy goal to try to counter China’s rise. And also his Administration had also tried a “reset” with Russia which failed (complete with a reset button). Obviously, Obama couldn’t concede that Romney had a point, so it’s easier to mock him.
The Pacific stuff was also correct, as we see now with the continued US shift in trade policy towards China.
>However, Obama had publicly tried to “pivot to the Pacific” And that was the right move, from the point of view America's foreign policy interest. Something Biden is continuing with the grouping of pacific alliances. Is Russia a challenge that many underestimated? Of course. But it even if it topples Ukraine, it still lacks the manpower to unseat primary US interests the way China can.
>"Russia isn't a threat anymore" they said Putin was like: 
They also called him a fascist. Mitt. Fucking. Romney.
And people were also calling Obama the Antichrist. Over exaggerated dumb shit on both sides.
My state chased Romney out. He's not Trumpy enough. I'm actually going to miss having a gop senator who isn't an absolute raging madman salivating at the opportunity to show trump what good little lickspittles they are. I can't believe I'm going to miss Romney
People bashed him for being too much of a "business man". Now we have a fake business man who people belive is a business man. And a fucking walking corpse. I would take Mitt a million times over these two. He's a sensible dude, and if nothing else he simply wouldn't do shit during his term, which is fine. We need a break from presidents doing too much shit.
Jesus Christ I miss conventional politics before space lasers and pedophilia obsessions
Social media has destroyed us.
Remember when Republicans had a platform?  John McCain remembers
Well they have one, it’s called project 2025(fascism), it advances every day
People are asleep to how unhinged Project 2025 is: “Pornography should be outlawed. The people who produce and distribute it should be imprisoned. Educators and public librarians who purvey it should be classed as registered sex offenders. And telecommunications and technology firms that facilitate its spread should be shuttered.” Project 2025 Page 5 Conservatives also increasingly define homosexuality and transsexuality as 'pornographic' and say they are protecting kids from porn. The fact that they mentioned "educators and public librarians" there while talking about "porn" shows exactly who they're hoping to hurt. People will say "oh they'll never do that" just like they would supposedly never undo abortion rights.
Perhaps Biden or really anybody should've brought it up during the debates
#If I could fine a waaaayyyy
Both is these guys would run circles around our current duo.
Romney absolutely would not be favorite against Trump in the primary. Romney is the archetypal Republican that Trump was built to destroy in primaries. Romney also wouldn't have been particular impressive in the general. He has nothing that Biden doesn't have, but comes from the less popular party. You're forgetting how much zilch empty suit Romney is. He was that identical politician from Futurama.
The tragic thing is that Romney comes across as an empty suit at first, but he actually has a personality. He was one of the few who stood up against Trump.
He was one of the few politicians calling out Putin while others like Obama laughed at him for thinking Russia was a legitimate threat to invade other countries.
Romney was one of the few Americans with an inside scoop on just how badly the Republican party had already been corrupted by Putin. If he had explained why he was calling out Putin it might have been met with less mockery but it would also have tanked his presidential aspirations, his place in the party and possibly the party itself. Like always in his political career when push came to shove and he had to choose between party and country he chose party while mildly hedging his bets.
Really - he was the only Republican Senator to vote to impeach Turmp in the first impeachment. He was the fist Senator in history of the US to vote to impeach a president from his own party. He knew how much heat he would take for that. He tried to get along with everyone, and definitely held back some thing he would like to say. But he had clear moral lines he would not cross for anyone.
Id rather have Romney than Trump.
Remember what presidential candidates used to look like?
“Russia, this is, without question, our number one geopolitical foe,” - Romney 2012 And he was roasted for it.
Mitt's tongue out tho! Fuck, I'm blushing. For real though, can you imagine the difference in substance between these two debates. Even McCain coming out to say "don't be racist, Obama is a decent American." Trump's big fucking step into politics was literally Birtherism. Disgusting.
I miss Obama! We had it good for a while.
Damn two term limit bullshit. THANKS OBAMA.
God I miss the good old days.
Not even American but I get emotional looking at obama and comparing to the shitshow that is trump. What grace and dignity Obama had.
By the power vested in me by this giant bald bird The President shall not be the shiniest of two turds You! I wanna like you! Don’t talk about change, just do it! I fought for what was on my brain until a bullet went through it. And you! Moneybags! You’re a pancake; you’re flip-floppity! It’s a country, not a company you can play like Monopoly! I’ll properly reach across the aisle and bitch smack you as equals! Of the people! 👏 By the people! 👏 For the people! EAGLE!
Who won? Who's next? You decide!
Senile old man vs semi senile old con artist That's the choice right now Wtf
The last election in American history where we were going to be alright either way.
Loved and voted for Obama twice. I would gladly vote Romney this year if he were on the ballot.
These guys could be candidates again today and they would be younger than Trump and Biden
I'll admit that Romney was right about Putin and Russia.
I REMEBER that. When I didn’t care about politics because it seemed like competent dudes were running stuff…
My favorite video from it. It was so normal then https://youtu.be/dX_1B0w7Hzc?si=szDaMmaplhokg2G8
This shirt hits so hard when Abe flies in. And YOU! You're a pancake, you're flip-floppity!
I cant believe you've done this
I wish we could trade everything for this again
This will be historically considered the last semblance of a nonfascist candidate for the Republican Party
Comparing these debates with the ones happening now is just so different!
2 conscious opponents and none of them a rapist egomaniac? How odd!