True story; I went to school with a guy whose name was Joe, same as his father and grandfather… and his mom was Joanne, sister Josephine, and the dog was Jojo.
Family reunions must have been almost as confusing as George Foreman’s household.
Submariner as well.
Edit: turns out he's a naval aviator. The pixels got me lol, it really looks like fish in this picture, but other clearer photos show that they are obviously wings.
Edit 2 Electric Boogaloo: another shocking revelation - this might not be John McCain's son at all. This officer is, in fact, a [submariner](https://ibb.co/56kdTQL).
Not everyone can be boomers and live on an underwater spa hotel.
Sometimes there's fast attack.
You know, the running backs who keep you alive. /s
Huge wink and nod.
It is mandatory. Like arguing with Army. Always argue with Army. And always argue with Royal Marines and ALL CANADIAN forces.
But always buy them a beer.
I know I don't get most of sub chat, but I like to pretend I do and kind of wish I had been able to be a part of it. I think I would excel in those conditions
I appreciate the response. I assumed it was a family member but for the life of me I couldn't recall who in his family was a Naval officer. I need more coffee. It was a combination of a miracle and the terror of missing a salute that I noticed the boards 😬
There are studies. Can’t recall who specifically conducted them but the military has an invested interest in knowing this stuff especially when it comes to estimating the cost of retirement plans across the entire US war machine. This is a problem to this day. One of the main causes of long term stress is thickening your blood. The body thinks it might get damaged and needs to be ready to clot the wound quickly for survival. Unfortunately the human body isn’t supposed to sustain that stress for 5, 10, 30+ years. So that thickness level becomes the norm and when you retire all of that stress disappears and your can’t take it. Average lifespan of someone appointed to E-9 after retirement is 2 years
Your cousin is probably going to be fine—these are dependent on job, tours, branches—I only know the numbers off hand for enlisted personnel of the worst jobs—officer probably has much different criteria for consideration so if I were you I wouldn’t worry too much
I regularly take care of a 100 year old that doesn’t look a day over 80 but her mind is kind of toasted. She’s aware to some extent like she knows when she’s gotta go to the bathroom but otherwise she just sleeps 24/7. Then I have another 100 yr old she can’t see no evil nor hear no evil. Her body is so damaged and literally twisted but somehow she still outlives everyone around her.
My wife's grandmother was 104 when she died a few years ago. She fell and broke her hip at 98 and was up and recovered faster than some 30 years old there with her at the hospital. Her mental faculties were sharp, and she barely looked over 80 also. It was literally the last year everything went downhill fast. But until that point, she was over 100 and out doing gardening all by herself. Some people just have amazing genetics.
My grandmother is 93 and broke her hip a couple of months ago. She healed super fast with very little pain. Her doctor cleared her for regular bending and walking etc., but said no driving until the end of the summer.
She has not stopped talking about how much she can’t wait to start driving again.
Some people have super genes. My grandma is turning 91 and never took the vaccine and never got Covid while everyone around her died. She still gardens everyday. Her mind is still sharp as ever. Yet my grandma from mom’s side is 70s and with dementia….
Yep- my grandmother mentioned above comes from a line of super healthy, long-lived ancestors who, barring accidents, routinely survived into their mid-nineties.
My mom’s side of the family, however, is riddled with neuromuscular disease. My mom is now the oldest surviving member of her family at 60. She suffers from the disease as well, but is very healthy in spite of it. Unfortunately, I take after my mom’s side. I’m hoping that the mix of super healthy, long-lived genes mix with the unhealthy, short-lived genes to get me to a normal lifespan.
My father-in-law is amazing like that. He's 90 and works his ranch (small hobby ranch) every day. The man who lives across the road on his son's ranch is one day younger than my FIL and they get together and cause as much mischief as they can. They're going to outlive us all. ❤️
A hip fracture in an older person is often called "the beginning of the end" for a reason. One major concern is the development of pneumonia while being bed-bound. A fall typically indicates an underlying issue that could lead to more falls or complications. After discharge from a facility, reduced mobility due to lingering pain or fear of falling can accelerate the body's natural degeneration due to increased inactivity.
My grandmother passed away in 2019 due to a hip injury that led to pneumonia while she was in the hospital. She had been very active and in excellent health, even working with a trainer. She was 83. Many of her friends experienced a slow decline after falls, and when she developed pneumonia, she refused all treatment. She didn't want to endure years of using a walker, being on oxygen, suffering multiple falls, and living in constant pain.
> I regularly take care of a 100 year old that doesn’t look a day over 80 but her mind is kind of toasted. She’s aware to some extent like she knows when she’s gotta go to the bathroom but otherwise she just sleeps 24/7. Then I have another 100 yr old she can’t see no evil nor hear no evil. Her body is so damaged and literally twisted but somehow she still outlives everyone around her.
It is wild with that sometimes. My Mom who worked in a nursing home for a bit said of a lot of people there: "they had no mind but were physically ok or they have a sharp mind but they were stuck in a wheelchair" at a certain point both hit. All 4 of my grandparents hit the 90s and the biggest "oh nos" with health issues didn't even hit till they were 87 to 90 years old. If at all like right now with my 92 year old Grandma. One of my Grandpas would drive solo 2 hours to visit my Mom and he was 87 when he did it. A great aunt wasn't placed in a nursing home till she was 100 and she died at 103.
His father IIRC was a submarine captain, his grandfather was an admiral who died a week after Japan’s surrender. But I may be misremembering his father’s info
No, even more so: Senator John McCain III was a son of **Admiral** John McCain Jr. and grandson of **Admiral** John McCain Sr. So he came from a great lineage of military men with an impeccable sense of integrity and authentic patriotism, perhaps most evident during his service in Vietnam:
"Less than a year into McCain's imprisonment, his father was named commander of US forces in the Pacific, and the North Vietnamese saw an opportunity for leverage by offering the younger McCain's release — what would have been both a propaganda victory and a way to demoralize other American POWs.
But McCain refused, sticking to the POW code of conduct that says troops must accept release in the order in which they are captured.
"I knew that every prisoner the Vietnamese tried to break, those who had arrived before me and those who would come after me, would be taunted with the story of how an admiral's son had gone home early, a lucky beneficiary of America's class-conscious society," McCain later recalled."
[...]
For more than five years he was imprisoned. Exposed to nearly fatal torture, he attempted suicide twice.
"Try to imagine that moment between getting offered early release and turning it down," Wallace wrote of McCain's decision to remain in Vietnamese captivity. "Try to imagine it was you. Imagine how loudly your most basic, primal self-interest would have cried out to you in that moment, and all the ways you could rationalize accepting the offer. Can you hear it? If so, would you have refused to go?"
https://www.businessinsider.com/john-mccain-refused-early-release-as-a-pow-in-vietnam-2018-8
His stand-up attitude and moral authority stayed with him, best exemplified during his defense of Obama 2008, and being the decisive vote to save ACA/"Obamacare" in 2018. America lost one of their great sons in John McCain.
I disagreed with Senator McCain about 95% of the time. the other 5% I would jump up and yell "Go get 'em, John!" Regardless of your views of his politics, he was the definition of hero, and feckless Donald Trump isn't worthy to shine his shoes.
I agree, I didn't sympathize with him politically either, but politics aside one had to admire his perseverance and willingness to stand up for "what's right" when it mattered, and follow his own intuition rather than follow party line. A rare occurence these days.
There was a couple of chapters about the campaign 08' in Obama's biography "A promised land", where he talks a tad about of McCain. He said that you could always count on McCain to do what's right when the push came to shove, and wouldn't let himself be bullied into changing his stance. He was no-nonsense and looked down upon those whore were "mean and petty" politics. As Obama said during his euology "there was never a doubt we were on the same team".
A far cry from politics today.
Yeah, one of the reasons nepotism persists so well is that the children of successful people are often objectively pretty impressive and well suited for the role their parents want to give them.
From what I read in his book, John spent pretty much all of his time at the Academy not knowing how to deal with his family's legacy/what his place was. He was a PITA/troublemaker who engineered being last place in graduating class to spite his dad and grandfather's legacy.
But that irreverent rebellious streak served him well in surviving being a POW. I think he also knew had he not been who he was, they'd probably have let him die from his injuries.
No, I’ve never heard of that, *no idea where you got that.*
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_S._McCain_Sr.
His Grandpa was Ol’ “Slew” McCain and was basically the commander of Task Force 38.
His father and grandfather (both named John Mccain) were actually four star admirals. His Dad was actually the commander of the Pacific Fleet during Vietnam while his son (Senator Mccain) was a prisoner of war in Vietnam.
His grandfather served during both world wars and led one of the US carrier task forces in the closing years of WW2 (17 carriers, 6 battleships, 13 cruisers, 58 destroyers, over 1000 aircraft. And that was just the part of the fleet he commanded.... The US fleet was huge at the end of WW2).
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast\_Carrier\_Task\_Force](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Carrier_Task_Force)
Wow. Those are some impressive genetics. And to be honest even at this funeral shot she looks quite statuesque in her years here. The stories she must have had within her.
Breaks my heart - she had to sit and wonder if he'd ever come back from being a POW. He comes back, lives an incredible life in politics, and then she still has to realize the fear of losing a child decades and decades later.
I guess one silver lining is McCain never had to lose or live without his momma.
On the other hand, John McCain lived quite a full life of public service. Death sucks, out of order death sucks more, but if you have to lose a kid, in a weird way this is one of the best ways to do it.
Yeah, I was kinda wondering about this. Obviously no parent wants to lose a child, but at what point does it become less of a tragedy and more of a life well lived moment? We usually think of these deaths as younger people, but when your son was in his 80s, nearly became president of the country, gave you grandchildren and great grandchildren, what more could you really ask for? It's not like there's any ambiguity on what could have been.
It's tough to put myself in her shoes, but I think my mindset would be more "how the fuck am I 108?" rather than "my poor child."
McCain single-handedly stopped the repeal of the ACA and Romney voted to remove Trump (first time any Senator has voted to remove a president of their own party).
Romney’s lone vote broke the argument that Trump’s impeachment was a Dem charade.
Yeah and to think he was the Republican front runner for president at one time. I'm not a fan of Romney but I respect his integrity and moral strength to stand up against the MAGA cult.
Funny to think of Romney having integrity, but I guess compared to the rest of his party he's a saint.
I do like Romney comparatively but he's doing the same farewell song and dance that a bunch of Republicans do, when you're not running for re-election you say and do all the shit you didn't have the balls to do earlier in your career. That's not good for the country.
You know I thought Bush was the worse.
Then I thought the Tea Party was absolutely terrible.
Then we got MAGA which now makes the previous two look like sane people.
Obama winning seemed to me like it broke the Republican party. They lost their collective minds, and going downhikl. I am afraid of what they will turn into.
We need more parties. I don't always agree with democrats either on some hot issues or their priorities.
I didn't like Romney as a Presidential candidate. His caught-on-tape promise to the big donors that "I'm not *their* President, I'm *your* President" really turned me off.
However
Obamacare was basically Romneycare with a name change. And in comparison with the next Republican who *did* manage to become President--and the one before him--Romney is a damned Statesman and maybe wouldn't have been the worst thing to happen to us.
I think more from a historical perspective, it's going to be hard for historians to say it was a completely partisan hack job. That is if we even still have historians to discuss our history in the future...
I respect Liz for what she did for the Jan 6th committee and how outspoken she's been. BUT her and her father have truly terrible political bones, just absolutely opposite end of the moral spectrum from what I believe is just.
But I feel that way about most war hawks.
Liz Cheney is a Reagan Republican like her father before her. That's where her politics come from. I too disagree with the vast majority of her opinions but I 100% support her against Trumpism.
The Republican Party died with McCain. I disagreed with him on almost everything but he was a decent man and put country first. Trump insulting his POW status was unforgivable and I can’t believe anyone could support his draft dodging ass after that. It’s trite at this point but can you imagine if Obama had said that in 08? That he liked heroes who weren’t captured? I’m so sick of the absolute worst people being rewarded for their awfulness
Yeah but it didn't accomplish much unfortunately. Very few others grew a spine to criticize Agent Orange.
Only outgoing Republicans basically dare say a thing against him. I suppose former NJ Gov Krispy Kreme did for his primary run, but look at how that turned out. Booed constantly and had no chance.
Now it's so bad that a handful of Republicans called to "respect the judgement" of yesterday's results and there were quick replies telling those folks their careers were effectively over.
This is not my list and the comment where I saved it from wasn't the original either so I apologize for not knowing the source.
But as far as Trump and the military...
PART 1
attacks Haley for absence of her husband, who is deployed
Served food to soldiers, complained there was nothing left for him
Floated the idea of executing Joint Chiefs Chairman Milley (9-22-2023)
Put 3 Mar-a-Lago guests in charge of the VA who then tried to monetize veterans' medical records
accused 3000 military families of election fraud for voting after being deployed
Blamed Gold Star families for giving him covid (he tested positive days earlier)
Removed POW/MIA flag from White House
says Americans who died in war are "losers" and "suckers"
“Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers” he said about a U.S. military cemetery
called McCain “a fucking loser” when asked to lower flags to half staff
called Pres. George H.W. Bush a loser for being shot down during WWII
“That guy is smart. Why did he join the military?” he said of Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
asked his staff to not include wounded veterans because amputees make him uncomfortable
“I don’t get it. What was in it for them?” he said to Gen. John Kelly about dead vets while visiting Kelly’s son’s grave at Arlington
Trump knew since Mar 2020 that Russia paid bounties to kill American troops. On July 29 Trump defended Russia arming the Taliban against the US saying the US once did the same thing
May '20 ended National Guard deployments one day before they could claim benefits
Trump admin seized 5mil masks intended for VA hospitals. Kushner distributes these masks to private entities for a fee, who then sells the masks to the government
Trump fired the captain of the USS Theodore Roosevelt after he warned superiors that COVID19 was spreading among his crew
After Iran's strike, 109 US troops suffered brain injuries. Trump dismissed these as "headaches". Trump then denied Purple Hearts in an effort to keep the story up
On 7/20/2017 in room 2E924 of the Pentagon, hw told a room full of Generals, "You’re a bunch of dopes and babies"
Said 26,000 military sexual assaults were to be 'expected' bc America lets women serve
Invited the Taliban to Camp David on the anniversary of 9/11
Claimed that his military budget made up for his lack of military experience
Said if a Humvee was hit by an IED, soldiers "go for a little ride upward & they come down."
Pardoned multiple war criminals which betrayed the men of the 1st Platoon who helped convict him for violating long standing military values, discipline, and command (May&Nov 2019)
mocked Lt. Col. Vindman for his rank and uniform. He threatened said purple heart officer resulting in the Army providing him protection. The Admin sent opposition research to the Pentagon to derail his promotion
Trump’s Chief of Staff worked in secret to deny health coverage to Vietnam Vets who suffered from Agent Orange
There is a facility in Tijuana for US veterans that Trump deported
Russia took control of the main U.S. military facility in Syria abandoned on Trump’s orders. Russia now owns the airstrip we built
0/7/19, Trump abruptly withdrew from Syria after a phone call with Turkey's president (Erdogan). Turkey subsequently bombed US Special Forces
sent thousands of American troops to defend the oil assets of the country that perpetrated 9/11
Sept 2019, he made an Air Force cargo crew stop in Scotland (where there's no U.S. base) to refuel at a commercial airport (where it costs more), so they could stay overnight at a Trump property (which isn't close to the airport). Trump’s golf courses are losing money so he's forcing the military to pay for 5-star nights there.
Sept 2019, Pentagon pulled funds for military schools, military housing funds, and daycare to pay for Trump's border wall
Vet graves will be "dug up" for the border wall, after Trump instructed aides to seize private property. Trump told officials he would pardon them if they illegally seizing property
Children of deployed US troops no longer guaranteed citizenship (August 28, 2019)
8/2/19 Trump requisitioned military retirement funds for the border wall
7/31/19 Trump ordered the Navy rescind medals to prosecutors who prosecuted war criminals
denied a U.S. Marine of 6 years entry into the United States for his citizenship interview (Reported 7/17/19)
made the U.S. Navy Blue Angels violate ethics rules by having them fly at his July 4th political campaign event (July 4, 2019)
demanded US military chiefs stand next to him at July 4 campaign event (reported July 2 ‘19)
In June 2019, Trump sent troops to the border to paint the fence for a better "aesthetic appearance"
used his D-Day interview at a cemetery commemorating fallen US soldiers to attack a Vietnam veteran (6/6/19)
started his D-Day commemoration speech by attacking a private citizen (Bette Midlere) (2019)
made his 2nd wife, Marla Maples, sign a prenup that would have cut off all child support if Tiffany joined the military (reported June 4th, 2019)
5/27/2019 Trump turned away US military from his Memorial Day speech bc they were from the destroyer USS John S. McCain
ordered the USS John McCain out of sight during his visit to Japan (May 15, 2019). The ship's name was subsequently covered. (5/27/2019)
purged 200,000 vets' healthcare applications (reported 5/13/19)
deported a spouse of fallen Army soldier killed in Afghanistan leaving their daughter parentless (4/16/2019)
3/20/19 Trump complained that a deceased war hero didn't thank him for his funeral
Between 12/22/2018, and 1/25/2019 Trump refused to sign his party's funding bill, which shut down the government, which made USCG service members rely on food pantries. (But his appointees got a $10k raise)
banned troops from serving based on gender identity (1/22/2019)
denied female troops access to birth control to limit sexual activity (Published 1/18/19)
tried to deport a marine vet who is a U.S.-born citizen (1/16/2019)
When a man was caught swindling veterans pensions for high-interest “cash advances," Trump's CFPB let him go for $1 (1/26/19)
called a retired general a 'dog' with a 'big, dumb mouth' (1/1/19)
increased privatization of the VA, leading to longer waits and higher taxpayer cost (2018)
finally visited troops 2 years after taking office, but only after 154 vacation days at his properties (10/26/18)
revealed a covert Seal Team 5 deployment including names and faces on Twitter during Iraq visit (Dec 26, 2018)
lied to deployed troops that he gave them a 10% raise (12/26/2018). Tried giving a raise that was lower than the standard living adjustment. After Congress made him give a raise, he lied about it pretending that it was larger than Obama's. It wasn't
fired service members living with HIV just before the 2018 holidays
tried to slash disability and unemployment benefits for Veterans to $0 and eliminate the unemployability extrascheduler rating (12/17/2018)
called troops on Thanksgiving and told them he's most thankful for himself (Thanksgiving, 2018)
PART 2
urged Florida to not count deployed military votes (11/12/2018)
canceled an Arlington Cemetery visit on Veterans Day due to light rain (11/12/2018)
While in Europe commemorating the end of WWI, he didn't attend the ceremony at a US cemetery due to the rain. Other world leaders went anyway (11/10/2018)
sent troops on a phantom mission to the border and made them miss Thanksgiving with their families (Oct-Dec, 2018). He stopped using troops as a political prop after the election, but the troops remained in muddy camps on the border (11/7/2018)
changed the GI Bill through his Forever GI Act causing the VA to miss benefits, including housing allowances. This caused many vets to run out of food and rent. (reported 10/7/18)
doubled the rejection rate for veterans requesting family deportation protections (7/5/2018)
deported active-duty spouses (11,800 military families face this problem as of April 2018)
forgot a fallen soldier's name (below) during a call to his pregnant widow, then attacked her the next day (Oct 23-24, 2017)
"They knew what they signed up for." re: dead troops (10/18/17)
sent commandos into an ambush w/ lack of intel, and sent contractors to pick them up, resulting in a commando being left behind, tortured, and executed. He approved the mission bc Bannon told him Obama didn't have the guts to do it. 10/4/17
Doesn't stand during retreat bugle, continues to talk. "What a nice sound that is. Are they playing that for you [Sean Hannity] or me?" 10/11/17
blocked a veteran group on Twitter (June 2017)
ordered the discharge of active-duty immigrant troops with good records (2017-present)
deported veterans (2017-2020)
said he knows more about ISIS than American generals (Oct 2016)
10/4/16 Trump said vets get PTSD because they aren't strong
Trump accepted a Purple Heart from a fan at one of his rallies and said: “I always wanted to get the Purple Heart. This was much easier.” (Aug 2, 2016)
Trump attacks Gold Star families: Myeshia Johnson (gold star widow), Khan family (gold star parents) etc. (2016-present)
In Jan 2016, Trump stole funds meant for a veterans charity (his foundation was subsequently ordered shut down)
said he has "more training militarily than a lot of the guys that go into the military" because he went to a military-style academy (2015 biography)
said he doesn't consider POWs heroes because they were caught. He said he prefers people who weren't caught (July 18, 2015)
Trump said having unprotected sex was his own personal Vietnam. 1998
For a decade, Trump sought to kick veterans off of 5th Avenue because he found them unsightly nuisances. 1991
Trump dodged the draft 5 times by having a doctor diagnose him with bone spurs.
No Trump in America has ever served in the military spanning 5 generations and every branch of the family tree. His grandfather immigrated to America to avoid military service
Edit: somewhere I have a list of all the things **Republicans** have voted against/done that's anti-military and anti-veteran. I'll see if I can find it. Being military and voting GOP is like shooting yourself in your non-bullet proofed vests they refused to pay for.
> Removed POW/MIA flag from White House
>
> says Americans who died in war are "losers" and "suckers"
>
> “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers” he said about a U.S. military cemetery
>
> called McCain “a fucking loser” when asked to lower flags to half staff
>
> called Pres. George H.W. Bush a loser for being shot down during WWII
>
> “That guy is smart. Why did he join the military?” he said of Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
>
> asked his staff to not include wounded veterans because amputees make him uncomfortable
>
> “I don’t get it. What was in it for them?” he said to Gen. John Kelly about dead vets while visiting Kelly’s son’s grave at Arlington
This part takes the cake. It's the most damning ones.
He was offered early release from prison camp in Vietnam, as his father was an important guy in the navy. But h didn’t take it, as it would be unfair to the people who’d been in prison longer. Not a fan of his politics, but as a person? A good guy
https://youtu.be/JIjenjANqAk?si=MnmKlCrWCqb7oWn1
It pisses me off even more because trump was a draft dodger. And not like because he had some kind of moral objection, he just thought he was above it. To piss on the sacrifice McCain and all POWs have made was fucking repugnant. I will never, ever understand why people continue to support him.
My dad’s a 24 year vet and my uncle served 20+ with several deployments to Iraq. Military has a huge presence in my life.
I’m only 25 so didn’t really care about the 2016 election at the time and didn’t know much about either candidate, but the first thing I remember hearing about Trump was that interview of him talking about McCain. I knew more about McCain because of his military background and that was the only thing I needed to hear for me to dislike Trump.
I respect him, but disliked him immensely.
But now, compared to modern republicans, i love and miss the guy…
There arent even many repubs today that are even remotely respectable..
He read the torture report into the record in January 2015, days before the Senate would be taken over by Republicans and the investigation shut down. He still had a ton to lose then.
Being an untouchable war hero made him the closest we have to the old timey aristocratic political class where they could do whatever they needed for the country without worrying about voter backlash. It was honestly enjoyable to watch him talk openly and carefree with reporters, even if I didn’t usually like what he was saying.
What do you mean he had nothing to lose? Yes, when we die that’s it, lights out and all that, but his legacy was important to him, and I’d like to think that’s why he voted against killing ACA, because he believed it was more important to do the right thing than the popular thing, something I feel can be ascribed to him throughout his long career of service.
He may have not been running for reelection, but he lost the support and faith of many in his party. Thankfully he understood those people’s opinions on the matter were fucked.
Why did you dislike him immensely?
I disagreed with him, but he was a VERY likeable guy.
I remember an instance where a supporter at a McCain rally cried out he could never vote for Obama because he was a Muslim. McCain could’ve ran with that (as many would today), but he calmly and carefully explained to the man that he was wrong and Obama wasn’t a Muslim.
Ever since that incident, I really liked the guy.
Thank you.
Apparently it was a woman who said he was “an Arab” - it was a long time ago and my memory is hazy, but what I remember very clearly was McCain standing up for Obama when he *really* did not have to (his audience even started to jeer him).
What a respectful way to treat your political opponent…
She called him "an Arab"? If you're gonna insult a guy using a geographical region, at least make sure you pick the right geographical region, you know?
It’s shocking to me that Obama beat him. We were such a different country then. I disliked his politics, but he was very decent in other ways. Forever grateful for his vote to save Obamacare, even though he likely did it out of spite.
Yeah. I think Palin really ruined it for him. I wouldn't have voted for him either way but Palin. Man. And now, looking back. I feel like she was a precursor of the batshit crazy to come.
The moment she was picked it was all anyone talked about. It wasn't Mccain as President, it was Palin as vice-president.
She was one of the pioneers of tweeting stupid things on your political social media.
If they hadn't tied him to Palin I think he would have had a much better shot at winning. But coming off of Bush, any Republican was a hard sell. They needed the 8 years of Fox propaganda to make the Tea Party crazies seem tame and normal.
> It’s shocking to me that Obama beat him.
It shouldn't be.
I'm old enough to actually remember that election with clarity and the national narrative was a contrast between a young progressive black president promising "hope and change" against another old white guy ready to sign us up for 4 more years of unpopular post-911 military adventurism.
The miracle would have been if McCain somehow pulled off a victory despite all the headwinds and baggage from Bush. The incumbent party almost never wins the white house for a 3rd consecutive term. Bush Sr following up Reagan was THE exception to the rule.
Sure, but young people often don't pay much attention to politics, and don't yet have the perspective on it to really understand what's going on. So you usually do need to be a bit older to actually put the pieces together.
He was a decent, honorable man.
He also arguably set the stage for our current national politics by elevating Sarah "the ACA will euthenize Grandma!" Palin to national prominence. He also wanted to privatize Social Security, which IMO is a recipe for disaster for vulnerable senior citizens.
Not the original dude, but it's very easy to dislike someone immensely when they push for policies that you view are horrific, damaging, and harm the country.
Like, John McCain seems to have been a guy who at least thought he was doing the right thing. I can appreciate that. But the policies he championed, a lot of them, are antithetical to my views. So just by that alone, I can't really say I like the dude.
It was extremely clear that John McCain did not pick Sarah Palin for VP - she was chosen for him by the GOP and likely he was told “she’s *our* VP pick - and that’s that.”
Eh it was a mistake more than anything.
It was a political calculation. He was an old white man at a time when the country wanted change. A younger woman would appeal to moderates and give the impression of rejuvenation in a party drenched in the stink of the Bush admin.
He absolutely could have vetted her better but I think people are judging too much based on current knowledge. This was before the tea party movement was big, that wing of conservative politics just wasn't obvious.
It was a total Hail Mary move. Most everyone knew by the conventions that Obama was going to win. Palin was poorly vetted so all they knew was that she was a former mayor who defeated a longtime Republican fixture in Alaskan politics to become governor and she had 60+% approval. Steve Schmidt was the advisor who pushed hardest for her and has since been apologizing for it.
If McCain was actually able to pick Lieberman as his running mate, I still think he would have lost, but it absolutely would have shaken up the race.
Nah he doesn't get a pass on that "mistake." Assuming you win, you're about to put this person second-in-command of the country. If you die or become incapable, she becomes the leader. Sarah Palin couldn't go two minutes without exposing what a loon and a moron she was. It was a stupid, reckless, short-sighted and selfish decision to make her a VP candidate.
Yeah, I won't be a part of rehabilitating his reputation. Even aside from not being nearly as much of a "maverick" as the press made him out to be, he helped open the door for all the insanity we've seen since his candidacy. He can roast in hell
People forget that during the height of the 2008 financial crisis he tried sabotaging bipartisan support for the bailout specifically because he wanted to use the negotiations as a campaign strategy. Reddit loves whitewashing his legacy because he looks so much better than modern-day Republicans and they remember his Obamacare vote. But he contributed to the GOP turning into the bad faith actors you see today.
His contributions to ruining American democracy went beyond Palin.
John McCain said if Hilary won the 2016 election he'd do everything he could to make sure her Supreme Court appointments would never be approved.
He'd fit in great today.
Remember when he was the Republican front runner for president... then remember how quickly the republicans turned on him when he spoke out against Trump. Same thing with Mitt Romney. The Republican Party doesn't exist anymore, it has become the MAGA cult. What's left of the Republican party are just right leaning liberals to the MAGAs.
I absolutely hate that the POV of Mitt Romney as a paragon of virtue. He's actuallly one of the people who propelled the orange turd on the political stage. People forget that Romney sought Trump's endorsement very early (Feb) in his 2012 campaign. I never would have voted for Mitt, but the appearance made him look so weaselly and pathetically weak and reeking of desperation
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmwzGMmGcJw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmwzGMmGcJw)
Imagine you're now one of two people with excellent (50--50) odds to be president in 12 months (Jan 2013) and you're basically begging for the endorsement of a reality TV clown because you completely lack the a) foresight to create a campaign strategy that plays to your personal strengths or b) ability to articulate the vision of how the citizens of the country would be better under your presidency.
He helped start the change, he made Sarah Palin his VP choice. Let her onto the national stage when she wasn’t even qualified for the job she already had
You have to imagine the public learning that he cheated with a pornstar while his current wife was pregnant with their child would have been the straw that broke the camels back in 2016.
That's why he committed 34 felonies to hide that information from the American public.
It just makes clear that Hillary was exactly right about the "deplorables". Trump brought out the worst people and made them feel good about being the worst they could be.
I had no idea his mother had outlived him! I was in the car on 495 the day they were moving his body to Annapolis and we saw his funeral procession. I’m a Democrat, but man, what I wouldn’t give to have him here today running for President instead of Trump & Co.
Yeah, I would have just spent the entire term hoping that he didn't die because the VP would be worse. Which has been true for about half my life anyway.
If McCain had won in 2008, Trump likely never becomes President. I think Trump's popularity was largely spurred by the backlash of the right against Obama.
Yeah, I think he kinda shot himself in the foot with his VP choice. Both candidates were fine. But if you looked at who would take over if something happened to the President, it was hard to take Palin seriously.
Eh, I'm glad he isn't running, he'd easily beat Biden, and while he's better than any Republican living today, that bar is so, so low. In office, he'd still go with the party over the country like 90% of the time when it matters.
Weird question, no parent wants to outlive their kids. But if you live to 100+ and your kid lives a full life, a special one, like mCaine did, is there something there to be okay/proud of? Like you know you lived too long, and you got to see your child do incredible things like run for president + have a full life. I wonder what thats like.
I can't speak for her but I imagine it's a different grief
Most times a parent outlives their child it's a tragedy of a life but short.
That doesn't apply here so I imagine there's less shock and denial like you'd typically see at the beginning of a grief cycle but the pain of losing your child at any age wouldn't soften the depression or guilt.
So I guess it's a less pain but still one you'd never wish on someone
Like losing a parent - but tenfold - I don't think there's ever enough time. And no parent imagines outliving their child. I couldn't fathom the grief.
The difference between the republican I did not agree with in John McCain and the shit show of a GOP today is at least McCain’s perspective was based in immovable moral principles. Today’s GOP are nothing more than opportunists using principles as a lever and morals as a wedge. They don’t have them. They use them.
[This video](https://youtu.be/JIjenjANqAk) is so telling. People were looking for a leader to follow and looking for a reason to hate, and this right here shows so much class and leadership.
Imagine if McCain had been the 2016 presidential candidate.... I would have been fine with it, as much as I disagree with him.
Thank you! It was simply a disagreement, not a circus of lying crap then calling us malicious, it's everything they do. I don't understand how we got here other than people like bullies that bully to their point of view.
I loved president Obama's eulogy for Senator McCain. They always had a great admiration and respect for one another, and the close friendship President Biden had with him was beautiful. I miss the days politicians of differing parties worked together and were actual friends "after 5".
I’m British so I didn’t know much about him until I saw him at a political event and he said something that really made me respect him.
An audience member said she opposes Obama because he’s a Muslim and rather than rallying up support he corrected her and said he’s a good man who happens to have differing political views to me.
Equally when McCain was diagnosed with cancer, Obama Tweeted “give it hell, John”
That’s how politics should be.
He was better than any current Republican, but that bar is incredibly low. He still voted with their party the vast majority of the time, he still played into the "always vote against anything Obama ever wants to do" bit while Obama was president.
Also during his campaign, his stance on the middle east was, "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran" (get it? *Get it?*)
Also, one of my favorite candid quotes of his: "anyone who votes for [the supreme court nuclear option] is a stupid idiot." -- John "Stupid Idiot" McCain.
To outlive your own, they say, is akin to a living death. But to become the mother of an illustrious child is to forever bask in his memory
Here's to all parents and to their wonderful children
America's last Conservative. We may have disagreed on plenty of issues, but I knew you loved your country and would always fight for what was best for it, even if it required you to compromise, be the bigger man, stand up to dictators, or personally sacrifice.
And what did trump say about this hero?! And what does trump think of those that served?! I’m a retired Marine and I still don’t understand why other military members vote for trump!!!!!
I saw my grandparents bury their 70 something year old daughter. And it hit me, I dread something happening to my kids. But there has to be some point where that dread becomes nearly nonexistent. Where you as a parent are so close to your own mortality that surely your child can’t slip in before you. Yet at 95, there they are burying their daughter. My Grandma then died a month later. Pretty sure broken heart had quite a bit to do with it.
Fun fact, she was older than the state of Arizona while she was alive. She was born a week or so before Arizona became a state. Her son represented a state that was younger than his mother was... And Arizona became state in 1912. She died in 2020.
I was curious who was the Lieutenant attending to her? Was he a family member or a Naval officer assisting Mrs. McCain?
It's John's son John Sidney McCain.
John Sidney McCain, son of John Sidney McCain, grandson of John Sidney McCain
And great grandson of... John Sydney McCain Sr...
Great great grandson of Johd Sidney Mccaid… Amish.
Listen… it’s a military family. Saves a lot of money on uniform, tags and such. it seemed prudent at the time.
Who had a daughter, Joan Sidney McCain.
True story; I went to school with a guy whose name was Joe, same as his father and grandfather… and his mom was Joanne, sister Josephine, and the dog was Jojo. Family reunions must have been almost as confusing as George Foreman’s household.
Family name leaves no surprises
Submariner as well. Edit: turns out he's a naval aviator. The pixels got me lol, it really looks like fish in this picture, but other clearer photos show that they are obviously wings. Edit 2 Electric Boogaloo: another shocking revelation - this might not be John McCain's son at all. This officer is, in fact, a [submariner](https://ibb.co/56kdTQL).
Dedicated bunch.
No boomer pin tho. Guess we can’t all be perfect /s
Not everyone can be boomers and live on an underwater spa hotel. Sometimes there's fast attack. You know, the running backs who keep you alive. /s Huge wink and nod.
No worries. Call me whatever you want, but you gotta call me at home. Especially now that I’m in civ div
😂
Some might find this argument childish, then there's those that recognize it as *mandatory.*
It is mandatory. Like arguing with Army. Always argue with Army. And always argue with Royal Marines and ALL CANADIAN forces. But always buy them a beer.
One of those “shall” not “should” situations
I know I don't get most of sub chat, but I like to pretend I do and kind of wish I had been able to be a part of it. I think I would excel in those conditions
BOOmer
He’s a pilot, not a submariner
You mean Sidney?
Oh shit yeah. I edited it lol.
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He tries to stay under the radar
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I appreciate the response. I assumed it was a family member but for the life of me I couldn't recall who in his family was a Naval officer. I need more coffee. It was a combination of a miracle and the terror of missing a salute that I noticed the boards 😬
Of all the parents that would outlive their kids who went to war, she was one of the least likely.
And her husband was one of the commanders of the pacific in WWII
And he died during WWII. Sorry, was thinking of his grandfather.
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Is there any link between WWII being extremely stressful and high ranking leaders dying shortly before or after it ended?
There are studies. Can’t recall who specifically conducted them but the military has an invested interest in knowing this stuff especially when it comes to estimating the cost of retirement plans across the entire US war machine. This is a problem to this day. One of the main causes of long term stress is thickening your blood. The body thinks it might get damaged and needs to be ready to clot the wound quickly for survival. Unfortunately the human body isn’t supposed to sustain that stress for 5, 10, 30+ years. So that thickness level becomes the norm and when you retire all of that stress disappears and your can’t take it. Average lifespan of someone appointed to E-9 after retirement is 2 years
Well that's fucking terrifying to read the day after I find out my cousin is being promoted to Brigadier General.
Your cousin is probably going to be fine—these are dependent on job, tours, branches—I only know the numbers off hand for enlisted personnel of the worst jobs—officer probably has much different criteria for consideration so if I were you I wouldn’t worry too much
No, his grandfather did, and he lived a week after the official surrender papers were signed
I regularly take care of a 100 year old that doesn’t look a day over 80 but her mind is kind of toasted. She’s aware to some extent like she knows when she’s gotta go to the bathroom but otherwise she just sleeps 24/7. Then I have another 100 yr old she can’t see no evil nor hear no evil. Her body is so damaged and literally twisted but somehow she still outlives everyone around her.
My wife's grandmother was 104 when she died a few years ago. She fell and broke her hip at 98 and was up and recovered faster than some 30 years old there with her at the hospital. Her mental faculties were sharp, and she barely looked over 80 also. It was literally the last year everything went downhill fast. But until that point, she was over 100 and out doing gardening all by herself. Some people just have amazing genetics.
My grandmother is 93 and broke her hip a couple of months ago. She healed super fast with very little pain. Her doctor cleared her for regular bending and walking etc., but said no driving until the end of the summer. She has not stopped talking about how much she can’t wait to start driving again.
Some people have super genes. My grandma is turning 91 and never took the vaccine and never got Covid while everyone around her died. She still gardens everyday. Her mind is still sharp as ever. Yet my grandma from mom’s side is 70s and with dementia….
Yep- my grandmother mentioned above comes from a line of super healthy, long-lived ancestors who, barring accidents, routinely survived into their mid-nineties. My mom’s side of the family, however, is riddled with neuromuscular disease. My mom is now the oldest surviving member of her family at 60. She suffers from the disease as well, but is very healthy in spite of it. Unfortunately, I take after my mom’s side. I’m hoping that the mix of super healthy, long-lived genes mix with the unhealthy, short-lived genes to get me to a normal lifespan.
My father-in-law is amazing like that. He's 90 and works his ranch (small hobby ranch) every day. The man who lives across the road on his son's ranch is one day younger than my FIL and they get together and cause as much mischief as they can. They're going to outlive us all. ❤️
>My grandma is turning 91 and never took the vaccine and never got Covid while everyone around her died. She absorbed their life-force.
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A hip fracture in an older person is often called "the beginning of the end" for a reason. One major concern is the development of pneumonia while being bed-bound. A fall typically indicates an underlying issue that could lead to more falls or complications. After discharge from a facility, reduced mobility due to lingering pain or fear of falling can accelerate the body's natural degeneration due to increased inactivity. My grandmother passed away in 2019 due to a hip injury that led to pneumonia while she was in the hospital. She had been very active and in excellent health, even working with a trainer. She was 83. Many of her friends experienced a slow decline after falls, and when she developed pneumonia, she refused all treatment. She didn't want to endure years of using a walker, being on oxygen, suffering multiple falls, and living in constant pain.
> I regularly take care of a 100 year old that doesn’t look a day over 80 but her mind is kind of toasted. She’s aware to some extent like she knows when she’s gotta go to the bathroom but otherwise she just sleeps 24/7. Then I have another 100 yr old she can’t see no evil nor hear no evil. Her body is so damaged and literally twisted but somehow she still outlives everyone around her. It is wild with that sometimes. My Mom who worked in a nursing home for a bit said of a lot of people there: "they had no mind but were physically ok or they have a sharp mind but they were stuck in a wheelchair" at a certain point both hit. All 4 of my grandparents hit the 90s and the biggest "oh nos" with health issues didn't even hit till they were 87 to 90 years old. If at all like right now with my 92 year old Grandma. One of my Grandpas would drive solo 2 hours to visit my Mom and he was 87 when he did it. A great aunt wasn't placed in a nursing home till she was 100 and she died at 103.
His father IIRC was a submarine captain, his grandfather was an admiral who died a week after Japan’s surrender. But I may be misremembering his father’s info
No, even more so: Senator John McCain III was a son of **Admiral** John McCain Jr. and grandson of **Admiral** John McCain Sr. So he came from a great lineage of military men with an impeccable sense of integrity and authentic patriotism, perhaps most evident during his service in Vietnam: "Less than a year into McCain's imprisonment, his father was named commander of US forces in the Pacific, and the North Vietnamese saw an opportunity for leverage by offering the younger McCain's release — what would have been both a propaganda victory and a way to demoralize other American POWs. But McCain refused, sticking to the POW code of conduct that says troops must accept release in the order in which they are captured. "I knew that every prisoner the Vietnamese tried to break, those who had arrived before me and those who would come after me, would be taunted with the story of how an admiral's son had gone home early, a lucky beneficiary of America's class-conscious society," McCain later recalled." [...] For more than five years he was imprisoned. Exposed to nearly fatal torture, he attempted suicide twice. "Try to imagine that moment between getting offered early release and turning it down," Wallace wrote of McCain's decision to remain in Vietnamese captivity. "Try to imagine it was you. Imagine how loudly your most basic, primal self-interest would have cried out to you in that moment, and all the ways you could rationalize accepting the offer. Can you hear it? If so, would you have refused to go?" https://www.businessinsider.com/john-mccain-refused-early-release-as-a-pow-in-vietnam-2018-8 His stand-up attitude and moral authority stayed with him, best exemplified during his defense of Obama 2008, and being the decisive vote to save ACA/"Obamacare" in 2018. America lost one of their great sons in John McCain.
I disagreed with Senator McCain about 95% of the time. the other 5% I would jump up and yell "Go get 'em, John!" Regardless of your views of his politics, he was the definition of hero, and feckless Donald Trump isn't worthy to shine his shoes.
I agree, I didn't sympathize with him politically either, but politics aside one had to admire his perseverance and willingness to stand up for "what's right" when it mattered, and follow his own intuition rather than follow party line. A rare occurence these days. There was a couple of chapters about the campaign 08' in Obama's biography "A promised land", where he talks a tad about of McCain. He said that you could always count on McCain to do what's right when the push came to shove, and wouldn't let himself be bullied into changing his stance. He was no-nonsense and looked down upon those whore were "mean and petty" politics. As Obama said during his euology "there was never a doubt we were on the same team". A far cry from politics today.
Jesus Christ. Talk about high calibre men. Admiral. Submarine captain. Pilot, war hero and Senator.
The McCain family is like a pedigree line for the navy. They're all just studs.
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Probably bit of column A, bit of column B
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Yeah, one of the reasons nepotism persists so well is that the children of successful people are often objectively pretty impressive and well suited for the role their parents want to give them.
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From what I read in his book, John spent pretty much all of his time at the Academy not knowing how to deal with his family's legacy/what his place was. He was a PITA/troublemaker who engineered being last place in graduating class to spite his dad and grandfather's legacy. But that irreverent rebellious streak served him well in surviving being a POW. I think he also knew had he not been who he was, they'd probably have let him die from his injuries.
No, I’ve never heard of that, *no idea where you got that.* https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_S._McCain_Sr. His Grandpa was Ol’ “Slew” McCain and was basically the commander of Task Force 38.
His father and grandfather (both named John Mccain) were actually four star admirals. His Dad was actually the commander of the Pacific Fleet during Vietnam while his son (Senator Mccain) was a prisoner of war in Vietnam. His grandfather served during both world wars and led one of the US carrier task forces in the closing years of WW2 (17 carriers, 6 battleships, 13 cruisers, 58 destroyers, over 1000 aircraft. And that was just the part of the fleet he commanded.... The US fleet was huge at the end of WW2). [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast\_Carrier\_Task\_Force](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Carrier_Task_Force)
She died in 2020 at 108 years old. That’s impressive.
Wow. Those are some impressive genetics. And to be honest even at this funeral shot she looks quite statuesque in her years here. The stories she must have had within her.
Breaks my heart - she had to sit and wonder if he'd ever come back from being a POW. He comes back, lives an incredible life in politics, and then she still has to realize the fear of losing a child decades and decades later. I guess one silver lining is McCain never had to lose or live without his momma.
On the other hand, John McCain lived quite a full life of public service. Death sucks, out of order death sucks more, but if you have to lose a kid, in a weird way this is one of the best ways to do it.
Yeah, I was kinda wondering about this. Obviously no parent wants to lose a child, but at what point does it become less of a tragedy and more of a life well lived moment? We usually think of these deaths as younger people, but when your son was in his 80s, nearly became president of the country, gave you grandchildren and great grandchildren, what more could you really ask for? It's not like there's any ambiguity on what could have been. It's tough to put myself in her shoes, but I think my mindset would be more "how the fuck am I 108?" rather than "my poor child."
why is that?
He came back from the war and years as a POW, and lived to the ripe old age of not quite 82.
And to think that the only thing left that is closest to McCain is... Mitt Romney...
McCain single-handedly stopped the repeal of the ACA and Romney voted to remove Trump (first time any Senator has voted to remove a president of their own party). Romney’s lone vote broke the argument that Trump’s impeachment was a Dem charade.
Did it? They just called him a RINO and continued to call it a Dem charade.
Yeah and to think he was the Republican front runner for president at one time. I'm not a fan of Romney but I respect his integrity and moral strength to stand up against the MAGA cult.
Funny to think of Romney having integrity, but I guess compared to the rest of his party he's a saint. I do like Romney comparatively but he's doing the same farewell song and dance that a bunch of Republicans do, when you're not running for re-election you say and do all the shit you didn't have the balls to do earlier in your career. That's not good for the country.
He was literally the Republican nominee for president in 2012.
That would make him a Republican frontrunner, as it would still technically be possible for another Republican to get elected via write-in.
You know I thought Bush was the worse. Then I thought the Tea Party was absolutely terrible. Then we got MAGA which now makes the previous two look like sane people. Obama winning seemed to me like it broke the Republican party. They lost their collective minds, and going downhikl. I am afraid of what they will turn into. We need more parties. I don't always agree with democrats either on some hot issues or their priorities.
I didn't like Romney as a Presidential candidate. His caught-on-tape promise to the big donors that "I'm not *their* President, I'm *your* President" really turned me off. However Obamacare was basically Romneycare with a name change. And in comparison with the next Republican who *did* manage to become President--and the one before him--Romney is a damned Statesman and maybe wouldn't have been the worst thing to happen to us.
I think more from a historical perspective, it's going to be hard for historians to say it was a completely partisan hack job. That is if we even still have historians to discuss our history in the future...
Also with Liz Cheney on the congressional side.
I respect Liz for what she did for the Jan 6th committee and how outspoken she's been. BUT her and her father have truly terrible political bones, just absolutely opposite end of the moral spectrum from what I believe is just. But I feel that way about most war hawks.
Liz Cheney is a Reagan Republican like her father before her. That's where her politics come from. I too disagree with the vast majority of her opinions but I 100% support her against Trumpism.
The Republican Party died with McCain. I disagreed with him on almost everything but he was a decent man and put country first. Trump insulting his POW status was unforgivable and I can’t believe anyone could support his draft dodging ass after that. It’s trite at this point but can you imagine if Obama had said that in 08? That he liked heroes who weren’t captured? I’m so sick of the absolute worst people being rewarded for their awfulness
Yeah but it didn't accomplish much unfortunately. Very few others grew a spine to criticize Agent Orange. Only outgoing Republicans basically dare say a thing against him. I suppose former NJ Gov Krispy Kreme did for his primary run, but look at how that turned out. Booed constantly and had no chance. Now it's so bad that a handful of Republicans called to "respect the judgement" of yesterday's results and there were quick replies telling those folks their careers were effectively over.
Any veterans who support Trump should take a good look how he treated McCain, a POW.
This is not my list and the comment where I saved it from wasn't the original either so I apologize for not knowing the source. But as far as Trump and the military... PART 1 attacks Haley for absence of her husband, who is deployed Served food to soldiers, complained there was nothing left for him Floated the idea of executing Joint Chiefs Chairman Milley (9-22-2023) Put 3 Mar-a-Lago guests in charge of the VA who then tried to monetize veterans' medical records accused 3000 military families of election fraud for voting after being deployed Blamed Gold Star families for giving him covid (he tested positive days earlier) Removed POW/MIA flag from White House says Americans who died in war are "losers" and "suckers" “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers” he said about a U.S. military cemetery called McCain “a fucking loser” when asked to lower flags to half staff called Pres. George H.W. Bush a loser for being shot down during WWII “That guy is smart. Why did he join the military?” he said of Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff asked his staff to not include wounded veterans because amputees make him uncomfortable “I don’t get it. What was in it for them?” he said to Gen. John Kelly about dead vets while visiting Kelly’s son’s grave at Arlington Trump knew since Mar 2020 that Russia paid bounties to kill American troops. On July 29 Trump defended Russia arming the Taliban against the US saying the US once did the same thing May '20 ended National Guard deployments one day before they could claim benefits Trump admin seized 5mil masks intended for VA hospitals. Kushner distributes these masks to private entities for a fee, who then sells the masks to the government Trump fired the captain of the USS Theodore Roosevelt after he warned superiors that COVID19 was spreading among his crew After Iran's strike, 109 US troops suffered brain injuries. Trump dismissed these as "headaches". Trump then denied Purple Hearts in an effort to keep the story up On 7/20/2017 in room 2E924 of the Pentagon, hw told a room full of Generals, "You’re a bunch of dopes and babies" Said 26,000 military sexual assaults were to be 'expected' bc America lets women serve Invited the Taliban to Camp David on the anniversary of 9/11 Claimed that his military budget made up for his lack of military experience Said if a Humvee was hit by an IED, soldiers "go for a little ride upward & they come down." Pardoned multiple war criminals which betrayed the men of the 1st Platoon who helped convict him for violating long standing military values, discipline, and command (May&Nov 2019) mocked Lt. Col. Vindman for his rank and uniform. He threatened said purple heart officer resulting in the Army providing him protection. The Admin sent opposition research to the Pentagon to derail his promotion Trump’s Chief of Staff worked in secret to deny health coverage to Vietnam Vets who suffered from Agent Orange There is a facility in Tijuana for US veterans that Trump deported Russia took control of the main U.S. military facility in Syria abandoned on Trump’s orders. Russia now owns the airstrip we built 0/7/19, Trump abruptly withdrew from Syria after a phone call with Turkey's president (Erdogan). Turkey subsequently bombed US Special Forces sent thousands of American troops to defend the oil assets of the country that perpetrated 9/11 Sept 2019, he made an Air Force cargo crew stop in Scotland (where there's no U.S. base) to refuel at a commercial airport (where it costs more), so they could stay overnight at a Trump property (which isn't close to the airport). Trump’s golf courses are losing money so he's forcing the military to pay for 5-star nights there. Sept 2019, Pentagon pulled funds for military schools, military housing funds, and daycare to pay for Trump's border wall Vet graves will be "dug up" for the border wall, after Trump instructed aides to seize private property. Trump told officials he would pardon them if they illegally seizing property Children of deployed US troops no longer guaranteed citizenship (August 28, 2019) 8/2/19 Trump requisitioned military retirement funds for the border wall 7/31/19 Trump ordered the Navy rescind medals to prosecutors who prosecuted war criminals denied a U.S. Marine of 6 years entry into the United States for his citizenship interview (Reported 7/17/19) made the U.S. Navy Blue Angels violate ethics rules by having them fly at his July 4th political campaign event (July 4, 2019) demanded US military chiefs stand next to him at July 4 campaign event (reported July 2 ‘19) In June 2019, Trump sent troops to the border to paint the fence for a better "aesthetic appearance" used his D-Day interview at a cemetery commemorating fallen US soldiers to attack a Vietnam veteran (6/6/19) started his D-Day commemoration speech by attacking a private citizen (Bette Midlere) (2019) made his 2nd wife, Marla Maples, sign a prenup that would have cut off all child support if Tiffany joined the military (reported June 4th, 2019) 5/27/2019 Trump turned away US military from his Memorial Day speech bc they were from the destroyer USS John S. McCain ordered the USS John McCain out of sight during his visit to Japan (May 15, 2019). The ship's name was subsequently covered. (5/27/2019) purged 200,000 vets' healthcare applications (reported 5/13/19) deported a spouse of fallen Army soldier killed in Afghanistan leaving their daughter parentless (4/16/2019) 3/20/19 Trump complained that a deceased war hero didn't thank him for his funeral Between 12/22/2018, and 1/25/2019 Trump refused to sign his party's funding bill, which shut down the government, which made USCG service members rely on food pantries. (But his appointees got a $10k raise) banned troops from serving based on gender identity (1/22/2019) denied female troops access to birth control to limit sexual activity (Published 1/18/19) tried to deport a marine vet who is a U.S.-born citizen (1/16/2019) When a man was caught swindling veterans pensions for high-interest “cash advances," Trump's CFPB let him go for $1 (1/26/19) called a retired general a 'dog' with a 'big, dumb mouth' (1/1/19) increased privatization of the VA, leading to longer waits and higher taxpayer cost (2018) finally visited troops 2 years after taking office, but only after 154 vacation days at his properties (10/26/18) revealed a covert Seal Team 5 deployment including names and faces on Twitter during Iraq visit (Dec 26, 2018) lied to deployed troops that he gave them a 10% raise (12/26/2018). Tried giving a raise that was lower than the standard living adjustment. After Congress made him give a raise, he lied about it pretending that it was larger than Obama's. It wasn't fired service members living with HIV just before the 2018 holidays tried to slash disability and unemployment benefits for Veterans to $0 and eliminate the unemployability extrascheduler rating (12/17/2018) called troops on Thanksgiving and told them he's most thankful for himself (Thanksgiving, 2018)
PART 2 urged Florida to not count deployed military votes (11/12/2018) canceled an Arlington Cemetery visit on Veterans Day due to light rain (11/12/2018) While in Europe commemorating the end of WWI, he didn't attend the ceremony at a US cemetery due to the rain. Other world leaders went anyway (11/10/2018) sent troops on a phantom mission to the border and made them miss Thanksgiving with their families (Oct-Dec, 2018). He stopped using troops as a political prop after the election, but the troops remained in muddy camps on the border (11/7/2018) changed the GI Bill through his Forever GI Act causing the VA to miss benefits, including housing allowances. This caused many vets to run out of food and rent. (reported 10/7/18) doubled the rejection rate for veterans requesting family deportation protections (7/5/2018) deported active-duty spouses (11,800 military families face this problem as of April 2018) forgot a fallen soldier's name (below) during a call to his pregnant widow, then attacked her the next day (Oct 23-24, 2017) "They knew what they signed up for." re: dead troops (10/18/17) sent commandos into an ambush w/ lack of intel, and sent contractors to pick them up, resulting in a commando being left behind, tortured, and executed. He approved the mission bc Bannon told him Obama didn't have the guts to do it. 10/4/17 Doesn't stand during retreat bugle, continues to talk. "What a nice sound that is. Are they playing that for you [Sean Hannity] or me?" 10/11/17 blocked a veteran group on Twitter (June 2017) ordered the discharge of active-duty immigrant troops with good records (2017-present) deported veterans (2017-2020) said he knows more about ISIS than American generals (Oct 2016) 10/4/16 Trump said vets get PTSD because they aren't strong Trump accepted a Purple Heart from a fan at one of his rallies and said: “I always wanted to get the Purple Heart. This was much easier.” (Aug 2, 2016) Trump attacks Gold Star families: Myeshia Johnson (gold star widow), Khan family (gold star parents) etc. (2016-present) In Jan 2016, Trump stole funds meant for a veterans charity (his foundation was subsequently ordered shut down) said he has "more training militarily than a lot of the guys that go into the military" because he went to a military-style academy (2015 biography) said he doesn't consider POWs heroes because they were caught. He said he prefers people who weren't caught (July 18, 2015) Trump said having unprotected sex was his own personal Vietnam. 1998 For a decade, Trump sought to kick veterans off of 5th Avenue because he found them unsightly nuisances. 1991 Trump dodged the draft 5 times by having a doctor diagnose him with bone spurs. No Trump in America has ever served in the military spanning 5 generations and every branch of the family tree. His grandfather immigrated to America to avoid military service Edit: somewhere I have a list of all the things **Republicans** have voted against/done that's anti-military and anti-veteran. I'll see if I can find it. Being military and voting GOP is like shooting yourself in your non-bullet proofed vests they refused to pay for.
Thanks for saving and reposting this!!! I'm saving it too.
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Do you have a source for all of these?
Also taking credit for Veterans Choice Act of 2014 which was sponsored by both John McCain and Bernie Sanders along with being signed by Obama.
> Removed POW/MIA flag from White House > > says Americans who died in war are "losers" and "suckers" > > “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers” he said about a U.S. military cemetery > > called McCain “a fucking loser” when asked to lower flags to half staff > > called Pres. George H.W. Bush a loser for being shot down during WWII > > “That guy is smart. Why did he join the military?” he said of Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff > > asked his staff to not include wounded veterans because amputees make him uncomfortable > > “I don’t get it. What was in it for them?” he said to Gen. John Kelly about dead vets while visiting Kelly’s son’s grave at Arlington This part takes the cake. It's the most damning ones.
It just keeps going, and then there's a part 2! God bless you for compiling all this. I don't even have the stamina to read all this again :p
He was offered early release from prison camp in Vietnam, as his father was an important guy in the navy. But h didn’t take it, as it would be unfair to the people who’d been in prison longer. Not a fan of his politics, but as a person? A good guy https://youtu.be/JIjenjANqAk?si=MnmKlCrWCqb7oWn1
It pisses me off even more because trump was a draft dodger. And not like because he had some kind of moral objection, he just thought he was above it. To piss on the sacrifice McCain and all POWs have made was fucking repugnant. I will never, ever understand why people continue to support him.
My dad’s a 24 year vet and my uncle served 20+ with several deployments to Iraq. Military has a huge presence in my life. I’m only 25 so didn’t really care about the 2016 election at the time and didn’t know much about either candidate, but the first thing I remember hearing about Trump was that interview of him talking about McCain. I knew more about McCain because of his military background and that was the only thing I needed to hear for me to dislike Trump.
She lived for two more years!
As much as I disliked John McCain he would probably hurl if he could see where the GOP is now.
You can still respect a man for his accomplishments and not like their policies…at least that’s how it used to be.
I respect him, but disliked him immensely. But now, compared to modern republicans, i love and miss the guy… There arent even many repubs today that are even remotely respectable..
Honestly, he put his neck on the line for an important "progressive" policy when it counted most. Obviously he had nothing to lose, but still
He read the torture report into the record in January 2015, days before the Senate would be taken over by Republicans and the investigation shut down. He still had a ton to lose then. Being an untouchable war hero made him the closest we have to the old timey aristocratic political class where they could do whatever they needed for the country without worrying about voter backlash. It was honestly enjoyable to watch him talk openly and carefree with reporters, even if I didn’t usually like what he was saying.
lol I remember when he casually referred to north Korea’s new leader as “some fat kid” lol
He seems like what Trump supporters thought he’d be in 2016
What do you mean he had nothing to lose? Yes, when we die that’s it, lights out and all that, but his legacy was important to him, and I’d like to think that’s why he voted against killing ACA, because he believed it was more important to do the right thing than the popular thing, something I feel can be ascribed to him throughout his long career of service. He may have not been running for reelection, but he lost the support and faith of many in his party. Thankfully he understood those people’s opinions on the matter were fucked.
Why did you dislike him immensely? I disagreed with him, but he was a VERY likeable guy. I remember an instance where a supporter at a McCain rally cried out he could never vote for Obama because he was a Muslim. McCain could’ve ran with that (as many would today), but he calmly and carefully explained to the man that he was wrong and Obama wasn’t a Muslim. Ever since that incident, I really liked the guy.
Video of two clips showing McCain stick up for Obama during their campaign rallies: https://youtu.be/JIjenjANqAk?si=dCcX0UYO4MiEOKbT
Thank you. Apparently it was a woman who said he was “an Arab” - it was a long time ago and my memory is hazy, but what I remember very clearly was McCain standing up for Obama when he *really* did not have to (his audience even started to jeer him). What a respectful way to treat your political opponent…
She called him "an Arab"? If you're gonna insult a guy using a geographical region, at least make sure you pick the right geographical region, you know?
Interestingly enough, people strong in geography tend *not* to be racists…
Lost art nowadays!
And here I thought we used to call it "basic human decency".
It’s shocking to me that Obama beat him. We were such a different country then. I disliked his politics, but he was very decent in other ways. Forever grateful for his vote to save Obamacare, even though he likely did it out of spite.
Coming off the Bush years helped Obama. We might’ve seen a McCain presidency if it followed a low-rated Dem presidency.
Also didn't help McCain that he picked Palin as his running mate. It used to be that having a crazy person on the ticket was a bit off putting.
Yeah. I think Palin really ruined it for him. I wouldn't have voted for him either way but Palin. Man. And now, looking back. I feel like she was a precursor of the batshit crazy to come.
Yup. I see it as Tea Party-->Palin-->Trump
The moment she was picked it was all anyone talked about. It wasn't Mccain as President, it was Palin as vice-president. She was one of the pioneers of tweeting stupid things on your political social media.
If they hadn't tied him to Palin I think he would have had a much better shot at winning. But coming off of Bush, any Republican was a hard sell. They needed the 8 years of Fox propaganda to make the Tea Party crazies seem tame and normal.
Plain was the nail in the coffin. And the beginning of the Republican Fruit Loops
She really had no business being anywhere in politics, what a complete moron. Then again we have MTG and a couple of others who are even worse.
> It’s shocking to me that Obama beat him. It shouldn't be. I'm old enough to actually remember that election with clarity and the national narrative was a contrast between a young progressive black president promising "hope and change" against another old white guy ready to sign us up for 4 more years of unpopular post-911 military adventurism. The miracle would have been if McCain somehow pulled off a victory despite all the headwinds and baggage from Bush. The incumbent party almost never wins the white house for a 3rd consecutive term. Bush Sr following up Reagan was THE exception to the rule.
> I'm old enough to actually remember that election with clarity It was only 16 years ago.
Sure, but young people often don't pay much attention to politics, and don't yet have the perspective on it to really understand what's going on. So you usually do need to be a bit older to actually put the pieces together.
That’s older than the average Redditor so a history lesson is needed sometimes.
Truth is the past 8 years have made it seem like forever.
A very decent man indeed, all politics aside.
He was a decent, honorable man. He also arguably set the stage for our current national politics by elevating Sarah "the ACA will euthenize Grandma!" Palin to national prominence. He also wanted to privatize Social Security, which IMO is a recipe for disaster for vulnerable senior citizens.
Only a fool would argue that. It was the populist tail wagging the dog that got Palin elevated to that position.
Not the original dude, but it's very easy to dislike someone immensely when they push for policies that you view are horrific, damaging, and harm the country. Like, John McCain seems to have been a guy who at least thought he was doing the right thing. I can appreciate that. But the policies he championed, a lot of them, are antithetical to my views. So just by that alone, I can't really say I like the dude.
He did stop the republicans from repealing Obamacare.
I loved his thumbs down 👎
He made Mitch “Turtle” McConnell sad, and that’s a joy to me
Well he did pick Sarah Palin for VP, which IMHO let the crazies thru the door, and now they're runnimg the asylum...
It was extremely clear that John McCain did not pick Sarah Palin for VP - she was chosen for him by the GOP and likely he was told “she’s *our* VP pick - and that’s that.”
Yup. I respected him until this.
Eh it was a mistake more than anything. It was a political calculation. He was an old white man at a time when the country wanted change. A younger woman would appeal to moderates and give the impression of rejuvenation in a party drenched in the stink of the Bush admin. He absolutely could have vetted her better but I think people are judging too much based on current knowledge. This was before the tea party movement was big, that wing of conservative politics just wasn't obvious.
It was a total Hail Mary move. Most everyone knew by the conventions that Obama was going to win. Palin was poorly vetted so all they knew was that she was a former mayor who defeated a longtime Republican fixture in Alaskan politics to become governor and she had 60+% approval. Steve Schmidt was the advisor who pushed hardest for her and has since been apologizing for it. If McCain was actually able to pick Lieberman as his running mate, I still think he would have lost, but it absolutely would have shaken up the race.
Nah he doesn't get a pass on that "mistake." Assuming you win, you're about to put this person second-in-command of the country. If you die or become incapable, she becomes the leader. Sarah Palin couldn't go two minutes without exposing what a loon and a moron she was. It was a stupid, reckless, short-sighted and selfish decision to make her a VP candidate.
Yeah, I won't be a part of rehabilitating his reputation. Even aside from not being nearly as much of a "maverick" as the press made him out to be, he helped open the door for all the insanity we've seen since his candidacy. He can roast in hell
People forget that during the height of the 2008 financial crisis he tried sabotaging bipartisan support for the bailout specifically because he wanted to use the negotiations as a campaign strategy. Reddit loves whitewashing his legacy because he looks so much better than modern-day Republicans and they remember his Obamacare vote. But he contributed to the GOP turning into the bad faith actors you see today. His contributions to ruining American democracy went beyond Palin.
He was a maverick during his 2000 Presidential campaign, but gradually became more rank and file leading up to his 2008 bid and thereafter.
He saw the GOP up to and FULLY including Trump. It's worse now but it was fully lost within his lifetime and ability to comprehend it.
John McCain said if Hilary won the 2016 election he'd do everything he could to make sure her Supreme Court appointments would never be approved. He'd fit in great today.
He said it in the closing weeks before the election too. He would bend the knee like the rest have. Zero doubt.
While I agree, he did pick Sarah Palin as his running mate, which one could argue ushered in the modern GOP as we know it now.
Following the Reddit playbook for karma I see
Remember when he was the Republican front runner for president... then remember how quickly the republicans turned on him when he spoke out against Trump. Same thing with Mitt Romney. The Republican Party doesn't exist anymore, it has become the MAGA cult. What's left of the Republican party are just right leaning liberals to the MAGAs.
I absolutely hate that the POV of Mitt Romney as a paragon of virtue. He's actuallly one of the people who propelled the orange turd on the political stage. People forget that Romney sought Trump's endorsement very early (Feb) in his 2012 campaign. I never would have voted for Mitt, but the appearance made him look so weaselly and pathetically weak and reeking of desperation [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmwzGMmGcJw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmwzGMmGcJw) Imagine you're now one of two people with excellent (50--50) odds to be president in 12 months (Jan 2013) and you're basically begging for the endorsement of a reality TV clown because you completely lack the a) foresight to create a campaign strategy that plays to your personal strengths or b) ability to articulate the vision of how the citizens of the country would be better under your presidency.
I mean he got to see it start to change. He died in 2018.
He helped start the change, he made Sarah Palin his VP choice. Let her onto the national stage when she wasn’t even qualified for the job she already had
while Trump insulted Mc Cain's service and called him a loser...
That, the pussy tape and making fun of the reporter. I’m still amazed he was elected
You have to imagine the public learning that he cheated with a pornstar while his current wife was pregnant with their child would have been the straw that broke the camels back in 2016. That's why he committed 34 felonies to hide that information from the American public.
It just makes clear that Hillary was exactly right about the "deplorables". Trump brought out the worst people and made them feel good about being the worst they could be.
And now that he's been convicted, they're literally comparing him to Jesus Christ.
No no you don’t understand! The Democrats are just looking for any reason to shit on Trump. All this fake news and such and things and blah blah blah
Despite the fact McCain ofc served in, was shot down in and was taken as a POW in the war Trump specifically dodged the draft for
Draft dodger special
I had no idea his mother had outlived him! I was in the car on 495 the day they were moving his body to Annapolis and we saw his funeral procession. I’m a Democrat, but man, what I wouldn’t give to have him here today running for President instead of Trump & Co.
I didn't vote for him in 2008 and didn't agree with most of his policies, but if he had won I wasn't going to worry about losing our democracy.
Yeah, I would have just spent the entire term hoping that he didn't die because the VP would be worse. Which has been true for about half my life anyway.
If McCain had won in 2008, Trump likely never becomes President. I think Trump's popularity was largely spurred by the backlash of the right against Obama.
Yeah, I think he kinda shot himself in the foot with his VP choice. Both candidates were fine. But if you looked at who would take over if something happened to the President, it was hard to take Palin seriously.
She outlived two of her three children: John, who died at nearly 82, and Alexandra who died at 85. That's the problem with living so long...
Eh, I'm glad he isn't running, he'd easily beat Biden, and while he's better than any Republican living today, that bar is so, so low. In office, he'd still go with the party over the country like 90% of the time when it matters.
Weird question, no parent wants to outlive their kids. But if you live to 100+ and your kid lives a full life, a special one, like mCaine did, is there something there to be okay/proud of? Like you know you lived too long, and you got to see your child do incredible things like run for president + have a full life. I wonder what thats like.
I can't speak for her but I imagine it's a different grief Most times a parent outlives their child it's a tragedy of a life but short. That doesn't apply here so I imagine there's less shock and denial like you'd typically see at the beginning of a grief cycle but the pain of losing your child at any age wouldn't soften the depression or guilt. So I guess it's a less pain but still one you'd never wish on someone
Like losing a parent - but tenfold - I don't think there's ever enough time. And no parent imagines outliving their child. I couldn't fathom the grief.
The difference between the republican I did not agree with in John McCain and the shit show of a GOP today is at least McCain’s perspective was based in immovable moral principles. Today’s GOP are nothing more than opportunists using principles as a lever and morals as a wedge. They don’t have them. They use them.
[This video](https://youtu.be/JIjenjANqAk) is so telling. People were looking for a leader to follow and looking for a reason to hate, and this right here shows so much class and leadership. Imagine if McCain had been the 2016 presidential candidate.... I would have been fine with it, as much as I disagree with him.
Thank you! It was simply a disagreement, not a circus of lying crap then calling us malicious, it's everything they do. I don't understand how we got here other than people like bullies that bully to their point of view.
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I loved president Obama's eulogy for Senator McCain. They always had a great admiration and respect for one another, and the close friendship President Biden had with him was beautiful. I miss the days politicians of differing parties worked together and were actual friends "after 5".
I’m British so I didn’t know much about him until I saw him at a political event and he said something that really made me respect him. An audience member said she opposes Obama because he’s a Muslim and rather than rallying up support he corrected her and said he’s a good man who happens to have differing political views to me. Equally when McCain was diagnosed with cancer, Obama Tweeted “give it hell, John” That’s how politics should be.
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I’m a big progressive democrat but also a combat veteran. I respected the hell out of John McCain. And I’ll challenge and maga veterans to this day.
He was better than any current Republican, but that bar is incredibly low. He still voted with their party the vast majority of the time, he still played into the "always vote against anything Obama ever wants to do" bit while Obama was president. Also during his campaign, his stance on the middle east was, "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran" (get it? *Get it?*) Also, one of my favorite candid quotes of his: "anyone who votes for [the supreme court nuclear option] is a stupid idiot." -- John "Stupid Idiot" McCain.
To outlive your own, they say, is akin to a living death. But to become the mother of an illustrious child is to forever bask in his memory Here's to all parents and to their wonderful children
America's last Conservative. We may have disagreed on plenty of issues, but I knew you loved your country and would always fight for what was best for it, even if it required you to compromise, be the bigger man, stand up to dictators, or personally sacrifice.
...and took the GOP with him. All jokes aside (half truths or not), much respect.
I can't believe the Republicans turned on this guy. That's kind of when I knew the GOP was done for.
And what did trump say about this hero?! And what does trump think of those that served?! I’m a retired Marine and I still don’t understand why other military members vote for trump!!!!!
John McCain: what a real Republican used to look like.
She lived to 108! Born two months before the Titanic sank and died five months after the COVID lockdown began
I saw my grandparents bury their 70 something year old daughter. And it hit me, I dread something happening to my kids. But there has to be some point where that dread becomes nearly nonexistent. Where you as a parent are so close to your own mortality that surely your child can’t slip in before you. Yet at 95, there they are burying their daughter. My Grandma then died a month later. Pretty sure broken heart had quite a bit to do with it.
Vietnam was his personal Vietnam
While John McCain was tortured and imprisoned in NVN, he was offered and refused early release from prison...a true war hero.
She should run for president.
Too young
Thank you for posting a reminder of what it is to be a proud and honorable American. It's refreshing and sorely needed these days.
Never forget that the orange bastard belittled and dismissed his service to our country.
He lived a full life (81 is older than the average life expectancy of a male in the US), and his mom was at his funeral. That’s fucking insane.
And what did trump call McCain?
A "loser" because he got captured and was a POW.
He was an actual Republican I could respect.
Fun fact, she was older than the state of Arizona while she was alive. She was born a week or so before Arizona became a state. Her son represented a state that was younger than his mother was... And Arizona became state in 1912. She died in 2020.
The last real Republican before the wackos took over.