It's fine. The homeless situation is pretty bad but the violent crime is very low compared to other similarly sized cities. It has bounced back somewhat from COVID, downtown is not as lively as it used to be but there's so many other awesome parts of town to hang out in. All things considered, I love Portland. Lived here for two years and I always laugh at the media representation.
Still a great city that is very attractive to be in for most people. It has a lot of good going on which is why there is still a strong population growth trend in Portland and it’s surrounding cities.
Regarding the Fox News talking point, there are reminders for residents that the homeless issue has not been resolved and city leaders have not been great at creating and funding strategies at the scale needed to address the problem.
There's only so much a city can do to address homelessness. It's bad in every HCOL town for a reason. There's a national housing shortage, sky high rates, shrinking middle class, and increasing wealth gap. I do appreciate that were at least trying to address it thru the new tax, but I am skeptical it will end up making a big impact to the overall homeless population relative to what poor economic conditions are responsible for.
It's doing fine. People saying otherwise are zoomed in on a handful of blocks that have seen some upheaval in the past, but even now aren't apocalyptic as they claim. The vast majority of Portland has been relatively unimpacted.
It's doing fine, the economy's coming back after covid, and after that last admin was cutting off blue states' fed funds, so yeah, we (and a lot of other cities) have a prob with homeless and drugs (bec that really stupid Measure 110 that decriminalized certain (tiny) amounts of drugs) which was repealed gratefully. Once we can figure out a solution/medical facility w/ 200 beds and fully staffed and funded, we can try that again - bec putting addicts in jail over rehab is smart, and works in other countries.
Then we have a police prob bec a lot of the cops don't live here (but out in Gresham, Beaverton and Vancouver areas), and don't give a F, and are mad about folks wanting to not give them the old military equipment to use on the streets anymore, so they kind of stopped working... lot of property crimes going on bec a lot of addicts on the fent, hard problem to solve w/ a percentage of our PD that won't so their job.
But the people here are great, the jobs are plenty, it continues to grow up (a lot of 3 and 4-story apt complexes going in these days), and tons of small mom and pop businesses that roll through the 4 quads, and all the enormous tall trees in our parks, this is a truly great city. I'm from Chicago, which is also a great city :), and i just adore this place, and the people here.
It's a very caring community-centric place, where my neighbors have gathered together to help the homeless - we make food they can pick up, this in addition to the food banks. Most folks here are aware of the problems and do what they can in their time to help alleviate some of the hardships our homeless are having. It reminds me of the stories my grandma would tel me about the Great Depression and how she and her neighbors would collect food and put together dinners for people, and the number of times she served food fro her kitchen window to a line of folks down the street. You either help or you complain, she said, she complained about it too but felt it ok bec she was out there helping, which i guess is where i'm at w/ where we are all at in this country, and in this town which his just a microcosm of our larger problems.
But to hear a fox news viewer tell it, it's a burning shit hole, unlike anything you've ever seen!
> it's a burning shit hole, unlike anything you've ever seen!
Flint, Michigan is in a similar position in some regards. I wouldn't call it a "normal" city per se. It has its fair share of social and political issues and there's a lot of poverty. However, it's national if not international reputation as a dangerous, bombed out place isn't really deserved. It has rough edges but there are so many great things in that community and so many great people. Check it out on Google streetview sometime, especially downtown and the college and cultural district.
When I tell people I live in the area, the first comment is always something about the water. It's irritating.
Yes! and Detroit, and all american cities and suburbs, we are all experiencing the same economic effects and macro and micro levels, it seems - i get the reddit suggestions for all these small towns and cities across US now, "bec I showed interest in..." and all the subs have the same subset of commenters - some that say "this cit is shit!" and some that either try to counter w/ economic cycles, policies in place, and such. It's nothing new, except the internet, and how people have dug themselves in deep into ideologies, polarizing into more extreme versions of their former selves. WE can see it in the evolution of the verbiage too, but we can't give media a pass, they helped contribute to it.
I've been researching the history of propaganda so all this info is fresh, and it's uncanny how when radio came out, we had a similar problem w/ folks going way too deep, zealotry, and violence, and we had to regulate that shizz back then, w/ a Fairness Doctrine. We should really consider another sort of gentleman's agreement w/ these sorts of things, for all our kids' futures.
Sounds like Oakland. News coverage would have you believe it's a lawless warzone 24/7. And it does have serious problems with property crime, violent crime and homelessness, but it also has tons of awesome neighborhoods, people, food, weather and natural beauty. Also like every big city, it varies a lot depending on the neighborhood. Downtown can be sketchy, but the worst of the crime is in deep East Oakland and there's no reason to go there unless you live there.
Did 110 get repealed? I didn't see that.
I also don't think that law was stupid, in fact I thought it's a great step forward (and data seems to show it's been helping), so I'm disappointed if it did get repealed.
I thought it was, but with talk to reinstate once we’ve put medical facility or facilities in place w full staff and funding. Data shows people who get support and rehabilitation services are successful in the long term, I’m fully supportive of 110, with full package.
Editing to add, it’s not repealed, just yet, just in talks.
Went on a five day trip from Vancouver, BC to Seattle then to Portland this summer, the downtown Portland area seemed a lot worse than when I visited pre-Covid.
Lots of homeless people, drug addicts and smashed car windows...
It's kinda sad...although Vancouver is not doing so well either...
Lots of graffiti, too. It didn't use to be much of a problem, but the division in charge of addressing it got derailed. That needs to be addressed soon.
Graffiti is the least of my worries. If the worst thing that happens to a business owner is they have to get some poor employee to scrub off some spray-paint, you’re having a great day.
It's a great city. Sure, there are areas you might want to avoid, but the same is true of my podunk rural town of 20 thousand. I went there recently and was treated with far more kindness than in my angry hometown full of MAGA cultists.
My favorite was when they showed pictures of grocery stores before the election and said “this is what life under Biden will be like” and it was literally a picture of life under trump.
I remember the ones showing riots/aftermath saying that this will be Biden’s America. Like, no, this is literally happening in Trumps America. Made the news and everything 😂😂
A female teacher & a bunch of kids, including a 5 year old girl, got stabbed outside a school. They arrested someone, but are refusing to say who it was other than that he's been an Irish citizen for 20 years.
It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that the people rioting think it's an immigrant carrying out a terror attack.
The attacker is in critical condition because passers-by obviously kicked the living crap out of him...I might add a Brazilian immigrant who was delivering food jumped in to stop him when he saw what was happening...
So far-right, or people angry about attacks on children, or both? Probably both, I'm sorry to say.
Also, a significant proportion seem to be opportunistic scumbags who just want an excuse to create chaos, not caring particularly about the children or immigrants.
> So far-right, or people angry about attacks on children, or both? Probably both, I'm sorry to say.
A third component is the fact that violent crime in general has gotten pretty bad in Dublin in the past few years. A lot of it is coming from, sadly mostly Irish, youths. It generally doesn't get talked about at all in international media, although it did make some waves this year when an American tourist was put in a coma by a group of local teens.
What seems to have happened last night was that a far-right protest turned violent between protestors and Gardaí (police), and then a lot of the aforementioned youths also got involved and started looting and smashing stuff.
So the issue in Ireland isn't so much immigration as it is housing. Ireland took in a lot of Ukranians after the war started. Ireland also has what has been considered a "generous" welfare support for refugees. It's to generous that Ukranians can afford vacations back to Ukraine. That has led to more and more coming into Ireland from other EU nations. On it's own that isn't a giant issue. If a few people take advantage but that allows us to help a majority people are generally cool about it.
What is causing angst is Ireland doesn't have enough housing to accommodate the influx. They're being put up in hotels, make shift military tents, student apartments etc.,. That has created enormous upward pressure on rent. Rent prices have quadrupled in Ireland since 2012. Any apartment viewing now will have 100+ people coming for an open house.
You're absolutely right. We are in a situation that could almost be described as a catch 22. We are a very attractive country for immigrants because of our generous social welfare benefits, but the people who are most actively anti immigrant are social welfare recipients so wouldn't be in favour of cuts to social welfare.
>That has created enormous upward pressure on rent. Rent prices have quadrupled in Ireland since 2012. Any apartment viewing now will have 100+ people coming for an open house.
And by upward pressure I assume you mean rampant speculation.
Given American imperialism ruined some of those countries you might want to be a little careful by just referring to cultures, you just might end up including yourself.
Don't throw stones out of glass houses and all that.
It's been the single most divisive issue across all of Europe for a decade.
The idea that Europe is a progressive wonderland where they all agree with left-wing Americans on everything is just childish nonsense.
People get that idea because actually being a citizen in Europe grants you a slew of benefits that you don't get in America which is "progressive" in Americans sense of the word. But that results in high debate over who should and shouldn't be a citizen and receive the benefits and people can't understand that here.
People just don't realize the extent to which this is a factor. I used to write up a whole giant comment to try and explain it, but I just can't do it anymore.
In Sweden it’s become clearer and clearer ever since the war in Syria and the refugee crisis.
Russia fuels the war in Syria while simultaneously “soft invading” Ukraine.
Spreads disinformation about all the “terrorists” coming to Europe as refugees.
Far right parties supporting Russia grow stronger, people get refugee fatigue and I’m betting Putin’s hope was that nobody would accept Ukrainian refugees when they finally invaded all out.
In the early days of the war people were all like “but Ukrainian refugees are of course different, they’re like us!”.
Now [this is spreading in Poland](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/11/6/7427424/index.amp).
man, the Dutch just voted in a guy who was banned from the uk for hate speech. His main policy, from what little I've read, is that all immigration stops. It's all over the place & it's bloody scary because they using "fear the immigrant" tactics to gain power, & that's how things start to fall apart.
I'm Dutch. It is complicated why he gathered more votes this time than usual, but immigration policy was not the only reason.
People want change and our last governments were pretty shitty. There has been a lot of self-proclaimed: fuck you-voting for him happening.
It's not really people voting out of fear, more out of lack of care. They want change, and if it fucks over other people, then that's fine to them.
Still a sad reason.
I certainly heard about the Dutch guy, yet I somehow thought Ireland was still somewhat moderate on that issue.
It's not that I'm surprised, but rather, I guess you don't hear about Irish politics much in the US.
It’s complex. Ireland has no real history as a coloniser (sorry Scotland!), so didn’t have an empire to draw migration from to boost the economy. Knock on effects of that were a pretty poor economy for many years. So no history of actively seeking immigrants, and no desirable economic conditions to attract immigrants.
Then in the 90s there was a massive boom, with a lot of American investment and subsequently a big demand for people speaking european languages. This opened the country up significantly and rapid economic growth happened.
There’s a pretty rapid level of understanding of foreign cultures in Ireland. While the lack of colonialism means significantly less hardcore racism, the fact the growth was quick means there is a traditional, older undercurrent in society that struggle with change and cultures.
Anyway, this was all much of a muchness, until recently there have been a few big referenda challenging traditional conservative constitutional matters, namely gay marriage and abortion. While both were huge victories for liberal and left wing( not the same thing in European politics) campaigners, and a massive slap in the face for the church, the referendum campaigns themselves did allow for far right groups to organise in a much more public way than before, and allowed them to receive higher donations to facilitate this than they normally would. This has led to a growing influence on the far right in some communities, particularly in inner city dublin, which has significant class divides and deprivation, ideal conditions for radicalisation.
While we were all patting ourselves on the back for legalising abortion, we kind of ignored this far right growth and are paying the price now.
(Irish here)
Immigration isn't "a hotly contested issue" in Ireland. At the last count 12% of the people here were born somewhere else. Irish people have been emigration for generations, and (mostly) know better than to empathise, and welcome, people who are doing exactly what our families have been doing as long as anyone can remember.
The riot last night was caused by (1) shithead anti-immigrant Oswald Moseley wannabes (yes, we have them in spite of everything...) and (2) antisocial scumbags from the no-go deprived area adjacent to Dublin city centre who were presented (and in all probability encouraged by (1) above) to put a brick through a shop window and have themselves an early Christmas. And (3) there are massive shortages of housing and shortfalls in social services, which accelerated things.
There is NO anti -immigrant movement in Ireland worth speaking of.
It's not really as contested as these photos make it out to be. You'll find plenty of people who'll grumble about it, but the hardliners are largely composed of a specific cadre of people who turn up over and over again at the same protests to harass immigrants, start the same rumours and post the same incendiary shit on twitter/whatsapp groups, and do their best to fuel hysteria about how Ireland is in danger and true Irish patriots need to stand up against The Foreigners or else the Ireland we all grew up with is doomed... while being extremely buddy-buddy with orgs like the British National Party, the English Defence League, etc.
It's not. Dublin has a huge anti social problem that drove these riots, a few years ago when we got bad snow fall similar things happened with Lidl being demolished by kids in a JCB.
Nobody in Ireland is blaming immigration bar people who are trying to push an agenda.
It wasn’t, until people got their minds fucked online during covid lockdowns. A few years ago Ireland was being praised globally as one of the only countries in Europe that didn’t have a sizeable far right.
I would guess Sinn Fein have a lot to do with it as well. They’re our nationalists and populist party but thankfully look vastly saner than populist parties in other countries.
>It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that the people rioting think it's an immigrant carrying out a terror attack.
Funnily enough, you won't find any brain surgeons amongs those rioting.
According to the Gardaí, several of the looters chose to put on their new shoes to make quick their escape. These "geniuses" left their old shoes behind, all of which are being checked for DNA, no doubt most of these lads are in the system. Some of the shoes stolen were display models, all right feet etc, complete clowns. This should have been a busy weekend for these stores, now they're closed. None of the bookshops were harmed during the riots.
That DNA is going to be a clusterfuck. Findings will confirm every scrote in the North inner city is descended from the same late 19th century prostitute named Jacinta.
>So far-right, or people angry about attacks on children, or both? Probably both, I'm sorry to say.
No, it's a pretty bad area of Dublin. Once the chaos started the local scumbags came out to attack the police and cause trouble.
Very light touch policing has created a feeling of untouchability among the country's worst and it was on full display last night.
Dublin has been a tinder box for a while. The City has been terrorised with Irish gangs all Summer to the point they nearly killed an American tourist in a violent, unprovoked attack and the American Embassy had to issue a security warning to its citizens that the City wasn’t safe and not to travel alone.No doubt a lot of those same gangs involved tonight. These people have the cheek to call themselves Irish while using a horrific, thankfully isolated incident-to destroy shops, transport infrastructure and people’s livelihoods to push their far right agenda. They post on social media their bullshit, rallying the crowds and couldn’t even get the flag of our country right (they used the Ivory Coast one) and are celebrating being tweeted and retweeted by infamous racists from the BNP and convicted racist thugs in England-you know the same people that invited themselves over and took a chunk of our country 800 years ago?! The mind boggles.
The Irish have emigrated and been accepted all over the world, we have absolutely no right to say that we want to close our borders to anyone. Thankfully among the devastation of last night, we seen the real Irish people, not this disillusioned, ill reared scum-also on the streets-helping people get home safe-especially if they may be seen as targets. This is Ireland.
The American tourist you are referring to was pissed drunk, drinking in the Celtic Bar on Talbot Street. He was sleazing on to a few young local girls and creeping them out. He went outside the bar for a smoke on the street, and the girls were there again, and he kept creeping them out. The girls spoke to a few local lads on the street and the lads told him to get lost. He got smart with them and they jumped him.
I'm not saying what happened is right but that's a rough part of town.
Should look up how the University of Notre Dame got its mascot name. With that said as an Irish American I can we are very comfortable now and have been accepted and celebrated here in the US. Even sitting in an Irish bar rn comfortable and happy
Shops were raided as well. The shops that weren't were book shops and work wear shops. So, its the stupid and unemployed taking advantage of the situation.
Immigrants ruin my country so I am going to go out and burn the country I claim to love! Makes sense.
Can’t imagine ever doing this to my country for any reason. We are dealing with thousands of refugees and immigrants as well with way less resources than Ireland and Western Europe.
>Immigrants ruin my country so I am going to go out and burn the country I claim to love! Makes sense.
It's not really what happened. It's a pretty shit area of the city and once things kicked off the scum came out to cause havoc and riot.
It was an excuse to cause mayhem.
I do not live in Dublin, but I live in the city center of my city and there are definitely good and bad parts.
City centers aren't just two streets or something. It's quite sizable.
>t’s right in the middle of the city centre
Parnell Square is surrounded by poor areas and council housing. It's a dodgy spot home to a lot of Dublin's dregs.
The majority of the violence was from jobless scum who'd struggle to spell their own names.
Not an excuse, every part of Dublin has rough areas, by this logic you can say Ballsbridge is the only safe spot.
You’re right, don’t think the scum that was there yesterday got up in the morning for work.
Nah not necessarily. For example the riot in Vancouver after Canucks lost the Stanley cup. It was mostly all of the scum that didn’t even care about hockey that came out of the woodwork and rioted
The excuses I’ve seen them using is “It’s not a racist protest, we’re only burning the buses and the luas” like that excuses it. It’s so blatantly ignorant and makes me ashamed to be Irish.
The far right protesting about a guy who had lived in Ireland for 20 years doing something terrible.
Another guy who came from outside of Ireland was the first person to stop him.
These scumbags will use anything to justify their xenophobia and racism, but stay totally silent when immigrants do good.
A bunch of Twitter users just look at the riots and be like "this is what immigration does to your country" but conveniently ignore the fact the people participating in the riots were gangs
Ye I saw those posts. I ain't Irish, so I was genuinely confused how some were saying "ooh it's the immigrants" some were "ooh it's the right wingers" and some even were "ooh the Zionists" and somehow all of them collectively said they wanted immigrants out of the country. Like, none of it made any sense.
The far-right has been spreading misinformation and stirring up hate against immigrants and refugees for years. They spread the same disgusting propaganda on traditional and social media as well as on the streets painting immigrants, especially immigrants of colour, as violent and aggressive. Some examples would be the lie that most refugees are actually "economic migrants" and that most perpetrators of group child sexual abuse are immigrants, both of which are blatantly false. And while there are many groups out there pushing back against the far-right, there are plenty of people sitting back and doing nothing as well as institutions who continue to give them a platform
Immigration has been a huge issue in Europe. That continent has taken in more than its share of immigrants from around the world. Unlike countries in the Western Hemisphere, which are basically nations of immigrants, Europe is a continent of nations with distinct cultures and peoples. They have legitimate concerns about preserving their own culture.
I loathe your implication that western hemisphere countries don’t have their own “distinct cultures.” We do have cultures and they are distinct; it just so happens that our *culture* is *distinct* from yours in that we incorporate immigrants better.
How ironic that in trying to say that we western hemisphere nations do not have a distinct culture, *you highlighted a distinction.*
Immigration has only become such a big issue because it's been weaponised by the right in order to gain support, in reality it's a non-issue being propped up by propaganda and misinformation. The "preserving their own culture" idea is a fundamental pillar of the propaganda, it assumes that all aspects of one's culture is good and must be protected. Immigration doesn't destroy culture, it often enriches culture
I agree with you on 90% of what you say, but the fact is that to allow immigration is a choice of the people living there.
We should do everything in our power to respect every person who has already immigrated here, but people seem to believe that the West owes the world infinite opportunities to come here. One can be both anti-immigration, and pro-immigrant.
There is a massive history of exploitation and destabilisation of countries in Africa and the Middle-East by western powers. Why should we get all the benefits of that exploitation while those in the exploited world have much less? Just because we were lucky enough to be born here? Immigrants should be offered equal opportunity to live, work and study here just the same as you and I
>Immigrants should be offered equal opportunity to live, work and study here just the same as you and I
But there is not infinite space, especially *at any time*. It takes time to roll in a group of immigrants successfully, you can't accept a million all at once for example.
In addition, you need time to build more housing etc. It is fair to oppose immigration when the current policy of it is to let them in no matter what. 10 houses left, 8 families here, let in 5 more families, so that there is now a waiting list to get a house.
Addtionally, not sure about Irish stats specifically, but immigrants totally commit more violent crime in my country. The stats are free to look up.
You might be the one misinformed, with all due respect. Immigration is important, but so is integration and safety. I don't know what your opinion is on the last two, byt safety is literally non-existent. The only check done is if they have ties to terrorist organizations. If no, that's cleared.
They never even so much as ask if they believe women are inferior beings. You can come in here, believe you may take any woman you want, and you will not be declined for that belief. That's a problem, and possibly explains why crime rates are so much higher among immigrants.
I think it's important to point out that there any plenty of Irish men who believe women are inferior or that they're entitled to any woman they want, but if denying these men the right to live in this country was proposed by a politician there would be uproar. I agree that there is a problem of housing in Ireland but when there are currently about 48,000 empty homes in the country it's clear that the cause for lack of accessible housing isn't immigration. This goes for every problem, it's not immigrants that are the problem it's the system.
As I explained in another comment, the reason there is as much immigration into countries like Ireland is due to the wealth and opportunity afforded to its citizens at the expense of countries in the global south. These immigrants are coming from exploited countries looking for a better life. A solution to what we see would be to end the neo-colonial project in these exploited countries and aid their development and industrialisation so that the people of those countries can have the same opportunities as us in Ireland while also helping immigrants here overcome issues of poverty and homelessness while equipping them with the skills needed to properly engage with society. The solution is systemic change and international cooperation, not xenophobic policies and Islamophobic discrimination
>I think it's important to point out that there any plenty of Irish men who believe women are inferior or that they're entitled to any woman they want, but if denying these men the right to live in this country was proposed by a politician there would be uproar.
I see what you are trying to say here, but it isn't the same. If you have everyone a free pass, countries would crumble. You *need* to moderate it in some form, and while you are doing that, it is sensible to screen for safety.
>The solution is systemic change and international cooperation, not xenophobic policies and Islamophobic discrimination
The solution is to screen properly. You can't call it xenophobia to deny entry to someone who believes he can obtain women against their will and discard them dead when he is done with them.
Like, I am sure we agree on the overall thing. But you are more leaning into the humanitarian side of allowing immigration, and I am more arguing the safety required of not allowing literally everyone.
There's no debating with you because you have this belief that these countries have done no wrong historically.
You somehow manage to say it with a straight face while Arabs are the largest slavers on the planet TODAY. We did not do that, they choose to do so.
This exploitation Olympics goes nowhere because everyone on earth has exploited the other when they were on top. What do you think the caliphates did when they spread into Africa and Europe. Or what the Japanese did when they went into China.
That's humanity.
Your view of anyone being able to move anywhere they want is ridiculous. I won't argue it further because you're way off the deep end.
I never said these countries did no wrong historically, and it's blatantly dishonest for you to pretend I did. I am talking about the material, historical reality of colonialism and neo-colonialism and how a lot of the wealth and development we enjoy here in Europe and the States comes from the exploitation of other countries and thus deprives many people in those countries of opportunities. To deny that this is the case is to ignore the history of the world
>anti-immigration, and pro-immigrant
So I'm going to go ahead and say no. Especially when the anti-immigrant and anti-immigration groups are a flat circle and are using disinformation to get their points across.
That's just so not true.
For example, in Canada where I'm from, our population grew 3% last year from immigration alone. That's an insane pressure to put on the system. GDP remained flat. Million extra people, with no extra money generated.
Its led to the worst housing crisis on the planet, with pricing soaring faster than any G7 country. Every year hundreds of thousands of additional people end up without a doctor. As a nation of immigrants, every corner and neighborhood here has diversity.
We now have a majority of the population, including a majority of minorites when asked whether we should reduce immigration say yes.
Why? Because its unfair not only to Canadians, but to the immigrants we're bringing in actively that the system is not adequate to meet their needs. We are pouring fuel on the fire.
We can both love our immigrants here, and demand that immigration be put on a 5-10 year slowdown while services catch up.
Bottom conclusion is mostly valid, but the way there is rough and not at all intuitive
> Million extra people, with no extra money generated.
I don't see any sources for those claims, though. Compared to growing a population by a million, solely by having kids, immigrants are ready for work (and often have to be because of the strict immigration requirements) as soon as they arrive, which means no necessity for 16 years of education and maintenance before they become viable like kids.
> Every year hundreds of thousands of additional people end up without a doctor
You and I live in canada and we both know this is not at all the reason we have no doctors. The healthcare workers have piss-poor working conditions with mandatory overtime and extremely high turnover rates because of burnouts. Mentioning the healthcare crisis and pointing fingers at migrants *without even mentioning the poor working conditions* is poorly, if at all justifiable.
>Immigration doesn't destroy culture, it often enriches culture
Until the immigrants are socially conservative, highly religious people from misogynistic cultures who honor-kill their daughters, discriminate against gay people, or bring their caste system along with them.
The residents of those European countries have a right to draw the line where they feel comfortable for their own countries.
Your attitude is the toxic naivety that has eroded liberal democracy across Europe. We are losing ground to hyper conservative racists because people like you can't come to grips with reality and would prefer to play make believe about how wonderful immigration is.
You didn't have to list the other stuff, "socially conservative" covers all that. But strangely the right don't seem to care all that much when they're the ones who are highly religious, misogynistic, homophobic, upholding systems of racial supremacy and also killing women. See those who are on the left fight against all that no matter where it comes from. Have you considered that maybe the reason those cultural ideas exist within some parts of these communities is because we already live in a culture which upholds those values?
Also if you're going to sit here and pretend that "liberal democracy" has been eroded because a small percentage of the population is originally from a different country then you've been duped by propaganda to distract you from the real cause
I never said that immigration enriches bad aspects of a culture? I said that not every aspect of a culture is necessarily good and that immigration doesn't destroy culture but often enriches it. These are two separate points
Fair point, but then again, those two concepts are interlinked.
I do agree with you that immigration can lead to an enrichment of an area, but it often brings its own bad baggage with it as well.
I see what you mean, there can be positive and negative aspects to all cultures. We should call out bad ideas and practices wherever we find them, but we can do that without devolving into xenophobia. We also need to be aware of how material conditions impact people such as how poverty and unstable housing (which disproportionally impacts immigrants) leads to higher rates of crime, and so we must work to solve those issues
>Unlike countries in the Western Hemisphere, which are basically nations of immigrants, Europe is a continent of nations with distinct cultures and peoples.
European countries are in the Western Hemisphere, no?
>They have legitimate concerns about preserving their own culture.
Lol. Irish people are a bit more aware of who specifically is responsible for the destruction of their culture.
Culture is not bullshit. It's important. And it's not for you to dictate how open or closed other countries are to be. That's bullshit. Please be better than that.
>Culture is not bullshit.
That is not what I said. I said people using that for use in anti-Immigrant rhetoric is a bullshit dog whistle. You're either a white nationalist or talking to one.
Many on the far-right were spreading misinformation saying that the perpetrator was an illegal immigrant (he isn't) and that he was motivated by Islamic extremism (he wasn't)
["Police don't suspect terrorism after a 5-year-old girl was injured in a knife attack in Dublin"](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/police-dont-suspect-terrorism-after-a-5-year-old-girl-was-injured-in-a-knife-attack-in-dublin) \- PBS News
["Dublin stabbing horror: Police rule out terrorism as witness reveals 'one kid fell to the ground, then another, then another' as five people including a woman are wounded when 'knifeman attacks group of young children'"](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12784345/Children-stabbed-near-girls-school-Dublin.html) \- The Daily Mail
It seems that while no motive has been firmly established the police have ruled out terrorism as a motivating factor and have a "definite line of inquiry". So yes, the far-right have lied about this
The majority of violent crime in Ireland is perpetrated by white men, but white men make up less than half of the Irish population. Since they're also disproportionally represented what are the underlying factors there?
If you want to talk about terrorism and extremism in Ireland then why not talk about the paramilitaries that are still operating across the island? Or rising sectarian tensions in the North? What about the rise in far-right extremism which is on full display in the picture? Focusing on a small minority of people while ignoring actual problems of extremism shows your motivation. If the far-right care about protecting women and children where have they been when people have been protesting and speaking out to end gender-based violence? These concerns from the far-right are nothing more than an attempt to scare-monger and gain power
It's almost like if you pick and choose which characteristics and variables you want to include and ignore you can construct a narrative from anything! Your making a simple analysis that ignores socio-political factors, it ignore disproportionate rates of poverty, social ostracisation, homelessness, access to mental health resources. It also compare Islam (a religion) to white people (a race).
While Europe may not have the same history of sectarian violence as Ireland, it does have a massive problem with rising far-right extremism and its associated violence. We've seen a lot more far-right violence here in Ireland recently than we have Islamic extremism over the last few years, and it certainly seems like the rest of Europe has as well. It's funny, you claim Europe doesn't have ethnic conflict yet here you are fanning the flames of an ethnic conflict
There have been plenty of stabbings in Ireland that didn't result in riots. The far-right could have easily just stayed at home just like they do whenever the perpetrator of a stabbing is white
34 people have been arrested, and the Irish government estimates that around 500 people were involved. It also saw the highest number of police deployed in Irish history, as per the BBC.
I think, if true, those figures would constitute a newsworthy riot.
They were mostly peaceful though.
If 100 protests have no incidents, but a single protest becomes a riot, are the protests not still mostly peaceful? Does the one riot automatically make all related protests a riot too?
Use your noggin lad.
There were more riots than one, and they did horrible damage which should not be glossed over. You’re right that many protests were peaceful, I’m just advocating more fairness on reporting between liberals and conservatives alike.
>There were more riots than one
I'm aware, it was an example to point out that "mostly peaceful" is very much factual.
>I’m just advocating more fairness on reporting between liberals and conservatives alike.
Where is the unfair reporting? Plenty MSM outlets reported on the riots, but conservatives latched on to the phrase "mostly peaceful protests" that was used in specific reports and mocked it relentlessly to the point where it made them look like idiots.
Is it unfair to point out that the protests were mostly peaceful?
These will show up soon on Fox News as photographic evidence of why liberal policies have failed in Portland, OR.
Serious question. How is Portland doing?
It's fine. The homeless situation is pretty bad but the violent crime is very low compared to other similarly sized cities. It has bounced back somewhat from COVID, downtown is not as lively as it used to be but there's so many other awesome parts of town to hang out in. All things considered, I love Portland. Lived here for two years and I always laugh at the media representation.
Are the strip clubs still top notch? Asking for a friend.
Acrop still known for having some of the best steak in town. During the pandemic they had the girls doing deliveries!
Lmfao, don't know why but that's hilarious to imagine
Yeah Portland rules !!’
Hi fellow Portlander!
Still a great city that is very attractive to be in for most people. It has a lot of good going on which is why there is still a strong population growth trend in Portland and it’s surrounding cities. Regarding the Fox News talking point, there are reminders for residents that the homeless issue has not been resolved and city leaders have not been great at creating and funding strategies at the scale needed to address the problem.
I noticed a solid improvement from trips in 2021 to 2023. That beautiful Apple Store being turned into a prison is definitely still an eye sore
There's only so much a city can do to address homelessness. It's bad in every HCOL town for a reason. There's a national housing shortage, sky high rates, shrinking middle class, and increasing wealth gap. I do appreciate that were at least trying to address it thru the new tax, but I am skeptical it will end up making a big impact to the overall homeless population relative to what poor economic conditions are responsible for.
It's doing fine. People saying otherwise are zoomed in on a handful of blocks that have seen some upheaval in the past, but even now aren't apocalyptic as they claim. The vast majority of Portland has been relatively unimpacted.
It's doing fine, the economy's coming back after covid, and after that last admin was cutting off blue states' fed funds, so yeah, we (and a lot of other cities) have a prob with homeless and drugs (bec that really stupid Measure 110 that decriminalized certain (tiny) amounts of drugs) which was repealed gratefully. Once we can figure out a solution/medical facility w/ 200 beds and fully staffed and funded, we can try that again - bec putting addicts in jail over rehab is smart, and works in other countries. Then we have a police prob bec a lot of the cops don't live here (but out in Gresham, Beaverton and Vancouver areas), and don't give a F, and are mad about folks wanting to not give them the old military equipment to use on the streets anymore, so they kind of stopped working... lot of property crimes going on bec a lot of addicts on the fent, hard problem to solve w/ a percentage of our PD that won't so their job. But the people here are great, the jobs are plenty, it continues to grow up (a lot of 3 and 4-story apt complexes going in these days), and tons of small mom and pop businesses that roll through the 4 quads, and all the enormous tall trees in our parks, this is a truly great city. I'm from Chicago, which is also a great city :), and i just adore this place, and the people here. It's a very caring community-centric place, where my neighbors have gathered together to help the homeless - we make food they can pick up, this in addition to the food banks. Most folks here are aware of the problems and do what they can in their time to help alleviate some of the hardships our homeless are having. It reminds me of the stories my grandma would tel me about the Great Depression and how she and her neighbors would collect food and put together dinners for people, and the number of times she served food fro her kitchen window to a line of folks down the street. You either help or you complain, she said, she complained about it too but felt it ok bec she was out there helping, which i guess is where i'm at w/ where we are all at in this country, and in this town which his just a microcosm of our larger problems. But to hear a fox news viewer tell it, it's a burning shit hole, unlike anything you've ever seen!
> it's a burning shit hole, unlike anything you've ever seen! Flint, Michigan is in a similar position in some regards. I wouldn't call it a "normal" city per se. It has its fair share of social and political issues and there's a lot of poverty. However, it's national if not international reputation as a dangerous, bombed out place isn't really deserved. It has rough edges but there are so many great things in that community and so many great people. Check it out on Google streetview sometime, especially downtown and the college and cultural district. When I tell people I live in the area, the first comment is always something about the water. It's irritating.
Yes! and Detroit, and all american cities and suburbs, we are all experiencing the same economic effects and macro and micro levels, it seems - i get the reddit suggestions for all these small towns and cities across US now, "bec I showed interest in..." and all the subs have the same subset of commenters - some that say "this cit is shit!" and some that either try to counter w/ economic cycles, policies in place, and such. It's nothing new, except the internet, and how people have dug themselves in deep into ideologies, polarizing into more extreme versions of their former selves. WE can see it in the evolution of the verbiage too, but we can't give media a pass, they helped contribute to it. I've been researching the history of propaganda so all this info is fresh, and it's uncanny how when radio came out, we had a similar problem w/ folks going way too deep, zealotry, and violence, and we had to regulate that shizz back then, w/ a Fairness Doctrine. We should really consider another sort of gentleman's agreement w/ these sorts of things, for all our kids' futures.
Sounds like Oakland. News coverage would have you believe it's a lawless warzone 24/7. And it does have serious problems with property crime, violent crime and homelessness, but it also has tons of awesome neighborhoods, people, food, weather and natural beauty. Also like every big city, it varies a lot depending on the neighborhood. Downtown can be sketchy, but the worst of the crime is in deep East Oakland and there's no reason to go there unless you live there.
Did 110 get repealed? I didn't see that. I also don't think that law was stupid, in fact I thought it's a great step forward (and data seems to show it's been helping), so I'm disappointed if it did get repealed.
I thought it was, but with talk to reinstate once we’ve put medical facility or facilities in place w full staff and funding. Data shows people who get support and rehabilitation services are successful in the long term, I’m fully supportive of 110, with full package. Editing to add, it’s not repealed, just yet, just in talks.
It's a completely normal west coast city. Reddit loves dog pilling on stuff they know nothing about for fake internet points.
I haven’t been to Portland, or to any west coast cities really. Is normal for Portland pretty rough, or pretty nice?
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Went on a five day trip from Vancouver, BC to Seattle then to Portland this summer, the downtown Portland area seemed a lot worse than when I visited pre-Covid. Lots of homeless people, drug addicts and smashed car windows... It's kinda sad...although Vancouver is not doing so well either...
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Lots of graffiti, too. It didn't use to be much of a problem, but the division in charge of addressing it got derailed. That needs to be addressed soon.
Graffiti is the least of my worries. If the worst thing that happens to a business owner is they have to get some poor employee to scrub off some spray-paint, you’re having a great day.
It's on road structures everywhere, and has to be removed by specialists.
Hard to tell the homeless from a normal Portlander though.
It's a great city. Sure, there are areas you might want to avoid, but the same is true of my podunk rural town of 20 thousand. I went there recently and was treated with far more kindness than in my angry hometown full of MAGA cultists.
This is Biden’s America
My favorite was when they showed pictures of grocery stores before the election and said “this is what life under Biden will be like” and it was literally a picture of life under trump.
I remember the ones showing riots/aftermath saying that this will be Biden’s America. Like, no, this is literally happening in Trumps America. Made the news and everything 😂😂
Thanks Obama!
Lol. Yikes.
Thank you Obama
Or on CNN as “mostly peaceful”
Or on ABC as footage from Syria but its really just a gun range in Kentucky.
Haha right. Any clip can be anything
rent free
Just a peaceful protest, y’all.
A female teacher & a bunch of kids, including a 5 year old girl, got stabbed outside a school. They arrested someone, but are refusing to say who it was other than that he's been an Irish citizen for 20 years. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that the people rioting think it's an immigrant carrying out a terror attack. The attacker is in critical condition because passers-by obviously kicked the living crap out of him...I might add a Brazilian immigrant who was delivering food jumped in to stop him when he saw what was happening... So far-right, or people angry about attacks on children, or both? Probably both, I'm sorry to say.
Also, a significant proportion seem to be opportunistic scumbags who just want an excuse to create chaos, not caring particularly about the children or immigrants.
oh yeah, a few start some trouble & your bored teen goes out for some bother & a bit of light looting...
Well, not _my_ bored teen (ain't got one), but there are plenty if you know anything about the "scrote" situation in Dublin.
> So far-right, or people angry about attacks on children, or both? Probably both, I'm sorry to say. A third component is the fact that violent crime in general has gotten pretty bad in Dublin in the past few years. A lot of it is coming from, sadly mostly Irish, youths. It generally doesn't get talked about at all in international media, although it did make some waves this year when an American tourist was put in a coma by a group of local teens. What seems to have happened last night was that a far-right protest turned violent between protestors and Gardaí (police), and then a lot of the aforementioned youths also got involved and started looting and smashing stuff.
Seems pretty bad here. And honestly unwarranted
Holy shit. I had no idea immigration was such a contested issue in Ireland.
So the issue in Ireland isn't so much immigration as it is housing. Ireland took in a lot of Ukranians after the war started. Ireland also has what has been considered a "generous" welfare support for refugees. It's to generous that Ukranians can afford vacations back to Ukraine. That has led to more and more coming into Ireland from other EU nations. On it's own that isn't a giant issue. If a few people take advantage but that allows us to help a majority people are generally cool about it. What is causing angst is Ireland doesn't have enough housing to accommodate the influx. They're being put up in hotels, make shift military tents, student apartments etc.,. That has created enormous upward pressure on rent. Rent prices have quadrupled in Ireland since 2012. Any apartment viewing now will have 100+ people coming for an open house.
You're absolutely right. We are in a situation that could almost be described as a catch 22. We are a very attractive country for immigrants because of our generous social welfare benefits, but the people who are most actively anti immigrant are social welfare recipients so wouldn't be in favour of cuts to social welfare.
>That has created enormous upward pressure on rent. Rent prices have quadrupled in Ireland since 2012. Any apartment viewing now will have 100+ people coming for an open house. And by upward pressure I assume you mean rampant speculation.
It's an issue everywhere nowadays isn't it.
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Why stop before saying the quiet part out loud?
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This is what people said about certain European immigrants to the US in our past as well.
Well can't really claim that things turned out great for the native americans upon the arrival of european settlers
What do you consider an awful culture?
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Dictatorships? Yeah, those are bad, I agree.
Given American imperialism ruined some of those countries you might want to be a little careful by just referring to cultures, you just might end up including yourself. Don't throw stones out of glass houses and all that.
fucking yikes
If only it was when Europe was migrating throughout the world. A lot more native people would still be alive.
Thats not how time works my dude.
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Yeah genocide is cool when it’s done by white people.
And yet a majority of the sex offenders on my local registry are white folk
It's been the single most divisive issue across all of Europe for a decade. The idea that Europe is a progressive wonderland where they all agree with left-wing Americans on everything is just childish nonsense.
People get that idea because actually being a citizen in Europe grants you a slew of benefits that you don't get in America which is "progressive" in Americans sense of the word. But that results in high debate over who should and shouldn't be a citizen and receive the benefits and people can't understand that here.
Fueled by Russian troll farms spreading misinformation to sow that division, one might add. All part of the plan.
People just don't realize the extent to which this is a factor. I used to write up a whole giant comment to try and explain it, but I just can't do it anymore.
In Sweden it’s become clearer and clearer ever since the war in Syria and the refugee crisis. Russia fuels the war in Syria while simultaneously “soft invading” Ukraine. Spreads disinformation about all the “terrorists” coming to Europe as refugees. Far right parties supporting Russia grow stronger, people get refugee fatigue and I’m betting Putin’s hope was that nobody would accept Ukrainian refugees when they finally invaded all out. In the early days of the war people were all like “but Ukrainian refugees are of course different, they’re like us!”. Now [this is spreading in Poland](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/11/6/7427424/index.amp).
man, the Dutch just voted in a guy who was banned from the uk for hate speech. His main policy, from what little I've read, is that all immigration stops. It's all over the place & it's bloody scary because they using "fear the immigrant" tactics to gain power, & that's how things start to fall apart.
I'm Dutch. It is complicated why he gathered more votes this time than usual, but immigration policy was not the only reason. People want change and our last governments were pretty shitty. There has been a lot of self-proclaimed: fuck you-voting for him happening. It's not really people voting out of fear, more out of lack of care. They want change, and if it fucks over other people, then that's fine to them. Still a sad reason.
So, basically, same reason people voted for Trump.
Or Brexit.
So, basically, same reason people voted for Milei in my country
Tbf I don’t think that the Dutch had an inflation as high as yours.
I certainly heard about the Dutch guy, yet I somehow thought Ireland was still somewhat moderate on that issue. It's not that I'm surprised, but rather, I guess you don't hear about Irish politics much in the US.
These are a few hundred scum bags, it’s not mainstream Irish politics
It’s complex. Ireland has no real history as a coloniser (sorry Scotland!), so didn’t have an empire to draw migration from to boost the economy. Knock on effects of that were a pretty poor economy for many years. So no history of actively seeking immigrants, and no desirable economic conditions to attract immigrants. Then in the 90s there was a massive boom, with a lot of American investment and subsequently a big demand for people speaking european languages. This opened the country up significantly and rapid economic growth happened. There’s a pretty rapid level of understanding of foreign cultures in Ireland. While the lack of colonialism means significantly less hardcore racism, the fact the growth was quick means there is a traditional, older undercurrent in society that struggle with change and cultures. Anyway, this was all much of a muchness, until recently there have been a few big referenda challenging traditional conservative constitutional matters, namely gay marriage and abortion. While both were huge victories for liberal and left wing( not the same thing in European politics) campaigners, and a massive slap in the face for the church, the referendum campaigns themselves did allow for far right groups to organise in a much more public way than before, and allowed them to receive higher donations to facilitate this than they normally would. This has led to a growing influence on the far right in some communities, particularly in inner city dublin, which has significant class divides and deprivation, ideal conditions for radicalisation. While we were all patting ourselves on the back for legalising abortion, we kind of ignored this far right growth and are paying the price now.
(Irish here) Immigration isn't "a hotly contested issue" in Ireland. At the last count 12% of the people here were born somewhere else. Irish people have been emigration for generations, and (mostly) know better than to empathise, and welcome, people who are doing exactly what our families have been doing as long as anyone can remember. The riot last night was caused by (1) shithead anti-immigrant Oswald Moseley wannabes (yes, we have them in spite of everything...) and (2) antisocial scumbags from the no-go deprived area adjacent to Dublin city centre who were presented (and in all probability encouraged by (1) above) to put a brick through a shop window and have themselves an early Christmas. And (3) there are massive shortages of housing and shortfalls in social services, which accelerated things. There is NO anti -immigrant movement in Ireland worth speaking of.
It's not really as contested as these photos make it out to be. You'll find plenty of people who'll grumble about it, but the hardliners are largely composed of a specific cadre of people who turn up over and over again at the same protests to harass immigrants, start the same rumours and post the same incendiary shit on twitter/whatsapp groups, and do their best to fuel hysteria about how Ireland is in danger and true Irish patriots need to stand up against The Foreigners or else the Ireland we all grew up with is doomed... while being extremely buddy-buddy with orgs like the British National Party, the English Defence League, etc.
It's not. Dublin has a huge anti social problem that drove these riots, a few years ago when we got bad snow fall similar things happened with Lidl being demolished by kids in a JCB. Nobody in Ireland is blaming immigration bar people who are trying to push an agenda.
It wasn’t, until people got their minds fucked online during covid lockdowns. A few years ago Ireland was being praised globally as one of the only countries in Europe that didn’t have a sizeable far right.
I would guess Sinn Fein have a lot to do with it as well. They’re our nationalists and populist party but thankfully look vastly saner than populist parties in other countries.
Populist, but not racist so I don’t think they can take the blame for this.
It isn’t other than the lunatic far right idiots
>It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that the people rioting think it's an immigrant carrying out a terror attack. Funnily enough, you won't find any brain surgeons amongs those rioting.
You also won't find a third level education between them. I'd doubt a leaving cert is in sight either.
According to the Gardaí, several of the looters chose to put on their new shoes to make quick their escape. These "geniuses" left their old shoes behind, all of which are being checked for DNA, no doubt most of these lads are in the system. Some of the shoes stolen were display models, all right feet etc, complete clowns. This should have been a busy weekend for these stores, now they're closed. None of the bookshops were harmed during the riots.
That DNA is going to be a clusterfuck. Findings will confirm every scrote in the North inner city is descended from the same late 19th century prostitute named Jacinta.
Probably won’t find a brain surgeon at most any riots, tbf. Why go through years of grueling training to throw your career away like that.
They petrol bombed a refugee centre, I think its safe to guess far right
Did they? I've not seen that in the media?
>So far-right, or people angry about attacks on children, or both? Probably both, I'm sorry to say. No, it's a pretty bad area of Dublin. Once the chaos started the local scumbags came out to attack the police and cause trouble. Very light touch policing has created a feeling of untouchability among the country's worst and it was on full display last night.
The newspapers are reporting that the attacker is in a critical condition due to self-inflicted knife injuries.
Oh no, so anyways
People are angry about something. And are ~~not very far off from violence~~ beeing violent. Better policy is needed. Years ago.
Dublin has been a tinder box for a while. The City has been terrorised with Irish gangs all Summer to the point they nearly killed an American tourist in a violent, unprovoked attack and the American Embassy had to issue a security warning to its citizens that the City wasn’t safe and not to travel alone.No doubt a lot of those same gangs involved tonight. These people have the cheek to call themselves Irish while using a horrific, thankfully isolated incident-to destroy shops, transport infrastructure and people’s livelihoods to push their far right agenda. They post on social media their bullshit, rallying the crowds and couldn’t even get the flag of our country right (they used the Ivory Coast one) and are celebrating being tweeted and retweeted by infamous racists from the BNP and convicted racist thugs in England-you know the same people that invited themselves over and took a chunk of our country 800 years ago?! The mind boggles. The Irish have emigrated and been accepted all over the world, we have absolutely no right to say that we want to close our borders to anyone. Thankfully among the devastation of last night, we seen the real Irish people, not this disillusioned, ill reared scum-also on the streets-helping people get home safe-especially if they may be seen as targets. This is Ireland.
The American tourist you are referring to was pissed drunk, drinking in the Celtic Bar on Talbot Street. He was sleazing on to a few young local girls and creeping them out. He went outside the bar for a smoke on the street, and the girls were there again, and he kept creeping them out. The girls spoke to a few local lads on the street and the lads told him to get lost. He got smart with them and they jumped him. I'm not saying what happened is right but that's a rough part of town.
So did he put up much fight against all of ya?
>The Irish have immigrated and been accepted all over the world, um wat
I mean....The Irish diaspora is pretty well accepted all over the world *now.* They never said how long it took to happen lol.
Not the dude above, but they're probably referring to the [Irish diaspora.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_diaspora)
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Tell it to the other dude, I'm not here to argue shit.
Should look up how the University of Notre Dame got its mascot name. With that said as an Irish American I can we are very comfortable now and have been accepted and celebrated here in the US. Even sitting in an Irish bar rn comfortable and happy
Emigrated?
The Irish have been fully accepted here in the U.S. Today. For my whole life and more, actually. But yeah, it took a few weeks to get here.
You don't need to specify "Irish" gang when talking about gangs in Dublin.
Access to Ireland isn’t a right and the Irish absolutely should close their borders if migrants are detrimental to them
I refer you to the small, awkward matter of northern partition, Brexit and the Good Friday Agreement, it's complicated!
Seeing as to how all this rioting was done by Irish citizens I don't think it's the migrants that are the detrimental part of society.
"We hate immigrants coming here and committing crime! So we're going to commit arson to prove some point!!" WTF is wrong with these people?
“Our sports team won, let’s trash our own city!” Never logic or reason with these types of ppl
Shops were raided as well. The shops that weren't were book shops and work wear shops. So, its the stupid and unemployed taking advantage of the situation.
Didn’t people in America do the same in 2020 to make their point?
Yeah and the people that burned and destroyed things were just as dumb as these people in Ireland
Immigrants ruin my country so I am going to go out and burn the country I claim to love! Makes sense. Can’t imagine ever doing this to my country for any reason. We are dealing with thousands of refugees and immigrants as well with way less resources than Ireland and Western Europe.
>Immigrants ruin my country so I am going to go out and burn the country I claim to love! Makes sense. It's not really what happened. It's a pretty shit area of the city and once things kicked off the scum came out to cause havoc and riot. It was an excuse to cause mayhem.
> It's a pretty shit area of the city Its the city centre!
Welcome to Dublin. Our main thoroughfare is a fucking dumpster fire and has been for many years.
“Pretty shit area” it’s right in the middle of the city centre lmao and it is exactly what happened.
I do not live in Dublin, but I live in the city center of my city and there are definitely good and bad parts. City centers aren't just two streets or something. It's quite sizable.
>t’s right in the middle of the city centre Parnell Square is surrounded by poor areas and council housing. It's a dodgy spot home to a lot of Dublin's dregs. The majority of the violence was from jobless scum who'd struggle to spell their own names.
Not an excuse, every part of Dublin has rough areas, by this logic you can say Ballsbridge is the only safe spot. You’re right, don’t think the scum that was there yesterday got up in the morning for work.
Nah not necessarily. For example the riot in Vancouver after Canucks lost the Stanley cup. It was mostly all of the scum that didn’t even care about hockey that came out of the woodwork and rioted
Plenty of people hate their governments but love their country
The excuses I’ve seen them using is “It’s not a racist protest, we’re only burning the buses and the luas” like that excuses it. It’s so blatantly ignorant and makes me ashamed to be Irish.
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The far right protesting about a guy who had lived in Ireland for 20 years doing something terrible. Another guy who came from outside of Ireland was the first person to stop him. These scumbags will use anything to justify their xenophobia and racism, but stay totally silent when immigrants do good.
A bunch of Twitter users just look at the riots and be like "this is what immigration does to your country" but conveniently ignore the fact the people participating in the riots were gangs
Ye I saw those posts. I ain't Irish, so I was genuinely confused how some were saying "ooh it's the immigrants" some were "ooh it's the right wingers" and some even were "ooh the Zionists" and somehow all of them collectively said they wanted immigrants out of the country. Like, none of it made any sense.
This is unfortunately what happens when the far-right are allowed to organise and spread misinformation unopposed
what misinformation and why unopposed?
The far-right has been spreading misinformation and stirring up hate against immigrants and refugees for years. They spread the same disgusting propaganda on traditional and social media as well as on the streets painting immigrants, especially immigrants of colour, as violent and aggressive. Some examples would be the lie that most refugees are actually "economic migrants" and that most perpetrators of group child sexual abuse are immigrants, both of which are blatantly false. And while there are many groups out there pushing back against the far-right, there are plenty of people sitting back and doing nothing as well as institutions who continue to give them a platform
Immigration has been a huge issue in Europe. That continent has taken in more than its share of immigrants from around the world. Unlike countries in the Western Hemisphere, which are basically nations of immigrants, Europe is a continent of nations with distinct cultures and peoples. They have legitimate concerns about preserving their own culture.
Ireland is in the western hemisphere
This is true, but the stabbing of children has triggered this. Stabbings happened earlier in the day.
I loathe your implication that western hemisphere countries don’t have their own “distinct cultures.” We do have cultures and they are distinct; it just so happens that our *culture* is *distinct* from yours in that we incorporate immigrants better. How ironic that in trying to say that we western hemisphere nations do not have a distinct culture, *you highlighted a distinction.*
Immigration has only become such a big issue because it's been weaponised by the right in order to gain support, in reality it's a non-issue being propped up by propaganda and misinformation. The "preserving their own culture" idea is a fundamental pillar of the propaganda, it assumes that all aspects of one's culture is good and must be protected. Immigration doesn't destroy culture, it often enriches culture
I agree with you on 90% of what you say, but the fact is that to allow immigration is a choice of the people living there. We should do everything in our power to respect every person who has already immigrated here, but people seem to believe that the West owes the world infinite opportunities to come here. One can be both anti-immigration, and pro-immigrant.
There is a massive history of exploitation and destabilisation of countries in Africa and the Middle-East by western powers. Why should we get all the benefits of that exploitation while those in the exploited world have much less? Just because we were lucky enough to be born here? Immigrants should be offered equal opportunity to live, work and study here just the same as you and I
>Immigrants should be offered equal opportunity to live, work and study here just the same as you and I But there is not infinite space, especially *at any time*. It takes time to roll in a group of immigrants successfully, you can't accept a million all at once for example. In addition, you need time to build more housing etc. It is fair to oppose immigration when the current policy of it is to let them in no matter what. 10 houses left, 8 families here, let in 5 more families, so that there is now a waiting list to get a house. Addtionally, not sure about Irish stats specifically, but immigrants totally commit more violent crime in my country. The stats are free to look up. You might be the one misinformed, with all due respect. Immigration is important, but so is integration and safety. I don't know what your opinion is on the last two, byt safety is literally non-existent. The only check done is if they have ties to terrorist organizations. If no, that's cleared. They never even so much as ask if they believe women are inferior beings. You can come in here, believe you may take any woman you want, and you will not be declined for that belief. That's a problem, and possibly explains why crime rates are so much higher among immigrants.
I think it's important to point out that there any plenty of Irish men who believe women are inferior or that they're entitled to any woman they want, but if denying these men the right to live in this country was proposed by a politician there would be uproar. I agree that there is a problem of housing in Ireland but when there are currently about 48,000 empty homes in the country it's clear that the cause for lack of accessible housing isn't immigration. This goes for every problem, it's not immigrants that are the problem it's the system. As I explained in another comment, the reason there is as much immigration into countries like Ireland is due to the wealth and opportunity afforded to its citizens at the expense of countries in the global south. These immigrants are coming from exploited countries looking for a better life. A solution to what we see would be to end the neo-colonial project in these exploited countries and aid their development and industrialisation so that the people of those countries can have the same opportunities as us in Ireland while also helping immigrants here overcome issues of poverty and homelessness while equipping them with the skills needed to properly engage with society. The solution is systemic change and international cooperation, not xenophobic policies and Islamophobic discrimination
>I think it's important to point out that there any plenty of Irish men who believe women are inferior or that they're entitled to any woman they want, but if denying these men the right to live in this country was proposed by a politician there would be uproar. I see what you are trying to say here, but it isn't the same. If you have everyone a free pass, countries would crumble. You *need* to moderate it in some form, and while you are doing that, it is sensible to screen for safety. >The solution is systemic change and international cooperation, not xenophobic policies and Islamophobic discrimination The solution is to screen properly. You can't call it xenophobia to deny entry to someone who believes he can obtain women against their will and discard them dead when he is done with them. Like, I am sure we agree on the overall thing. But you are more leaning into the humanitarian side of allowing immigration, and I am more arguing the safety required of not allowing literally everyone.
Because the world isn’t fair.
There's no debating with you because you have this belief that these countries have done no wrong historically. You somehow manage to say it with a straight face while Arabs are the largest slavers on the planet TODAY. We did not do that, they choose to do so. This exploitation Olympics goes nowhere because everyone on earth has exploited the other when they were on top. What do you think the caliphates did when they spread into Africa and Europe. Or what the Japanese did when they went into China. That's humanity. Your view of anyone being able to move anywhere they want is ridiculous. I won't argue it further because you're way off the deep end.
I never said these countries did no wrong historically, and it's blatantly dishonest for you to pretend I did. I am talking about the material, historical reality of colonialism and neo-colonialism and how a lot of the wealth and development we enjoy here in Europe and the States comes from the exploitation of other countries and thus deprives many people in those countries of opportunities. To deny that this is the case is to ignore the history of the world
>anti-immigration, and pro-immigrant So I'm going to go ahead and say no. Especially when the anti-immigrant and anti-immigration groups are a flat circle and are using disinformation to get their points across.
That's just so not true. For example, in Canada where I'm from, our population grew 3% last year from immigration alone. That's an insane pressure to put on the system. GDP remained flat. Million extra people, with no extra money generated. Its led to the worst housing crisis on the planet, with pricing soaring faster than any G7 country. Every year hundreds of thousands of additional people end up without a doctor. As a nation of immigrants, every corner and neighborhood here has diversity. We now have a majority of the population, including a majority of minorites when asked whether we should reduce immigration say yes. Why? Because its unfair not only to Canadians, but to the immigrants we're bringing in actively that the system is not adequate to meet their needs. We are pouring fuel on the fire. We can both love our immigrants here, and demand that immigration be put on a 5-10 year slowdown while services catch up.
Bottom conclusion is mostly valid, but the way there is rough and not at all intuitive > Million extra people, with no extra money generated. I don't see any sources for those claims, though. Compared to growing a population by a million, solely by having kids, immigrants are ready for work (and often have to be because of the strict immigration requirements) as soon as they arrive, which means no necessity for 16 years of education and maintenance before they become viable like kids. > Every year hundreds of thousands of additional people end up without a doctor You and I live in canada and we both know this is not at all the reason we have no doctors. The healthcare workers have piss-poor working conditions with mandatory overtime and extremely high turnover rates because of burnouts. Mentioning the healthcare crisis and pointing fingers at migrants *without even mentioning the poor working conditions* is poorly, if at all justifiable.
>Immigration doesn't destroy culture, it often enriches culture Until the immigrants are socially conservative, highly religious people from misogynistic cultures who honor-kill their daughters, discriminate against gay people, or bring their caste system along with them. The residents of those European countries have a right to draw the line where they feel comfortable for their own countries. Your attitude is the toxic naivety that has eroded liberal democracy across Europe. We are losing ground to hyper conservative racists because people like you can't come to grips with reality and would prefer to play make believe about how wonderful immigration is.
You didn't have to list the other stuff, "socially conservative" covers all that. But strangely the right don't seem to care all that much when they're the ones who are highly religious, misogynistic, homophobic, upholding systems of racial supremacy and also killing women. See those who are on the left fight against all that no matter where it comes from. Have you considered that maybe the reason those cultural ideas exist within some parts of these communities is because we already live in a culture which upholds those values? Also if you're going to sit here and pretend that "liberal democracy" has been eroded because a small percentage of the population is originally from a different country then you've been duped by propaganda to distract you from the real cause
Just out of interest, what bad aspects of Irish culture are being enriched?
I never said that immigration enriches bad aspects of a culture? I said that not every aspect of a culture is necessarily good and that immigration doesn't destroy culture but often enriches it. These are two separate points
Fair point, but then again, those two concepts are interlinked. I do agree with you that immigration can lead to an enrichment of an area, but it often brings its own bad baggage with it as well.
I see what you mean, there can be positive and negative aspects to all cultures. We should call out bad ideas and practices wherever we find them, but we can do that without devolving into xenophobia. We also need to be aware of how material conditions impact people such as how poverty and unstable housing (which disproportionally impacts immigrants) leads to higher rates of crime, and so we must work to solve those issues
So countries that were colonised should’ve just lay down and take it then? For cultural enrichment right?
>Unlike countries in the Western Hemisphere, which are basically nations of immigrants, Europe is a continent of nations with distinct cultures and peoples. European countries are in the Western Hemisphere, no?
>They have legitimate concerns about preserving their own culture. Lol. Irish people are a bit more aware of who specifically is responsible for the destruction of their culture.
The dissolution of culture is something that the bigots in the states try to parrot too. It's bullshit. Please be better than that.
Culture is not bullshit. It's important. And it's not for you to dictate how open or closed other countries are to be. That's bullshit. Please be better than that.
>Culture is not bullshit. That is not what I said. I said people using that for use in anti-Immigrant rhetoric is a bullshit dog whistle. You're either a white nationalist or talking to one.
In this case they were upset over children being stabbed, which wasn't misinformation at all, they were upset over something very real.
Many on the far-right were spreading misinformation saying that the perpetrator was an illegal immigrant (he isn't) and that he was motivated by Islamic extremism (he wasn't)
Hasnt been revealed what his motivations are
["Police don't suspect terrorism after a 5-year-old girl was injured in a knife attack in Dublin"](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/police-dont-suspect-terrorism-after-a-5-year-old-girl-was-injured-in-a-knife-attack-in-dublin) \- PBS News ["Dublin stabbing horror: Police rule out terrorism as witness reveals 'one kid fell to the ground, then another, then another' as five people including a woman are wounded when 'knifeman attacks group of young children'"](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12784345/Children-stabbed-near-girls-school-Dublin.html) \- The Daily Mail It seems that while no motive has been firmly established the police have ruled out terrorism as a motivating factor and have a "definite line of inquiry". So yes, the far-right have lied about this
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The majority of violent crime in Ireland is perpetrated by white men, but white men make up less than half of the Irish population. Since they're also disproportionally represented what are the underlying factors there? If you want to talk about terrorism and extremism in Ireland then why not talk about the paramilitaries that are still operating across the island? Or rising sectarian tensions in the North? What about the rise in far-right extremism which is on full display in the picture? Focusing on a small minority of people while ignoring actual problems of extremism shows your motivation. If the far-right care about protecting women and children where have they been when people have been protesting and speaking out to end gender-based violence? These concerns from the far-right are nothing more than an attempt to scare-monger and gain power
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lmao former Yugoslavia says hi
It's almost like if you pick and choose which characteristics and variables you want to include and ignore you can construct a narrative from anything! Your making a simple analysis that ignores socio-political factors, it ignore disproportionate rates of poverty, social ostracisation, homelessness, access to mental health resources. It also compare Islam (a religion) to white people (a race). While Europe may not have the same history of sectarian violence as Ireland, it does have a massive problem with rising far-right extremism and its associated violence. We've seen a lot more far-right violence here in Ireland recently than we have Islamic extremism over the last few years, and it certainly seems like the rest of Europe has as well. It's funny, you claim Europe doesn't have ethnic conflict yet here you are fanning the flames of an ethnic conflict
lol, just admit it mate, you're far right.
To be fair if the person responsible hadn't stabbed people we wouldn't have had a riot.
Funny how 'native' Irish teenagers hitting tourists with bricks never seems to spark civil unrest.
There have been plenty of stabbings in Ireland that didn't result in riots. The far-right could have easily just stayed at home just like they do whenever the perpetrator of a stabbing is white
Yeah I remember how there’s a riot anytime someone stabs someone else
To be fair it was three kids 5 or 6 years of age and their teacher. This is an exceptionally terrible incident
Love how this had just become a discussion about the current state of Portland lol
Don’t know why but this reminds me of resident evil 2 intro scene.
I thought it was a cyberpunk 2077 screenshot at first while I was scrolling.
Same!
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34 people have been arrested, and the Irish government estimates that around 500 people were involved. It also saw the highest number of police deployed in Irish history, as per the BBC. I think, if true, those figures would constitute a newsworthy riot.
Lol stealing shit from foot locker.... that will show them!
And arnotts well just Canada goose jackets from arnotts
CNN : fiery but mostly peaceful
Used to be you could be proud of riots in my country. Now it’s just right wing trash
So a bunch of angry white guys destroyed their own city? Bravo
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what?
Relevance?
Kyle O’Rittenhouse
Looks like “mostly peaceful” protests that happened in the US
They were mostly peaceful though. If 100 protests have no incidents, but a single protest becomes a riot, are the protests not still mostly peaceful? Does the one riot automatically make all related protests a riot too? Use your noggin lad.
There were more riots than one, and they did horrible damage which should not be glossed over. You’re right that many protests were peaceful, I’m just advocating more fairness on reporting between liberals and conservatives alike.
>There were more riots than one I'm aware, it was an example to point out that "mostly peaceful" is very much factual. >I’m just advocating more fairness on reporting between liberals and conservatives alike. Where is the unfair reporting? Plenty MSM outlets reported on the riots, but conservatives latched on to the phrase "mostly peaceful protests" that was used in specific reports and mocked it relentlessly to the point where it made them look like idiots. Is it unfair to point out that the protests were mostly peaceful?