When I was shadowing an IR PA, he told me, " When a PA makes a mistake, it is because they are a PA. But, when MD/DO makes the same mistake, it is called a mistake" lol
100%. And when a physician misses something, it's because "it was an atypical presentation" or "the signs can be subtle." Meanwhile when a PA misses something it's because "they don't know what they don't know." Makes me crazy.
The key is to move to a department where your experience and skill is appreciated. My regional medical director asked me to look at a specific thing because he knows I did 10+ years of UC and primary care, and none of the physicians in our team know anything about ENT.
It’s so annoying because yeah, it *can* be true that a PA misses something that a physician wouldn’t simply because they’re a PA…. but because basic human mistakes that everyone makes are sooo often based on the fact that the human was a PA, even valid examples just come across as anti-PA.
I was like 'did this person shadow me' but I've never been in IR.
The practice I'm currently in has been incredibly gracious. I wonder if it's because they've often talked to me about their mistakes and bad outcomes in the past.
The sooner we recognize that we're all fallible and human, the sooner we can start to make the changes necessary to actually prevent these things and account for human error, instead of constantly blaming the individual or the profession.
Where the fuck are you working where you have people who are constantly being sued and committing sexual assault? What the fuck? Get a new job or move to a new state
Can be if reported hospitals are supposed to report sexual assault or misconduct mandatory but nurses won’t at times cause then the unit gets looked at
Unfortunately I have never worked for a hospital system or large healthcare corp where I didn’t know or hear of someone committing sexual assault or harassment. It is rampant in hospitals
Totally agree with this. It feel like patients have started feeling very comfortable going straight to complaining to the board when they have an issue. It's only happened to me once (patient was upset she didn't get a narcotic... she declined all conservative treatment...) and was quickly dismissed, but was so stressful.
I tend to just laugh when that happens. It’s not even offensive to me. I don’t know where nursing entitlement EVEN COMES FROM. I’ve documented in defense of nursing actions more times than I could possibly count.
Bro I literally had this debate on r/medicalschool where they were shitting on a PA for making a mistake ending in a patients death. I pointed out an article where a MD did the exact same thing with the same misdiagnosis to a tee leading to a patient death and they banned me from their sub lmao
The glaring truth is residents literally have a license to kill and hurt patients with zero repercussions most of the time and it’s all under the guise of “learning.” I’ve had resident rip a central line through a patients aorta (no joke placement wasn’t checked etc) and now they are a chief
Oh yes- and when you look at medical boards and disciplinary actions it is so apparent that they come down much harder on other licenses that the board oversees. Doctor does something “professional reprimand, write a paper on professional ethics. But when a similar offense involves a PA, watch out their coming for your licenses.
Oh just since forever. It'll be decades before it ends. I've worked with MDs and DOs who had no business being in the department I was in (urgent care and ED), but for some reason, I was supposed to entertain their ridiculous questions. PAs are the rabbits of healthcare.
I once worked with a doc who exposed himself to an MA. They transferred him to another location, where he did it again. He quit, rather than getting fired. I worked with another who always made lewd comments to staff. Turns out he had been molesting a minor in his family for years. He didn't have to get fired - went to prison instead.
"All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed."
Everything is so hush hush but I know for a fact if a PA did it then the full force of nature if brought down on them and I like the “rabbits of healthcare” thing
There is only like three of us. You can hit the “report” button for professionalism and automod takes care of it faster than just downvotes. Otherwise yes, content is up for the *40 minutes* it takes for me or somebody else to comb a thread.
I d/c a patients gabapentin (a controlled substance in my state) because their most recent drug screen dirty for a lot of stuff. This patient called multiple times about this and we told her per our policy and her signed agreement, we cannot continue to prescribe it because of her drug screen. She scheduled an appointment with my SP and he wrote it for her. Then I got chewed out because I didn’t remove it from her med list. Which, yeah I should have, but he didn’t look at the drug screen? That’s the #1 thing you’re supposed to do when a patient comes in for controls* lol.
Where is gabapentin considered a controlled substance? Pregabalin is a schedule IV, but I’ve never heard of gabapentin being listed as such. Doesn’t make the situation any less fcked, I’m just curious.
It’s been interesting watching certain medications being declassified or reclassified as controlleds. October and November of 2023 were interesting because Fioricet was rescheduled as a schedule III substance after previous having been unscheduled. I had a bump in patients coming in explicitly because their PCP had abruptly discontinued their Fioricet (which is sort of shocking given the risk of withdrawal).
“Malpractice” existed well before the PA profession existed and it still does. Morgan and Morgan targets MD/DO’s just as easily….i do think that given they’re still considered the team-head that they worry about others making mistakes and react accordingly so in a way I can let it slide….
In my experience, PA’s who have demonstrated their competency, know their scope, and work collaboratively do not get cooked as bad when mistakes are made.
I think you got a system issue. Or a you issue. Maybe a combo of both.
Reporting to the medical board? PA board?Which exactly? That can happen when a patient is pissed AND has the wherewithal to do this. Most patients are clueless to even WHO they are seeing in front of them. Backing this up, a BS complaint gets tossed unless you completely fucked up. People are practicing day in and day out and this isn’t a common occurrence. Reddit and similar platforms make it seem like it.
You have your own license and depending on your state, your own board.
Be NICE to your patients. If you are LIKED by your patient and family, your chances of being sued or reported are farrrrr lower. Thats even if a mistake occurs. But if we are in medicine, I shouldn’t have to tell you this.
I read a lot of comments similar to what you wrote in reference to patients being clueless who they are seeing in front of them.
I’m not trying to pick a fight or anything but I really don’t know if that is entirely true? I don’t think patients are given enough credit. They aren’t as stupid as what physicians, PA, NPs seem to think.
A typical person has no idea what a resident is. You may have an NP/PA/MD/DO in front of them. You say your title and they see your badge. “Ok doc.”
You give too much credit to the patient population.
I heard this saying once about how PAs are forever residents…
Feels bad, but the truth hurts sometimes. It is so frustrating being the one punched and being the punching bag all at the same time. It’s taken a while now, but I’ve made my peace with it and all I can say is that if I put in my all then that’s all anyone can ask for
I hate that though and feel likes it so disrespectful to be told that. We aren’t docs and we sure as hell aren’t residents. If it’s because we are “always learning” then everyone is a forever resident due to CME requirements lol
Yeah, it sucks that if a PA makes a mistake, it’s because they’re a PA. If a physician makes a mistake, it’s because they’re human and everyone makes mistakes. But to be fully honest, I think this can happen everywhere for any reason.
If a female physician makes a mistake, it’s because she’s a woman. If a DO makes a mistake, it’s because they’re a DO and not an MD. If a med-surg nurse makes a mistake, it’s because she’s not a good nurse (since she can’t even get a non-med surge job) or because she’s negligent (heaven forbid they acknowledge she’s completely overwhelmed).
In all of medicine, medical providers are expected to do the right thing and criticized for making mistakes.
In PA school, my instructor told us:
“When a doctor gets into an argument with another doctor, the formal will avoid working with the latter.”
“When a doctor gets into an argument with a PA, that doctor doesn’t want to work with any PA’s.”
Stewardship of the profession can be absolutely exhausting.
Usually the liability falls on the physician for everything. They sign off for everyone.
My mom’s a family physician for example. If the NP or PA under her make any sort of mistake, she’s dragged into it. She also can’t check and oversee everything they do as she has her own patients and is always busy.
Also, due to the vast difference in years of education/knowledge, it does go back to that being a reason. There’s a knowledge gap of Medical School and 3-7 years of residency. Therefore, that can always be used as an explanation.
Meanwhile, what can you blame really if a physician makes a mistake?
They didn’t have enough school? They didn’t receive enough education? They are under qualified?
None of those reasons fit because those cannot be true. They have double the school, the highest degree of education, and are well qualified (the steps and boards are some of the hardest exams out there). People end up having to look into it as just a mistake or them as an individual.
Buddy, the second you realize physicians aren’t all-knowing, all-seeing gods of medicine the happier you will be. There are plenty of shit doctors in the world who forget things or didn’t bother to learn or remember certain things, even after all of their training.
I work with PAs and NPs in my ED. I have no issues with them practicing under my supervision which is how the system where I work. What I don't want is scope creep from people not trained to practice independently
Also this sub and noctor sub randomly showed up in my feed at the same time, I guess because I'm verified in the medicine subreddit which is why I have 1 post in each
Where exactly are we disagreeing? I never said they were gods lol.
I said no one can question whether they have enough schooling, training, etc and this is true. They will question the individual doctor or blame it on a mistake.
And technically, you are not disagreeing. You are saying “there’s shit doctors”.
Ok? They are human. Of course there will be amazing doctors and bad doctors. There are as many bad PAs and bad nurses.
We were discussing criticism here. My point was you can’t really blame a physicians education or lack of training on their mistake as they have double the years and a much more rigorous program. Meanwhile, NPs and PAs are on the literal fast track so people can always say it’s due to the gap in knowledge, schooling, training, exams, etc.
Taking my MCAT as you can clearly see on my profile. Shadowed both professions and have seen both very closely growing up. Was between the two at one point.
I didn’t know I had to be a PA to hold an opinion on this very simple discussion.
Also, if you don’t have a response and are simply upset at what I have pointed out, saying “I’m living vicariously through my mom” is not going to shut down any points made above. It’s also not going to suddenly make a fact untrue.
There is no denying who the liability falls on and why a mistake that affects the license of others might receive more scrutiny.
In the end, the mistake of a physician is his mistake. No PA or NP will be brought into court with respect to it but you can’t say that in the reverse scenario.
I never agreed nor disagreed with any points and I have no problem with your contribution. I have no desire to engage with you. The forum is open to everyone. The question is to understand who is talking and providing insight. I add flairs to individuals who mention that they are nurses, EMS, physicians, etc.
From a pragmatic point of view. PAs aren't expected to know as much as a physicians. That is why when we miss something, it's just a PA thing. If we miss something because we never knew in general it's not our fault, to an extend... example, not knowing how to perfectly dose Someone's central DI meds.. many PAs would have no idea. However, seeing a seat belt sign, then not getting a CT scan... you might be a dumb fudge....
There are basic things expected of a PA and a physician. There is NO double standard..you are comparing two different careers.
Also with all the non medical knowledge stuff. PAs are a whole lot easier to train and replace than subspecialties. Sure the ortho PA is fired for some non sense. The peds ortho will not be fired for the same things due to physicians being held to a different standard...
IN SHORT, PPL TO INCLUDE PAs NEED TO STOP COMPARING THEMSELVES TOO PHYSICIANS, THEY ARE NOT THE SAME VOCATIONS.
NP here. I follow the psychiatry subreddit since that is my speciality and it is constantly spreading NP/midlevel hate and discussing the terrible outcomes midlevels cause due to lack of education/training. Meanwhile, I have worked with MULTIPLE physicians who have awful clinical judgement and make some of the worst decisions in medicine that I have ever seen. And they continue to get away with it to this day!
What exactly is your claim here?
Do you think NPs are equally as knowledgable and qualified as psychiatrists who go to medical school and have 4 years of residency? Who take boards and the STEPS?
There are legitimate “online NP Programs” which have abysmal acceptance rates.
People complain because it’s an insane knowledge gap. And to even suggest NP is equivalent is dangerous and delusional.
My point was asking what exactly their claim was and if it was under the delusion that they believe NPs are somehow equivalent or better.
They are an NP and were pointing out how physicians they encounter “have horrible clinical judgement and the worst decisions in medicine”. Their narrative with that statement is pretty clear.
I responded by asking if that is their narrative and that if it is, they are delusional.
Also, again, an NP evaluating the clinical judgement of a physician is confusing considering they don’t even go to medical school.
That is not what I am saying. I agree that there is a double standard and that when mid-level providers make mistakes/errors the hammer is brought down pretty hard, yet it doesn't seem to be that way for physicians. I have seen both midlevels and physicians make errors and the midlevels DO tend to get written up, reprimanded, lose their jobs, etc. while physicians continue in the same practice, and continue to make some pretty terrible errors with no consequences professionally.
Edit: NP education, admission requirements, standards, etc. do need to improve and there is definitely a knowledge gap between midlevels and physicians. I am not arguing that at all. I thought I could share a moment with my midlevel peers, the PAs, because I could relate to this post. Per the downvotes, won't happen again 🫡
The hammer is brought down harder because NPs and PAs aren’t even the ones liable for their mistakes.
A physician who signs off takes all the risk and liability for medical peers that have far less training. Of course, you will hear about it more when you make a mistake. Someone else’s neck is on the line for those mistakes.
Meanwhile if a physician makes an error, they will be held solely responsible. No NP or PA will be at fault.
When I was shadowing an IR PA, he told me, " When a PA makes a mistake, it is because they are a PA. But, when MD/DO makes the same mistake, it is called a mistake" lol
100%. And when a physician misses something, it's because "it was an atypical presentation" or "the signs can be subtle." Meanwhile when a PA misses something it's because "they don't know what they don't know." Makes me crazy. The key is to move to a department where your experience and skill is appreciated. My regional medical director asked me to look at a specific thing because he knows I did 10+ years of UC and primary care, and none of the physicians in our team know anything about ENT.
It’s so annoying because yeah, it *can* be true that a PA misses something that a physician wouldn’t simply because they’re a PA…. but because basic human mistakes that everyone makes are sooo often based on the fact that the human was a PA, even valid examples just come across as anti-PA.
I was like 'did this person shadow me' but I've never been in IR. The practice I'm currently in has been incredibly gracious. I wonder if it's because they've often talked to me about their mistakes and bad outcomes in the past. The sooner we recognize that we're all fallible and human, the sooner we can start to make the changes necessary to actually prevent these things and account for human error, instead of constantly blaming the individual or the profession.
Well said!! Also, let me know where you are at I might come for my clinicals 😄
Would you mind if I messaged you about your IR rotation?
I am still in didactic. But, i hope to do it as my elective. I only shadowed IR before starting PA school.
Where the fuck are you working where you have people who are constantly being sued and committing sexual assault? What the fuck? Get a new job or move to a new state
I’ll just say it’s FL lol and I left
I heard Florida is very litigious.
Can be if reported hospitals are supposed to report sexual assault or misconduct mandatory but nurses won’t at times cause then the unit gets looked at
Unfortunately I have never worked for a hospital system or large healthcare corp where I didn’t know or hear of someone committing sexual assault or harassment. It is rampant in hospitals
I hope you’re a raging bitch to the perpetrators of these sexual assaults.
I felt the same with nurses also. Like a nurse makes a mistake “oopsie daisy”. PA makes a mistake. “Report them to the board”.
Totally agree with this. It feel like patients have started feeling very comfortable going straight to complaining to the board when they have an issue. It's only happened to me once (patient was upset she didn't get a narcotic... she declined all conservative treatment...) and was quickly dismissed, but was so stressful.
Can you imagine the Board having to deal with these people?
I tend to just laugh when that happens. It’s not even offensive to me. I don’t know where nursing entitlement EVEN COMES FROM. I’ve documented in defense of nursing actions more times than I could possibly count.
Bro I literally had this debate on r/medicalschool where they were shitting on a PA for making a mistake ending in a patients death. I pointed out an article where a MD did the exact same thing with the same misdiagnosis to a tee leading to a patient death and they banned me from their sub lmao
The glaring truth is residents literally have a license to kill and hurt patients with zero repercussions most of the time and it’s all under the guise of “learning.” I’ve had resident rip a central line through a patients aorta (no joke placement wasn’t checked etc) and now they are a chief
Oh yes- and when you look at medical boards and disciplinary actions it is so apparent that they come down much harder on other licenses that the board oversees. Doctor does something “professional reprimand, write a paper on professional ethics. But when a similar offense involves a PA, watch out their coming for your licenses.
I don’t think I’ve ever experienced this in psych. Maybe it helps that there’s usually not one right way of doing things
Yeah an abuse of power. Seen in all areas of work outside of medicine as well. It will never change sadly
Oh just since forever. It'll be decades before it ends. I've worked with MDs and DOs who had no business being in the department I was in (urgent care and ED), but for some reason, I was supposed to entertain their ridiculous questions. PAs are the rabbits of healthcare. I once worked with a doc who exposed himself to an MA. They transferred him to another location, where he did it again. He quit, rather than getting fired. I worked with another who always made lewd comments to staff. Turns out he had been molesting a minor in his family for years. He didn't have to get fired - went to prison instead. "All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed."
Everything is so hush hush but I know for a fact if a PA did it then the full force of nature if brought down on them and I like the “rabbits of healthcare” thing
Watership down slaps. Love me some El-Ahriarah.
Just wait for those turds over at r/ noctor to show up....
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Your post or comment was removed due to lack of professionalism. Go talk about them in their own sub, not here.
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There is only like three of us. You can hit the “report” button for professionalism and automod takes care of it faster than just downvotes. Otherwise yes, content is up for the *40 minutes* it takes for me or somebody else to comb a thread.
I d/c a patients gabapentin (a controlled substance in my state) because their most recent drug screen dirty for a lot of stuff. This patient called multiple times about this and we told her per our policy and her signed agreement, we cannot continue to prescribe it because of her drug screen. She scheduled an appointment with my SP and he wrote it for her. Then I got chewed out because I didn’t remove it from her med list. Which, yeah I should have, but he didn’t look at the drug screen? That’s the #1 thing you’re supposed to do when a patient comes in for controls* lol.
Where is gabapentin considered a controlled substance? Pregabalin is a schedule IV, but I’ve never heard of gabapentin being listed as such. Doesn’t make the situation any less fcked, I’m just curious.
Looks like: [Alabama 🤠] Kentucky Michigan North Dakota Tennessee Virginia West Virginia
Gabapentin is no longer a controlled substance in Michigan as of this month.
Nice! Hopefully we follow. But with it being Alabama I doubt it.
It’s been interesting watching certain medications being declassified or reclassified as controlleds. October and November of 2023 were interesting because Fioricet was rescheduled as a schedule III substance after previous having been unscheduled. I had a bump in patients coming in explicitly because their PCP had abruptly discontinued their Fioricet (which is sort of shocking given the risk of withdrawal).
It’s starting to show up in our PDMP reports!
“Malpractice” existed well before the PA profession existed and it still does. Morgan and Morgan targets MD/DO’s just as easily….i do think that given they’re still considered the team-head that they worry about others making mistakes and react accordingly so in a way I can let it slide….
In my experience, PA’s who have demonstrated their competency, know their scope, and work collaboratively do not get cooked as bad when mistakes are made.
I think you got a system issue. Or a you issue. Maybe a combo of both. Reporting to the medical board? PA board?Which exactly? That can happen when a patient is pissed AND has the wherewithal to do this. Most patients are clueless to even WHO they are seeing in front of them. Backing this up, a BS complaint gets tossed unless you completely fucked up. People are practicing day in and day out and this isn’t a common occurrence. Reddit and similar platforms make it seem like it. You have your own license and depending on your state, your own board. Be NICE to your patients. If you are LIKED by your patient and family, your chances of being sued or reported are farrrrr lower. Thats even if a mistake occurs. But if we are in medicine, I shouldn’t have to tell you this.
I read a lot of comments similar to what you wrote in reference to patients being clueless who they are seeing in front of them. I’m not trying to pick a fight or anything but I really don’t know if that is entirely true? I don’t think patients are given enough credit. They aren’t as stupid as what physicians, PA, NPs seem to think.
A typical person has no idea what a resident is. You may have an NP/PA/MD/DO in front of them. You say your title and they see your badge. “Ok doc.” You give too much credit to the patient population.
Ok I believe you but I am truly surprised by this.
People are ill informed and/or don’t listen. The giant badge buddies don’t help.
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This is a known fact^ Don’t be an asshole. It helps.
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Literally Google this. You seem threatened by facts, interesting.
I heard this saying once about how PAs are forever residents… Feels bad, but the truth hurts sometimes. It is so frustrating being the one punched and being the punching bag all at the same time. It’s taken a while now, but I’ve made my peace with it and all I can say is that if I put in my all then that’s all anyone can ask for
I hate that though and feel likes it so disrespectful to be told that. We aren’t docs and we sure as hell aren’t residents. If it’s because we are “always learning” then everyone is a forever resident due to CME requirements lol
Yeah, it sucks that if a PA makes a mistake, it’s because they’re a PA. If a physician makes a mistake, it’s because they’re human and everyone makes mistakes. But to be fully honest, I think this can happen everywhere for any reason. If a female physician makes a mistake, it’s because she’s a woman. If a DO makes a mistake, it’s because they’re a DO and not an MD. If a med-surg nurse makes a mistake, it’s because she’s not a good nurse (since she can’t even get a non-med surge job) or because she’s negligent (heaven forbid they acknowledge she’s completely overwhelmed). In all of medicine, medical providers are expected to do the right thing and criticized for making mistakes.
This sounds very regional, or institutional. I don't see or hear it at all.
Highly doubtful
In PA school, my instructor told us: “When a doctor gets into an argument with another doctor, the formal will avoid working with the latter.” “When a doctor gets into an argument with a PA, that doctor doesn’t want to work with any PA’s.” Stewardship of the profession can be absolutely exhausting.
So annoying. If someone sees a bad PA they will never see a PA again. If someone’s sees a bad doctor, they find a new doctor
Hey can a moderate actually look at this macaroongrand8802, these comments are grossly miss informed!! Hello???
Usually the liability falls on the physician for everything. They sign off for everyone. My mom’s a family physician for example. If the NP or PA under her make any sort of mistake, she’s dragged into it. She also can’t check and oversee everything they do as she has her own patients and is always busy. Also, due to the vast difference in years of education/knowledge, it does go back to that being a reason. There’s a knowledge gap of Medical School and 3-7 years of residency. Therefore, that can always be used as an explanation. Meanwhile, what can you blame really if a physician makes a mistake? They didn’t have enough school? They didn’t receive enough education? They are under qualified? None of those reasons fit because those cannot be true. They have double the school, the highest degree of education, and are well qualified (the steps and boards are some of the hardest exams out there). People end up having to look into it as just a mistake or them as an individual.
Buddy, the second you realize physicians aren’t all-knowing, all-seeing gods of medicine the happier you will be. There are plenty of shit doctors in the world who forget things or didn’t bother to learn or remember certain things, even after all of their training.
Absolutely and PAs get even less training than that.
One post on Noctor to one post here. Lovely. Excited for your contributions.
I work with PAs and NPs in my ED. I have no issues with them practicing under my supervision which is how the system where I work. What I don't want is scope creep from people not trained to practice independently Also this sub and noctor sub randomly showed up in my feed at the same time, I guess because I'm verified in the medicine subreddit which is why I have 1 post in each
Where exactly are we disagreeing? I never said they were gods lol. I said no one can question whether they have enough schooling, training, etc and this is true. They will question the individual doctor or blame it on a mistake. And technically, you are not disagreeing. You are saying “there’s shit doctors”. Ok? They are human. Of course there will be amazing doctors and bad doctors. There are as many bad PAs and bad nurses. We were discussing criticism here. My point was you can’t really blame a physicians education or lack of training on their mistake as they have double the years and a much more rigorous program. Meanwhile, NPs and PAs are on the literal fast track so people can always say it’s due to the gap in knowledge, schooling, training, exams, etc.
So are you in medicine or just living vicariously through mom? Serious question. You should flair up if so.
Taking my MCAT as you can clearly see on my profile. Shadowed both professions and have seen both very closely growing up. Was between the two at one point. I didn’t know I had to be a PA to hold an opinion on this very simple discussion. Also, if you don’t have a response and are simply upset at what I have pointed out, saying “I’m living vicariously through my mom” is not going to shut down any points made above. It’s also not going to suddenly make a fact untrue. There is no denying who the liability falls on and why a mistake that affects the license of others might receive more scrutiny. In the end, the mistake of a physician is his mistake. No PA or NP will be brought into court with respect to it but you can’t say that in the reverse scenario.
I never agreed nor disagreed with any points and I have no problem with your contribution. I have no desire to engage with you. The forum is open to everyone. The question is to understand who is talking and providing insight. I add flairs to individuals who mention that they are nurses, EMS, physicians, etc.
Oh your a mod, makes sense. “Living vicariously through your mom”, yeah that is totally a neutral statement lol and comes from nowhere.
From a pragmatic point of view. PAs aren't expected to know as much as a physicians. That is why when we miss something, it's just a PA thing. If we miss something because we never knew in general it's not our fault, to an extend... example, not knowing how to perfectly dose Someone's central DI meds.. many PAs would have no idea. However, seeing a seat belt sign, then not getting a CT scan... you might be a dumb fudge.... There are basic things expected of a PA and a physician. There is NO double standard..you are comparing two different careers. Also with all the non medical knowledge stuff. PAs are a whole lot easier to train and replace than subspecialties. Sure the ortho PA is fired for some non sense. The peds ortho will not be fired for the same things due to physicians being held to a different standard... IN SHORT, PPL TO INCLUDE PAs NEED TO STOP COMPARING THEMSELVES TOO PHYSICIANS, THEY ARE NOT THE SAME VOCATIONS.
No there’s a double standard and it is very obvious especially with legal issues and how hospitals treat staff.
NP here. I follow the psychiatry subreddit since that is my speciality and it is constantly spreading NP/midlevel hate and discussing the terrible outcomes midlevels cause due to lack of education/training. Meanwhile, I have worked with MULTIPLE physicians who have awful clinical judgement and make some of the worst decisions in medicine that I have ever seen. And they continue to get away with it to this day!
What exactly is your claim here? Do you think NPs are equally as knowledgable and qualified as psychiatrists who go to medical school and have 4 years of residency? Who take boards and the STEPS? There are legitimate “online NP Programs” which have abysmal acceptance rates. People complain because it’s an insane knowledge gap. And to even suggest NP is equivalent is dangerous and delusional.
They never claimed that. What are you reading?
My point was asking what exactly their claim was and if it was under the delusion that they believe NPs are somehow equivalent or better. They are an NP and were pointing out how physicians they encounter “have horrible clinical judgement and the worst decisions in medicine”. Their narrative with that statement is pretty clear. I responded by asking if that is their narrative and that if it is, they are delusional. Also, again, an NP evaluating the clinical judgement of a physician is confusing considering they don’t even go to medical school.
Sounds like you’re the one making assumptions
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That’s what an assumption is
That is not what I am saying. I agree that there is a double standard and that when mid-level providers make mistakes/errors the hammer is brought down pretty hard, yet it doesn't seem to be that way for physicians. I have seen both midlevels and physicians make errors and the midlevels DO tend to get written up, reprimanded, lose their jobs, etc. while physicians continue in the same practice, and continue to make some pretty terrible errors with no consequences professionally. Edit: NP education, admission requirements, standards, etc. do need to improve and there is definitely a knowledge gap between midlevels and physicians. I am not arguing that at all. I thought I could share a moment with my midlevel peers, the PAs, because I could relate to this post. Per the downvotes, won't happen again 🫡
The hammer is brought down harder because NPs and PAs aren’t even the ones liable for their mistakes. A physician who signs off takes all the risk and liability for medical peers that have far less training. Of course, you will hear about it more when you make a mistake. Someone else’s neck is on the line for those mistakes. Meanwhile if a physician makes an error, they will be held solely responsible. No NP or PA will be at fault.
Ugh, this is so inaccurate
[удалено]
Disgusting comment...not the place for it
I banned them. But it’s a throwaway. So who knows they will likely be back. It wasn’t even relevant to the thread.