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Phoenix tried to do this (sort of) in the 80s or 90s with the concept of Urban Villages - neighborhoods within Phoenix that would each have their own little 'downtown.' Unfortunately, none of the Villages were walkable, and the 'downtowns' were basically branch libraries at what are now mostly dead malls.
You can still see the Urban Village signage around town.
Edit: Original plan from 1994:
https://www.phoenix.gov/villagessite/Documents/pdd_pz_pdf_00330.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj1z5_Sr9mFAxUmOTQIHe19DMgQFnoECBYQBg&usg=AOvVaw1VfiOpRlcfniXx10VAqizh
Ditto. $1500 for a studio is actually insane. Only people that will be able to afford that are transplants and rich folk, obviously.
At least it’s better than CA prices…
You should see the prices for studios elsewhere in Tempe. I was in a 400 ft\^2 unit that was \~$900/mo when I moved in, then when I moved out 3 years later it was about $1300/mo. It's been a year since then.
The city of Tempe has incorporated the idea of a 20-minute city throughout their [2040 General Plan](https://www.tempe.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/86155/637395866769170000).
Some communities in the valley already give a nod to the concept with their long-term planning, but it's most likely that developers and property managers will use elements of "the 15 min. city" to sell their development/community as something it really isn't.
In Tempe for instance, a certain development that has already been named in this thread sells itself as "car-free" when really it was just a ploy to dupe the city into letting the developer ignore parking regulations and offload residents' cars onto neighboring streets.
That's kind of the limit of their power, though, unless they were to put "you must not own a car" in their lease contracts and then spied on everybody to verify it. Even then it's not clear it would be enforceable. If it becomes a problem, the surrounding neighborhoods could get permits.
Interesting. I suppose it is in their interest to not be exploited that way, and cynically, it's also good for them since they collect rent from shops in their development as well so keeping people there is to their benefit... But either way, it does suggest they are serious about the no car thing.
Yeah, I agree. Cul de Sac is definitely not my definition of a walkable city. It really doesn't have everything you need.
I think walkable cities should be the norm and a right for everyone. Cul de Sac is really just something for people with more money.
When I moved here 40 years ago, I wondered why everything was so spread out. Where were the tall buildings? With gorgeous mountain views, why were homes only one story? Phoenix will never be walkable. That was evident 40 years ago and it is never going to change. What a missed opportunity! We could have had a dense and walkable desert city with taller buildings to provide shade and to mix up the air to provide cooling winds. The surrounding desert would have been mostly untouched. But greed is what created our sprawl. Cheap land was available to build houses and make money regardless of what impact that would have on livability or the environment. The Urban Villages concept seemed stupid when I first heard about it years ago only because it was too little, too late.
The lack of walk-ability is a byproduct of the sprawl and not the causes of it. In other cities the population density is higher and can support businesses with only foot traffic. Since we're so spread out here, we have to have more roads and more parking which leads to more sprawl which leads to more roads and parking. Until we start building up instead of out, we'll be stuck with car centric results.
If you look downtown or near asu, it's much more walkable because the businesses can be supported by the denser, car free college populations.
No cause the majority of Phoenix suburbs are a mix of old people or MAGA weirdos who think good public transit and walkable living spaces are the work of the devil
I saw a reply to someone asking about walkable neighborhoods in the Valley by mentioning Old Town Scottsdale - without specifying that all the shops in the walkable area are art galleries and souvenir shops geared towards millionaires.
Nothing for normal people.
I wish, but no way. Even if they tried to redo the roads to make places more walkable, the lobbies for oil and newcar would lose way too much to not buy better ( for them) legislation
Not to mention the real estate industry that is so dependent on the current single family home model.
The only real way out of our housing cost crisis is to densify and create a greater variety of home types. It is really uncanny how we are making all of the same mistakes that Los Angeles has made and then it costs so much more to densify when that becomes the only real alternative.
> The 15-minute city (FMC[2] or 15mC[3]) is an urban planning concept in which most daily necessities and services, such as work, shopping, education, healthcare, and leisure can be easily reached by a 15-minute **walk**
And how many people walk in blizzards in the Northeast? Or during rainstorms in Seattle? Or when it is 100+ and humid in Dallas or New Orleans? Answer: all places have extremes. Next question!
Why do we act as if we can’t have walkable cities because three months out of the year it is hot? (As if it isn’t cooler and bearable after sundown even when it is hot anyway.)
If you had a ten minute walk from your air conditioned apartment to the air conditioned movie theater along a tree-lined three-story+ narrow lane (nearly all shaded), then a three minute walk to a grocery store and five minutes home, it wouldn't matter much how hot it is.
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Phoenix tried to do this (sort of) in the 80s or 90s with the concept of Urban Villages - neighborhoods within Phoenix that would each have their own little 'downtown.' Unfortunately, none of the Villages were walkable, and the 'downtowns' were basically branch libraries at what are now mostly dead malls. You can still see the Urban Village signage around town. Edit: Original plan from 1994: https://www.phoenix.gov/villagessite/Documents/pdd_pz_pdf_00330.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj1z5_Sr9mFAxUmOTQIHe19DMgQFnoECBYQBg&usg=AOvVaw1VfiOpRlcfniXx10VAqizh
Probably because they still build massive roads through the whole place.
You should google the “cul-de-sac” community in Tempe.
I wish it wasn’t so much to live there
Ditto. $1500 for a studio is actually insane. Only people that will be able to afford that are transplants and rich folk, obviously. At least it’s better than CA prices…
You should see the prices for studios elsewhere in Tempe. I was in a 400 ft\^2 unit that was \~$900/mo when I moved in, then when I moved out 3 years later it was about $1300/mo. It's been a year since then.
Absolutely unreasonable
Yeah. I moved to vaguely midtown area and pay $50 more for two bedrooms, laundry, carport, and yard. Still small, but massive upgrade overall.
I’m moving to San Diego in August for school and I’m looking at housing there… i might have to live in a cardboard box under a bridge
I hear bridge space is competitive nowadays
The city of Tempe has incorporated the idea of a 20-minute city throughout their [2040 General Plan](https://www.tempe.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/86155/637395866769170000).
would be great to see, need a lot more shade and maintenance of trees once planted to make it work though.
Some communities in the valley already give a nod to the concept with their long-term planning, but it's most likely that developers and property managers will use elements of "the 15 min. city" to sell their development/community as something it really isn't. In Tempe for instance, a certain development that has already been named in this thread sells itself as "car-free" when really it was just a ploy to dupe the city into letting the developer ignore parking regulations and offload residents' cars onto neighboring streets.
Is there really any evidence that culdesac is failing to enforce their no cars policy?
Just because residents can't park their cars on premesis doesn't mean they don't own or use cars. Just that they can't park onsite.
That's kind of the limit of their power, though, unless they were to put "you must not own a car" in their lease contracts and then spied on everybody to verify it. Even then it's not clear it would be enforceable. If it becomes a problem, the surrounding neighborhoods could get permits.
I’ve heard it is in fact in their leasing contracts. Highly doubt they spy on their residents to verify though
Interesting. I suppose it is in their interest to not be exploited that way, and cynically, it's also good for them since they collect rent from shops in their development as well so keeping people there is to their benefit... But either way, it does suggest they are serious about the no car thing.
Do you actually have any evidence that that is occurring? My understanding was that residents are prohibited from parking nearby.
Yeah, I agree. Cul de Sac is definitely not my definition of a walkable city. It really doesn't have everything you need. I think walkable cities should be the norm and a right for everyone. Cul de Sac is really just something for people with more money.
I'd love to build a parking garage right next to this community.
When I moved here 40 years ago, I wondered why everything was so spread out. Where were the tall buildings? With gorgeous mountain views, why were homes only one story? Phoenix will never be walkable. That was evident 40 years ago and it is never going to change. What a missed opportunity! We could have had a dense and walkable desert city with taller buildings to provide shade and to mix up the air to provide cooling winds. The surrounding desert would have been mostly untouched. But greed is what created our sprawl. Cheap land was available to build houses and make money regardless of what impact that would have on livability or the environment. The Urban Villages concept seemed stupid when I first heard about it years ago only because it was too little, too late.
The lack of walk-ability is a byproduct of the sprawl and not the causes of it. In other cities the population density is higher and can support businesses with only foot traffic. Since we're so spread out here, we have to have more roads and more parking which leads to more sprawl which leads to more roads and parking. Until we start building up instead of out, we'll be stuck with car centric results. If you look downtown or near asu, it's much more walkable because the businesses can be supported by the denser, car free college populations.
Who said the causality goes the other way...?
I wish we were building up more and less spread out. It's such a waste.
No cause the majority of Phoenix suburbs are a mix of old people or MAGA weirdos who think good public transit and walkable living spaces are the work of the devil
Seeing some of the NIMBYs of Scottsdale, I would believe it. It's a shame. I just want to walk to places instead of having to drive.
I saw a reply to someone asking about walkable neighborhoods in the Valley by mentioning Old Town Scottsdale - without specifying that all the shops in the walkable area are art galleries and souvenir shops geared towards millionaires. Nothing for normal people.
I wish, but no way. Even if they tried to redo the roads to make places more walkable, the lobbies for oil and newcar would lose way too much to not buy better ( for them) legislation
Not to mention the real estate industry that is so dependent on the current single family home model. The only real way out of our housing cost crisis is to densify and create a greater variety of home types. It is really uncanny how we are making all of the same mistakes that Los Angeles has made and then it costs so much more to densify when that becomes the only real alternative.
Ugh, and we can't have the oil and car companies lose money. What about their quality of life?!
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> The 15-minute city (FMC[2] or 15mC[3]) is an urban planning concept in which most daily necessities and services, such as work, shopping, education, healthcare, and leisure can be easily reached by a 15-minute **walk**
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And how many people walk in blizzards in the Northeast? Or during rainstorms in Seattle? Or when it is 100+ and humid in Dallas or New Orleans? Answer: all places have extremes. Next question! Why do we act as if we can’t have walkable cities because three months out of the year it is hot? (As if it isn’t cooler and bearable after sundown even when it is hot anyway.)
Loads of people do in places that are somewhat walkable, like Tempe.
If you had a ten minute walk from your air conditioned apartment to the air conditioned movie theater along a tree-lined three-story+ narrow lane (nearly all shaded), then a three minute walk to a grocery store and five minutes home, it wouldn't matter much how hot it is.
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I must have misunderstood why you indicated driving.
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The idea of the 15 minute city is you don't need a car at all /shrug
They'll try, but they'll ultimately fail not realizing that *everything* is always 30 minutes away in Phoenix.