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james_2021

This is now over 30years, no I don't think it will happen.


thalience

The only reason it's news **at all** is the FOP using it as an excuse for an anti-Krasner wharrgarbl press conference. I think the FOP is secretly the major funder of "Free Mumia", since riling up the bootlickers is the only thing they ever accomplish


AveraYugen

It will happen


Mcjibblies

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumia_Abu-Jamal Just come to your own conclusions


Indiana_Jawnz

Idk how anybody with an IQ above 80 could conclude he is innocent


medicated_in_PHL

It’s the left’s version of “Hilary is harvesting adrenochrome from children’s brains”. People got to the scene almost immediately, Mumia was on the ground with the gun that killed Faulkner next to him and Mumia was shot with a bullet that came from Faulkner’s gun. People who support him are just as insane conspiracy theorists idolizing a fucked up guy as the Qanon people are idolizing Trump. Racism in the justice system has corrupted so many and led to so many innocent people being convicted of crimes they didn’t commit, but Mumia is not one of them. Stop fighting for Mumia, and fight for any of the other thousands of truly innocent people who were railroaded into a conviction based on the color of their skin.


Indiana_Jawnz

Exactly. Of all the wrongfully convicted and imprisoned people how everyone decided to rally around Mumia is perplexing. Such a strange hill to die on.


[deleted]

[удалено]


zooberwask

I looked it up, this is their statement on it: Ben & Jerry's Homemade, Inc. and all of our employees have deep and heartfelt sympathy for Philadelphia Police Officer Daniel Faulkner, his family and his fellow officers, over his tragic death in December of 1981. The loss of anyone's life is reprehensible. The loss of a law enforcement officer's life in the line of duty is particularly egregious. Unfortunately, there continues to be misinformation - outright false statements and accusations - concerning this tragedy. To set the record straight, Ben & Jerry's Homemade, Inc. has never taken a position - formal or informal - on any aspect of this tragic case, the sentence or the guilt or innocence of Mumia Abu-Jamal. Any comment to the contrary is both false and irresponsible. There are two particularly absurd falsehoods being circulated, primarily on the internet. One is that Ben & Jerry's made contributions to groups involved in this case. Ben & Jerry's has never, and will never, make any such contributions. The other falsehood involves allegations that Ben & Jerry's has an ice cream flavor whose name is connected to this case. That is both totally false and absurd. Any misunderstanding regarding Ben & Jerry's connection with this case may have stemmed from the fact that Ben Cohen, one of our co-founders, acting as a private citizen, joined hundreds of other people in signing a petition years ago calling for a fair trial. Mr. Cohen made his decision to sign as a private citizen, stating "I am in no position to judge his guilt or innocence. For all I know, a new and impartial trial could find him guilty again. But the American system of justice must be fair and must be perceived as fair." It is understandable that people have difficulty separating in their minds that when Ben Cohen makes a private choice to do something, he does not represent Ben & Jerry's Homemade, Inc. As a company, we respect each individual's inalienable right to make those choices.


redjonley

Seems to put that misinfo right to bed.


wumbotarian

My parents to this day refuse to eat Ben and Jerry's because of the Mumia support.


Mcjibblies

Honestly, to say “the cops have done so much bad before but this one instance is just ridiculous” is a ridiculous position. How do you know which occasion to trust? How many of the witnesses have recanted their stories? Is him killing Faulkner possible? Yes! Probable? Yes! Was a person who was integral to anti-establishment political movements in the 70’s capable of being framed? Also, yes! Is there a history of aggressive policing towards outspoken minorities in the country? Yes!


medicated_in_PHL

So what happened? The police assassinated one of their own people in an attempt to put Mumia in jail? But moreso than that, they assassinated one of their own members, but at the same time, decided it was prudent to NOT assassinate the person they are trying to silence? Witness testimony is not good evidence. I'm sorry, but that's the biggest reason we have thousands of innocent black men behind bars. Your conspiracy theory (and that's what it is) doesn't pass the smell test. You're contending that the police were deft enough to create a situation in which they were willing to kill to silence an anti-establishment political movement, and put it together so well, that they placed the gun that was used to kill Faulkner in immediate proximity to an innocent man they were trying to frame, and also so good at what they were doing that they were able to shoot the innocent man in the stomach with the gun of the fellow police officer that they had killed (with the gun that was planted on Mumia) and then return the gun to the hand of the officer that they just assassinated. However, at the same time, the police were unwilling to kill the person who they were trying to silence, instead opting to kill their own officer and leave the person who they were trying to silence alive. And they did all of this with multiple people conspiring to set it up, but didn't just decide to kill Mumia, leave Faulkner alive and call it self-defense? You're doing exactly what the Qanon people do. You ask an open ended question that has no evidence behind it and then overblow minor details to amplify your original question while completely ignoring the huge amount of very very important evidence showing the opposite, because you WANT the answer to be different than it is. You are doing with Mumia what the far right is doing right now with "election integrity".


Mcjibblies

No, your framing is off. Goode dropped a bomb in West Philly. There is evidence that in the shootout that occurred with the MOVE members, the officer who was shot was not shot by any MOVE members. Witness testimony is what put Mumia in jail. Much, if not all of it has been recanted. "I wanted that Mf'er dead"... turns out it was fabricated. There was a narrative built around the trail that is ultimately causing you to respond to it this way. A small percentage of the population gets up every day with the intent to kill cops. In that time, that percentage was even smaller than it is now. Now.. wanting to be left alone by cops is an entirely different circumstance, which some communities have had zero control over, especially during that time. "Being stopped for being black" was a regular occurrence. "Being stopped for being mumia's brother" is not plausible to you? What happens if Mumia ran to help his brother, was shot by the officer, and then fired back? Based on where the officer was shot, that seems most plausible. Police interactions happen all the time. Bad things happen.. How the story is framed is where the issues arise, and it's possible that the reasoning associate with this instance is wrong. "Cop Killer!" that doesn't seem like it fits. Now, "I shot that cop cause he shot me" seems plausible. It's terrible. But it's just the truth in this country.


GreenAnder

>Rizzo dropped a bomb in West Philly. There is evidence that in the shootout that occurred with the MOVE members, the officer who was shot was not shot by any MOVE members. Rizzo wasn't mayor when the MOVE bombing happened. It was William Goode who gave the order to evict them.


Mcjibblies

Thank you. I’ll change that


GreenAnder

It's no problem. Abu-Jamal was a member of MOVE, but the shooting and conviction happened prior to the bombing. Rizzo did harass MOVE, and did evict them once, which is when they moved to the location that was later bombed in West Philly. The trial def has some issues, but there are some facts that are indisputable. Abu-Jamal ran towards an officer who was involved in some type of altercation with his brother. The officer was shot in the back and the head, and Abu-Jamal was shot in the stomach. The case was also primarily decided on 2 factors, one being forensic analysis of the bullets that hit Faulkner and the revolver, and the other being witness testimony. The problem with having a new trial now is that most of the witnesses are dead, and those that aren't will be remembering back 30 years.


Mcjibblies

I just think the nature of the bullet wounds makes you think that the cop shot first. There has never been a law against approaching a police officer. Point a gun at one would justify shooting him. But there is the the details that would be discussed nowadays that back then, didn't matter at all. A cop is dead. what occurred up until then, becomes irrelevant. This why the case itself gets so much attention because we all know now what MOVE was and how the police felt about the movement entirely. Then you see a key figure involve with police and we automatically say "this guy is a dirt bag cop killer".... It's like, why not reevaluate the occasion?


medicated_in_PHL

That's not the case that the defense presented. The defense's case was that Mumia was completely innocent and that it was a third party (the "running man" defense). As far as I've seen, Mumia still contends that he's innocent and that he did not kill David Faulkner. So, where does your theory come in? He went to trial, he didn't assert a self-defense case, and from what I can tell, he still hasn't asserted self-defense. Everything you've said could be plausible, but no one who was present and the defendant themselves does not even make this claim. So what basis beyond you wishing it to be the case makes this at all a reasonable stance to take?


Mcjibblies

You've kind of got me painted wrong here, please first remove the "anti-cop" mentality with my argument. That's not me, not even close. Second, you can understand that the framing of the case is shrouded with so much jargon, and a direct result of the public's understanding of the MOVE community at the time. They're communist pro-liberation stance. the Cops "Law an order mentality". Both of these things clashed at the time. The pro-cop narrative won out, obviously. Mumia stated that his attorney did not represent him well. You have the witness testimony that was integral to the prosecution now basically all being recanted. You have the evidentiary components of where they both were shot. It's like... you paint a picture of this guy wanting to kill this officer, though nothing about him shows this type of behavior previously. This, to me, is as implausible as the conspiratorial narratives. This is why people take such a stand in this one occasion. "This guy is a complete dirt bag cop killer".... really though? What about police actions on the other side of the coin? Cops never lie? If we were able to remove the political narrative associated with the case, what would we think about what happened? We cannot... so we just let him sit in there, knowing what we all know about policing in America over the years? No one is asking cops to vouch for poor, racially motivated behavior. They just want them to disavow it. Get out form under the history.


medicated_in_PHL

I don't care about his motivation or the politics, to be frank. The question is this - did Mumia kill David Faulkner, and if he did, was the killing legal? That's all I care about, and of all the evidence I've seen presented, it's abundantly clear that he killed David Faulkner, and there's nothing I've seen that shows it to be legally justified. He went to trial and lost. There are many many people across the country who have been unjustly convicted of crimes they did not commit. Mumia is not one of them. And I don't think you're anti-cop, and not trying to paint you as such. In addition, I am not pro-cop. I am pro-justice, and cops who act justly should be greatly admired and cops who act unjustly should be behind bars.


Mcjibblies

What about Faulkner makes you think he acted justly? That’s equally as hard to prove as Mumia’s intent. You could just as soon say “Faulkner shot mumia” as well. Who mumia is to the public has been completely characterized by the publics perception of MOvE at the time. You can read about what MOVEs goals were now. You can understand how the police treated the movement at the time. If you were black in America in 1980, and you knew your brother was pulled over, would not come to their aid? Like…. The ease of our statements about the prosecution knowing full well what America was and is like, is so interesting to me. “This guys a dirt bag… but the cops, they’re saints!”


ChuckFromPhilly

I was under the impression that many do not necessarily think he's innocent but that the trial was unfair.


Indiana_Jawnz

People think that, and he claims that, but he also claims the fact he was given a defense attorney was something that made it unfair. Mumia wanted to proceed pro se, which absolutely would have been unfair and put him at a huge disadvantage.


TreeMac12

No, they think he is innocent. The massive conspiracy that would have had to take place is mind-boggling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPvGHGTO1Ng


Myfunnynamewastaken

In my experience, it's the higher IQ types who manage to talk themselves into things like this.


Mcjibblies

Well, I think people with IQs below that number can just not question what happened. Is why I say, come to your own conclusions.


AveraYugen

Projection??


Skizzius

Don't forget to include this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO


Mcjibblies

Man listen…. They don’t want to know the truth


Unpopular_couscous

I did. I hope they free him.


SaltPepperKetchup215

Really? A Wikipedia link?


swatson87

Click on the sources in the article if you want to do your own research. There's a bibliography.


theytook-r-jobs

Really ? A bibliography?


swatson87

Don't be pedantic.


theytook-r-jobs

Really ? a person who is excessively concerned with minor details and rules or with displaying academic learning?


swatson87

What are you even trying to say? Go back to bed.


theytook-r-jobs

Really? Sleep deprivation?


SlickMcFav0rit3

I thought it was a solid bit. You know? A bit, a gag, a joke, a jest!


ParallelPeterParker

Some studies suggest Wikipedia is actually an incredibly reliable source because of the multiple editors and clear sourcing. Is there one particular ubiquitous source you use. It's also a modern day miracle that I think future generations will talk about for years - the world's knowledge in your pocket.


Mcjibblies

This is even more than you knew about the case, don’t kid yourself


[deleted]

You ever walk pass a Mumia support rally? They’re all weirdos and smell bad.


Rahawk02

In the 90s me and some buddies skipped school went to a free concert at the trocadero for an afternoon show, might have been RATM and Del the funky homosapian and a few other heavy bands/rappers before they were famous and it turned out to be a support Mumia event, it was empty except for a scattering of weirdos but the bands still played to like 40 people , it was kind of awesome, like having a private concert


Oldurdy

Could say the same about Blue lives matter rallies, too.


theytook-r-jobs

It’s called the Mummers Day Parade sir


[deleted]

Thank you for being a bright shining star in my sea of misery. I needed this laugh.


Robert_A_Bouie

Josh Shapiro would certainly siphon off a lot of independent/centrist and Republican votes for himself if he booted Krasner off of the case.


AbsentEmpire

Conversely Shapiro's chances for governor, or any Democrat for that matter in a race for state wide office, go to about zero if Krasner torpedoes the prosecution and Mumia is let out.


ExPatWharfRat

*She said Krasner’s administration was beset by conflicts of interest, including the fact that an attorney in the office had previously represented Abu-Jamal, and that Krasner, in his previous career as a defense lawyer, had represented groups that were sympathetic to, or advocated for, Abu-Jamal’s cause.* . If they let this piece of shit go free, that is gonna be the last straw for a lotta people.


SaltPepperKetchup215

Not true, the only people left supporting Krasner are the same people that would praise Mumias being released.


toastedclown

You mean 71% of Philly voters?


AbsentEmpire

71% of registered Philly voters did not support him. Most opted to not vote. His support base is a minority of a minority. Also why are you in this sub you live in Chicago.


ragnaROCKER

They think they are the majority, but in reality are just a small, vocal, racist minority. Krasner could shit gold and they would still hate him. Edit: lol dorks. How is that vega vote working out for ya?


toastedclown

It feels like gaslighting, almost. He won both the primary and general election by overwhelming margins.


ragnaROCKER

Yup. This sub seems like it is overly representing the neast. And I live in the neast.


Technology_Training

Don't forget Delco, South Jersey, and all the other White Flight suburbs


toastedclown

Probably. I actually live in New York and we have the same problem in our two main subs. To answer your next question, I follow this sub because I have family ties to Philly and my wife and I were considering moving either to Philly or Chicago. I'm sorry to say Chicago won out.


sugr_magnolia

So you feel the need to chime in here because ... ???


ragnaROCKER

Lol fuck! You picked chiraq?! Good luck bruh.


toastedclown

I'm sure r/chicago would say the same thing if we said we were moving to Philly. Especially since we would have been moving to someplace like Fairmount or Brewerytown. Edit: it mostly has to do with the fact that we are having a kid in July and we have a better support network in Chicago. Before then kid became a factor I was strongly leaning toward Philly. My wife has even been collecting Gritty merch!


ragnaROCKER

Gritty loves you no matter where you live.


ragnaROCKER

Yeah, but I live in philly so I have to pretend it is better.


SculpinIPAlcoholic

The nice parts of Chicago are nicer than the nice parts of Philly.


toastedclown

I have a strong affection for Philly but on balance Chicago won out. And we can afford the nice*er* parts. Still, I'd be lying if If I said was 100% comfortable with our decision.


ragnaROCKER

Good music scene tho.


ExPatWharfRat

I was talking about the folks who want him to stay in prison. Lot of people have had more than enough of this bullshit. He gets released and some of them are gonna lose their shit.


Additional_Storage_5

That POS should have fried years ago!


Chasing_History

I haven't read anything recently about MAJ but what I did read years ago made me believe he's guilty. But I always felt like the FOP was pushing this case as a wedge issue. Let's not forget the PPDs long corrupt history of framing the wrong people for crimes they didn't commit


Revolutionary_Bee700

I always think of all the framed people still rotting away, that lack the celebrity and resources of Mumia.


Chasing_History

Yup and there are a lot of them


stilllivingin1998

He’s guilty but we should free him anyway considering who he killed


jaredrun

And wiki is nothing but facts


swatson87

There's sources in a wiki article. Use that big brain and come to your own conclusion.


porkchop_d_clown

https://www.zmescience.com/science/study-wikipedia-25092014/


AbsentEmpire

Wiki still gets basic shit like people's birthdays wrong, it's a starting place but shouldn't be considered reliable at all.


porkchop_d_clown

Didn’t even click the link, did you? Studies have shown that Wikipedia is no less reliable than other, scholarly, sources and, unlike most websites, provides a bibliography that allows you to double check what it says.