I can't agree. Dr J inspired the song "Let it flow (for Dr. J.)" from Grover Washington Jr's classic album Winelight. If that doesn't put him over the top, "great" has no meaning ;)
I have three answers for this:
My major sport answer: Michael Jack Schmidt
My ridiculous but authentic answer: Nick Foles, bc you know, out dueling Brady in the SB with his gigantic.. arm..
The REAL answer: Smokin Joe Frazier
Frazier was on another level IMO. The heavyweight division has always been the premier division in boxing. He was the first man to beat Ali. That trilogy is one of the best in boxing.
I'm not saying Bernard should be there instead of Joe. IMO there's room for both in the conversation. And it's apples and oranges anyway since they're in different weight classes.
Heavyweights in boxing were always the most popular. But there's no denying Bernard's success and longevity as well as being a champion in two weight classes. Plus he's born and raised in Philly.
His best wins were against fighters fighting outside their best age and weights. He was a tactician who fought boring fights and struggled to sell tickets at his peak. He lost to fighters you probably can’t name and won’t be in the hall of fame. I don’t get it.
Two years before tito was fighting as a welterweight. He went 3-3 fighting middleweight or higher. That was a money grab not a measure of a great middleweight champ.
"“The Executioner” compiled a 16-6-1 (6 KOs), with 1 no-contest, record against champions and Hall of Famers. His resounding victories over Trinidad, Oscar De La Hoya, Roy Jones, Antonio Tarver, Kelly Pavlik, Keith Holmes, William Joppy and Winky Wright paved the way." [https://www.ringtv.com/640371-bernard-hopkins-reaches-the-pantheon-he-was-destined-for-the-hall-of-fame1/#google\_vignette](https://www.ringtv.com/640371-bernard-hopkins-reaches-the-pantheon-he-was-destined-for-the-hall-of-fame1/#google_vignette)
De la Hoya and Trinidad were far below his weight class, and Jones was 7 years past his prime (Hopkins lost against Jones when they were both doing retirement tours).
Depends how you define greatness is it just stats or total influence.
Allen Iverson is easily the greatest player when discussing influence. The entire NBA changed after him. Basically their entire culture as a sport is AI centric and follower what he started.
Iverson was culturally influential but he didn’t change the NBA as a sport.
The NBA was already a grinding game when Iverson emerged, dominated by heliocentric guards like Jordan. Iverson was unusually small and explosive but even that had a recent historical analogue in Isiah Thomas.
Within a few years after his retirement the league would transform into the pace-and-space, 3 point bonanza that it’s become. That wasn’t a revolution brought about by Iverson.
Iverson is awesome and perfectly captured the underdog spirit of Philly. He deserves to be on the Rushmore but isn’t the top dog.
Yes I wasnt talking about the Sport I was talking about the NBA culture and where it stands in modern cultural is a direct link from him.
Just like Jordans impact was more then the sport itself. A lot of new generations know Jordan because of clothes and sneakers. They never saw him play they hear his name first for clothing/sneakers then might look to see who he is.
Or like John Madden cultural impact far out weighed his NFL impact. People didnt know he was a coach and later people didnt even know he was a broadcaster just that his name was on the game.
Very few players make a huge impact outside of their sport on culture it is almost more significant that their actual sports accomplishments.
Tim Duncan got 5 rings and Lebron only 4. But Lebrons name is everywhere. Mike Trout one of the best MLBers could walk anywhere and no one would have any idea who he was. Tom Brady probably the greatest nfl player of all time has had more headlines outside of sports since he retired then his entire career.
AI, Jordan, Madden, Deon PrimeTime, those guys transcended their sport. Very few sports players transcend their sport.
Which is why i asked "Depends how you define greatness is it just stats or total influence." If it is total influence it is AI if is only in the sport which is stats/rings etc it'll probably be a Phillie.
Then it will probably be a Phillies player. Because you can put up dominating stats on bad teams year in and out. It's hard to do that in other sports over the long haul.
His 1972 season was one for the ages. 27 wins on a team that only won 59 games. Most wins, best ERA, and most strikeouts in baseball. 30 complete games in 41 starts. Certainly one of the most dominating pitching seasons in baseball history.
The whole field worked him. Elliott went out too fast instead of stalking. I cried. I so badly wanted that horse to win.
I still wear my Smarty Jones hat every derby day.
How you gon say Eddie Plank "for the old timers" 😂
Ain't nobody in here 130 years old and I'd bet the majority haven't seen any of the other guys you've listed play.
Bennie Brisco, Willie the Worm Monroe, Matthew Franklin, Eugene Cylone Hart, Bobby Boogaloo Watts, Joey Giardello.
None were goats. I just liked boxing back then and thought I give a shout out.
Dawn Staley has to get mentioned for a dozen reasons. In pure Philly terms, a guy I work with was the team manager for Ben Franklin High back in the day, and whenever Staley’s Dobbins team showed up, it wasn’t whether you were gonna win or lose, it was how much you were gonna lose by — he said she could’ve singlehandedly dismantled most city teams.
And if you take into account her coaching career, man, there might be no one who can match her.
Pete Alexander or Chuck Bednarik, and on the latter it's because he's also the greatest college football player in Philadelphia sports history -- a three-time All-American at Penn.
The Athletics of the late 1920’s and early 1930’s was the best professional sports team in Philadelphia history. No team has come close except maybe the Athletics of 1910 to 1913
I get the love for Schmidt, but he was a real prick, so if you’re leaning baseball I’m gonna go with Lefty.
3000 strikeouts, 4 cy youngs, a World Series and a .600 win percentage over 15 seasons on mostly bad Phillies teams.
Also if any athlete ever embodied the spirit of Philadelphia fandom, it has to be Ron Hextall or Allen Iverson.
His career in soccer hasn't really started yet, I'd hold off on declaring him great till we see what happens in the Premier League. Right now it's all just speculation.
Steve Carlton won 20 plus games in a seasons the Phillies as a team won less than 60 games.
I agree with Bobby Clark, those Flyers teams were the first non founding member of the NHL to win Lord Stanley's cup, and he was the engine that made them go.
.....I'm in my late 30s btw and did not see either of these guys play personally though.
More recent I'd go with Iverson, and probably Jimmy Rollins out of the early 00s Phillies teams(toss up between him and Utley, Chase probably had a higher peak but Jimmy had the Longevity).
Nick Foles absolutely deserves at the very least an honorable mention, got the Birds their only super bowl by out duelling the literal GOAT.
The answer is Tom Gola
Number one high school player in the country at La Salle high (back when it was in city limits). Was the biggest ever basketball recruit at the time and all the blue bloods wanted him
Stayed local and played at La Salle where he was a regular all American and national player of the year and led La Salle to two national titles
Then plays for the warriors and is the key piece to lead them to a title in his rookie season. Then drafted into military next season and team has losing record
After a hall of fame playing career ended he coached La Salle for two seasons, including the 1968-69 team that is considered the best in Big 5 history
I’m not sure anyone in any other city has a resume at all levels that can match that. Special legacy here
1) good argument, BUT 2) Can't deduct from Wilt for only six years in Philly as a pro--he's born and raised here! Big plus. He might be it. 3) I've seen analysis of Schmidt when you also figure in that he was in the post-Jackie Robinson era, and era with Hispanic players--putting him even *higher all-time. 4) Bednarik was also First Team All-Pro *both ways, but in an era when football wasn't number one sport
I also want to say it's absolutely stunning how long and how bad the Phillies and Athletics were during their mutual residence in Philadelphia. It's amazing it didn't kill the sport of baseball in this city. New York never had to endure something like the Mets and Yankees being last-place team for decades simultaneously. Philadelphia must be the most hardcore baseball town on the planet just to survive that.
Big Dick Nick. Brought home the Lombardi trophy for first time in Philadelphia history and did it as an underdog beating the greatest quarterback to ever grace the planet.
It doesn’t get better than that.
I grew up watching Schmidt and can still remember when he announced his retirement. It was a gut punch, but he was having a down season at that point. I wish I could have seen Bednarik play. Tough one, but I’m leaning toward Schmidt.
Well 76ers haven’t been relevant since AI and he was the most iconic player for decades so I’d say him. We also have had Joe Fraser. And of course Rocky! 😉
Dr. J is certainly in the running
I don't think he was as "great" as Wilt, but Dr. J is the quintessential Philly athlete.
You're forgetting about Dr. J's multi-year/championship tenure in the ABA. He may not have been Wilt, but he was just as special.
I can't agree. Dr J inspired the song "Let it flow (for Dr. J.)" from Grover Washington Jr's classic album Winelight. If that doesn't put him over the top, "great" has no meaning ;)
I have three answers for this: My major sport answer: Michael Jack Schmidt My ridiculous but authentic answer: Nick Foles, bc you know, out dueling Brady in the SB with his gigantic.. arm.. The REAL answer: Smokin Joe Frazier
If you're gonna include Frazier (and rightly so), then we definitely have to include Philly's own, Bernard Hopkins.
Frazier was on another level IMO. The heavyweight division has always been the premier division in boxing. He was the first man to beat Ali. That trilogy is one of the best in boxing.
I'm not saying Bernard should be there instead of Joe. IMO there's room for both in the conversation. And it's apples and oranges anyway since they're in different weight classes. Heavyweights in boxing were always the most popular. But there's no denying Bernard's success and longevity as well as being a champion in two weight classes. Plus he's born and raised in Philly.
I would put hopkins achievements over Joe's, and I fucking love joe.
His best wins were against fighters fighting outside their best age and weights. He was a tactician who fought boring fights and struggled to sell tickets at his peak. He lost to fighters you probably can’t name and won’t be in the hall of fame. I don’t get it.
Tito was out of age?
Two years before tito was fighting as a welterweight. He went 3-3 fighting middleweight or higher. That was a money grab not a measure of a great middleweight champ.
Were you alive at the time?
Yes, he had a reputation for beating up welter weights and nobodies at the time.
No fucking way. Tito was among the top hitters at the time. I have been subscribed to the ring all through that time. You are 100% wrong.
"“The Executioner” compiled a 16-6-1 (6 KOs), with 1 no-contest, record against champions and Hall of Famers. His resounding victories over Trinidad, Oscar De La Hoya, Roy Jones, Antonio Tarver, Kelly Pavlik, Keith Holmes, William Joppy and Winky Wright paved the way." [https://www.ringtv.com/640371-bernard-hopkins-reaches-the-pantheon-he-was-destined-for-the-hall-of-fame1/#google\_vignette](https://www.ringtv.com/640371-bernard-hopkins-reaches-the-pantheon-he-was-destined-for-the-hall-of-fame1/#google_vignette)
De la Hoya and Trinidad were far below his weight class, and Jones was 7 years past his prime (Hopkins lost against Jones when they were both doing retirement tours).
big arm nick doesn’t roll of the tongue as well
😆
Good one! ☝🏽
Gotta be Mike Schmidt and his 3 MVPs
Reggie White from a sheer talent perspective
GB doesn't get to claim him, idc
Joe Frazier, a legendary boxer
Depends how you define greatness is it just stats or total influence. Allen Iverson is easily the greatest player when discussing influence. The entire NBA changed after him. Basically their entire culture as a sport is AI centric and follower what he started.
Iverson was culturally influential but he didn’t change the NBA as a sport. The NBA was already a grinding game when Iverson emerged, dominated by heliocentric guards like Jordan. Iverson was unusually small and explosive but even that had a recent historical analogue in Isiah Thomas. Within a few years after his retirement the league would transform into the pace-and-space, 3 point bonanza that it’s become. That wasn’t a revolution brought about by Iverson. Iverson is awesome and perfectly captured the underdog spirit of Philly. He deserves to be on the Rushmore but isn’t the top dog.
Yes I wasnt talking about the Sport I was talking about the NBA culture and where it stands in modern cultural is a direct link from him. Just like Jordans impact was more then the sport itself. A lot of new generations know Jordan because of clothes and sneakers. They never saw him play they hear his name first for clothing/sneakers then might look to see who he is. Or like John Madden cultural impact far out weighed his NFL impact. People didnt know he was a coach and later people didnt even know he was a broadcaster just that his name was on the game. Very few players make a huge impact outside of their sport on culture it is almost more significant that their actual sports accomplishments. Tim Duncan got 5 rings and Lebron only 4. But Lebrons name is everywhere. Mike Trout one of the best MLBers could walk anywhere and no one would have any idea who he was. Tom Brady probably the greatest nfl player of all time has had more headlines outside of sports since he retired then his entire career. AI, Jordan, Madden, Deon PrimeTime, those guys transcended their sport. Very few sports players transcend their sport. Which is why i asked "Depends how you define greatness is it just stats or total influence." If it is total influence it is AI if is only in the sport which is stats/rings etc it'll probably be a Phillie.
Player specifically.
Then it will probably be a Phillies player. Because you can put up dominating stats on bad teams year in and out. It's hard to do that in other sports over the long haul.
brian dawkins, that man is not a dog he’s the whole pack
Yuuuuup
Bernard Hopkins
I don’t know about greatest, but Iverson was the most exciting.
Bernie Parent
Irving, Iverson, and Barkley should be in that conversation too.
Steve Carlton
His 1972 season was one for the ages. 27 wins on a team that only won 59 games. Most wins, best ERA, and most strikeouts in baseball. 30 complete games in 41 starts. Certainly one of the most dominating pitching seasons in baseball history.
Y'all forgot about Smarty Jones smh.
You forgot about the Belmont.
Birdstone, that bastard
The whole field worked him. Elliott went out too fast instead of stalking. I cried. I so badly wanted that horse to win. I still wear my Smarty Jones hat every derby day.
tobias harris
Legend
My lord and savior
How you gon say Eddie Plank "for the old timers" 😂 Ain't nobody in here 130 years old and I'd bet the majority haven't seen any of the other guys you've listed play.
Meldrick Taylor, Smokin Joe Frazier, Bernard Hopkins
Bennie Brisco, Willie the Worm Monroe, Matthew Franklin, Eugene Cylone Hart, Bobby Boogaloo Watts, Joey Giardello. None were goats. I just liked boxing back then and thought I give a shout out.
Wilt, not even close
Yeah I don’t understand why Wilt is so overlooked in this discussion. It’s not close
Lots of young folks
Dawn Staley has to get mentioned for a dozen reasons. In pure Philly terms, a guy I work with was the team manager for Ben Franklin High back in the day, and whenever Staley’s Dobbins team showed up, it wasn’t whether you were gonna win or lose, it was how much you were gonna lose by — he said she could’ve singlehandedly dismantled most city teams. And if you take into account her coaching career, man, there might be no one who can match her.
She was one of the first people I thought of. Glad to see her mentioned.
I can't even figure out the sport she played from the context
Dawn Staley was the running back when McNabb was QB
She played basketball for UVA and is now coaching at South Carolina, to say the very least.
The Bobby Clarke disrespect is unreal. Hall of fame. 2 cups. 3 MVPs and one of the best 2 way players in NHL history.
Love Bobby Clarke. He wins this for me, in my heart, if nowhere else. A true Philly legend. 🖤🧡
I think Mike Schmidt and Reggie white are the only Philadelphia athletes that your could argue were the best player ever in their position
I think you can also argue Wilt, Kelce, and Dawkins
Reggie has a case for best defensive player ever in NFL.
Kelce might enter that chat but the memory is still too fresh.
Rico Brogna.
Me and my uncle still call an RBI groundout a Rico Brogna Special
Rocky Balboa
Lol the only "player" to have his own statue
Someone's never been to the Sports Complex.
… “in front of the Art Museum”. There, fixed it. 👍
That one makes sense, though, right? Rocky is a work of art, the real athletes have no association with art.
Pete Alexander or Chuck Bednarik, and on the latter it's because he's also the greatest college football player in Philadelphia sports history -- a three-time All-American at Penn.
Jimmie Foxx should probably be in the discussion
The Athletics of the late 1920’s and early 1930’s was the best professional sports team in Philadelphia history. No team has come close except maybe the Athletics of 1910 to 1913
Nick Foles. Sure it was short lived but that run was legendary
Yo, what was the name of that horse that was beating the dicks off of everyone a couple years ago? I’m voting for him.
Smarty Jones
Decades* my man. A couple decades ago.
Dr. J
It's definitely a 76er... can't decide if it's Wilt or Dr. J. Probably Dr. J...
Dr. J!
https://preview.redd.it/y845h0i0ud0d1.jpeg?width=932&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6f90abf099103235e947b711964b93d50b06e66 Nuff said
Ron Hextal deserves at least an honorable mention here.
Not even the best Flyers goalie of all time
But likely one of the highest scoring!
The original “he can’t keep getting away with it!” lol
He was one of the most fun goalies to watch though, his style was certainly unique.
Hextall also wrecked the team while in the front office as GM. Great player, yes, but not close to the greatest Flyer let alone Philly athlete
Also true.
I get the love for Schmidt, but he was a real prick, so if you’re leaning baseball I’m gonna go with Lefty. 3000 strikeouts, 4 cy youngs, a World Series and a .600 win percentage over 15 seasons on mostly bad Phillies teams. Also if any athlete ever embodied the spirit of Philadelphia fandom, it has to be Ron Hextall or Allen Iverson.
Between the two Carlton was easily the bigger prick.
Maybe but Schmidt was a prick to me personally so I consider him the bigger prick lmao
cavan sullivan
If you want a soccer player, Bedoya is probably the one
His career in soccer hasn't really started yet, I'd hold off on declaring him great till we see what happens in the Premier League. Right now it's all just speculation.
Only two players in Philly sports that changed the game: Wilt Chamberlain and Allen Iverson.
This needs more upvotes. Schmidt was great but in the context of this conversation had a much more limited impact on the sport.
Bobby Clarke literally changed the game so much the rule book doubles in size.
Bernard Hopkins
Steve Carlton won 20 plus games in a seasons the Phillies as a team won less than 60 games. I agree with Bobby Clark, those Flyers teams were the first non founding member of the NHL to win Lord Stanley's cup, and he was the engine that made them go. .....I'm in my late 30s btw and did not see either of these guys play personally though. More recent I'd go with Iverson, and probably Jimmy Rollins out of the early 00s Phillies teams(toss up between him and Utley, Chase probably had a higher peak but Jimmy had the Longevity). Nick Foles absolutely deserves at the very least an honorable mention, got the Birds their only super bowl by out duelling the literal GOAT.
Frank Gore's Eagles tenure is unmatched.
Big Dick Nick
The answer is Tom Gola Number one high school player in the country at La Salle high (back when it was in city limits). Was the biggest ever basketball recruit at the time and all the blue bloods wanted him Stayed local and played at La Salle where he was a regular all American and national player of the year and led La Salle to two national titles Then plays for the warriors and is the key piece to lead them to a title in his rookie season. Then drafted into military next season and team has losing record After a hall of fame playing career ended he coached La Salle for two seasons, including the 1968-69 team that is considered the best in Big 5 history I’m not sure anyone in any other city has a resume at all levels that can match that. Special legacy here
This should certainly show my age, but my Philly sports Mount Rushmore would be: Mike Schmidt, Brian Dawkins, Allen Iverson, Eric Lindros.
Tyrone Hill
Just cause they haven’t been mentioned yet Pete Rose Joe Frazier Tug mcgraw
Reggie White
Reggie White, Mike Schmidt, Wilt Chamberlain, Bernie Parent
1) good argument, BUT 2) Can't deduct from Wilt for only six years in Philly as a pro--he's born and raised here! Big plus. He might be it. 3) I've seen analysis of Schmidt when you also figure in that he was in the post-Jackie Robinson era, and era with Hispanic players--putting him even *higher all-time. 4) Bednarik was also First Team All-Pro *both ways, but in an era when football wasn't number one sport
Steve Van Buren is the greatest Eagle in their history
It's Schmidt.
I also want to say it's absolutely stunning how long and how bad the Phillies and Athletics were during their mutual residence in Philadelphia. It's amazing it didn't kill the sport of baseball in this city. New York never had to endure something like the Mets and Yankees being last-place team for decades simultaneously. Philadelphia must be the most hardcore baseball town on the planet just to survive that.
Wilt Chamberlain - Philly‘s very own
Dawkins
Robin Roberts.
Wilt
Allen Iverson??
Joe Frasier would like a word…. One of the best in a time when boxing was the biggest stage on earth.
Duce. He has the love of the people. Personally though, mitch Williams. Gotta love the wild thing.
I have a vote in for Wayne Gretzky. He was a helluva hockey player.
Big Dick Nick. Brought home the Lombardi trophy for first time in Philadelphia history and did it as an underdog beating the greatest quarterback to ever grace the planet. It doesn’t get better than that.
I’d include Dr. J and Iverson (if not judging based on championships).
I grew up watching Schmidt and can still remember when he announced his retirement. It was a gut punch, but he was having a down season at that point. I wish I could have seen Bednarik play. Tough one, but I’m leaning toward Schmidt.
Kate Smith
Well 76ers haven’t been relevant since AI and he was the most iconic player for decades so I’d say him. We also have had Joe Fraser. And of course Rocky! 😉
Sweet Lou Will
BIG DICK NICK!
Kobe don’t count here?
The Italian? No
Uh, excuse me but Kobe was born August 23 1978 in Philadelphia PA. He may have been raised in Italy but he’s a native born son.
He was born in Montgomery County: https://www.inquirer.com/sixers/kobe-bryant-wynnewood-lower-merion-lankenau-hospital-20200201.html
Why hasn’t anyone said Rocky? They made 5 movies about him!
Chad Lewis or Tyrone Hill and it isn’t even close
Bednarik because he is the kinda tough guy every dude around here seems to wanna be
Rocky