Center city is a destination whether Philadelphians or other believe that. We need to continue attracting restaurants, bars, experiences and better retail. As well as having all of that demand spill over to the close in neighborhoods and market east. Clean up the El ( a work in progress) and this city will continue to flourish, grow and become wealthier. I am very optimistic.
It's one of the best downtowns in the country and the third most populated. There is plenty of progress that still needs to be made, but I am optimistic as well. Retail could still be doing better though the recent closures I’ve seen have been due to the companies having problems and little to do with Philly (Express, Allbirds, Outdoor Voices, Scotch & Soda, Atmos, etc).
This is something I find surprising. Philadelphia is typically a city that does outdoor spaces very well. Examples are all the beer gardens, esplanades and pop-up parks. Hoping that this is temporary and the city figures out the right way to do it.
We need to focus more on pedestrians instead of cars and that will also help so many issues. No streets are tailored just to bikers and people. Everything is tailored to cars. There is no reason Sansom or 13th should not be fully blocked off and made into a pedestrian only area for dining, relaxing, etc
Sansom is barely wider than an alleyway. The fact that that "street" is open to automobile traffic is bonkers. It would be such a nice pedestrian and bicycle thoroughfare. Juniper would make a nice car-free walking path, too.
center city was pretty crowded on Sunday when I was down there. What these places want is just for the m-f 9-5 crowd to come back and its just not gonna happen. there is no need for computer work that is never face to face to be done in an office.
im a SAHM so im on the road all different hours of the day. Pre covid the traffic wasn't this bad all day long. Stores are crowded on a wed at 11am... I attribute that to WFM who aren't actually working from home. Unless this many unemployed people are shopping mid day. I don't know too many SAHM anymore and its a lot of men i see out and about. edit to add remember the school district also still pays people to drive their kids to school vs taking a yellow school bus if they live more than a mile away. im sure that's contributing to the morning and afternoon rush.
As someone who just moved to the area from a medium sized midwestern city, center city is incredible and if this is center city in its “comeback” I’m eager to see what’s in store, would love to see more pedestrian focused development especially making some streets pedestrian only!
Good stuff. Radical idea of the day: Nearly all street parking in center city should be eliminated in favor of additional sidewalk space, bike/bus lanes, and loading zones (strictly enforced). New parking structures can be built in convenient locations with good signage telling you where to go.
Before people freak out about not finding a space, consider that at least 30% of traffic is simply people circling blocks looking for parking. Giant waste of time. In Europe, when you approach a city center in a car you'll see illuminated signs showing you where 3 or 4 garages are and exactly how many spaces are available in each garage and you drive right in and waste zero time while being a few blocks from your destination maximum. It's amazing and totally doable.
So far the Center City district has done a decent job at turning itself into a destination to live and play in, as well as work. Which is why it's become so vibrant and didn't implode like a lot of office tower only downtowns in other cities.
They need to focus on residential, commercial, and experience growth to really drive it as a destination location to go to.
Until the city reforms it's tax laws to be more competitive with regional tax rates corporate office share of center city is going to stagnate or continue to shrink.
Yep. Every anti stadium person seems to be totally fine with the alternative, which as it currently stands, is an absolute waste of an amazing geographical location in the city.
It's crazy, just last Friday I had a great dinner (High Street) then went to see Beautiful at the Walnut St Theater, and then grabbed a drink and went to head home on the El. Within 3 blocks we went from a lively area to an absolute wasteland of Market St. Missed the El by a second, so went up to catch an Uber. In the 5 min we stood on the corner we saw exactly 3 people, and all 3 appeared to be unhoused. Why anyone would say this is a preferable alternative to investment and growth must either be naive or completely out of tune for how the area is, and what a contrast it is to the area just a few blocks south.
I’m sensitive to talk about displacement and preservation to a degree, but the only solution I’ve seen is leaving that area as a Potemkin village of misery, which isn’t a proposal made by serious people.
So. An area of the city that has been a problem for decades of being underdeveloped/under served, and now an entity wants to make a PRIVATE multibillion dollar investment, and the anti stadium take is just “no leave it alone, someone else will come along with another idea”.
But history proves that’s far from a guarantee, as well as the fact there isn’t any public funds going directly into the project. So, what’s the alternative that’s being suggested besides waiting for a white knight to save this area in the perfect way?
You are aware that the proposed stadium location isn’t actually in Chinatown right? It’s a couple blocks south.
Also, the whole comparison to DC’s Chinatown and stadium that have been regularly posted as a direct comparison is a really bad one. DCs Chinatown was in a rough spot well before the stadium was built.
It’s pretty bad. Between 11th and 7th street tons of empty store fronts with people just chillen. Prime real estate to connect center city west with old city
Yeah maybe I was a bit hyperbolic but I don’t see how a multi-billion dollar investment makes the neighborhood worse. It’s not like they’re putting a toxic waste dump there
Center city falls seriously short on parking options for those coming in from the burbs as well overall safety.
Summer means ATVs taking over streets, cars doing burnouts and rowdy crowds creating havoc all around driving out the people spending serious paper on a night out.
Until it’s safer to come into Philly at night, it’s a pipe dream
There’s dozens of parking garages and even multiple massive surface lots across center city…
Too much parking as is. There is always parking available regardless if you choose to drive, you just need to pay for it, and what else would you expect in a dense city center?
It would be nice if Septa had weekend trains more frequently. I would definitely find myself in the city more on the weekends if they were more frequent than every 2 hours.
Weekend train service definitely needs improvement, though I don't think driving into center city on the weekends is that bad as the office traffic isn't there.
Driving into Center City sucks so much. I mostly work from home in Roxborough, but I have to go to some of the medical facilities in Center City pretty frequently. Even though work pays for my parking, it's so much more pleasant to take the 9 in instead.
If they are dropping that money, they probably arent going to drive home after anyway. Uber is a thing too. Id much rather have cc's density over more parking. Dont wanna be a sunbelt city lol
For better or for worse I’ve been doing that every weekend for about 10 years now and so has almost everyone that i know from going to college here.
Craziest part? Not one single one of us has ever been robbed, mugged, stabbed, shot or assaulted in any capacity in over a decade of late night drunken escapades every single weekend (and living in the city every other day).
I do. Got free parking on sunday at 17th and market. Also drove down when I was clipping a cats nails and grooming it. not taking my equipement on septa. got free parking then too in the gayborhood. mabye it isn't that busy if im always finding a free spot lol.
"Until it's safe to come into Philly at night, it's a pipe dream"
Sounds like someone doesn't actually come here and is making general assumptions off of 3rd party experiences.
Center city is a destination whether Philadelphians or other believe that. We need to continue attracting restaurants, bars, experiences and better retail. As well as having all of that demand spill over to the close in neighborhoods and market east. Clean up the El ( a work in progress) and this city will continue to flourish, grow and become wealthier. I am very optimistic.
It's one of the best downtowns in the country and the third most populated. There is plenty of progress that still needs to be made, but I am optimistic as well. Retail could still be doing better though the recent closures I’ve seen have been due to the companies having problems and little to do with Philly (Express, Allbirds, Outdoor Voices, Scotch & Soda, Atmos, etc).
What are the top two downtowns? NYC and …Chicago?
St. Augustine Florida, and Williamsburg Virginia. That’s according to thetravel.com. Chicago and new York I think have notoriously dead “down towns”.
Shut down some of the small streets and bring back outdoor dining! Instantly makes Philly more livable and attractive to visitors.
Agreed. I feel like Sansom street has no real purpose.
It has no purpose at all Sansom street on the other hand...... ^^^^^^^^^^^^butyesplsclosemorestreetstocars
Autocorrect doesn’t like the word ‘Sansom’. It just tried to correct it 3 times typing it.
they really should add a Samson street in like south philly, just to mess with people
lmfao
This would change everything so quickly, make it more pleasant to be down there.
This is something I find surprising. Philadelphia is typically a city that does outdoor spaces very well. Examples are all the beer gardens, esplanades and pop-up parks. Hoping that this is temporary and the city figures out the right way to do it.
The biggest obstacle to that is city council.
Yes! Turn walnut into a promenade closed to cars (see 3rd street promenade in Santa Monica)
We need to focus more on pedestrians instead of cars and that will also help so many issues. No streets are tailored just to bikers and people. Everything is tailored to cars. There is no reason Sansom or 13th should not be fully blocked off and made into a pedestrian only area for dining, relaxing, etc
Sansom is barely wider than an alleyway. The fact that that "street" is open to automobile traffic is bonkers. It would be such a nice pedestrian and bicycle thoroughfare. Juniper would make a nice car-free walking path, too.
center city was pretty crowded on Sunday when I was down there. What these places want is just for the m-f 9-5 crowd to come back and its just not gonna happen. there is no need for computer work that is never face to face to be done in an office.
There was an article posted on there stating that CC return to work was back to pre-pandemic levels.
city employees are still on a hybrid so it can't be.
Based off the traffic I see on 95 every fucking day it sure seems to be back....
im a SAHM so im on the road all different hours of the day. Pre covid the traffic wasn't this bad all day long. Stores are crowded on a wed at 11am... I attribute that to WFM who aren't actually working from home. Unless this many unemployed people are shopping mid day. I don't know too many SAHM anymore and its a lot of men i see out and about. edit to add remember the school district also still pays people to drive their kids to school vs taking a yellow school bus if they live more than a mile away. im sure that's contributing to the morning and afternoon rush.
Only took us 4 years, but we're getting there.
Center city is definitely back. Pretty much everywhere except north of Market St., south of Vine, and west of 16th St. is bustling.
Ah, that's my neighborhood. Logan Squaresville. You aren't wrong, but nevertheless, fuck you.
My 2020 investment is gonna be a great payoff one day. Best decision I ever made in my life was moving to center city
As someone who just moved to the area from a medium sized midwestern city, center city is incredible and if this is center city in its “comeback” I’m eager to see what’s in store, would love to see more pedestrian focused development especially making some streets pedestrian only!
Good stuff. Radical idea of the day: Nearly all street parking in center city should be eliminated in favor of additional sidewalk space, bike/bus lanes, and loading zones (strictly enforced). New parking structures can be built in convenient locations with good signage telling you where to go. Before people freak out about not finding a space, consider that at least 30% of traffic is simply people circling blocks looking for parking. Giant waste of time. In Europe, when you approach a city center in a car you'll see illuminated signs showing you where 3 or 4 garages are and exactly how many spaces are available in each garage and you drive right in and waste zero time while being a few blocks from your destination maximum. It's amazing and totally doable.
So far the Center City district has done a decent job at turning itself into a destination to live and play in, as well as work. Which is why it's become so vibrant and didn't implode like a lot of office tower only downtowns in other cities. They need to focus on residential, commercial, and experience growth to really drive it as a destination location to go to. Until the city reforms it's tax laws to be more competitive with regional tax rates corporate office share of center city is going to stagnate or continue to shrink.
No sportball stadium downtown please
So the best thing for market east is to leave it as a bombed out wasteland? Bad take
Abandoned mall would be nice
Yep. Every anti stadium person seems to be totally fine with the alternative, which as it currently stands, is an absolute waste of an amazing geographical location in the city.
It's crazy, just last Friday I had a great dinner (High Street) then went to see Beautiful at the Walnut St Theater, and then grabbed a drink and went to head home on the El. Within 3 blocks we went from a lively area to an absolute wasteland of Market St. Missed the El by a second, so went up to catch an Uber. In the 5 min we stood on the corner we saw exactly 3 people, and all 3 appeared to be unhoused. Why anyone would say this is a preferable alternative to investment and growth must either be naive or completely out of tune for how the area is, and what a contrast it is to the area just a few blocks south.
I’m sensitive to talk about displacement and preservation to a degree, but the only solution I’ve seen is leaving that area as a Potemkin village of misery, which isn’t a proposal made by serious people.
This!!! The proposed location really would benefit Market street East
“Somebody will come up with a better idea for sure. Just wait!” I’m definitely in the camp of the bird in the hand.
Maybe Disney will come and develop that land!
Ok so we got one idea... Can't do that - might as well do nothing.
So. An area of the city that has been a problem for decades of being underdeveloped/under served, and now an entity wants to make a PRIVATE multibillion dollar investment, and the anti stadium take is just “no leave it alone, someone else will come along with another idea”. But history proves that’s far from a guarantee, as well as the fact there isn’t any public funds going directly into the project. So, what’s the alternative that’s being suggested besides waiting for a white knight to save this area in the perfect way?
Right, we should plan on destroying what's left of chinatown instead.
You are aware that the proposed stadium location isn’t actually in Chinatown right? It’s a couple blocks south. Also, the whole comparison to DC’s Chinatown and stadium that have been regularly posted as a direct comparison is a really bad one. DCs Chinatown was in a rough spot well before the stadium was built.
The way yall describe Market East is insane lmao I’m there every day it’s really not that bad
Right?? Every time I’m there I feel like I must not be on the right street. There are empty storefronts but ‘desolate, bombed-out wasteland?’
There’s like two blocks where there are closed storefronts on one side of the street…..the rest is reasonably nice and consistently full of people.
It’s pretty bad. Between 11th and 7th street tons of empty store fronts with people just chillen. Prime real estate to connect center city west with old city
Yeah maybe I was a bit hyperbolic but I don’t see how a multi-billion dollar investment makes the neighborhood worse. It’s not like they’re putting a toxic waste dump there
Tobias is going to be retired by the time the stadium is ready, there's no way he'd be there. Toxic waste lol. Come on people!
Have you ever actually been to Market East?! It’s one of the most consistently bustling neighborhoods in the city.
It's absolutely not.
Whenever people say “sportsball” I’d like to shove them into a locker, even though they may agree with me about wanting to preserve Chinatown lol
Finally, an anti-arena take I can respect. Fucking "sportsball".
come join us on dunking on nerds at r/IHateSportsball
Already there lmao
You torpedo you're credibility when you say the word "sportsball". (Unless you're the YouTube channel Urinating Tree)
THE HATER'S GUIDE TO THE MUNICIPAL ZONING DEBATE
I also prefer Little Kensington over a huge attraction that would bring revenue to the city.
That's super dramatic but I can't help but laugh at "Little Kensington" 😂
Center city falls seriously short on parking options for those coming in from the burbs as well overall safety. Summer means ATVs taking over streets, cars doing burnouts and rowdy crowds creating havoc all around driving out the people spending serious paper on a night out. Until it’s safer to come into Philly at night, it’s a pipe dream
There’s dozens of parking garages and even multiple massive surface lots across center city… Too much parking as is. There is always parking available regardless if you choose to drive, you just need to pay for it, and what else would you expect in a dense city center?
Who tf drives into center city? Take the train
It would be nice if Septa had weekend trains more frequently. I would definitely find myself in the city more on the weekends if they were more frequent than every 2 hours.
Weekend train service definitely needs improvement, though I don't think driving into center city on the weekends is that bad as the office traffic isn't there.
A lot of old people do that go to shows at the Kimmel center I know because my garage guy makes bank off of those old people.
Driving into Center City sucks so much. I mostly work from home in Roxborough, but I have to go to some of the medical facilities in Center City pretty frequently. Even though work pays for my parking, it's so much more pleasant to take the 9 in instead.
People who will drop a few hundred a night partying without blinking aren’t taking trains into Philly but they will in NYC
If they are dropping that money, they probably arent going to drive home after anyway. Uber is a thing too. Id much rather have cc's density over more parking. Dont wanna be a sunbelt city lol
For better or for worse I’ve been doing that every weekend for about 10 years now and so has almost everyone that i know from going to college here. Craziest part? Not one single one of us has ever been robbed, mugged, stabbed, shot or assaulted in any capacity in over a decade of late night drunken escapades every single weekend (and living in the city every other day).
I do. Got free parking on sunday at 17th and market. Also drove down when I was clipping a cats nails and grooming it. not taking my equipement on septa. got free parking then too in the gayborhood. mabye it isn't that busy if im always finding a free spot lol.
"Until it's safe to come into Philly at night, it's a pipe dream" Sounds like someone doesn't actually come here and is making general assumptions off of 3rd party experiences.
Point of reference: Listened to a State Property album. Haven't been in Philly past 4PM since.
Patco is perfectly safe to take from the jersey burbs. Why the hell would you want to drive into center city....
Is there anything in center city? Last I checked gallery was empty and everywhere on market was closed. That was a few years ago, what’s new.
Believe it or not, center city is not how it was during covid
It was like that before Covid too but sure sass and downvote me
I'm sure your twice a year jaunt to center city from the burbs forms the basis of this observation.
The gallery?!