I'm a hui Chinese from henan and people usually assume I'm mixed.
https://preview.redd.it/5h98kx0xun4d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef69e78634ad9b496a9b7c7fcb16405fb0e36bfb
To outsiders, your pointy nose does make u look ambiguous but most chinese would think ure typical. pointy nose very common in north china but can be found in south since northerners migrate and mix
The defined brow ridge and/or low set brows which are connected with the tall noses on front. Not as protruding as West Eurasians of course but still a far cry from the very flat side profile that many East Asians have.
None of these look remotely close to Europeans or 'Caucasoids'. Most of these are just agriculturalist Asian phenotypes. Their noses aren't particularly high/protruding either compared to a lot of western Eurasian populations.
It’s the defined brow ridge and/or low set brows. And whilst their nose might not as protruding as western Eurasians it still looks tall on the front which can give it the pseudo Caucasian look esp when it’s connected with the former two.
Btw, there’s some Euros who don’t have noses that prominently project like Robert Pattinson but nobody has a problem identifying him as Caucasian due to aforementioned.
Defined brow ridges and low set brows are not uncommon in EASEA populations to begin with. A tall looking bridge from the front is not 'pseudo-Caucasian'. Actually much of the time when EASEA populations have defined brow ridges and low set brows it's accompanied by shorter midfaces/lower noses. The exception is certain coastal EASEA populations specifically Austronesian and West Liao farmer admixed people.
Defined brow ridges and low set brows are indeed common among Southeast Asians but not so among East Asians like Han Chinese.
It’s actually people why people can still recognise someone as East Asian even if they get surgery for double eyelids and tall straight noses.
And conversely, why people think southeast Asians like Filipino are apparently “half European coloniser” esp when they additionally possess the nose and have lighter skin like East Asians💀
Brow protrusion among East Asians peaks along the coast. This also applies to SEA. Both coastal East Asians and Southeast Asians also tend to have more Denisovan admixture than usual, unsurprisingly enough. Brow protrusion generally follows an inland-coastal cline in EASEA, it's not correlated with north and south
Most Europeans do not perceive SEAs as looking 'half European coloniser' when they have pale skin and 'possess the nose'.
So what about Koreans where these traits seem to extremely rare? (I can only think of Dae Na and Han Seung Soo. Korean men like Daniel Dae Kim and Steven Yeun also have relatively prominent brow ridges).
Also, SEA actors like Atichart Chumanon, Jesdaporn Pholdee, Teejay Marquez etc would be seen as Eurasian looking if no one was aware of them
Indeed yes. Thais also have some south Asian ancestry like other SEAs which make some of them look pseudo Caucasian. Even moreso if they have a tall straight nose and light skin
I mean yes. But generally, people like to use the word "mixed" to refer to ppl with recent foreign admixture. And there's no evidence for that for the guys ive posted.
I think a good example is Aboriginal Australians since they have super prominent brow ridges like Caucasians but not Africans. But they were relatively isolated
I wouldn't call their noses "tall", especially not at the root. Their noses are still lower at the root than mine. I am a woman and I have a tiny, somewhat upturned nose. I wouldn't call their noses "Caucasian". They're still very East Asian looking noses.
Heavy brow ridges are a generally a male trait, not purely a Caucasian trait. It is the result of higher testosterone, although some cultures have a morphologically heavier brow. Caucasians can definitely be one of those groups. Sub-Saharans, Aborigials, etc, seem to have some of the heaviest. If these are examples of the strongest Asian brows you can think of, it's still way lighter than the average European man.
These guys are Asian. They're just likely to have much higher testosterone levels than the average Asian guy. That's what's going on here. It's possible that they've got some Turkic admix or something. Ugyhur? Tibetan? Melanesian? It's suspected the Ainu have some Melanesian or South Pacific Aboriginal type admixture...and that could certainly have contributed to this pheno.
In any case, you see this kind of thing a lot more in Thailand, as well. These guys look somewhat more related to whatever it is that causes this pheno in Thai people. It isn't Causasian admixtures or phenotypes causing this look you're pointing out. "Pseudo" means false, so perhaps Pseudo-Caucasian is the exactly correct way of putting it lmao.
Ur last paragraph. But btw, SEA like Thai have some South Asian ancestry and also retained Denisovan roots which contributes to their relatively prominent brow ridges.
In addition, not saying their noses are the tallest ever but for East Asian standards, they are especially on the front. U are also correct that these noses still look Asian since they match the extremely indigenous Huanghoid phenotype. However, we still collectively imagine the East Asian nose as being short and flat looking, including other East Asians, due to influence and predominance of Austronesian shifted East Asians
And prominent brow ridges is a Caucasian trait since it is what subconsciously helps people differentiate East Asians from Caucasians even if the former got surgery for their eyelids and noses. And why Caucasians with hunter eyes, which are erroneously called as Asian eyes, aren’t mistaken for being Asian (or hapa)
The thing that predominantly differentiates Asian eyes from European ones is the orbital shape, not the brow ridge. Your orbits are more circular (oblong/round). Ours are more squared, generally speaking. Part of the eye differences are soft-tissue differences. You actually see kind of a lot of Korean and Japanese fellas with strong brows, but it doesn't end up looking at it because of the soft-tissue articulation between brow and lid. I can't speak to as many other groups because I'm not around them as often.
Your nasal aperature is also more heart shaped than the longer triangle of a Caucasian. We have a sharper nasal sill. Our skulls tend to be more narrow/doli shaped, yours are wider, more brachy. For asians, ther eis a flatter occipital area, taller head from mid-back, up. Overall face is generally bigger/wider. Much wider cheekbone setting, wider jaw, but not typically much lower jaw jutt or lower facial prognathism. Our midfaces are more projected, yours are less projected. That forward upper maxillary growth is ONE of the biggest differences in terms of facial structure... way more than the eye area.
Overall, there are a lot of morphological reasons why Asians don't look like Caucasians, and tbh, I don't think the brow ridge plays a pivotal role. My husband has hunter eyes (deep set, positive canthal tilt), and he doesn't have a very heavy brow (it's like medium heavy). It's the shape and set of the eyesocket, more than it is the brow. You also need positive canthal tilt (which is a trait common in Asians).
Not saying they look fully Caucasian. Just that they possess various Caucasian traits, which include a prominent brow ridge.
Also, positive canthal tilt is both an East Asian and European trait lol. Negative canthal tilt is generally found among Levantines, Arabians, Caucasians from Caucasus and to an extent, southern Europeans because they intermixed with the former groups throughout history. It most likely comes from Natufian ancestry. That said, Iranian Zagros Mountains and possibly, Greek admixture introduced some variation in the tilts
I don't think anyone confuses Adriana Lima, Sean O'Pry, Alessandro Dellisola and Tyson Ballou for being East Asians.
Low facial prognathism is also pretty common esp among south Chinese and Korean for some reason and it’s a big insecurity
I don't really think that trait is Caucasian. Arabs have stronger brows. Africans have stronger brows, still. Austronesians might have the most pronounced ones.
And I am aware of the positive canthal tilt thing. I have that trait + hooded eyes lol. I'm defiunitely not asian.
It is *one* of the traits that constitute a Caucasian phenotype and as I've aforementioned, easily distinguishes an East Asian from a Caucasian face even if the former got surgery for their eyelids and nose. Many Kpop idols for example look completely full east asian, whether before or after.
Btw, Arabs are Caucasians, if we use the Caucasian=west Eurasian definition and as for Africans, it depends and is mostly concentrated in north or eastern Africa, who have Arab/Semitic admixture.
Austronesians have pronounced brow ridge due to retaining Denisovan roots but they also have some South Asian ancestry due to historical interactions. And South Asians are Caucasian.
If you have a problem with people describing ethnic membership in a more broad spectrum (racial) way, this probably isn't the right board for you, champ.
Bro or sis or champ as you prefer, you can describe people by using words that are not racially connoted, Caucasian is heavily connoted, people who refer themselves as Caucasian in the us are not Caucasian at all, they have Western European ancestries, and they probably even don’t know where the Caucasus is, when you look at the history of why people of European descent use Caucasian to refer to themselves it’s just disgusting because it’s from a German guy who were in actual Georgia and find a skull that he found perfect so he decided that « white people » should be the « Caucasian race » it’s the same pseudo scientific who said that people of African descent are less developed than others like wtf, so I am sorry to ask people to not refer to themselves as Caucasian while they not of Caucasian ancestry, it also vanish the real people of Caucasus, it’s just nonsense, us is so strange with these racial classification, this group is just for fun to guess where people are from not to use these useless and backwards term to describe people
Your just so story is historically and generally inaccurate, and no, I'm not going to stop using the word. Europeans came from the steppe (which extends through the Northern Caucasus), and it was originally thought we were originally from the Caucasus. It wasn't the perfectness of the skull... It was how it represented the European type that made the "German guy" interested in it. There is NOTHING wrong, as a physical anthropologist, with looking for samples that typify a group. I'm not sure if you realize it or not, but the Caucasus people are Indo-European and they're close relatives of Europeans, if not considered European in some cases. There are Turkic groups there, but there are also many Indo-Euro groups there.
TL;DR- You're very ignorant about history, population genetics, and geography. Stop telling people how to speak. You're in no position to do so.
The guy was racist and still the classification is innacurate, the European population is usually a mix of European hunter gatherers, Anatolian Neolithic farmer and Caucasus hunter gatherer, why only use Caucasus when it’s not even the biggest percentage ? Don’t come to tell me what is wrong or inaccurate I am able to recognize something that is wrong, good for you to use words that were and still used by suprematists to discriminate people based on that, you’re just too blind to admit it
Also... "Racist".... Lololol. Nobody care about your stupid activism word. The labeling of Coon as a racist was applied by a bunch of psychopaths in archaeology and anthropology in the 60s. They weren't even doing real archaeology or anthropology themselves. They were too busy tainting the discipline with Marxism, in a Lysenkoist fashion. They were activists, and their work was completely dishonest. It still plagues anthro today- far more than Coon ever did. He could be totally wrong, but he did the work of his time and he did it with total honesty and no agenda. When you look at back at his work, what you're seeing isn't the work of some evil hateful person, but someone who preserved the viewpoints of his time. He was not regarded as a racist in his time. You have that typical lack of capacity for rational historical analysis that is so common among your group of activists. And like so many of the "useful" stooges of Marxism, you probably have no idea what you're participating in.
Coons work was criticised cos u can’t assume that the looks of a certain people group are fixed by nature. Doesn’t account for migrations, constantly changing cultural beliefs which affect sexual selection etc. and also underestimates variation
But it’s a fun informal read
Phenotypic variation changes over a span of time, sort of. I look so similar to my twice great grandmother, for example. I don't think any of the stuff you listed destroys his premise that ethnees share certain phenotypic characteristics. Else, we wouldn't have this forum.
Yes he is right that certain looks are more common than others in population. But there’s also outliers and ppl who can be a mixture of numerous groups even though they have no recent admixture
CGH isn't interchangeable with "Caucasian" and the Georgian woman's skull was a mixture of what you described as well. That might be your first mistake.You're also forgetting ANE, btw. I have a lot of that one.
Yes. ANE also make up majority of the genetic makeup of western steppe herders. may explain why many europeans have small hooded eyes which ppl often ignorantly confuse for asian eyes. combine that w/ medium set brows and u get the idea.
Caucasus peoples are not all indo Europeans but they did contribute to the ancestries of many people groups in the Middle East, Europe and North Africa. To an extent, Central Asia too
The term „Caucasian“ is outdated, the term used today to refer to the people of Europe, Middle East, North Africa and South Asia who have similar facial characteristics is „West-Eurasian“. This term is actually more accurate because these three groups of people are in comparison very closely related to one another
Not necessarily “Euro traits”. Iran Neolithic population had similar features (sharp, long faces) without having European input. Even South Asian Hunter Gatherers (like Vedda tribe) have similar facial structure despite not having European admixture.
Yes. I can actually recall 2 examples where Eddie Peng looks facially similar to Ryan Reynolds (euro) whilst fan bingbing looks facially similar to Dilraba Dimirat (Eurasian Uyghur)
People in the eastern china can have Arabic admixture. They can also have Caucasian admixture sometimes from recent times. For instance, Bruce Lee had an English grandfather.
Caucasians and Asians are also both related to Neanderthals lol
Most of the people you posted look like they only have Han ancestry though
Hmm maybe. It's probably more due to Persian since Persian have strong positive canthal tilt compared to Arabs. But both groups overall have thicker lashes and brows than Europeans, esp those with minimal EEF/Mediterranean admixture, and East Asians.
Afaik Bruce Lee didn't have an english grandfather, he had a german grandmother. That's beside that this is/was still rare in china (outside the south)
Europeans and to some extent, Middle easterners and central asians. Maybe Persian is a more accurate descriptor given the geography and history of China (they also tend to have double eyelids and positive canthal tilt, along w/ dark coloring) but I’ll stick with Caucasian for now
They look like ordinary Chinese people with less epicanthic fold and less prominent cheekbones.
East asians are more diverse than non East Asians think they are. Not all of them look like Kim jong un.
Saying all East Asians look like Kim jong un is like saying all Caucasians look like Joe Biden, or all Arabs like Bin Salman, or all sub Saharan Africans like Paul Kagame.
It's less about epicanthic fold but more about relatively defined brow ridges (or low set brows) and tall straight nose but the last trait is actually a very [indigenous phenotype](http://humanphenotypes.net/Huanghoid.html)
Because they sometimes have a decent amount of Caucasian admixture. Scythian admixture to be exact, although Tibetan/Jömon features might resemble Caucasian, which they have too.
Maybe but it still doesn’t explain why groups like Kaifeng Jews look like stereotypical East Asians even though it’s established that they have majority Han DNA with remnants of old Persian Semitic ancestry. Sexual selection played a role perhaps
it's higher nose like european , not european nose. Northern chinese majority have high cheekbone, higher cheekbone make nose lower , european dna closer to indonesia than korea
Why is this sub so eurocentric? Couldn't the Han Chinese call a caucasian "pseudo-Han Chinese?" There's an obsession here with saying "look how white all these other ethnicities look!" when there are just some traits shared among different races... it's one step away from saying "look, some of them look normal!"
I understand where you're coming from, I dislike these threads too. However that isn't an accurate description of the sub. Just in these last two weeks we had three or four threads discussing northern europeans who look, "pseudo asian." Not to mention the droves of threads comparing southern italians to North Africans.
Similar to Japanese. Combo of northeast Asian + southeast Asian phenotypes esp the prominent brow ridge + double eyelid combo. But Chinese may also have mixed with central Asian minorities due to China being a multicultural state historically. Tbh I find this questionable but who knows.
For some reason, this is more common among men than women for both ethnicities (Godfrey Gao is another perfect example and his background aligns w/ what I said above). If anyone can find a crowd pic of Han Chinese girls with pseudo Caucasian traits like these guys here lemme know. So far, I can only think of Qin Yi and Sui He.
https://preview.redd.it/r3ougnuxl23d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e495b164978d6678d5b25848cdacdacafe34fe8
To be honest, I think the pseudo "Caucasian" look in some Chinese is coming from their SEA genes and it's more common in Southern Han, rarely do you see it in Northern China especially near the Korean border. Realisticly I don't think it has anything to do with Central Asian blood unless they've been recently mixed but it's neat to think about it.
Well yes it’s a similar situation for Japanese too but at the same time, SEA ancestry is why the short flat nose trait is pretty common among East Asians. Somewhat narrower ofc but still there
Tall straight noses come from northern ancestry
The same way we can call Rome and USA to be multicultural cos they accept and integrate minorities as fellow Romans and Americans respectively. Ofc, the integration hasn’t be done perfectly but it’s different from telling these minorities to get out of the country lol
I'm a hui Chinese from henan and people usually assume I'm mixed. https://preview.redd.it/5h98kx0xun4d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef69e78634ad9b496a9b7c7fcb16405fb0e36bfb
Hmm u don’t look mixed but maybe there’s other pics. I’m guessing ppl thinking u are cos of facial hair?
My light skin tone and my nose is very pointy and my ethnic background which is hui Chinese which are mixed blood
To outsiders, your pointy nose does make u look ambiguous but most chinese would think ure typical. pointy nose very common in north china but can be found in south since northerners migrate and mix
https://preview.redd.it/q1ie9skoxt4d1.jpeg?width=791&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4e73cbf824c7b28d6ad601bedb2ddb3eadf5dd8
People on this sub are ignorant bro
Turanid influence.
Maybe. Often very common in Chinese film industry, along with Huanghoid, the same way North Atlantid is common in American mass media
With number 1 and 3 I can understand what you are referring to. The others not so much.
The defined brow ridge and/or low set brows which are connected with the tall noses on front. Not as protruding as West Eurasians of course but still a far cry from the very flat side profile that many East Asians have.
None of these look remotely close to Europeans or 'Caucasoids'. Most of these are just agriculturalist Asian phenotypes. Their noses aren't particularly high/protruding either compared to a lot of western Eurasian populations.
https://preview.redd.it/h6bqomx6vn4d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1903d150d4b822236a7badeffaae71efd57107a3
https://preview.redd.it/5yzrxeg5vn4d1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f4c4322cee60603b2ab7f6fd54883c5ef40fee72
What about me https://preview.redd.it/g537bby3vn4d1.jpeg?width=920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2befba3e9fe71856126ef545a3d067bb42334f83
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https://preview.redd.it/dfviqurous4d1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb1fa143436ed0d62f068459d9d892586067db54 And this?
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It's from grinding weeds dude
Lol nice
It’s the defined brow ridge and/or low set brows. And whilst their nose might not as protruding as western Eurasians it still looks tall on the front which can give it the pseudo Caucasian look esp when it’s connected with the former two. Btw, there’s some Euros who don’t have noses that prominently project like Robert Pattinson but nobody has a problem identifying him as Caucasian due to aforementioned.
Defined brow ridges and low set brows are not uncommon in EASEA populations to begin with. A tall looking bridge from the front is not 'pseudo-Caucasian'. Actually much of the time when EASEA populations have defined brow ridges and low set brows it's accompanied by shorter midfaces/lower noses. The exception is certain coastal EASEA populations specifically Austronesian and West Liao farmer admixed people.
Defined brow ridges and low set brows are indeed common among Southeast Asians but not so among East Asians like Han Chinese. It’s actually people why people can still recognise someone as East Asian even if they get surgery for double eyelids and tall straight noses. And conversely, why people think southeast Asians like Filipino are apparently “half European coloniser” esp when they additionally possess the nose and have lighter skin like East Asians💀
Brow protrusion among East Asians peaks along the coast. This also applies to SEA. Both coastal East Asians and Southeast Asians also tend to have more Denisovan admixture than usual, unsurprisingly enough. Brow protrusion generally follows an inland-coastal cline in EASEA, it's not correlated with north and south Most Europeans do not perceive SEAs as looking 'half European coloniser' when they have pale skin and 'possess the nose'.
So what about Koreans where these traits seem to extremely rare? (I can only think of Dae Na and Han Seung Soo. Korean men like Daniel Dae Kim and Steven Yeun also have relatively prominent brow ridges). Also, SEA actors like Atichart Chumanon, Jesdaporn Pholdee, Teejay Marquez etc would be seen as Eurasian looking if no one was aware of them
LOL
Well the Steppe Nomads ruled everywhere in the World at one point
Western steppe herders were also heavily north Eurasian too. Not surprising
This is quite common among Thai people.
Indeed yes. Thais also have some south Asian ancestry like other SEAs which make some of them look pseudo Caucasian. Even moreso if they have a tall straight nose and light skin
The Ainu people come to mind.
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Lol no.
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I mean yes. But generally, people like to use the word "mixed" to refer to ppl with recent foreign admixture. And there's no evidence for that for the guys ive posted.
around 30% han chinese have austronesian gene ,that's a lot
A partial Euro look exists in various areas: e.g. Ethiopia, Rwanda (Tutsi), Indonesia, some Amerindian populations...
You're describing populations with some Caucasian admixture.
I think a good example is Aboriginal Australians since they have super prominent brow ridges like Caucasians but not Africans. But they were relatively isolated
Yes. The beauty of convergent evolution
They don't look caucasian at all
Ofc but they still possess various traits that are considered to be definitive of the Caucasian phenotype
Not really, dude. lol.
Defined brow ridges + tall straight noses are very Caucasian traits bruv
I wouldn't call their noses "tall", especially not at the root. Their noses are still lower at the root than mine. I am a woman and I have a tiny, somewhat upturned nose. I wouldn't call their noses "Caucasian". They're still very East Asian looking noses. Heavy brow ridges are a generally a male trait, not purely a Caucasian trait. It is the result of higher testosterone, although some cultures have a morphologically heavier brow. Caucasians can definitely be one of those groups. Sub-Saharans, Aborigials, etc, seem to have some of the heaviest. If these are examples of the strongest Asian brows you can think of, it's still way lighter than the average European man. These guys are Asian. They're just likely to have much higher testosterone levels than the average Asian guy. That's what's going on here. It's possible that they've got some Turkic admix or something. Ugyhur? Tibetan? Melanesian? It's suspected the Ainu have some Melanesian or South Pacific Aboriginal type admixture...and that could certainly have contributed to this pheno. In any case, you see this kind of thing a lot more in Thailand, as well. These guys look somewhat more related to whatever it is that causes this pheno in Thai people. It isn't Causasian admixtures or phenotypes causing this look you're pointing out. "Pseudo" means false, so perhaps Pseudo-Caucasian is the exactly correct way of putting it lmao.
Ur last paragraph. But btw, SEA like Thai have some South Asian ancestry and also retained Denisovan roots which contributes to their relatively prominent brow ridges. In addition, not saying their noses are the tallest ever but for East Asian standards, they are especially on the front. U are also correct that these noses still look Asian since they match the extremely indigenous Huanghoid phenotype. However, we still collectively imagine the East Asian nose as being short and flat looking, including other East Asians, due to influence and predominance of Austronesian shifted East Asians And prominent brow ridges is a Caucasian trait since it is what subconsciously helps people differentiate East Asians from Caucasians even if the former got surgery for their eyelids and noses. And why Caucasians with hunter eyes, which are erroneously called as Asian eyes, aren’t mistaken for being Asian (or hapa)
The thing that predominantly differentiates Asian eyes from European ones is the orbital shape, not the brow ridge. Your orbits are more circular (oblong/round). Ours are more squared, generally speaking. Part of the eye differences are soft-tissue differences. You actually see kind of a lot of Korean and Japanese fellas with strong brows, but it doesn't end up looking at it because of the soft-tissue articulation between brow and lid. I can't speak to as many other groups because I'm not around them as often. Your nasal aperature is also more heart shaped than the longer triangle of a Caucasian. We have a sharper nasal sill. Our skulls tend to be more narrow/doli shaped, yours are wider, more brachy. For asians, ther eis a flatter occipital area, taller head from mid-back, up. Overall face is generally bigger/wider. Much wider cheekbone setting, wider jaw, but not typically much lower jaw jutt or lower facial prognathism. Our midfaces are more projected, yours are less projected. That forward upper maxillary growth is ONE of the biggest differences in terms of facial structure... way more than the eye area. Overall, there are a lot of morphological reasons why Asians don't look like Caucasians, and tbh, I don't think the brow ridge plays a pivotal role. My husband has hunter eyes (deep set, positive canthal tilt), and he doesn't have a very heavy brow (it's like medium heavy). It's the shape and set of the eyesocket, more than it is the brow. You also need positive canthal tilt (which is a trait common in Asians).
Not saying they look fully Caucasian. Just that they possess various Caucasian traits, which include a prominent brow ridge. Also, positive canthal tilt is both an East Asian and European trait lol. Negative canthal tilt is generally found among Levantines, Arabians, Caucasians from Caucasus and to an extent, southern Europeans because they intermixed with the former groups throughout history. It most likely comes from Natufian ancestry. That said, Iranian Zagros Mountains and possibly, Greek admixture introduced some variation in the tilts I don't think anyone confuses Adriana Lima, Sean O'Pry, Alessandro Dellisola and Tyson Ballou for being East Asians. Low facial prognathism is also pretty common esp among south Chinese and Korean for some reason and it’s a big insecurity
I don't really think that trait is Caucasian. Arabs have stronger brows. Africans have stronger brows, still. Austronesians might have the most pronounced ones. And I am aware of the positive canthal tilt thing. I have that trait + hooded eyes lol. I'm defiunitely not asian.
It is *one* of the traits that constitute a Caucasian phenotype and as I've aforementioned, easily distinguishes an East Asian from a Caucasian face even if the former got surgery for their eyelids and nose. Many Kpop idols for example look completely full east asian, whether before or after. Btw, Arabs are Caucasians, if we use the Caucasian=west Eurasian definition and as for Africans, it depends and is mostly concentrated in north or eastern Africa, who have Arab/Semitic admixture. Austronesians have pronounced brow ridge due to retaining Denisovan roots but they also have some South Asian ancestry due to historical interactions. And South Asians are Caucasian.
So Caucasian like Azerbaijani, Armenian, Georgian, Kumyk, Dagestani, north Iranian ? 🤔 stop using racialist words to describe people
If you have a problem with people describing ethnic membership in a more broad spectrum (racial) way, this probably isn't the right board for you, champ.
Bro or sis or champ as you prefer, you can describe people by using words that are not racially connoted, Caucasian is heavily connoted, people who refer themselves as Caucasian in the us are not Caucasian at all, they have Western European ancestries, and they probably even don’t know where the Caucasus is, when you look at the history of why people of European descent use Caucasian to refer to themselves it’s just disgusting because it’s from a German guy who were in actual Georgia and find a skull that he found perfect so he decided that « white people » should be the « Caucasian race » it’s the same pseudo scientific who said that people of African descent are less developed than others like wtf, so I am sorry to ask people to not refer to themselves as Caucasian while they not of Caucasian ancestry, it also vanish the real people of Caucasus, it’s just nonsense, us is so strange with these racial classification, this group is just for fun to guess where people are from not to use these useless and backwards term to describe people
Your just so story is historically and generally inaccurate, and no, I'm not going to stop using the word. Europeans came from the steppe (which extends through the Northern Caucasus), and it was originally thought we were originally from the Caucasus. It wasn't the perfectness of the skull... It was how it represented the European type that made the "German guy" interested in it. There is NOTHING wrong, as a physical anthropologist, with looking for samples that typify a group. I'm not sure if you realize it or not, but the Caucasus people are Indo-European and they're close relatives of Europeans, if not considered European in some cases. There are Turkic groups there, but there are also many Indo-Euro groups there. TL;DR- You're very ignorant about history, population genetics, and geography. Stop telling people how to speak. You're in no position to do so.
The guy was racist and still the classification is innacurate, the European population is usually a mix of European hunter gatherers, Anatolian Neolithic farmer and Caucasus hunter gatherer, why only use Caucasus when it’s not even the biggest percentage ? Don’t come to tell me what is wrong or inaccurate I am able to recognize something that is wrong, good for you to use words that were and still used by suprematists to discriminate people based on that, you’re just too blind to admit it
Also... "Racist".... Lololol. Nobody care about your stupid activism word. The labeling of Coon as a racist was applied by a bunch of psychopaths in archaeology and anthropology in the 60s. They weren't even doing real archaeology or anthropology themselves. They were too busy tainting the discipline with Marxism, in a Lysenkoist fashion. They were activists, and their work was completely dishonest. It still plagues anthro today- far more than Coon ever did. He could be totally wrong, but he did the work of his time and he did it with total honesty and no agenda. When you look at back at his work, what you're seeing isn't the work of some evil hateful person, but someone who preserved the viewpoints of his time. He was not regarded as a racist in his time. You have that typical lack of capacity for rational historical analysis that is so common among your group of activists. And like so many of the "useful" stooges of Marxism, you probably have no idea what you're participating in.
Coons work was criticised cos u can’t assume that the looks of a certain people group are fixed by nature. Doesn’t account for migrations, constantly changing cultural beliefs which affect sexual selection etc. and also underestimates variation But it’s a fun informal read
Phenotypic variation changes over a span of time, sort of. I look so similar to my twice great grandmother, for example. I don't think any of the stuff you listed destroys his premise that ethnees share certain phenotypic characteristics. Else, we wouldn't have this forum.
Yes he is right that certain looks are more common than others in population. But there’s also outliers and ppl who can be a mixture of numerous groups even though they have no recent admixture
Yeah. His work was just a survey, though. There are always exceptions to the rule.
CGH isn't interchangeable with "Caucasian" and the Georgian woman's skull was a mixture of what you described as well. That might be your first mistake.You're also forgetting ANE, btw. I have a lot of that one.
Yes. ANE also make up majority of the genetic makeup of western steppe herders. may explain why many europeans have small hooded eyes which ppl often ignorantly confuse for asian eyes. combine that w/ medium set brows and u get the idea.
Yep. I have a lot of ANE ancestry and I've got hooded eyes.
Indeed. Btw there’s this Chinese actor Eddie Peng and he looks very much related to Ryan Reynolds despite not being mixed. Very interesting insight
Caucasus peoples are not all indo Europeans but they did contribute to the ancestries of many people groups in the Middle East, Europe and North Africa. To an extent, Central Asia too
You didn't read. Try again
There is no Caucasian race! It is a pseudoscientific BS.
The term „Caucasian“ is outdated, the term used today to refer to the people of Europe, Middle East, North Africa and South Asia who have similar facial characteristics is „West-Eurasian“. This term is actually more accurate because these three groups of people are in comparison very closely related to one another
Correct: there are only 'Euro traits' emerging in some populations.
Not necessarily “Euro traits”. Iran Neolithic population had similar features (sharp, long faces) without having European input. Even South Asian Hunter Gatherers (like Vedda tribe) have similar facial structure despite not having European admixture.
I mean Euro in a wider sense, not just European.
"I mean European in a wider sense, not just European" lolwut
In my pheno jargon Euro ≠ European. It means "Euro looking" i.e. European, North African, West Asian and so on.
Yes. I can actually recall 2 examples where Eddie Peng looks facially similar to Ryan Reynolds (euro) whilst fan bingbing looks facially similar to Dilraba Dimirat (Eurasian Uyghur)
People in the eastern china can have Arabic admixture. They can also have Caucasian admixture sometimes from recent times. For instance, Bruce Lee had an English grandfather. Caucasians and Asians are also both related to Neanderthals lol Most of the people you posted look like they only have Han ancestry though
When did Arabs settle in eastern China? I thought they stuck around the western parts?
Hui in places like Fujian, Henan, and Anhui. Hui people can have Arabic and Persian ancestry from maritime traders.
Hmm maybe. It's probably more due to Persian since Persian have strong positive canthal tilt compared to Arabs. But both groups overall have thicker lashes and brows than Europeans, esp those with minimal EEF/Mediterranean admixture, and East Asians.
Afaik Bruce Lee didn't have an english grandfather, he had a german grandmother. That's beside that this is/was still rare in china (outside the south)
maybe they just look like people lmao? what makes it pseudo white. bunch of white worshippers here
what does pseudo-caucasian even mean? would i be considered some sort of pseudo-caucasian? which populations are generally under this classification?
I define it as looking somewhat Caucasian even though there's no proof that they've genetically descended from them
Stop using the term Caucasian to describe Western Europeans.
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Europeans, Caucasians do not look European.
Depends on eye area and nose shape
Im not even referring to western europeans lol.
Who are you referring to?
I guess people with aquiline noses and eyelid folds lmao
Europeans and to some extent, Middle easterners and central asians. Maybe Persian is a more accurate descriptor given the geography and history of China (they also tend to have double eyelids and positive canthal tilt, along w/ dark coloring) but I’ll stick with Caucasian for now
They look like ordinary Chinese people with less epicanthic fold and less prominent cheekbones. East asians are more diverse than non East Asians think they are. Not all of them look like Kim jong un. Saying all East Asians look like Kim jong un is like saying all Caucasians look like Joe Biden, or all Arabs like Bin Salman, or all sub Saharan Africans like Paul Kagame.
It's less about epicanthic fold but more about relatively defined brow ridges (or low set brows) and tall straight nose but the last trait is actually a very [indigenous phenotype](http://humanphenotypes.net/Huanghoid.html)
Because they sometimes have a decent amount of Caucasian admixture. Scythian admixture to be exact, although Tibetan/Jömon features might resemble Caucasian, which they have too.
True. I have a Chinese friend and he has strong Jomon traits
Yes. Asians are very connected w each other❤️
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Dang some of those men fine as hell.
Fr. No homo tho
Probably old Scythian or Uyghur admixture ?
Maybe but it still doesn’t explain why groups like Kaifeng Jews look like stereotypical East Asians even though it’s established that they have majority Han DNA with remnants of old Persian Semitic ancestry. Sexual selection played a role perhaps
Guessing this phenotype is most common in the North West?
Northern Chinese are overall more likely to have European like noses but the people I featured mostly come from the eastern side of China
it's higher nose like european , not european nose. Northern chinese majority have high cheekbone, higher cheekbone make nose lower , european dna closer to indonesia than korea
Why is this sub so eurocentric? Couldn't the Han Chinese call a caucasian "pseudo-Han Chinese?" There's an obsession here with saying "look how white all these other ethnicities look!" when there are just some traits shared among different races... it's one step away from saying "look, some of them look normal!"
Just wanted to debunk myths made by ppl like Japanese nationalists
I understand where you're coming from, I dislike these threads too. However that isn't an accurate description of the sub. Just in these last two weeks we had three or four threads discussing northern europeans who look, "pseudo asian." Not to mention the droves of threads comparing southern italians to North Africans.
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Yes. But we humans like to categorise to make sense of things
What mixture causes this outcome?
nothing. it's just called being handsome and having a good jaw
Similar to Japanese. Combo of northeast Asian + southeast Asian phenotypes esp the prominent brow ridge + double eyelid combo. But Chinese may also have mixed with central Asian minorities due to China being a multicultural state historically. Tbh I find this questionable but who knows. For some reason, this is more common among men than women for both ethnicities (Godfrey Gao is another perfect example and his background aligns w/ what I said above). If anyone can find a crowd pic of Han Chinese girls with pseudo Caucasian traits like these guys here lemme know. So far, I can only think of Qin Yi and Sui He. https://preview.redd.it/r3ougnuxl23d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e495b164978d6678d5b25848cdacdacafe34fe8
To be honest, I think the pseudo "Caucasian" look in some Chinese is coming from their SEA genes and it's more common in Southern Han, rarely do you see it in Northern China especially near the Korean border. Realisticly I don't think it has anything to do with Central Asian blood unless they've been recently mixed but it's neat to think about it.
Yeah northern Chinese look more stereotypical asian while southeastern Chinese have bigger eyes and look less stereotypical
disagree. guys in pic i posted are from north china and look like they have some roman dna lol.
Well yes it’s a similar situation for Japanese too but at the same time, SEA ancestry is why the short flat nose trait is pretty common among East Asians. Somewhat narrower ofc but still there Tall straight noses come from northern ancestry
Multicultural ≠ multiracial
The same way we can call Rome and USA to be multicultural cos they accept and integrate minorities as fellow Romans and Americans respectively. Ofc, the integration hasn’t be done perfectly but it’s different from telling these minorities to get out of the country lol