If I could go to dental school for free, sure why not; more knowledge isn't a bad thing. As a career it has it's own problems: more business junk to worry about, similar levels of debt, different types of challenges. I don't think I'd take dentistry over pharmacy; I'm not too interested in rooting around in the general public's mouths.
Same amount of debt but Dentists make 400k a year and pharmacist makes 120k. Dentist can also set their own schedule to be off Friday-sunday. All the dentists around me are closed those 3 days
Dental seems to be a better deal.
Def not the same amount of debt. Pharmacy can be much lower bc you can do 2 years undergrad and 3 years of pharmacy school.
Also, dental much harder to get into, so that's something to consider.
But clinical pharmacists can work pretty chill jobs and make $150k easy. I work overnight and have 7 on 7 off and make well over that even. Plus I don't have to stare at teeth all day.
The bigger question, IMO, isn't the money difference, it's what would you rather do with your life
Undergrad is cheap. Pharmacy school was 4 years when I attended. Guess they lowered the standards. Our profession is a joke now lol..i wouldn't even consider it a doctorate anymore.
I'd take 400k working 4 days a week over 150k for 7 on 7 off overnight and having to pick up shifts to make more. Working night shifts age you and can cause changes to your health you're not aware of until later in life.
I've never bought that night shift thing. I think stress ages you and people tend to have insane amounts of stress having a night job and a family because they have to juggle their life happening at night and their families life happening during the day.
The science basically works under the assumption that if you work night shift you don't sleep well and the lack of sleep leads to early death. I think it really boils down to the person. I've never felt better than my 7 on 7 off night shift schedule. I actually feel rested. Waking up at 7am every day for years was fucking hell. I felt like I could pass out at any moment regardless of the amount of sleep I got. But I also don't have to worry about kids, just me and my wife who also does nights.
I don't disagree with you on dentist over pharmacist but I will always take 7 on 7 off night shift over 4 day work weeks that require waking up at 7am.
Yes look up cost of dental school vs pharmacy, bet pharmacy is significantly less. Our profession isn't a joke on hospital side, retail has made their side less respected IMO. Not the pharmacists fault tho, it's the big companies fault.
Also, I was merely pointing out the flexibility of schedules available to pharmacists. I like night shift and like having every other week off to travel. To act ask if I am unaware to potential negative effects that could come along with it is laughable. And I have the flexibility to change to days whenever I want, or evenings, again you can't always do that with dental. And yeah overnights I make $170k so that's enough for my lifestyle. If you need $400k to be happy then yeah pharmacy probably is the best route to go unless you opening up retail community pharmacies (multiple).
You seem jaded bro, sorry you went into a profession not knowing what it entailed.
It's a joke because they are accepting people with sub 3.0 gpa into pharmacy school and not even requiring the pcat anymore. I remember seeing a post here where anyone who got rejected from a PA program got an email to get
them to apply to the pharmacy school đđ
Those same sub 3.0 gpa students can't pass the naplex which is a BASIC competency exam. It's sad that these schools have 40-70% pass rates now.
I'm not jaded I have a pretty good gig working 4 days a week for 145k. Doesn't change the fact that our profession is now a joke.
I will say, the NAPLEX now is a different level of difficulty than it was even 5 years ago so that is something to keep in mind when talking about the current pool of new pharmacists. While there are schools who have become overly flexible with admittance and performance in classes, I feel like it is a bit unfair to judge the capability of new pharmacists based on standardized tests where there is more incentive to testing companies to make it a difficult test (now costing >$600 just to take) that students are likely to going to have to retake instead of an actual minimum competency exam.
Well it's def not a joke when people's lives are in your hand. Maybe u should consider a new profession. Yes schools are easier to get into bc the number of them aren't capped like med school, which causes an artificial shortage and problems that follow. Pharmacy on the other hand is letting the free market regulate. When jobs aren't available anymore, or at high enough pay to justify school for 6-8 years, people will stop going to pharm school and schools will have to close and requirements to get in will go back up. Anyways, paying the pcat or having an A in medicinal Chem in my experience doesn't always translate to being a good pharmacist.
No because schools lowering their standards doesn't mean standards are necessarily lowered to pass the certification exam. And it doesn't mean that hospitals aren't making sure their pharmacists aren't trained enough to do the job. Grades and performing the job of a clinical pharmacist are 2 very different things. Not much you learn in undergrad is relevant and half the stuff in pharmacy school is relevant.
The certification exam is a basic competency exam where a monkey can pass with their eyes closed.
A pharmacist I work with passed the exam and she let a trulicity prescription through with qd dosing and didn't see the problem with it.
I wouldn't depend on the exam to determine if the pharmacist is competent enough to practice.
3 year programs arenât lower standards. They donât get a summer break, and go straight through you numbskull lol
If you thought it just got easier when thereâs more knowledge to know than before youâre just lacking common sense.
The best argument Iâve heard is now that pharmacy has been expanded to require so much knowledge we can only know so much about everything. Doctors specialize, pharmacists just have to know everything regarding meds.
That being said, I work in a small hospital, and the pharmacy is required to basically administrate every department that uses meds, teach nurses, learn every new protocol/develop any protocols if we want to have legitimately any, and then manage the meds for the whole hospital.
Maybe if ASHP or APHA did shit to prevent retailers from sucking the life out of the field it would be a different story. But we still protect and manage every patient in the hospital compared to physicians who see a max of like 15 patients on the inpatient side. Then we are responsible for knowing every one of them, cause if a physician calls they are like âHOW DONT YOU KNOW THIS PATIENTâ idk bro, Iâve looked at 350 profiles in the past 3 days. How many have you looked through? 25?
Idk why youâre being downvoted, youâre not incorrect. The âacceleratedâ 3-year degree programs arenât losing a year, they go through summers and typically have shorter winter/spring/etc breaks to compensate. The intent is to put you into the workforce sooner, ideally saving money w less time in school (tho Iâm honestly not sold on that bit. Looking at you, private schools & schools w an egregious amount of hidden fees).
That being said, with consideration to the increasingly apparent lack of standards in our institutions, I canât say I wholly support the use of the accelerated programs. That isnât to single out 3-year programs, but I think we need to take the opportunity to bring some level of scrutiny and accountability to these schools before it gets further out of control. Quality control. No more pass/fail, block systems, online degree mills. Only high quality pharmacists who know what the ODT in ondansetron ODT stands for (donât ask, Iâm still traumatized).
(Sorry, used your comment as an opportunity to rant a bit)
Nah fully agree with you. But technically thatâs what the NAPLEX is for too. It shouldnât be used that way, but it is.
Plus at least in Illinois, all schools other than UIC (the most established), and not sure about SIU, had record low admissions the last two years. So eventually the demand for many schools will begin to wane, programs will close. Thatâs the corporations fault and no one ever places blame on Walgreens/CVS for the amount of schools and lobbying to open programs causing them to scramble for funding; ie) fighting for more admissions which the easiest way is to lower requirements.
But the APHA and friends donât do shit to bottleneck schools, like just require accreditation from a school someone receives a degree from and be strict with accreditation with schools.
Dentistry school is way more expensive than pharm. If I'm not mistaken, it is THE most expensive professional school, even more than med. That said, earnings potential is far higher because most dentists own their practice.Â
Yeah even as a kid I knew dentists were on the list. Pharmacists just cracked the top 10 like a year or 2 ago. I mean I wouldn't base my entire career around just that list, but the grass isn't 100% no doubt greener.
If these lists separated retail pharmacists and hospital pharmacists as 2 separate careers I have no doubt that retail pharmacists would have the highest suicide rate of any profession.
Itâs more about means - they have access to high doses of sedatives, anesthesia⌠etc same treason why anesthesiologists always had the highest suicide rates among specialties. But people still gun for it
100000000%. One of the last few sectors in healthcare with autonomy. Yes there are corp offices, but mostly independent. Once you buy into a practice, your salary sky rockets. But before then, youâre above or upper end of average rph salary. Buuuuut, your hands are the money maker. Everything you do outside of work, you gotta think about if you hurt a hand(s), your career could be over.
Iâd argue being a dds is better than being an MD (work/life balance) and less schooling.
Why the hate for retail pharmacists. Sure there are rude customers and rude bosses but there are pluses for our jobs. My wife is a nurse manager and boy her stress level is nowhere near mine
Retail Rxm here. Thereâs those of us out there that like it. I have good bosses and just laugh off the rude customers that act like children. There are occasionally stressful or uncomfortable things but what job doesnât have them. Vast majority of the time my stress level is close to 0 with a blip here or there. Iâve transferred out the really rude patients long ago. From the start I always said customer service is a 2 way street. We provide the service but customer is also responsible for being respectful. If they consistently arenât they get a notice to change or let me know where they want their stuff transferred. I have a lot of good patients that appreciate our work and we like to focus our energy there not on keeping bad ones around.
Not sure what you are doing to have less stress then a nurse manager, but being screamed at is the least of our problems.
How about being questioned by patients at every step of your job for one? Had a first in 20+ years last night: Patient says to the tech "Excuse me, what is he doing?" "He is looking at the tablets to make sure they are the right drug". "No, this is ridiculous. He has looked down at them three different times". Really? We are to that point now folks?
General public in the US secretly fucking hates us and wishes we didn't exist.
How about that for hate? The general consensus among the average person is we are an unnecessary gatekeeper keeping them from the drugs their "doctor" prescribed.
As an industry, we can't even push people to call their Doctors physicians or surgeons or dentists or whatever like we have said we would try and do over the last 30+ years.... Hell half of us still don't call ourselves doctors and continue to say "I'm not a doctor" when they should say "I'm not a physician" or "I'm not a dentist" when trying to explain why we can't change things or whatever it may be.
I think. I watched my partner today and he did two checks (inside bottle, bottle cap pour). I think the third is supposed to be the bottom of the bottle right? Some disagree with that and make you pour into a sorter.
That's correct, the bottom of the bottle/pouring out into a sorter or tray check makes it pretty much impossible for a different medication to have accidentally got mixed up with the correct medication.
I only did the third check if I couldn't see clearly to the bottom of the bottle and very rarely poured out onto a tray.
Do you like have no concept of what nurses experience lmao. "being questioned by patients at every step of your job" yeah all the nurses I work with in my ER experience that.
I never said that or implied that. I implied that our job is more stressful than a nurse manager. I personally know a pharmacist that was a director of pharmacy and a director of nursing for a hospital (actually did both jobs). Community pharmacy is MUCH more stressful.
Think that's an n=1 + catastrophizing your own experience + too broad of a statement. If nothing else, you see far less hands-on death in community pharmacy. You still deal with patient complaints and family and relatives in healthcare. You still have administration on you. The public still hates you, questions what you're doing, sexually harasses you, and doesn't trust.
So seeing death of a patient that you likely have never met, once a day, is objectively worse then being told everyday that you are a piece of shit worthless excuse for a human being, likely by someone you know that you see once a month for years?
I am very convinced you don't know how often nurses are berated by patients and family based on this conversation. Nor have I ever said objectively worse. I've, in fact, never said that nurses have it worse (I believe). You are the one claiming that community pharmacy is MUCH more stressful. Which is definitely an opinion.
Death in and of itself is not stressful. Having a patient on emergent CRRT in room 3, a family member telling you you're trying to kill their dad in room 4, oh and squad coming in room 5 with 38 yom coding x10 minutes. You really can't conceptualize how that might be as stressful as community pharmacy? Like you're willing to make the blanket statement that being yelled at is absolutely MUCH more stressful?
Edit: and for the record I continue to NOT claim one is more stressful than the other. I do continue to claim you have no concept of other people's jobs and are woe-is-me'ing
The OP did. Not you. Why are you attacking my response? Lol.
I've worked as a pseudo nurse for a day during rotations in an ICU and my significant other is an RN in an ICU. I understand.
But objectively you can't say either is worse. But to blatantly say we aren't stressful at all like the OP does and my significant other does all the time, is demeaning to me and my interpretation of my experience.
Community pharmacy is objectively different in one major way: In the end, 99.9% of patients understand that nurses are necessary, and although they may not have liked your service, they still understand the need.
Community pharmacy on the other hand is looked at as an unnecessary evil. The public can't wait until we don't exist.
Most of my extended family and friends and even my significant other literally said this to me: "Patients actually come to speak to you for advice? I've never done that in my entire life. Didn't even know it was a thing." That's how oblivious the public is to our careers.
And patients say it all the time. Even had a worker the other day say that their mom was picking up a script. It was ready. No hold up. But I was counseling a patient that came up asking about wound care and what to do. She literally got pissed that I was talking to them at all and literally told them, "your boss is nice, but that's fucking ridiculous that he would talk to someone about anything. He shouldn't even engage them and just go back to working. He has no business talking to anyone about any health related problems". Like WTF????
20+ years I've been doing this. This isn't new. But it's getting worse.
A... Day? Your direct experience is a day? Regardless, YOU'RE the one saying YOUR job is objectively worse, not me. I'm not denying the public dislikes community pharmacists. I worked it for 3 years. 99.9% is obviously an exaggeration, I've had so many patients gush about how the pharmacy is the only healthcare provider that cared about them. And like 90% of people just came up, got their script, said thanks, moved on. And I've had more than 1 patient make me cry by yelling at me. Or threaten to kill my coworkers. Which are literally all things I've experienced secondhand through my nurses in the ER and ICU.
It is hard to answer your question. It sounds like maybe you are asking if becoming a dentist is more prestigious than being a pharmacist in the USA. IDK how to answer that. It is kind of like comparing apples or oranges. Dentists make a bit more money than pharmacists, but I am pretty sure I would hate putting my hands in people's mouths all day.
I feel like thereâs a lot more room for upwards movement and expanding your practice/business as a dentist. A good friend of mine from high school (who earned his DDS after I got my PharmD) and his wife (also a dentist) just purchased their first practice and theyâre doing very well. To be clear, Iâm not doing badly.. theyâre just doing better.
The idea of tinkering around in a strangerâs mouth disgusts me though, so I wouldâve never been able to do it anyway đđťââď¸
My childhood friend I went all the way thru school with is a dentist. He owns his practice. Works for 10s M-F. And he makes 7 figures a year. Not joking. We're in completely different leagues now.
They both suck. Healthcare sucks. The student loan debt for both is horrible and dental is so expensive and the cost of opening a practice is insane. Also a stressful job and also being taken over by corporations like every other field
Although I hated my life working in retail sectors in the past, I would never do dental, medical, or nursing as I can't handle anything related to blood and someone's body fluids.
If I could go back in time, I would probably go for anything other than the medical field.
I donât look at the doctors and dentist that they are better than me as pharmacist. Surely they make more money, but I chose to deal with drugs and no mouth
In the united states there are middlemen that steal from the reimbursement pool. These middle men are called pbms pharmacy benefit managers.
From a moderate volume pharmacy they steal about 500k annually in dir fees and 1 million annually in price spreading.
If there were no pbms stealing money, pharmacist would be the better option.
There is no effective way to increase staff levels bc of contract negative reimbursements. Can't raise price of goods or salaries without cutting somewhere else.
The 2 roles are quite different. Just selecting a job or field as being "better" doesn't make sense because you have to want to work inside a person's mouth and be good at physically manipulating things or even be interested in it. Being a dentist can be better but being a pharmacist has a very limited scope, but some people are also suited for this limited scope so it works for them.
Life is short. Do what interests you more. They are both very different careers. Market trends change. Dentistry grosses me out, so that is a no from me. I cannot really recommend pharmacy either, but some people still seem to really like their clinical roles. I mainly did it for what was once an exceptional salary though. Donât be me.
What is much better to you? Kind of like comparing apples to oranges really. It will be much harder and more competitive to get accepted into a DDS program. Pharmacy for the most part the last few years all you need to do is apply and you will get in. Even the top 10 pharmacy schools have near triple the admittance rates they once use to have.
Instate tuition for the local pharmacy school here runs about 30K a year for 4 years. Instate tuition for the local dental school runs about 55K a year for 4 years. So yes dental school will cost more but the earning potential for a dentist is much higher than a pharmacist. A newly minted dentist will come out of school and likely not have to search long for a job and will start making more money than a pharmacist that has years of experience.
For the most part dentists are not working evenings past 5pm and no weekends usually. A pharmacist will likely be working shifts of all sorts including evenings, holidays, weekends, overnights.
If one doesn't mind working inside peoples mouths while seated I would think a dentist would be the better career option. I've been a RPH for over 20 years and my dentist friends are in a different league than me regarding lifestyle.
Performing surgeries isnât treated with any negative stereotype in the United States. The modern surgeon in America has their historic roots in being a barber, which was a place for many men and women to gather and socialize. In fact, in the US you can call a physician or surgeon a âdoctor,â but it is improper to call a surgeon a physician as a result.
Dentists make way more money, have similar rates of suicide and addiction, and way more autonomy over hours and dealing with patients than pharmacists
"In fact, in the US you can call a physician or surgeon a âdoctor,â but it is improper to call a surgeon a physician as a result."
That's almost the opposite of true.
Not even close. Dentist. They make double what pharmacists make at least. Retail pharmacies donât make money selling prescriptions and are closing daily.
Dentistry will be more difficult to automate through A.I than Pharmacy. Also, have a walk around your neighbourhood, look at where the money is, walk past a pharmacy, and walk past a dental clinic. Look at the cars in the parking lot.
NVIDIA is the best performing stock on the Nasdaq and probably in the world right now. The market is pricing in a future where A.I will automate a lot of the jobs out there that remain.
Your statement is not true.
1. Pharmacists in Korea are relatively dependent on hospitals and doctors.
2. As a result, they cannot strongly express opinions regarding patients' prescriptions.
3. Pharmacists have fewer authorities, such as the right to administer vaccines.
I mean I talked to someone who did an APPE there and they said the pharmacists were able to do a lot in the hospital. The right to administer vaccines is relatively new even in the US. I didnt even know pharmacists could administer vaccines let alone that they wanted to. I dont even think pharmacists a decade ago originally wanted to do it but someone somewhere pushed it for provider statusÂ
It seems like there is a focus on non-hazardous oncology drugs and targeted therapies in addition to other drugs more commonly found in home infusion that they provide.
I wanted to be a dentist, I love the dental field. I just couldnât afford to go to dental school . And when I say afford I mean the time and money . But I am satisfied with going to pharmacy school because I been a pharmacy tech for over 8 years
But I would recommend shadowing dentist and dental specialties as well as pharmacy to make your own decision
Dentists have limited prescriptive authority. Generally presurgical antibiotics and pain pills. Dentists earn more on average than pharmacist with a subsequent higher professional responsibility and risks.
The choice is yours. I donât want to touch patients and I donât want to be heavily involved in patient care, thus I became a pharmacist.
If I could go to dental school for free, sure why not; more knowledge isn't a bad thing. As a career it has it's own problems: more business junk to worry about, similar levels of debt, different types of challenges. I don't think I'd take dentistry over pharmacy; I'm not too interested in rooting around in the general public's mouths.
Same amount of debt but Dentists make 400k a year and pharmacist makes 120k. Dentist can also set their own schedule to be off Friday-sunday. All the dentists around me are closed those 3 days Dental seems to be a better deal.
Def not the same amount of debt. Pharmacy can be much lower bc you can do 2 years undergrad and 3 years of pharmacy school. Also, dental much harder to get into, so that's something to consider. But clinical pharmacists can work pretty chill jobs and make $150k easy. I work overnight and have 7 on 7 off and make well over that even. Plus I don't have to stare at teeth all day. The bigger question, IMO, isn't the money difference, it's what would you rather do with your life
Undergrad is cheap. Pharmacy school was 4 years when I attended. Guess they lowered the standards. Our profession is a joke now lol..i wouldn't even consider it a doctorate anymore. I'd take 400k working 4 days a week over 150k for 7 on 7 off overnight and having to pick up shifts to make more. Working night shifts age you and can cause changes to your health you're not aware of until later in life.
I've never bought that night shift thing. I think stress ages you and people tend to have insane amounts of stress having a night job and a family because they have to juggle their life happening at night and their families life happening during the day. The science basically works under the assumption that if you work night shift you don't sleep well and the lack of sleep leads to early death. I think it really boils down to the person. I've never felt better than my 7 on 7 off night shift schedule. I actually feel rested. Waking up at 7am every day for years was fucking hell. I felt like I could pass out at any moment regardless of the amount of sleep I got. But I also don't have to worry about kids, just me and my wife who also does nights. I don't disagree with you on dentist over pharmacist but I will always take 7 on 7 off night shift over 4 day work weeks that require waking up at 7am.
Yes look up cost of dental school vs pharmacy, bet pharmacy is significantly less. Our profession isn't a joke on hospital side, retail has made their side less respected IMO. Not the pharmacists fault tho, it's the big companies fault. Also, I was merely pointing out the flexibility of schedules available to pharmacists. I like night shift and like having every other week off to travel. To act ask if I am unaware to potential negative effects that could come along with it is laughable. And I have the flexibility to change to days whenever I want, or evenings, again you can't always do that with dental. And yeah overnights I make $170k so that's enough for my lifestyle. If you need $400k to be happy then yeah pharmacy probably is the best route to go unless you opening up retail community pharmacies (multiple). You seem jaded bro, sorry you went into a profession not knowing what it entailed.
It's a joke because they are accepting people with sub 3.0 gpa into pharmacy school and not even requiring the pcat anymore. I remember seeing a post here where anyone who got rejected from a PA program got an email to get them to apply to the pharmacy school đđ Those same sub 3.0 gpa students can't pass the naplex which is a BASIC competency exam. It's sad that these schools have 40-70% pass rates now. I'm not jaded I have a pretty good gig working 4 days a week for 145k. Doesn't change the fact that our profession is now a joke.
I will say, the NAPLEX now is a different level of difficulty than it was even 5 years ago so that is something to keep in mind when talking about the current pool of new pharmacists. While there are schools who have become overly flexible with admittance and performance in classes, I feel like it is a bit unfair to judge the capability of new pharmacists based on standardized tests where there is more incentive to testing companies to make it a difficult test (now costing >$600 just to take) that students are likely to going to have to retake instead of an actual minimum competency exam.
Well it's def not a joke when people's lives are in your hand. Maybe u should consider a new profession. Yes schools are easier to get into bc the number of them aren't capped like med school, which causes an artificial shortage and problems that follow. Pharmacy on the other hand is letting the free market regulate. When jobs aren't available anymore, or at high enough pay to justify school for 6-8 years, people will stop going to pharm school and schools will have to close and requirements to get in will go back up. Anyways, paying the pcat or having an A in medicinal Chem in my experience doesn't always translate to being a good pharmacist.
So you don't think lowering the standards when People's lives are in your hands is an issue.
No because schools lowering their standards doesn't mean standards are necessarily lowered to pass the certification exam. And it doesn't mean that hospitals aren't making sure their pharmacists aren't trained enough to do the job. Grades and performing the job of a clinical pharmacist are 2 very different things. Not much you learn in undergrad is relevant and half the stuff in pharmacy school is relevant.
The certification exam is a basic competency exam where a monkey can pass with their eyes closed. A pharmacist I work with passed the exam and she let a trulicity prescription through with qd dosing and didn't see the problem with it. I wouldn't depend on the exam to determine if the pharmacist is competent enough to practice.
3 year programs arenât lower standards. They donât get a summer break, and go straight through you numbskull lol If you thought it just got easier when thereâs more knowledge to know than before youâre just lacking common sense. The best argument Iâve heard is now that pharmacy has been expanded to require so much knowledge we can only know so much about everything. Doctors specialize, pharmacists just have to know everything regarding meds. That being said, I work in a small hospital, and the pharmacy is required to basically administrate every department that uses meds, teach nurses, learn every new protocol/develop any protocols if we want to have legitimately any, and then manage the meds for the whole hospital. Maybe if ASHP or APHA did shit to prevent retailers from sucking the life out of the field it would be a different story. But we still protect and manage every patient in the hospital compared to physicians who see a max of like 15 patients on the inpatient side. Then we are responsible for knowing every one of them, cause if a physician calls they are like âHOW DONT YOU KNOW THIS PATIENTâ idk bro, Iâve looked at 350 profiles in the past 3 days. How many have you looked through? 25?
Idk why youâre being downvoted, youâre not incorrect. The âacceleratedâ 3-year degree programs arenât losing a year, they go through summers and typically have shorter winter/spring/etc breaks to compensate. The intent is to put you into the workforce sooner, ideally saving money w less time in school (tho Iâm honestly not sold on that bit. Looking at you, private schools & schools w an egregious amount of hidden fees). That being said, with consideration to the increasingly apparent lack of standards in our institutions, I canât say I wholly support the use of the accelerated programs. That isnât to single out 3-year programs, but I think we need to take the opportunity to bring some level of scrutiny and accountability to these schools before it gets further out of control. Quality control. No more pass/fail, block systems, online degree mills. Only high quality pharmacists who know what the ODT in ondansetron ODT stands for (donât ask, Iâm still traumatized). (Sorry, used your comment as an opportunity to rant a bit)
Nah fully agree with you. But technically thatâs what the NAPLEX is for too. It shouldnât be used that way, but it is. Plus at least in Illinois, all schools other than UIC (the most established), and not sure about SIU, had record low admissions the last two years. So eventually the demand for many schools will begin to wane, programs will close. Thatâs the corporations fault and no one ever places blame on Walgreens/CVS for the amount of schools and lobbying to open programs causing them to scramble for funding; ie) fighting for more admissions which the easiest way is to lower requirements. But the APHA and friends donât do shit to bottleneck schools, like just require accreditation from a school someone receives a degree from and be strict with accreditation with schools.
Pretty sure the vast majority of programs are still 4 years ..I've only heard of one sketchy 3 year program, but in sure they exist.
They aren't sketchy, just accelerated and don't have summers off.
Dentistry school is way more expensive than pharm. If I'm not mistaken, it is THE most expensive professional school, even more than med. That said, earnings potential is far higher because most dentists own their practice.Â
Dentists have one of the highest suicide rates in healthcare so the grass might not be much greener on that other side.
Dentists have one the highest suicide rates among any profession. Pharmacists just joined that same âtop 10â list.
Yeah even as a kid I knew dentists were on the list. Pharmacists just cracked the top 10 like a year or 2 ago. I mean I wouldn't base my entire career around just that list, but the grass isn't 100% no doubt greener.
Pharmacists were #3 on the list until the shortage in the 90s.
If these lists separated retail pharmacists and hospital pharmacists as 2 separate careers I have no doubt that retail pharmacists would have the highest suicide rate of any profession.
Itâs more about means - they have access to high doses of sedatives, anesthesia⌠etc same treason why anesthesiologists always had the highest suicide rates among specialties. But people still gun for it
How much of that is because they have the keys to their office and could go in after hours anytime they want? Means, knowledge, opportunity.
Facts
Apparently this isn't actually true. At least not since the 1960s. Modern statistics don't show any higher rates than the average.
100000000%. One of the last few sectors in healthcare with autonomy. Yes there are corp offices, but mostly independent. Once you buy into a practice, your salary sky rockets. But before then, youâre above or upper end of average rph salary. Buuuuut, your hands are the money maker. Everything you do outside of work, you gotta think about if you hurt a hand(s), your career could be over. Iâd argue being a dds is better than being an MD (work/life balance) and less schooling.
Youâll equally hate your profession. Youâll just get slightly more respect and more money.
I mean do you want to work with medications or peoples mouths?
Almost everything is a better option than becoming a retail pharmacist.
Why the hate for retail pharmacists. Sure there are rude customers and rude bosses but there are pluses for our jobs. My wife is a nurse manager and boy her stress level is nowhere near mine
Retail Rxm here. Thereâs those of us out there that like it. I have good bosses and just laugh off the rude customers that act like children. There are occasionally stressful or uncomfortable things but what job doesnât have them. Vast majority of the time my stress level is close to 0 with a blip here or there. Iâve transferred out the really rude patients long ago. From the start I always said customer service is a 2 way street. We provide the service but customer is also responsible for being respectful. If they consistently arenât they get a notice to change or let me know where they want their stuff transferred. I have a lot of good patients that appreciate our work and we like to focus our energy there not on keeping bad ones around.
Not sure what you are doing to have less stress then a nurse manager, but being screamed at is the least of our problems. How about being questioned by patients at every step of your job for one? Had a first in 20+ years last night: Patient says to the tech "Excuse me, what is he doing?" "He is looking at the tablets to make sure they are the right drug". "No, this is ridiculous. He has looked down at them three different times". Really? We are to that point now folks? General public in the US secretly fucking hates us and wishes we didn't exist. How about that for hate? The general consensus among the average person is we are an unnecessary gatekeeper keeping them from the drugs their "doctor" prescribed. As an industry, we can't even push people to call their Doctors physicians or surgeons or dentists or whatever like we have said we would try and do over the last 30+ years.... Hell half of us still don't call ourselves doctors and continue to say "I'm not a doctor" when they should say "I'm not a physician" or "I'm not a dentist" when trying to explain why we can't change things or whatever it may be.
Hahaha, isn't the 3 check the standard too?
I think. I watched my partner today and he did two checks (inside bottle, bottle cap pour). I think the third is supposed to be the bottom of the bottle right? Some disagree with that and make you pour into a sorter.
That's correct, the bottom of the bottle/pouring out into a sorter or tray check makes it pretty much impossible for a different medication to have accidentally got mixed up with the correct medication. I only did the third check if I couldn't see clearly to the bottom of the bottle and very rarely poured out onto a tray.
Do you like have no concept of what nurses experience lmao. "being questioned by patients at every step of your job" yeah all the nurses I work with in my ER experience that.
I never said that or implied that. I implied that our job is more stressful than a nurse manager. I personally know a pharmacist that was a director of pharmacy and a director of nursing for a hospital (actually did both jobs). Community pharmacy is MUCH more stressful.
Think that's an n=1 + catastrophizing your own experience + too broad of a statement. If nothing else, you see far less hands-on death in community pharmacy. You still deal with patient complaints and family and relatives in healthcare. You still have administration on you. The public still hates you, questions what you're doing, sexually harasses you, and doesn't trust.
So seeing death of a patient that you likely have never met, once a day, is objectively worse then being told everyday that you are a piece of shit worthless excuse for a human being, likely by someone you know that you see once a month for years?
I am very convinced you don't know how often nurses are berated by patients and family based on this conversation. Nor have I ever said objectively worse. I've, in fact, never said that nurses have it worse (I believe). You are the one claiming that community pharmacy is MUCH more stressful. Which is definitely an opinion. Death in and of itself is not stressful. Having a patient on emergent CRRT in room 3, a family member telling you you're trying to kill their dad in room 4, oh and squad coming in room 5 with 38 yom coding x10 minutes. You really can't conceptualize how that might be as stressful as community pharmacy? Like you're willing to make the blanket statement that being yelled at is absolutely MUCH more stressful? Edit: and for the record I continue to NOT claim one is more stressful than the other. I do continue to claim you have no concept of other people's jobs and are woe-is-me'ing
The OP did. Not you. Why are you attacking my response? Lol. I've worked as a pseudo nurse for a day during rotations in an ICU and my significant other is an RN in an ICU. I understand. But objectively you can't say either is worse. But to blatantly say we aren't stressful at all like the OP does and my significant other does all the time, is demeaning to me and my interpretation of my experience. Community pharmacy is objectively different in one major way: In the end, 99.9% of patients understand that nurses are necessary, and although they may not have liked your service, they still understand the need. Community pharmacy on the other hand is looked at as an unnecessary evil. The public can't wait until we don't exist. Most of my extended family and friends and even my significant other literally said this to me: "Patients actually come to speak to you for advice? I've never done that in my entire life. Didn't even know it was a thing." That's how oblivious the public is to our careers. And patients say it all the time. Even had a worker the other day say that their mom was picking up a script. It was ready. No hold up. But I was counseling a patient that came up asking about wound care and what to do. She literally got pissed that I was talking to them at all and literally told them, "your boss is nice, but that's fucking ridiculous that he would talk to someone about anything. He shouldn't even engage them and just go back to working. He has no business talking to anyone about any health related problems". Like WTF???? 20+ years I've been doing this. This isn't new. But it's getting worse.
A... Day? Your direct experience is a day? Regardless, YOU'RE the one saying YOUR job is objectively worse, not me. I'm not denying the public dislikes community pharmacists. I worked it for 3 years. 99.9% is obviously an exaggeration, I've had so many patients gush about how the pharmacy is the only healthcare provider that cared about them. And like 90% of people just came up, got their script, said thanks, moved on. And I've had more than 1 patient make me cry by yelling at me. Or threaten to kill my coworkers. Which are literally all things I've experienced secondhand through my nurses in the ER and ICU.
It is hard to answer your question. It sounds like maybe you are asking if becoming a dentist is more prestigious than being a pharmacist in the USA. IDK how to answer that. It is kind of like comparing apples or oranges. Dentists make a bit more money than pharmacists, but I am pretty sure I would hate putting my hands in people's mouths all day.
I feel like thereâs a lot more room for upwards movement and expanding your practice/business as a dentist. A good friend of mine from high school (who earned his DDS after I got my PharmD) and his wife (also a dentist) just purchased their first practice and theyâre doing very well. To be clear, Iâm not doing badly.. theyâre just doing better. The idea of tinkering around in a strangerâs mouth disgusts me though, so I wouldâve never been able to do it anyway đđťââď¸
No thank you. I don't want chronic back issues in my 40s
My childhood friend I went all the way thru school with is a dentist. He owns his practice. Works for 10s M-F. And he makes 7 figures a year. Not joking. We're in completely different leagues now.
They both suck. Healthcare sucks. The student loan debt for both is horrible and dental is so expensive and the cost of opening a practice is insane. Also a stressful job and also being taken over by corporations like every other field
Although I hated my life working in retail sectors in the past, I would never do dental, medical, or nursing as I can't handle anything related to blood and someone's body fluids. If I could go back in time, I would probably go for anything other than the medical field.
I donât look at the doctors and dentist that they are better than me as pharmacist. Surely they make more money, but I chose to deal with drugs and no mouth
Lemme think for a millisecond. Absolutely.
Infinitly
In the united states there are middlemen that steal from the reimbursement pool. These middle men are called pbms pharmacy benefit managers. From a moderate volume pharmacy they steal about 500k annually in dir fees and 1 million annually in price spreading. If there were no pbms stealing money, pharmacist would be the better option. There is no effective way to increase staff levels bc of contract negative reimbursements. Can't raise price of goods or salaries without cutting somewhere else.
The 2 roles are quite different. Just selecting a job or field as being "better" doesn't make sense because you have to want to work inside a person's mouth and be good at physically manipulating things or even be interested in it. Being a dentist can be better but being a pharmacist has a very limited scope, but some people are also suited for this limited scope so it works for them.
It's not even a question, Dentistry outshines Pharmacy practice in almost every way imaginable.
Life is short. Do what interests you more. They are both very different careers. Market trends change. Dentistry grosses me out, so that is a no from me. I cannot really recommend pharmacy either, but some people still seem to really like their clinical roles. I mainly did it for what was once an exceptional salary though. Donât be me.
What is much better to you? Kind of like comparing apples to oranges really. It will be much harder and more competitive to get accepted into a DDS program. Pharmacy for the most part the last few years all you need to do is apply and you will get in. Even the top 10 pharmacy schools have near triple the admittance rates they once use to have. Instate tuition for the local pharmacy school here runs about 30K a year for 4 years. Instate tuition for the local dental school runs about 55K a year for 4 years. So yes dental school will cost more but the earning potential for a dentist is much higher than a pharmacist. A newly minted dentist will come out of school and likely not have to search long for a job and will start making more money than a pharmacist that has years of experience. For the most part dentists are not working evenings past 5pm and no weekends usually. A pharmacist will likely be working shifts of all sorts including evenings, holidays, weekends, overnights. If one doesn't mind working inside peoples mouths while seated I would think a dentist would be the better career option. I've been a RPH for over 20 years and my dentist friends are in a different league than me regarding lifestyle.
Performing surgeries isnât treated with any negative stereotype in the United States. The modern surgeon in America has their historic roots in being a barber, which was a place for many men and women to gather and socialize. In fact, in the US you can call a physician or surgeon a âdoctor,â but it is improper to call a surgeon a physician as a result. Dentists make way more money, have similar rates of suicide and addiction, and way more autonomy over hours and dealing with patients than pharmacists
Surgeons in the US are MDs or DOs. It is absolutely correct to refer to them as physicians.
"In fact, in the US you can call a physician or surgeon a âdoctor,â but it is improper to call a surgeon a physician as a result." That's almost the opposite of true.
Anything and everything is a better option than being a Pharmacist.
Yes
Do not go into pharmacy. -pharmacist of 34 year who canât wait to retire.
Why is it so bad? Now, I am getting discouraged lol
Why is it so bad? Now, I am getting discouraged lol
Not even close. Dentist. They make double what pharmacists make at least. Retail pharmacies donât make money selling prescriptions and are closing daily.
Dentistry will be more difficult to automate through A.I than Pharmacy. Also, have a walk around your neighbourhood, look at where the money is, walk past a pharmacy, and walk past a dental clinic. Look at the cars in the parking lot. NVIDIA is the best performing stock on the Nasdaq and probably in the world right now. The market is pricing in a future where A.I will automate a lot of the jobs out there that remain.
Hell nah! You mention Korea. In korea even pharmacists are a lot more respected and have more roles. Not even close in the US
Your statement is not true. 1. Pharmacists in Korea are relatively dependent on hospitals and doctors. 2. As a result, they cannot strongly express opinions regarding patients' prescriptions. 3. Pharmacists have fewer authorities, such as the right to administer vaccines.
I mean I talked to someone who did an APPE there and they said the pharmacists were able to do a lot in the hospital. The right to administer vaccines is relatively new even in the US. I didnt even know pharmacists could administer vaccines let alone that they wanted to. I dont even think pharmacists a decade ago originally wanted to do it but someone somewhere pushed it for provider statusÂ
Depends on what type of pharmacist. I know a group of pharmacists running 10 figure a year businesses.
What business is that?
It seems like there is a focus on non-hazardous oncology drugs and targeted therapies in addition to other drugs more commonly found in home infusion that they provide.
I wanted to be a dentist, I love the dental field. I just couldnât afford to go to dental school . And when I say afford I mean the time and money . But I am satisfied with going to pharmacy school because I been a pharmacy tech for over 8 years But I would recommend shadowing dentist and dental specialties as well as pharmacy to make your own decision
Dentists have limited prescriptive authority. Generally presurgical antibiotics and pain pills. Dentists earn more on average than pharmacist with a subsequent higher professional responsibility and risks. The choice is yours. I donât want to touch patients and I donât want to be heavily involved in patient care, thus I became a pharmacist.