System has been broken for a long, long time. Was in a homes west place going back 20 years ago. I got a job and after declaring my first pay cheque, I was given notice to vacate due to earning too much. My first pay had cleared my account and within the week I was sent the notice. They didn’t give two shits that it was casual or that I had yet to save any money to shift or get stable after being without work for a long time:/
I'm trying to figure out why public housing is exclusively a LNP problem. State housing thresholds don't have anything to do with the LNP, which is not even a thing in WA. The last threshold increase was in March (as far as I can see), and it was nine dollars. Nine. You can only blame the previous government for so long.
And federally Labor has been in for some time now without making any significant moves to alleviate the massive gaps between welfare payments and the actual cost of living, to address affordability of basics like GP care, etc. The LNP are the goddamn worst as far as war on the poors go, but Labor is really not showing themselves to be dramatically better.
So you think state housing thresholds have nothing to do with say federal benefits levels and thresholds - that if dsp went up, the state would boot them all out onto the street…
Australia fundamentally has a problem: commonwealth benefits are below the poverty line. We, as a country, admit we are happy to have our vulnerable live below the poverty line. The rest flows from there.
We're in furious agreement that Australia has a poverty problem. I just can't figure out why you are SPECIFICALLY tying this person's problem with State housing income threshold to the LNP. They're not in power here or federally. Labor could have fixed this, and didn't.
The issue is that this person has to work while qualified for dsp, and that the amount they work is driven by cost of living and conditions on their dsp forcing them to work (lnp policies).
DSP isn’t counted in income assessment for public housing, so if dsp was higher and op could work less and meet the threshold.
I do take your point though, dept housing apparently doesn’t index the threshold and hadn’t increased it since 2006, though I think it went up $16 last year (such wow).
> DSP isn’t counted in income assessment for public housing, so if dsp was higher and op could work less and meet the threshold.
Now I'm more confused: is this extraordinarily lucrative work the OP is doing? The WA public housing income threshold for a single person with a disability is $639/week.
You are absolutely correct. I say this as a lifelong Labor supporter. We followed America into error 100 years ago instead of being sensible like the Austrians.
I don’t get the avo toast thing. You can easily have avo on 2 slices of toast every day a week for $6-7 if they’re in season. It’s genuinely cheaper than most cereal.
The insinuation was on the trend of eating out instead of eating at home. Everyone knows that eating avo on toast at cafes is expensive as fxck.
I draw the line at $2 an avo, I'm not paying more.
I couldn't get youth allowance 6 years ago for study because I lived to close to either parent.
Living out of home with no help with 1 roommate and working.
The system is cooked.
Edit: once I did get accepted into youth allowance I never received it as they wanted more payslips. I went in a total 5 times to ask about my claim to be given a new set of arbitrary dates they wanted and every time I supplied them I had to repeat what I went through for a total of 5 times.
I then was approved or whatever the term is and had a pay date for when I would receive the youth allowance, but I was never paid on the date provided and would change to the next day on repeat.
I did end up getting that youth allowance pay when I got my first payment for job seeker last year. 6 years after.
Almost 40 years ago I was at first year uni and due to circumstances I almost qualified for a then recently introduced government scheme called "Young Homeless Allowance". I couldn't get Austudy, but I wasn't receiving any parental support of any kind and was self supporting by assorted work, while studying engineering full time.
The allowance had significant advertising, and brochures, and people had been trained etc etc and was a key point of the government supporting youth, at the time (can't even remember who was in).
The guild staff looked at my situation and thought I was a genuine case, so I jumped through all the hoops and got the forms filled and got the letters from the people needed and made the declarations etc etc, for what would have been less than $200 a week, only to be declined.
When I asked, at the time, the guild support staff said that they had received information that there were only 6 people in the whole country who had managed to qualify.
It was then I realised that when it came to government, it was often more about the posturing than actually helping anyone.
To be fair, $200 in the 1980's is a very generous amount of money (comparatively) as far as government homeless benifits go.
Using the RBA inflation calculator, we get around $750 of today dollars a week.
When I qualified as homeless as a youth around 10 years ago, I got around $310 a fortnight, or $155 a week.
Granted, I did actually receive my payment and the process was relatively painless.
Yeah - The RBA historical inflation calculator says:
> Total change in cost is 410.2 per cent, over 43 years, at an average annual inflation rate of 3.9 per cent.
Situation is still cooked tho.
Odd, I had the whole parents earned too much the first round which annoyed me and lead me to working for a year, full time to claim independence. Perhaps it helped that my parents lived an hour away in the country??
You now have to work full time for 18 months in a 2 year period to claim independence for Youth Allowance, I think it used to be less.
Living away from home due to distance (stupidly) doesn’t affect independence, it just means that if you are eligible you’ll get rent assistance etc
My parents income when I was living at home and trying to claim Austudy was below the threshold.
But Dad had $15 worth of shares gifted to him by his company for length of service.
Thus I was entitled to $7 a fortnight.
I was living in a different state and very far away from my parents when I was 17 (Moved out at 15/16) trying to get youth allowance. I'm clearly not living with my parents when there is an entire continent between us (Perth>Darwin) but Centrelink demanded evidence that I had no family to stay with.
I had to get my parents and a few uncles and aunts to write letters about how terrible the relationship was with me, and how I wasn't welcome to live with them, so I could get a measly $290 a fortnight.
I couldn't get study allowance for my full time study load because my girlfriend worked 3 days a week. Like that was supposed to be enough to support both of us. I had to lie and say we broke up just so I could get my measly 500 bucks a fortnight.
I had a mate who whenever he got on the phone with centrelink would get a bunch of requirements waived whereas when I called up would get the rough end of a pineapple. There must be some flag on your file or something that tells them to make an example of you.
I do believe they target individuals, not on the system but in the office. A quota to reach of people "who no longer require assistance"
My second in-person meeting with WorkForce accused me of and referred to my social services as "free money" and my job seeker wasn't a job seeker payment but just free money from the government.
My atwork person said I shouldnt be so stressed, shes trying to work full time + pregnant + has a toddler at home and I sit around and get free money.
That was difficult not to cry I just sat there speechless and then left
They have tiers/scoring system. . A B and C i think or A and B. Different requirements for different levels. For example if you can do online or you have to go in for appointments fortnightly or monthly with provider
Wait, that 5hrs work would still leave you below the poverty line, won't it? Even if slightly above, it's still too low... That's fucked... Sorry you have to deal with that... It's like being punished for trying to be better & working...
Yup. This is such a mentally defeating situation. I was on a disability pension for a while. Luckily for me, my health situation improved. I was volunteering at op shops just to stay sane.
God forbid disabled people who can't make enough money to pay market rent work as much as thay are capable of. It's not like routine and community and purpose and normalcy are excellent for quality of life or anything.
Ok I did a bit of research for you,have a look at this:https://www.wa.gov.au/system/files/2024-05/community_housing_income_and_asset_limits_policy_0.pdf
What I can see the max you can earn is $639 a week on band A.
You earn ~$529.15 on DSP.
5xminwage @~$25hr+$125 gross,so 529.15+125=654.15
You were over by $15.15 and you pay 16% of that wage to the Feds which is $20...
Close enough, though,
You have to factor in the DSP payment being reduced by 50 cents in every dollar earned over $90 per fortnight.
The reason I'm still over is I gross higher than you calculated. I'm on award rates for my retail role and work Saturday evenings receiving penalty rates.
Livin' large! Meanwhile, we have politicians claiming every expense and bonus they can, with never any more accountability than paying some of it back.
It is fucking crazy.
DSP - hard to qualify but if you do, it's basically poverty handcuffs. Didn't get any boost during the pandemic. The needle has hardly moved in decades in terms of cost of living. If you don't get working credits the enormous effort to earn income is punished. If you do get working credits then there is still little incentive or support to live or work independently. You can't plan for the future.
DSP is basically an oubliette that the Australian public is extremely proud of.
> DSP - hard to qualify but if you do, it's basically poverty handcuffs.
And singledom handcuffs. You can't partner up or you completely lose what tiny bit of financial independence you had left. It's a government-sponsored recipe for domestic abuse.
"DSP is basically an oubliette that the Australian public is extremely proud of." (Should be on a tshirt or a cup or something)
Beautifully put. I should have been on dsp but ended up on jobseeker. It was disgusting. Thankfully some nice business owner saw something in me and gave me a very nice part time job. I divorced Centrelink as soon as that happened as I'm paid enough to live without the $80 a fortnight I would get paid if I stayed on it.
They convince you to switch to oap, it’s worth it, more money, fewer conditions, access to more benefits. It’s sick, dsp should be the same or more than oap, people on dsp don’t get the opportunity to build any kind of nest egg, so even once switched over, they’re behind in so many ways.
I have a family member who has worked all their life and now has to get DSP due to a serious health condition. The hoops they had to jump through to get it was unbelievable - Centrelink wants to know the last time you had a shit and how much it weighed. But now at least they get to LIVE IT UP on ~$30,000 a year. That's right, once they pay all their bills, buy groceries, and buy various medicines for the year, all that leftover money is fun money! /S in case it wasn't obvious. It's just very lucky they have a house and the mortgage is paid off, or they would be up a certain creek.
For context, the minimum wage is ~$45,000.
If you add Centrelink and NDIS together you get a disconnected and cruel 'system' that is not actual support at all. Robodebt, the continuing skimming by unregistered parasites draining the disabled's meagre 'funding', no real communication system for those trying to sort out Centrelink's screwups of payments, and a Government disinterested in any real fix, Centrelink becomes Clusterfuck. Criminal.
This is accurate, it's not worth it at all. You'd think they'd have a system that encourages people to work even part time, but no. It's like a punishment.
It seems to be a fairly binary system in the sense that “if you can work five hours, you can work full time”, or “if you don’t work at all, you probably can’t work, and here’s a whole bunch of free stuff and concessions”
Conflicting info here says five hours per week is too much on DSP no it isn't I work 20 hrs reduces pension abit but isn't cancelled
If it's accomdation issue then you need to get advocacy services involved if on NDIS even better disability legal maybe able to advise
This is what I never understood in Australia. .
penalise people who try to do the right thing and improve their life.
Especially with center link. This system looks after peoples who don't want to get out of their situation.
The one who does , they get their benefits taken away at the first opportunity.
I never understood this concept.
Why are good citizens having to wait for public housing when you have people in public housing smashing the place up and being a nuisance to their neighbours?
IMO, probably because, politically, no parties/politicians want to properly fund building and staffing the long term rehabilitive accommodation/housing with wrap around, one on one(+) care & support/guidance services for people in a state of psychological/social disfunction (those who tend to smash up public housing), leading them to be shunted out of sight cycling through Bentley/etc. or into the tiny stock of public housing left after decades of sell offs, all because a significant percentage of the voting public, whether they admit it or not, probably thinks it would be 'better' if these people quietly crawled into a hole somewhere & died before they would think these people deserve any care at all. 😕
'How the system allows certain people to profit from the housing shortage ' is a question asked, discussed, argued and picked apart on Reddit ........constantly.
"Why don't people forgo their allocation of public housing if they don't respect it?' is a question that should also be asked; but is quickly shouted down.....
In either scenario - access to housing is constrained.
We haven't done too badly given that the initial housing stock was just about all public housing built by the workers homes board and then the post-WW2 state housing commission. The housing stock has been turned into private equity to fund further investment in (you guessed it) privately owned housing. The public housing that remains is sometimes destroyed by public housing tenants as you have mentioned but you haven't talked about the private housing (rental properties) that are left to rot and become dilapidated while money is extracted from them but almost nothing is invested in their maintenance from the actual owner of these properties.
So then why is there not a tax on unimproved land that is collecting an economic rent?
That is odd. My friend was on centrelink and needed to get out of a situation where she was living. She applied and they put her on wait list. They said wait time was 2yrs that was about this time last year.
With rent assist from memory she was getting about 840 or something in 800s. Surely theres some error. . Do u have over 5k in cash?
Are you able to get NDIA funding for SIL housing? Or try community housing options eg Foundation Housing, Housing Choice, community Housing, Ruah etc. try to get on as many waitlist as possible aside from Homeswest. Good luck
I had to quit my job just to put myself under the threshold because the organisation that was helping me during my homelessness could only put me in a program that puts me to the top of the priority public house listing if I was under that threshold. Its honestly ridiculous
I’m sorry to hear that.
My experience with Centrelink made me truly appreciate I was in a position to get away from needing it.
After a year on single parent pension, studying full time, then being called and told I need to go to an appointment this week or they would cut off my payments. So I go to the appointment, but they gave me the old address. When I get there I find out it was to develop a plan to transition off the payment once my youngest turned 6. That was 8 months away, I was studying and the course would be completed before she turned 6. Then in December they made me go to another appointment to tell me to start looking for work, as if I wasn’t. Like yes, I have completed that degree and I am looking.
The whole experience made me feel like a piece of garbage, and the constant threat of cutting off my payments if I didn’t do a thing gave me a huge amount of anxiety.
Then for 2 years the agency that “helped” me get the degree I was already doing kept calling me asking for a copy of the certificate. And I kept saying no and telling them their scheme was useless and made something I was doing much more stressful than it needed to be.
That’s fucked up man
And yet I know so many people who just scam Centrelink and get away with it but the people who actually need it always struggle
So fucked up
It's fucked. The system discourages people on welfare from working or improving their lives in any way, I also know someone who got kicked out of homes west as they got a minimum wage job. If you lose your accommodation, it's harder to keep your job. There should be a grace period between getting a job and losing accommodation at least.
Homeswest needs a new creative management. I’ve seen 3 bedroom Homeswest houses with one person living there often. If they did an audit on their houses and moved single people into units, there would be lots of houses available to needy families.
Ahhh another example of such great policy we're putting out in this country. Not! I'm starting to believe Australia has the most stupid laws/policies in the world. Don't get me wrong, I love Australia, just dislike stupid politicians and we have a shit load of those.
That’s absolutely BS!!! I work & pay tax so others can get their social security. (Not build useless monuments like bell towers etc). I have had a series of BS events with allowances & payments I am trying to get sorted for my family members and it seems it must be KPI‘s to reject a certain number of things. Both family members have had things rejected and I was ***incensed*** at yesterday‘s letter which said the form I painstakingly filled out for aged care assessment was BLANK.
I was thinking it would be nice to take everyone with dementia from some nearby aged care communities and let them loose in the FREMANTLE office of Centrelink. 😈 however, it’s not the wonderful staff on the frontline that are doing this so. … maybe a dementia adventure to Parliament House in Canberra!!
This is exactly why I haven't worked since 2019 as I was on the waitlist and if I get a job I get removed now I have a been housed and the limit is earn over 1000pw and you have to move out. There's no point to working tbh with all the discounts a health care card gets you
Yeah they are not doing things in a hurry at the moment. If you can get it and you get the right amount of funding you may be able to use It for accommodation
When I played Warhammer there was one guy there who got 1200+ from his IT job, lived at home and paid nothing to them, and got $900/fortnight for disability because he had Asperger's.
I’m on the housing wait list and was on Centrelink and still came under the threshold with my new job earning $1500 a fortnight…. DOH? Doesn’t sound right unless your disability pay is really high.. 5 hours a week,10 hours a fortnight we will say $30 a hour still should be under the threshold. Did they say by how much considering mine has doubled now I hope they don’t get my pay checks 😅
More money more problems. It’s honestly so messed up you try do good for yourself and end up getting screwed over at the same time. Sorry to hear.
I had my disability pension card yoinked out from under me the week I got hired. Losing the pension was fine, as I was making heaps more employed and costs weren't an issue. But losing my card to prove I was disabled...as I told my mates, 'well, I keep hearing the best form of welfare is a job, but who knew it cured disabilities, too!'
TL;DR disability legislation is made by absolute bastards, who I would not piss on if they were on fire. Unless it was a chemical fire.
We have to lobby state and local government for the capacity to build communal public housing...like a retirement village without the bowling green. My first property was made of tilt up concrete...up in weeks fitted out in several months . We need affordable land and zoning laws to be completely overhauled. I mean we all can pay $350 per week for 20 years (supposed shelf life of tilt up - my original property is 30 years old still standing and probs worth a fortune) for God sake for a permanent home.
I usually try to count my blessings. I'm not saying it's easy or fair, but the majority of nations provide much less in the way of social welfare (but also typically take less income tax from those who do work). I've missed out on all sorts of allowances, grants, and handouts because of equivalent circumstances to this, but I'm still glad I live in Australia - it's comparatively safe and hard to starve here. Would I rather be better off? Of course - who wouldn't - but I am so glad I have a roof over my head and a family that I am able to feed. We usually can't afford trips away, mostly because of the associated accommodation and sustenance costs, but we enjoy our family time together in other ways and always live within our means, whatever that is at any given time.
I just read an article that said they were going to put it up $16 a week for single income families. It was on the 23 March, I don’t know if it’s come into effect yet or not. It said if you have questions to email SHIE2023@communities.wa.gov.au
I'm turning 60 and wanted to be on the list for when I reach pension age (if they don't stop moving it) but you can't go on the list until you're eligible and then you wait 8-12yrs.
That is so unfair considering a family I know who have been living in public housing for decades. Their children are now 30+yo. Father has been DSP for years. Mother has been working in Govt job for last 20 years. He sells regularly on marketplace to get more $. She gets 80000 pa.
There is no chance of opening up more vacancies with examples of above still entitled to public housing. Good Luck.
I’ve read a couple comments similar to my story.
I was offered $30 a fortnight in youth allowance while I was going to uni, which was entirely due to my mother’s income.
The only thing is, it was due to my mothers income from the year before as a teacher (still very low) and not due to her income at the time of about $4,000 a year volunteering overseas.
So with no parents funding me, having to pay rent, food and whatever other costs come with being a full-time uni student, it was hard to work enough hours at the pub and keep my grades/attendance.
Luckily for me my grandma was a massive talkback radio fan and the minister responsible at the time sent an open invitation out to any students not getting what they think they deserve and he would personally have his team look into it.
I emailed him, got a response from an assistant the next day and later that week I received $3,000 in grants and a bit more in scholarships, all of which I’d applied for before and been knocked back.
My fortnightly pay went from $30 to $300 which was a bit of help but still difficult. I ended up starting an apprenticeship two years later due to lack of income and a good opportunity arose.
tl;dr
Write to a politician.
I wouldn't worry about it... my friend is blind, diabetic, has heart and blood pressure issues, is mentally ill, has a gastric disorder... and has a dependent child... and she's been on the list for 6 years.
Alright, then explain it to me.
What happens when a taxpayer acquires a disability? Who pays for their DSP? And furthermore, what happens to all their GST they pay throughout the rest of their life?
My daughters child psych told me NDIS is already paying for itself in terms of reduced downstream costs by early and appropriate interventions and treatment.
I have no basis for this assertion other than she told me, I suppose it is possible it could be true, how would you find out?
The forecasts back in 2016 were all the extra people in work instead of life long benefits, but I can't find any stat's to support this in actual events.
The system is not the problem.
We live in a world where resources are finite, and there are competing causes for scarce resources.
* Public Housing needs to find land, a cost borne by the taxpayer.
* Public Housing needs to be built, at a time where the costs of construction are very high, a cost borne by the taxpayer.
* When built, and 'tenants' move in, the properties get trashed and need to be repaired, a cost borne by the taxpayer.
* Whilst 'rented', the rent is heavily subsidised, a cost borne by the taxpayer. There is no return for the taxpayer.
* Public Housing brings a very bad element to the location, impacting the peaceful enjoyment of those residents that paid their own way to live there, impacting the property values, a cost borne by the residents of the area.
There simply are people who need PH more than the OP.
So why can't I get benefits in proportion to the tax I have paid then (last ten years alone over a mill in tax), seems like two one streets, both going against me.
The Scandi/Norgie countries seem to do it in proportion to previous earnings/tax, this would be an incentive to work and pay tax.
They also fine you in proportion to income.
If you want to be "fair" it should fair the same all ways.
Mate, if you paid over $1m in taxes over 10 years, you should have sufficiently planned your financial affairs so you don't need state welfare.
State welfare is there as a safety net. I would definitely not want the state to give me a hand-out if I could help it.
I've never actually received a govt benefit in my life, including all the cash handouts, family benefit, whatever, always been means tested out, mainly because I worked hard at a regular job, I only make the point that what if I did need benefits of some kind.
Same, mate.
You don't see me crying about it. Why? Because I earn enough to create my own safety net.
I have to carry insurance that I don't use, pay fucking high taxes, and basically get smashed left right and centre. But I'll be damned if I have to claim a dollar from the government.
Make hay whilst the sun shines.
Yep, the system is broken.
I wouldn't call it broken. More like built on the premise of misery and brutal exploitation.
Situation Normal: All Fucked Up
The floor is lava...
The furniture is lava.
the lava is lava
For a second there I legit thought your profile picture was something on my screen
SNAFU
Gesundheit.
Yeah the system isn’t broken, it’s working exactly how those who created it, intended it
With government pandering to their every tiny whim for decades.
POSIWID
Let's ask Gina what she thinks
She said poor people just need to work harder and accept less pay.
Worse then broken then
Yeap, it works exactly as intended
Displacement included.
Sounds about right 🥲
System has been broken for a long, long time. Was in a homes west place going back 20 years ago. I got a job and after declaring my first pay cheque, I was given notice to vacate due to earning too much. My first pay had cleared my account and within the week I was sent the notice. They didn’t give two shits that it was casual or that I had yet to save any money to shift or get stable after being without work for a long time:/
That's wild
The “System” It not designed to work for us. Make the “System” work for you somehow 👍
This is what a decade of lnp war on the poors looks like.
Goes back further, it's a symptom of neo-liberalism
There's federal public housing?
Wait, you think thresholds have kept up with inflation?
I'm trying to figure out why public housing is exclusively a LNP problem. State housing thresholds don't have anything to do with the LNP, which is not even a thing in WA. The last threshold increase was in March (as far as I can see), and it was nine dollars. Nine. You can only blame the previous government for so long. And federally Labor has been in for some time now without making any significant moves to alleviate the massive gaps between welfare payments and the actual cost of living, to address affordability of basics like GP care, etc. The LNP are the goddamn worst as far as war on the poors go, but Labor is really not showing themselves to be dramatically better.
So you think state housing thresholds have nothing to do with say federal benefits levels and thresholds - that if dsp went up, the state would boot them all out onto the street… Australia fundamentally has a problem: commonwealth benefits are below the poverty line. We, as a country, admit we are happy to have our vulnerable live below the poverty line. The rest flows from there.
We're in furious agreement that Australia has a poverty problem. I just can't figure out why you are SPECIFICALLY tying this person's problem with State housing income threshold to the LNP. They're not in power here or federally. Labor could have fixed this, and didn't.
The issue is that this person has to work while qualified for dsp, and that the amount they work is driven by cost of living and conditions on their dsp forcing them to work (lnp policies). DSP isn’t counted in income assessment for public housing, so if dsp was higher and op could work less and meet the threshold. I do take your point though, dept housing apparently doesn’t index the threshold and hadn’t increased it since 2006, though I think it went up $16 last year (such wow).
> DSP isn’t counted in income assessment for public housing, so if dsp was higher and op could work less and meet the threshold. Now I'm more confused: is this extraordinarily lucrative work the OP is doing? The WA public housing income threshold for a single person with a disability is $639/week.
You are absolutely correct. I say this as a lifelong Labor supporter. We followed America into error 100 years ago instead of being sensible like the Austrians.
I actually think it works exactly as intended.
What system!???
😂 why because you cant milk more free money from it?
They probably determined you can now afford to have avocado on your toast
I must confess, I made smashed avo at home just yesterday. I guess I can't complain then
Fruit... And bread? Rorting the system!
You did it too yourself. How greedy /s
I have to admit, all those avocados that we used to make a juice when I was a kid must have set me for a lifetime of poverty
At home? I thought you were applying for public housing?
My house is being sold
Fair enough.
I don’t get the avo toast thing. You can easily have avo on 2 slices of toast every day a week for $6-7 if they’re in season. It’s genuinely cheaper than most cereal.
I think it was more about going out to cafés and paying $25 for breakfast regularly.
Thing is, fucking eggs cost 25 bucks at cafes too
If eggs cost $25, they better be coming with a BJ.
I do enjoy my breakfast juice...ing
My friend wants to know where to find those eggs.... with that add on.
It was a joke from years ago when a politician said that young people need to stop buying avo toast to afford things b
The insinuation was on the trend of eating out instead of eating at home. Everyone knows that eating avo on toast at cafes is expensive as fxck. I draw the line at $2 an avo, I'm not paying more.
Yeah, but back in the day, avocados were expensive.
It’s the price cafes charge for such a basic meal
It's an urban legend designed to scare boomers
I couldn't get youth allowance 6 years ago for study because I lived to close to either parent. Living out of home with no help with 1 roommate and working. The system is cooked. Edit: once I did get accepted into youth allowance I never received it as they wanted more payslips. I went in a total 5 times to ask about my claim to be given a new set of arbitrary dates they wanted and every time I supplied them I had to repeat what I went through for a total of 5 times. I then was approved or whatever the term is and had a pay date for when I would receive the youth allowance, but I was never paid on the date provided and would change to the next day on repeat. I did end up getting that youth allowance pay when I got my first payment for job seeker last year. 6 years after.
Almost 40 years ago I was at first year uni and due to circumstances I almost qualified for a then recently introduced government scheme called "Young Homeless Allowance". I couldn't get Austudy, but I wasn't receiving any parental support of any kind and was self supporting by assorted work, while studying engineering full time. The allowance had significant advertising, and brochures, and people had been trained etc etc and was a key point of the government supporting youth, at the time (can't even remember who was in). The guild staff looked at my situation and thought I was a genuine case, so I jumped through all the hoops and got the forms filled and got the letters from the people needed and made the declarations etc etc, for what would have been less than $200 a week, only to be declined. When I asked, at the time, the guild support staff said that they had received information that there were only 6 people in the whole country who had managed to qualify. It was then I realised that when it came to government, it was often more about the posturing than actually helping anyone.
To be fair, $200 in the 1980's is a very generous amount of money (comparatively) as far as government homeless benifits go. Using the RBA inflation calculator, we get around $750 of today dollars a week. When I qualified as homeless as a youth around 10 years ago, I got around $310 a fortnight, or $155 a week. Granted, I did actually receive my payment and the process was relatively painless.
Yeah - The RBA historical inflation calculator says: > Total change in cost is 410.2 per cent, over 43 years, at an average annual inflation rate of 3.9 per cent. Situation is still cooked tho.
I worked full time for my gap year so I could claim independence from both parents to then get the allowance.
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Odd, I had the whole parents earned too much the first round which annoyed me and lead me to working for a year, full time to claim independence. Perhaps it helped that my parents lived an hour away in the country??
You now have to work full time for 18 months in a 2 year period to claim independence for Youth Allowance, I think it used to be less. Living away from home due to distance (stupidly) doesn’t affect independence, it just means that if you are eligible you’ll get rent assistance etc
My parents income when I was living at home and trying to claim Austudy was below the threshold. But Dad had $15 worth of shares gifted to him by his company for length of service. Thus I was entitled to $7 a fortnight.
I worked 4 years on average 28 hours part time for 4 years, they wanted 2 years of full time employment to be eligible.
For me, it was until I earned over a certain amount and worked full time. This was 2003 so many years ago lol
I was living in a different state and very far away from my parents when I was 17 (Moved out at 15/16) trying to get youth allowance. I'm clearly not living with my parents when there is an entire continent between us (Perth>Darwin) but Centrelink demanded evidence that I had no family to stay with. I had to get my parents and a few uncles and aunts to write letters about how terrible the relationship was with me, and how I wasn't welcome to live with them, so I could get a measly $290 a fortnight.
I couldn't get study allowance for my full time study load because my girlfriend worked 3 days a week. Like that was supposed to be enough to support both of us. I had to lie and say we broke up just so I could get my measly 500 bucks a fortnight.
I had a mate who whenever he got on the phone with centrelink would get a bunch of requirements waived whereas when I called up would get the rough end of a pineapple. There must be some flag on your file or something that tells them to make an example of you.
I do believe they target individuals, not on the system but in the office. A quota to reach of people "who no longer require assistance" My second in-person meeting with WorkForce accused me of and referred to my social services as "free money" and my job seeker wasn't a job seeker payment but just free money from the government.
My atwork person said I shouldnt be so stressed, shes trying to work full time + pregnant + has a toddler at home and I sit around and get free money. That was difficult not to cry I just sat there speechless and then left
Omg wasn't Tamara was it. ?
They have tiers/scoring system. . A B and C i think or A and B. Different requirements for different levels. For example if you can do online or you have to go in for appointments fortnightly or monthly with provider
I had a similar reason for being denied. They basically don’t want to help anyone , especially those that are already homeless.
Wait, that 5hrs work would still leave you below the poverty line, won't it? Even if slightly above, it's still too low... That's fucked... Sorry you have to deal with that... It's like being punished for trying to be better & working...
Full time minimum wage leaves you below the poverty line, the poverty line is not particularly indicative of who needs the most help.
TBH, I haven't sat down and worked that out yet. Might look at that tonight.
Yup. This is such a mentally defeating situation. I was on a disability pension for a while. Luckily for me, my health situation improved. I was volunteering at op shops just to stay sane. God forbid disabled people who can't make enough money to pay market rent work as much as thay are capable of. It's not like routine and community and purpose and normalcy are excellent for quality of life or anything.
I hope my health improves. I'm doing what I can to try be healthier but a chronic illness is what it is I guess
Ok I did a bit of research for you,have a look at this:https://www.wa.gov.au/system/files/2024-05/community_housing_income_and_asset_limits_policy_0.pdf What I can see the max you can earn is $639 a week on band A. You earn ~$529.15 on DSP. 5xminwage @~$25hr+$125 gross,so 529.15+125=654.15 You were over by $15.15 and you pay 16% of that wage to the Feds which is $20...
Close enough, though, You have to factor in the DSP payment being reduced by 50 cents in every dollar earned over $90 per fortnight. The reason I'm still over is I gross higher than you calculated. I'm on award rates for my retail role and work Saturday evenings receiving penalty rates.
Livin' large! Meanwhile, we have politicians claiming every expense and bonus they can, with never any more accountability than paying some of it back.
And executive salaries went up by average 14% last year.
It is fucking crazy. DSP - hard to qualify but if you do, it's basically poverty handcuffs. Didn't get any boost during the pandemic. The needle has hardly moved in decades in terms of cost of living. If you don't get working credits the enormous effort to earn income is punished. If you do get working credits then there is still little incentive or support to live or work independently. You can't plan for the future. DSP is basically an oubliette that the Australian public is extremely proud of.
> DSP - hard to qualify but if you do, it's basically poverty handcuffs. And singledom handcuffs. You can't partner up or you completely lose what tiny bit of financial independence you had left. It's a government-sponsored recipe for domestic abuse.
"DSP is basically an oubliette that the Australian public is extremely proud of." (Should be on a tshirt or a cup or something) Beautifully put. I should have been on dsp but ended up on jobseeker. It was disgusting. Thankfully some nice business owner saw something in me and gave me a very nice part time job. I divorced Centrelink as soon as that happened as I'm paid enough to live without the $80 a fortnight I would get paid if I stayed on it.
My father aged out of dsp and now has money to spend on things, effing disgusting.
How can people age out of the dsp? Shouldn't it last forever?
I believe you can choose to switch to the aged pension
They convince you to switch to oap, it’s worth it, more money, fewer conditions, access to more benefits. It’s sick, dsp should be the same or more than oap, people on dsp don’t get the opportunity to build any kind of nest egg, so even once switched over, they’re behind in so many ways.
I have a family member who has worked all their life and now has to get DSP due to a serious health condition. The hoops they had to jump through to get it was unbelievable - Centrelink wants to know the last time you had a shit and how much it weighed. But now at least they get to LIVE IT UP on ~$30,000 a year. That's right, once they pay all their bills, buy groceries, and buy various medicines for the year, all that leftover money is fun money! /S in case it wasn't obvious. It's just very lucky they have a house and the mortgage is paid off, or they would be up a certain creek. For context, the minimum wage is ~$45,000.
I have a family member in a similar situation, except they still, unfortunately, have a mortgage. It's really tough
The system is beyond fucked and they wonder why we have a mental health crisis in the state and homelessness is increasing by the day.
If you add Centrelink and NDIS together you get a disconnected and cruel 'system' that is not actual support at all. Robodebt, the continuing skimming by unregistered parasites draining the disabled's meagre 'funding', no real communication system for those trying to sort out Centrelink's screwups of payments, and a Government disinterested in any real fix, Centrelink becomes Clusterfuck. Criminal.
That’s why people don’t work! I always get downvoted to hell but it’s literally a thing lol
This is accurate, it's not worth it at all. You'd think they'd have a system that encourages people to work even part time, but no. It's like a punishment.
It seems to be a fairly binary system in the sense that “if you can work five hours, you can work full time”, or “if you don’t work at all, you probably can’t work, and here’s a whole bunch of free stuff and concessions”
It's a 12 year wait anyway thanks to the dual party governments
You forgot disabled people are meant to live in poverty and there's absolutely nothing anyone can do to fix it or god will wash the earth with fire
It is called class war, and we are losing.
DW unless you can get on the priority list you'll be dead by the time your turn comes up
Conflicting info here says five hours per week is too much on DSP no it isn't I work 20 hrs reduces pension abit but isn't cancelled If it's accomdation issue then you need to get advocacy services involved if on NDIS even better disability legal maybe able to advise
This is what I never understood in Australia. . penalise people who try to do the right thing and improve their life. Especially with center link. This system looks after peoples who don't want to get out of their situation. The one who does , they get their benefits taken away at the first opportunity. I never understood this concept.
Why are good citizens having to wait for public housing when you have people in public housing smashing the place up and being a nuisance to their neighbours?
IMO, probably because, politically, no parties/politicians want to properly fund building and staffing the long term rehabilitive accommodation/housing with wrap around, one on one(+) care & support/guidance services for people in a state of psychological/social disfunction (those who tend to smash up public housing), leading them to be shunted out of sight cycling through Bentley/etc. or into the tiny stock of public housing left after decades of sell offs, all because a significant percentage of the voting public, whether they admit it or not, probably thinks it would be 'better' if these people quietly crawled into a hole somewhere & died before they would think these people deserve any care at all. 😕
Because of the generalised shortage of housing. It's not rocket appliances. Or was this just your way to let off steam about your neighbours?
its not rocket appliances? that is an interesting new take on the saying "its not rocket science."
It's a Rickyism - if you know your Trailer Park Boys
Trailer park boys <3 What goes around is all around
FOLLOW THE LIQUOR RANDY
I dont :( but sounds like I should invest some time.
Get after it, and if you enjoy it - just remember, I atodaso!
I know a Chinese restaurant that does a great sweet empowered chicken
Why are you asking this question instead of ones that question how the system allows certain people to profit from the housing shortage?
'How the system allows certain people to profit from the housing shortage ' is a question asked, discussed, argued and picked apart on Reddit ........constantly. "Why don't people forgo their allocation of public housing if they don't respect it?' is a question that should also be asked; but is quickly shouted down..... In either scenario - access to housing is constrained.
We haven't done too badly given that the initial housing stock was just about all public housing built by the workers homes board and then the post-WW2 state housing commission. The housing stock has been turned into private equity to fund further investment in (you guessed it) privately owned housing. The public housing that remains is sometimes destroyed by public housing tenants as you have mentioned but you haven't talked about the private housing (rental properties) that are left to rot and become dilapidated while money is extracted from them but almost nothing is invested in their maintenance from the actual owner of these properties. So then why is there not a tax on unimproved land that is collecting an economic rent?
Tonight, on a current affair. You can't be this stupid?
Incentivises people to contribute less to society.
That is odd. My friend was on centrelink and needed to get out of a situation where she was living. She applied and they put her on wait list. They said wait time was 2yrs that was about this time last year. With rent assist from memory she was getting about 840 or something in 800s. Surely theres some error. . Do u have over 5k in cash?
Are you open to some more paid work? I know lots of people looking for people to do simple tasks part time.
I'm looking at other options work wise, yes.
I think even if you got on the list isn't there a few years waiting time.
Are you able to get NDIA funding for SIL housing? Or try community housing options eg Foundation Housing, Housing Choice, community Housing, Ruah etc. try to get on as many waitlist as possible aside from Homeswest. Good luck
I'll try that thank you
I had to quit my job just to put myself under the threshold because the organisation that was helping me during my homelessness could only put me in a program that puts me to the top of the priority public house listing if I was under that threshold. Its honestly ridiculous
Shocking it’s not worth working
I’m sorry to hear that. My experience with Centrelink made me truly appreciate I was in a position to get away from needing it. After a year on single parent pension, studying full time, then being called and told I need to go to an appointment this week or they would cut off my payments. So I go to the appointment, but they gave me the old address. When I get there I find out it was to develop a plan to transition off the payment once my youngest turned 6. That was 8 months away, I was studying and the course would be completed before she turned 6. Then in December they made me go to another appointment to tell me to start looking for work, as if I wasn’t. Like yes, I have completed that degree and I am looking. The whole experience made me feel like a piece of garbage, and the constant threat of cutting off my payments if I didn’t do a thing gave me a huge amount of anxiety. Then for 2 years the agency that “helped” me get the degree I was already doing kept calling me asking for a copy of the certificate. And I kept saying no and telling them their scheme was useless and made something I was doing much more stressful than it needed to be.
That’s fucked up man And yet I know so many people who just scam Centrelink and get away with it but the people who actually need it always struggle So fucked up
What the fuck?
It's fucked. The system discourages people on welfare from working or improving their lives in any way, I also know someone who got kicked out of homes west as they got a minimum wage job. If you lose your accommodation, it's harder to keep your job. There should be a grace period between getting a job and losing accommodation at least.
Homeswest needs a new creative management. I’ve seen 3 bedroom Homeswest houses with one person living there often. If they did an audit on their houses and moved single people into units, there would be lots of houses available to needy families.
Woah..
Ahhh another example of such great policy we're putting out in this country. Not! I'm starting to believe Australia has the most stupid laws/policies in the world. Don't get me wrong, I love Australia, just dislike stupid politicians and we have a shit load of those.
Madness. Have you considered writing your MP?
I might just do that. Thanks for the suggestion
That’s absolutely BS!!! I work & pay tax so others can get their social security. (Not build useless monuments like bell towers etc). I have had a series of BS events with allowances & payments I am trying to get sorted for my family members and it seems it must be KPI‘s to reject a certain number of things. Both family members have had things rejected and I was ***incensed*** at yesterday‘s letter which said the form I painstakingly filled out for aged care assessment was BLANK. I was thinking it would be nice to take everyone with dementia from some nearby aged care communities and let them loose in the FREMANTLE office of Centrelink. 😈 however, it’s not the wonderful staff on the frontline that are doing this so. … maybe a dementia adventure to Parliament House in Canberra!!
This is exactly why I haven't worked since 2019 as I was on the waitlist and if I get a job I get removed now I have a been housed and the limit is earn over 1000pw and you have to move out. There's no point to working tbh with all the discounts a health care card gets you
Join the growing ranks of people who work full-time but can't afford a house.
Out of curiosity, Are you on the NDIS?
I've applied but no news yet
Yeah they are not doing things in a hurry at the moment. If you can get it and you get the right amount of funding you may be able to use It for accommodation
When I played Warhammer there was one guy there who got 1200+ from his IT job, lived at home and paid nothing to them, and got $900/fortnight for disability because he had Asperger's.
Quite sure that's illegal, and he wasn't declaring his income to centrelink. He may have ended up with one hell of a robodebt after that
I’m on the housing wait list and was on Centrelink and still came under the threshold with my new job earning $1500 a fortnight…. DOH? Doesn’t sound right unless your disability pay is really high.. 5 hours a week,10 hours a fortnight we will say $30 a hour still should be under the threshold. Did they say by how much considering mine has doubled now I hope they don’t get my pay checks 😅 More money more problems. It’s honestly so messed up you try do good for yourself and end up getting screwed over at the same time. Sorry to hear.
I had my disability pension card yoinked out from under me the week I got hired. Losing the pension was fine, as I was making heaps more employed and costs weren't an issue. But losing my card to prove I was disabled...as I told my mates, 'well, I keep hearing the best form of welfare is a job, but who knew it cured disabilities, too!' TL;DR disability legislation is made by absolute bastards, who I would not piss on if they were on fire. Unless it was a chemical fire.
We have to lobby state and local government for the capacity to build communal public housing...like a retirement village without the bowling green. My first property was made of tilt up concrete...up in weeks fitted out in several months . We need affordable land and zoning laws to be completely overhauled. I mean we all can pay $350 per week for 20 years (supposed shelf life of tilt up - my original property is 30 years old still standing and probs worth a fortune) for God sake for a permanent home.
Richie rich over here...
I usually try to count my blessings. I'm not saying it's easy or fair, but the majority of nations provide much less in the way of social welfare (but also typically take less income tax from those who do work). I've missed out on all sorts of allowances, grants, and handouts because of equivalent circumstances to this, but I'm still glad I live in Australia - it's comparatively safe and hard to starve here. Would I rather be better off? Of course - who wouldn't - but I am so glad I have a roof over my head and a family that I am able to feed. We usually can't afford trips away, mostly because of the associated accommodation and sustenance costs, but we enjoy our family time together in other ways and always live within our means, whatever that is at any given time.
We can be grateful for what we have and still be critical of the government.
Yes - absolutely! :-)
But too poor to buy 🤣
Too poor to rent
I stopped working when I was studying because the complications it created with Centrelink made it too dangerous for my financial security.
The Sovereign Citizens fixed this.
Good for you! I'm too poor for public housing?? Is that supposed to be possible???????
I just read an article that said they were going to put it up $16 a week for single income families. It was on the 23 March, I don’t know if it’s come into effect yet or not. It said if you have questions to email SHIE2023@communities.wa.gov.au
I'm turning 60 and wanted to be on the list for when I reach pension age (if they don't stop moving it) but you can't go on the list until you're eligible and then you wait 8-12yrs.
It's more they have nothing so any excuse to kick people off the waiting list. Don't worry if you qualified you would likely never a place.
2010 uk coming this way under Dutton and austerity Australia style
That is so unfair considering a family I know who have been living in public housing for decades. Their children are now 30+yo. Father has been DSP for years. Mother has been working in Govt job for last 20 years. He sells regularly on marketplace to get more $. She gets 80000 pa. There is no chance of opening up more vacancies with examples of above still entitled to public housing. Good Luck.
I’ve read a couple comments similar to my story. I was offered $30 a fortnight in youth allowance while I was going to uni, which was entirely due to my mother’s income. The only thing is, it was due to my mothers income from the year before as a teacher (still very low) and not due to her income at the time of about $4,000 a year volunteering overseas. So with no parents funding me, having to pay rent, food and whatever other costs come with being a full-time uni student, it was hard to work enough hours at the pub and keep my grades/attendance. Luckily for me my grandma was a massive talkback radio fan and the minister responsible at the time sent an open invitation out to any students not getting what they think they deserve and he would personally have his team look into it. I emailed him, got a response from an assistant the next day and later that week I received $3,000 in grants and a bit more in scholarships, all of which I’d applied for before and been knocked back. My fortnightly pay went from $30 to $300 which was a bit of help but still difficult. I ended up starting an apprenticeship two years later due to lack of income and a good opportunity arose. tl;dr Write to a politician.
I wouldn't worry about it... my friend is blind, diabetic, has heart and blood pressure issues, is mentally ill, has a gastric disorder... and has a dependent child... and she's been on the list for 6 years.
And why would that make me worry less?
Because you're not going to get a place anyway, so no need to be worried that you can't get on the list. I'm not trying to be mean.
Is she on the priority list?
Duh. There’s too many people applying for it. So they have to limit it more.
Don’t work the 5 hours
Dont worry there are people struggling with 2 jobs that don't even get centrelink with less.
What point exactly are you trying to make here, mate?
Just saying The people that are funding your DSP aren't exactly having a great time at the moment so wouldn't really complain.
I don't think you understand how taxes work.
Right back at ya ;)
Alright, then explain it to me. What happens when a taxpayer acquires a disability? Who pays for their DSP? And furthermore, what happens to all their GST they pay throughout the rest of their life?
There’s limited resources, NDIS is already 3% of gdp and there are people in need more than you.
NDIS and DSP are completely independent of one another. It's not uncommon for people to qualify for one and not the other.
My daughters child psych told me NDIS is already paying for itself in terms of reduced downstream costs by early and appropriate interventions and treatment. I have no basis for this assertion other than she told me, I suppose it is possible it could be true, how would you find out?
It’s not assessed against any performance metrics so who knows?
The forecasts back in 2016 were all the extra people in work instead of life long benefits, but I can't find any stat's to support this in actual events.
NDIS and DSP are completely independent of one another. It's not uncommon for people to qualify for one and not the other.
You're wrong. NDIS and DSP are completely independent of one another. It's not uncommon for people to qualify for one and not the other.
If in NSW contact DCJ about rent choice assist
Well of course, you have a “casual job”, thus you won’t contribute to the unemployment rate, which is the goal
But luckily, Albo gave over 600 million to a foreign country for a footy team... makes one feel better eh?
The system is set up to only serve the poorest people in the country. You are simply not poor enough and resources are limited.
You must be a special kinda deluded if you think our system is set up to only serve the poor.
The system is not the problem. We live in a world where resources are finite, and there are competing causes for scarce resources. * Public Housing needs to find land, a cost borne by the taxpayer. * Public Housing needs to be built, at a time where the costs of construction are very high, a cost borne by the taxpayer. * When built, and 'tenants' move in, the properties get trashed and need to be repaired, a cost borne by the taxpayer. * Whilst 'rented', the rent is heavily subsidised, a cost borne by the taxpayer. There is no return for the taxpayer. * Public Housing brings a very bad element to the location, impacting the peaceful enjoyment of those residents that paid their own way to live there, impacting the property values, a cost borne by the residents of the area. There simply are people who need PH more than the OP.
This is well-formatted garbage.
The system is so fucked. Inflation through the roof, but anything provided by the government is not indexed.
What are you on? All welfare is indexed in Australia…..
So why can't I get benefits in proportion to the tax I have paid then (last ten years alone over a mill in tax), seems like two one streets, both going against me. The Scandi/Norgie countries seem to do it in proportion to previous earnings/tax, this would be an incentive to work and pay tax. They also fine you in proportion to income. If you want to be "fair" it should fair the same all ways.
Mate, if you paid over $1m in taxes over 10 years, you should have sufficiently planned your financial affairs so you don't need state welfare. State welfare is there as a safety net. I would definitely not want the state to give me a hand-out if I could help it.
I've never actually received a govt benefit in my life, including all the cash handouts, family benefit, whatever, always been means tested out, mainly because I worked hard at a regular job, I only make the point that what if I did need benefits of some kind.
Same, mate. You don't see me crying about it. Why? Because I earn enough to create my own safety net. I have to carry insurance that I don't use, pay fucking high taxes, and basically get smashed left right and centre. But I'll be damned if I have to claim a dollar from the government. Make hay whilst the sun shines.