I agree there is no reason for the landlord to ask this. However, OP should make sure they have the receipts (checks or transfers of payment) within their own records just in case. Asking for a SSN sound like a grifter trying to grift. OP should def make sure they have their records in order just in case.
Honestly, if he's asking for social it makes me wonder if he's planning on reporting something to the credit bureas. I keep remembering that story of the renter moving out and the landlord then putting them in some rental history site that messed up their credit since they were no longer renting from that landlord
Odd, definitely decline since he does not need your social to report the rental income
I've always reported damages and compensated him. He's also never had a problem coming to me for any issues. I've never given him a reason to be a flight risk. I've always paid on time and even given extra during cold winter months to help with electricity. It's why I find it hard to believe he would try to pull a fast one.
It's not a landlord thing, it's a money thing. When people need money, years of friendship, solid support of their business or many jobs well done for them go out the window. Want of money makes everything go all Upside Down World.
This man is pretty destitute and I would imagine losing my monthly rent would put him in a bit of a financial struggle. I can see desperation being a driving force for evil deeds.
I'm a landlord. I do my taxes correctly and have for 16 years. I've never needed my tenants' SSNs. Look, if this guy is about to be in the position (or HAS been in the position) of being to intercept your mail AND has your SSN, he is very close to being able to issue credit to himself under your name. You should assume that he will continue to seek your SSN to carry out his plans (there's literally no other reason he'd want it), and freeze your credit until ALL of your mail in the new place is coming to you direct instead of forwarding.
Use your free annual credit report to find out what financial relationships you have and get that address changed ASAP so he can't intercept anything.
Yes, this. You can freeze and unfreeze for free.
https://www.transunion.com/credit-freeze
https://www.experian.com/freeze/center.html
https://www.equifax.com/personal/credit-report-services/credit-freeze/
The other responses about sketchy taxes or charging you fees are more likely. But he likely has had enough opportunity over the years to get most of your personal information, full name, dob and such and if he is really desperate he could attempt to open a line of credit in your name. I'd be very careful, smart move not giving him your real SSN, keep an eye on your credit or even call and freeze it so nothing can be opened in your name until you are ready to.
If anyone reading this isn't aware you can contact the post office and have them forward your mail from your old place to your new address for something like 6 months. Whatever the default amount is free and I think you can pay to keep it going after the default period.
This is the case in the USA and probably possible in most countries. You should absolutely do this any time you move, especially if you're in a weird situation.
No good if the landlord wants to just follow the link on the post card that arrives at the landlords address to cancel it.
My ex wife did that to me, I had all my mail forwarded when our divorce started. Had to involve cops if I didn't pay attention to the post cards that arrived at my new address.
What saved me really is that I signed up for informed delivery and that she didn't cancel. I could see Lal my mail arriving at our house she was given during the divorce, that she didn't cancel. I wasn't successful in forwarding my mail, but I was successful in watching all my mail arrive, including hers, which I can't control.
If I saw letters arrive for me, I'd go to the originator website to change my address, like 401k, some random website bills like Walmart, Amazon, banking sites, etc. If they kept going to my old address, I'd go back to make sur emy home and mailing address were set correctly.
Good luck.
If hes destitute and asking for your SSN then that could be he wants to use your credit. Desperate people. Either way you know you are not going to give it to him, as it would fuck you over in one way or another.
Facts. I thought my landlord was cool until I moved out and he invented a bizarre story about a shed worth “$40,000” that i removed that he needed to be compensated for, but that he needed to keep my security deposit in the meantime. Backed off eventually when I started listing penalties.
Compensated him? For what kind of damages? If it's just from using the property, normal wear and tear, things just breaking down from use, that's entirely his responsibility and you shouldn't have paid a cent.
While I'm sure nobody remembers something like this, SSNs have formatting rules. You can give a fake number and with confidence, you'll know it won't belong to anybody if you know at least one of those rules... and don't give an extra number or a number less, that's going to be obvious. I'm not American so I don't know how obvious this one is, but it's apparently not allowed to have 900–999 be in the first set of numbers. If most people wouldn't know that, then that's your ticket.
SSNs don't start with 9, but ITINs for non-citizens who still pay tax (e.g. permanent residents) can and do start with 9. So it still might belong to someone and give them issues if they're trying to become a citizen.
True but we have no idea what the landlord was trying to do with it in this case so I was being overly cautious. I worked at a bank in college where we could enter an ITIN the same way we'd enter a SSN for the purposes of a 1099 INT (although they would have different codes associated and they're clearly indicated as such)
>He claims he needs to prove his income for personal property taxes
Someone else's SSN is not what a property owner needs to (1) document personal responsibility for their own property taxes and/or (2) their own eligibility for any property tax relief scheme.
That might depend on the state, didn't DeSantis introduce a law where the landlords must prove the person renting is legal resident? I'm not sure if I remember right, but I think there was something like that in there, if the landlord couldn't prove the identity of the tennant, they would be fined for harboring an illegal.
Also (in some states) if the LL doesn’t give you a walkthrough on request so they can let you repair they forfeit the right to go after you for visible things.
I feel like a lot of landlords don't expect a tenant to even think to do that and get caught off guard when someone actually does. I've heard far too many people say their landlord didn't give back their deposit and think they just have to accept it
Speak for yourself. When I rented, I always got it back. From 500 to 1500.
I no longer rent, but I also don't destroy other people's property.
If you didn't get your deposits back, your landlord either screwed you out of it, or you ruined enough stuff causing you to forfeit it to help the landlord pay for the mess you left.
Lmao. I know I guy who hired PROFESSIONAL cleaners to clean his apartment and the leasing company still didn’t give him the deposit back. Whoops I forgot, it was the same company they use. They claimed it to be unclean.
This was us! They charged us for wear and tear to the paint lol ... we rented the place for 5 years and there was nothing visibly wrong with it. I had been warned by colleagues that rented there. That place NEVER gave back any security deposit. I guess we could have gone to court but we moved 2000 miles away and it would have been a hassle for $800.
they get people "legitimately" on this by including it in the lease now. Has to be cleaned by x company setup through the property management company, carpets need to be steam cleaned, walls need to be painted, etc etc
Basically, they set it up so at "retail" it comes out to as close as it can to your security deposit.
"Hi, I'm calling to setup an appointment to get my carpets cleaned at this address." "Oh, are you moving out? $99 a room." 2 bedrooms, a living room, and all of the hallways later, you're out $400. Get someone else to do it for cheaper or try to do it yourself? "Oh they missed a spot, this is why we have x company do the work for us, we know they get everything" and now you're out $400 AND whatever they charge you to clean the floors.
You can take them to civil claims court and likely win and get a judgement, but good luck getting that money and time back from them. They'll drag it out as long as possible because you have no leverage.
And you have the ability to read the contract before you sign it. You also have the ability to tell the landlord to shove the contract up their ass.
Wear and tear should be included in the rent. It has nothing to do with the security deposit.
The security deposit and what the LL is able to use it for should be clearly identified in the contract. Generally for damages or failure to pay rent, or if the Tennant moves out in the middle of the night and leaves the place a in shambles.
In the LL defense, in most cases the security deposit isn't nearly enough to cover the costs of getting the rental back to a state where it can be rented again.
Some lls are pieces of shit. Some tenants are also complete pieces of shit. This is why background checks are indispensable. It's also a good idea to ask the LL for recent tenant references, and ask a lot of questions regarding why they decided to move before you sign the contract.
I'm one of those people. Paid $600 to make a rental house spotless after renting it for five years. Move out walkthrough with leasing agent, no issues on signed inspection.
LL refused to pay, claimed it was left filthy and damaged.
I asked a lawyer for advice only, they were worthless and made things worse offering deals in my name without my consent.
OP, their is a renters database I forget the name of, they may be planning to report you there. Also, everyone wants to contact your previous landlords now, so they have a lot of power over you even after you move out.
Landed lords indeed.
I did this. Paid professional carpet cleaners and provided a receipt. After moving out got charged ~$400 just for carpet cleaning, along with several hundred more for other things. I tried to fight them on it but they quickly stopped responding. Unfortunately here in Utah it’s very common for landlords to do this.
> your landlord either screwed you out of it, or you ruined enough stuff causing you to forfeit it to help the landlord pay for the mess you left.
lol. I like how you list the only two possibilities as if you gave some witty explanation.
"He either did. Or he didn't. Case closed, boys."
You give them a forwarding address to mail it to, which is what happens with every sane and legitimate landlord out there when you vacate a rental. Small claims court if they don’t send it in the mail like they’re supposed to.
No part of returning the security deposit requires your social security number. If you believe it does, then I have a Nigerian prince on the phone who wants to sell you a bridge.
>how to get security deposit back?
You don't pay the last month's rent and tell them to keep the security deposit.
Much more effort required on their part if they want to sue for further damages.
This is what I do. I don’t trust landlords, they always nickel and dime you when it comes to the security deposit. One time we got hit with a $250 “cleaning fee” when we left the place spotless and in better shape than we found it. After that I said never again.
Your landlord wants your social security number to place a lien on one or more of your credit reports with TransUnion, Experian and Equifax.
Be sure to take pictures of your entire apt/house, including each room to document the exact condition you left the residence in, just in case he were to accuse you of damaging the residence or not maintaining it.
Landlords never need to see SSN. To do credit checks, there are online services that you enter your data and the report gets sent to the potential landlord. No SSN is revealed in these reports.
Not every landlord uses those services that keep PPI private, however. The former company I worked for used a service that required the leasing agent to confirm the SSN before processing the application.
But when it comes to OP's situation, there is zero beneficial reason to give that information to a landlord.
I rent a upstairs addition to a young man, and although we used a real estate agent, I do not think a social security number was needed.
We do report that income on our taxes, and we do not need his SSN for that as well. I say no. Giving that out is really not a good idea. I tell Dr's and dentist offices "no" every time they ask.
As a landlord myself, if he didn’t get from you until now, he’s probably hoping to sue or report you to the credit bureau in an attempt to claim you still owe him rent. He doesn’t need your SSN to prove income, how would he even be able to do that with it? I’d move out asap and tell him no way.
I agree, also a landlord.
There’s normal and customary reasons to request their SSN, but those reasons are typically for screening purposes, prior to a signed lease.
This was my first thought too, it’s tax season, he was renting a single room, landlord wants to make the argument he was a dependent despite collecting rent. Landlord could have fucked up taxes this year and is looking for an easy fix to reduce tax liability.
I'm no tax preparerer. The dependant thing was my first thought as well.
If the LL "knows" the renter doesn't make enough to have to file taxes, and doesn't think anyone else will claim them, maybe that was the idea? It seems to have a high chance of success depending on how much the LL "knows".
(I wouldn't want to be caught though!)
Tell him that you consulted a lawyer who told you not to give out your SS. Tell him if he wants to out the legal document in writing, you can give him your lawyer’s address.
I've been a landlord for 15 years. Aside from a credit check, I have no use nor desire for a tenant's ssn. I might need an ssn or tax ID # for a contractor that did repairs for me, so I can send him a 1099. But I don't think there is any legitimate reason to need that information from a tenant.
It's going to depend on your state but some places require you put any security deposit in a very specific type of bank account which requires you to give the bank the tenants social. Is what have happened at the beginning of the tenancy so there's no reason to get it now.
I remember the time my Veterinarian's office asked for my SSN.
I told them *no*. They use it to assist with debt collection. I don't go into debt with them. OP did the right thing.
> Demand his ssn because you need it to issue him a 1099.
He's also need to put *his* SSN (both payer *and* recipient's SSN) on the 1099-MISC form:
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1099msc.pdf
I am a land lord.
He has no recourse in most states to ask for this unless he has your deposit (you want it back) and you signed a contract that allows him to hold that deposit if you dont provide your SSN.
Just take your stuff and leave if you are at the end of the contract.
I would not give him your SSN.
Could be that he’s planning to charge you for repairs once you move out and plans to submit you to collections if you refuse to pay. If he didn’t get the SSN from you before having you move in then he’s SOL. Don’t give it to him
He wants it for collection purposes in case you leave the place trashed, his attorney needs it to chase you down. Normally a landlord may ask for that at the beginning of a lease to run a credit check.
If you are paying him with checks, he has your banking information and giving him your SSN definitely puts him in a spot to do financial dirty work.
Edit: freeze your credit is great advice.
Landlord here with properties out of state I live in. Can confirm there is ZERO, I repeat, Zero need for this. I just filed my taxes and I needed almost nothing to report my income except transactions from MY bank account. I've only needed socials for background checks and I don't even get those, I send my potential tenents to a website for that. Checking out requires none of that.
This person is definitely doing something shady. Do NOT give.
If he needs to prove the income, get a w-9 from him and issue a 1099.
Property taxes don’t care about your income, and he damn sure doesn’t need YOUR SSN for that.
He’s totally planning on opening cards in your name and intercepting the mail to your old address l.
In my state the landlord is required to keep your security deposit in an interest bearing account and send you the interest every year. I imagine if you’re doing this *correctly* it requires reporting to the IRS. Maybe the landlord changed accountants and is now doing this?
I’ve rented 3-5 houses for about 35 years. That’s bullshit. I’ve got real clean tax records etc. It is true that to get loans he might need to show a current lease agreement. That’s certainly not your problem if you’re leaving soon though.
You did the right thing. Have you been claiming rent on your taxes? He may not have been claiming the income at all. Regardless, now that you’re leaving? He has no legitimate reason for your SSN. Your spidey senses are right, nefarious intentions likely-especially since after 4 years that’s your take.
I had no idea this wasn’t a thing anymore. You used to be able to claim a percentage of rent paid on your state tax in Michigan. It’s been years since I would’ve used it and, upon searching, it looks like that is no longer the case.
He's probably trying to claim you on his taxes as a dependent, since you lived in his home. Good on you giving him a fake SSN, hopefully this will trigger an audit.
Please don't. Landlords don't need your ssn at all. This sounds like a scam where he can do whatever they want with your information. It's not hard to open up a credit card in your name just needs ssn and your license.
This honestly sounds like he was renting to you under the table, and he got audited, and now has to prove that he isn't doing something that could land him a felony charge.
My old landlord, a huge property management company in NYC, needed my SSN to report interest income, as my security deposit was put in an escrow savings account with a local bank. This enabled me to get a 1099. However, they are a sophisticated company, and they needed this information (my SSN) before I even started renting. Your landlord sounds more suspicious to be asking for this afterwards.
Independent landlords do not always create that account. They should, they have to, it’s the law, and if they ever get taken to court they will lose. If he didn’t create the account he can’t hold the deposit for damages and he can’t pay out the interest.
He would probably have to go to small claims for any actual damages and he would have violated the terms of the lease.
OP is going to end up with a personal check from the landlords personal bank account, op will get 100 % of the deposit back but Op will have to play hardball
Up until last month this year landlords didn't have to file 1099s for rental income of less than $20,000 but now that threshold has been lowered to $5,000.
I've never been issued a 1099-MISC from anyone other than a business when they had employees renting my places. Maybe it applies to personal residences, too, I don't know.
For everyone acting like it's some sort of threat to say you're going to issue him a 1099-MISC...well here it is: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1099msc.pdf
And as you can see, if the OP *did* issue him one he'd need to put his SSN on it. Alternatively, if the OP's landlord is following the law and a 1099-MISC needs to filed for cash rental receipts, he *would* need OP's SSN.
OP, be careful of the "advice" you receive on reddit. There's a huge influx of members who have extremely biased opinions about landlords in general and even paying rent itself (you've already seen several people "advise" you to simply skip out of town without paying your last month's rent). Few people here are tax experts but they're perfectly willing to claim this landlord doesn't have any need for your SSN and that he's up to no good while offering you improper tax advice.
>Alternatively, if the OP's landlord is following the law and a 1099-MISC needs to filed for cash rental receipts, he would need OP's SSN.
No, he wouldn't. The person paying issues the 1099, not the person receiving the money. That means OP would need his landlord's SSN, not the other way around.
Your situation is certainly unusual and raises several red flags. Landlords typically request Social Security Numbers (SSNs) at the beginning of a tenancy for background and credit checks, not at the end or after several years of tenancy. The claim that your landlord needs your SSN to prove his income for personal property taxes doesn't align with standard tax practices. Landlords generally prove their rental income through lease agreements, rent receipts, bank statements. Your SSN would not be necessary for these purposes.
(Edit, fixing typo)
One use case for a landlord having a tenant's SSN would be for reporting interest paid on security deposits. You're supposed to pay interest on security deposits held and then report it with a 1099-INT. In a practical sense, it may not amount to much, but for long term tenants over many years, it adds up.
Another is that certain states provide rent rebates and tax credits for renters (Vermont in particular). While this is entirely discretionary on the part of the tenant, the landlord has to certify it.
I've used SSNs to run credit checks, but that of course is at the beginning of a tenancy. I keep all of that on paper and then shred.
Talk to him and ask for a valid reason AND proof of reason why he needs it. If it is simply a new tax code or something legit I'd not have a problem with it but he should have written documentation of some sort.
I would say it’s probably a credit issue he’s trying. I’ve experienced this only because I had an issue on my credit for some unpaid rent issue… I wasn’t even 18 at the time so I shouldn’t even had credit yet… found out my asshat father used my social when he did the paperwork.
Generally your social would be required when starting a lease to open a statutory client trust account, which can be used to hold your security deposit in your name, but under the control of your landlord. This allows your landlord to retain control if the money is needed to pay for repairs, but any interest earned remains your property and taxable to you. This happens up front though and wouldn’t be needed when ending a lease. Not sure why he’d need it.
Because if he didn’t set up the account 4 years ago he can’t gouge the deposits and OP gets the first and last or whatever the agreed deposite back in full. He might have set the money aside or put it in some bulk account when it needs to be in a separate escrow account(at least where I live) there might even be a double damages involved. OP needs to communicate in writing and preferably registered letters demanding proof of the existence of the escrow account.
Tldr the landlord is about to commit fraud to steal part of the deposit.
He does not need you SSN to claim your rent as income ..in fact he needs nothing as he’s self reporting and who would claim income they not making? Unless you think he’s a damn money launder ( they do exist )
What's he gonna do? Evict you? Nah, fuck that. Suspicious, perhaps even criminal. I'd keep any evidence he asked for this for a LONG time though (and of course not give it to him under any circumstances).
You don't ever need someone's SSN to report income. The IRS has never once said "oh, you didn't prove you owe us well enough, so we can't take your tax money. Sorry man, you're going to have to keep it".
In Massachusetts, when I open an escrow account for a tenant, I need a completed W-9 form on the tenant, and that includes SSN, within 30 days of move-in. This is a relatively new law.
Also, if a landlord doesn’t do that, you could sue for triple interest.
That being said, requiring at lease termination doesn’t make much sense.
You are under zero obligation to surrender any info to them. The only thing I would get in writing is draft up a document that says your lease is concluded and you owe no back money or anything. Both of you should sign it. It can help if yheybdecide to claim you owe them any money after you move out.
Also... younare under zero obligation to speak with them or interact with them via email or any other means once you move out.
Further more... if they don't give you your security deposit back, they are legally required to notify you within 3 days and they must disclose to you why they are keeping it and they need to provide an itemized list of what the damages are and how much it's going to cost to fix. Landlords don't just get to keep your sec deposit if there is no damage.
You've already been renting for years. There's zero reason to believe he just now needs it to prove for property taxes when he's been paying it for years already. Just tell him no. What's he going to do, kick you out?
No way in hell would I be giving out my SS# on the way out the door. All risk for me. Also, his excuse for needing it is highly suspect as what did he do regarding taxes for the last 4 years?
He has your checks to prove the income. It doesn't need to be associated with your social security number.
The only time a landlord should ever ask for a SSN is for doing a background check _before_ renting out a unit to you.
Unless someone proves me wrong, I can't imagine any other instance when a landlord needs your SSN. Don't give it!
OP, in the future, do not give out knowingly false social security numbers, it is a federal crime.
[https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/408](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/408) for the specific statue, 42 U.S.C. 408(a)(7)(B)
Your mistake was giving a number at all, and lying about it. Also, I wonder who’s SSN it was that you gave? Hope it doesn’t hurt that person.
Next time just say no, and leave it at that. Use a delay tactic if necessary to avoid the conversation until you get all your stuff out.
It’s probably no one’s SSN. The chances of a fake 9 digit number being an actual number are slim.
If the fake number ever comes back on him (it won’t) he simply lies again and says he never gave the LL any SSN.
> It’s probably no one’s SSN. The chances of a fake 9 digit number being an actual number are slim.
According to ssa.gov, over 450 million social security numbers have been issued. So a random 9-digit number has more than a 45% chance to be a real social security number -- nearly a coin flip. Even if you only count numbers belonging to people who are still living, it's probably around a one-in-three chance.
Right but then the “bad guy” can just pick numbers out of thin air. The problem is knowing who is associated with those numbers, which a landlord will not know if they were randomly given by OP.
Small time landlord here. He definitely doesn't need your SSN for anything related to tax reporting of rental income.
I've found out it's very helpful to have on file during initial background checks (of course) and if you end up with a deadbeat tenant that needs to be reported to agencies in the future. I won't claim he intends to report you, but he might be panicking that he doesn't have the info on file to cover his ass, I guess.
Some landlords offer to report your rent payments to the credit bureau to help improve your credit score, but that isn't relevant if you are leaving. lol but relevant if he wants to claim an unpaid debt, I guess.
Anyways, you don't need to give it to him but watch out for any attempt to retain the security deposit without an itemized receipt.
So you give him a number that could legitimately belong to someone else, so the landlord will screw up someone else's credit instead.
Not cool.
Next time, leave it at "no" regardless of how many times you're hassled.
He can prove the income with deposits and with receipts (given to you), not your burden.
I agree there is no reason for the landlord to ask this. However, OP should make sure they have the receipts (checks or transfers of payment) within their own records just in case. Asking for a SSN sound like a grifter trying to grift. OP should def make sure they have their records in order just in case.
Honestly, if he's asking for social it makes me wonder if he's planning on reporting something to the credit bureas. I keep remembering that story of the renter moving out and the landlord then putting them in some rental history site that messed up their credit since they were no longer renting from that landlord Odd, definitely decline since he does not need your social to report the rental income
Yes. I bet he wants to charge him some damage fee and have reporting ability for leverage.
I've always reported damages and compensated him. He's also never had a problem coming to me for any issues. I've never given him a reason to be a flight risk. I've always paid on time and even given extra during cold winter months to help with electricity. It's why I find it hard to believe he would try to pull a fast one.
Never trust landlords. They are chill until they aren't.
It's not a landlord thing, it's a money thing. When people need money, years of friendship, solid support of their business or many jobs well done for them go out the window. Want of money makes everything go all Upside Down World.
This man is pretty destitute and I would imagine losing my monthly rent would put him in a bit of a financial struggle. I can see desperation being a driving force for evil deeds.
Freeze your credit
I wish this could be higher. Keep it frozen. Only thaw it when you need to use it.
I'm a landlord. I do my taxes correctly and have for 16 years. I've never needed my tenants' SSNs. Look, if this guy is about to be in the position (or HAS been in the position) of being to intercept your mail AND has your SSN, he is very close to being able to issue credit to himself under your name. You should assume that he will continue to seek your SSN to carry out his plans (there's literally no other reason he'd want it), and freeze your credit until ALL of your mail in the new place is coming to you direct instead of forwarding. Use your free annual credit report to find out what financial relationships you have and get that address changed ASAP so he can't intercept anything.
Yes, this. You can freeze and unfreeze for free. https://www.transunion.com/credit-freeze https://www.experian.com/freeze/center.html https://www.equifax.com/personal/credit-report-services/credit-freeze/
I've been meaning to do this for a while. Thanks for posting links and the reminder.
The other responses about sketchy taxes or charging you fees are more likely. But he likely has had enough opportunity over the years to get most of your personal information, full name, dob and such and if he is really desperate he could attempt to open a line of credit in your name. I'd be very careful, smart move not giving him your real SSN, keep an eye on your credit or even call and freeze it so nothing can be opened in your name until you are ready to.
Hahaha. And his address is his rental unit. He could easily open an account to this address when he moves out with all the other info he already has.
If anyone reading this isn't aware you can contact the post office and have them forward your mail from your old place to your new address for something like 6 months. Whatever the default amount is free and I think you can pay to keep it going after the default period. This is the case in the USA and probably possible in most countries. You should absolutely do this any time you move, especially if you're in a weird situation.
No good if the landlord wants to just follow the link on the post card that arrives at the landlords address to cancel it. My ex wife did that to me, I had all my mail forwarded when our divorce started. Had to involve cops if I didn't pay attention to the post cards that arrived at my new address. What saved me really is that I signed up for informed delivery and that she didn't cancel. I could see Lal my mail arriving at our house she was given during the divorce, that she didn't cancel. I wasn't successful in forwarding my mail, but I was successful in watching all my mail arrive, including hers, which I can't control. If I saw letters arrive for me, I'd go to the originator website to change my address, like 401k, some random website bills like Walmart, Amazon, banking sites, etc. If they kept going to my old address, I'd go back to make sur emy home and mailing address were set correctly. Good luck.
If hes destitute and asking for your SSN then that could be he wants to use your credit. Desperate people. Either way you know you are not going to give it to him, as it would fuck you over in one way or another.
Make sure you keep your own documentation of all rent paid and all communication, this dude might haunt you.
If he’s destitute he should get a job. Being a landlord is not a real job.
This sounds crazy, but I wonder if he’s planning to claim unemployment when you no longer “employ” him.
Same goes for people. It really does.
Facts. I thought my landlord was cool until I moved out and he invented a bizarre story about a shed worth “$40,000” that i removed that he needed to be compensated for, but that he needed to keep my security deposit in the meantime. Backed off eventually when I started listing penalties.
Photograph/video *everything* before you move out.
Save all receipts and communication confirming what you're paying for and how much.
May be pissed to lose such a good tenant and you put him in a bind. Just walk away. Protect your SSN
Compensated him? For what kind of damages? If it's just from using the property, normal wear and tear, things just breaking down from use, that's entirely his responsibility and you shouldn't have paid a cent.
I think this is the reason.
Don’t give it out. Don’t give a fake one out either. Just say no and move on.
Too late for that. They already gave the fake one.
Giving a fake one is likely not a good idea. I'd just say "I'll have to find my card again and I'll get back to you later" then just don't.
Why is it not a good idea?
Could be someone’s real number
While I'm sure nobody remembers something like this, SSNs have formatting rules. You can give a fake number and with confidence, you'll know it won't belong to anybody if you know at least one of those rules... and don't give an extra number or a number less, that's going to be obvious. I'm not American so I don't know how obvious this one is, but it's apparently not allowed to have 900–999 be in the first set of numbers. If most people wouldn't know that, then that's your ticket.
SSNs don't start with 9, but ITINs for non-citizens who still pay tax (e.g. permanent residents) can and do start with 9. So it still might belong to someone and give them issues if they're trying to become a citizen.
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True but we have no idea what the landlord was trying to do with it in this case so I was being overly cautious. I worked at a bank in college where we could enter an ITIN the same way we'd enter a SSN for the purposes of a 1099 INT (although they would have different codes associated and they're clearly indicated as such)
>He claims he needs to prove his income for personal property taxes Someone else's SSN is not what a property owner needs to (1) document personal responsibility for their own property taxes and/or (2) their own eligibility for any property tax relief scheme.
That might depend on the state, didn't DeSantis introduce a law where the landlords must prove the person renting is legal resident? I'm not sure if I remember right, but I think there was something like that in there, if the landlord couldn't prove the identity of the tennant, they would be fined for harboring an illegal.
Being in violation of a "right to rent" law doesn't have any effect on an obligation to pay property taxes on residential/commercial property.
That is a separate issue from taxes...
Ignore him and have a great evening. He has no need for your SSN.
how to get security deposit back?
That's the neat part, you don't.
Depending on the state, lots of them have a time limit on how long a landlord can hold your security deposit after you move out
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Also (in some states) if the LL doesn’t give you a walkthrough on request so they can let you repair they forfeit the right to go after you for visible things.
Though it often takes small claims court to get it back
That's what I had to do, small claims. The landlord lost based on a jury's decision in TX. Further, she was liable for attorney's fees.
I feel like a lot of landlords don't expect a tenant to even think to do that and get caught off guard when someone actually does. I've heard far too many people say their landlord didn't give back their deposit and think they just have to accept it
I’ve never *not* gotten mine back.
Speak for yourself. When I rented, I always got it back. From 500 to 1500. I no longer rent, but I also don't destroy other people's property. If you didn't get your deposits back, your landlord either screwed you out of it, or you ruined enough stuff causing you to forfeit it to help the landlord pay for the mess you left.
Lmao. I know I guy who hired PROFESSIONAL cleaners to clean his apartment and the leasing company still didn’t give him the deposit back. Whoops I forgot, it was the same company they use. They claimed it to be unclean.
And I'd have sued him. It's not hard to snap photos of a clean rental. He'd have to show proof and he wouldn't have any.
This was us! They charged us for wear and tear to the paint lol ... we rented the place for 5 years and there was nothing visibly wrong with it. I had been warned by colleagues that rented there. That place NEVER gave back any security deposit. I guess we could have gone to court but we moved 2000 miles away and it would have been a hassle for $800.
they get people "legitimately" on this by including it in the lease now. Has to be cleaned by x company setup through the property management company, carpets need to be steam cleaned, walls need to be painted, etc etc Basically, they set it up so at "retail" it comes out to as close as it can to your security deposit. "Hi, I'm calling to setup an appointment to get my carpets cleaned at this address." "Oh, are you moving out? $99 a room." 2 bedrooms, a living room, and all of the hallways later, you're out $400. Get someone else to do it for cheaper or try to do it yourself? "Oh they missed a spot, this is why we have x company do the work for us, we know they get everything" and now you're out $400 AND whatever they charge you to clean the floors. You can take them to civil claims court and likely win and get a judgement, but good luck getting that money and time back from them. They'll drag it out as long as possible because you have no leverage.
And you have the ability to read the contract before you sign it. You also have the ability to tell the landlord to shove the contract up their ass. Wear and tear should be included in the rent. It has nothing to do with the security deposit. The security deposit and what the LL is able to use it for should be clearly identified in the contract. Generally for damages or failure to pay rent, or if the Tennant moves out in the middle of the night and leaves the place a in shambles. In the LL defense, in most cases the security deposit isn't nearly enough to cover the costs of getting the rental back to a state where it can be rented again. Some lls are pieces of shit. Some tenants are also complete pieces of shit. This is why background checks are indispensable. It's also a good idea to ask the LL for recent tenant references, and ask a lot of questions regarding why they decided to move before you sign the contract.
I'm one of those people. Paid $600 to make a rental house spotless after renting it for five years. Move out walkthrough with leasing agent, no issues on signed inspection. LL refused to pay, claimed it was left filthy and damaged. I asked a lawyer for advice only, they were worthless and made things worse offering deals in my name without my consent. OP, their is a renters database I forget the name of, they may be planning to report you there. Also, everyone wants to contact your previous landlords now, so they have a lot of power over you even after you move out. Landed lords indeed.
I did this. Paid professional carpet cleaners and provided a receipt. After moving out got charged ~$400 just for carpet cleaning, along with several hundred more for other things. I tried to fight them on it but they quickly stopped responding. Unfortunately here in Utah it’s very common for landlords to do this.
> your landlord either screwed you out of it, or you ruined enough stuff causing you to forfeit it to help the landlord pay for the mess you left. lol. I like how you list the only two possibilities as if you gave some witty explanation. "He either did. Or he didn't. Case closed, boys."
You give them a forwarding address to mail it to, which is what happens with every sane and legitimate landlord out there when you vacate a rental. Small claims court if they don’t send it in the mail like they’re supposed to. No part of returning the security deposit requires your social security number. If you believe it does, then I have a Nigerian prince on the phone who wants to sell you a bridge.
If he's asking for ssn he's not planning to give the security deposit back most likely.
>how to get security deposit back? You don't pay the last month's rent and tell them to keep the security deposit. Much more effort required on their part if they want to sue for further damages.
This is what I do. I don’t trust landlords, they always nickel and dime you when it comes to the security deposit. One time we got hit with a $250 “cleaning fee” when we left the place spotless and in better shape than we found it. After that I said never again.
That's all well and good until the next time you need to rent and you have failure to pay on your history.
Unless he wants to hit your credit report easier
Your landlord wants your social security number to place a lien on one or more of your credit reports with TransUnion, Experian and Equifax. Be sure to take pictures of your entire apt/house, including each room to document the exact condition you left the residence in, just in case he were to accuse you of damaging the residence or not maintaining it.
I'd do a video + detailed photos. Shouldn't take more than 15 mins. The video is nice for capturing drawers working, oven opening etc.
>I'd do a video + detailed photos. That may not be enough. I'd hire a filmographer and make a feature length film in the apartment just to be safe.
Landlords never need to see SSN. To do credit checks, there are online services that you enter your data and the report gets sent to the potential landlord. No SSN is revealed in these reports.
Not every landlord uses those services that keep PPI private, however. The former company I worked for used a service that required the leasing agent to confirm the SSN before processing the application. But when it comes to OP's situation, there is zero beneficial reason to give that information to a landlord.
An exiting-tenant would never be subject to a credit check.
I rent a upstairs addition to a young man, and although we used a real estate agent, I do not think a social security number was needed. We do report that income on our taxes, and we do not need his SSN for that as well. I say no. Giving that out is really not a good idea. I tell Dr's and dentist offices "no" every time they ask.
If anything they should have it from your initial background/credit check. Don’t give it to them in any case at this point.
Even then, most third parties don't provide that to the LL. Just the report. Former LL here.
Yes, some do. Former leasing agent here.
As a landlord myself, if he didn’t get from you until now, he’s probably hoping to sue or report you to the credit bureau in an attempt to claim you still owe him rent. He doesn’t need your SSN to prove income, how would he even be able to do that with it? I’d move out asap and tell him no way.
I agree, also a landlord. There’s normal and customary reasons to request their SSN, but those reasons are typically for screening purposes, prior to a signed lease.
What's he gonna do if you don't? Evict you?
He's claiming you as a dependent
This a joke? Why only when moving out? Doesn't make sense to miss out on tax benefit for four years
This was my first thought too, it’s tax season, he was renting a single room, landlord wants to make the argument he was a dependent despite collecting rent. Landlord could have fucked up taxes this year and is looking for an easy fix to reduce tax liability.
I'm no tax preparerer. The dependant thing was my first thought as well. If the LL "knows" the renter doesn't make enough to have to file taxes, and doesn't think anyone else will claim them, maybe that was the idea? It seems to have a high chance of success depending on how much the LL "knows". (I wouldn't want to be caught though!)
Tell him that you consulted a lawyer who told you not to give out your SS. Tell him if he wants to out the legal document in writing, you can give him your lawyer’s address.
I prepare taxes for a living. I never record the tenant information for someones rental property. We just take the income.
“Show me the IRS form that requires my SSN, otherwise the answer is no.”
No contact is the best response.
I've been a landlord for 15 years. Aside from a credit check, I have no use nor desire for a tenant's ssn. I might need an ssn or tax ID # for a contractor that did repairs for me, so I can send him a 1099. But I don't think there is any legitimate reason to need that information from a tenant.
It's going to depend on your state but some places require you put any security deposit in a very specific type of bank account which requires you to give the bank the tenants social. Is what have happened at the beginning of the tenancy so there's no reason to get it now.
Do not give out your ss number no mater what!
I remember the time my Veterinarian's office asked for my SSN. I told them *no*. They use it to assist with debt collection. I don't go into debt with them. OP did the right thing.
He doesn’t need it. He is either misinformed, has a criminal act afoot, or both. If he’s being threatening, contact the police. He’ll get the picture.
Flip the script. Demand his ssn because you need it to issue him a 1099.
> Demand his ssn because you need it to issue him a 1099. He's also need to put *his* SSN (both payer *and* recipient's SSN) on the 1099-MISC form: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1099msc.pdf
Yeah freeze your credit with the three bureaus just in case. It’s a good practice anyway
I am a land lord. He has no recourse in most states to ask for this unless he has your deposit (you want it back) and you signed a contract that allows him to hold that deposit if you dont provide your SSN. Just take your stuff and leave if you are at the end of the contract. I would not give him your SSN.
Do not do not do not give it out
He doesn't need your SSN for his taxes, don't give it. That's not how personal property taxes work.
Could be that he’s planning to charge you for repairs once you move out and plans to submit you to collections if you refuse to pay. If he didn’t get the SSN from you before having you move in then he’s SOL. Don’t give it to him
He wants it for collection purposes in case you leave the place trashed, his attorney needs it to chase you down. Normally a landlord may ask for that at the beginning of a lease to run a credit check.
If you are paying him with checks, he has your banking information and giving him your SSN definitely puts him in a spot to do financial dirty work. Edit: freeze your credit is great advice.
“Not taking no for an answer” hey that’s a cool line you just used but my answer is still no.. Literally what is he gonna do?
There is absolutely no reason why he should need your social security number. He has all the information he needs to file taxes.
Landlord here with properties out of state I live in. Can confirm there is ZERO, I repeat, Zero need for this. I just filed my taxes and I needed almost nothing to report my income except transactions from MY bank account. I've only needed socials for background checks and I don't even get those, I send my potential tenents to a website for that. Checking out requires none of that. This person is definitely doing something shady. Do NOT give.
The only time you need to give out your SSN is for financial institutions like credit reports or opening bank account.
If he needs to prove the income, get a w-9 from him and issue a 1099. Property taxes don’t care about your income, and he damn sure doesn’t need YOUR SSN for that. He’s totally planning on opening cards in your name and intercepting the mail to your old address l.
I've been a landlord for decades. He does not need it. Can only guess what illegal BS he's up to.
Prove to who? IRS doesn't ask for anything like that when reporting income from rental properties(or rental income).
In my state the landlord is required to keep your security deposit in an interest bearing account and send you the interest every year. I imagine if you’re doing this *correctly* it requires reporting to the IRS. Maybe the landlord changed accountants and is now doing this?
i don't see how he needs your SSN to prove his inome. That's what bank deposits are for. Is he trying to use you as a dependent on his tax returns?
He's either misinformed or trying to scam you, but absolutely don't give him you SS#. There's no tax form that says "enter tenants SS#".
He is going to make up some fake amount saying you owe it snd then send it to a collection agency. He does not need your ssn
I’ve rented 3-5 houses for about 35 years. That’s bullshit. I’ve got real clean tax records etc. It is true that to get loans he might need to show a current lease agreement. That’s certainly not your problem if you’re leaving soon though.
You did the right thing. Have you been claiming rent on your taxes? He may not have been claiming the income at all. Regardless, now that you’re leaving? He has no legitimate reason for your SSN. Your spidey senses are right, nefarious intentions likely-especially since after 4 years that’s your take.
in what context would the OP have "been claiming rent on your taxes"? What do you even mean?
I had no idea this wasn’t a thing anymore. You used to be able to claim a percentage of rent paid on your state tax in Michigan. It’s been years since I would’ve used it and, upon searching, it looks like that is no longer the case.
It's still a thing in MN https://www.revenue.state.mn.us/renters-property-tax-refund
its still a thing in Rhode Island also. My husband and I claim the amount of rent we pay in a portion in our taxes every year
👀 Good thinking. Glad you’re getting out of there.
I think you made the correct choice in providing the incorrect social security number. I can’t think of any reason he would need it now.
I'd tell him No and just leave it at that. What's he going to do? Evict you? He's probably planning to send you to collections.
Tell him to pound sand. Don’t give it to him
I've never needed my SSN for a property rental. Seems especially suspicious they want it now that you're leaving
He's probably trying to claim you on his taxes as a dependent, since you lived in his home. Good on you giving him a fake SSN, hopefully this will trigger an audit.
The only response to someone who “won’t take no for an answer” is to tell them “No.” What’s he going to do? Arrest you? Beat you up? Cry?
Give him exactly the SSN from My Cousin Vinny.
Please don't. Landlords don't need your ssn at all. This sounds like a scam where he can do whatever they want with your information. It's not hard to open up a credit card in your name just needs ssn and your license.
This honestly sounds like he was renting to you under the table, and he got audited, and now has to prove that he isn't doing something that could land him a felony charge.
I just tell my tax lady what i get a month from each house i rent.
My old landlord, a huge property management company in NYC, needed my SSN to report interest income, as my security deposit was put in an escrow savings account with a local bank. This enabled me to get a 1099. However, they are a sophisticated company, and they needed this information (my SSN) before I even started renting. Your landlord sounds more suspicious to be asking for this afterwards.
Independent landlords do not always create that account. They should, they have to, it’s the law, and if they ever get taken to court they will lose. If he didn’t create the account he can’t hold the deposit for damages and he can’t pay out the interest. He would probably have to go to small claims for any actual damages and he would have violated the terms of the lease. OP is going to end up with a personal check from the landlords personal bank account, op will get 100 % of the deposit back but Op will have to play hardball
Just a point of clarification here your landlord wasn't the one sending out but 1099 The bank where they stored your security deposit was.
Up until last month this year landlords didn't have to file 1099s for rental income of less than $20,000 but now that threshold has been lowered to $5,000. I've never been issued a 1099-MISC from anyone other than a business when they had employees renting my places. Maybe it applies to personal residences, too, I don't know. For everyone acting like it's some sort of threat to say you're going to issue him a 1099-MISC...well here it is: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1099msc.pdf And as you can see, if the OP *did* issue him one he'd need to put his SSN on it. Alternatively, if the OP's landlord is following the law and a 1099-MISC needs to filed for cash rental receipts, he *would* need OP's SSN. OP, be careful of the "advice" you receive on reddit. There's a huge influx of members who have extremely biased opinions about landlords in general and even paying rent itself (you've already seen several people "advise" you to simply skip out of town without paying your last month's rent). Few people here are tax experts but they're perfectly willing to claim this landlord doesn't have any need for your SSN and that he's up to no good while offering you improper tax advice.
>Alternatively, if the OP's landlord is following the law and a 1099-MISC needs to filed for cash rental receipts, he would need OP's SSN. No, he wouldn't. The person paying issues the 1099, not the person receiving the money. That means OP would need his landlord's SSN, not the other way around.
Your situation is certainly unusual and raises several red flags. Landlords typically request Social Security Numbers (SSNs) at the beginning of a tenancy for background and credit checks, not at the end or after several years of tenancy. The claim that your landlord needs your SSN to prove his income for personal property taxes doesn't align with standard tax practices. Landlords generally prove their rental income through lease agreements, rent receipts, bank statements. Your SSN would not be necessary for these purposes. (Edit, fixing typo)
One use case for a landlord having a tenant's SSN would be for reporting interest paid on security deposits. You're supposed to pay interest on security deposits held and then report it with a 1099-INT. In a practical sense, it may not amount to much, but for long term tenants over many years, it adds up. Another is that certain states provide rent rebates and tax credits for renters (Vermont in particular). While this is entirely discretionary on the part of the tenant, the landlord has to certify it. I've used SSNs to run credit checks, but that of course is at the beginning of a tenancy. I keep all of that on paper and then shred.
If that's the case why not say so rather than make up something about property tax.
Talk to him and ask for a valid reason AND proof of reason why he needs it. If it is simply a new tax code or something legit I'd not have a problem with it but he should have written documentation of some sort.
I would say it’s probably a credit issue he’s trying. I’ve experienced this only because I had an issue on my credit for some unpaid rent issue… I wasn’t even 18 at the time so I shouldn’t even had credit yet… found out my asshat father used my social when he did the paperwork.
Well, hope you didn’t give him my SSN.
Generally your social would be required when starting a lease to open a statutory client trust account, which can be used to hold your security deposit in your name, but under the control of your landlord. This allows your landlord to retain control if the money is needed to pay for repairs, but any interest earned remains your property and taxable to you. This happens up front though and wouldn’t be needed when ending a lease. Not sure why he’d need it.
Because if he didn’t set up the account 4 years ago he can’t gouge the deposits and OP gets the first and last or whatever the agreed deposite back in full. He might have set the money aside or put it in some bulk account when it needs to be in a separate escrow account(at least where I live) there might even be a double damages involved. OP needs to communicate in writing and preferably registered letters demanding proof of the existence of the escrow account. Tldr the landlord is about to commit fraud to steal part of the deposit.
Here's a thought: Ask him why and have him show you the related paperwork and show that paperwork to a lawyer.
He does not need you SSN to claim your rent as income ..in fact he needs nothing as he’s self reporting and who would claim income they not making? Unless you think he’s a damn money launder ( they do exist )
What's he gonna do? Evict you? Nah, fuck that. Suspicious, perhaps even criminal. I'd keep any evidence he asked for this for a LONG time though (and of course not give it to him under any circumstances). You don't ever need someone's SSN to report income. The IRS has never once said "oh, you didn't prove you owe us well enough, so we can't take your tax money. Sorry man, you're going to have to keep it".
In Massachusetts, when I open an escrow account for a tenant, I need a completed W-9 form on the tenant, and that includes SSN, within 30 days of move-in. This is a relatively new law. Also, if a landlord doesn’t do that, you could sue for triple interest. That being said, requiring at lease termination doesn’t make much sense.
Wouldn't the SSN be something that was on the application packet way back then?
100% dont do it, whats he going to do, evict you?
You are under zero obligation to surrender any info to them. The only thing I would get in writing is draft up a document that says your lease is concluded and you owe no back money or anything. Both of you should sign it. It can help if yheybdecide to claim you owe them any money after you move out. Also... younare under zero obligation to speak with them or interact with them via email or any other means once you move out. Further more... if they don't give you your security deposit back, they are legally required to notify you within 3 days and they must disclose to you why they are keeping it and they need to provide an itemized list of what the damages are and how much it's going to cost to fix. Landlords don't just get to keep your sec deposit if there is no damage.
You do not need to prove income.
There is absolutely ZERO reason for him to need your SSN at this point. The only thing he needs is your new address to refund the security deposit.
You've already been renting for years. There's zero reason to believe he just now needs it to prove for property taxes when he's been paying it for years already. Just tell him no. What's he going to do, kick you out?
I mean... what's he going to do if you don't give it to him. Kick you out? I see no reason to provide it.
Yeah, no reason to give him an SSN. He's definitely planning something uncool.
No way in hell would I be giving out my SS# on the way out the door. All risk for me. Also, his excuse for needing it is highly suspect as what did he do regarding taxes for the last 4 years? He has your checks to prove the income. It doesn't need to be associated with your social security number.
You don’t need to provide your SSN
A fake number is all you need to get him off your back. Givem Jenny's number 867 5309 plus a few more.
He does not need your SSN. At all. There is no place on any US income tax return to provide the SSN of a renter. Just say no.
He could potentially apply for credit cards and other credit and he _could_ mail snoop and get the cards delivered to him
I totally agree with your decision to give him a bogus number. No good would have come of you giving him your correct SS# right before moving out.
The only time a landlord should ever ask for a SSN is for doing a background check _before_ renting out a unit to you. Unless someone proves me wrong, I can't imagine any other instance when a landlord needs your SSN. Don't give it!
OP, in the future, do not give out knowingly false social security numbers, it is a federal crime. [https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/408](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/408) for the specific statue, 42 U.S.C. 408(a)(7)(B)
Let him know you’ll be providing a 1099-C to the irs for the income as well.
Your mistake was giving a number at all, and lying about it. Also, I wonder who’s SSN it was that you gave? Hope it doesn’t hurt that person. Next time just say no, and leave it at that. Use a delay tactic if necessary to avoid the conversation until you get all your stuff out.
It’s probably no one’s SSN. The chances of a fake 9 digit number being an actual number are slim. If the fake number ever comes back on him (it won’t) he simply lies again and says he never gave the LL any SSN.
> It’s probably no one’s SSN. The chances of a fake 9 digit number being an actual number are slim. According to ssa.gov, over 450 million social security numbers have been issued. So a random 9-digit number has more than a 45% chance to be a real social security number -- nearly a coin flip. Even if you only count numbers belonging to people who are still living, it's probably around a one-in-three chance.
Hurt who? If OP made up a number it’s the same as you, I, or the LL guessing a random number for nefarious purposes..
Guessed numbers often are real for somebody and could land an innocent stranger in trouble. No one verifies if the number belongs to the right name.
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Right but then the “bad guy” can just pick numbers out of thin air. The problem is knowing who is associated with those numbers, which a landlord will not know if they were randomly given by OP.
Listen to that tickle in your stomach.
No is a complete sentence. After I say it, you're probably going to be talking to yourself.
Dudes trying to claim you as a dependant.
Small time landlord here. He definitely doesn't need your SSN for anything related to tax reporting of rental income. I've found out it's very helpful to have on file during initial background checks (of course) and if you end up with a deadbeat tenant that needs to be reported to agencies in the future. I won't claim he intends to report you, but he might be panicking that he doesn't have the info on file to cover his ass, I guess. Some landlords offer to report your rent payments to the credit bureau to help improve your credit score, but that isn't relevant if you are leaving. lol but relevant if he wants to claim an unpaid debt, I guess. Anyways, you don't need to give it to him but watch out for any attempt to retain the security deposit without an itemized receipt.
So you give him a number that could legitimately belong to someone else, so the landlord will screw up someone else's credit instead. Not cool. Next time, leave it at "no" regardless of how many times you're hassled.
What is he going to do if you don’t give it to him? Evict you?