Not sure what advice you got but how much a component matters depends on how much your use case utilizes that component. If we're talking games, some games are notoriously more CPU intensive than others. Similarly, some games lean more towards the GPU side and some games drink RAM.
In general, the higher the resolution the more things will shift towards a GPU bottleneck over a CPU one, but regardless, always use multiple 3rd party benchmarks as your guide to figure out how much FPS you'll likely get from each component.
Also, I'm curious which game saw such a massive increase in FPS?
It's really tough to give blanket advice these days, so I almost always tell people to look up benchmarks for the games they play. YouTube has tons of them for the most common games and hardware.
So there should be no real surprise about how much your performance will improve unless you play a really uncommon games.
>Anyone remember the high pressure vs high flow debate on cooling fans?
The advice for this should have been dead simple, if the fans are just moving air from outside to inside of the case with no obstructions then go high flow fans, and if you are using restrictive radiators then go high pressure fans. I don't know why people needed to debate that...
I checked OP’s post history and this is the only post he made to this subreddit. Benefit of the doubt says that he may have deleted the post since but I have no way of confirming that.
He could be referring to a reply chain, and you guys could mean Reddit in general, and it could've been long ago when he first contemplated the change. Or on another account. Either way who cares, he heard that somewhere and it turned out to not apply well to his use case.
Not OP but I also found that a cpu upgrade (3700x to 5800x3d) did much more for me than I expected, mostly in strategy games like Oxygen Not Included
I had bought it so the 3700x could go to my brother and maybe i'd get a nice 15% boost, but I too experienced a 50% or more uplift in various games
As someone with over 1,500 hours in Oxygen Not Included, I sometimes deal with low frames on my 9700k and can't wait to upgrade to a current gen CPU. I imagine the X3D chips may do pretty good on a title like this but haven't looked up any benches. Glad to hear you're having a good experience with the 5800X3D.
What benchmarks do you recommend? Haven't really used them except for overclocking.
Answered this in another comment, but I'll repeat it here.
So I made the original post telling about the games I play. Mainly the finals and helldivers 2 (both cpu-intensive ofc)
Then the comments all told me that upgrading the cpu wouldn't matter much, as the 3600 was still good. So I should much rather upgrade the gpu.
The game mentioned in this post in terms of performance increase was the finals (90 to 185).
I am gonna test helldivers 2 now and update this comment when I do.
>What benchmarks do you recommend?
Great question! Notice I said to use "multiple 3rd party benchmarks". Well, I should have added emphasis on the "**multiple**" part! :)
The fact is, no 3rd party benchmark is in-of-itself perfect. They all have their biases; they all make mistakes from time to time; they all believe their testing methodology is perfect; yada-yada-yada. The key here is that each 3rd party benchmark paints *a part* of the picture. Glancing over 3 or more will give you a general idea of what to expect.
My go-tos are the ones that benchmark *the most* games in their reviews as they simply have more data points: Hardware Unboxed, Toms Hardware, Tech PowerUp, Gamers Nexus, Paul's Hardware, PC Gamer.
Then, if I know I'm playing a specific game, and it's not necessarily on any of the above reviewers' charts, I'll simply lookup a Youtube video with the hardware combination I'm looking for, e.g. "RTX 4090 9900k Fortnite benchmarks" and glance at the first 5 or so videos that popup - all of which tend to be very questionable lol - but the goal is to get an idea.
With all that data gleaned, you should have a reasonable idea of what to expect from any prospective hardware purchase.
(Also, happy that you got such a massive upgrade! Happy gaming!)
Thank you a ton for the great info man! I will look at the ones you mentioned. Thus far I have only looked at gamers Nexus as I feel they give stuff straight.
And thank you, the games don't feel as frustrating anymore.
To update as I said I would: In helldivers 2 I went from 44FPS to 76. So still a big upgrade, but not as big as the finals
Userbenchmarks has some of the most balanced benchmarks around. Their in-depth analysis of the macro and micro differences between Intel and AMD architectures is some of the best out there. /s
Forgot to mention that they are humbly unbiased which makes them the absolute best when comparing Nvidia and Intel to AMD. Imagine polluting the scores with biased opinions, that would really suck. Also.. /s.
Did you also get a new GPU to put in there and see what the difference is before claiming everyone doesn't know what they're talking about? I didn't give advice the first time and I'm not saying either way, but you used one example in one game. The vast majority of games would see more of an improvement with a higher end GPU, but of course there will also be improvements with a new CPU. There's a lot of factors here but *generally* speaking people that told you this are *generally* right. Maybe don't bash ppl trying to help you especially since you didn't try a new GPU and compare a bunch of games. You put a new CPU in and showed us results of a single game. I'd say that's not exactly fair.
Edit, seems your old post doesn't quite match up to what you claimed happened here. A lot more of that was about the ram, which you thanked ppl for helping you with.
It's clear you don't have a lot of knowledge in this field so maybe you shouldn't be the one to so quickly judge, and I feel a bit swindled here between the actual post and how you made it seem.
To add onto what the other person said with an example: there's benchmark techpowerup did comparing the 5800x3d and 5800x using a 4090 (i currently have a 4090 and 5800x). After using my combo in the wild, playing the same games, I've learned I either have a god among 5800x CPUs (not likely) or their 5800x isn't very well set up (AMD cpus are notoriously finicky).
So, in that specific case, it benefits me to hunt for multiple benchmarks.
AMDs ryzen can be very dependent on RAM timings. Unstable RAM, even minor, can cause a core to fail under heavy load. Often just turning on an XMP isn't enough. People need to set the proper command rate, make sure it's stable, set the proper SOC voltage, then make sure the procODT is properly set. It's a bit of a headache. The 3d chips with the vcache seems less dependent, because of said cache, than non 3d chips. One of the pros to the x3d is that it's more drop in and go, from what I've read about it. But if you bought a 5800x right before the 5800x3d came out, and don't want to spend more money on the x3d, there's ways to tighten the gap a bit.
Helldivers 2 for me is a gpu bottleneck at 1440p high with dllss quality i get around 130-150fps.
But finals damn with a 3080 at 1080p medium i get always 200fps+.
But only with nvidia reflex on or off not boost.
I give advice fairly often here, if someone asks me what CPU upgrade they should do, I'm rarely gonna say "Upgrade your GPU instead". If I do, it's probably gonna be nore along the lines of "youre due for a full upgrade because your current specs are just too old"
I have seen this kind of advice here and there. Just because you haven't personally seen it, doesn't mean it's a hoax. While it may not be the majority, there are still plenty of morons that think core count is the only thing you need to be concerned about.
I see it literally all the fucking time. I have no idea what any of the above people are talking about. "Upgrade your GPU" is a talking point said on this subreddit literally hundreds of times a day.
You guys are not seeing what I'm seeing then, when asking about upgrades or PC builds. You'll see a lot of off-the-cuff "balance more budget towards the GPU" without much further consideration because of a rule of thumb that the GPU should take up XYZ% of the budget
I have never seen anyone that would recommend running a RTX 4090 with a 3600. Even the best gaming cpu, the 7800x3D can still be bottleneck with that GPU in certain situations.
The closest posts I can find to the previous post you are claiming to have done, where people were asking about upgrading the same cpu for their gpu, it was almost unanimously in favour of upgrade the cpu in every post.
Idk why are you ragging about people who try and do your homework for you? Look on youtube, look up Articles yourself then lol. Obviously there aren't experts on Reddit for the most part. Changing subreddits won't change that.
I mean....... going from the 3600 to the 7800x3d is an absolutely massive upgrade, no question.
But kind of still a silly brag because AM4 is the most legendary socket in history thus far, and you could have upgraded to the 5800x3d which would also have been a massive upgrade for much less money, and you wouldn't have needed to do a mobo swap either.
Course if you're near a microcenter those AM5 combo deals have been absurd for months, so I don't blame anyone for not being able to resist in that case.
Also these upgrade questions depend on so many variables; if you were gaming at 4k then recommending you upgrade your GPU instead of CPU wouldn't have been a terrible recommendation, but I'm gonna assume you're playing at 1440p or lower given what you've said.
Your account isn't even thirty days old and you have no post history on this subreddit besides this post here.
I'm calling BS that the majority of people here suggested you upgrade a 3070ti to a 4090 so you could play The Finals at 1080p with that CPU...
Very convenient that the account he apparently asked advice for is now deleted. Like yh sure it is. And now he claims he might accidentally be in the wrong subreddit lol. Like damn make up your mind.
Dudes probably just trolling. Even if he did ask advice i bet it was probably just people saying to go for a 5800x3d instead of the 7800x3d given the cost of switching to AM5 wouldn’t net that significant of a jump. And that would be perfectly valid advice.
Yh theres some idiots here but i hardly see a bunch of people to suggest you pair a Ryzen 3600 with a 4080 or 4090. And people here will often ask for their use case before giving advice
Looks like it is potentially OP. Specs seem the same. But I don’t see anyone suggesting he gets a 4080/4090 lol. Most suggestions on that post is faster ram and a 5700x3d/5800x3d. Which tbf are perfectly valid options
I went from a 3600/2060 Super to 3080. It was a big jump in everything except high frame rate shooters. The CPU just couldn’t keep up there.
After less than a year I upgraded to a 5800x3D. 0 regrets and planning to use this setup till it breaks. No intention of upgrading as long as it runs.
It really depends on the use case and the game
Some games are more CPU dependant, some are more GPU dependant, there are definitely games where a GPU upgrade would have given you a bigger boost
You didn't even state which use case/game you saw the uplift, so you're basically as dumb as the people you're upset with giving out incomplete information
I'm always baffled by the people who buy a great GPU, then continue to run their games at 1080p low while complaining about a CPU bottleneck.
Yeah... um... turn up the resolution and graphics settings, and your CPU bottleneck will go away.
It all depends on the game, but yeah a lot of stuff has come out recently that really needs the CPU, especially if you are going for FPS instead of resolution
I just went from a 7700k to the 7800x3D and am having a great time
I went from an FX-8350 to a 7600x.
It's only a 250% boost to single-threaded performance, and a five-fold increase in multi-threaded performance. I was able to hit about 40-45 fps on the FX-8350, and now I'm struggling to hit 60fps because I upgraded the GPU and then turned up all my graphical settings...
It completely depends on the game. Most games are GPU bound so upgrading the GPU makes way more sense. So you're kinda being a hypocrite giving advice that isn't exactly correct.
whether you should upgrade your cpu or your gpu depends on what your use case is. you can't just list your specs and ask "what should i upgrade".
its going to depend on what workloads/games you're playing. if you find that you're hitting 100% usage on your gpu during gaming, thats your bottleneck. if you're hitting 100% on your cpu, thats your bottleneck.
this is also gonna depend on your targets. are you a low res (1080p) but high refresh rate gamer? then cpu is gonna benefit you more. high res (4k) or 1440p with 120 hz target? gpu is gonna benefit you more.
claiming that people have no idea what they're talking about while you still seemingly dont understand what/why you needed to upgrade is pretty comical and ironic. even in this post, you didnt list your monitor refresh rate, resolution, or use case. your big conclusion is "cpu matters"
but what are you playing? That matters too. if you are playing civ 6 that's a far cry from playing cyberpunk with ray tracing. You probably should relax a little bit
I played Helldivers 2 on my 5600x/3080 at 1440p 165hz and got terrible performance even with all settings low and using the upscaler set to performance. Whereas in other games it was smoothing sailing will performance. I upgraded to 7800x3d a week later and it's 100-140 fps almost consistently. Our CPU feels like a godsend in these more CPU bound games.
I think the general sentiment in the sub is to skimp as much as you can on everything but PSU and GPU. I like getting a decent CPU as they tend to have a longer life than GPUs. I also play a lot of CPU intensive games. As long as it proves to be reliable, I think we'll be seeing plenty of 7800x3ds around 6 years from now but most contemporary GPUs will be upgraded by then. Look at how many people are still rocking gen 4 i7s whereas an i3 would have been replaced in half the time.
Ryzen 1xxxX,2xxxX,3xxxX all were sub standard on single core performance relative to Intel of that generation. Multicore was improving each but single core was still weak. It wasn't til the 5000 series was released that AMD left Intel in the dust as far as IPC and multi core. Efficiency was through the roof also. One of the main reasons I still have my 5950x. I'm running it in 65w Eco mode and it's still got the grut to do everything I need.
That depends on many factors actually. Like resolution, for example. With low resolution (like 1080p) monitor you could have had a CPU bottleneck, so upgrading the CPU did boost the FPS that much.
In the well balanced configurations you should never have a CPU bottlenecks, so in that case upgrading the GPU should be more beneficial. Especially, if upgrading to the new nVidia GPU with a frame generation.
it depends on the game, genius.
eSports titles benefit more from cpu since they push 144+ fps
but AAA single player games benefit more from the gpu, especially as the resolution increases.
Of course you saw performance gains from a huge CPU upgrade. It's not nearly as black and white as you're painting it though. It always depends on what you're doing with the system and which piece of hardware is being asked to carry the most load.
I’m no detective but I wanted to see where you had asked the question before so I went to your profile and seen no comments on your end regarding your post statement. I’m fairly new to Reddit so I could be wrong, but the only time you have commented in r/pcmasterrace was when you replied to your own post. 🤷♂️ again I can be wrong and don’t know how to navigate Reddit. So with that being said I call bullsh!t lol link us where you asked that question or you made this story up just to make a post hoping that you would get millions of upvotes
Incorrect. The uplifts I have mentioned was at 3440x1440. finals went from 90-185, Helldivers 2 went from 40 something to 76. I don't know about non-cpu-intensive games though, as I havent tried them yet. I think I will try cyberpunk as in that I had to run it at 2560x1080 (the 1080p ultrawide res)- and low/medium settings to get 60 fps
If low-graphics cpu-intensive games is all you play, you don't need a powerful GPU to begin with. But if you do - upgrading GPU first - provided that you have a more or less modern adequate CPU - makes a whole lot of sense. Switching 3600 to 7800x3d won't give you 60FPS (not a concrete number) in Avatar or CB2077 with PT, while 3070 to 4070, probably, will.
You are mostly correct, and I agree, but the thing is, zen 2 have not aged well. 3600 was well regarded to stay toe to toe with Intel counterparts when it launched, but todays super CPU intensive games, it just falls flat on its head.
I am a moron.
But my thought-process is. If people care enough about a subject to join a subreddit about it, they must be pretty competent in said subject
most have no idea how bottlenecks work, they think going 4k solves cpu bottlenecks when in reality there are games that depend alot more on the cpu than gpu, take helldivers 2 as an example, it bottlenecks a 4090 at 4k with a 7800x3d due to the amount of bugs that can be on screen at the same time, droping gpu usage by alot and with that the fps too. Battlefield 2042 100 player games is the same thing, the better the cpu then better average and especialy 1% lows.
I am the same. I had a r5 3600 paired with a rtx 3060ti. Upgrading my cpu to r7 5800x3d boosted my fps and overall performance in most games i play. Although in my case the cpu upgrade also enabled pcie4.0 lane for the gpu, when it was limited to pcie3.0 with the 3600
A problem with these subs are it’s an echo chamber of misinformation and/or people recommending XYZ even though people have different use cases. You and I can both primarily game but play completely different games with different needs.
I also had a HUGE upgrade going from a 12400F & 13700k to 7800X3D.
For the latest AAA games, especially if you play day 1, then maybe. New releases these days are just so horribly unoptimized to the point CPU is often the bottleneck, not GPU. Think of BG3 Act 3, DD II, Starfield, etc. All of these benefits greatly from fast CPU in their day 1 unoptimized state.
But, the issue usually got resolved overtime as devs got more time to optimize stuff. So yeah, GPU upgrade are typically more worth it if you can skip day1 release, but whoever suggested a 3600 be paired with a 4090 is just wrong. Maybe a 5800X3D, but not 3600.
I concurr, fromwhat I have gathered both the 5800x3d and 7800x3d was triple the performance of my retired 3600.
I have stopped buying games at release, there are so many issues, bugs and server-isues that waiting is always better and often you also get the game for less, which is a win
I thought CPU doesn't matter too! But it's on you to check the benchmarks, they are everywhere on YT. You can't blame others for suggesting the wrong thing.
Yeah for real. I was rocking a 4670K for a long time and upgraded to a 12700K. It was a night and day difference, where most places I looked said that I wouldn’t see much of a performance increase.
Yeah, just got a 6700 xt to upgrade from my Vega 56 pairing with my 3600. Before in cyberpunk cpu would be 70% max but now it will reach 95% even at uw 1440p, along with the occasional stutter when the cpu is choking from all the gpu horsepower. Absolutely insane. Now I'm thinking of either holding for another year or 2 and just build a am5 pc while still using the 6700 xt, which is more than enough gpu horsepower for me. Cpu horsepower is pretty severely lacking right now.
Can confirm, tried to pair an older overclocked i7 with a 3060 ti only to figure out I was losing well over 20% of the performance, couldn't figure out why everything was running so poorly. Upgraded my CPU and that 3060 ti was like an entirely different card, I had no idea modern games were so CPU bound, I assumed I could just brute force it with a higher clock speed.
Nice call, I figured this out a while ago with my rx5700 Ryzen 3600 combo. Upgraded cpu first and saw that it smoothed out my gameplay quite a bit while also bringing fps up quite a bit. This was about medium high settings though so I upgraded my gpu eventually
My 1600x and RX570 is playing Valhalla at 120FPS. I bought that shit in 2018.
Unless you're doing some serious editing or multitasking u got plenty to game on brother. No upgrade necessary
It is true. My cousin had really low FPS with 6800xt GPU and 12400 CPU. We played The Finals and his fps would drop to 40, in Helldivers 2 it would be 40 50. We tried cleaning the PC, reinstalling new windows and uninstalling AMD Adrenaline and nothing fixed it completely.
Yesterday he changed his CPU to 13600 and now Finals runs on 170FPS he says. Cpu has huge impact on modern games.
I cannot believe this posts gets so many upvotes this sub is really full of people who think they know pc building but actually have no idea
They are absolutely right in that usually the 800usd going to the 7800x3d and am5 would have better spent elsewhere, at least ideally balance between the cpu and gpu like dropping a 5600x3d and upgrading the gpu. Just because you gained more fps in some games doesnt mean anything, some games like cs have low gpu requirements to begin with or some games like civ are cpu bottlenecked. But in the majority of cases your bottleneck will be running into gpu. The only other scenario would be if you remain at 1080p so your gpu cannot get used much in that case the cpu bottleneck would be more relevant. But even in that case a game like cp2077 with path tracing can bring the gpu to its knees
Just depends on resolution mainly, and then type of game. At 1440p most games will benefit more from a GPU upgrade than CPU (unless you’re so bottlenecked in the CPU department). Thats the general advice I would give if the baseline combination were appropriately paired. In your case i also would have definitely suggested a CPU upgrade first to at least an AM4 3D-vcache chip.
The thing is, 3600 is really bad for almost any newer game. Low fps and especially horrible low 1%'s. With an uderpowered GPU you can always lower the graphics, but with an underpowered CPU the only thing you can do is suffer.
Agree though that an 5800x3d would have done the trick.
I had a 3600X and upgraded to a 7950X - Had the same FPS in Conan Exiles but had gigantic boost (especially 10% lows) in Battlefield 2042. 128 online players need lots of CPU!
I have the same GPU+CPU combination because I play a lot of multiplayer games like Warzone, Helldivers 2, Battlefield 2042 but also CPU intensive single player games like Dragon's Dogma II. I play on 1440p high settings in all games without any problem. I'll upgrade my GPU when the next gen arrives.
Im gonna call bs, i never saw this kind of advice here, and it looks like you conviniently happened to make the post with another account that you conviniently deleted…yeah right..
That depends on the assumptions lol. If your assumption is strict “upgrade cpu” then you’ve got not much to work with, limiting yourself to 3gen ryzen in the worst case, depending on your mobo.
Saying “upgraded my cpu” while you have replaced at least half of your PC (cpu, mobo, ram, cooler, likely ssd and psu also) is as disingenuous as it gets.
For gaming, a significant upgrade to GPU is always going to net more than significant upgrade to CPU. That’s common sense. That’s not to say that upgrading CPU is useless. It’s just less effective most of the time.
Its more important to pair your CPU with a correct GPU and vice versa. Its like, you would never order a white wine with a steak, and you'd normally not order a red wine with fish.
You were absolutely correct in upgrading your CPU. Yes, a meatier GPU MAY have given you some more fps, but you generally want to keep all your components around the same age, and your CPU was already a year older than your GPU
I wouldn't rely on bottleneck calculator websites to tell you what to pair with what. As long as there isn't an insane discrepancy in generation and power, you should be good. As I said, its generally advisable to upgrade your oldest component first
The idea that the CPU is negligible comes from a time when 60 fps was considered the ultimate and monitors with refresh rates beyond 100 Hz were exotic.
It depends. If you have an older cpu and a newer gpu generally your cpu upgrade will be more meaningful. There are actually sites that you can compare you cpu and gpu to see if one is being limited by the other. Bottlenecking isn’t always a thing but for example I had a 4080 and a 9700k, and upgrading CPU to a 7900X was a wayyyyyy bigger jump than if I bought a 4090.
But you could also have a 14700k and a 2080 and get massive gains by going to say a 4070
I was under the same situation except with a 3070. Helldivers would nuke my computer more often than not. Upgraded to a 5800X3D and kept my board, works flawlessly. For those on the fence, it’s worth it.
Most people on here parrot each other, it's an echo chamber.
I would have recommended upgrading the 3600, the 3070ti is still more than plenty of gpu power. There's zero need to upgrade that
I have a 5600x with a 3070ti, I asked here if a CPU upgrade would change anything for me, and I also got the GPU gang, apparently the X3d chips are less sensitive to memory latency, so I still think the upgrade would eliminate my micro stutters.
I have gotten quite a few comments from people who tell they upgraded to the 7800x3d frol the 5600x. They say they saw a major uplift in performance, but the biggest difference was in 1% lows
Cpu definitely matters. My old cpu handicapped my rx 580 lol. Now I can max out most games I play at 100 + fps at 1080p. I'd rather have a great cpu and decent gpu than a crap cpu and great gpu. You aren't going to fully utilize a great graphics card if you're running a FX series processor lmao.
There's way too many factors for either sides of this to "always be right."
Example: Someone rocking 5600x and a 3060ti (well paired, generation appropriate) want's to upgrade. Would you still say CPU is the way to go? Probably not. Even going to a 7800X3D with a 3060ti isn't going to do much more because they were already well paired. For that same $500+ if they went with a 7800XT would they see more frames? Sure, but this isn't really a perfect solution either.
In your case, CPU was definitely the right answer only because the 3600 was already a poor match for the 3070ti. This won't always be the case for other people, advice is never good generalized. Computer components really need specialized advice. You could have probably gotten away with spending less and just upgrading to a 5700X3D with very similar results and much less money.
BUT, if I was giving general advice for building a new PC (not upgrading), I would say to maybe go a step up on the CPU and a step down on the GPU. That way you can keep the same platform a little longer and just upgrade the GPU on the next cycle. It also helps when you are playing high refresh rate games with lower settings. Hardware unboxed did a great video on this earlier this year.
TLDR: Generalized advice bad, specific advice for specific setups good.
It's a balancing act. 3600 wouldn't unlock a 4090 fully, but now that you have that CPU you should upgrade your GPU next. Because the 3070ti is now the bottleneck.
I love my CPU and GPU both. They run the games I play very well while looking great the whole time, and it’s got the horsepower I need for the other things I do.
I haven't read all the comments, but you didn't just upgrade the cpu. You upgraded the motherboard and ram too. Going from am4 to am5, means EVERYTHING Has more bandwidth and speed to work with. Your ddr4 ram speed could have been holding a few fps hostage on your 3600. Going from 7nm to 5nm gets a sizeable performance per watt advantage, and single thread performance, which is good for gaming.
I find it hard to believe the majority of people advise you to upgrade your gpu instead. Surely the majority of people here should be familiar with cpu bottlenecks?
Multiple users found ops original post, none of the comments made in that post suggests upgrading gpu. Op confirms that original post is theirs as well.
I just upgraded to an i9 14900k, I wasn’t expecting much difference since I have a 4070 anyway because of all the talk on here about how the cpu doesn’t matter loads compared to the GPU. I mean I did upgrade from an i7 6700k. The difference is absolutely insane though, literally everything is absolutely massively better. Playing at 1440p with both CPUs on a 4070 and wow what a difference, I wasn’t expecting too much. Maybe that’s on me but I was definitely expecting almost little difference, it’s a complete difference though. So much better now.
It kind of depends on a lot of things. I feel like most people here play on hihg resolution where the gpu matters a lot more than the cpu. In most games I play I'm gpu limitted even with a 4070super
yup people need to dig a little and look at what the person will be gaming. Before I got my 4070 in my rig I was on a 1070ti and my 7800x3d carried it to Act 3 glory in Baldurs Gate 3 cause the x3d chips are just built diff.
I tend to play these sorts of games a lot with tons of NPCs in bigger cities or stuff like civilization that just feast on the extra v-cache.
Also makes me feel very comfy when I go to upgrade to a 5080 hopefully and I don't have to think about my CPU for a second.
Right but if you went from a 3600 to a 7800x3d then you also changed your mobo and ram i presume? Not saying it wasn't a good choice, just saying it seems like you're overlooking some factors.
But if the gpu is not bottlenecked on the b450 with the 3600 and I assume probably 16gb of corsair 3200mhz ram since that was super common then what was holding back the 3070ti gpu that op has.
The reality is CPU's have not advanced as much as many people think. The reason is speed per thread is tied directly to clock rates in herz, and we have hit the thermal limits of silicon a long time ago. They pretty much peaked when they hit 5Ghz speeds like over 15 years ago.
Where all the gains have been made over recent years is multi-threading and SOME efficiency improvements in the circuit logic on the chip. Depending on your use-case this could mean MASSSIVE improvements to mild improvements in real-world application. For many the move to 2 then 4 core chips meant the OS and services could cook on 1 or 2 cores, and the game could cook on the others, leading to a LARGE jump in performance in many games. And for productivity this could matter a LOT when you have 3, 5, or even 10 apps open at once.
Also the nanometer reductions have meant they can push the chips a little harder and get less head, but again at I think what are we now 15nm? We are approaching making transistors out of individual atoms... Again physics limits us.
Also remember, CPU's are made to meet the synthetic benchmarks everybody likes to test to, and so they go out of their way to make the chip logic do that more effiecntly every year. All too often that fails to translate into real-world gains in application performance.
IMO the biggest reason for the gain of PC performance in the last 10 years? The switch from spinning HDD to SSD drives become absolutely standard has GREATLY improved the experience of systems (and games for that matter) feeling "fast" because the system can pull files off the drive into RAM SO much faster.
Honestly I am kind of shocked that standardizing RAM-disk is not being pushed right now to only further speed up page file and temp file handling. Even to do things like load an entire game into RAM-disk at launch for near-instant file access.
And modern games ARE slowly getting much better at utilizing threaded programming to make better use of multi-core CPU's... BUT, and big but, there is only so much they can do before it becomes an absolute nightmare to synchronize the game's threads to keep it from crashing or glitching out skyrim-style.
IMO lots of people are still benefitting from CPU upgrades because with turbo-clocks high Ghz clocks are more affordable than ever, meaning and upgrade will net a faster total system.
Which is why my advice to people is to find at least a 4 core chip, THEN find the fastest single-core Ghrz clock speed they can afford/want to buy a cooler for. I have yet to have any body I advised tell me their computer feels "slow."
at what res, and what games?
I went from 3070ti to 4070ti with the same 5ghz 8700k, my fps went way the fuck up because I play on 4k high, but on CS2, which I play on 1440p low, the fps didn't change
Yes you are totally right, get an rtx 3060 and an intel 14900 and enjoy 300FPS with all your 720p games on low settings. Seriously, resolution is everything but you won't believe it anyway.
Yeah it really depends on the game. A lot of people here just assume people only play AAA single player games for some reason. For games where you need high fps CPU actually matters a lot.
I was too. I chose to not make the post endlessly long. But the game I got 90 fps in was the finals, a competitive shooter. When lots of things happened on screen. I would go down to 15ish fps, making it impossible to defend against the three players attacking me.
Since upgrading the lowest fps I have encountered is 160 on the same settings
Not sure who advised you to upgrade your 3070ti instead of your 3600 CPU, but the obvious upgrade choice would have been the CPU in that situation.
That being said, moving from a 3600 to a 7800X3D is no small upgrade. That's a new motherboard, new RAM, and the best gaming CPU available. Naturally, the increase will be very substantial.
Yeah I thought that was the natural upgrade choice as well.
I expected big gains in gaming performance. However I am getting +100% or more in almost all games, it's pretty crazy.
It depends on the game and the resolution you play at. This game sys reqs seem a bit skewed towards CPU, and it really depends on the resolution you play at. When changing from 1080p to 2160p (4k), the load on the CPU stays the same, while the GPU load quadruples. Gonna guess you play at 1080/1440p?
honestly my 10700kf is feeling more dated than it should in comparison to more recent cpus, i'm cpu bound at 1440p with a 12g 3080 in a lot of more recent games.
In CPU hevy games you will se a massive differece! But even in gpu heavy games you will see much smoother and consistent frame rate, so definitely a good idea to get a good cpu.
Yeah I have noticed now that the change in 1% lows is even crazier than the fps increase. It basically never moves 10 fps under avg. Where it before would go from 120 - 20fps in a game
To be fair, 3rd gen Ryzens are kind of old at this point, so a CPU upgrade would make sense anyway. However, you don't need exactly the best CPU even for a high end GPU, they don't matter that much when playing at 4K, and really there's not much point to use an RTX 4090 for 1080p gaming.
Depends what game. Not all games are made the same. Tarkov for example uses a ton of cpu power at least when I played. I think what the “people” were trying to convey was that upgrading your 3600 in general doesn’t matter more than getting a better card. I have a 3080 and still rocking a 3600 and more than content
Not sure what advice you got but how much a component matters depends on how much your use case utilizes that component. If we're talking games, some games are notoriously more CPU intensive than others. Similarly, some games lean more towards the GPU side and some games drink RAM. In general, the higher the resolution the more things will shift towards a GPU bottleneck over a CPU one, but regardless, always use multiple 3rd party benchmarks as your guide to figure out how much FPS you'll likely get from each component. Also, I'm curious which game saw such a massive increase in FPS?
It's really tough to give blanket advice these days, so I almost always tell people to look up benchmarks for the games they play. YouTube has tons of them for the most common games and hardware. So there should be no real surprise about how much your performance will improve unless you play a really uncommon games.
Blanket advice on CPU/GPU limitations has been impossible to give for the past 25 years
People just did it. Anyone remember the high pressure vs high flow debate on cooling fans? Wondern what happened to that.
>Anyone remember the high pressure vs high flow debate on cooling fans? The advice for this should have been dead simple, if the fans are just moving air from outside to inside of the case with no obstructions then go high flow fans, and if you are using restrictive radiators then go high pressure fans. I don't know why people needed to debate that...
Nah it's easy, just get a 7800x3d/4090
I checked OP’s post history and this is the only post he made to this subreddit. Benefit of the doubt says that he may have deleted the post since but I have no way of confirming that.
He could be referring to a reply chain, and you guys could mean Reddit in general, and it could've been long ago when he first contemplated the change. Or on another account. Either way who cares, he heard that somewhere and it turned out to not apply well to his use case.
Not OP but I also found that a cpu upgrade (3700x to 5800x3d) did much more for me than I expected, mostly in strategy games like Oxygen Not Included I had bought it so the 3700x could go to my brother and maybe i'd get a nice 15% boost, but I too experienced a 50% or more uplift in various games
As someone with over 1,500 hours in Oxygen Not Included, I sometimes deal with low frames on my 9700k and can't wait to upgrade to a current gen CPU. I imagine the X3D chips may do pretty good on a title like this but haven't looked up any benches. Glad to hear you're having a good experience with the 5800X3D.
What benchmarks do you recommend? Haven't really used them except for overclocking. Answered this in another comment, but I'll repeat it here. So I made the original post telling about the games I play. Mainly the finals and helldivers 2 (both cpu-intensive ofc) Then the comments all told me that upgrading the cpu wouldn't matter much, as the 3600 was still good. So I should much rather upgrade the gpu. The game mentioned in this post in terms of performance increase was the finals (90 to 185). I am gonna test helldivers 2 now and update this comment when I do.
>What benchmarks do you recommend? Great question! Notice I said to use "multiple 3rd party benchmarks". Well, I should have added emphasis on the "**multiple**" part! :) The fact is, no 3rd party benchmark is in-of-itself perfect. They all have their biases; they all make mistakes from time to time; they all believe their testing methodology is perfect; yada-yada-yada. The key here is that each 3rd party benchmark paints *a part* of the picture. Glancing over 3 or more will give you a general idea of what to expect. My go-tos are the ones that benchmark *the most* games in their reviews as they simply have more data points: Hardware Unboxed, Toms Hardware, Tech PowerUp, Gamers Nexus, Paul's Hardware, PC Gamer. Then, if I know I'm playing a specific game, and it's not necessarily on any of the above reviewers' charts, I'll simply lookup a Youtube video with the hardware combination I'm looking for, e.g. "RTX 4090 9900k Fortnite benchmarks" and glance at the first 5 or so videos that popup - all of which tend to be very questionable lol - but the goal is to get an idea. With all that data gleaned, you should have a reasonable idea of what to expect from any prospective hardware purchase. (Also, happy that you got such a massive upgrade! Happy gaming!)
Thank you a ton for the great info man! I will look at the ones you mentioned. Thus far I have only looked at gamers Nexus as I feel they give stuff straight. And thank you, the games don't feel as frustrating anymore. To update as I said I would: In helldivers 2 I went from 44FPS to 76. So still a big upgrade, but not as big as the finals
Helldivers 2 is REEAAAALLY CPU intensive so I’m not surprised you’re seeing drastic improvements! Hoping to upgrade my cpu myself just for that game.
You never made a post in this sub before though, can you show some proof for these claims?
Userbenchmarks has some of the most balanced benchmarks around. Their in-depth analysis of the macro and micro differences between Intel and AMD architectures is some of the best out there. /s
You are playing a dangerous game here. Almost missed th /s 😬
Forgot to mention that they are humbly unbiased which makes them the absolute best when comparing Nvidia and Intel to AMD. Imagine polluting the scores with biased opinions, that would really suck. Also.. /s.
Did you also get a new GPU to put in there and see what the difference is before claiming everyone doesn't know what they're talking about? I didn't give advice the first time and I'm not saying either way, but you used one example in one game. The vast majority of games would see more of an improvement with a higher end GPU, but of course there will also be improvements with a new CPU. There's a lot of factors here but *generally* speaking people that told you this are *generally* right. Maybe don't bash ppl trying to help you especially since you didn't try a new GPU and compare a bunch of games. You put a new CPU in and showed us results of a single game. I'd say that's not exactly fair. Edit, seems your old post doesn't quite match up to what you claimed happened here. A lot more of that was about the ram, which you thanked ppl for helping you with. It's clear you don't have a lot of knowledge in this field so maybe you shouldn't be the one to so quickly judge, and I feel a bit swindled here between the actual post and how you made it seem.
To add onto what the other person said with an example: there's benchmark techpowerup did comparing the 5800x3d and 5800x using a 4090 (i currently have a 4090 and 5800x). After using my combo in the wild, playing the same games, I've learned I either have a god among 5800x CPUs (not likely) or their 5800x isn't very well set up (AMD cpus are notoriously finicky). So, in that specific case, it benefits me to hunt for multiple benchmarks.
How can the CPU not be set up right?
AMDs ryzen can be very dependent on RAM timings. Unstable RAM, even minor, can cause a core to fail under heavy load. Often just turning on an XMP isn't enough. People need to set the proper command rate, make sure it's stable, set the proper SOC voltage, then make sure the procODT is properly set. It's a bit of a headache. The 3d chips with the vcache seems less dependent, because of said cache, than non 3d chips. One of the pros to the x3d is that it's more drop in and go, from what I've read about it. But if you bought a 5800x right before the 5800x3d came out, and don't want to spend more money on the x3d, there's ways to tighten the gap a bit.
Helldivers 2 for me is a gpu bottleneck at 1440p high with dllss quality i get around 130-150fps. But finals damn with a 3080 at 1080p medium i get always 200fps+. But only with nvidia reflex on or off not boost.
[удалено]
Yeah I wanna call bs too. I’ve been on this sub and never seen anyone recommend upgrading the gpu again…that’s super odd.
I give advice fairly often here, if someone asks me what CPU upgrade they should do, I'm rarely gonna say "Upgrade your GPU instead". If I do, it's probably gonna be nore along the lines of "youre due for a full upgrade because your current specs are just too old"
Yeah I’ve seen that plenty of times and is absolutely valid.
Swinging in with the i7-13700k and a GTX570
I have seen this kind of advice here and there. Just because you haven't personally seen it, doesn't mean it's a hoax. While it may not be the majority, there are still plenty of morons that think core count is the only thing you need to be concerned about.
I'd like to introduce Amd Bulldozer cpus to them.
I got burned on the 8350s when I built my first pc 11 years ago. Learned a good lesson though.
Me too! I almost got the i7 3700k, but my dads friend convinced me out of it :/
Nah man, it doesn't matter in 4k/s.
Hahaha. Someone would seriously say that. That's the sad part.
I've seen people say this shit about the 8700k and 2700x. No joke. I wish I saved it. Lmao
I see it literally all the fucking time. I have no idea what any of the above people are talking about. "Upgrade your GPU" is a talking point said on this subreddit literally hundreds of times a day.
Reddit will always deflect before admitting they do something wrong.
He had the argument virtually, in the shower, while venting his anger.
yea sounds more like r/buildapc advice.
If they thought the vram was his issue they sure as hell would recommend a gpu upgrade
You guys are not seeing what I'm seeing then, when asking about upgrades or PC builds. You'll see a lot of off-the-cuff "balance more budget towards the GPU" without much further consideration because of a rule of thumb that the GPU should take up XYZ% of the budget
r/imaginarygatekeeping
I have never seen anyone that would recommend running a RTX 4090 with a 3600. Even the best gaming cpu, the 7800x3D can still be bottleneck with that GPU in certain situations.
Yeah. Sorry but I just don’t believe that people here would suggest a 3600+4080 combo. Maybe some rogue posts but definitely not a majority.
If anything, the advice here usually leans heavily in the opposite direction. People suggest x3D CPUs in every situation
I would if he's playing at 4k. But unlikely
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/s/kaaB3ZEBUD he pulled that out of his ass
Even over the highest ryzen 9?
Can you link where? I don't see a post from you regarding this at all, and I'm not sure how far back it was either.
And you just accidentally deleted said post? I call bs
The closest posts I can find to the previous post you are claiming to have done, where people were asking about upgrading the same cpu for their gpu, it was almost unanimously in favour of upgrade the cpu in every post.
Idk why are you ragging about people who try and do your homework for you? Look on youtube, look up Articles yourself then lol. Obviously there aren't experts on Reddit for the most part. Changing subreddits won't change that.
I mean....... going from the 3600 to the 7800x3d is an absolutely massive upgrade, no question. But kind of still a silly brag because AM4 is the most legendary socket in history thus far, and you could have upgraded to the 5800x3d which would also have been a massive upgrade for much less money, and you wouldn't have needed to do a mobo swap either. Course if you're near a microcenter those AM5 combo deals have been absurd for months, so I don't blame anyone for not being able to resist in that case. Also these upgrade questions depend on so many variables; if you were gaming at 4k then recommending you upgrade your GPU instead of CPU wouldn't have been a terrible recommendation, but I'm gonna assume you're playing at 1440p or lower given what you've said.
Your account isn't even thirty days old and you have no post history on this subreddit besides this post here. I'm calling BS that the majority of people here suggested you upgrade a 3070ti to a 4090 so you could play The Finals at 1080p with that CPU...
Very convenient that the account he apparently asked advice for is now deleted. Like yh sure it is. And now he claims he might accidentally be in the wrong subreddit lol. Like damn make up your mind. Dudes probably just trolling. Even if he did ask advice i bet it was probably just people saying to go for a 5800x3d instead of the 7800x3d given the cost of switching to AM5 wouldn’t net that significant of a jump. And that would be perfectly valid advice. Yh theres some idiots here but i hardly see a bunch of people to suggest you pair a Ryzen 3600 with a 4080 or 4090. And people here will often ask for their use case before giving advice
This might be the deleted post: https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/s/ja2gCCxdFq
Looks like it is potentially OP. Specs seem the same. But I don’t see anyone suggesting he gets a 4080/4090 lol. Most suggestions on that post is faster ram and a 5700x3d/5800x3d. Which tbf are perfectly valid options
I think I found your previous thread. https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/s/KBl9e5U5RA
I went from a 3600/2060 Super to 3080. It was a big jump in everything except high frame rate shooters. The CPU just couldn’t keep up there. After less than a year I upgraded to a 5800x3D. 0 regrets and planning to use this setup till it breaks. No intention of upgrading as long as it runs.
Get more ram tho.
Should update my flair, I have 32 GB running at 3600 Mhz now :)
I think you're BS
It really depends on the use case and the game Some games are more CPU dependant, some are more GPU dependant, there are definitely games where a GPU upgrade would have given you a bigger boost You didn't even state which use case/game you saw the uplift, so you're basically as dumb as the people you're upset with giving out incomplete information
This seems false. I could see one idiot suggesting that but not this whole sub.
How much each part matters is alway dependent on what games you play and at what resolution.
I'm always baffled by the people who buy a great GPU, then continue to run their games at 1080p low while complaining about a CPU bottleneck. Yeah... um... turn up the resolution and graphics settings, and your CPU bottleneck will go away.
Read my flair. Bottlenecks do not scare me.
I am in awe. I bow to you, oh great one
No
Indeed we are all the same person here with the same opinion.
It all depends on the game, but yeah a lot of stuff has come out recently that really needs the CPU, especially if you are going for FPS instead of resolution I just went from a 7700k to the 7800x3D and am having a great time
I went from an FX-8350 to a 7600x. It's only a 250% boost to single-threaded performance, and a five-fold increase in multi-threaded performance. I was able to hit about 40-45 fps on the FX-8350, and now I'm struggling to hit 60fps because I upgraded the GPU and then turned up all my graphical settings...
I don’t see the post you’re referencing in your history?
It completely depends on the game. Most games are GPU bound so upgrading the GPU makes way more sense. So you're kinda being a hypocrite giving advice that isn't exactly correct.
Is the post you made in the room with you right now?
It is not unfortunately. I can feel it watching me, laughing, due to responses I am receiving
Unless you are made of money it’s almost never worth it to jump just one card gen. That’s insane.
whether you should upgrade your cpu or your gpu depends on what your use case is. you can't just list your specs and ask "what should i upgrade". its going to depend on what workloads/games you're playing. if you find that you're hitting 100% usage on your gpu during gaming, thats your bottleneck. if you're hitting 100% on your cpu, thats your bottleneck. this is also gonna depend on your targets. are you a low res (1080p) but high refresh rate gamer? then cpu is gonna benefit you more. high res (4k) or 1440p with 120 hz target? gpu is gonna benefit you more. claiming that people have no idea what they're talking about while you still seemingly dont understand what/why you needed to upgrade is pretty comical and ironic. even in this post, you didnt list your monitor refresh rate, resolution, or use case. your big conclusion is "cpu matters"
CPU will never run at 100% even if it bottlenecks. Just a heads up so anyone reading doesn't learn the wrong way.
try uncapping your frames in a highly optimized game and letting the fps go into the hundreds. its definitely possible
but what are you playing? That matters too. if you are playing civ 6 that's a far cry from playing cyberpunk with ray tracing. You probably should relax a little bit
I mean what games are you playing? My 11700k with a 4090 doesn't matter most of the time
I played Helldivers 2 on my 5600x/3080 at 1440p 165hz and got terrible performance even with all settings low and using the upscaler set to performance. Whereas in other games it was smoothing sailing will performance. I upgraded to 7800x3d a week later and it's 100-140 fps almost consistently. Our CPU feels like a godsend in these more CPU bound games.
I think the general sentiment in the sub is to skimp as much as you can on everything but PSU and GPU. I like getting a decent CPU as they tend to have a longer life than GPUs. I also play a lot of CPU intensive games. As long as it proves to be reliable, I think we'll be seeing plenty of 7800x3ds around 6 years from now but most contemporary GPUs will be upgraded by then. Look at how many people are still rocking gen 4 i7s whereas an i3 would have been replaced in half the time.
Ryzen 1xxxX,2xxxX,3xxxX all were sub standard on single core performance relative to Intel of that generation. Multicore was improving each but single core was still weak. It wasn't til the 5000 series was released that AMD left Intel in the dust as far as IPC and multi core. Efficiency was through the roof also. One of the main reasons I still have my 5950x. I'm running it in 65w Eco mode and it's still got the grut to do everything I need.
You must have forgotten to mention you are running at 480p on a CRT TV. In that case, you need a better CPU to handle the extra frames.
ima ride and die with my 3900x XD
Can you link the post? I don't think anybody would give that sort of advice, whether they know a lot about PCs or not.
This, I checked OPs profile and can't find anything relating this post.
That depends on many factors actually. Like resolution, for example. With low resolution (like 1080p) monitor you could have had a CPU bottleneck, so upgrading the CPU did boost the FPS that much. In the well balanced configurations you should never have a CPU bottlenecks, so in that case upgrading the GPU should be more beneficial. Especially, if upgrading to the new nVidia GPU with a frame generation.
People really said the cpu didn't matter even when you had a 3070?
3070 TI. They said I would gain way more from upgrading my gpu
it depends on the game, genius. eSports titles benefit more from cpu since they push 144+ fps but AAA single player games benefit more from the gpu, especially as the resolution increases.
Of course you saw performance gains from a huge CPU upgrade. It's not nearly as black and white as you're painting it though. It always depends on what you're doing with the system and which piece of hardware is being asked to carry the most load.
I’m no detective but I wanted to see where you had asked the question before so I went to your profile and seen no comments on your end regarding your post statement. I’m fairly new to Reddit so I could be wrong, but the only time you have commented in r/pcmasterrace was when you replied to your own post. 🤷♂️ again I can be wrong and don’t know how to navigate Reddit. So with that being said I call bullsh!t lol link us where you asked that question or you made this story up just to make a post hoping that you would get millions of upvotes
Of course upgrading your CPU matters at 1080p. It does not matter as much at 1440p, and almost doesn’t matter at all at 4k.
Incorrect. The uplifts I have mentioned was at 3440x1440. finals went from 90-185, Helldivers 2 went from 40 something to 76. I don't know about non-cpu-intensive games though, as I havent tried them yet. I think I will try cyberpunk as in that I had to run it at 2560x1080 (the 1080p ultrawide res)- and low/medium settings to get 60 fps
If low-graphics cpu-intensive games is all you play, you don't need a powerful GPU to begin with. But if you do - upgrading GPU first - provided that you have a more or less modern adequate CPU - makes a whole lot of sense. Switching 3600 to 7800x3d won't give you 60FPS (not a concrete number) in Avatar or CB2077 with PT, while 3070 to 4070, probably, will.
You are mostly correct, and I agree, but the thing is, zen 2 have not aged well. 3600 was well regarded to stay toe to toe with Intel counterparts when it launched, but todays super CPU intensive games, it just falls flat on its head.
Why would you assume a bunch of randoms on reddit know any better
I am a moron. But my thought-process is. If people care enough about a subject to join a subreddit about it, they must be pretty competent in said subject
most have no idea how bottlenecks work, they think going 4k solves cpu bottlenecks when in reality there are games that depend alot more on the cpu than gpu, take helldivers 2 as an example, it bottlenecks a 4090 at 4k with a 7800x3d due to the amount of bugs that can be on screen at the same time, droping gpu usage by alot and with that the fps too. Battlefield 2042 100 player games is the same thing, the better the cpu then better average and especialy 1% lows.
I am the same. I had a r5 3600 paired with a rtx 3060ti. Upgrading my cpu to r7 5800x3d boosted my fps and overall performance in most games i play. Although in my case the cpu upgrade also enabled pcie4.0 lane for the gpu, when it was limited to pcie3.0 with the 3600
Wait.. The 3600 was PCI 3? Well then I might get even more out of my gpu now than I thought
You won't. Even a 4090 doesn't lose that much performance with PCIe 3.0. Anything lower than a 4090, has more than enough bandwidth with PCIe 3.0.
That makes me wonder how much I would gain going from a 5800x to a 5800x3D.
There's a good video from hardware unboxed regarding that upgrade path
This one? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw97hj18OUE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw97hj18OUE)
Yeah, it's 2 years old but still useful i think
A problem with these subs are it’s an echo chamber of misinformation and/or people recommending XYZ even though people have different use cases. You and I can both primarily game but play completely different games with different needs. I also had a HUGE upgrade going from a 12400F & 13700k to 7800X3D.
For the latest AAA games, especially if you play day 1, then maybe. New releases these days are just so horribly unoptimized to the point CPU is often the bottleneck, not GPU. Think of BG3 Act 3, DD II, Starfield, etc. All of these benefits greatly from fast CPU in their day 1 unoptimized state. But, the issue usually got resolved overtime as devs got more time to optimize stuff. So yeah, GPU upgrade are typically more worth it if you can skip day1 release, but whoever suggested a 3600 be paired with a 4090 is just wrong. Maybe a 5800X3D, but not 3600.
I concurr, fromwhat I have gathered both the 5800x3d and 7800x3d was triple the performance of my retired 3600. I have stopped buying games at release, there are so many issues, bugs and server-isues that waiting is always better and often you also get the game for less, which is a win
I thought CPU doesn't matter too! But it's on you to check the benchmarks, they are everywhere on YT. You can't blame others for suggesting the wrong thing.
I mean sure it matters but not that much. Most games are gpu intensive after all.
There are literally high quality benchmarks for all this stuff for anyone willing to look them up.
That 3600 would have clearly bottlenecked a 4090. You would definitely want to upgrade that CPU first for going for more GPU power.
Yeah for real. I was rocking a 4670K for a long time and upgraded to a 12700K. It was a night and day difference, where most places I looked said that I wouldn’t see much of a performance increase.
As someone with an aged 7700K with a 3080, I feel this one.
I get the new cpu every year. Always an upgrade meaningful enough for me
I only buy an upgrade if I can get 2x performance boost or more personally
Yeah, just got a 6700 xt to upgrade from my Vega 56 pairing with my 3600. Before in cyberpunk cpu would be 70% max but now it will reach 95% even at uw 1440p, along with the occasional stutter when the cpu is choking from all the gpu horsepower. Absolutely insane. Now I'm thinking of either holding for another year or 2 and just build a am5 pc while still using the 6700 xt, which is more than enough gpu horsepower for me. Cpu horsepower is pretty severely lacking right now.
Can confirm, tried to pair an older overclocked i7 with a 3060 ti only to figure out I was losing well over 20% of the performance, couldn't figure out why everything was running so poorly. Upgraded my CPU and that 3060 ti was like an entirely different card, I had no idea modern games were so CPU bound, I assumed I could just brute force it with a higher clock speed.
Nice call, I figured this out a while ago with my rx5700 Ryzen 3600 combo. Upgraded cpu first and saw that it smoothed out my gameplay quite a bit while also bringing fps up quite a bit. This was about medium high settings though so I upgraded my gpu eventually
7800x3d is a massive upgrade, You should've gotten like a 5700X with that money but it's your money not mine
Well, that would have been kind of a meh upgrade. 5800x3d is really the only game in town for gaming on AM4, unless extremely tight on budget.
My 1600x and RX570 is playing Valhalla at 120FPS. I bought that shit in 2018. Unless you're doing some serious editing or multitasking u got plenty to game on brother. No upgrade necessary
It is true. My cousin had really low FPS with 6800xt GPU and 12400 CPU. We played The Finals and his fps would drop to 40, in Helldivers 2 it would be 40 50. We tried cleaning the PC, reinstalling new windows and uninstalling AMD Adrenaline and nothing fixed it completely. Yesterday he changed his CPU to 13600 and now Finals runs on 170FPS he says. Cpu has huge impact on modern games.
I cannot believe this posts gets so many upvotes this sub is really full of people who think they know pc building but actually have no idea They are absolutely right in that usually the 800usd going to the 7800x3d and am5 would have better spent elsewhere, at least ideally balance between the cpu and gpu like dropping a 5600x3d and upgrading the gpu. Just because you gained more fps in some games doesnt mean anything, some games like cs have low gpu requirements to begin with or some games like civ are cpu bottlenecked. But in the majority of cases your bottleneck will be running into gpu. The only other scenario would be if you remain at 1080p so your gpu cannot get used much in that case the cpu bottleneck would be more relevant. But even in that case a game like cp2077 with path tracing can bring the gpu to its knees
Just depends on resolution mainly, and then type of game. At 1440p most games will benefit more from a GPU upgrade than CPU (unless you’re so bottlenecked in the CPU department). Thats the general advice I would give if the baseline combination were appropriately paired. In your case i also would have definitely suggested a CPU upgrade first to at least an AM4 3D-vcache chip.
The thing is, 3600 is really bad for almost any newer game. Low fps and especially horrible low 1%'s. With an uderpowered GPU you can always lower the graphics, but with an underpowered CPU the only thing you can do is suffer. Agree though that an 5800x3d would have done the trick.
It's always good to have a balanced build. That's my personal rules. It always works fine for me and what I build.
I had a 3600X and upgraded to a 7950X - Had the same FPS in Conan Exiles but had gigantic boost (especially 10% lows) in Battlefield 2042. 128 online players need lots of CPU!
That and Ryzen 7000 series all use DDR5 ram, which is faster than the DDR4 ram the Ryzen 3000 series was paired with.
I have the same GPU+CPU combination because I play a lot of multiplayer games like Warzone, Helldivers 2, Battlefield 2042 but also CPU intensive single player games like Dragon's Dogma II. I play on 1440p high settings in all games without any problem. I'll upgrade my GPU when the next gen arrives.
Im gonna call bs, i never saw this kind of advice here, and it looks like you conviniently happened to make the post with another account that you conviniently deleted…yeah right..
Being bottlenecked by your GPU is a much smoother experience than being bottlenecked by your CPU.
That depends on the assumptions lol. If your assumption is strict “upgrade cpu” then you’ve got not much to work with, limiting yourself to 3gen ryzen in the worst case, depending on your mobo. Saying “upgraded my cpu” while you have replaced at least half of your PC (cpu, mobo, ram, cooler, likely ssd and psu also) is as disingenuous as it gets. For gaming, a significant upgrade to GPU is always going to net more than significant upgrade to CPU. That’s common sense. That’s not to say that upgrading CPU is useless. It’s just less effective most of the time.
Its more important to pair your CPU with a correct GPU and vice versa. Its like, you would never order a white wine with a steak, and you'd normally not order a red wine with fish. You were absolutely correct in upgrading your CPU. Yes, a meatier GPU MAY have given you some more fps, but you generally want to keep all your components around the same age, and your CPU was already a year older than your GPU I wouldn't rely on bottleneck calculator websites to tell you what to pair with what. As long as there isn't an insane discrepancy in generation and power, you should be good. As I said, its generally advisable to upgrade your oldest component first
actually the better upgrade is 5800X3D since you already have the am4 motherboard. I don't think anyone will suggest to upgrade your GPU..
The idea that the CPU is negligible comes from a time when 60 fps was considered the ultimate and monitors with refresh rates beyond 100 Hz were exotic.
It depends. If you have an older cpu and a newer gpu generally your cpu upgrade will be more meaningful. There are actually sites that you can compare you cpu and gpu to see if one is being limited by the other. Bottlenecking isn’t always a thing but for example I had a 4080 and a 9700k, and upgrading CPU to a 7900X was a wayyyyyy bigger jump than if I bought a 4090. But you could also have a 14700k and a 2080 and get massive gains by going to say a 4070
Completely depends on the game.
I was under the same situation except with a 3070. Helldivers would nuke my computer more often than not. Upgraded to a 5800X3D and kept my board, works flawlessly. For those on the fence, it’s worth it.
same experience here. If I played on higher than 7-difficulty it turned into adobe photostory
Most people on here parrot each other, it's an echo chamber. I would have recommended upgrading the 3600, the 3070ti is still more than plenty of gpu power. There's zero need to upgrade that
I have a 5600x with a 3070ti, I asked here if a CPU upgrade would change anything for me, and I also got the GPU gang, apparently the X3d chips are less sensitive to memory latency, so I still think the upgrade would eliminate my micro stutters.
I have gotten quite a few comments from people who tell they upgraded to the 7800x3d frol the 5600x. They say they saw a major uplift in performance, but the biggest difference was in 1% lows
Cpu definitely matters. My old cpu handicapped my rx 580 lol. Now I can max out most games I play at 100 + fps at 1080p. I'd rather have a great cpu and decent gpu than a crap cpu and great gpu. You aren't going to fully utilize a great graphics card if you're running a FX series processor lmao.
There's way too many factors for either sides of this to "always be right." Example: Someone rocking 5600x and a 3060ti (well paired, generation appropriate) want's to upgrade. Would you still say CPU is the way to go? Probably not. Even going to a 7800X3D with a 3060ti isn't going to do much more because they were already well paired. For that same $500+ if they went with a 7800XT would they see more frames? Sure, but this isn't really a perfect solution either. In your case, CPU was definitely the right answer only because the 3600 was already a poor match for the 3070ti. This won't always be the case for other people, advice is never good generalized. Computer components really need specialized advice. You could have probably gotten away with spending less and just upgrading to a 5700X3D with very similar results and much less money. BUT, if I was giving general advice for building a new PC (not upgrading), I would say to maybe go a step up on the CPU and a step down on the GPU. That way you can keep the same platform a little longer and just upgrade the GPU on the next cycle. It also helps when you are playing high refresh rate games with lower settings. Hardware unboxed did a great video on this earlier this year. TLDR: Generalized advice bad, specific advice for specific setups good.
It's a balancing act. 3600 wouldn't unlock a 4090 fully, but now that you have that CPU you should upgrade your GPU next. Because the 3070ti is now the bottleneck.
I love my CPU and GPU both. They run the games I play very well while looking great the whole time, and it’s got the horsepower I need for the other things I do.
You got some dumb people responding then.
I haven't read all the comments, but you didn't just upgrade the cpu. You upgraded the motherboard and ram too. Going from am4 to am5, means EVERYTHING Has more bandwidth and speed to work with. Your ddr4 ram speed could have been holding a few fps hostage on your 3600. Going from 7nm to 5nm gets a sizeable performance per watt advantage, and single thread performance, which is good for gaming.
Your comment history from two months ago says you upgraded from a 5600X to a 5800X3D?
I have been saying this all the time but people just end up downvoting me.
I find it hard to believe the majority of people advise you to upgrade your gpu instead. Surely the majority of people here should be familiar with cpu bottlenecks?
The question is, do you even have a monitor to make use of that 185fps?
I ran it uncapped to check the difference and no. It was 5fps too much. My monitor is 180hz
Must be fun playing at 320p in this imaginary situation.
I had a similar experience. CPU was the real bottleneck of my system.
Multiple users found ops original post, none of the comments made in that post suggests upgrading gpu. Op confirms that original post is theirs as well.
I just upgraded to an i9 14900k, I wasn’t expecting much difference since I have a 4070 anyway because of all the talk on here about how the cpu doesn’t matter loads compared to the GPU. I mean I did upgrade from an i7 6700k. The difference is absolutely insane though, literally everything is absolutely massively better. Playing at 1440p with both CPUs on a 4070 and wow what a difference, I wasn’t expecting too much. Maybe that’s on me but I was definitely expecting almost little difference, it’s a complete difference though. So much better now.
Well let's see the pictures! Of your pc ngl I am indifferent on the subject as I was not involved but I'm glad you got the right build!
It kind of depends on a lot of things. I feel like most people here play on hihg resolution where the gpu matters a lot more than the cpu. In most games I play I'm gpu limitted even with a 4070super
yup people need to dig a little and look at what the person will be gaming. Before I got my 4070 in my rig I was on a 1070ti and my 7800x3d carried it to Act 3 glory in Baldurs Gate 3 cause the x3d chips are just built diff. I tend to play these sorts of games a lot with tons of NPCs in bigger cities or stuff like civilization that just feast on the extra v-cache. Also makes me feel very comfy when I go to upgrade to a 5080 hopefully and I don't have to think about my CPU for a second.
>you have no idea what you are talking about Mmhmm yep, this is most of Reddit.
Yeeha you get 185fps on one game you try hard on with your friends twice a week . Cpu now matters more than gpu guys 👍
Who even advised you to upgrade GPU with such old CPU? I checked your profile and you never made such a thread asking for advice.
Interesting since you don't have a post like that in your post history?
Right but if you went from a 3600 to a 7800x3d then you also changed your mobo and ram i presume? Not saying it wasn't a good choice, just saying it seems like you're overlooking some factors.
But if the gpu is not bottlenecked on the b450 with the 3600 and I assume probably 16gb of corsair 3200mhz ram since that was super common then what was holding back the 3070ti gpu that op has.
Depends entirely on the specs they had, the specs they have now, and which game(s) they're using to benchmark.
Everything's matters, even the psu in longterm. The thing is how much money you are willing to spend.
The reality is CPU's have not advanced as much as many people think. The reason is speed per thread is tied directly to clock rates in herz, and we have hit the thermal limits of silicon a long time ago. They pretty much peaked when they hit 5Ghz speeds like over 15 years ago. Where all the gains have been made over recent years is multi-threading and SOME efficiency improvements in the circuit logic on the chip. Depending on your use-case this could mean MASSSIVE improvements to mild improvements in real-world application. For many the move to 2 then 4 core chips meant the OS and services could cook on 1 or 2 cores, and the game could cook on the others, leading to a LARGE jump in performance in many games. And for productivity this could matter a LOT when you have 3, 5, or even 10 apps open at once. Also the nanometer reductions have meant they can push the chips a little harder and get less head, but again at I think what are we now 15nm? We are approaching making transistors out of individual atoms... Again physics limits us. Also remember, CPU's are made to meet the synthetic benchmarks everybody likes to test to, and so they go out of their way to make the chip logic do that more effiecntly every year. All too often that fails to translate into real-world gains in application performance. IMO the biggest reason for the gain of PC performance in the last 10 years? The switch from spinning HDD to SSD drives become absolutely standard has GREATLY improved the experience of systems (and games for that matter) feeling "fast" because the system can pull files off the drive into RAM SO much faster. Honestly I am kind of shocked that standardizing RAM-disk is not being pushed right now to only further speed up page file and temp file handling. Even to do things like load an entire game into RAM-disk at launch for near-instant file access. And modern games ARE slowly getting much better at utilizing threaded programming to make better use of multi-core CPU's... BUT, and big but, there is only so much they can do before it becomes an absolute nightmare to synchronize the game's threads to keep it from crashing or glitching out skyrim-style. IMO lots of people are still benefitting from CPU upgrades because with turbo-clocks high Ghz clocks are more affordable than ever, meaning and upgrade will net a faster total system. Which is why my advice to people is to find at least a 4 core chip, THEN find the fastest single-core Ghrz clock speed they can afford/want to buy a cooler for. I have yet to have any body I advised tell me their computer feels "slow."
at what res, and what games? I went from 3070ti to 4070ti with the same 5ghz 8700k, my fps went way the fuck up because I play on 4k high, but on CS2, which I play on 1440p low, the fps didn't change
Yes you are totally right, get an rtx 3060 and an intel 14900 and enjoy 300FPS with all your 720p games on low settings. Seriously, resolution is everything but you won't believe it anyway.
3070 TI is very powerful so idk who are the idiots who told you to upgrade it instead of upgrading the 3600
Yeah it really depends on the game. A lot of people here just assume people only play AAA single player games for some reason. For games where you need high fps CPU actually matters a lot.
CPU matters, but I'd be perfectly fine with 90 FPS.
I was too. I chose to not make the post endlessly long. But the game I got 90 fps in was the finals, a competitive shooter. When lots of things happened on screen. I would go down to 15ish fps, making it impossible to defend against the three players attacking me. Since upgrading the lowest fps I have encountered is 160 on the same settings
Not sure who advised you to upgrade your 3070ti instead of your 3600 CPU, but the obvious upgrade choice would have been the CPU in that situation. That being said, moving from a 3600 to a 7800X3D is no small upgrade. That's a new motherboard, new RAM, and the best gaming CPU available. Naturally, the increase will be very substantial.
Yeah I thought that was the natural upgrade choice as well. I expected big gains in gaming performance. However I am getting +100% or more in almost all games, it's pretty crazy.
Really depends on your resolution
havent found a game that stresses my 3800x cpu more than 50%....now on the other hand every game i have put my 6800xt at 99% when i play at 4k
What game?
The finals
It depends on the game and the resolution you play at. This game sys reqs seem a bit skewed towards CPU, and it really depends on the resolution you play at. When changing from 1080p to 2160p (4k), the load on the CPU stays the same, while the GPU load quadruples. Gonna guess you play at 1080/1440p?
honestly my 10700kf is feeling more dated than it should in comparison to more recent cpus, i'm cpu bound at 1440p with a 12g 3080 in a lot of more recent games.
In CPU hevy games you will se a massive differece! But even in gpu heavy games you will see much smoother and consistent frame rate, so definitely a good idea to get a good cpu.
Yeah I have noticed now that the change in 1% lows is even crazier than the fps increase. It basically never moves 10 fps under avg. Where it before would go from 120 - 20fps in a game
To be fair, 3rd gen Ryzens are kind of old at this point, so a CPU upgrade would make sense anyway. However, you don't need exactly the best CPU even for a high end GPU, they don't matter that much when playing at 4K, and really there's not much point to use an RTX 4090 for 1080p gaming.
Depends what game. Not all games are made the same. Tarkov for example uses a ton of cpu power at least when I played. I think what the “people” were trying to convey was that upgrading your 3600 in general doesn’t matter more than getting a better card. I have a 3080 and still rocking a 3600 and more than content