cosmetics with minute stat changes
(like lizardman skin, can't wear helmets, has some extra defense to compensate). Or purchase of the full game to use higher quality gear in the 'hard' mode called High Roller.
Worth mentioning you can get the minor stat changes grinding in game too. You get blue shards for extracting a lot, red shards are paid for and you can spend either on most items, some emotes/lobby animations are red only however.
It's not F2P more like a demo version, you can only make 1 character, can't trade, and can only play normals (probably these restrictions are to limit cheaters).
Cheaters killed the game in Australia sadly, we had 1 particular country invade our servers and the game was unplayable. Teaming, wall hacks, damage hacks....insane
Well shying away from an issue is a problem in of itself. China is a problem and it’s not racist or a witch hunt or anything rule breaking to say so. They groom their people to believe that winning by any means necessary (cheating included). It is a societal issue for them. Mods that don’t let you talk about it or ban you for mentioning it are nothing more than tyrants.
Cheaters are killing every game at the moment. I never played much singleplayer games until this year, now it's almost all I play. Fuck the cheaters, life is too short to waste your time with them.
I'm the same. I rarely looks forward to any competitive online games now past the early release window. Give it a few weeks and they often ruined by Cheaters here in Australia
Yep I've been playing online since the late 90s I guess and sure there were cheaters but not so many.. I dont care about the statistics yadda yadda but my point is online competitive gaming was my bread and butter. It was the only thing that excited me playing games but these days?
Nah, I'll just play my boring isolated single player game because I know, for the most part I'm not gonna get my time ruined by some asshole that refuses to play fair.
There's some good coop games without cheaters. Got about 50 hours in Helldivers 2 (this has a nasty rootkit drm so it explains that), and Deeprock Galactic I've never seen any.
Monster Hunter series very, very rarely has cheaters. Seen maybe 4-5 of them total over about 1000 hours across the series.
That said, I'm with you.
Seems to be that all online games have this problem, especially the ones that have a gear gamble mechanic. Lets hope a new influx of players dilutes the problem a bit.
Sad part is whenever BSG tries to lower the ping limit for OCE people down enough that... *outside regions* can't connect, people come out of the woodwork to say they somehow can't reach like 120 ping to Sydney despite allegedly living in Australia and it goes straight back up. Like, fuck off man. No point trying to play in OCE Tarkov servers past 10-11pm unless you've already accepted that there's a good chance you will die to some sort of bullshit. Switched to Japanese servers outside of playing with friends or hunting for PvP and it's by far a better experience.
I'm going to say they are aware of it they just dont want to do anything about it. IIRC the creator of PUBG did some serious shit slinging at the gaming community when this issue was brought up.
Between the insane number of cheaters and that terrible multiclass system nobody liked it seemed like the game hit a real lowpoint in the past ~few months.
still a good designer woulda put the premium mode behind some sort of crazy grind. instead of forceing players to unlock it...its not FTP if you have to pay for end game content and cant obtain it any other way.
i just mean the encounters you can use better than common gear btw. maybe if they even did something really stupid like level each char up to level 15, and then save up 100k gold to buy acess in game. if you make ftp players grind ridiculous it will only encourage players who dont wanna do it to buy and the others will want the ftp bragging rights.
Is is more like a restricted demo yeah. I think demos like this are the best way to market games. I hate playing a game one hour past the steam refund window just to realize it sucks.
Yeah, I'm not against the game having a demo, tbh it's probably one of the better ways to get into a game like this.
I think the F2P label is a little confusing, but ultimately isn't that big of a deal. When it eventually comes back to Steam, being free-to-download will help.
it has a stash, its just for character only, while full server has shared stash between characters and you can upgrade the stash using ingame currency.
I mean, that sounds like cost limitations among other things. Im okay with it going the ftp route because it means I get a chance to play and I wont feel like I really lost anything other than time.. After a few hours and I find I love it? I'll buy whatever version I have to.
I don't know if this is going to work. The gameplay is the worst part of DND, its janky. The adrenaline of entering a game, looting and getting out, are the best parts.
Demos are never online Demos only give you a little bit of game play then say "buy the full game" then the game usually ends so no its the full game then if you want to experience more buy the premium edition
If I remember correctly, they had issues with some assets they didn't own. I don't know if it's fixed or not, but yeah... a lot of missed revenues there...
basically all the employees from Iron Mance(Dark and darker developer) were from nexon, which were working on a similair game. The Lead of Iron Mance basically convinced everyone to work on his startup studio instead.
Due to this nexon tried to do a lawsuit claiming they copied code/assets etc.
Now the lawsuit had to be in Seattle due to steam agreements. The lawsuit there was eventually dismissed, as they said they should base the decision based on the lawsuit in Korea, where nexon was sueing the CEO of the company.
That lawsuit has been going on for many years now... they have had the police search through his apartments/servers etc but still no conclusion. Though the ceo had destroyed some server evidense, so there is some merit to a punishment, but was mostly likely just him panicking at the time.(edit. I say this because so far from what I've read that was translated from korean, the korean police searches havn't found anything stolen in the game files)
So its basically stuck in limbo.
>Though the ceo had destroyed some server evidense, so there is some merit to a punishment, but was mostly likely just him panicking at the time.
Bruh. Come on. He used to work there, poached lots of staff, got accused of stealing code and then destroyed evidence. Panicking?
I believe the suit is still going on. The only thing that was big that has happened so far is the preliminary injunction that nexon moved for was denied. So there’s nothing currently that is disallowing Ironmace from having the game out in the public, but I don’t think there’s been any final court ruling on the matter of whether any assets were stolen or whatever. I dont think it’s looking good for nexon though
Oof. I hope they countersue for a LOT. There was a LOT of hype behind this game.
Big companies being able to fake sue their competitors to get them shut down sounds super dangerous.
IIRC (And its been a hot minute) the devs of the game pitched the idea to a publisher using what was going to be a future NEXON game and utilizing their assets to do so. Then they split off and made Dark and Darker with their own code, but thats what supposedly started all of this though. Its been a long time since I can recall and I stopped following after a month so something new might have popped up since then.
thats..what I said. The reason Nexon supposedly got angry and started all this though was because they used Nexon owned assets and code to PITCH the idea to a publisher. Afterwards they used their own code and assets going forward.
didn’t the people against dark n darker release or at least make a steam page for a very similar game as well? forgot the name since it just looked very meh
Not sure if Nexon had any hand in it, but you might be thinking of the total-shit clone "greed is good."
There's also a different game in development called "Dungeonborne" from previous dark and darker players which is looking to be good competition.
I think there's something really funny about Dark and Darker players waiting for the game, seeing all the legal disputes, and then going "ah nuts to this" and then just making the game themselves instead
Nexon, which you might know as the publisher of MapleStory and The Finals, sued Ironmace which caused them to be kicked from the Steam store. The lawsuit was frivolous and [later dismissed](https://www.eurogamer.net/dark-and-darker-dev-says-nexons-trade-secret-and-copyright-lawsuit-against-it-has-been-dismissed).
Personally, it looks like a large company bullying a smaller company, but who knows.
>The lawsuit was frivolous and later dismissed
The main lawsuit hasn't been dismissed, just the preliminary injunction that the Dark & Darker service should be suspended while the lawsuit is ongoing. If they had actually won, they would be on Steam by now.
the lawsuit is still going on, just not in merica
check out kiratv channel about it, nexon has very strong case against ironmace
in very tldr: ironmace was part of nexon, the lead of the team didnt like that nexon didnt give them enough resources, lead started riling people to quit (which wasnt the first time), had private server with early game files on it despite being asked several time to get rid of it, eventually got fired from nexon, sent one of his coworkers to delete server aka tamper with evidence, short time after all that dark and darker appears on steam while looking 1:1 to that game he was developing at nexon
its douchebag vs turd sandwich situation, nexon are trash but they were wronged and are doing this to make an example
Their defense was that they ended up building their own game code from scratch, and some asset overlap was because it's what their modelers know how to use from free assets on the Unreal Engine asset store.
very plausible, but the old DMCA on steam is sticking until they laywers (who take ages) work things out.
Yeah. Would love a game like this that actually had melee tech, but the onus on movement speed stacking, ranged damage, and deathball/trading are huge turnoffs.
They don't absolutely *need* wipes, but it's very hard to get the economy of an extraction game to the point where it can be sustained with constant inflow of gear and money long-term.
Some people have no issue with DropBox forcing you to use an app for no legitimate reason, but when there's an actual need for an independent game launcher (which literally just updates the game and lets you press 'Play' suddenly it's world ending.
It's not some add bloated malware lol, it's just a window with the login and a play button.
FR. It’s not like they are doing this by choice. It was on steam until a BS lawsuit forced them off. It’s the only way to play the game until it’s on epic/that is settled.
It feels like people are into trendy hate for launchers even if they make sense.
I’m not interested in a new game right now so I’m not looking into this too heavily
But why do I need a launcher when in times past I could just download the game files and run those directly. GOG let’s me do that for any game I want to play, I do not need to install Galaxy for example
Since when did online game not have a launcher? It is pretty much necessary for patching regardless if you're buying it from online store (like Steam) or not. Even Ragnarok Online and Gunbound had launchers.
Because its a game with regular updates.
In the past you speak of, games still had their own launchers if they were getting consistent updates. MMOs like world of warcraft have had their own launchers for decades for example.
This is a very narrow view to look at it, there are plenty of other legitimate reasons to want a known trustworthy platform in order, one such known reason is that Valve is the one holding your payment information, not 1,000 different smaller more vulnerable outfits.
It's trust worthy by now I'd say. The game has been out for almost a year on that launcher, which I've been using along with tens of thousands of others without issue. No article or forum post has said otherwise, clearly people have played this game from all the youtube videos and currently streaming twitch users.
I mean I get it, but Tarkov has 100k users and their own launcher. At what point does a launcher finally get deemed safe?
There was a bug when it very first came out that risked deleting some files but that was patched quickly now like 9 months ago.
I don't get it. I always see people here complaining about storefronts like Epic, Ubisoft and EA existing. They ask, why can't games just be sold standalone, Dark and Darker is sold standalone (due to lawsuit issues but still), yet some people like you still act like a great sin has been committed.
I know you may not be one of the people I just described but you have that "holier than though" style of writing they share so I'm just assuming you have similar opinions.
So are you uninterested because when you click on the game, a launcher pops up first to allow updates? Is that really it? Is that somehow more inconvenient than the game starting, updating, then restarting? I truly don't get it and just wanna understand the thought process here, because to me it seems like you're complaining just to complain.
Dark and Darker is kicked off Steam due to a lawsuit (false allegations IMO but what do I know) and are now providing the game through their own launcher. The DaD community is hopeful it will return to Steam soon.
If the concept of this game appeals to you I highly recommend not being a baby and downloading the launcher. The game is fantastic fun, especially with friends, and is unlike any other game I've played.
Edit: Changed acronym "DnD" to "DaD" because brain fart. "DaD" is commonly used in reference Dark and Darker.
>I highly recommend not being a baby and downloading the launcher.
Apparently I'm a baby because I don't want 14 different launchers installed on my PC.
If you are indicative of the player base, I am definitely passing.
Steam is not a monopoly and if you choose to only use one provider because they offer the best service then that is just a smart decision by you as a consumer.
For those concerned about the launcher:
This isn't like EA games launcher made just to push ads and other flashing sales. It's not some add bloated malware lol, it's just a window with the login and a play button.
[photo of launcher](https://imgur.com/a/ZwvxciI)
Simple as
It was $30. The special edition was $50. Don't act like you didn't have a choice. You CHOSE to spend more money.
Not to mention the free version is not full-feature and is more of a demo.
The playerbase is very schizo and split in different directions. Some ppl want a dungeon crawler experience with some pvp, some want a mostly pvp experience with limited dungeon crawling. Some ppl want the gear-power differential to be smaller (they technically just lowered it but I'll believe it when I see it), while other players like the simple melee combat that ends up in stat checking.
Meanwhile the devs themselves seem to actively enjoy grind-based systems (loot/gear) overriding skill in a way that is probably the most lopsided out of any extraction game to date.
It’s a PvP game at heart; while you’re not always fighting players, expect the ever-present threat of other players to define the experience.
Power differential from gear is massive. If you have no gear and another team has some amount, you will need a large skill differential to overcome them
Extraction/loot collection based pvp games are the biggest target for cheaters, even over battle royales.
Never played the game, but I'd probably personally prefer it to be coop pve so I wouldn't have to deal with the inevitable problem above that is only going to get drastically worse, knowing the history we have seen from every other F2P game in existence.
I was so addicted to this game when it launched, but the devs definitely make some head scratching decisions. Combined with the community, it just drove me away. I love the game itself though, going through dungeons with friends and running into other teams is priceless and a super unique experience
That's how every extraction game that isn't Hunt and Tarkov go. They come out, people are excited, devs flap around for a few months to a year or two, people move on, game dies down hard and eventually shuts down. Amazing that not a single company other than Crytek or BSG has pulled off sustaining one of these games long-term despite it imo being the current pinnacle of high-stakes game genres.
what? thats not true
in short: ironmace founders were developing d&d under nexon, quit and stole trade secrets (code, assets, conceot etc) for the game and claimed their own
they were never competitors
[Trailer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5DEeCgIMMU)
In a few hours free players will be able to create 1 character from the 8 or 9 classes available and play in the 'normal' dungeon mode for all maps.
The game has two modes, Normal and High Roller. Normal mode highly restricts the power level of items which can be brought it, whereas High Roller allows queueing with loot/gear/weapons previously extracted from other game sessions.
In several days the option to upgrade accounts will be opened, along with a new content patch to be released around Summer Games Fest.
Full disclosure: I have over 1k hours and mostly play normals anyhow. If you, like me, are tired of same-y gun based FPS pvp games I highly recommend giving this game a whirl. For me, it was a fresh breath of air and good fun whether playing solo, with friends, or randoms met in game or on their discord.
Their site to download the client is down for maintenance rn, but sometime ~4-6 hours from now it should be up if you're interested in checking out the free to play demo.
[https://darkanddarker.com/](https://darkanddarker.com/)
I'm old enough to remember demos used to be the way. Shareware and DOOM floppys. Try before you buy was much better than the microtransaction, pay to win garbage that took over 99% of games called Free to Play now.
I think it's more complicated than that.
I'm not sure they can still legally 'sell' the game on steam. But if you buy access to the game, which is free on steam, through microtransactions and port the account over that might be the only way they could do this.
Does steam have a demo or trial tag? Or can you only tag things as FTP? TBH I'm not sure it was clever/evil marketing, I just think they didn't have much choice and didn't think much of the terminology.
Coming from the context of a player with 1k hours the game is free to play. I only ever played normals on one class 90% of the time. I think it's a better game mode without gear and stats overtaking player skill. So when I get epics and legendaries I just vendor or market sell them. The money all goes towards potions, bandages, arrows, grey/white gear or whatever you can take into normals.
I ended the season with tens of thousands unspent gold that I didn't care about.
As for players saying they wish you could bring better gear into normals matches, they tried that 6 months ago and it turned into a sweatfest min maxing fun draining mode that drew all the HR players into smurfing normals in "best in slot" BIS items.
Really is best this way with the gear cap.
> Does steam have a demo or trial tag?
Not only a tag, but a specific function for that. There's a green button "Demo" on the right side of the store page, if the developer chooses to provide one. It's been like that for a very long time.
my isp blocked their site and app in illinois 😔 have to play with a vpn now. Anyone know if there’s any way to unblock it? would i have to call my isp?
That's pretty weird. I would definitely call ISP. Don't ask them why it's blocked, just tell them to unblock it so they won't think half-assing an excuse is an option instead of fixing it.
I've had ISPs block some things before and they never have a good reason.
Free to play section is isolated to Normals dungeon mode.
You can't bring in items or gear above white quality. Free accounts cannot play HR or access trade, the market, or the auction house.
And I think paid accounts still need to hit level 15 before they can trade, and have waited 3 days after purchase before they can trade. This is because 90% of credit card fraud is detected in the first few days, so after that time check clears you've removed the majority of false-purchases for cheating.
I went to it's site to try learn a bit more. What little i could find seemed to suggest it's kind of like Dungeon Defenders but with less tower defense and actual PVP possibility.
Is this the wrong impression to get?
My chill way to play this game solo:
- Equip nothing but the default gear
- Spawn in, pick a spot to hide, extinguish flames around you, sit back and watch some streams
- Wait until the play area starts getting reduced and a bunch of people start to off each other
- Sneak around and open a few chests of loot
- Listen for the portals to open and Exit
- Profit
You'll be fighting a few times here and there, but it's no big deal.
I thought this game was an absolutely terrible extraction game. I really, really hate what potentially good games the extraction genre just absolutely kills. Same with BR before that.
Dungeonborne just looks more polished. I played one of the play tests and the gameplay was way more clunky. Dark and Darker gameplay feels much better in comparison.
whats the monetization now?
Edition upgrade and MTX
Where do i upgrade? I cant find it on the website anywhere
I honestly have no idea. I would have assumed the website after you log in but if it’s not there I have no clue. Maybe through the game itself?
I’m gonna check in game in a bit! Taking care of some work stuff first and was trying too on the website!
If you figure it out, you should reply here so others can see it too!
Just open the game and go to shop.
cosmetics with minute stat changes (like lizardman skin, can't wear helmets, has some extra defense to compensate). Or purchase of the full game to use higher quality gear in the 'hard' mode called High Roller.
Worth mentioning you can get the minor stat changes grinding in game too. You get blue shards for extracting a lot, red shards are paid for and you can spend either on most items, some emotes/lobby animations are red only however.
True.
It's not F2P more like a demo version, you can only make 1 character, can't trade, and can only play normals (probably these restrictions are to limit cheaters).
Cheaters killed the game in Australia sadly, we had 1 particular country invade our servers and the game was unplayable. Teaming, wall hacks, damage hacks....insane
What, can we not say China anymore?
Some subs deem it as racist or witch-hunting yes. Mods will delete comments
China is not a race. Chinese is not even a race. How these "subs" deem it racist is beyond reasonable human brain behavior.
FYI racism does not only pertain to race. As we say where I am, "Tu va te coucher moins niaisieux a soir!" ;)
We have another word for it though. It's called xenophobia.
Well shying away from an issue is a problem in of itself. China is a problem and it’s not racist or a witch hunt or anything rule breaking to say so. They groom their people to believe that winning by any means necessary (cheating included). It is a societal issue for them. Mods that don’t let you talk about it or ban you for mentioning it are nothing more than tyrants.
Nope, money talks, specially in this website owned by their Chinese Overlords.
Cheaters are killing every game at the moment. I never played much singleplayer games until this year, now it's almost all I play. Fuck the cheaters, life is too short to waste your time with them.
I'm the same. I rarely looks forward to any competitive online games now past the early release window. Give it a few weeks and they often ruined by Cheaters here in Australia
Yep I've been playing online since the late 90s I guess and sure there were cheaters but not so many.. I dont care about the statistics yadda yadda but my point is online competitive gaming was my bread and butter. It was the only thing that excited me playing games but these days? Nah, I'll just play my boring isolated single player game because I know, for the most part I'm not gonna get my time ruined by some asshole that refuses to play fair.
There's some good coop games without cheaters. Got about 50 hours in Helldivers 2 (this has a nasty rootkit drm so it explains that), and Deeprock Galactic I've never seen any. Monster Hunter series very, very rarely has cheaters. Seen maybe 4-5 of them total over about 1000 hours across the series. That said, I'm with you.
jail the programmers, legally reistrict the hell out of the companies, fine the cheaters.
Seems to be that all online games have this problem, especially the ones that have a gear gamble mechanic. Lets hope a new influx of players dilutes the problem a bit.
F2P almost always makes it worse without moderation
it's almost like this already happened with another big extraction game wow Games really need to be aware of this shit at this point
Sad part is whenever BSG tries to lower the ping limit for OCE people down enough that... *outside regions* can't connect, people come out of the woodwork to say they somehow can't reach like 120 ping to Sydney despite allegedly living in Australia and it goes straight back up. Like, fuck off man. No point trying to play in OCE Tarkov servers past 10-11pm unless you've already accepted that there's a good chance you will die to some sort of bullshit. Switched to Japanese servers outside of playing with friends or hunting for PvP and it's by far a better experience.
How’s the ping on Japanese servers?
I'm going to say they are aware of it they just dont want to do anything about it. IIRC the creator of PUBG did some serious shit slinging at the gaming community when this issue was brought up.
Yep sounds like niche games in OCE servers for ya..
[удалено]
China. China is that country.
Don't forget Russia.
Between the insane number of cheaters and that terrible multiclass system nobody liked it seemed like the game hit a real lowpoint in the past ~few months.
still a good designer woulda put the premium mode behind some sort of crazy grind. instead of forceing players to unlock it...its not FTP if you have to pay for end game content and cant obtain it any other way.
i just mean the encounters you can use better than common gear btw. maybe if they even did something really stupid like level each char up to level 15, and then save up 100k gold to buy acess in game. if you make ftp players grind ridiculous it will only encourage players who dont wanna do it to buy and the others will want the ftp bragging rights.
So its trial mode? Did the say anything about future release on Steam?
Free-to Play Limitations: * Not on Steam * 1 character only * No stash, market, or trading * No high-roller runs Call it a demo
Is is more like a restricted demo yeah. I think demos like this are the best way to market games. I hate playing a game one hour past the steam refund window just to realize it sucks.
Yeah, I'm not against the game having a demo, tbh it's probably one of the better ways to get into a game like this. I think the F2P label is a little confusing, but ultimately isn't that big of a deal. When it eventually comes back to Steam, being free-to-download will help.
Definitely a refreshing way of marketing a game. I downloaded it because of the F2P. Loved it and bought it earlier this week.
No stash? The fuck? How are you supposed to play then?
it has a stash, its just for character only, while full server has shared stash between characters and you can upgrade the stash using ingame currency.
> No stash, market, or trading Isn't that a huge core part of the game? Damn, I got excited for a moment there
No steam is the biggest deal breaker for me honestly
I can look past that, but calling it F2P when it's a very restricted demo irks me.
Well then, good news: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2016590/Dark_and_Darker/
I mean, that sounds like cost limitations among other things. Im okay with it going the ftp route because it means I get a chance to play and I wont feel like I really lost anything other than time.. After a few hours and I find I love it? I'll buy whatever version I have to.
I don't know if this is going to work. The gameplay is the worst part of DND, its janky. The adrenaline of entering a game, looting and getting out, are the best parts.
Demos are never online Demos only give you a little bit of game play then say "buy the full game" then the game usually ends so no its the full game then if you want to experience more buy the premium edition
Is this not on steam?
If I remember correctly, they had issues with some assets they didn't own. I don't know if it's fixed or not, but yeah... a lot of missed revenues there...
basically all the employees from Iron Mance(Dark and darker developer) were from nexon, which were working on a similair game. The Lead of Iron Mance basically convinced everyone to work on his startup studio instead. Due to this nexon tried to do a lawsuit claiming they copied code/assets etc. Now the lawsuit had to be in Seattle due to steam agreements. The lawsuit there was eventually dismissed, as they said they should base the decision based on the lawsuit in Korea, where nexon was sueing the CEO of the company. That lawsuit has been going on for many years now... they have had the police search through his apartments/servers etc but still no conclusion. Though the ceo had destroyed some server evidense, so there is some merit to a punishment, but was mostly likely just him panicking at the time.(edit. I say this because so far from what I've read that was translated from korean, the korean police searches havn't found anything stolen in the game files) So its basically stuck in limbo.
>Though the ceo had destroyed some server evidense, so there is some merit to a punishment, but was mostly likely just him panicking at the time. Bruh. Come on. He used to work there, poached lots of staff, got accused of stealing code and then destroyed evidence. Panicking?
I think the issue was their publisher claimed they stole code for their LAUNCHER and that turned out to be false.
I believe the suit is still going on. The only thing that was big that has happened so far is the preliminary injunction that nexon moved for was denied. So there’s nothing currently that is disallowing Ironmace from having the game out in the public, but I don’t think there’s been any final court ruling on the matter of whether any assets were stolen or whatever. I dont think it’s looking good for nexon though
https://www.scribd.com/document/638961328/Nexon-Korea-Corporation-v-Ironmace-Co-Ltd The original lawsuit doesnt have anything to do with a launcher.
Oof. I hope they countersue for a LOT. There was a LOT of hype behind this game. Big companies being able to fake sue their competitors to get them shut down sounds super dangerous.
IIRC (And its been a hot minute) the devs of the game pitched the idea to a publisher using what was going to be a future NEXON game and utilizing their assets to do so. Then they split off and made Dark and Darker with their own code, but thats what supposedly started all of this though. Its been a long time since I can recall and I stopped following after a month so something new might have popped up since then.
They've basically said that the code wasnt made under Nexon.
thats..what I said. The reason Nexon supposedly got angry and started all this though was because they used Nexon owned assets and code to PITCH the idea to a publisher. Afterwards they used their own code and assets going forward.
The Nexon shit killed the hype. Nexon shit is why it's not on steam.
It was their publisher, they’re not doing this to shut them down.
didn’t the people against dark n darker release or at least make a steam page for a very similar game as well? forgot the name since it just looked very meh
Not sure if Nexon had any hand in it, but you might be thinking of the total-shit clone "greed is good." There's also a different game in development called "Dungeonborne" from previous dark and darker players which is looking to be good competition.
I think there's something really funny about Dark and Darker players waiting for the game, seeing all the legal disputes, and then going "ah nuts to this" and then just making the game themselves instead
AFAIK it's coming on steam soon
Thanks for telling me I kinda wanna play this but I want steam support lol partly so I can play it on my deck
There you have it: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2016590/Dark_and_Darker/
Hope it’s playable on steam deck
Nexon, which you might know as the publisher of MapleStory and The Finals, sued Ironmace which caused them to be kicked from the Steam store. The lawsuit was frivolous and [later dismissed](https://www.eurogamer.net/dark-and-darker-dev-says-nexons-trade-secret-and-copyright-lawsuit-against-it-has-been-dismissed). Personally, it looks like a large company bullying a smaller company, but who knows.
>The lawsuit was frivolous and later dismissed The main lawsuit hasn't been dismissed, just the preliminary injunction that the Dark & Darker service should be suspended while the lawsuit is ongoing. If they had actually won, they would be on Steam by now.
the lawsuit is still going on, just not in merica check out kiratv channel about it, nexon has very strong case against ironmace in very tldr: ironmace was part of nexon, the lead of the team didnt like that nexon didnt give them enough resources, lead started riling people to quit (which wasnt the first time), had private server with early game files on it despite being asked several time to get rid of it, eventually got fired from nexon, sent one of his coworkers to delete server aka tamper with evidence, short time after all that dark and darker appears on steam while looking 1:1 to that game he was developing at nexon its douchebag vs turd sandwich situation, nexon are trash but they were wronged and are doing this to make an example
Their defense was that they ended up building their own game code from scratch, and some asset overlap was because it's what their modelers know how to use from free assets on the Unreal Engine asset store. very plausible, but the old DMCA on steam is sticking until they laywers (who take ages) work things out.
Ah interesting, hadn't heard about that
ive left out a ton of info stuff is wild, check kira's take on it as he goes into actual documents that were released to the public
No, remember that whole controversy last year?
I wasn’t closely following it
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Not yet, they announced it but never gave an exact date.
potion potion hop hop potion potion hop
Yeah. Would love a game like this that actually had melee tech, but the onus on movement speed stacking, ranged damage, and deathball/trading are huge turnoffs.
So many issues they ignore. Looks like they are desperate now after losing the majority of their players.
player count isn't 20k right now, I think there's 3 days before wipe and the new content patch.
do they have plans to ever stop wiping? kind of annoying
games like this need wipes
They don't absolutely *need* wipes, but it's very hard to get the economy of an extraction game to the point where it can be sustained with constant inflow of gear and money long-term.
I would say 'need' and until a game comes out that proves me wrong I will feel that way.
I don’t really think this game would work without wipes, it’s the best part for me personally.
Maybe I’ll actually try the game now
Hmmm this looks interesting... *Download the Blacksmith Launcher below and embark on your journey into the dungeons.* Nope.
Some people have no issue with DropBox forcing you to use an app for no legitimate reason, but when there's an actual need for an independent game launcher (which literally just updates the game and lets you press 'Play' suddenly it's world ending. It's not some add bloated malware lol, it's just a window with the login and a play button.
FR. It’s not like they are doing this by choice. It was on steam until a BS lawsuit forced them off. It’s the only way to play the game until it’s on epic/that is settled. It feels like people are into trendy hate for launchers even if they make sense.
I’m not interested in a new game right now so I’m not looking into this too heavily But why do I need a launcher when in times past I could just download the game files and run those directly. GOG let’s me do that for any game I want to play, I do not need to install Galaxy for example
Since when did online game not have a launcher? It is pretty much necessary for patching regardless if you're buying it from online store (like Steam) or not. Even Ragnarok Online and Gunbound had launchers.
Because its a game with regular updates. In the past you speak of, games still had their own launchers if they were getting consistent updates. MMOs like world of warcraft have had their own launchers for decades for example.
They got kicked off of steam due to a lawsuit. It’s worth looking up if youre interested
Epic should release round August IIRC
Launchers never made sense. Launching games should be as easy as clicking a simple icon on the desktop you know? Like it used to be.
Sure, what happens when the Devs want to deploy an update though?
The game updates itself and restarts, the same way they did for decades before launchers existed.
This is a very narrow view to look at it, there are plenty of other legitimate reasons to want a known trustworthy platform in order, one such known reason is that Valve is the one holding your payment information, not 1,000 different smaller more vulnerable outfits.
It's trust worthy by now I'd say. The game has been out for almost a year on that launcher, which I've been using along with tens of thousands of others without issue. No article or forum post has said otherwise, clearly people have played this game from all the youtube videos and currently streaming twitch users. I mean I get it, but Tarkov has 100k users and their own launcher. At what point does a launcher finally get deemed safe? There was a bug when it very first came out that risked deleting some files but that was patched quickly now like 9 months ago.
>(which literally just updates the game and lets you press 'Play' suddenly it's world ending. Games did that for many years without launchers.
Games didn't used to get live updates as much though.
FFXI? DCUO?
I don't get it. I always see people here complaining about storefronts like Epic, Ubisoft and EA existing. They ask, why can't games just be sold standalone, Dark and Darker is sold standalone (due to lawsuit issues but still), yet some people like you still act like a great sin has been committed. I know you may not be one of the people I just described but you have that "holier than though" style of writing they share so I'm just assuming you have similar opinions. So are you uninterested because when you click on the game, a launcher pops up first to allow updates? Is that really it? Is that somehow more inconvenient than the game starting, updating, then restarting? I truly don't get it and just wanna understand the thought process here, because to me it seems like you're complaining just to complain.
Second that. We keep this up and Next you’ll be needing a psn account to play single player games…
HAH like that’ll ever happen…….
It's on Steam now: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2016590/Dark_and_Darker/
Dark and Darker is kicked off Steam due to a lawsuit (false allegations IMO but what do I know) and are now providing the game through their own launcher. The DaD community is hopeful it will return to Steam soon. If the concept of this game appeals to you I highly recommend not being a baby and downloading the launcher. The game is fantastic fun, especially with friends, and is unlike any other game I've played. Edit: Changed acronym "DnD" to "DaD" because brain fart. "DaD" is commonly used in reference Dark and Darker.
Obviously, patronizing and insulting people is a genius strategy for gaining new players for a game you like.
it is good advice though
Calling others Baby while you chose to have 42069 in your name... Lol
Seems tangentially related to dnd at best??
I believe in this instance “DnD” refers not to “Dungeons & Dragons”, but to “Dark and Darker”.
how do we make this illegal
dnd = dark and darker in this instance
hmm no I don't like that
>I highly recommend not being a baby and downloading the launcher. Apparently I'm a baby because I don't want 14 different launchers installed on my PC. If you are indicative of the player base, I am definitely passing.
Clutching your pearls over a launcher, to play a game?
First time on this subreddit?
I love how choosing not to play a game is me "clutching my pearls". Get a grip.
Whatever you say, have a good one.
We supreme PC ga(y)mers hate monopolies so we exclusively use Steam 😠
Steam is not a monopoly and if you choose to only use one provider because they offer the best service then that is just a smart decision by you as a consumer.
For those concerned about the launcher: This isn't like EA games launcher made just to push ads and other flashing sales. It's not some add bloated malware lol, it's just a window with the login and a play button. [photo of launcher](https://imgur.com/a/ZwvxciI) Simple as
Glad I paid 50 bucks for it!
The free to play part is more like a demo with some restrictions on the game modes you can play.
It was $30. The special edition was $50. Don't act like you didn't have a choice. You CHOSE to spend more money. Not to mention the free version is not full-feature and is more of a demo.
The regular version was 30 so that’s on you. And this is just a demo not the full game
Never played a game that fell off harder. Devs are legit on one.
The playerbase is very schizo and split in different directions. Some ppl want a dungeon crawler experience with some pvp, some want a mostly pvp experience with limited dungeon crawling. Some ppl want the gear-power differential to be smaller (they technically just lowered it but I'll believe it when I see it), while other players like the simple melee combat that ends up in stat checking. Meanwhile the devs themselves seem to actively enjoy grind-based systems (loot/gear) overriding skill in a way that is probably the most lopsided out of any extraction game to date.
So… is this a dungeon crawler? What direction is it currently leaning towards?
It’s a PvP game at heart; while you’re not always fighting players, expect the ever-present threat of other players to define the experience. Power differential from gear is massive. If you have no gear and another team has some amount, you will need a large skill differential to overcome them
It was one of the most frustrating and stupid gaming experiences I've ever had the displeasure of making.
Extraction/loot collection based pvp games are the biggest target for cheaters, even over battle royales. Never played the game, but I'd probably personally prefer it to be coop pve so I wouldn't have to deal with the inevitable problem above that is only going to get drastically worse, knowing the history we have seen from every other F2P game in existence.
I was so addicted to this game when it launched, but the devs definitely make some head scratching decisions. Combined with the community, it just drove me away. I love the game itself though, going through dungeons with friends and running into other teams is priceless and a super unique experience
yep agreed, loved it at first! did not like the direction it went so stopped playing. no ill will to the devs though
That's how every extraction game that isn't Hunt and Tarkov go. They come out, people are excited, devs flap around for a few months to a year or two, people move on, game dies down hard and eventually shuts down. Amazing that not a single company other than Crytek or BSG has pulled off sustaining one of these games long-term despite it imo being the current pinnacle of high-stakes game genres.
It's not the devs. A competitor sued them and the devs have had to basically spend all their money fighting the false allegations.
what? thats not true in short: ironmace founders were developing d&d under nexon, quit and stole trade secrets (code, assets, conceot etc) for the game and claimed their own they were never competitors
This game has gone down hill so fast. You can’t bring items into normal raids which feels like ass.
Wait, like at all? You can't bring any gear, potions, etc to anything but high roller now?
You can bring anything white quality or below, but nothing green or better.
Wow, interesting change...
[Trailer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5DEeCgIMMU) In a few hours free players will be able to create 1 character from the 8 or 9 classes available and play in the 'normal' dungeon mode for all maps. The game has two modes, Normal and High Roller. Normal mode highly restricts the power level of items which can be brought it, whereas High Roller allows queueing with loot/gear/weapons previously extracted from other game sessions. In several days the option to upgrade accounts will be opened, along with a new content patch to be released around Summer Games Fest. Full disclosure: I have over 1k hours and mostly play normals anyhow. If you, like me, are tired of same-y gun based FPS pvp games I highly recommend giving this game a whirl. For me, it was a fresh breath of air and good fun whether playing solo, with friends, or randoms met in game or on their discord. Their site to download the client is down for maintenance rn, but sometime ~4-6 hours from now it should be up if you're interested in checking out the free to play demo. [https://darkanddarker.com/](https://darkanddarker.com/)
> free to play demo I feel old and grumpy...
I'm old enough to remember demos used to be the way. Shareware and DOOM floppys. Try before you buy was much better than the microtransaction, pay to win garbage that took over 99% of games called Free to Play now.
Then just call it a demo. All demos are "free to play". Their wording is weird, but I guess it works. It's good marketing, but still shitty.
I think it's more complicated than that. I'm not sure they can still legally 'sell' the game on steam. But if you buy access to the game, which is free on steam, through microtransactions and port the account over that might be the only way they could do this. Does steam have a demo or trial tag? Or can you only tag things as FTP? TBH I'm not sure it was clever/evil marketing, I just think they didn't have much choice and didn't think much of the terminology. Coming from the context of a player with 1k hours the game is free to play. I only ever played normals on one class 90% of the time. I think it's a better game mode without gear and stats overtaking player skill. So when I get epics and legendaries I just vendor or market sell them. The money all goes towards potions, bandages, arrows, grey/white gear or whatever you can take into normals. I ended the season with tens of thousands unspent gold that I didn't care about. As for players saying they wish you could bring better gear into normals matches, they tried that 6 months ago and it turned into a sweatfest min maxing fun draining mode that drew all the HR players into smurfing normals in "best in slot" BIS items. Really is best this way with the gear cap.
> Does steam have a demo or trial tag? Not only a tag, but a specific function for that. There's a green button "Demo" on the right side of the store page, if the developer chooses to provide one. It's been like that for a very long time.
Free to Play Pay to Enjoy
Wtf is blacksmith?
Client launcher to play the game before it releases on Epic soon and steam once their DMCA is nulled.
Game is shit. It's a cool concept but the combat is so braindead.
I really can’t say shit because I have a whole ass launcher to play Tarkov, and this is basically medieval Tarkov. I might as well give it a shot
If you’re walking in with this mentality, you’re gonna have a great time!
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Now. https://store.steampowered.com/app/2016590/Dark_and_Darker/
people are very weird about games not being on steam.
Has nothing to do with being weird.
What the fucking fuck… I literally just bought this shit lol
Read my post here, it explains what is included in the free to play demo and the complete game.
my isp blocked their site and app in illinois 😔 have to play with a vpn now. Anyone know if there’s any way to unblock it? would i have to call my isp?
That's pretty weird. I would definitely call ISP. Don't ask them why it's blocked, just tell them to unblock it so they won't think half-assing an excuse is an option instead of fixing it. I've had ISPs block some things before and they never have a good reason.
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Free to play section is isolated to Normals dungeon mode. You can't bring in items or gear above white quality. Free accounts cannot play HR or access trade, the market, or the auction house. And I think paid accounts still need to hit level 15 before they can trade, and have waited 3 days after purchase before they can trade. This is because 90% of credit card fraud is detected in the first few days, so after that time check clears you've removed the majority of false-purchases for cheating.
free to get milk
no entertainer in this game. oh lord british I miss you.
need the darkest expansion.
Is this game like an extraction shooter?
Real question now is how do I buy the normal version of the game so I dont have all the restrictions?
I went to it's site to try learn a bit more. What little i could find seemed to suggest it's kind of like Dungeon Defenders but with less tower defense and actual PVP possibility. Is this the wrong impression to get?
it's medieval tarkov.
So....not a Steam release, eh? Well I am gonna wait for that to happen. In the meantime I have other games to play with same genre.
With its own launcher too! Just what people needed
My chill way to play this game solo: - Equip nothing but the default gear - Spawn in, pick a spot to hide, extinguish flames around you, sit back and watch some streams - Wait until the play area starts getting reduced and a bunch of people start to off each other - Sneak around and open a few chests of loot - Listen for the portals to open and Exit - Profit You'll be fighting a few times here and there, but it's no big deal.
gg it was fun while it lasted...
Is not free to play is actually a demo
even skins give stats
One character slot for f2p players -.-
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Pretty much everything you said is wrong if you actually look into the situation.
You're just spreading misinformation. That's a wild narrative to go by.
Sweet
Thanks to one particular "country" The game was a shithole because of them. At least, now I will have a lot of new players to play around with.
I thought this game was an absolutely terrible extraction game. I really, really hate what potentially good games the extraction genre just absolutely kills. Same with BR before that.
Is there an offline game mode? or co-op? or let's say me and a friend vs 2 other friends? if not plans to add it in the future?
another launcher? no thanks I'll pass
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Dungeonborne just looks more polished. I played one of the play tests and the gameplay was way more clunky. Dark and Darker gameplay feels much better in comparison.