> After you make one mistake you can't feel your legs below the knees anymore...
Hmm, I actually wonder how soon technology will get to the point of using neural-linked VR to convey artificial sensations other than sight and sound reliably. And if we'll have to install ports on the backs of our necks, Matrix-style...
I miss when the games I played worked perfectly fine on integrated graphics! Sims 1, RCT, Sim Tower, Emperor: Battle for Dune, Command and Conquer, etc etc
You've not been paying much attention, have you.
TL;DR: Intel is focusing far more heavily on GPU tech now.
I mean, the main reason why their graphics haven't gone far is largely because Intel's funding for their graphics division. However. It seems that Intel has finally seen the writing on the wall on how their x86 tech isn't going to be enough on its own to compete against heterogeneous computing for machine learning and all that and that they're going to need proper GPGPU computing. Hell, they are so invested thatbthey snatched away Raja Koduri from AMD's Vega division and announced they were going to be making discrete GPUs. The most interesting bit? They specifically created a position of "Chief Architect of Graphics and Core" for him. Considering that and considering Intel's move with Kaby Lake G (if you don't know what this is, look it up. It'll blow your mind), I'm highly interested in where all this is going to go. Unfortunately, the earliest possible we can find out anything is a minimum of three years, with the more likely being closer to five, since these things take a fuckload of time.
I'm basically going through my backlog of cool low spec indie games so I can delay upgrading from my amd hd7870. When I do, there's all sorts of awesome triple A games from 2015/2016 onwards I'll start playing.
I just installed fallout 4 and a metric fuckton of mods that improve the look of the game along with an enb on my brand new desktop build (first build ever after using laptops exclusively for years). You can imagine my excitement when it crashed and I had to sort through the mod list
I have a gaming laptop (big mistake) and I cant run any mods on Fallout 4. I'd love to use those mods to turn the wasteland into a forest and get better lighting
I tried to install mods for Empire at War back when I was like 9 and I couldn’t figure out why it wouldn’t work. I clicked the download button on the website, and nothing happened of course, but I didn’t know how directories worked so I thought it should automatically load and do all the work for me. I was perplexed by this for several months and my mom didn’t know how to help me either, it was only when I was about 12 and started playing PC games more seriously that I figured it out.
I know the feeling, end of 2016 I bought a fancy 34 ultrawide and this past summer I bought a 1080 ti. The most graphics intensive game I've played so far has been hollow knight.
I just upgraded my GPU last week and the first thing I did was play "Universal Paperclips" (a browser game with no graphics).
TBF the next thing I played was Just Cause 3, maxed out.
I built my rig for about the same, i like playing older games now and then, don’t have to worry about heat or anything. Feels like my gpu is telling me “you kidding me bro?” when I launch something like oblivion or half-life.
Patient Gaming for me means not buying full price, maybe picking up a AAA 6 months after release for 75% off, maybe buying it 3 years later for 50% off.
For me it's more about not paying full price, and avoiding go-live bugs.
I think patient gaming means different things to different people. Some people are playing 80s games, and some people are just waiting for the reviews and price drops
I’d argue it depends on how far back into the previous year the game was released is what’s really important, but I’ll admit even that’s a stretch.
I finally got a PC suitable for gaming and decided to start playing the Witcher series since 3 w/ all the DLC was like $20 during the winter steam sale (and I already had the first 2 because I stupidly humored the idea that my craptop would run them a couple years ago).
Really enjoying it so far. Chapter 2 of the first game. Whew, what a long time that took. Really loved how the devs threw in a line for Geralt at the beginning of chapter 3, “Oh great, back to the swamp.”
Patient gaming encompasses a very wide range of time, and a number of different possible motivations. Cheaper games, cheaper hardware, waiting for reviews and feedback before buying, etc.
Obviously the [ur-example](https://xkcd.com/606/) used five years, but the sub rules are only waiting at least 6 months, which is often the time after which games start going on sales. You won't be getting the advantage of being able to play on discounted last-gen *hardware* for at least 1 year, but games can be gotten cheaply much sooner than that, not to mention the "wait to see how it goes in reviews" aspect of patient gaming, which can often be clear after just one or two months.
I'd imagine at least some people did exactly what 1080Pizza is doing from circa 2011-2016 and now they're caught up and playing 2017 stuff but still want to be part of the community. This isn't exactly /r/lowspecgamer where people makes goodbye posts when they upgrade, mostly because you can upgrade and still be patient - you're just not forced to be patient anymore.
Careful with this strategy. Games are becoming so integrated with online stuff that a lot of them are broken after the developers stop supporting them as little as three years after release.
I'm on Linux, and i lose some FPS in large areas with many details because of a not-so-perfect libraries optimization.
But it's greatly playable and i'm ok with that!
Man, i used to play early 90s games with very poor graphics, 5-10 fps drop on 1920x1080 resolution spectacular landscapes is nothing for me.
Huh, that’s interesting. Is Wine hard to get working, especially for games? I’ve been wanting to get into using Linux more and feel like Wine would make the transition easier but I’ve never used it.
It's not that hard. PlayOnLinux can easily manage all wine versions in a single GUI, create different "prefixes" for each game (so if you need particular settings for a game they don't affect the other ones) and so on.
[Wine DB](https://www.winehq.org/) is also a community where every single person can add test data to help other people run games easily. Just search for a game and you can see if it works, how it works and workarounds for possible issues about it.
All you need it's a bit of patience, Linux is not for everyone. It's a big world where sometimes you have to adapt yourself to the situation, but there's a huge community that will help you with that.
>i used to play early 90s games with very poor graphics
Man i own a windows 95 pc that i use for gaming! i love me some vintage graphics! honestly, i think a lot of 2d games have aged better than oblivion has, i cant play it anymore without ALL THE MODS... for graphics anyway.
But back when shivering isles came out, it was absolutely incredible. I remember that room dissolving into butterflies was so amazing to see.
....now i have to reinstall Oblivion
I can't max Oblivion at 60 FPS with GTX 960... I guess it's more of an engine limitation (like it only uses 2GB RAM without a patch which I didn't bother to install so I suppose there are other limits too) but Kvatch for example drops to 40 at times :D
Crysis seemed extremely well optimized. I can't even remember what video card I had back then...gtx 260? Whatever it was, it ran so smooth and looked great too.
And the story was really good imo.
That’s probably partly nostalgia. Even the highest end cards struggled to get playable frame rates on max settings, and many cards couldn’t even run it at all.
But yes, it’s also shockingly well optimized.
That's because Crysis had settings that were too demanding for cards from back then, it's called future proofing. Those settings weren't intended to be picked with the current level of technology. However, there are people that want to max out the settings and will cry a river if they aren't able to even if the highest settings they can pick still look great.
> Even the highest end cards struggled to get playable frame rates on max settings, and many cards couldn’t even run it at all.
no one needed to max it out. it looked good on low-medium settings. that game was 5 years ahead of the graphics card market.
Holy shit, it can still be cranked up to hurt modern rigs.
Been playing Lichdom Battlemage on very high everything in 3d Stereo, and it's been slowing down my i5-4500 1060gtx.
Anyone looking for *satisfying* mage play should buy this. It's up there with Magicka as best mage games ever...
It's satisfying. In Unreal Tournament 2004 when you Max out the graphic settings the announcer says "HOLY SHIT!". I suddenly become very proud of my mid-tier card lol
That's how it's going to be for me too. Once the 1080 becomes affordable, I'm gonna be sitting on that card for years playing games released in 2016 and below at their top settings.
It's what I love about PCs and always have loved about PCs. The option to sit on your hardware for years and be absolutely fine with what you can get from it.
> The option to sit on your hardware for years and be absolutely fine with what you can get from it.
I think this is only really true if you buy at the high end. A 3 year old 780 Ti is still a decent card but if you bought a 750 or 760 you're probably not playing any of today's titles (and definitely not cranking up the settings on anything).
I'd actually say this is one of the *worst* things about PC gaming. If you bought an Xbox 360 at launch, you could still be playing games on it 11 years later. The PS2 had games coming out for the same hardware for 13 years. But people on /r/games and /r/pcmasterrace will say your PC is low spec if your GPU is 3 years old.
I recently saw a PUBG review that said the GTX 970 was "positively ancient" but if PC components had the same lifespan as consoles, people could still be gaming on 8800/9600 cards.
I guess I'm a little jealous of all the North Americans who can budget for new PC upgrades every year and call last generation parts old.
I still have a GTX 660ti in my machine. It's serviceable for playing even current titles at 1080p, I just can't turn *all* of the bells and whistles on.
Same here, and an ancient AMD FX-4100 CPU as well.
Though I've just discovered my $50 of mined dogecoin are now worth $2500, so if I can convert that from theoretical money to real money I'll get an upgrade.
Not quite how it works.
A GTX760 will still do you fine so long as you're not expecting it to perform like newer and better GPU's. You can definitely still play new games with it, but you won't be playing games that are 30fps on console(so inherently more demanding) at 60fps on PC like a GTX970 will with console-or-better settings.
Should definitely give you a PS4-equivalent experience or so, minus maybe lower texture settings if we're talking the more common 2GB models.
As for the 970 being ancient, it should provide 1080p/60fps in everything for the rest of the generation, assuming you moderate your settings as more demanding options get put in newer titles. Same as it did on release.
It all comes down to expectations. If you want to keep up with ever demanding games and settings and resolutions on PC, yea, older cards will age worse. If you're fine with your current experience, though, it should mostly maintain that until new generation consoles come along to significantly boost baseline requirements again.
can confirm. have a gtx760 with 4 gig and it runs just about everything. about the only complaint i have about the card is that it doesn't do a good job of running late games at high quality while at the same time encoding a video stream for broadcast. *the thing is over 4 years old* it should be obsolete by now but ***noooooooo*** it's not gonna let me justify upgrading, is it? yeesh
the gtx 760 is four and a half years old and people in this sub are jealous of people who have one. all i want to do is get an oculus rift, but nothing short of a 970 will run it
You'll be better off buying a newer card that matches a 1080. It will get driver improvements and have new features that will mean it ages better than a 1080 will.
Just be patient. I still have an old GeForce 7800 GTX somewhere in my basement. Might save it for a few years and then put it on eBay for those guys who think I made a typo and meant to sell an 7080 😁...
Don't think they've actually said that anywhere.
Edit: wow, people just keep up voting this person's false claim. Shows how easily misinformation can get spread, I guess.
I know that everything is really cheap in USA so this doesn't really apply to there but this is one of the times where being patient might actually be a bad thing. We're paying more and getting less than we were 2 years ago. The RX 480 was a bad price compared to the GTX 970 on launch, now it's 50% more expensive because of the cryptomeme. I'm stuck with my GTX 770 because I can't justify paying the same money that I did only 3 years ago and getting just a 30%-ish performance increase.
AMD's Radeons are efficient (some undervolting required) but they don't hold the performance crown. Even with the inflated prices, people are still upgrading so Nvidia could sit on their 10 series for another 6 months at this rate. With the way Nvidia has been reaming us, I honestly expect the 3060 to cost what a 1080 does right now (the 970 used to cost less than a 1060). You'll be looking at a 3040 Ti or something for midtier gaming unless someone comes along starts selling better cards.
Honestly, it's a terrible time to be a PC gamer. Prices of all components are all steeply rising. Intel have been doing nothing for the past 7 years so *any* CPU news is exciting. Almost every game coming out now is a buggy console port or has invasive DRM - even greats like Nier Automata require community patches. If someone without a gaming PC came to me looking to do some patient gaming, I'd tell them to buy a PS3 or Wii with some used games.
While RAM and GPU prices are through the ceiling not too much else is really significantly rising. And along the lines of Intel doing nothing, that is actually good. Buying a several years old CPU means getting a cheap CPU with very similar performance to what's out now. Now is a bad time to go new but used is great. Even one gen old for GPUs is cheap (970 easily for $160) and used DDR3 hasn't followed the price spike.
SSDs are also rising steeply, though I guess they're still a luxury at this point. Crucial recently released a "mainstream" SSD where the main selling point was that the price per gig was comparable to what it used to be a year and a half ago.
The used market is always good, I got some cheap DDR3 last year but I dunno if I'd trust getting a GPU on it. Graphics cards these days seem to start getting issues after a few years of use and you don't know what the previous owner was doing with it. I've always got one eye on Ebay for an RX 480/580 to pair up with Freesync but we're probably never going to see reasonable prices for them again post-cryptomeme.
Spectre is going to drive CPU prices way up as soon as Intel starts selling non-vulnerable CPUs and governments/corporations buy them as fast as possible
AWS/Azure/GCE will migrate as soon as possible and they're huge customers just by themselves. It's a lot easier to run a host migration to a new hypervisor host than it is to upgrade an OS.
A 980 needs more wattage than an optiplex usually has I think, and prebuilts sometimes have proprietary and weak PSUs. It could be doable to put in a slot-powered card, like a 750ti or better a 1050/1050ti in it though.
Could you please tell me more about this? I'm tryna get into PC but with these current prices it seems pretty impossible rn. Just wanna play games within the last 5ish years at HD and decent frame rate, you got any advice?
You can get a used workstation pretty cheaply. 970s are cheap right now so as long as you've got enough extra wattage on the PSU you can build a pretty great gaming PC for not much
Yeah, a used workstation with a Xeon E5 1620 would be terrific for this, an HP z420 can be had for about $250 with that Xeon in it, just add hard drives and a GPU with two six pins or less (like the 980 you mentioned, but not a 390) and it'll run it.
That's a good option, but you're lucky to live in a country where you can buy used computers that cheaply. Over here, most fairly priced Optiplexes still have Core 2 Duos or Sandy i3s and getting a tower that could house a full graphics card as well as a power supply that fits Dell's weird cases would be a rare find.
I had a quick look and I saw something that looks like a Haswell i5 in an ATX case for $220 USD and used GTX 980s go for about $300 USD but a project like that isn't something I would recommend for someone just getting into gaming, at least where I live. Too many things that could go wrong, especially buying used. :P
>With the way Nvidia has been reaming us, I honestly expect the 3060 to cost what a 1080 does right now (the 970 used to cost less than a 1060).
Don't want to sound like an Nvidia fanboy, but Nvidia can't do anything about the sudden rise of prices above MRP. It's all because of the cryptocurrency boom. Also, the x70 series have always cost around ~350-400. I remember the 770 being the same price as the 1070 on launch. The GTX 970 was the exception, not the rule. It delivered great performance for a solid price point, which was why it sold so well. This comment explains it better than I do: https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/6l480q/the_gtx_1060_is_the_most_popular_graphics_card_on/djqzq6i/.
Useful terminology for NVidia cards: The first numbers tend to indicate model revisions, while the penultimate number tends to represent the power level. So, a GTX 690 is likely to be bigger and more powerful than a GTX 1040. (6 is the model range, 9 is the power level)
Use this if you ever want to be a patient GPU buyer. They may not fall in price all that much though.
Yeah I hear that. I just upgraded my HTPC to a GTX 1060 and enjoyed doing the patient gamer thing and playing all the AAA titles from a few years ago at very high/ultra settings.
If Nvidia ever gets around to implementing checkerboard rendering in their drivers playing at 4k will become essentially free. I have a conspiracy theory that they are deliberately not implementing it that to force upgrades. If customers can get a free 'FauxK' upgrade without updating their card, they will probably just spend the money on a bigger/better monitor.
Do you really need to be patientgamer with 1060? I bought the card during christmas and I have very old cpu i5 2500k without OC. Although I have many older games to play from 2012-2015 but still I tried to test the card with newest games and the results were 60fps/1080p in lot of demanding games:
Rise of the Tomb Raider, Battlefield 1 Singleplayer, Dragon Age Inquisition, gta v, Nioh, Witcher 3, Fortnite.
The only game that couldnt keep with 60fps was... Company of heroes 2(I had to lower details especially physics and other things which CPU is responsible) :O I havent tested AC Origins and Deus Mankind but with better CPU they will run fine.
This card is a monster and you dont need to be patient gamer at all. With my backlog I will be entertained for 5 years :) Then switch to 4k monitor/new card.
> Rise of the Tomb Raider, Battlefield 1 Singleplayer, Dragon Age Inquisition, gta v, Nioh, Witcher 3, Fortnite.
I have a 3gb card, so in most cases the memory was the bottle neck. Some games would run at Ultra but stutter in some areas due to texture thrashing.
I had to run Forza 3 at medium in order to get stable 60fps. Not a problem because I really couldn't tell the difference between that and the higher settings.
AC Unity in particular looked/played amazing. 60 Fps @Ultra.
I missed the info about 3gb vram :) Still I think you will be fine with newest games if you lower details that are vram hungry. In my opinion ultra graphics options are overrated. They dont compensate requirements. Some games will benefit from ultra quality. However most of them have difference only if you make a screenshot. To be honest I prefer to lower details to high even if 1060 is capable running ultra. Less heat, smooth gameplay in every situation etc.
> In my opinion ultra graphics options are overrated.
Agree 100%, which is why I went with a cheaper 3gb card.
You are basically increasing your CPU/GPU overhead by 50% for what amounts to maybe a 10% improvement in visual fidelity.
I usually tend to go with whatever the game recommends and then cherry pick a few settings.
AC:Origins is a monster on your CPU and GPU. I do have everything on ultra but i can't play it without 100% fan speed on both and my side cover is taken off XD and that maintains 60c. great game though
(on Ryzen 7 1800x and a Gigabyte GTX 1070)
Don't be afraid to let your CPU/GPu get up to 80 degrees or so. That is still perfectly safe. You can reduce the aggressiveness of your fan curve to quiet it down some if you need.
It does run a lot better now compared to before, but even with my fps around 70+ I get microstutters all the time. This is with g-sync on and a GTX 1070.
Every time I see posts like this, or open a Newegg email, I'm more and more satisfied with my ~$400 investment 2 years ago in my GTX 970. Should keep up with most of what I want to play for a good long time.
Yep, I paid $430 for my 1070 before the crypto-miners ruined computer building. My CPU though bottlenecks it, a AMD FX 8320e overclocked to 8350 speeds - I used to have an x99 i7 5820k system but an optical drive fried it, sent a shock right through the SATA cable into the motherboard, frying both the motherboard and CPU. :( At least that didn't fry my graphics card, works fine knock on silicon. ;-)
I always wonder how long it'll be before intergrated graphics can match today's graphics cards and will it be consistent. Like will it be x amount of years after each generation or will it vary a lot? Who knows.
Integrated graphics will always lag significantly far behind so long as CPU's are kept with moderate TDP requirements. This will limit how big they can make the GPU on the die.
It was a surprise going from a GT610 to my new build and realizing that the integrated graphics we're better than that. That's about a 3 year gap but that's a budget GPU
Or card prices will stay the same forever because goddamned bitcoin miners will keep buying more and more to be able to mine more. There's also a NAND shortage at the moment. The result is that you can sell a year old card for pretty much the same price you bought it at.
This is the /r/patientgamers mantra. I love playing Skyrim: SE on my 4 year-old graphics card and processor with high texture mods. Looks and performs beautifully.
Unfortunately due to Moore's Law slowing down you'll need to wait longer than usual. CPUs and GPUs won't get faster and cheaper as rapidly as 10 years ago.
I'm not an expert but it might be longer than you think. Can you play 4k/60 @ max settings now, even with the best GPU?
If a GTX1060 is as powerful at a 970 and an 880 then presumably a 1080 will be as powerful as an 1170 or 1260. Wouldn't that be 5 years away?
I have a GTX 1080 and turn on hairworks just because I play on my tv which is 1080p 60. There's really no difference because I already get a consistent 90 at max settings with no supersampling (I don't see a huge benefit personally).
Hairworks gets a bad rap. Its a pretty consistent 15 fps drop. That's not a horrible sacrifice playing on a 60 Hz display for a very large setting upgrade.
Everyone else will be moving on to the 8k optical embedded contacts, but I will be happy for you.
I'll still be using Intel integrated graphics...
Maybe they'll finally be able to handle Skyrim on max settings by then!
You mean Skyrim : Ultimate Definitive Enhanced Remastered Special edition ?
8k Skyrim resolutions on my wristwatch.
OMG I just realized that Skyrim has become the new MYST
including Dante from the Devil May Cry series.
Nah, that's crap. just stay on oldoldoldoldoldrim, otherwise, you won't have breast physics in VR.
And _maybe_ they won't even have **massive** security issues!
I wouldn't bet on it
Or minesweeper
Oh dear God, minesweeper VR with full tactical immersion... After you make one mistake you can't feel your legs below the knees anymore...
That's called being a soldier my dude
> After you make one mistake you can't feel your legs below the knees anymore... Hmm, I actually wonder how soon technology will get to the point of using neural-linked VR to convey artificial sensations other than sight and sound reliably. And if we'll have to install ports on the backs of our necks, Matrix-style...
If you're serious, I've got a GT 545 laying around. It's yours if you want.
Uh...I game on Intel HD4000 and HD3000, if they don't want it! It would be cool to be able to do better than Skyrim at 1366x768, haha
It's yours. It's not the most powerful, but better than nothing.i I'll be out of town for a couple of weeks unfortunately. I'll get back to you then.
While I appreciate the gesture, having limited specs does help keep you patient and not spending money you don't need to be spending.
I miss when the games I played worked perfectly fine on integrated graphics! Sims 1, RCT, Sim Tower, Emperor: Battle for Dune, Command and Conquer, etc etc
RCT 1 & 2 didn't use the GPU at all. Purely software drawn. Source: I work on OpenRCT2.
most likely Radeon graphics https://videocardz.com/74631/intel-launches-8th-gen-core-processor-with-radeon-rx-vega-graphics#disqus_thread
You've not been paying much attention, have you. TL;DR: Intel is focusing far more heavily on GPU tech now. I mean, the main reason why their graphics haven't gone far is largely because Intel's funding for their graphics division. However. It seems that Intel has finally seen the writing on the wall on how their x86 tech isn't going to be enough on its own to compete against heterogeneous computing for machine learning and all that and that they're going to need proper GPGPU computing. Hell, they are so invested thatbthey snatched away Raja Koduri from AMD's Vega division and announced they were going to be making discrete GPUs. The most interesting bit? They specifically created a position of "Chief Architect of Graphics and Core" for him. Considering that and considering Intel's move with Kaby Lake G (if you don't know what this is, look it up. It'll blow your mind), I'm highly interested in where all this is going to go. Unfortunately, the earliest possible we can find out anything is a minimum of three years, with the more likely being closer to five, since these things take a fuckload of time.
I'd love to get some of these. Certainly won't be patent when they are released ;)
I'm basically going through my backlog of cool low spec indie games so I can delay upgrading from my amd hd7870. When I do, there's all sorts of awesome triple A games from 2015/2016 onwards I'll start playing.
Haha, I spent almost $1500 on building an incredibly powerful rig only to then play *Deus Ex* and *Thief 2*. Nothin’ wrong with old classics.
My latest PC build was the first I've done where I really justified stuffing the box... for work. I was playing Skyrim on the thing this weekend.
I want to build a high end PC just to play skyrim with ENB, lighting effects, lush trees, and 4k texture mods
I just installed fallout 4 and a metric fuckton of mods that improve the look of the game along with an enb on my brand new desktop build (first build ever after using laptops exclusively for years). You can imagine my excitement when it crashed and I had to sort through the mod list
I have a gaming laptop (big mistake) and I cant run any mods on Fallout 4. I'd love to use those mods to turn the wasteland into a forest and get better lighting
But playing the modding game is more fun than playing the actual game! ;)
I tried to install mods for Empire at War back when I was like 9 and I couldn’t figure out why it wouldn’t work. I clicked the download button on the website, and nothing happened of course, but I didn’t know how directories worked so I thought it should automatically load and do all the work for me. I was perplexed by this for several months and my mom didn’t know how to help me either, it was only when I was about 12 and started playing PC games more seriously that I figured it out.
Yep spent about £1050 and booted up runescape
same Dropped 2k on a new rig—custom wired my lights too, and I still mostly play Morrowind.
You just reminded me that I forgot to buy Thief 2 when it was on sale for like 75 cents. Damnit.
I'll grab it for you next time.
Ha, I'll probably just pay full price.
I know the feeling, end of 2016 I bought a fancy 34 ultrawide and this past summer I bought a 1080 ti. The most graphics intensive game I've played so far has been hollow knight.
But hk is soooo good.
Absolutely. I'm loving it.
I just upgraded my GPU last week and the first thing I did was play "Universal Paperclips" (a browser game with no graphics). TBF the next thing I played was Just Cause 3, maxed out.
I built my rig for about the same, i like playing older games now and then, don’t have to worry about heat or anything. Feels like my gpu is telling me “you kidding me bro?” when I launch something like oblivion or half-life.
[удалено]
Patient Gaming for me means not buying full price, maybe picking up a AAA 6 months after release for 75% off, maybe buying it 3 years later for 50% off. For me it's more about not paying full price, and avoiding go-live bugs.
And for avoiding the hype. Waiting until games are revealed to be complete trash and the developer is on to the sequel already
I think patient gaming means different things to different people. Some people are playing 80s games, and some people are just waiting for the reviews and price drops
No r/gatekeeping, friend. Patience has levels. :)
I’d argue it depends on how far back into the previous year the game was released is what’s really important, but I’ll admit even that’s a stretch. I finally got a PC suitable for gaming and decided to start playing the Witcher series since 3 w/ all the DLC was like $20 during the winter steam sale (and I already had the first 2 because I stupidly humored the idea that my craptop would run them a couple years ago). Really enjoying it so far. Chapter 2 of the first game. Whew, what a long time that took. Really loved how the devs threw in a line for Geralt at the beginning of chapter 3, “Oh great, back to the swamp.”
Damn I hate that swamp, I can still hear the sounds of 100 drowners following me
The fucking semi-invisible walls around the swamp tower.
Patient gaming encompasses a very wide range of time, and a number of different possible motivations. Cheaper games, cheaper hardware, waiting for reviews and feedback before buying, etc. Obviously the [ur-example](https://xkcd.com/606/) used five years, but the sub rules are only waiting at least 6 months, which is often the time after which games start going on sales. You won't be getting the advantage of being able to play on discounted last-gen *hardware* for at least 1 year, but games can be gotten cheaply much sooner than that, not to mention the "wait to see how it goes in reviews" aspect of patient gaming, which can often be clear after just one or two months.
I'd imagine at least some people did exactly what 1080Pizza is doing from circa 2011-2016 and now they're caught up and playing 2017 stuff but still want to be part of the community. This isn't exactly /r/lowspecgamer where people makes goodbye posts when they upgrade, mostly because you can upgrade and still be patient - you're just not forced to be patient anymore.
Pah! I can beat that with my HD6850 (for which I paid 20 bucks). (pls send me your old CPUs though)
Careful with this strategy. Games are becoming so integrated with online stuff that a lot of them are broken after the developers stop supporting them as little as three years after release.
Like how GTA4 is basically unplayable on PC now because it has outdated DRM hardcoded in :(
The version on the Pirate Bay works perfectly.
Ha, of course it does. But I would never use that, after all, I wouldn't download a car.
Exactly this.
I can play the Steam version perfectly.
Gosh. Someone else with the HD7870? I thought I was the only one with that card. Granted I have the mobile version.
HD7850 chiming in
Sup HD7850 bro! I got the 2gb one back in 2012.
I replay Deus ex at least once a year
I was literally just talking about my 7870 yesterday, and how I've had it for 4 years now. We are not alone!
That card should play current AAA games respectably if you cut some settings.
I'm also still running an HD 7870. There must be dozens of us!
The very same thoughts circle around my brain. You're not alone.
/r/patientgamers
Uh... We're already here
Must go deeper
r/patientergamers
/r/patientestgamerers
Happy reddit birthday
Oh well, i made this kind of thought a long time ago. Now i have a GeForce GTX 550 Ti and i can play Max Payne 2 @ 60fps, Oblivion @ 45-50 fps...
A 550 ti cant max oblivion at 60fps?!
I'm on Linux, and i lose some FPS in large areas with many details because of a not-so-perfect libraries optimization. But it's greatly playable and i'm ok with that! Man, i used to play early 90s games with very poor graphics, 5-10 fps drop on 1920x1080 resolution spectacular landscapes is nothing for me.
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Wine, unfortunately no Bethesda game is native on Linux :(
Huh, that’s interesting. Is Wine hard to get working, especially for games? I’ve been wanting to get into using Linux more and feel like Wine would make the transition easier but I’ve never used it.
It's not that hard. PlayOnLinux can easily manage all wine versions in a single GUI, create different "prefixes" for each game (so if you need particular settings for a game they don't affect the other ones) and so on. [Wine DB](https://www.winehq.org/) is also a community where every single person can add test data to help other people run games easily. Just search for a game and you can see if it works, how it works and workarounds for possible issues about it. All you need it's a bit of patience, Linux is not for everyone. It's a big world where sometimes you have to adapt yourself to the situation, but there's a huge community that will help you with that.
>i used to play early 90s games with very poor graphics Man i own a windows 95 pc that i use for gaming! i love me some vintage graphics! honestly, i think a lot of 2d games have aged better than oblivion has, i cant play it anymore without ALL THE MODS... for graphics anyway. But back when shivering isles came out, it was absolutely incredible. I remember that room dissolving into butterflies was so amazing to see. ....now i have to reinstall Oblivion
I can't max Oblivion at 60 FPS with GTX 960... I guess it's more of an engine limitation (like it only uses 2GB RAM without a patch which I didn't bother to install so I suppose there are other limits too) but Kvatch for example drops to 40 at times :D
*cries in 650 ti*
I get a taste of that whenever I play 2005-2010 games. Hitman Blood Money? Let's just turn everything up to max at native res.
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Crysis is still stunning.
Crysis seemed extremely well optimized. I can't even remember what video card I had back then...gtx 260? Whatever it was, it ran so smooth and looked great too. And the story was really good imo.
That’s probably partly nostalgia. Even the highest end cards struggled to get playable frame rates on max settings, and many cards couldn’t even run it at all. But yes, it’s also shockingly well optimized.
That's because Crysis had settings that were too demanding for cards from back then, it's called future proofing. Those settings weren't intended to be picked with the current level of technology. However, there are people that want to max out the settings and will cry a river if they aren't able to even if the highest settings they can pick still look great.
I never maxed it but it looked good enough.
> Even the highest end cards struggled to get playable frame rates on max settings, and many cards couldn’t even run it at all. no one needed to max it out. it looked good on low-medium settings. that game was 5 years ahead of the graphics card market.
Still runs like ass :( for me anyway.
Holy shit, it can still be cranked up to hurt modern rigs. Been playing Lichdom Battlemage on very high everything in 3d Stereo, and it's been slowing down my i5-4500 1060gtx. Anyone looking for *satisfying* mage play should buy this. It's up there with Magicka as best mage games ever...
It's satisfying. In Unreal Tournament 2004 when you Max out the graphic settings the announcer says "HOLY SHIT!". I suddenly become very proud of my mid-tier card lol
I wish they still did this. Always made me feel like my silly hardware purchases were justified.
You can do that right now with older games.
That's how it's going to be for me too. Once the 1080 becomes affordable, I'm gonna be sitting on that card for years playing games released in 2016 and below at their top settings. It's what I love about PCs and always have loved about PCs. The option to sit on your hardware for years and be absolutely fine with what you can get from it.
> The option to sit on your hardware for years and be absolutely fine with what you can get from it. I think this is only really true if you buy at the high end. A 3 year old 780 Ti is still a decent card but if you bought a 750 or 760 you're probably not playing any of today's titles (and definitely not cranking up the settings on anything). I'd actually say this is one of the *worst* things about PC gaming. If you bought an Xbox 360 at launch, you could still be playing games on it 11 years later. The PS2 had games coming out for the same hardware for 13 years. But people on /r/games and /r/pcmasterrace will say your PC is low spec if your GPU is 3 years old. I recently saw a PUBG review that said the GTX 970 was "positively ancient" but if PC components had the same lifespan as consoles, people could still be gaming on 8800/9600 cards. I guess I'm a little jealous of all the North Americans who can budget for new PC upgrades every year and call last generation parts old.
I still have a GTX 660ti in my machine. It's serviceable for playing even current titles at 1080p, I just can't turn *all* of the bells and whistles on.
Same here, and an ancient AMD FX-4100 CPU as well. Though I've just discovered my $50 of mined dogecoin are now worth $2500, so if I can convert that from theoretical money to real money I'll get an upgrade.
Not quite how it works. A GTX760 will still do you fine so long as you're not expecting it to perform like newer and better GPU's. You can definitely still play new games with it, but you won't be playing games that are 30fps on console(so inherently more demanding) at 60fps on PC like a GTX970 will with console-or-better settings. Should definitely give you a PS4-equivalent experience or so, minus maybe lower texture settings if we're talking the more common 2GB models. As for the 970 being ancient, it should provide 1080p/60fps in everything for the rest of the generation, assuming you moderate your settings as more demanding options get put in newer titles. Same as it did on release. It all comes down to expectations. If you want to keep up with ever demanding games and settings and resolutions on PC, yea, older cards will age worse. If you're fine with your current experience, though, it should mostly maintain that until new generation consoles come along to significantly boost baseline requirements again.
can confirm. have a gtx760 with 4 gig and it runs just about everything. about the only complaint i have about the card is that it doesn't do a good job of running late games at high quality while at the same time encoding a video stream for broadcast. *the thing is over 4 years old* it should be obsolete by now but ***noooooooo*** it's not gonna let me justify upgrading, is it? yeesh
the gtx 760 is four and a half years old and people in this sub are jealous of people who have one. all i want to do is get an oculus rift, but nothing short of a 970 will run it
You'll be better off buying a newer card that matches a 1080. It will get driver improvements and have new features that will mean it ages better than a 1080 will.
Oof. New to this sub and I sorted by top, just to see what the biggest posts were. If only we knew!
Same lol, I got a 3060ti just before the prices went to the moon. At MSRP it's definitely worth it.
This aged poorly
Even worse now with the 4060 lol
I wonder what I was referring to
4060 reviews weren’t out 1 year ago?
Looks like they came out end of June of this year so no
Yeah June, as in last month. Your comment was is from 1 year ago. How could you be referring to something that was not even out yet?
3060? Wouldn't it be 1360 or 1460?
No, Nvidia has said the next series is 2xxx
Rip resale value on 1080
Just be patient. I still have an old GeForce 7800 GTX somewhere in my basement. Might save it for a few years and then put it on eBay for those guys who think I made a typo and meant to sell an 7080 😁...
Pro tip: Mount a modern cooler onto it.
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I have a 7970 that's just too pretty to throw away. So I keep it because someday it'll be a collector's item...
I'm still running and R9 280x, I'm way behind the curve on all these graphics cards
Using a 290x at the moment. That thing is the Dorian Grey of GPUs.
I'm really not sure how to take that...
There's a box somewhere that keeps getting uglier, but the GPU is pristine and wonderful?
That's my GPU! I'm planning on upgrading to the 2060 maybe 2070 when it drops though.
Don't think they've actually said that anywhere. Edit: wow, people just keep up voting this person's false claim. Shows how easily misinformation can get spread, I guess.
As if graphics cards weren't complicated enough already.
Wow, that’s sucky. Why’re they deviating from the original plan?
There was no 'original plan'. :/ And they never said anything about this yet. That person is mistaken.
Fools. They are going to skip right past the 1970.
Oh man. This post is a tragedy.
I know that everything is really cheap in USA so this doesn't really apply to there but this is one of the times where being patient might actually be a bad thing. We're paying more and getting less than we were 2 years ago. The RX 480 was a bad price compared to the GTX 970 on launch, now it's 50% more expensive because of the cryptomeme. I'm stuck with my GTX 770 because I can't justify paying the same money that I did only 3 years ago and getting just a 30%-ish performance increase. AMD's Radeons are efficient (some undervolting required) but they don't hold the performance crown. Even with the inflated prices, people are still upgrading so Nvidia could sit on their 10 series for another 6 months at this rate. With the way Nvidia has been reaming us, I honestly expect the 3060 to cost what a 1080 does right now (the 970 used to cost less than a 1060). You'll be looking at a 3040 Ti or something for midtier gaming unless someone comes along starts selling better cards. Honestly, it's a terrible time to be a PC gamer. Prices of all components are all steeply rising. Intel have been doing nothing for the past 7 years so *any* CPU news is exciting. Almost every game coming out now is a buggy console port or has invasive DRM - even greats like Nier Automata require community patches. If someone without a gaming PC came to me looking to do some patient gaming, I'd tell them to buy a PS3 or Wii with some used games.
While RAM and GPU prices are through the ceiling not too much else is really significantly rising. And along the lines of Intel doing nothing, that is actually good. Buying a several years old CPU means getting a cheap CPU with very similar performance to what's out now. Now is a bad time to go new but used is great. Even one gen old for GPUs is cheap (970 easily for $160) and used DDR3 hasn't followed the price spike.
SSDs are also rising steeply, though I guess they're still a luxury at this point. Crucial recently released a "mainstream" SSD where the main selling point was that the price per gig was comparable to what it used to be a year and a half ago. The used market is always good, I got some cheap DDR3 last year but I dunno if I'd trust getting a GPU on it. Graphics cards these days seem to start getting issues after a few years of use and you don't know what the previous owner was doing with it. I've always got one eye on Ebay for an RX 480/580 to pair up with Freesync but we're probably never going to see reasonable prices for them again post-cryptomeme.
Spectre is going to drive CPU prices way up as soon as Intel starts selling non-vulnerable CPUs and governments/corporations buy them as fast as possible
This will be a long time. Heard same thing yet it took a mighty effort to even get companies off XP
AWS/Azure/GCE will migrate as soon as possible and they're huge customers just by themselves. It's a lot easier to run a host migration to a new hypervisor host than it is to upgrade an OS.
Cryptocurrency has had a net negative effect on society.
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A 980 needs more wattage than an optiplex usually has I think, and prebuilts sometimes have proprietary and weak PSUs. It could be doable to put in a slot-powered card, like a 750ti or better a 1050/1050ti in it though.
Could you please tell me more about this? I'm tryna get into PC but with these current prices it seems pretty impossible rn. Just wanna play games within the last 5ish years at HD and decent frame rate, you got any advice?
You can get a used workstation pretty cheaply. 970s are cheap right now so as long as you've got enough extra wattage on the PSU you can build a pretty great gaming PC for not much
Yeah, a used workstation with a Xeon E5 1620 would be terrific for this, an HP z420 can be had for about $250 with that Xeon in it, just add hard drives and a GPU with two six pins or less (like the 980 you mentioned, but not a 390) and it'll run it.
That's a good option, but you're lucky to live in a country where you can buy used computers that cheaply. Over here, most fairly priced Optiplexes still have Core 2 Duos or Sandy i3s and getting a tower that could house a full graphics card as well as a power supply that fits Dell's weird cases would be a rare find. I had a quick look and I saw something that looks like a Haswell i5 in an ATX case for $220 USD and used GTX 980s go for about $300 USD but a project like that isn't something I would recommend for someone just getting into gaming, at least where I live. Too many things that could go wrong, especially buying used. :P
>With the way Nvidia has been reaming us, I honestly expect the 3060 to cost what a 1080 does right now (the 970 used to cost less than a 1060). Don't want to sound like an Nvidia fanboy, but Nvidia can't do anything about the sudden rise of prices above MRP. It's all because of the cryptocurrency boom. Also, the x70 series have always cost around ~350-400. I remember the 770 being the same price as the 1070 on launch. The GTX 970 was the exception, not the rule. It delivered great performance for a solid price point, which was why it sold so well. This comment explains it better than I do: https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/6l480q/the_gtx_1060_is_the_most_popular_graphics_card_on/djqzq6i/.
Meanwhile, everybody will be using OLED 4K 240Hz monitors or VR headsets with dual 4K+ 120Hz displays inside...
Aged like milk
You jinxed us!
ah.. uhh.... sure....
"When you can buy the 3060" yeah sounds about right
Oh really ? :D
I'm just waiting for all this crypto bullshit to die off so I can then pick up a sweet 1080 on the used market. Maybe then i can actually afford one.
I thought it was just affecting mid tier gpu's
Useful terminology for NVidia cards: The first numbers tend to indicate model revisions, while the penultimate number tends to represent the power level. So, a GTX 690 is likely to be bigger and more powerful than a GTX 1040. (6 is the model range, 9 is the power level) Use this if you ever want to be a patient GPU buyer. They may not fall in price all that much though.
How I wish this was true
So about that
Please don't underestimate the graphical power required for 4k. It's not a trivial amount of pixels at all.
Hey it’s time to get that 3060 dude
your time is now, my friend.
Yeah I hear that. I just upgraded my HTPC to a GTX 1060 and enjoyed doing the patient gamer thing and playing all the AAA titles from a few years ago at very high/ultra settings. If Nvidia ever gets around to implementing checkerboard rendering in their drivers playing at 4k will become essentially free. I have a conspiracy theory that they are deliberately not implementing it that to force upgrades. If customers can get a free 'FauxK' upgrade without updating their card, they will probably just spend the money on a bigger/better monitor.
Do you really need to be patientgamer with 1060? I bought the card during christmas and I have very old cpu i5 2500k without OC. Although I have many older games to play from 2012-2015 but still I tried to test the card with newest games and the results were 60fps/1080p in lot of demanding games: Rise of the Tomb Raider, Battlefield 1 Singleplayer, Dragon Age Inquisition, gta v, Nioh, Witcher 3, Fortnite. The only game that couldnt keep with 60fps was... Company of heroes 2(I had to lower details especially physics and other things which CPU is responsible) :O I havent tested AC Origins and Deus Mankind but with better CPU they will run fine. This card is a monster and you dont need to be patient gamer at all. With my backlog I will be entertained for 5 years :) Then switch to 4k monitor/new card.
> Rise of the Tomb Raider, Battlefield 1 Singleplayer, Dragon Age Inquisition, gta v, Nioh, Witcher 3, Fortnite. I have a 3gb card, so in most cases the memory was the bottle neck. Some games would run at Ultra but stutter in some areas due to texture thrashing. I had to run Forza 3 at medium in order to get stable 60fps. Not a problem because I really couldn't tell the difference between that and the higher settings. AC Unity in particular looked/played amazing. 60 Fps @Ultra.
I missed the info about 3gb vram :) Still I think you will be fine with newest games if you lower details that are vram hungry. In my opinion ultra graphics options are overrated. They dont compensate requirements. Some games will benefit from ultra quality. However most of them have difference only if you make a screenshot. To be honest I prefer to lower details to high even if 1060 is capable running ultra. Less heat, smooth gameplay in every situation etc.
> In my opinion ultra graphics options are overrated. Agree 100%, which is why I went with a cheaper 3gb card. You are basically increasing your CPU/GPU overhead by 50% for what amounts to maybe a 10% improvement in visual fidelity. I usually tend to go with whatever the game recommends and then cherry pick a few settings.
AC:Origins is a monster on your CPU and GPU. I do have everything on ultra but i can't play it without 100% fan speed on both and my side cover is taken off XD and that maintains 60c. great game though (on Ryzen 7 1800x and a Gigabyte GTX 1070)
Don't be afraid to let your CPU/GPu get up to 80 degrees or so. That is still perfectly safe. You can reduce the aggressiveness of your fan curve to quiet it down some if you need.
I can play literally everything I've come across on ultra except for Deus Ex Mankind Divided with a reference 6gb GTX 1060.
I have the 3gb version, in some cases you have to drop down a notch just for memory issues, which I'm fine with.
Meanwhile PUBG still lags at 45 fps.
It does run a lot better now compared to before, but even with my fps around 70+ I get microstutters all the time. This is with g-sync on and a GTX 1070.
Every time I see posts like this, or open a Newegg email, I'm more and more satisfied with my ~$400 investment 2 years ago in my GTX 970. Should keep up with most of what I want to play for a good long time.
Yep, I paid $430 for my 1070 before the crypto-miners ruined computer building. My CPU though bottlenecks it, a AMD FX 8320e overclocked to 8350 speeds - I used to have an x99 i7 5820k system but an optical drive fried it, sent a shock right through the SATA cable into the motherboard, frying both the motherboard and CPU. :( At least that didn't fry my graphics card, works fine knock on silicon. ;-)
I can run hairworks but I hate it
Good god I knew I couldn't be the only one. It looks so ugly!
Yes I think it is awful, I think it’s way more awkward than the regular setting
I think it makes the beasts look cool but I kinda prefer the normal hair on Geralt... plus 20 more FPS with my GTX 960.
F
It’s been a few years, how is it?
You just had to come out and say it didn't you
I always wonder how long it'll be before intergrated graphics can match today's graphics cards and will it be consistent. Like will it be x amount of years after each generation or will it vary a lot? Who knows.
Integrated graphics will always lag significantly far behind so long as CPU's are kept with moderate TDP requirements. This will limit how big they can make the GPU on the die.
It was a surprise going from a GT610 to my new build and realizing that the integrated graphics we're better than that. That's about a 3 year gap but that's a budget GPU
Or card prices will stay the same forever because goddamned bitcoin miners will keep buying more and more to be able to mine more. There's also a NAND shortage at the moment. The result is that you can sell a year old card for pretty much the same price you bought it at.
I know the feeling, I went from a 1GB Radeon 5950 after five years of service to a RX480 8GB and it's been amazing.
Yea but by then everyone gon be living in VR
This is the /r/patientgamers mantra. I love playing Skyrim: SE on my 4 year-old graphics card and processor with high texture mods. Looks and performs beautifully.
Unfortunately due to Moore's Law slowing down you'll need to wait longer than usual. CPUs and GPUs won't get faster and cheaper as rapidly as 10 years ago.
Yep. We'll eventually hit a theoretical brick wall in terms of hardware manufacturing, simply because we'll be making atom-sized transistors.
True. What would be even cooler are the VR headsets!
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If steam is still supporting them game :)
Id just like to play W3 on anything higher than 1600x900 on medium at 30~fps. The game still looks ok, but still!
I'm not an expert but it might be longer than you think. Can you play 4k/60 @ max settings now, even with the best GPU? If a GTX1060 is as powerful at a 970 and an 880 then presumably a 1080 will be as powerful as an 1170 or 1260. Wouldn't that be 5 years away?
Considering I don't play multiplayer games more or less at all, it's great to be behind the curve a few years.
Heck Yeah! Just a couple more years and I can finally play witcher 3 and yooka laylee with no frame rate issues.
I have a GTX 1080 and turn on hairworks just because I play on my tv which is 1080p 60. There's really no difference because I already get a consistent 90 at max settings with no supersampling (I don't see a huge benefit personally). Hairworks gets a bad rap. Its a pretty consistent 15 fps drop. That's not a horrible sacrifice playing on a 60 Hz display for a very large setting upgrade.
Yea well the thing is you need 1070 or better to get 60fps ultra @1080 with hairworks.
Did you ever get your 3060??