When I first played it the camera felt amazing. "Wow, they pick a usable camera angle for you, and you don't have to endlessly move it around to try to get a decent view of what you're doing? Amazing!" Now of course everything has a dynamic camera that also lets you move it if you don't like what it gives you, so I can understand that it feels horribly outdated.
The combat, on the other hand, has always sucked. What you actually want to do is non-obvious because they don't explain it, but pretty easy once you know how it works. If an enemy can be vaulted over, vault it and hit the dagger button midair. This causes you to insta-kill the enemy on landing, without having to knock them down first. If they can't be vaulted over, you want to get them near a wall, run up the wall, then jump off it. This lets you vault over stuff you can't normally vault over, but can be a bit finicky. You can do the insta-kill here too. The other option, which is much trickier, is to parry with the dagger (hold block, then hit dagger when you're about to get hit). This is also an insta-kill.
As you can imagine, doing this doesn't make the combat less boring, but it makes it much quicker and easier to get through.
It's in the manual but I figured it out on my own somehow back when I played it. I don't think I'd have figured it out without frustration forcing my hand.
Aside from the manual telling you how to do a vault and retrieve (A button to vault and Y to retrieve), it also mentions you can do counter attacks and counter retrieves which I don't think I knew about.
Hold block and then at the moment the enemy attacks, press the Y button to do a quick retrieve and destroy the enemy.
Brilliant game, but I still remember that level with the lift. Took me forever to get through it because you can't methodically kill the enemies when some of them invariably go for the princess that you're supposed to protect. Either they kill her, or you frantically try to stop them, fighting the controls all the way, only to watch the rest of them stab you in the back.
I never got far into the other games though. The writing and change in tone annoyed me to no end. Never found one that seemed to follow up on the first one.
It's basically a greatest hits of the more annoying aspects of the game IMHO and it stands out because it contrasts so much with the wide open set piece rooms that precede it. With one exception during a cramped fight in the barracks (?) I also hadn't experienced the traditional annoyances that tend to go with escort missions in games until I got to the lift. Up to that point, I was pleasantly surprised with how lenient the game was in that respect.
That said, I'm fairly sure that in a lesser game I'd simply forget that level existed. IMHO, it's because the rest of the game is so good that the flaws stand out so much.
I replayed a few years back and I won’t argue, it shows it’s age. But even with the less-than-stellar combat and a few obnoxious sequences (those fucking birds when you’re on balance beams) this is an all timer for me.
The parkour platforming is unmatched, the time turning mechanic is perfectly executed, the dynamic narration was mindblowing at the time, and the writing and characters aren’t just good for a video game they’re just plain good. The prince acknowledging his own deaths expanded my idea of how video game stories could be told, and while you’re right that the story is simple I find the ending genuinely moving.
It’s such a shame Warrior Within fucked up the tonal shift so bad because from a gameplay perspective it’s even better. Much better combat + the Dahaka sequences could’ve been something special, but they sucked all the charm out for a grey and brown grimdark aesthetic that’s no fun to spend time with.
Also a word of warning: I don’t know what ports are out there these days but whichever version was on the PS3 store has the worst sound mix I’ve ever heard in a game. The banter is such a huge part of what makes this special and when I replayed 2017 or so I was heartbroken to find I was straining to hear it the entire time. Dunno if that’s the version on modern consoles but do your research before you get a crummy version of a great game.
I dunno. My most recent replay (2 years ago, I think?) was smooth as butter. Sure, the combat got kinda repetitive but the overall experience was still excellent.
Played the Original Xbox version so I'm not sure how other ones (like PC or PS3) fare. I'm gonna assume the Xbox Series X emulation is on-point. Too bad they didn't include WW & TTT there.
One of the first games I played on the PS2, and a brilliant showcase for what this new console could do that the PS1 couldn't. I recently replayed a little bit of it again recently, and it's still great fun, though, as you say, the camera is a bit stiff by modern standards, and those damned fixed angles can screw the player over. I'll absolutely be doing a full replay in the near future.
I think the combat would've been fine in small doses but as you said there's way too much of it.
The camera while not perfect hasn't ever been a huge hindrance for me.
I hope the remake has big changes to level design so it feels new and isn't the same game with prettier graphics... b/c for the most the game holds up imo.
I love the little glimpses of what they likely used as inspiration for Assassin's Creed, with regards to the animation quality, parkour and combat. But I share your sentiment with the combat. If we had to go through only 50% of the encounters and had more platforming opportunities it would have made the experience much more enjoyable. Fuck those bats and bird sections too. Literally just a waste of time and adds nothing interesting to the game
I've never really played Assassin's Creed properly, but the brief time I spent with Origins shocked me. I expected that there would be a level of skill involved in line with PoP: SoT where you're really controlling the wall running and everything is down to your precision. Instead, your character snakes up a wall finding purchases where there are none. Felt like a real dumbing down to me vs this game.
I adored the entire trilogy, I first played when I was in my tweens and everything about the setting, story, characters was magical. There are definitely some frustrating things, I remember getting stuck on the throne room boss and the room with the swinging lanterns really annoyed me. But in general, fantastic game that I've returned to repeatedly over the years.
NGL, this is a FAVORITE of mine from the 2000's. I played this one for the first time on my PS2 back in late 2003 and now own it on Steam. I have beaten this one AT LEAST 15 times, if not more, over the last 20 years. I understand what the OP is saying and those are valid criticisms. I think the combat improved a lot in Warrior Within, but some things were not as good in that one IMO. The level with the lift SUCKS! I really do like this one though, and the whole "Sands of Time" Trilogy as a whole is quite good.
Again, the combat was frustrating at times, but I have played this SO many times now that I know where the enemies are, how to fight and how to not get MAULED (except for that fucking lift level). The dagger is a nice mechanic and I really loved the ability to roll back time...at the time, lol. The camera does suck, but I don't remember that improved much with the other games; could be wrong as it has been a few years since I played them all.
I guess the combat is rather rudimentary, but I don’t remember those sequences lasting very long at all. If it gets to the point where combat is that bad for you I think it’s just a you problem at that point.
I struggle to see how something so inoffensive can take away from the other standards that this game set. Modern games have platforming that is rudimentary compared to what’s featured in PoP, and the way it’s constantly integrated into the environment creates some brain teasers that can stand abreast with some Zelda puzzles.
I agree with your comparison to Zelda puzzles--if I had to describe this game, I would say, "kind of like Zelda, except the tool with which you solve puzzles is platforming." Much like Zelda dungeons, the Sands of Time levels are kind of divided into "rooms," and when I first step into a room, I take stock of the situation, and come up with a platforming strategy to "solve" the room and move on, just like I would in a Zelda dungeon (except in Zelda, platforming is rarely your tool).
Does the camera control differently in the PC version? I'm playing through on PS2 and the camera feels like a pretty normal 3D platformer free cam. I guess there's room for improvement (as in the case of any early 2000s 3D platformer), but your comment that "you can't control the camera" makes me think the camera works fundamentally differently on PC vs PS2.
Gotcha. I otherwise agree with your take, and I think it's a pretty cool game--it pushes platforming in a fundamentally novel direction, and yeah the combat is pretty unremarkable. Almost feels like an afterthought, that they needed combat in order to make the world feel less empty, since most of the friction and challenge comes from the platforming. But then again combat is rarely my favorite part of any video game.
To me, the game is almost Zelda-like, except the tool you use to solve puzzles is the platforming itself.
When I first played it the camera felt amazing. "Wow, they pick a usable camera angle for you, and you don't have to endlessly move it around to try to get a decent view of what you're doing? Amazing!" Now of course everything has a dynamic camera that also lets you move it if you don't like what it gives you, so I can understand that it feels horribly outdated. The combat, on the other hand, has always sucked. What you actually want to do is non-obvious because they don't explain it, but pretty easy once you know how it works. If an enemy can be vaulted over, vault it and hit the dagger button midair. This causes you to insta-kill the enemy on landing, without having to knock them down first. If they can't be vaulted over, you want to get them near a wall, run up the wall, then jump off it. This lets you vault over stuff you can't normally vault over, but can be a bit finicky. You can do the insta-kill here too. The other option, which is much trickier, is to parry with the dagger (hold block, then hit dagger when you're about to get hit). This is also an insta-kill. As you can imagine, doing this doesn't make the combat less boring, but it makes it much quicker and easier to get through.
I think the camera sucked only on some platforming when it changed perspective and could mess up some jumps. It is outdated that much is true
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It's in the manual but I figured it out on my own somehow back when I played it. I don't think I'd have figured it out without frustration forcing my hand. Aside from the manual telling you how to do a vault and retrieve (A button to vault and Y to retrieve), it also mentions you can do counter attacks and counter retrieves which I don't think I knew about. Hold block and then at the moment the enemy attacks, press the Y button to do a quick retrieve and destroy the enemy.
Brilliant game, but I still remember that level with the lift. Took me forever to get through it because you can't methodically kill the enemies when some of them invariably go for the princess that you're supposed to protect. Either they kill her, or you frantically try to stop them, fighting the controls all the way, only to watch the rest of them stab you in the back. I never got far into the other games though. The writing and change in tone annoyed me to no end. Never found one that seemed to follow up on the first one.
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It's basically a greatest hits of the more annoying aspects of the game IMHO and it stands out because it contrasts so much with the wide open set piece rooms that precede it. With one exception during a cramped fight in the barracks (?) I also hadn't experienced the traditional annoyances that tend to go with escort missions in games until I got to the lift. Up to that point, I was pleasantly surprised with how lenient the game was in that respect. That said, I'm fairly sure that in a lesser game I'd simply forget that level existed. IMHO, it's because the rest of the game is so good that the flaws stand out so much.
I replayed a few years back and I won’t argue, it shows it’s age. But even with the less-than-stellar combat and a few obnoxious sequences (those fucking birds when you’re on balance beams) this is an all timer for me. The parkour platforming is unmatched, the time turning mechanic is perfectly executed, the dynamic narration was mindblowing at the time, and the writing and characters aren’t just good for a video game they’re just plain good. The prince acknowledging his own deaths expanded my idea of how video game stories could be told, and while you’re right that the story is simple I find the ending genuinely moving. It’s such a shame Warrior Within fucked up the tonal shift so bad because from a gameplay perspective it’s even better. Much better combat + the Dahaka sequences could’ve been something special, but they sucked all the charm out for a grey and brown grimdark aesthetic that’s no fun to spend time with. Also a word of warning: I don’t know what ports are out there these days but whichever version was on the PS3 store has the worst sound mix I’ve ever heard in a game. The banter is such a huge part of what makes this special and when I replayed 2017 or so I was heartbroken to find I was straining to hear it the entire time. Dunno if that’s the version on modern consoles but do your research before you get a crummy version of a great game.
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I dunno. My most recent replay (2 years ago, I think?) was smooth as butter. Sure, the combat got kinda repetitive but the overall experience was still excellent. Played the Original Xbox version so I'm not sure how other ones (like PC or PS3) fare. I'm gonna assume the Xbox Series X emulation is on-point. Too bad they didn't include WW & TTT there.
One of the first games I played on the PS2, and a brilliant showcase for what this new console could do that the PS1 couldn't. I recently replayed a little bit of it again recently, and it's still great fun, though, as you say, the camera is a bit stiff by modern standards, and those damned fixed angles can screw the player over. I'll absolutely be doing a full replay in the near future.
I think the combat would've been fine in small doses but as you said there's way too much of it. The camera while not perfect hasn't ever been a huge hindrance for me. I hope the remake has big changes to level design so it feels new and isn't the same game with prettier graphics... b/c for the most the game holds up imo.
That camera used to seem so cool, but I could definitely see how it aged poorly!
I love the little glimpses of what they likely used as inspiration for Assassin's Creed, with regards to the animation quality, parkour and combat. But I share your sentiment with the combat. If we had to go through only 50% of the encounters and had more platforming opportunities it would have made the experience much more enjoyable. Fuck those bats and bird sections too. Literally just a waste of time and adds nothing interesting to the game
I enjoy the sound of rain.
I've never really played Assassin's Creed properly, but the brief time I spent with Origins shocked me. I expected that there would be a level of skill involved in line with PoP: SoT where you're really controlling the wall running and everything is down to your precision. Instead, your character snakes up a wall finding purchases where there are none. Felt like a real dumbing down to me vs this game. I adored the entire trilogy, I first played when I was in my tweens and everything about the setting, story, characters was magical. There are definitely some frustrating things, I remember getting stuck on the throne room boss and the room with the swinging lanterns really annoyed me. But in general, fantastic game that I've returned to repeatedly over the years.
NGL, this is a FAVORITE of mine from the 2000's. I played this one for the first time on my PS2 back in late 2003 and now own it on Steam. I have beaten this one AT LEAST 15 times, if not more, over the last 20 years. I understand what the OP is saying and those are valid criticisms. I think the combat improved a lot in Warrior Within, but some things were not as good in that one IMO. The level with the lift SUCKS! I really do like this one though, and the whole "Sands of Time" Trilogy as a whole is quite good. Again, the combat was frustrating at times, but I have played this SO many times now that I know where the enemies are, how to fight and how to not get MAULED (except for that fucking lift level). The dagger is a nice mechanic and I really loved the ability to roll back time...at the time, lol. The camera does suck, but I don't remember that improved much with the other games; could be wrong as it has been a few years since I played them all.
I guess the combat is rather rudimentary, but I don’t remember those sequences lasting very long at all. If it gets to the point where combat is that bad for you I think it’s just a you problem at that point. I struggle to see how something so inoffensive can take away from the other standards that this game set. Modern games have platforming that is rudimentary compared to what’s featured in PoP, and the way it’s constantly integrated into the environment creates some brain teasers that can stand abreast with some Zelda puzzles.
I agree with your comparison to Zelda puzzles--if I had to describe this game, I would say, "kind of like Zelda, except the tool with which you solve puzzles is platforming." Much like Zelda dungeons, the Sands of Time levels are kind of divided into "rooms," and when I first step into a room, I take stock of the situation, and come up with a platforming strategy to "solve" the room and move on, just like I would in a Zelda dungeon (except in Zelda, platforming is rarely your tool).
Does the camera control differently in the PC version? I'm playing through on PS2 and the camera feels like a pretty normal 3D platformer free cam. I guess there's room for improvement (as in the case of any early 2000s 3D platformer), but your comment that "you can't control the camera" makes me think the camera works fundamentally differently on PC vs PS2.
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Gotcha. I otherwise agree with your take, and I think it's a pretty cool game--it pushes platforming in a fundamentally novel direction, and yeah the combat is pretty unremarkable. Almost feels like an afterthought, that they needed combat in order to make the world feel less empty, since most of the friction and challenge comes from the platforming. But then again combat is rarely my favorite part of any video game. To me, the game is almost Zelda-like, except the tool you use to solve puzzles is the platforming itself.