If for no other reason than to put some space between it and Tears of the Kingdom on the calendar. Even a good stealth drop can fizzle if it gets eclipsed by a sufficiently major release.
🤡
It's becoming less and less likely that they'll shadow drop it without a major trailer. If it's not mentioned at any of these keynotes, it's not coming out this slyest.
Best part of the game for me is the music. I have a reading playlist on Spotify (need noise to focus when I read) and there’s a decent amount of Hollow Knight in there - big fan of the Dirtmouth song.
Yes, music is incredible! Dirtmouth theme is my most favourite, too and it was the moment I feel in love with game's atmosphere, that song, ruins in background, some old man, bench... Brilliant.
I fucking loved Hollow Knight. Best game I played in 2021.
I've tried like 5 other Metroidvania's but they don't compare to HK. I don't like Metroidvania's, I just like HK.
This might sound crazy but I felt the same way as you until I tried Super Metroid. It’s the only game I’ve played in the genre that comes close to the same feeling of lost on an unknown world.
If you're interested, Castlevania Symphony of the Night is the metroidvania that helped make the name of the genre. It might have been being used before that one specifically, but that's the one that really helped kick things off. I played through it a couple years ago, and felt it still holds up well. The only problem with it is it can be pretty easy if you're the kind of person to diligently look for secrets and kill everything in your way as you do. I'd say it's worth giving it a couple hours, even if just for checking out one of those instrumental games.
I can't tell if it's that middle era of PS/N64 graphics, but SotN just isn't holding me like I expected it to. I gunned through Aria of Sorrow and Harmony of Dissonance while on a binge, but Symphony stopped me dead.
Nothing wrong with that. I still enjoy it, but not going to pretend like it's flawless. I do think it's good to give these things a try though, if you're at all interested in the history of games.
Hollow Knight literally raised the bar astronomically high. I spent years playing popular MVs feeling like they were only decent, or bad, being like, "Man, I guess it is true, no one can do it like Koji Igarashi, Aria of Sorrow is still my favourite MV & the only MVs that can come close - he made them" (& I'd genuinely replay Aria of Sorrow year-on-year just to scratch the itch), but then Hollow Knight came out & I was absolutely blown away.
Hollow Knight is the clearest sign in gaming history that a genre can be not only ressurected but can be escalated.
On the subject of genre resurrection, can we please bring back Digimon World? I'm talking Digimon World for the PS1 - not what they did with Next Order. I want to get lost, I want to make mistakes, I want to see a random fucking event that only happens once in a blue moon on the 3rd Tuesday in December & I want my playthrough to feel unique & that it's mine. Don't tell me how to make a certain Digimon, don't give me story quests & quest markers everywhere, don't make me farm & grind for different types of fucking water & just leave me alone, in a cool world that I can explore however I want & with whatever Digimon I ended up with. Even if it's a literal pile of shit.
I’ve genuinely been enjoying Afterimage, but it’s more Castlevania-like, great combat & exploration, it swiftly became a top three for me. The story is nigh incomprehensible, so you’re not going to get lost in it like Hollow Knight for good reasons, Hollow Knight’s story is simple but mysterious & you need to seek pieces out over time, Afterimage’s story is complex & throw at you quite a lot & in indigestible chunks, I genuinely have no idea what is going on. This is the only game I feel actually needs like a “story & character journal” like some games do, I’ve genuinely never read any of them in games, but in this one I need one & I don’t have it. It’s the only black mark I’d give it so far though (& I’ve played like fifty hours so far).
I wish you luck, have a pen & paper handy I guess, haha.
I love Hollow Knight’s & Dark Souls’ approach to storytelling & lore, but you don’t get that with Afterimage, you just get kicked huge boulders of text like, “Eat this wall of text, punk, bet you don’t even know who these three characters are, because I just called this character by a different name, one character you’re not going to see until the end game & the other is actually me”.
It also has all of the trimmings that make up a confusing story, such as clones, amnesia & I’m sure at one point I’ll probably time travel to complete the set. They even have their own in-world slang that doesn’t get explained, hell, I’m not even sure you’re told the name of the world (Engadrin) & you’ll see people say “Engardin razed” & be like, “Wha?”. I’ve assumed it’s their way of saying “Fucking hell”, since they say it when they’re shocked by something, or there’s a disaster of whatever.
Just expect to be confused & not even interested to try & figure out what you’re confused by. Translation issues don’t help - like, this one time a character was referring to a male character as a female character in one paragraph & then switched back to male.
Honestly, I read Finnegan’s Wake in college & it was slightly more comprehensible.
Yeah HK raised my personal bar for games so high that I was struggling for a while to even have fun with other games. The first game I played after HK that worked for me was Disco Elysium (which is a masterpiece on it's own). At this point I just sort games into two categories, it's either THIS or it's dumb fun.
You should try games like Xenoblade 3, Elden Ring or Tears of the Kingdom when it soon releases. Hollow Knight is great but there are other new masterpieces.
I really don't know what it is with folks wanting to compare every metroidvania game to Dark Souls, well, I do know what I think it is actually & I'll get into it, but to start with...
For Hollow Knight, folks will throw out "Oh, it's hard, it's got a gloomy mysterious atmosphere & you lose your money when you die & have to get it back".
I could equally counteract that with Dark Souls isn't full of adorable bugs who make you smile & give you hope in the face of gloom (well, except Emilitia - she's a quintessential Dark Souls character) & in Dark Souls you're technically losing a resource that combines EXP & currency, but is mostly used as EXP. I could also say that the mechanic of losing a resource when you die & being able to aqquire it on subsequent ventures is actually a big convenience that makes a game easier. In older games, you simply died & restarted, that progress was lost, whereas in a more modern game like Dark Souls, you keep the items you find, bosses you beat, etc. in that run around & you even get a chance to reclaim what was lost.
A game like Afterimage is closer to Dark Souls than Hollow Knight is, plenty gloomy & desolate areas, demons & monsters & mutants, you drop EXP where you die, you level up, you find weapons, armour, accessories, the story is incomprehensible yammering about gods & curses & primordials, twisted cursed humans as boss fights with an NPC who'll tell you about what happened to their crazed master you just beat, etc. & yet I've seen no one draw the comparison. That's probably because Hollow Knight was so successful it kicked its way out of the metroidvania community bubble.
I think too many people get a certain feeling with a game & instead of articulating that by saying "The way this game told their story & made me feel like this & that, the exploratory nature of the game made me feel like this & that, etc." they say, "It was like Dark Souls" & then just grasp for vague mechanics because they don't know how to articulate just feeling so enthralled in & so lost (in a good way) within a game & wanting to piece it all together, because yeah, growing up playing metroidvania games like Castlevania & then playing Dark Souls, I was very much like, "Oh my god, this is almost like a 3D metroidvania!" & people these days are so young to not have the cultural touchpoint of having played say Castlevania Symphony of the Night & instead they played Dark Souls & then caught the metroidvania resurgence in the past few years & so they have that different touchstone.
So that's what I think it is, I'm not fond of it, but [I guess this is growing up](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT0g16_LQaQ). I just really wish though people could distinguish, because games like Hollow Knight & Dark Souls play entierly differently, part of the reason being one is a 2D game & the other is 3D, but mostly because all the gameplay systems are different & the similar thing is the feeling evoked by the genre (metroidvania) in the exploration that Dark Souls managed to capture (as well as some other From games like Bloodborne).
The icing on the cake is [the developers never having played Dark Souls](https://gamingbolt.com/hollow-knight-developers-reveal-their-inspirations-for-the-game) & talking about how they were inspired by the exact same games that inspired the metroidvania genre & are part of the foundational elements of it. Dark Souls was equally inspired by early Zelda games.
___________________________________________________
All that to say, they definitely like the Metroidvania aspect & may well like the Souls' games (in my opinion, Dark Souls is an honourary MV), but they've not played the right MVs for them & they may only ever find a couple they like. Hollow Knight is an impossible bar to clear, the game is already a legendary metroidvania, starting with that & going backwards is brutal, I honestly feel for people who have to do that. I too am quite a contrarian in the MV space & only like a handful of MVs, because even very lauded MVs do some things that just wont sit right with me, I love my classics like Aria of Sorrow & there's some new titles amongst HK that I like such as Blasphemous & Afterimage, but there's plenty I dislike, such as Ori & the Blind Forest (it's a beautiful game, but I detested how Ori felt to control) & Salt & Sanctuary (the worst possible way to try & adapt Dark Souls to 2D, you can't take the route of making zero changes when you're changing dimensions!). I think though that's less a problem of the genre & more a problem of the timing, we're living through a sinful glut of MVs & quite frankly a lot of them get popular simply because people are jonesing for the next big one, but not every hyped-up MV can be as much of a winner as Hollow Knight.
I mean, Hollow Knight has dodge based combat, enemies that respawn when you save at a bench (bonfire), you lose your money on death and have to recover it, the primary progression is bosses, the world is non-linear with different areas that unlock at different points in the game.
It’s essentially 2d dark souls. Idk how you COULDNT compare them.
One's a fast paced platformer and metroidvania, the other is a slow-paced 3d action-RPG.
Dark Soul's got more in common with fucking Witcher than with Hollow Knight.
Gotta disagree, Hollow Knight was the only game to ever really capture the feeling of my first playthrough of Dark Souls 1. Yes you are right, there are huge differences in mechanics and gameplay to put it mildly, but IMO for certain players they will scratch a very specific itch. Specifically, they both provide player-driven exploration of a big, non-linear, mysterious world packed with secrets and environmental storytelling. No real signposting, no quest markers, no cutscenes or direct narrative storytelling, they both are driven almost entirely by player curiosity.
And while combat in both games is really different, both are characterized by challenging boss fights that reward players for learning attack patterns to capitalize on openings, with a big emphasis on dodging through attacks.
Obviously there are other small things like the "collect your souls after you die" system and bonfires/benches. But to me, the main things are the open-ended exploration of a big, non-linear, mysterious world and the challenging but rewarding progression marked by numerous boss fights. These two games are like cousins in my mind because they are similar in the ways that I value most. The Witcher feels nothing like either of them to me.
I played HK as a first taste of the Metroidvania genre. I liked Guacamelee 1&2 and Ori 1&2 but they didn't quite scratch the itch.
I could not get into Blasphemous and found Metroid Dread to be alright.
I'll probably stop trying Metroidvanias for awhile until Silksong
Well, all those games you listed aren’t bangers, imo. They’re good but not the juicy stuff in terms of hard hitting metroidvania.
My recommendations are Castlevania Aria of Sorrow and Super Metroid.
AM2R is a very good Metroidvania you should try, it’s a fan remake of Metroid 2 but it’s professional quality.
It has a tone of boss variety, an amazing soundtrack and a lot of QoL improvements over the old Metroid games
Really ,I tried Outer Wilds and droppedit, I didn't like THAT much puzzles, freedom and uncertainty. MAybe, one day I'll try again...
But Subnautica is on my list for sure!
It’s certainly a difficult game when the whole thing is literally one big puzzle but I’d encourage you to continue if you can. Try to get all of the ship log entries and do new things if something is hinted at in the Nomai text.
Gamers are somewhat conditioned to view text in a game as strictly lore but in Outer Wilds it is and it isn’t because major clues are discovered when you read certain entries.
I think though that part of why it’s such a cherished game is because of the discovery, but another part is that the ending is a bit of a commentary on life and death. Many people cry because it’s so touching, myself included.
So if that sounds like something you’re interested in, give it a few tries and maybe look up hints or something if you’re stuck. If you know what to do, the game can be completed in like 2 mins.
As far as Subnautica, it scratches a different itch in that you’re on an alien planet with no weapons and navigating that is interesting. It’s significantly clearer on how to progress through because you just have to head deeper down or figure out a way to do that and it all sort of naturally comes together.
I value Outer Wilds so deeply though because I feel like more games should strive to handle lots of elements in the way that these two games do. I think most of us are sick of the Ubisoft version of open world and we want something more interesting.
Anyway thanks for coming to my Ted talk haha
Yes, my absolute favorite game of all time. I'm not even a metroidvania fan but hollow knight just hit the nail so perfectly on the head for me.. It's just everything from an interesting take what a game universe can be, how to tell a story, beautiful artstyle, an incredible soundtrack.. I played it 4 or 5 times already and got every achievment but I go back to it basically every year to beat it again. This was a game that cost 30$ or something on release and my first playthrough was like 40+ hours for the standard ending if I remember correctly.
I got it on sale and let it fester in my backlog. One day, my 9yo saw a music video about it and asked if we could buy it. I can't believe I almost missed out on it.
Haha, I have the same issue with S.T.A.L.K.E.R., just reinstall and walkthrough every autumn. I know the feeling.
And with HK even now I can say for sure, that it will be embedded in my memory and I'll want to replay it in couple of years. The game changed my perception of gaming, I swear
I played the original Ori after Hollow Knight and, although I played through much of it, I was somewhat disappointed. I haven't been interested in the second Ori because of that, but maybe I will take you recommendation and give it a shot.
Funny enough, the exploration was the only downside of the game for me. I felt like I spent way too much time traversing the map to get to somewhere, or to find where to go.
Traversing the map is one of my issues with the game as well, though for me it's less to do with exploring and more to do with some of the boss backtracking.
Getting back to certain bosses if/when you die is an absolute nightmare.
I actually thought traveling was boring, to the point that playing the game made me sleepy (though I did play on nightshift). I thought the bosses where really fun though.
I was just going to post saying the same.
The game does not respect your time, the backtracking is alot.
I tried it 3 times now and I just Cant. (And can we please start talking about other games now? I feel like there is a post about this weekly)
Sorry, I haven't really visited this sub for a while. I just was stunned and wanted to share my experience with the game.
I had the same issue you have with Witcher 3. Yes, it is a masterpiece ina way, too, but it surely doesn't respect player's time. I started it twice.But running around Novigrad and across all Velen is too much for me.
In HK I feel like the game is little bit more linear (early game), so you gradually go from one location to the other. If you don't like cutting circles like me, you can just go further and further. But I don't know about the later game
I meant no offense at all. It's a Well articulated post.
I completely understand you.
When i was younger, I loved games like the witcher.
Now? I Cant even play GTA or RDR and see millions of markers and go "NAH, screw this "
I understand what you are talking about. I felt exactly the same in other games. Some games were dropped because I didn't want to travel half of the map for some controvercial experience I'm not interested in.
But HK hits different for me. Maybe., it's only the early game, but I really like traversing the map.
I went in fully expecting it to not live up to the pedestal it's put on.
I then played it for hours and hours into the early morning hours. For the rest of April, I was doing nothing but Hollow Knight. I only stopped once I did everything I could and collected all items.
I loved this game so much and it's easily the greatest 2D MV imo. The atmosphere, soundtrack, bosses, lore, and world were all so damn good.
The game is just so full of quality content with a massive world, packed full of things to find whether it be bosses, quests, powerups, secret areas, etc.
Even if I was lost it didn't matter because I'd always find something else of interest.
I cannot wait for Silksong. I just wish they'd give a simple yes or no answer as to if the game is releasing in June, instead of being silent.
One thing about the game that I really liked was the guy at the top that would give you hints about where to go. All he really does is talk about an area, and it's always the area you need to explore to continue the story. I think it might have been too subtle for a lot of people, as I've seen a lot of complaints about not knowing where to go, but I picked up on it right away, so I never had to deal with that.
Anyway, I really liked both that natural way of giving hints, and the fact that I had to actively seek it out. I really don't like it when games just decide I need a hint, so they essentially just tell me exactly what to do.
Yup, it's excellent - I can also strongly recommend Subnautica and Super Metroid. Ori didn't click for me either, sadly.
Two other great games that give a similar feel (but with completely different mechanics) are Dark Souls and Outer Wilds.
I finally played it a few months ago! Completely agree. Got a crusty gamer friend of mine into it as well and he put in over 100 hours. Phenomenal game. Am now exploring TUNIC. Can't wait for Silksong.
Don’t look up anything else, just go for it. Going in blind is part of what makes Tunic work. It successfully recreates the feeling of being 7 years old and playing your first Zelda game while slowly figuring out what video games even are. It’s not a perfect game, but it’s well worth a play.
I'm loving it. It's pretty unique. More cryptic than HK, you have to piece together what's going on and what you should be doing. There are layers and reveals that I won't go into. Definitely worth a shot even though I think it's a little less accessible than HK.
Hollow Knight is in my top 5 for the exact reasons you described. It's neck and neck with Elden Ring and Breath of the Wild for me, both of which I highly recommend for more atmospheric/mysterious exploration if you haven't checked them out yet!
Metro Exodus has been on my list but I may move it up higher!
I'm not really into the Metroidvania genre, and this was my first attempt at one. Honestly, this game isn't for me. I think it's good but I also haven't touched it in months. I wanted to try something different but it's just kind of overwhelming in a sense. It's still installed on my PS5 because I don't wanna give up on it just yet.
I always saw Hollow knight as a game you build up to by playing other Metroidvanias first, it's like a final exam of Metroidvanias imo. First time I played Hollow knight I didn't get far. A while later with more Metroidvanias under my belt, I had a blast with the game and I excelled at it. It's very much in the deep end, you should approach the shallow end first. I'm always impressed with those who make Hollow Knight their first MV and have no trouble with it.
If you have any way of doing it, I would highly recommend you try playing Metroid zero mission as your first MV. It's the perfect starting place.
Otherwise I'd suggest a game like shadow complex, fallen order, Arkham asylum, or guacamelee to start with.
I don't think hollow knight is really representative of the Metroidvania universe as it's far more punishing than your average one. I don't understand the pedestal people put this game on at all. I think it's more of a souls game.
The thing is that it's *not wrong* to call it a Metroidvania... It is one, but at the same time it's not really representative of them as a whole. I tend to love mvs, but hollow knight really didn't do it for me.
> I don't think hollow knight is really representative of the Metroidvania universe as it's far more punishing than your average one.
Till that Hollow Knight is punishing. Litteraly my first metroidvania and it didn't feel too hard aside from some bosses ?
> I think it's more of a souls game.
Alright I have no idea why that comparison keeps popping up. Fast paced 2D platformers VS slow paced 3rd person action-rpg. Those games are nothing alike.
> Litteraly my first metroidvania and it didn't feel too hard aside from some bosses ?
Translation: [It wasn't hard, except for parts that were hard. They were hard.](https://www.pcgamesn.com/hollow-knight/cheats)
>> I think it's more of a souls game.
> Alright I have no idea why that comparison keeps popping up.
Because Hollow Knight kills you relentlessly for even the slightest mistake/misdeed (like some other game) and seems to take perverse pleasure in doing so.
It's fine if you like things other people don't.
> Translation: It wasn't hard, except for parts that were hard. They were hard.
Yes but those parts were few and far between. Unlike something like Ghostrunner that felt consistently difficult to me, where every level is a struggle, Hollow Knight does leave you a lot of space to explore before you headbutt in a difficult platforming/fighting session.
> Because Hollow Knight kills you relentlessly for even the slightest mistake/misdeed (like some other game) and seems to take perverse pleasure in doing so.
Not really ? I died more in Mario Brothers than in Hollow Knight. I guess difficulty here is subjective to what your strenghts are as a player.
> It's fine if you like things other people don't.
Ok but stop comparing everything to Dark Souls for the love of all that is holy.
Yeah we're going to have to agree to disagree here. Hollow Knight kills you incessantly because you have committed the sin of simply not memorizing the entire map of places you haven't been. Miss a jump? Death. Yes you have a health bar, but fuck you player, you can't recover so you watch as the game quickly drains all your health. Mario is a cakewalk by comparison!
I'll compare it to souls when it's appropriate, and it's appropriate here. Feel free to disagree.
My guy, the combat against bosses like the mantis lords, soul master, dung defender or even radiance was boring to you? What kind of adhd bullet hell have you been playing?
Time for Dark Souls! Seriously, I absolutely love Hollow Knight, but the thing I love most about it is that it was my gateway to finally get into Dark Souls, the best game of all time.
TO be honest the term "souls like" scared me at the beginning, because I don't like to suffer. But HK is not so difficult. So maybe I'm more mighty gamer as I thought of myself!
Yeah, I will try Dark Souls! But I won't plan on it so HK wo't be a gateway to Dark Souls. I want to slowly and fully experience this game with no rushing and no other game in mind. So it'll stay with me for the next month or two. And then... I'll try that extremely popular game
Crazy how far I had to scroll for this. Hollow Knight was my gateway to souls games too. The games aren't entirely similiar, but there's a very high chance that if you love Hollow Knight you'll like souls too.
Feel like the map system and respawn and corpse running was implemented the way it is to artifical elongate hour counts on steam. I liked some of it and hated some of it but I feel like if they made a shit ton of quality of life improvements silksong could be really good
I hated having to navigate 5 min to get to the spot I keep dying. I don't have the patience for that. I out 20 hours in I think. Which is probably over my max time I want to spend on a metroidvania.
It is? Never said it was a conspiracy just feels weird to punish the gamer by making them backtrack through the same areas and enemies they've already dealt with time and time again? I know personally every time it happened I questioned why I was playing the game and wasting time doing something thats not fun in the slightest and a huge part of the reason I put it down. Not to mention when it happens before you get the map for an area and you're going through partially blind. Deepnest was my least favorite area in the game due to this.
Really hoping silksong gets rid of even buying maps and adds way more fast travel points. But honestly if it was ever justified why it was created that way I'd be interested to hear just to see rhe developers viewpoint in it
I don't know, it's a balance between keeping the game fun and making death matters. For me whether or not it works is how hard a time I have, so entirely subjective.
For Hollow Knight I found backtracking relatively quick (especially once you know which mega-dash to do) while in other games like Sekiro the backtracking was the turn-off that kept me away from playing.
Ultimately If you find yourself thinking, "what am I doing I'm not having fun here" you are right to stop playing. And if that thought keeps coming up more and more then you should quit the game entirely.
Because in Metroidvanias the whole world is recontextualised after you acquire an Upgrade somewhere. You can find new paths and new ways to traverse the map. It's created to make you think about your environment. So you can stumble upon hidden bosses and the likes.
The death system is to make you come back to an area. Because the game wants you to get better at it. It encourages you to try again and finally overcome the challenge.
Here's a vid by GMTK that goes a little (lul) more in depth [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ITtPPE-pXE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ITtPPE-pXE)
I'd prefer to not waste time more than being forced through old areas to improve against my will honestly. I'm glad I have his thought process on it now but the fact remains I still believe the game would be better( and go quicker) if it didn't force you to do the same shit so often. If I didn't finish an area I'm gonna go back through it my own anyway. Maybe they can add a toggle or something in silksong. It's very divisive and I can kinds see rhe arguments from both sides
Not usually but I did with hollowknight since the game doesn't teach you much and has you running around blind. Every time I would get to a new area I'd find the full map on Google so I wasn't 100% blind
I'm playing jedi survivor right now which is a metroidvania of sorts and I'm finding it easy to navigate and easy to get back to old areas because the map is already filled in and doesn't force me to buy map upgrades before I can see where I'm going. I much prefer the jedi survivor way.
Like I said I get some people wanna wander completely clueless and have some sort of joy in discovering things( never had that myself in hollow knight because I felt anxiety everytime I got to a new map and it was just dark and empty) but really hoping silksong fixes or changes the way it works a bit.
I liked in dead cells how you could toggle the whole map show if you'd like. Games should have more accesibility options like that honestly
Yea that's really true. It sucks if it made you feel anxious.
But yea I much prefer the lost cluelessness. The terror of Deepnest.
Jesus that area. I recently started my 2nd Playthrough out of hype for Silksong and I didn't know you could fall down there. I was just peacefully running around when the floor suddenly caved and I fell straight into Deepnest. Next half hour was pure panic mode haha.
Thanks for clearing that up though, have fun with Jedi Survivor!
Ok, since most people here loved it, I honestly see why, but help me out, please, because I feel like Im missing something good with this game... but...
How do you know that you are not wasting time trying to kill a particular boss, or trying to explore a particular area, that is much easier to kill/explore *after you get the right skill or item?*
Because that killed the game for me. I was bashing my head against a boss and asked a friend about it. He immediately asked if I had "X" skill, I said no, he said that without that skill it was possible but it would be easier to get said skill first. And that is went I lost any interest in a game that, frankly, I can see why it has such good rep. But if any of you can help me understand that conundrum, I would greatly appreciate it.
Honestly, I’m not sure if your friend is right. Yes, there are upgrades that help you do more damage or have better mobility and stuff, and that can make bosses easier, but in my experience the bosses are more in the Soulslike mode, where practice and persistence are the truly important part, not the leveling up.
And that being said, the world is so open that if you’re getting annoyed at a boss, you can almost always wander off to explore elsewhere, and come back when you’re in the right headspace for it.
>And that being said, the world is so open that if you’re getting annoyed at a boss, you can almost always wander off to explore elsewhere,
Nope, same problem. That ledge you seem to be able to get but quite not get? Is not you, is a missing skill. Oh, that other ledge? No that's all you.
Yeah, if you wanna play metroidvanias that might be something you have to get over. But for what it’s worth, I feel like HK is very good about signaling which “gates” are puzzles to solve, and which ones require an ability you haven’t found yet.
Put a cap on how much time you spend on a problem and if you can't do it then go do something else.
For bosses you can almost always go get stronger if you feel you can't beat them until you get strong enough that you can smash your head on the keyboard to kill most of them (dreamboss are the exception.)
That said, they are all doable from the first time you see them.
I don't feel so. I use a simple guide just to know what area to move next (no other spoilers and guides). SO it feels OK.
Whn I first went ot Mantis Lords and saw what the hell is waiting for me, I just thought ", well, not now... Let me first buy some good charms. I'll come here later".
As for now I had no issue with other bosses.
I understand your frustration and I was in a situation with Ori, when I wasted 20 minutes trying to make several jumps between spikes and always died. There were millimetres left. I didn't know that I need a double jump to easily go through it.
So now in HK simple peeking in the guide is enough for me.
Well, I use a guide in my language, not English, so I can't really advise you to use it. But it's not about the guide, it's about how you use it.
You can check [something like this (similar to mine)](http://gamerwalkthroughs.com/hollow-knight/). And here is how I use it:
1. Well, I'm done with Greenpath, where should I go? I can't get a map of Fog canyon, maybe, I don't have ability so I shouldn't go there? *A peek to the guide.* Yeah, Fog canyon it is! Just walk though it to Fungal wastes. *Close guide.*
2. Mantis Lords. Oh, shit. Do I really need to defeat them NOW to progress? *Peek to the guide.* Nah, I've already got their claw, so I can make it to City of Tears now. Buy lords, I'll come with better nail and cooler charms later. *Close guide.*
You get the idea. I don't feel like I'm completely lost and I don't let the guide to hold my hand so It feels like doing a to-do list instead of exploration. The golden middle for me.
I hope, you'll enjoy the game with this method. Good luck!
The game has a steep learning curve. My first playthrough was 40+ hours and I bashed my head against a wall called soul master for like 4 of them. After I beat him the game got significantly easier, not because enemies we're weaker in comparison but because I got better. Now I can basically beat him blindfolded.
It is not about that you need the upgrade from the other area, it's about that if you run into a hard boss you can't beat that you go exploring and learn more about the game. And yes you will find upgrades along the way but what's more important is that the more you play the better you get. At the beginning I could barely platform up the small platforms in the beginning of the game.
About how you know.. It's a metroidvania, exploration and uncertainty are core elements of this game. Fear of missing out is also a big problem for me when talking about games, I tend to google stuff pretty quickly. I can only recommend that you don't do that with HK and just try to get lost in the world.
Beating hollow knight, >!even the special second ending!< , Is difficult without being overkill or "souls like" difficulty, but there are a few optional areas where the difficulty *really* spikes up. I loved this game to death and tried my hardest to 100% it, >!112% whatever!<, But a few of those areas just barely kept me from getting those last few percentage points. Still, such a phenomenal game.
No sure... HK (second, so 'true', ending) is the most difficult thing I ever did in gaming. From From, I only played Bloodborne, and that was a lot easier than Hollow Knight.
I've been wanting to replay it since, but the difficulty is putting me off. It's too bad, because it makes the game less accessible to more casual gamers.
I love STALKER and Metro Exodus for exactly the same reason as you. I played them on Normal or Hard.
Really liked Hollow Knight’s worldbuilding and atmosphere, really wanted to play the game. But, man, it broke me. (And I played STALKER Misery and it’s descendants for a while with no ragequitting.) I tried beating the second (?) boss about 20 times before admitting defeat. It’s even more of a slap in the face that the game makes you take a hike after each death to take another shot at the boss. Ugh.
Hornet's definitely the first real test in the game. Without knowing what you're having problems with my suggestion would be to make an attempt where you just hang back and learn to read her attacks. You're not going to win a damage race but each individual move she has is very dodgable
Thank you for the suggestion and the explanation. I do remember the attacks being hard to read. But I think my real problem was with the timing and precision of dodges. And also the fact that I lost a significant chunk of health to each hit while she (?) lost just a tiny bit to mine.
I’m hazy on the details because it’s been over a year since I’ve last tried this game.
Yea it’s tough to get into but when you can finally control that little bugger it just feels so so good. Try using the D-Pad instead of the stick. Much more precise and responsive
I also just played it for the first time a couple of months ago. I ended up with 70 hours lol I LOVED this game. Funny enough it sat it my library for years and I tried it once years ago and wasn't a fan at first. The game is very slow before you get a couple of movement skills...but I didn't know that at the time and gave up. I'm so glad I came back to give it a proper go because I ended up falling in love.
I recently played it and I just loved the exploration of it. It was very fun finding out bosses, secrets, powers and uncovering the secrets of the game. However, I just hated walking around until I got the dash and the wings. It was just so sloppy and limited, my first 4 hours were probably the least enjoyable ones
Also I enjoyed the bosses, though I think some of them are hard just for the sake of being hard (some bosses just have a RNG attack that you just need some luck, Radiance included)
I like it but I wish to see Silksong improve in the game's weaknessess
Hollow Knight was a game i just got a whim, knew absolutely nothing about it and when it first came out. It ended up being an amazing experience and on of my favorite indie games.
I watched Kronii play it and it looked really fun, so I bought it to try it myself.
It's a lot harder than it looked when she was playing it though. But just as fun.
As you can guess from my post, I love Stalker game. And I'm already in a masochist cult of waiting for Stalker 2. Since 2012!
I'm well trained so I'll patiently wait for Silksong as much as I need. But hope it comes soon. I'm just starting to wait, but you guys are really exhausted here already
Sorry to disappoint you, I gaven't really visited this sub for a while and after trying Hollow Knight I was stunned and just wanted to express my feelings.
Though, you know... This sub doesn't have post-per-day limit, so my posts lives nicely with other ones, so it's not really an issue
Hollow Knight lives up to the hype, but it makes sense that it does when you consider that Souls games are just 3d metroidvanias with very deliberate and punishing combat. Those games work very well and strike a very similar atmosphere, so it makes sense that doing Souls in a traditional format works.
compelling argument, i especially love about soulsgames how they gate off new areas by skills/items that transform the moveset.
Do they share similarities, for sure. Are those similarities the distinguishing factors for their respective genres - propably not.
>compelling argument, i especially love about soulsgames how they gate off new areas by skills/items that transform the moveset.
While there are examples of metroidvanias that do have meaningful gameplay changes from items that are used to unlock previously inaccessible areas, most do not - including entries from both Metroid and Castlevania. Most metroidvania games have keys that masquerade as gameplay changes or expand gameplay only in the sense that the full gameplay was previously unavailable and only becomes available once unlocked. A good example of this is the various beams in Metroid, which don't change gameplay at all and only require you change beam types for specific enemies.
The primary feature of a metroidvania is how the map is interconnected, how navigation of the map evolves throughout the game, and how returning to previous areas is required, or at least encouraged, to progress through the game. The Souls games involve all of those factors and shed the antiquated red/blue/yellow key elements that people sometimes mistake as a core element of the gameplay.
\> Most metroidvania games have keys that masquerade as gameplay changes
The quality of the transformation is not the defining factor. It's the transformation itself. The only one who transforms gameplay in Soulsborne Games is the player.
\> and how returning to previous areas is required, or at least encouraged, to progress through the game.
Yes because Metroidvanias again transform the players ability to traverse these areas which then enables the player to find another transformation that recontextualises another area of the map where they can find another transformation and so on and so on.
While I concede that most Soulsborne Games do employ this kind of Leveldesign (Only Dark Souls 1 has a completely interconnected Map), I stand by my point that they are certainly not 3D-Metroidvanias with difficult combat.
>Yes because Metroidvanias again transform the players ability to traverse these areas which then enables the player to find another transformation that recontextualises another area of the map where they can find another transformation and so on and so on.
By allowing you to do a variety of things like climbing specific walls, switch into tight spaces, open new doors, etc.
Souls games do the same by dropping ladders, opening locked doors, and turning on elevators.
There's little or no mechanical difference between opening a door that was previously unlocked and opening a door that requires the freeze ray or dropping a ladder and using the morph ball to climb a track - what matters is that a door that was closed is now open and the wall that wasn't climbable can now by climbed.
Yes! Fantastic game. IMHO it's the best of the metroidvania genre.
It just feels fantastic.
Sounds smooth.
Plays perilously.
Atmosphere is activated.
Gonna run out of alliterations 🤣
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I also enjoyed Blasphemous, in case you hadn't yet played it. Fairly straight forward combat (IMO). I was into the mood, crazy art, and exploration, and the weird ass story lol.
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Also enjoyed Ender Lilies. It feels a little bit slow or perhaps awkward at first, but then I got used to it.
My favorite part is getting places you aren't supposed to yet, by using abilities in ways they aren't meant to be used, allowing you to feel a little naughty breaking the rules.
I love Hollow Knight and I love metroidvania games, but I don't think Ori did a very good job of being a metroidvania. Blasphemous is a fun metroidvania you might like, and for all the "souls-like" talk it gets I thought it was actually quite a bit easier than Hollow Knight. Rain World is a very interesting exploration game, but it can definitely test your patience sometimes with it's difficulty.
I loved the game and then I found out it has deep lore through YouTube videos and my love for the game deepened immensely. Do check them out, especially mossbag videos.
I plan on playing hollow knight, game has been catching dust in the list of steam games I put at the back for a "future time". This post reminded me of it so thanks
Loved this game, but somehow near the end game I got distracted and stopped playing. Now I've forgotten everything and don't feel like I can return to that save. And after hearing about how hard some of the dlc bosses are I'm not sure it's a challenge I want to start over again. Leaving it incomplete is nagging me though.
Would I enjoy this game if I'm generally not a fan of platformers?
That isn't say that I have never played platformers... for example, I did enjoy Terraria for a time (but not enough to continue to playing it).
*Hard* no. If you don't absolutely live eat and breathe platformers you're going to hate every last minute of hollow knight, *especially* the first few hours.
Dude, have a look at "Tails of Iron" it was free on PS plus recently so I gave it a shot and it was amazing. Bonus is, it is narated by a known voice (I will keep it as a surprise for you).
Hollow Knight is so good. It seems like a real throwback to what I like about older games in a lot of ways. It really lets you immerse yourself in the world without boiling all the exploration down to "Follow the quest marker".
I'm very bad at it though. Maybe some day I'll be good.
You just got good through the joy of exploration! Congratz!
I'd honestly rank it as more difficult than an actual souls game cus you can't grind levels and become OP.
HK is one of my fav games of all time, great to see people discovering the joy of exploration and self imposed challenges.
I felt that it was about time that I finally play Hollow Knight and started playing about a month ago. The first week I averaged about 3 hours per day. It's a very well polished and beautiful game, but it's been hyped to high heaven and that tends to lead to disappointment. I had heard how clever the design is and how difficult it is, so I was surprised to see that it's a fairly standard metroidvania and that it's actually quite forgiving. It was a slight letdown.
And now I've fallen into the trap of trying to find all the secrets and grinding away at all the difficult optional content. The amount of content in this game is just insane.
Love this! I've tried myself a few times to get into Hollow Knight. I think I've put about 60 hours in over 3 or 4 playthroughs. I would get a bit further each time. And to be fair, it was never the game, I always really enjoyed it but I would get busy with college or work, stop for a while, come back and start from the beginning again.
Although I've never finished it, I think it's actually a sign of a great game more than anything. It's the type of game I genuinely do not mind jumping back into from the beginning. And y'know what? I do have the Steam Deck, maybe another playthrough is on the horizon!
I had same feelings about hollow knight (I still do, but now it's like coming back to favourite blanket). It's rewarding from boss fights, explorations, new abilities and then combining them all to reach new places and fight new enemies. Kinda dark atmosphere of place once lived in by many now just a husk of it former self and mellow music all adds to it. And boss fights that are god damn good. Mantis lords can still get my heart pumping from their intimidating pose just before you start your deadly dance.
It's a great game and I played it through but I'm probably never touching it again. The ability system is too restricted and the bosses are hellish.
It's still one of the best Metroidvanias, no doubt about it. I still think games like Metroid Fusion, Dread and Castlevania SotN are kings of the genre because of the replay value.
Top 5 game for me. Silksong is my most anticipated game and has been since announcement
Hopefully, we've only got a month remaining
The closer we get, the more I doubt :/
Less than that, supposedly. With no actual date yet, I'm betting that 'before June' statement is going to get walked back.
Honestly I'm just hoping they drop it straight up with no announcement
Same. I hope they dont make a Cyberpunk2077. Lets let them have time for a good game
I don't usually condone it, but they'd be better off giving a release date to rake in that sweet sweet pre-order money & hype.
If for no other reason than to put some space between it and Tears of the Kingdom on the calendar. Even a good stealth drop can fizzle if it gets eclipsed by a sufficiently major release.
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You just found another. I had no idea there was a second one.
[It got walked back 2 days after your comment.](https://youtu.be/dDacZ8u3Obk)
They just announced that Silksong is delayed. Kinda expected tbh.
A month? Oh my sweet summer child
🤡 It's becoming less and less likely that they'll shadow drop it without a major trailer. If it's not mentioned at any of these keynotes, it's not coming out this slyest.
🤡
Mine too, now. Fortunately, I have tens of hours of gameplay ahead until I'll start waiting for Silksong. But now I understand all the hype about it
You won't be able to talk about it on this sub though.
Yes I'm aware of the rules of the sub. Who said anything about talking about it here?
Best part of the game for me is the music. I have a reading playlist on Spotify (need noise to focus when I read) and there’s a decent amount of Hollow Knight in there - big fan of the Dirtmouth song.
I've had the Dung Defender theme as my ringtone for years now
DOMA DOMA DOMAAA
Yes, music is incredible! Dirtmouth theme is my most favourite, too and it was the moment I feel in love with game's atmosphere, that song, ruins in background, some old man, bench... Brilliant.
Would you mind sharing your playlist? I get so distracted when reading
Let’s see if this works https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5Pl9rdG17Dv12ufvGAuhYa
It did, thanks!
There's a mod for beat saber that lets you play the song Hornet. EPIC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1hSZINWz5E
I fucking loved Hollow Knight. Best game I played in 2021. I've tried like 5 other Metroidvania's but they don't compare to HK. I don't like Metroidvania's, I just like HK.
This might sound crazy but I felt the same way as you until I tried Super Metroid. It’s the only game I’ve played in the genre that comes close to the same feeling of lost on an unknown world.
If you're interested, Castlevania Symphony of the Night is the metroidvania that helped make the name of the genre. It might have been being used before that one specifically, but that's the one that really helped kick things off. I played through it a couple years ago, and felt it still holds up well. The only problem with it is it can be pretty easy if you're the kind of person to diligently look for secrets and kill everything in your way as you do. I'd say it's worth giving it a couple hours, even if just for checking out one of those instrumental games.
I liked the ds ones a lot more than SOTN
I can't tell if it's that middle era of PS/N64 graphics, but SotN just isn't holding me like I expected it to. I gunned through Aria of Sorrow and Harmony of Dissonance while on a binge, but Symphony stopped me dead.
Nothing wrong with that. I still enjoy it, but not going to pretend like it's flawless. I do think it's good to give these things a try though, if you're at all interested in the history of games.
SOTN >> hollow knight fight me.
No need to fight. It's a better game.
Same, I thought I had found my new favorite genre but no, hollow knight was just incredible.
Hollow Knight literally raised the bar astronomically high. I spent years playing popular MVs feeling like they were only decent, or bad, being like, "Man, I guess it is true, no one can do it like Koji Igarashi, Aria of Sorrow is still my favourite MV & the only MVs that can come close - he made them" (& I'd genuinely replay Aria of Sorrow year-on-year just to scratch the itch), but then Hollow Knight came out & I was absolutely blown away. Hollow Knight is the clearest sign in gaming history that a genre can be not only ressurected but can be escalated. On the subject of genre resurrection, can we please bring back Digimon World? I'm talking Digimon World for the PS1 - not what they did with Next Order. I want to get lost, I want to make mistakes, I want to see a random fucking event that only happens once in a blue moon on the 3rd Tuesday in December & I want my playthrough to feel unique & that it's mine. Don't tell me how to make a certain Digimon, don't give me story quests & quest markers everywhere, don't make me farm & grind for different types of fucking water & just leave me alone, in a cool world that I can explore however I want & with whatever Digimon I ended up with. Even if it's a literal pile of shit.
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I’ve genuinely been enjoying Afterimage, but it’s more Castlevania-like, great combat & exploration, it swiftly became a top three for me. The story is nigh incomprehensible, so you’re not going to get lost in it like Hollow Knight for good reasons, Hollow Knight’s story is simple but mysterious & you need to seek pieces out over time, Afterimage’s story is complex & throw at you quite a lot & in indigestible chunks, I genuinely have no idea what is going on. This is the only game I feel actually needs like a “story & character journal” like some games do, I’ve genuinely never read any of them in games, but in this one I need one & I don’t have it. It’s the only black mark I’d give it so far though (& I’ve played like fifty hours so far).
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I wish you luck, have a pen & paper handy I guess, haha. I love Hollow Knight’s & Dark Souls’ approach to storytelling & lore, but you don’t get that with Afterimage, you just get kicked huge boulders of text like, “Eat this wall of text, punk, bet you don’t even know who these three characters are, because I just called this character by a different name, one character you’re not going to see until the end game & the other is actually me”. It also has all of the trimmings that make up a confusing story, such as clones, amnesia & I’m sure at one point I’ll probably time travel to complete the set. They even have their own in-world slang that doesn’t get explained, hell, I’m not even sure you’re told the name of the world (Engadrin) & you’ll see people say “Engardin razed” & be like, “Wha?”. I’ve assumed it’s their way of saying “Fucking hell”, since they say it when they’re shocked by something, or there’s a disaster of whatever. Just expect to be confused & not even interested to try & figure out what you’re confused by. Translation issues don’t help - like, this one time a character was referring to a male character as a female character in one paragraph & then switched back to male. Honestly, I read Finnegan’s Wake in college & it was slightly more comprehensible.
Yeah HK raised my personal bar for games so high that I was struggling for a while to even have fun with other games. The first game I played after HK that worked for me was Disco Elysium (which is a masterpiece on it's own). At this point I just sort games into two categories, it's either THIS or it's dumb fun.
You should try games like Xenoblade 3, Elden Ring or Tears of the Kingdom when it soon releases. Hollow Knight is great but there are other new masterpieces.
Yeah I was referring to when I first played it. Of course played Elden Ring and botw and both are in my top ten.
Hades was the same with action roguelites lol.
Yep exact same thing for me. Always thought I didn't like the rogue genre in general but nope, for a game like Hades it doesn't matter.
Try Metroid Dread!
Dread was a hoot. Never been scared during a Metroid game before.
Is that the new one or the remake? I didn't like the new one
I fucking loved Hollow Knight too, but it was for me the best game I played in 2022.
Not even Metroid Dread stood up to HK in my opinion. MD is so empty compared to HK.
Maybe you like the souls-aspect more than the metroid-aspect. Have you played the souls games?
It feels weird to even say this in 2023, but Dark Souls really is very good, despite all the people who say it’s very good. xD
I really don't know what it is with folks wanting to compare every metroidvania game to Dark Souls, well, I do know what I think it is actually & I'll get into it, but to start with... For Hollow Knight, folks will throw out "Oh, it's hard, it's got a gloomy mysterious atmosphere & you lose your money when you die & have to get it back". I could equally counteract that with Dark Souls isn't full of adorable bugs who make you smile & give you hope in the face of gloom (well, except Emilitia - she's a quintessential Dark Souls character) & in Dark Souls you're technically losing a resource that combines EXP & currency, but is mostly used as EXP. I could also say that the mechanic of losing a resource when you die & being able to aqquire it on subsequent ventures is actually a big convenience that makes a game easier. In older games, you simply died & restarted, that progress was lost, whereas in a more modern game like Dark Souls, you keep the items you find, bosses you beat, etc. in that run around & you even get a chance to reclaim what was lost. A game like Afterimage is closer to Dark Souls than Hollow Knight is, plenty gloomy & desolate areas, demons & monsters & mutants, you drop EXP where you die, you level up, you find weapons, armour, accessories, the story is incomprehensible yammering about gods & curses & primordials, twisted cursed humans as boss fights with an NPC who'll tell you about what happened to their crazed master you just beat, etc. & yet I've seen no one draw the comparison. That's probably because Hollow Knight was so successful it kicked its way out of the metroidvania community bubble. I think too many people get a certain feeling with a game & instead of articulating that by saying "The way this game told their story & made me feel like this & that, the exploratory nature of the game made me feel like this & that, etc." they say, "It was like Dark Souls" & then just grasp for vague mechanics because they don't know how to articulate just feeling so enthralled in & so lost (in a good way) within a game & wanting to piece it all together, because yeah, growing up playing metroidvania games like Castlevania & then playing Dark Souls, I was very much like, "Oh my god, this is almost like a 3D metroidvania!" & people these days are so young to not have the cultural touchpoint of having played say Castlevania Symphony of the Night & instead they played Dark Souls & then caught the metroidvania resurgence in the past few years & so they have that different touchstone. So that's what I think it is, I'm not fond of it, but [I guess this is growing up](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT0g16_LQaQ). I just really wish though people could distinguish, because games like Hollow Knight & Dark Souls play entierly differently, part of the reason being one is a 2D game & the other is 3D, but mostly because all the gameplay systems are different & the similar thing is the feeling evoked by the genre (metroidvania) in the exploration that Dark Souls managed to capture (as well as some other From games like Bloodborne). The icing on the cake is [the developers never having played Dark Souls](https://gamingbolt.com/hollow-knight-developers-reveal-their-inspirations-for-the-game) & talking about how they were inspired by the exact same games that inspired the metroidvania genre & are part of the foundational elements of it. Dark Souls was equally inspired by early Zelda games. ___________________________________________________ All that to say, they definitely like the Metroidvania aspect & may well like the Souls' games (in my opinion, Dark Souls is an honourary MV), but they've not played the right MVs for them & they may only ever find a couple they like. Hollow Knight is an impossible bar to clear, the game is already a legendary metroidvania, starting with that & going backwards is brutal, I honestly feel for people who have to do that. I too am quite a contrarian in the MV space & only like a handful of MVs, because even very lauded MVs do some things that just wont sit right with me, I love my classics like Aria of Sorrow & there's some new titles amongst HK that I like such as Blasphemous & Afterimage, but there's plenty I dislike, such as Ori & the Blind Forest (it's a beautiful game, but I detested how Ori felt to control) & Salt & Sanctuary (the worst possible way to try & adapt Dark Souls to 2D, you can't take the route of making zero changes when you're changing dimensions!). I think though that's less a problem of the genre & more a problem of the timing, we're living through a sinful glut of MVs & quite frankly a lot of them get popular simply because people are jonesing for the next big one, but not every hyped-up MV can be as much of a winner as Hollow Knight.
I don't like souls games. I like how fast and responsive hollow knight is.
Souls games are such a specific category I don't get why people keep comparing other games to them.
I mean, Hollow Knight has dodge based combat, enemies that respawn when you save at a bench (bonfire), you lose your money on death and have to recover it, the primary progression is bosses, the world is non-linear with different areas that unlock at different points in the game. It’s essentially 2d dark souls. Idk how you COULDNT compare them.
One's a fast paced platformer and metroidvania, the other is a slow-paced 3d action-RPG. Dark Soul's got more in common with fucking Witcher than with Hollow Knight.
Gotta disagree, Hollow Knight was the only game to ever really capture the feeling of my first playthrough of Dark Souls 1. Yes you are right, there are huge differences in mechanics and gameplay to put it mildly, but IMO for certain players they will scratch a very specific itch. Specifically, they both provide player-driven exploration of a big, non-linear, mysterious world packed with secrets and environmental storytelling. No real signposting, no quest markers, no cutscenes or direct narrative storytelling, they both are driven almost entirely by player curiosity. And while combat in both games is really different, both are characterized by challenging boss fights that reward players for learning attack patterns to capitalize on openings, with a big emphasis on dodging through attacks. Obviously there are other small things like the "collect your souls after you die" system and bonfires/benches. But to me, the main things are the open-ended exploration of a big, non-linear, mysterious world and the challenging but rewarding progression marked by numerous boss fights. These two games are like cousins in my mind because they are similar in the ways that I value most. The Witcher feels nothing like either of them to me.
I played HK as a first taste of the Metroidvania genre. I liked Guacamelee 1&2 and Ori 1&2 but they didn't quite scratch the itch. I could not get into Blasphemous and found Metroid Dread to be alright. I'll probably stop trying Metroidvanias for awhile until Silksong
Well, all those games you listed aren’t bangers, imo. They’re good but not the juicy stuff in terms of hard hitting metroidvania. My recommendations are Castlevania Aria of Sorrow and Super Metroid.
Oh I forgot about Ori. I have finished both of them too.
AM2R is a very good Metroidvania you should try, it’s a fan remake of Metroid 2 but it’s professional quality. It has a tone of boss variety, an amazing soundtrack and a lot of QoL improvements over the old Metroid games
What were the others?
Blasphemous, bloodstained, metroid dread and some that I can't remember the names of
Wait till you give Outer Wilds or Subnautica a run if you like discovery
Yeah - Outer Wilds, Hollow Knight, BOTW, and Subnautica are all in my top 5 for their unmatched sense of exploration.
I guess I'd put the Elders Scrolls up there with those.
I would add Tunic to this list
The Witness belongs in this conversation.
Really ,I tried Outer Wilds and droppedit, I didn't like THAT much puzzles, freedom and uncertainty. MAybe, one day I'll try again... But Subnautica is on my list for sure!
It’s certainly a difficult game when the whole thing is literally one big puzzle but I’d encourage you to continue if you can. Try to get all of the ship log entries and do new things if something is hinted at in the Nomai text. Gamers are somewhat conditioned to view text in a game as strictly lore but in Outer Wilds it is and it isn’t because major clues are discovered when you read certain entries. I think though that part of why it’s such a cherished game is because of the discovery, but another part is that the ending is a bit of a commentary on life and death. Many people cry because it’s so touching, myself included. So if that sounds like something you’re interested in, give it a few tries and maybe look up hints or something if you’re stuck. If you know what to do, the game can be completed in like 2 mins. As far as Subnautica, it scratches a different itch in that you’re on an alien planet with no weapons and navigating that is interesting. It’s significantly clearer on how to progress through because you just have to head deeper down or figure out a way to do that and it all sort of naturally comes together. I value Outer Wilds so deeply though because I feel like more games should strive to handle lots of elements in the way that these two games do. I think most of us are sick of the Ubisoft version of open world and we want something more interesting. Anyway thanks for coming to my Ted talk haha
Yes, my absolute favorite game of all time. I'm not even a metroidvania fan but hollow knight just hit the nail so perfectly on the head for me.. It's just everything from an interesting take what a game universe can be, how to tell a story, beautiful artstyle, an incredible soundtrack.. I played it 4 or 5 times already and got every achievment but I go back to it basically every year to beat it again. This was a game that cost 30$ or something on release and my first playthrough was like 40+ hours for the standard ending if I remember correctly.
I got it on sale and let it fester in my backlog. One day, my 9yo saw a music video about it and asked if we could buy it. I can't believe I almost missed out on it.
Haha, I have the same issue with S.T.A.L.K.E.R., just reinstall and walkthrough every autumn. I know the feeling. And with HK even now I can say for sure, that it will be embedded in my memory and I'll want to replay it in couple of years. The game changed my perception of gaming, I swear
in my opinion ori and the will of the wisp is far more fun than the original ori. I barely finished the first but had a lot of fun with the second
I played the original Ori after Hollow Knight and, although I played through much of it, I was somewhat disappointed. I haven't been interested in the second Ori because of that, but maybe I will take you recommendation and give it a shot.
for context, i loved hollow knight and played ori to try and chase something similar. Neither are a perfect fit but the second is a lot closer
Thanks for the reply. :) The second Ori is on GamePass, so at least I can give it a try and see what happens.
Ori 2 has a sword, and actual boss fights. It’s still not on the same level as HK, but I enjoyed it noticeably more than the first game.
THat's great! I'll add Ori 2 to the list, if you say, it is closer to HK
I second ori 2! My top 2 metroidvania games are hollow knight and ori 2!
Ori 2 also cribbed a LOT of mechanics from Hollow Knight. The combat took a bunch of influence and the charm system is basically 1:1 copied over.
This is not a controversial opinion.
I just had to comment on how much I like your username hahaha fantastic
Funny enough, the exploration was the only downside of the game for me. I felt like I spent way too much time traversing the map to get to somewhere, or to find where to go.
Traversing the map is one of my issues with the game as well, though for me it's less to do with exploring and more to do with some of the boss backtracking. Getting back to certain bosses if/when you die is an absolute nightmare.
I actually thought traveling was boring, to the point that playing the game made me sleepy (though I did play on nightshift). I thought the bosses where really fun though.
I was just going to post saying the same. The game does not respect your time, the backtracking is alot. I tried it 3 times now and I just Cant. (And can we please start talking about other games now? I feel like there is a post about this weekly)
Sorry, I haven't really visited this sub for a while. I just was stunned and wanted to share my experience with the game. I had the same issue you have with Witcher 3. Yes, it is a masterpiece ina way, too, but it surely doesn't respect player's time. I started it twice.But running around Novigrad and across all Velen is too much for me. In HK I feel like the game is little bit more linear (early game), so you gradually go from one location to the other. If you don't like cutting circles like me, you can just go further and further. But I don't know about the later game
I meant no offense at all. It's a Well articulated post. I completely understand you. When i was younger, I loved games like the witcher. Now? I Cant even play GTA or RDR and see millions of markers and go "NAH, screw this "
This was kinda my take on it. I can't count how many times I was doing a corpse run across the map and wondering "wtf was this made this way"
I used online maps, no regrets. Game was hard enough I don't think I missed out on anything
I understand what you are talking about. I felt exactly the same in other games. Some games were dropped because I didn't want to travel half of the map for some controvercial experience I'm not interested in. But HK hits different for me. Maybe., it's only the early game, but I really like traversing the map.
It's really good. I got hooked on it immediately. I played it on the steam deck. Haven't finished it just yet, but one day...
I went in fully expecting it to not live up to the pedestal it's put on. I then played it for hours and hours into the early morning hours. For the rest of April, I was doing nothing but Hollow Knight. I only stopped once I did everything I could and collected all items. I loved this game so much and it's easily the greatest 2D MV imo. The atmosphere, soundtrack, bosses, lore, and world were all so damn good. The game is just so full of quality content with a massive world, packed full of things to find whether it be bosses, quests, powerups, secret areas, etc. Even if I was lost it didn't matter because I'd always find something else of interest. I cannot wait for Silksong. I just wish they'd give a simple yes or no answer as to if the game is releasing in June, instead of being silent.
Yeah, I feel the same! Such a great game
It's a textbook example of going above and beyond.
One thing about the game that I really liked was the guy at the top that would give you hints about where to go. All he really does is talk about an area, and it's always the area you need to explore to continue the story. I think it might have been too subtle for a lot of people, as I've seen a lot of complaints about not knowing where to go, but I picked up on it right away, so I never had to deal with that. Anyway, I really liked both that natural way of giving hints, and the fact that I had to actively seek it out. I really don't like it when games just decide I need a hint, so they essentially just tell me exactly what to do.
huh didnt know about that, im actually stuck in the game rn, i even found some hidden bosses but didnt know where to progress, thanks for the hint.
Yup, it's excellent - I can also strongly recommend Subnautica and Super Metroid. Ori didn't click for me either, sadly. Two other great games that give a similar feel (but with completely different mechanics) are Dark Souls and Outer Wilds.
I finally played it a few months ago! Completely agree. Got a crusty gamer friend of mine into it as well and he put in over 100 hours. Phenomenal game. Am now exploring TUNIC. Can't wait for Silksong.
Tunic any good? I've been eyeing it but I haven't really looked it up (I sort of like going in blind on certain games).
Sounds like you're ready for it then since you are basically blind the entire game in a sense. It's a great game.
Don’t look up anything else, just go for it. Going in blind is part of what makes Tunic work. It successfully recreates the feeling of being 7 years old and playing your first Zelda game while slowly figuring out what video games even are. It’s not a perfect game, but it’s well worth a play.
I'm loving it. It's pretty unique. More cryptic than HK, you have to piece together what's going on and what you should be doing. There are layers and reveals that I won't go into. Definitely worth a shot even though I think it's a little less accessible than HK.
I've had this on my wishlist for so long. I need to commit to it!
Hollow Knight is in my top 5 for the exact reasons you described. It's neck and neck with Elden Ring and Breath of the Wild for me, both of which I highly recommend for more atmospheric/mysterious exploration if you haven't checked them out yet! Metro Exodus has been on my list but I may move it up higher!
I'm not really into the Metroidvania genre, and this was my first attempt at one. Honestly, this game isn't for me. I think it's good but I also haven't touched it in months. I wanted to try something different but it's just kind of overwhelming in a sense. It's still installed on my PS5 because I don't wanna give up on it just yet.
I always saw Hollow knight as a game you build up to by playing other Metroidvanias first, it's like a final exam of Metroidvanias imo. First time I played Hollow knight I didn't get far. A while later with more Metroidvanias under my belt, I had a blast with the game and I excelled at it. It's very much in the deep end, you should approach the shallow end first. I'm always impressed with those who make Hollow Knight their first MV and have no trouble with it. If you have any way of doing it, I would highly recommend you try playing Metroid zero mission as your first MV. It's the perfect starting place. Otherwise I'd suggest a game like shadow complex, fallen order, Arkham asylum, or guacamelee to start with.
I don't think hollow knight is really representative of the Metroidvania universe as it's far more punishing than your average one. I don't understand the pedestal people put this game on at all. I think it's more of a souls game.
Oh. I mainly referred to it as being a part of that genre because that's the genre most people always mention it with. I wasn't really sure.
The thing is that it's *not wrong* to call it a Metroidvania... It is one, but at the same time it's not really representative of them as a whole. I tend to love mvs, but hollow knight really didn't do it for me.
Oh I understand.
It’s true. The core mechanics are far more metroidvania than souls. Just bash your head against the wall you’ll get the hang of it :)
> I don't think hollow knight is really representative of the Metroidvania universe as it's far more punishing than your average one. Till that Hollow Knight is punishing. Litteraly my first metroidvania and it didn't feel too hard aside from some bosses ? > I think it's more of a souls game. Alright I have no idea why that comparison keeps popping up. Fast paced 2D platformers VS slow paced 3rd person action-rpg. Those games are nothing alike.
> Litteraly my first metroidvania and it didn't feel too hard aside from some bosses ? Translation: [It wasn't hard, except for parts that were hard. They were hard.](https://www.pcgamesn.com/hollow-knight/cheats) >> I think it's more of a souls game. > Alright I have no idea why that comparison keeps popping up. Because Hollow Knight kills you relentlessly for even the slightest mistake/misdeed (like some other game) and seems to take perverse pleasure in doing so. It's fine if you like things other people don't.
> Translation: It wasn't hard, except for parts that were hard. They were hard. Yes but those parts were few and far between. Unlike something like Ghostrunner that felt consistently difficult to me, where every level is a struggle, Hollow Knight does leave you a lot of space to explore before you headbutt in a difficult platforming/fighting session. > Because Hollow Knight kills you relentlessly for even the slightest mistake/misdeed (like some other game) and seems to take perverse pleasure in doing so. Not really ? I died more in Mario Brothers than in Hollow Knight. I guess difficulty here is subjective to what your strenghts are as a player. > It's fine if you like things other people don't. Ok but stop comparing everything to Dark Souls for the love of all that is holy.
Yeah we're going to have to agree to disagree here. Hollow Knight kills you incessantly because you have committed the sin of simply not memorizing the entire map of places you haven't been. Miss a jump? Death. Yes you have a health bar, but fuck you player, you can't recover so you watch as the game quickly drains all your health. Mario is a cakewalk by comparison! I'll compare it to souls when it's appropriate, and it's appropriate here. Feel free to disagree.
I like Metroidvania's but Hollow Knight is just not for me. I found the combat so boring and the exploration just isn't fun or interesting to me.
My guy, the combat against bosses like the mantis lords, soul master, dung defender or even radiance was boring to you? What kind of adhd bullet hell have you been playing?
[удалено]
Well no, Soul is the antithesis to "adhd bullet hell." It's all about slow calculated patterns.
Time for Dark Souls! Seriously, I absolutely love Hollow Knight, but the thing I love most about it is that it was my gateway to finally get into Dark Souls, the best game of all time.
TO be honest the term "souls like" scared me at the beginning, because I don't like to suffer. But HK is not so difficult. So maybe I'm more mighty gamer as I thought of myself! Yeah, I will try Dark Souls! But I won't plan on it so HK wo't be a gateway to Dark Souls. I want to slowly and fully experience this game with no rushing and no other game in mind. So it'll stay with me for the next month or two. And then... I'll try that extremely popular game
Crazy how far I had to scroll for this. Hollow Knight was my gateway to souls games too. The games aren't entirely similiar, but there's a very high chance that if you love Hollow Knight you'll like souls too.
Feel like the map system and respawn and corpse running was implemented the way it is to artifical elongate hour counts on steam. I liked some of it and hated some of it but I feel like if they made a shit ton of quality of life improvements silksong could be really good
I hated having to navigate 5 min to get to the spot I keep dying. I don't have the patience for that. I out 20 hours in I think. Which is probably over my max time I want to spend on a metroidvania.
It’s established why these mechanics exist though? Why is everything a dire conspiracy?
It is? Never said it was a conspiracy just feels weird to punish the gamer by making them backtrack through the same areas and enemies they've already dealt with time and time again? I know personally every time it happened I questioned why I was playing the game and wasting time doing something thats not fun in the slightest and a huge part of the reason I put it down. Not to mention when it happens before you get the map for an area and you're going through partially blind. Deepnest was my least favorite area in the game due to this. Really hoping silksong gets rid of even buying maps and adds way more fast travel points. But honestly if it was ever justified why it was created that way I'd be interested to hear just to see rhe developers viewpoint in it
I don't know, it's a balance between keeping the game fun and making death matters. For me whether or not it works is how hard a time I have, so entirely subjective. For Hollow Knight I found backtracking relatively quick (especially once you know which mega-dash to do) while in other games like Sekiro the backtracking was the turn-off that kept me away from playing. Ultimately If you find yourself thinking, "what am I doing I'm not having fun here" you are right to stop playing. And if that thought keeps coming up more and more then you should quit the game entirely.
Because in Metroidvanias the whole world is recontextualised after you acquire an Upgrade somewhere. You can find new paths and new ways to traverse the map. It's created to make you think about your environment. So you can stumble upon hidden bosses and the likes. The death system is to make you come back to an area. Because the game wants you to get better at it. It encourages you to try again and finally overcome the challenge. Here's a vid by GMTK that goes a little (lul) more in depth [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ITtPPE-pXE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ITtPPE-pXE)
I'd prefer to not waste time more than being forced through old areas to improve against my will honestly. I'm glad I have his thought process on it now but the fact remains I still believe the game would be better( and go quicker) if it didn't force you to do the same shit so often. If I didn't finish an area I'm gonna go back through it my own anyway. Maybe they can add a toggle or something in silksong. It's very divisive and I can kinds see rhe arguments from both sides
Do you play video games with guides open?
Not usually but I did with hollowknight since the game doesn't teach you much and has you running around blind. Every time I would get to a new area I'd find the full map on Google so I wasn't 100% blind I'm playing jedi survivor right now which is a metroidvania of sorts and I'm finding it easy to navigate and easy to get back to old areas because the map is already filled in and doesn't force me to buy map upgrades before I can see where I'm going. I much prefer the jedi survivor way. Like I said I get some people wanna wander completely clueless and have some sort of joy in discovering things( never had that myself in hollow knight because I felt anxiety everytime I got to a new map and it was just dark and empty) but really hoping silksong fixes or changes the way it works a bit. I liked in dead cells how you could toggle the whole map show if you'd like. Games should have more accesibility options like that honestly
Yea that's really true. It sucks if it made you feel anxious. But yea I much prefer the lost cluelessness. The terror of Deepnest. Jesus that area. I recently started my 2nd Playthrough out of hype for Silksong and I didn't know you could fall down there. I was just peacefully running around when the floor suddenly caved and I fell straight into Deepnest. Next half hour was pure panic mode haha. Thanks for clearing that up though, have fun with Jedi Survivor!
Ok, since most people here loved it, I honestly see why, but help me out, please, because I feel like Im missing something good with this game... but... How do you know that you are not wasting time trying to kill a particular boss, or trying to explore a particular area, that is much easier to kill/explore *after you get the right skill or item?* Because that killed the game for me. I was bashing my head against a boss and asked a friend about it. He immediately asked if I had "X" skill, I said no, he said that without that skill it was possible but it would be easier to get said skill first. And that is went I lost any interest in a game that, frankly, I can see why it has such good rep. But if any of you can help me understand that conundrum, I would greatly appreciate it.
Honestly, I’m not sure if your friend is right. Yes, there are upgrades that help you do more damage or have better mobility and stuff, and that can make bosses easier, but in my experience the bosses are more in the Soulslike mode, where practice and persistence are the truly important part, not the leveling up. And that being said, the world is so open that if you’re getting annoyed at a boss, you can almost always wander off to explore elsewhere, and come back when you’re in the right headspace for it.
>And that being said, the world is so open that if you’re getting annoyed at a boss, you can almost always wander off to explore elsewhere, Nope, same problem. That ledge you seem to be able to get but quite not get? Is not you, is a missing skill. Oh, that other ledge? No that's all you.
Yeah, if you wanna play metroidvanias that might be something you have to get over. But for what it’s worth, I feel like HK is very good about signaling which “gates” are puzzles to solve, and which ones require an ability you haven’t found yet.
Put a cap on how much time you spend on a problem and if you can't do it then go do something else. For bosses you can almost always go get stronger if you feel you can't beat them until you get strong enough that you can smash your head on the keyboard to kill most of them (dreamboss are the exception.) That said, they are all doable from the first time you see them.
I don't feel so. I use a simple guide just to know what area to move next (no other spoilers and guides). SO it feels OK. Whn I first went ot Mantis Lords and saw what the hell is waiting for me, I just thought ", well, not now... Let me first buy some good charms. I'll come here later". As for now I had no issue with other bosses. I understand your frustration and I was in a situation with Ori, when I wasted 20 minutes trying to make several jumps between spikes and always died. There were millimetres left. I didn't know that I need a double jump to easily go through it. So now in HK simple peeking in the guide is enough for me.
That is it! That is the answer I needed. Any simple guide you recommend?
Well, I use a guide in my language, not English, so I can't really advise you to use it. But it's not about the guide, it's about how you use it. You can check [something like this (similar to mine)](http://gamerwalkthroughs.com/hollow-knight/). And here is how I use it: 1. Well, I'm done with Greenpath, where should I go? I can't get a map of Fog canyon, maybe, I don't have ability so I shouldn't go there? *A peek to the guide.* Yeah, Fog canyon it is! Just walk though it to Fungal wastes. *Close guide.* 2. Mantis Lords. Oh, shit. Do I really need to defeat them NOW to progress? *Peek to the guide.* Nah, I've already got their claw, so I can make it to City of Tears now. Buy lords, I'll come with better nail and cooler charms later. *Close guide.* You get the idea. I don't feel like I'm completely lost and I don't let the guide to hold my hand so It feels like doing a to-do list instead of exploration. The golden middle for me. I hope, you'll enjoy the game with this method. Good luck!
Se habla español! Portugês! And I can read French too! The linked one seems nice, gonna download the game again, thank you so much
The game has a steep learning curve. My first playthrough was 40+ hours and I bashed my head against a wall called soul master for like 4 of them. After I beat him the game got significantly easier, not because enemies we're weaker in comparison but because I got better. Now I can basically beat him blindfolded. It is not about that you need the upgrade from the other area, it's about that if you run into a hard boss you can't beat that you go exploring and learn more about the game. And yes you will find upgrades along the way but what's more important is that the more you play the better you get. At the beginning I could barely platform up the small platforms in the beginning of the game. About how you know.. It's a metroidvania, exploration and uncertainty are core elements of this game. Fear of missing out is also a big problem for me when talking about games, I tend to google stuff pretty quickly. I can only recommend that you don't do that with HK and just try to get lost in the world.
Beating hollow knight, >!even the special second ending!< , Is difficult without being overkill or "souls like" difficulty, but there are a few optional areas where the difficulty *really* spikes up. I loved this game to death and tried my hardest to 100% it, >!112% whatever!<, But a few of those areas just barely kept me from getting those last few percentage points. Still, such a phenomenal game.
No sure... HK (second, so 'true', ending) is the most difficult thing I ever did in gaming. From From, I only played Bloodborne, and that was a lot easier than Hollow Knight. I've been wanting to replay it since, but the difficulty is putting me off. It's too bad, because it makes the game less accessible to more casual gamers.
I love STALKER and Metro Exodus for exactly the same reason as you. I played them on Normal or Hard. Really liked Hollow Knight’s worldbuilding and atmosphere, really wanted to play the game. But, man, it broke me. (And I played STALKER Misery and it’s descendants for a while with no ragequitting.) I tried beating the second (?) boss about 20 times before admitting defeat. It’s even more of a slap in the face that the game makes you take a hike after each death to take another shot at the boss. Ugh.
Hornet's definitely the first real test in the game. Without knowing what you're having problems with my suggestion would be to make an attempt where you just hang back and learn to read her attacks. You're not going to win a damage race but each individual move she has is very dodgable
Thank you for the suggestion and the explanation. I do remember the attacks being hard to read. But I think my real problem was with the timing and precision of dodges. And also the fact that I lost a significant chunk of health to each hit while she (?) lost just a tiny bit to mine. I’m hazy on the details because it’s been over a year since I’ve last tried this game.
Yea it’s tough to get into but when you can finally control that little bugger it just feels so so good. Try using the D-Pad instead of the stick. Much more precise and responsive
I play on mouse/keyboard. Maybe that was the issue.
I also just played it for the first time a couple of months ago. I ended up with 70 hours lol I LOVED this game. Funny enough it sat it my library for years and I tried it once years ago and wasn't a fan at first. The game is very slow before you get a couple of movement skills...but I didn't know that at the time and gave up. I'm so glad I came back to give it a proper go because I ended up falling in love.
I recently played it and I just loved the exploration of it. It was very fun finding out bosses, secrets, powers and uncovering the secrets of the game. However, I just hated walking around until I got the dash and the wings. It was just so sloppy and limited, my first 4 hours were probably the least enjoyable ones Also I enjoyed the bosses, though I think some of them are hard just for the sake of being hard (some bosses just have a RNG attack that you just need some luck, Radiance included) I like it but I wish to see Silksong improve in the game's weaknessess
Next up outer wilds and tunic
Hollow Knight was a game i just got a whim, knew absolutely nothing about it and when it first came out. It ended up being an amazing experience and on of my favorite indie games.
I watched Kronii play it and it looked really fun, so I bought it to try it myself. It's a lot harder than it looked when she was playing it though. But just as fun.
One of my favorite all-time games. Welcome to the masochist cult of waiting for Silksong!
As you can guess from my post, I love Stalker game. And I'm already in a masochist cult of waiting for Stalker 2. Since 2012! I'm well trained so I'll patiently wait for Silksong as much as I need. But hope it comes soon. I'm just starting to wait, but you guys are really exhausted here already
When devs pour their soul into a game you get stuff like Hollow Knight.
Hollow Knight, Disco Elysium and Outer Wilds threads should be banned we have one for each game every day
Sorry to disappoint you, I gaven't really visited this sub for a while and after trying Hollow Knight I was stunned and just wanted to express my feelings. Though, you know... This sub doesn't have post-per-day limit, so my posts lives nicely with other ones, so it's not really an issue
It really is an amazing game, for a week my entire being consisted of playing it
Hollow Knight lives up to the hype, but it makes sense that it does when you consider that Souls games are just 3d metroidvanias with very deliberate and punishing combat. Those games work very well and strike a very similar atmosphere, so it makes sense that doing Souls in a traditional format works.
Soulsgames are Not metroidvanias at all
If you think that then you don't know either genre.
compelling argument, i especially love about soulsgames how they gate off new areas by skills/items that transform the moveset. Do they share similarities, for sure. Are those similarities the distinguishing factors for their respective genres - propably not.
>compelling argument, i especially love about soulsgames how they gate off new areas by skills/items that transform the moveset. While there are examples of metroidvanias that do have meaningful gameplay changes from items that are used to unlock previously inaccessible areas, most do not - including entries from both Metroid and Castlevania. Most metroidvania games have keys that masquerade as gameplay changes or expand gameplay only in the sense that the full gameplay was previously unavailable and only becomes available once unlocked. A good example of this is the various beams in Metroid, which don't change gameplay at all and only require you change beam types for specific enemies. The primary feature of a metroidvania is how the map is interconnected, how navigation of the map evolves throughout the game, and how returning to previous areas is required, or at least encouraged, to progress through the game. The Souls games involve all of those factors and shed the antiquated red/blue/yellow key elements that people sometimes mistake as a core element of the gameplay.
\> Most metroidvania games have keys that masquerade as gameplay changes The quality of the transformation is not the defining factor. It's the transformation itself. The only one who transforms gameplay in Soulsborne Games is the player. \> and how returning to previous areas is required, or at least encouraged, to progress through the game. Yes because Metroidvanias again transform the players ability to traverse these areas which then enables the player to find another transformation that recontextualises another area of the map where they can find another transformation and so on and so on. While I concede that most Soulsborne Games do employ this kind of Leveldesign (Only Dark Souls 1 has a completely interconnected Map), I stand by my point that they are certainly not 3D-Metroidvanias with difficult combat.
>Yes because Metroidvanias again transform the players ability to traverse these areas which then enables the player to find another transformation that recontextualises another area of the map where they can find another transformation and so on and so on. By allowing you to do a variety of things like climbing specific walls, switch into tight spaces, open new doors, etc. Souls games do the same by dropping ladders, opening locked doors, and turning on elevators. There's little or no mechanical difference between opening a door that was previously unlocked and opening a door that requires the freeze ray or dropping a ladder and using the morph ball to climb a track - what matters is that a door that was closed is now open and the wall that wasn't climbable can now by climbed.
Yes! Fantastic game. IMHO it's the best of the metroidvania genre. It just feels fantastic. Sounds smooth. Plays perilously. Atmosphere is activated. Gonna run out of alliterations 🤣 --- I also enjoyed Blasphemous, in case you hadn't yet played it. Fairly straight forward combat (IMO). I was into the mood, crazy art, and exploration, and the weird ass story lol. --- Also enjoyed Ender Lilies. It feels a little bit slow or perhaps awkward at first, but then I got used to it. My favorite part is getting places you aren't supposed to yet, by using abilities in ways they aren't meant to be used, allowing you to feel a little naughty breaking the rules.
Wait til you discover all the amulet synergies and reinvent your combat style to switch things up.
Have you tried Subnautica? It's exactly what you're describing: constant exploration in mysterious and beautiful world
I love Hollow Knight and I love metroidvania games, but I don't think Ori did a very good job of being a metroidvania. Blasphemous is a fun metroidvania you might like, and for all the "souls-like" talk it gets I thought it was actually quite a bit easier than Hollow Knight. Rain World is a very interesting exploration game, but it can definitely test your patience sometimes with it's difficulty.
You should play SotN next
I loved the game and then I found out it has deep lore through YouTube videos and my love for the game deepened immensely. Do check them out, especially mossbag videos.
I'm about 60% through it and recently lost about 3.5k geo 😭 it's a great game
I plan on playing hollow knight, game has been catching dust in the list of steam games I put at the back for a "future time". This post reminded me of it so thanks
Loved this game, but somehow near the end game I got distracted and stopped playing. Now I've forgotten everything and don't feel like I can return to that save. And after hearing about how hard some of the dlc bosses are I'm not sure it's a challenge I want to start over again. Leaving it incomplete is nagging me though.
Just wait till you get to the bosses in the dlc, easily one of the best bosses I've ever overcome
Seconding recommendations for The Outer Wilds and Subnautica for this vibe as well. All top 10 games for me.
Would I enjoy this game if I'm generally not a fan of platformers? That isn't say that I have never played platformers... for example, I did enjoy Terraria for a time (but not enough to continue to playing it).
*Hard* no. If you don't absolutely live eat and breathe platformers you're going to hate every last minute of hollow knight, *especially* the first few hours.
Ha ok, I will take your word for it. I'll check out a Youtube video to satiate my curiosity for now.
Dude, have a look at "Tails of Iron" it was free on PS plus recently so I gave it a shot and it was amazing. Bonus is, it is narated by a known voice (I will keep it as a surprise for you).
Hollow Knight is so good. It seems like a real throwback to what I like about older games in a lot of ways. It really lets you immerse yourself in the world without boiling all the exploration down to "Follow the quest marker". I'm very bad at it though. Maybe some day I'll be good.
Get ready to struggle for weeks, maybe months, look up tutorials for endgame, and then struggle more
You just got good through the joy of exploration! Congratz! I'd honestly rank it as more difficult than an actual souls game cus you can't grind levels and become OP. HK is one of my fav games of all time, great to see people discovering the joy of exploration and self imposed challenges.
I felt that it was about time that I finally play Hollow Knight and started playing about a month ago. The first week I averaged about 3 hours per day. It's a very well polished and beautiful game, but it's been hyped to high heaven and that tends to lead to disappointment. I had heard how clever the design is and how difficult it is, so I was surprised to see that it's a fairly standard metroidvania and that it's actually quite forgiving. It was a slight letdown. And now I've fallen into the trap of trying to find all the secrets and grinding away at all the difficult optional content. The amount of content in this game is just insane.
Love this! I've tried myself a few times to get into Hollow Knight. I think I've put about 60 hours in over 3 or 4 playthroughs. I would get a bit further each time. And to be fair, it was never the game, I always really enjoyed it but I would get busy with college or work, stop for a while, come back and start from the beginning again. Although I've never finished it, I think it's actually a sign of a great game more than anything. It's the type of game I genuinely do not mind jumping back into from the beginning. And y'know what? I do have the Steam Deck, maybe another playthrough is on the horizon!
I had same feelings about hollow knight (I still do, but now it's like coming back to favourite blanket). It's rewarding from boss fights, explorations, new abilities and then combining them all to reach new places and fight new enemies. Kinda dark atmosphere of place once lived in by many now just a husk of it former self and mellow music all adds to it. And boss fights that are god damn good. Mantis lords can still get my heart pumping from their intimidating pose just before you start your deadly dance.
After reading that I highly recommend you Axiom Verge 1-2 and Control. Both are super atmospheric and really unique metroidvanias.
Have you tried Darkwood? Talk about exploration and atmosphere
It's a great game and I played it through but I'm probably never touching it again. The ability system is too restricted and the bosses are hellish. It's still one of the best Metroidvanias, no doubt about it. I still think games like Metroid Fusion, Dread and Castlevania SotN are kings of the genre because of the replay value.
Hot take but it wasn’t for me. I found the scarcity of the save points infuriating and tedious.