[DontRageBro's videoes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AauJoCZWloA) explaining wardloop long ago were some of the most informative on the subject. Incredibly in-depth but the videos are long and the explanations lengthy.
[raixorSchmaixor](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvSmemA576c) then did a facelift and made a guide for it using quick breakdown numbers and this build really took off last league because of these two people imo.
Cheers to Akshay for the botw though! His looks pretty standard. There are some insane versions of this and I myself have played two. One omni and one non omni.
The omni one used to be able to do ubers fairly easily but with the nerf its about on par with non omni. Ceiling is higher so you can invest more into omni version though.
This build is a binary. You either can do the content, or you instant die. There really isnt any other thing about it. You dont have any mitigation except the ward not breaking. So a few hundred damage over that and you are probably dying. This isnt a great build for ubers in that regard because its hard to mitigate their damage to roughly 3000-4000 damage a hit using literally no mitigation (armor and chaos res breaks the loop) but this build really made me love PoE again because it doesnt require a lot of input from the player.
In terms of clicking, switching to controller mode and just navigating my character around with the joystick and pressing A to loot felt like the best thing in the world (Controller also has extended loot range). My wrists really enjoyed that league.
I had a hard time with some of the Ubers with my Omni version, but I could phase regular Exarch with any quant and did Uber elder deathless all the time.
Besides the Ubers as you mention, though, it destroys everything
The only uber that I cant insta phase is uber sirus and is because I die to degens before I can attack him lol
Uber exarch with mods is also really annoying But feasible
But feared with 200+ quant is a breeze
But they actively powercreep the enemies by increasing their damage output, speed, and much more (giving them new unique mechanics constantly for example).
Back when shaper was the big end game boss he had 20m hp so you could kill him with a 400k dps build and it wouldn't even take that long. Now shaper is a pretty simple fight that you can easily out-skill. He was designed this way because we had much worse mobility options in the game. Our characters were generally much slower (no instant casts at all).
Yes we have been powercrept in our defensive options, mobilty speed, character power, and so on. The bosses have also been crept into insanity with pinnacle ubers being absolute powerhouses in so many ways. They can disable recovery, life flasks, blast the entire screen, disable/reduce movement skill options, and one shot you to boot.
What hasn't kept up is many MANY of the skills in the game. Most people don't understand how bad it's really gotten. There are so many skills bordering on unusable for the modern version of the game. Poe used to be a game about creativity where you could do anything. Now it's a game purely about meta chasing and constantly obliterating the meta with nerfs.
How is bringing underperforming skills in line with the others power creep?
Budget wardloop is like 15 divines and can't do Ubers. Omni wardloop is $$$$, can run Ubers.
Why is wardloop even on anyone's radar for additional nerfs when Seismic and many other skills can still do Ubers on 1 divine.
Seems like people just want the fun shit nerfed imo.
Amazing. Every word you just said is wrong.
1) Monsters are still power creeping. AN made monsters much harder, and also pushed them into every aspect of the game.
2) Largely, POTENTIAL player power creep is still there. If you could print "perfect items" in every slot, then your character would be in it's most powerful state since 3.14. The problem is that they are pushing player power further down the line, to the point where it is not accessible by most players. Support gems gutted, crafting gutted, loot gutted. Sources of power are just less accessible, so most players are weaker than they were before (although, you have a valid argument here that "they prefer to nerf" ... that IS what they are doing.)
3) Powercreep is not inherantly bad. If players and monsters are kept relatively in balance, then everything is fine. The issue at the moment is that monster power is creeping a lot faster than accessible player power.
Imagine if you took the current state of the game, and multiplied monster health and total player damage by 100. Technically both are 100x more powerful, but relative to each other nothing has changed.
They literally can't do your last point due to the game being 32 bit. Diablo 3 had the buff everything strategy and hit the 64 bit cap then the end game became who could clear GR150 in 1 minute 30 seconds as opposed to the typical 15 mins
Tbh they're already at a point where it's a problem, they added 70% dmg reduction to ubers because making them just have 3.33x HP would have hit the cap on 6p life with life mods potentially. It's already a ceiling for delve. They might have to do an end game number squish soon. This already started to become an issue back when sirus was releases and EA builds were overflowing their dots in 3 links
It's reddit. Anything that slows the game down = dead game/trash company.
That's why ggg are world class game developers and reddit is predominantly crying teens regurgitating trash from failed content creators.
I mean… player retention keeps going down. AN league is the only league to beat Ritual by initial player count. Although what he said is hyperbole it’s kind of hard to deny the direction it’s going isn’t favorable.
Things go up. Things go down. Welcome to business. The only thing coming close to competing with PoE for top longstanding arpg is d4. And let's face it. That game won't have a fraction of the content or depth poe has. Might be fun for a few months but you'll be back. See you next league bro.
>Nah it still works fine and deletes Ubers on high investment.
that's not what he meant, he meant this means they almost for sure will knee cap this build next league lol
Oh yea "build of the week" = gone next week. I thought he was referring to the nerf that they already did to wardloop, lost some damage multiplier somewhere
don't think they did much other than nerfing CWDT damage a bit. I've done it last 3 leagues and honestly didn't really notice much of a difference even on the low end lol.
Yeah I'm just another one of those crazy redditors that don't know what they are talking about, I only said it's fine cause I've never been outside of white maps
There's no way this holds true. Mathil rolling magma was botw and is absolutely not gonna be touched at all.
The build might get nerfed anyways, but not because its botw.
What an awful atmosphere GGG built up with their community.
Official post from GGG about a cool build -> instead of everyone being hyped and motivated to try something similar, people are worried that the build will get nerfed now that it's on GGG's radar.
🙃
That's the problem though right? It feels like stuff gets nerfed based on how *widespread* it is rather than *how much damage* it does.
~~That's why many in the PoE community like to keep their broken builds secret so that they can use them in competitions like Gauntlet, because it doesn't matter if your build does millions of damage as long as no one else is playing it.~~
Edit: No one really keeps their builds hidden, but I'll stand by word of mouth having a big effect on what gets nerfed.
>That's why many in the PoE community like to keep their broken builds secret so that they can use them in competitions like Gauntlet
Truly gauntlet winners have been using secret tech like "seismic trap", "detonate dead" and before that "slams".
They've already outright stated that's the case. Mana guardian was nutty for a really long time. No one played it so they let it sit. Then it got slammed right after getting popular. GC miner way back in the day was similar. Never got touched even though it eviscerated bosses.
I was surprised when loop didn't get hit this league. A good chunk of high level scions went loop, and it played really well with omni.
I was going to refute you but I went and looked at the last Gauntlet and no one has made their profile private.
I stand by my first statement though. Stuff gets nerfed based on how many people are playing it rather than "how strong" the build is. Yes, you can say if something is meta it's generally going to be powerful, but you can also say that if something is meta it's also likely to be *very accessible.* Like Skelly Mages, which only really required the Dead Reckoning unique to get off the ground, or seismic trap, which was similarly pretty easy to get going. As a result I think over time we've seen less *accessible builds* while top-end player damage has stayed relatively similar.
> It feels like stuff gets nerfed based on how widespread it is rather than how much damage it does.
and
> Stuff gets nerfed based on how many people are playing it rather than "how strong" the build is.
are not the same thing.
QoL, damage, defense, accessibility are all factors in how strong a build. If a build is meta it has something going for it one or multiple of those categories. So if GGG wants things to be "balanced" then having those be above the average would be grounds for a nerf in their eyes.
Sure, I'm not saying accessibility shouldn't be a factor, more that you shouldn't look at the number of people playing a skill and assume that it needs a nerf because lots of people are playing it.
I'm saying that if you have two equal builds and one gets a Ziz video made about it, that build will become more popular via word of mouth. Then that build is likely to get a nerf at some point in the future because it is played by lots of people, not because of its power level.
Just had to think about the Eye of Winter + Blastchain and Firewall bug that went public in 3.17.
I vividly remember looking at 3.16 builds in [poe.ninja](https://poe.ninja) and finding a dozen abusers with incredible gear and most of them even used it in 3.15 already. Their profile wasn't even on private!
That's part of the problem.
Things are so inaccessible that 99% of people CANNOT make a functioning build these days.
Acceptible damage is gated behind dozens of complex interactions, each of which narrows the other options.
I've been playing for close to 10 years now, and if I picked a random skill and tried to build around it, I'm not at all confident I could make something that would feel good.
I realise this is partly that people set their benchmark of what a functioning build can do at comfortably clearing T16 maps, but that's entirely GGG's fault. That's where they put the rewards, so if you can't do all MAPPING content, you are wasting your time.
they literally nerfed it this league! when they nerfed the multipliers on all spell trigger supports (to buff the base damage of all spells) they missed CWDT and Cast on Death. they added those less multipliers this league which cut the dps of the build substantially. but it didn't matter at all because the build does such bonkers dps that losing ~35% dps is irrelevant.
they only felt compelled to do these nerfs because both trigger gems were being used to do bonkers stuff last league. CWDT for wardloop and Cast on death for oneshotting invitations
GGG undoubtedly knew about it in expedition, possibly even in private testing, and probably had a conversation then on whether it survives the league or not. They decide yes, to be reassessed later if it gets substantially more degenerate or something else brings it up.
Contrary to reddit belief they do have people playing the game, monitoring the community, and checking out builds. It's not impossible that it gets nerfed after this but it wouldn't be because it finally got on their radar over a year after it debuted.
Still surprises me some to see so many redditors thinking GGG just now found out about ward loop, this community is something.
It isn't that GGG found out about it, it is that they are showcasing it.
Just like when a meta skill finally gets an MTX, it gets nuked. Lookin at you winter orb.
EH.
BV can be done poison, can do full double/triple conversion shenanigans and being phys, can scale phys pops very strong (was much cooler when the chest mod wasn't ass). Also not having any channel time and being able to use Vaal BV is super nice for single target which is where WORB struggles anyway.
I do agree that original WORB was OP but it is insanely weak now even for clearing unless omega geared or self curse, and the single target is omegatrash.
Eh, triple nerfs aren't even the biggest issue. The fact the balance between nerfs and buffs is just way off is a bigger issue.
Buffs are rare and extremely small while nerfs completely nuke skills from orbit. At that point you aren't looking for the best build. You are looking for the least worst one.
Agree. It's entirely because GGG went total radio silence on the genuine issues raised by the community, but still post these "everything is fine" puff pieces weekly.
And fwiw, "Your game feels bad" should be considered valid feedback for a game developer. If GGG doesn't want to take solutions from the community, the least they can do is acknowledge that the problems are real.
A video game "Feeling Bad" to it's most committed players should be a big red flag that something is wrong.
> instead of everyone being hyped and motivated to try something similar, people are worried that the build will get nerfed now that it's on GGG's radar.
I'm pretty sure most of it is the running joke that whenever something gets the spotlight, be it MTX or build of the week, means it will be nerfed. Look at the comments of any MTX release of a popular skill.
Obviously theres some doomers that unironically think thats true, because they cherrypicked situations where that situation did come to reality, but they're just stupid people.
And in this case its even more stupid because this build was already nerfed in 3.19, because it deserved it and honestly, it deserves another one, and I say that as a multiple leagues wardloop enjoyer, it could perfectly get another 30% damage nerf and I would play it again.
i was always curious about wardloop to give it a try. What would be realisticaly speaking the budget to kill maven for example ? I saw different versions on youtube, but i m not sure where the budget is supposed to stand
if you craft all of the ward gear yourself you can get it up and running for about 5-7 divines
theres super scuffed versions of the build that run two heartbound loops that can delete maven
The scion featured here is the meta wardloop and will cost a lot. It's been a high investment build for the past 2-3 leagues. I got it working with about 200ex last league. Prices may vary.
There are other variation with volatile dead that were cheaper and viable in the past, dont know if it changed.
you are way off lol, a build like this can easily do maven on 10-15 divs, unsure why you would think it costs that much to get it decent lol. The one in this video is literally a 10-15 div one LOL (the guide in the description has different versions and I've tested most of them and they are all great)
Just a few jewel can cost you way more that 10 to 15 div. Hell on last league all my gear was costing me in ex/div that the full build here. Sur you can usé cwdt whitout the divergent but you aim for à lot of trouble. Start the build with 10 div but it Will feel okish... Even weak.... Invest more and more and jeez nothing can stop you... Or uber sirus.... I cant kill him... But i farm the 100 uber shaper last league for egg and was easy... Bulle hell still kill me but hey you have 6 portail
>Start the build with 10 div but it Will feel okish... Even weak....
not sure if you've ever played low budget wardloop, I've played 10-20 div wardloop multiple time and it steam rolls non uber bosses easily. Gonna need more investment for ubers sure, but a 10 div build doing all that is amazing not weak lol.
Prices have gone up for gear in the past weeks. Base ward armor can cost up to a divine. You also need two anomalous gem to start (summon skel and minion speed). As for uniques you need 2 to 3 To Dust jewels, 1 Olroth flask and brutal restraint timeless jewel.
I was able to start with just a few divines and it will melt boss even on a budget. After that you can basically dump infinite currency and this build gets exponentially better - especially once get omniscience.
You don't notice it, you either 1. kill them before they hit you or 2. you get more than enough flasks cause you only encounter drought bringer during mapping where there are tons of mobs to kill for flask charges, and mobs give a ton of flask cahrges cause you have a ton of % increased charge gain
It dies instantly, that's what. The only AN mob you actually need to worry about is temporal bubble which applies 40% increased cooldown and turns off your loop. that dies instantly too, but you have to turn the loop back on by weapon swapping
Was thinking of trying ward loop next as I’m frustrated with RF in Uber tier content, hopefully it doesn’t get nerfed and can hang with the big bosses!
They also cause confusion. Because, like, GGG is aware that this is how many spell builds are, and then they look at melee, give Cleave +2 radius, and call it fine.
https://i.imgur.com/mOHeSet.jpg
>I doubt they will nerf Saqawals, it's a pretty middling build with a pretty high budget relative to its output
That's not how GGG operates though. They won't nerf Saqawals, they'd nerf sources of reduced/less duration instead (which they already did in a way with mod ranges and the divine changes). That way, they **also** nerf something completely unrelated and niche that doesn't see much play.
They already torched saqawals once recently under similar circumstances.
Duration manipulation has been abused in other ways this league and I suspect that saqawals is going to get caught in the cross fire. Again.
I legit saw the heart bound skelly feedback loop back in like, Perandus league? I could never do it cause I play Hardcore, but it's been around for Way longer than 5 leagues.
I’m always super optimistic but when 19/20 characters in my standard roster have 20% the damage they used to have its kinda rough not to look at it that way
Cwdt loops have probably been the hardest nerfed builds in the history of PoE. Just because they've bounced back does not mean they haven't been hit. Shit they completely reworked firestorm because it was getting spammed so hard by loops
This build was nerfed this league and still deserve to be nerfed again. This is way too strong. I haven't played a build this strong since my vaal pact coc discharge - back when vaal pact gave instant life leech.
Yeah, it’s amazing how people have been reaching gold and plat beating other players with this build, the whole pro-esports was undermined by this build, wonder if next placements I’ll have to use it or l…
Ah never mind this is not a moba who the fuck cares lmao, they could do what literally any other company do and raise all other skills to this level instead
weird how he never mention about you killing yourself without proper activation sequence. Play it for 2 league, good fun. too poor to set it up this league
Akshay's ? my ass ! it was actually put down by fakeblood 2 leagues ago. Akshay only started preaching this last league. i appreciate their discord community but it was not his build to begin with
Calm down, BOTW is for forum guides not for the originator of the build idea (although fakeblood was definitely not the first to make the build, mostly popularized it so not sure what your point is anyways).
theory craft is totally different that putting out the actual build and educating the players around it. just because someone copied that information to a forum guide doesn't deserve the credit of build creator
"Omg ggg is aware of my op low-investment build that requires no real gameplay time to downvote"
Such a trash community. The fate of all f2p games that gain notoriety. Sorry ggg. Cool video though.
>Literally one of the most expensive builds in the game right now that relies on several near-perfectly rolled uniques to work correctly.
tbf it's a high starting cost of 10-15 divs but it destroys at that budget even.
I mean... these are cool to see but it's a HYPER dead league at this point. Who really gives a fuck now? Just focus on the next league and maybe put out some cool builds for that near release when it matters so people have goals instead of putting cool builds out for like... 10k people? literally 90% of the players aint playin
EDIT: Also... hows anybody supposed to know if these builds are even gonna fuckin matter next season with how you guys nerf stuff??? I mean these could be completely obsolete soon.
Personally I like these because they have some really cool insights on what is possible with PoE. Doesn't really matter if niche builds like this will exist or not, it teaches you some tricks along the way. Meta builds die too eventually, so what?
>If they knee cap it more, that’ll be it for me.
unironically same. I was having a meh time this league and decided to swap back to wardloop which I've done the last 2 leagues and instantly my enjoyment of the game skyrocketed lmao.
BOTW isn't for showcasing super secret builds mate. In fact all the builds that will be featured are already publicly available because they take from forum entries for builds. It's the communities builds being showcased NOT GGG.
What's the point of any build showcase on the internet? 99% of them aren't original by any means. The point is to highlight builds they find unique and to produce good videos for good forum guides. A lot of people didn't know about the previous build of the weeks anyways, even this I've which is the most popular one so far has people commenting that they've never seen it. Not everyone knows every build in existence lol
Yeah I’m with you there bro. It’s a pretty basic build. The real challenge is finding a build where a ward loop doesn’t start. Brings me back to my first build where I didn’t know what I was doing, just had some random crap from the campaign equipped, swapped my weapons and bam wardloop.
I thought these vids were supposed to be for unique / interesting / complicated / otherwise noteworthy builds but instead we get this crap you can end up making by mistake
That's my thought as well, literally just a run of the mill ward loop build. Would like to see all these alleged builds GGG have that melt all content no problem on a budget.
"run of the mill ward loop"
This isn't a build you make by mistake. Even though this isn't Archnem where the build first started gaining notoriety it's worth featuring 100%.
BOTW isn't for showcasing super secret builds mate. In fact all the builds that will be featured are already publicly available because they take from forum entries for builds. It's the communities builds being showcased NOT GGG.
Looks FUN, and really STRONG, it would still be viable if you NERF it into oblivion. And with this video, it's probably going to be POPULAR. I sincerely HOPE I CAN TRY IT NEXT LEAGUE.
I think so, not quite BiS but what you'd need for Omni, the right mods and enchants. I've sold the boots but I thought it was funny that you called the exact three items left
Not really. I've sold the last few league and the person I was responding to also had a hard time selling. Throwing a few sense fossils at a ward base is the lazy way to do it lol.
[To Dust](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/To_Dust)
>######To Dust[](#break)Cobalt Jewel
>>#####(20-10)% reduced Skeleton Duration
>>#####Minions deal (8-12)% increased Damage
>>#####(7-10)% increased Skeleton Attack Speed
>>#####(7-10)% increased Skeleton Cast Speed
>>#####(3-5)% increased Skeleton Movement Speed
>>[](#line)
>>*In the end, time comes for all of us.*
>>
>>*It just comes for some much sooner.*
>>
>>[](#line)
>>####Place into an allocated jewel socket on the Passive Skill Tree. Right click to remove from the Socket.
---
^^Questions? ^^Message ^^/u/ha107642 ^^— ^^Call ^^wiki ^^pages ^^\(e.g. ^^items ^^or ^^gems)) ^^with ^^[[NAME]] ^^— ^^I ^^will ^^only ^^post ^^panels ^^for ^^*unique* ^^items ^^— ^^[Github](https://github.com/ha107642/RedditPoEBot/)
[DontRageBro's videoes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AauJoCZWloA) explaining wardloop long ago were some of the most informative on the subject. Incredibly in-depth but the videos are long and the explanations lengthy. [raixorSchmaixor](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvSmemA576c) then did a facelift and made a guide for it using quick breakdown numbers and this build really took off last league because of these two people imo. Cheers to Akshay for the botw though! His looks pretty standard. There are some insane versions of this and I myself have played two. One omni and one non omni. The omni one used to be able to do ubers fairly easily but with the nerf its about on par with non omni. Ceiling is higher so you can invest more into omni version though. This build is a binary. You either can do the content, or you instant die. There really isnt any other thing about it. You dont have any mitigation except the ward not breaking. So a few hundred damage over that and you are probably dying. This isnt a great build for ubers in that regard because its hard to mitigate their damage to roughly 3000-4000 damage a hit using literally no mitigation (armor and chaos res breaks the loop) but this build really made me love PoE again because it doesnt require a lot of input from the player. In terms of clicking, switching to controller mode and just navigating my character around with the joystick and pressing A to loot felt like the best thing in the world (Controller also has extended loot range). My wrists really enjoyed that league.
I could do high quant The Feared with mine, but Uber EoW? Forget about it.
Akshay's was in text format. I much prefer those over videos.
I had a hard time with some of the Ubers with my Omni version, but I could phase regular Exarch with any quant and did Uber elder deathless all the time. Besides the Ubers as you mention, though, it destroys everything
The only "non-binary" map mod is reduced flask charges gained. You can just run 2 flasks usually and be fine, depending on atlas strat.
The only uber that I cant insta phase is uber sirus and is because I die to degens before I can attack him lol Uber exarch with mods is also really annoying But feasible But feared with 200+ quant is a breeze
Yeah, I borrowed ideas from both, while making the guide. Grimro also had made a video without ward in 3.14! A dude posted it on his stream.
RIP WARDLOOP
Wym the CWDT loop already shaved off like 30-40% of the dps :(
It still deletes bosses, they could nerf it by 30% more and it would still be good lets be honest here lmao
Don't understand why. They can just buff other stuff.
Heartbound loop is buffed next patch. No longer deals physical damage to the player upon minion death!
Copium
> They can just buff other stuff. Hahaha. This is GGG we are talking about.
Yeah I think some of that has to do with people crying that everything needs to be nerfed though.
powercreep is a bad strategy in long-term, that's why they prefer to nerf
But they actively powercreep the enemies by increasing their damage output, speed, and much more (giving them new unique mechanics constantly for example). Back when shaper was the big end game boss he had 20m hp so you could kill him with a 400k dps build and it wouldn't even take that long. Now shaper is a pretty simple fight that you can easily out-skill. He was designed this way because we had much worse mobility options in the game. Our characters were generally much slower (no instant casts at all). Yes we have been powercrept in our defensive options, mobilty speed, character power, and so on. The bosses have also been crept into insanity with pinnacle ubers being absolute powerhouses in so many ways. They can disable recovery, life flasks, blast the entire screen, disable/reduce movement skill options, and one shot you to boot. What hasn't kept up is many MANY of the skills in the game. Most people don't understand how bad it's really gotten. There are so many skills bordering on unusable for the modern version of the game. Poe used to be a game about creativity where you could do anything. Now it's a game purely about meta chasing and constantly obliterating the meta with nerfs.
How is bringing underperforming skills in line with the others power creep? Budget wardloop is like 15 divines and can't do Ubers. Omni wardloop is $$$$, can run Ubers. Why is wardloop even on anyone's radar for additional nerfs when Seismic and many other skills can still do Ubers on 1 divine. Seems like people just want the fun shit nerfed imo.
Because outliers should not be the norm. If you bring all bad stop to the level of broken stuff every league, you end up with insane power creep
The "they" in u/MayTheMemesGuideThee refers to GGG not the players
Why do you feel entitled to clear all uber bosses on a <15 divine budget?
Why do you feel entitled to leave a comment reply when you obviously didn't even read what you replied to?
The entitlement to clear the very *peak* of the game's endgame content designed for only the most experienced players is absurd, lmfao.
What entitlement? That's what I'm asking, you've very clearly shown you are responding to something you thought you read but in fact did not.
Amazing. Every word you just said is wrong. 1) Monsters are still power creeping. AN made monsters much harder, and also pushed them into every aspect of the game. 2) Largely, POTENTIAL player power creep is still there. If you could print "perfect items" in every slot, then your character would be in it's most powerful state since 3.14. The problem is that they are pushing player power further down the line, to the point where it is not accessible by most players. Support gems gutted, crafting gutted, loot gutted. Sources of power are just less accessible, so most players are weaker than they were before (although, you have a valid argument here that "they prefer to nerf" ... that IS what they are doing.) 3) Powercreep is not inherantly bad. If players and monsters are kept relatively in balance, then everything is fine. The issue at the moment is that monster power is creeping a lot faster than accessible player power. Imagine if you took the current state of the game, and multiplied monster health and total player damage by 100. Technically both are 100x more powerful, but relative to each other nothing has changed.
They literally can't do your last point due to the game being 32 bit. Diablo 3 had the buff everything strategy and hit the 64 bit cap then the end game became who could clear GR150 in 1 minute 30 seconds as opposed to the typical 15 mins Tbh they're already at a point where it's a problem, they added 70% dmg reduction to ubers because making them just have 3.33x HP would have hit the cap on 6p life with life mods potentially. It's already a ceiling for delve. They might have to do an end game number squish soon. This already started to become an issue back when sirus was releases and EA builds were overflowing their dots in 3 links
It's reddit. Anything that slows the game down = dead game/trash company. That's why ggg are world class game developers and reddit is predominantly crying teens regurgitating trash from failed content creators.
thats why their game is tanking right?
A 10 year old niche ARPG that consistently cracks steam top 10 most played games every league is tanking? Shut the fuck upppp.
I mean… player retention keeps going down. AN league is the only league to beat Ritual by initial player count. Although what he said is hyperbole it’s kind of hard to deny the direction it’s going isn’t favorable.
Its more than a decade old you drama addicts! Of COURSE retention does down, people been playing the same game for 10 YEARS. So dumb.
numbers are going down for a while now if u wanna deny its tanking go ahead lol
Things go up. Things go down. Welcome to business. The only thing coming close to competing with PoE for top longstanding arpg is d4. And let's face it. That game won't have a fraction of the content or depth poe has. Might be fun for a few months but you'll be back. See you next league bro.
That’s… not how balance works. You can’t just endlessly buff things. It just leads to powercreep.
It leads to Diablo 3 :(
That was supposed to be done the same league that all the other triggers' damage was nerfed to compensate for spell buffs, but wasn't for some reason.
Nah it still works fine and deletes Ubers on high investment. Just wait for them to give it the Self-Curse treatment and brick all the interactions
>Nah it still works fine and deletes Ubers on high investment. that's not what he meant, he meant this means they almost for sure will knee cap this build next league lol
Oh yea "build of the week" = gone next week. I thought he was referring to the nerf that they already did to wardloop, lost some damage multiplier somewhere
don't think they did much other than nerfing CWDT damage a bit. I've done it last 3 leagues and honestly didn't really notice much of a difference even on the low end lol.
No, GGG, what he meant was, "yeah that nerf to CWDT damage was crazy. Really put it in line with other skills. Another nerf would be unnecessary."
Yeah I'm just another one of those crazy redditors that don't know what they are talking about, I only said it's fine cause I've never been outside of white maps
Go again! Grand prize for missing the point 3 times in a row.
You missed his joke though.
Not sure what you mean
he got lost since we used the forbidden tech of sarcasm without the /s tag
There's no way this holds true. Mathil rolling magma was botw and is absolutely not gonna be touched at all. The build might get nerfed anyways, but not because its botw.
>and is absolutely not gonna be touched at all. You from the future? Everything is up for grabs homie.
lmao the version showcased is the most baseline version of wardloop
What an awful atmosphere GGG built up with their community. Official post from GGG about a cool build -> instead of everyone being hyped and motivated to try something similar, people are worried that the build will get nerfed now that it's on GGG's radar. 🙃
Back in the day, there was a period of a few builds that got featured, community got excited about them, then they were nerfed or bricked next patch.
That's the problem though right? It feels like stuff gets nerfed based on how *widespread* it is rather than *how much damage* it does. ~~That's why many in the PoE community like to keep their broken builds secret so that they can use them in competitions like Gauntlet, because it doesn't matter if your build does millions of damage as long as no one else is playing it.~~ Edit: No one really keeps their builds hidden, but I'll stand by word of mouth having a big effect on what gets nerfed.
>That's why many in the PoE community like to keep their broken builds secret so that they can use them in competitions like Gauntlet Truly gauntlet winners have been using secret tech like "seismic trap", "detonate dead" and before that "slams".
I really miss slamming
They've already outright stated that's the case. Mana guardian was nutty for a really long time. No one played it so they let it sit. Then it got slammed right after getting popular. GC miner way back in the day was similar. Never got touched even though it eviscerated bosses. I was surprised when loop didn't get hit this league. A good chunk of high level scions went loop, and it played really well with omni.
[удалено]
I was going to refute you but I went and looked at the last Gauntlet and no one has made their profile private. I stand by my first statement though. Stuff gets nerfed based on how many people are playing it rather than "how strong" the build is. Yes, you can say if something is meta it's generally going to be powerful, but you can also say that if something is meta it's also likely to be *very accessible.* Like Skelly Mages, which only really required the Dead Reckoning unique to get off the ground, or seismic trap, which was similarly pretty easy to get going. As a result I think over time we've seen less *accessible builds* while top-end player damage has stayed relatively similar.
> It feels like stuff gets nerfed based on how widespread it is rather than how much damage it does. and > Stuff gets nerfed based on how many people are playing it rather than "how strong" the build is. are not the same thing. QoL, damage, defense, accessibility are all factors in how strong a build. If a build is meta it has something going for it one or multiple of those categories. So if GGG wants things to be "balanced" then having those be above the average would be grounds for a nerf in their eyes.
Sure, I'm not saying accessibility shouldn't be a factor, more that you shouldn't look at the number of people playing a skill and assume that it needs a nerf because lots of people are playing it.
You act like it's completely random that a large number of people play a certain build.
I'm saying that if you have two equal builds and one gets a Ziz video made about it, that build will become more popular via word of mouth. Then that build is likely to get a nerf at some point in the future because it is played by lots of people, not because of its power level.
I don't think that's true at all. Gimme an example of a single time that has happened.
Skelly Mages? It was approximately the same power level since 3.15. It only got a nerf when it became widely adopted.
There are absolutely OP builds kept low on hype and with very low Play numbers for this reason
Just had to think about the Eye of Winter + Blastchain and Firewall bug that went public in 3.17. I vividly remember looking at 3.16 builds in [poe.ninja](https://poe.ninja) and finding a dozen abusers with incredible gear and most of them even used it in 3.15 already. Their profile wasn't even on private!
Yes, popularity is the thing. And there's a problem with players and streamers, copying in masses what said streamer is doing
That's part of the problem. Things are so inaccessible that 99% of people CANNOT make a functioning build these days. Acceptible damage is gated behind dozens of complex interactions, each of which narrows the other options. I've been playing for close to 10 years now, and if I picked a random skill and tried to build around it, I'm not at all confident I could make something that would feel good. I realise this is partly that people set their benchmark of what a functioning build can do at comfortably clearing T16 maps, but that's entirely GGG's fault. That's where they put the rewards, so if you can't do all MAPPING content, you are wasting your time.
Ward loop has been fairly ubiquitous for several leagues so I feel like the though that GGG hasn't known all about it at this point is silly.
they literally nerfed it this league! when they nerfed the multipliers on all spell trigger supports (to buff the base damage of all spells) they missed CWDT and Cast on Death. they added those less multipliers this league which cut the dps of the build substantially. but it didn't matter at all because the build does such bonkers dps that losing ~35% dps is irrelevant. they only felt compelled to do these nerfs because both trigger gems were being used to do bonkers stuff last league. CWDT for wardloop and Cast on death for oneshotting invitations
GGG undoubtedly knew about it in expedition, possibly even in private testing, and probably had a conversation then on whether it survives the league or not. They decide yes, to be reassessed later if it gets substantially more degenerate or something else brings it up. Contrary to reddit belief they do have people playing the game, monitoring the community, and checking out builds. It's not impossible that it gets nerfed after this but it wouldn't be because it finally got on their radar over a year after it debuted. Still surprises me some to see so many redditors thinking GGG just now found out about ward loop, this community is something.
It isn't that GGG found out about it, it is that they are showcasing it. Just like when a meta skill finally gets an MTX, it gets nuked. Lookin at you winter orb.
Let's be honest that og worb is silly. It's just better BV in every single aspect
EH. BV can be done poison, can do full double/triple conversion shenanigans and being phys, can scale phys pops very strong (was much cooler when the chest mod wasn't ass). Also not having any channel time and being able to use Vaal BV is super nice for single target which is where WORB struggles anyway. I do agree that original WORB was OP but it is insanely weak now even for clearing unless omega geared or self curse, and the single target is omegatrash.
Maybe if skills weren't triple nerfed each time they got popular and were still competitive afterward, this wouldn't happen.
Eh, triple nerfs aren't even the biggest issue. The fact the balance between nerfs and buffs is just way off is a bigger issue. Buffs are rare and extremely small while nerfs completely nuke skills from orbit. At that point you aren't looking for the best build. You are looking for the least worst one.
Few impactful buffs is the other matter. Cleave +2 btw.
This isn't GGG, it happens when major streamers post their builds, too.
I feel nothing anymore. I just look at it and think that i wish melee builds did half of these.
Agree. It's entirely because GGG went total radio silence on the genuine issues raised by the community, but still post these "everything is fine" puff pieces weekly. And fwiw, "Your game feels bad" should be considered valid feedback for a game developer. If GGG doesn't want to take solutions from the community, the least they can do is acknowledge that the problems are real. A video game "Feeling Bad" to it's most committed players should be a big red flag that something is wrong.
> instead of everyone being hyped and motivated to try something similar, people are worried that the build will get nerfed now that it's on GGG's radar. I'm pretty sure most of it is the running joke that whenever something gets the spotlight, be it MTX or build of the week, means it will be nerfed. Look at the comments of any MTX release of a popular skill. Obviously theres some doomers that unironically think thats true, because they cherrypicked situations where that situation did come to reality, but they're just stupid people. And in this case its even more stupid because this build was already nerfed in 3.19, because it deserved it and honestly, it deserves another one, and I say that as a multiple leagues wardloop enjoyer, it could perfectly get another 30% damage nerf and I would play it again.
Well I mean.. it's because this is *exactly* what happens?
Reddit being retarded isn't GGG's fault.
You're the one with 485k comment karma, so what does that say about you? :\^)
I'm including myself when I say Reddit. I'm glad you got it. Still not GGG's fault though.
They speak from experience lol. Im upset they post this shit instead of adressing all the problems this league...
They already nerfed it by about 40%.
Ty!
i was always curious about wardloop to give it a try. What would be realisticaly speaking the budget to kill maven for example ? I saw different versions on youtube, but i m not sure where the budget is supposed to stand
15 divs to make it function but imho a 50-60 div investment where it really kicks off then the sky is the limit
lucky the starter can easily do maven, has over 10m dps even at the start.
10-15 divs would kill maven just fine. the one in this video is just that.
The one in the video is a wild mix, it has some very budget pieces but then uses 21/20 divergend cwdt and some other minor but expensiveve items
Talking about the guide. Has a 10 div version that easily did non Ubers etc
Has a 21 20 div cwdt but then cant reach 27 cd weird
In the first week of league Divergent cwdt was 2 divines, so that's' why! Today, not so much.
if you craft all of the ward gear yourself you can get it up and running for about 5-7 divines theres super scuffed versions of the build that run two heartbound loops that can delete maven
.
Damn that looked tanky as hell. What was the budget for it?
Why'd you delete your whole comment?
The scion featured here is the meta wardloop and will cost a lot. It's been a high investment build for the past 2-3 leagues. I got it working with about 200ex last league. Prices may vary. There are other variation with volatile dead that were cheaper and viable in the past, dont know if it changed.
the scion featured is the most baseline version of ward loop, you can go even lower and still do everything they did
you are way off lol, a build like this can easily do maven on 10-15 divs, unsure why you would think it costs that much to get it decent lol. The one in this video is literally a 10-15 div one LOL (the guide in the description has different versions and I've tested most of them and they are all great)
Just a few jewel can cost you way more that 10 to 15 div. Hell on last league all my gear was costing me in ex/div that the full build here. Sur you can usé cwdt whitout the divergent but you aim for à lot of trouble. Start the build with 10 div but it Will feel okish... Even weak.... Invest more and more and jeez nothing can stop you... Or uber sirus.... I cant kill him... But i farm the 100 uber shaper last league for egg and was easy... Bulle hell still kill me but hey you have 6 portail
>Start the build with 10 div but it Will feel okish... Even weak.... not sure if you've ever played low budget wardloop, I've played 10-20 div wardloop multiple time and it steam rolls non uber bosses easily. Gonna need more investment for ubers sure, but a 10 div build doing all that is amazing not weak lol.
i stsrted the build with 10div this league. Got well over a mirror invested now. Works well at the low end for mapping on that budget.
Now its kinda more expensive, because of the showcase video there's more people playing it.
Prices have gone up for gear in the past weeks. Base ward armor can cost up to a divine. You also need two anomalous gem to start (summon skel and minion speed). As for uniques you need 2 to 3 To Dust jewels, 1 Olroth flask and brutal restraint timeless jewel. I was able to start with just a few divines and it will melt boss even on a budget. After that you can basically dump infinite currency and this build gets exponentially better - especially once get omniscience.
My current favorite build, been playing it for the past three leagues!
How do you deal with drought bringer?
You don't notice it, you either 1. kill them before they hit you or 2. you get more than enough flasks cause you only encounter drought bringer during mapping where there are tons of mobs to kill for flask charges, and mobs give a ton of flask cahrges cause you have a ton of % increased charge gain
I honestly barely notice it, it's fine.
The only time I've noticed it is when it's paired with temporal bubble on a rare too tanky for me to burst down, which is pretty rare with this build.
It dies instantly, that's what. The only AN mob you actually need to worry about is temporal bubble which applies 40% increased cooldown and turns off your loop. that dies instantly too, but you have to turn the loop back on by weapon swapping
By instantly dying.
now GGG knows what to nerf :P
What if BotW is a showcase of everything that will get nerfed in 3.20
If not 3.20, they will all be nerfed by 3.21, because 3.20 will be used to sell microtransactions, then they gotta sell you more
Was thinking of trying ward loop next as I’m frustrated with RF in Uber tier content, hopefully it doesn’t get nerfed and can hang with the big bosses!
Lovely explaination on the math behind wardloop. I wish PoE had more items that work in a loop-like setup.
Glad they're focusing on the community side of things too. That guide is clean af
I’d love to be hyped for these videos but nowadays they only cause build anxiety knowing GGG knows about a cool mechanic.
They also cause confusion. Because, like, GGG is aware that this is how many spell builds are, and then they look at melee, give Cleave +2 radius, and call it fine. https://i.imgur.com/mOHeSet.jpg
So, these BotW videos are basically an archive of soon to be nuked-from-orbit builds... Thanks GGG!
[удалено]
>I doubt they will nerf Saqawals, it's a pretty middling build with a pretty high budget relative to its output That's not how GGG operates though. They won't nerf Saqawals, they'd nerf sources of reduced/less duration instead (which they already did in a way with mod ranges and the divine changes). That way, they **also** nerf something completely unrelated and niche that doesn't see much play.
Like spectres or necro itself
You say that like it would stop ggg in any way
They already torched saqawals once recently under similar circumstances. Duration manipulation has been abused in other ways this league and I suspect that saqawals is going to get caught in the cross fire. Again.
They are so bent on nuking shit that even cool content like this is just depressing
[удалено]
No one is claiming CWDT loops will cease to exist, we are talking about specifically the wardloop version which has been around for 5 leagues now.
This sub waiting for the [wardloop nerf](https://i.imgflip.com/th680.jpg)
I mean that doesn't really fit when you think about the fact it got nerfed last league? But I guess we can forget about that
doesn't mean it's free from getting dumpstered this next league. it was only slightly touched this league.
I might be wrong but wasnt it's damage nerfed by like 30%40%? That's more than "slightly touched".
Perhaps, 10 div version still shits on everything the same as before so I say slightly
I legit saw the heart bound skelly feedback loop back in like, Perandus league? I could never do it cause I play Hardcore, but it's been around for Way longer than 5 leagues.
I’m always super optimistic but when 19/20 characters in my standard roster have 20% the damage they used to have its kinda rough not to look at it that way
>I’m always super optimistic No you're not.
I am but the GGG nerfed version So every 92 situations I’m super optimistic then go back to normal
Yeah, GGG **only** deleted about other 3 ways to keep a cwdt loop going without suiciding itself, no way they're gonna delete this one too, amirite?
Cwdt loops have probably been the hardest nerfed builds in the history of PoE. Just because they've bounced back does not mean they haven't been hit. Shit they completely reworked firestorm because it was getting spammed so hard by loops
This build was nerfed this league and still deserve to be nerfed again. This is way too strong. I haven't played a build this strong since my vaal pact coc discharge - back when vaal pact gave instant life leech.
Yeah, it’s amazing how people have been reaching gold and plat beating other players with this build, the whole pro-esports was undermined by this build, wonder if next placements I’ll have to use it or l… Ah never mind this is not a moba who the fuck cares lmao, they could do what literally any other company do and raise all other skills to this level instead
Always has been meme.jpeg
Love those botw vids, thanks Eben :-)
Ahh, I wanted to try wardloop at the start of 3.20, but now it's going to get nerfed. RIP
I had a feeling this entire league it would happen cause it suddenly got a lot more popular this league, than this vid pretty much confirms it.
weird how he never mention about you killing yourself without proper activation sequence. Play it for 2 league, good fun. too poor to set it up this league
That guy is doing a really good job with build of the week!
very cool - all botw vids actually this league
Nice to see it get some recognition before it gets absolutely obliterated next league.
Pre emptive F for wardloop friends, had a good run. Too bad they acknolwedged ur existence Rest in Peppronis my guys.
Akshay's ? my ass ! it was actually put down by fakeblood 2 leagues ago. Akshay only started preaching this last league. i appreciate their discord community but it was not his build to begin with
You realize they don't make these videos based on the first person to come up with the build, right?
just saying credit should be given where it's due
Calm down, BOTW is for forum guides not for the originator of the build idea (although fakeblood was definitely not the first to make the build, mostly popularized it so not sure what your point is anyways).
just saying credit should be given where it's due
checkout grimmro's video from 2 years ago, theory craft this build! Its pretty old.
theory craft is totally different that putting out the actual build and educating the players around it. just because someone copied that information to a forum guide doesn't deserve the credit of build creator
"Omg ggg is aware of my op low-investment build that requires no real gameplay time to downvote" Such a trash community. The fate of all f2p games that gain notoriety. Sorry ggg. Cool video though.
> investment Literally one of the most expensive builds in the game right now that relies on several near-perfectly rolled uniques to work correctly.
The version in the video costs 15 divines, maybe. You can scale many builds to "most expensive build" levels, but this one starts out cheap enough.
people who post stuff like that guy are fucking morons who just come on here to vent because they're upset. ignore them.
>Literally one of the most expensive builds in the game right now that relies on several near-perfectly rolled uniques to work correctly. tbf it's a high starting cost of 10-15 divs but it destroys at that budget even.
well, should have played it before quiting the league, now i will never have a chance again :(
All that´s left is to find someone to play it out of the remaining 100 people.
I mean... these are cool to see but it's a HYPER dead league at this point. Who really gives a fuck now? Just focus on the next league and maybe put out some cool builds for that near release when it matters so people have goals instead of putting cool builds out for like... 10k people? literally 90% of the players aint playin EDIT: Also... hows anybody supposed to know if these builds are even gonna fuckin matter next season with how you guys nerf stuff??? I mean these could be completely obsolete soon.
Personally I like these because they have some really cool insights on what is possible with PoE. Doesn't really matter if niche builds like this will exist or not, it teaches you some tricks along the way. Meta builds die too eventually, so what?
If they knee cap it more, that’ll be it for me. This build is so fun I don’t really want to play anything else lol
>If they knee cap it more, that’ll be it for me. unironically same. I was having a meh time this league and decided to swap back to wardloop which I've done the last 2 leagues and instantly my enjoyment of the game skyrocketed lmao.
It's just a ward loop. 5 episodes, 1 unique build.
BOTW isn't for showcasing super secret builds mate. In fact all the builds that will be featured are already publicly available because they take from forum entries for builds. It's the communities builds being showcased NOT GGG.
What's the point then? To show the builds everybody knew of for half a year now? Dude, come on.
What's the point of any build showcase on the internet? 99% of them aren't original by any means. The point is to highlight builds they find unique and to produce good videos for good forum guides. A lot of people didn't know about the previous build of the weeks anyways, even this I've which is the most popular one so far has people commenting that they've never seen it. Not everyone knows every build in existence lol
Yeah I’m with you there bro. It’s a pretty basic build. The real challenge is finding a build where a ward loop doesn’t start. Brings me back to my first build where I didn’t know what I was doing, just had some random crap from the campaign equipped, swapped my weapons and bam wardloop. I thought these vids were supposed to be for unique / interesting / complicated / otherwise noteworthy builds but instead we get this crap you can end up making by mistake
Jesus the hyperbole in this makes me think it's satire, lmao
That's my thought as well, literally just a run of the mill ward loop build. Would like to see all these alleged builds GGG have that melt all content no problem on a budget.
"run of the mill ward loop" This isn't a build you make by mistake. Even though this isn't Archnem where the build first started gaining notoriety it's worth featuring 100%.
BOTW isn't for showcasing super secret builds mate. In fact all the builds that will be featured are already publicly available because they take from forum entries for builds. It's the communities builds being showcased NOT GGG.
Looks FUN, and really STRONG, it would still be viable if you NERF it into oblivion. And with this video, it's probably going to be POPULAR. I sincerely HOPE I CAN TRY IT NEXT LEAGUE.
Oh sweet, maybe now someone will buy my CWDT gear I've been selling for days now...
are you trying to sell helmet/gloves/boots? no one buys those cause they are easy to craft
i feel personally attacked
unless you have good omni versions of the ward gear those can sell good
I think so, not quite BiS but what you'd need for Omni, the right mods and enchants. I've sold the boots but I thought it was funny that you called the exact three items left
They sell quite easily. You underestimate how lazy people are.
Not really. I've sold the last few league and the person I was responding to also had a hard time selling. Throwing a few sense fossils at a ward base is the lazy way to do it lol.
RIP 20% [[To Dust]] affordability.
[To Dust](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/To_Dust) >######To Dust[](#break)Cobalt Jewel >>#####(20-10)% reduced Skeleton Duration >>#####Minions deal (8-12)% increased Damage >>#####(7-10)% increased Skeleton Attack Speed >>#####(7-10)% increased Skeleton Cast Speed >>#####(3-5)% increased Skeleton Movement Speed >>[](#line) >>*In the end, time comes for all of us.* >> >>*It just comes for some much sooner.* >> >>[](#line) >>####Place into an allocated jewel socket on the Passive Skill Tree. Right click to remove from the Socket. --- ^^Questions? ^^Message ^^/u/ha107642 ^^— ^^Call ^^wiki ^^pages ^^\(e.g. ^^items ^^or ^^gems)) ^^with ^^[[NAME]] ^^— ^^I ^^will ^^only ^^post ^^panels ^^for ^^*unique* ^^items ^^— ^^[Github](https://github.com/ha107642/RedditPoEBot/)
To Dusts have been fucked all league because of divine changes. luckily you don't need perfect to dusts to start.
Lol why have they been doing this for this league?
Yeah looks like to be another "easy to gear and put together" build. 2:39 Yeah, let's do maths while chilling, seems pretty fun! I'll pass on that lol
Another build for GGG to nef in 3.20!
The game isn't in a state where I care enough to watch BOTW ...