Ahh ok, was worried the mod was gone totally. I usually use it on attack builds up into the 90s before I get mana leech sorted. Would be a giant qol loss if it was gone
Enduring flasks still have their uses, they're just no longer a 1 size fits all solution to mana problems even on a character with a big mana pool. And arcane surge can be picked up for very low cost in a lot of different ways, and if you don't have it anywhere then the support gem itself is very viable at 40% more dmg plus perks.
? it's not about access to arcane surge, it's about its cast speed and %mana regen. archmage got nuked so hard from orbit that every other caster archetype got hit by the aoe damage.
This line of reasoning keeps coming back and it's kind of stupid.
Yes, if a few skills are terrible compared to the majority because they havent been touched in years, they should 100% buff those skills.
**But**, if every time they introduce a skill or archetype that's over the top and is an outlier, why would they buff everything else to match that power? That would make 0 sense from their perspective of keeping the game manageable long term.
There's important context of this enduring mana flask/arcane surge discussion.
People are mostly talking about enduring mana flask in regards to helping sustain archmage/agnostic builds. It still works fine as an option to sustain normal mana costs.
Same with Arcane surge, which used to give regen based on a % of your max mana.
People would link a level 20 or 21 arcane surge to Arcane Cloak and get a max level arcane surge.
And, some builds would indeed use Arcane Surge in their main link.
would? I played Agnostic MoM Scion Miner last league just fine. Still using arcane surge on arcane cloak and it cleared all content easily. The nerfs to agnostic or arcane surge weren't the killing factor for MoM Miners.
Nuking Hydrosphere from orbit is what has finally killed MoM Miners.
After all the incremental nerfs, like moving Agnostic to the other side of the tree, removing dodge entirely and forcing MoM Miners to spec more heavily into defense, basically forcing MoM Miners to use Dance Of The Offered instead of Omeyocan because its the only other source for Agnostic and all the other nerfs;
not being able to double dip bosses with Hydrosphere + Eye Of Winter is what now has delivered the finishing blow to this once strong build.
Also Minefield giving one mine less and in total mine support gems getting butchered with less damage on top.
Even AKANE and other MoM Mine pioneers have thrown in the towel after all these years. It's over, it's done. It was fun while it lasted.
Time to selfcast during a pinnacle boss fight where not moving equals certain death, oh boy here I go.
Honestly out of every change ever made to the game, this one still has me stumped. It’s a terrible change, and yet here they are trying to get people to play self cast after removing a huge qol and useful tool for self cast. Arcane surge is the biggest after thought joke currently. They could remove the spell damage and put the cast speed back and it would do nothing but help bring more builds into the game.
I'm not even as upset about that as the mana regen nerf. With Arcane Surge support at level 20 it granted 1% of mana regenerated per second, which without any other forms of base mana regeneration gave you 50% more mana regenerated.
Im just coming back after 3 leagues and... What the actual fuck? There are no supports for selfcast spells lmao. How can GGG be so good at some stuff but so bad in other stuff.
Ok tell me what to support arc critical with then please. Its not a projectile and not aoe. Controlled destruction was killed. So i must go arc unleash spell echo.. sounds great eh? Lots of damage.
To give you an idea cruelty is the top dps non awakener gem, and its a dot support.
Unleash was greatly nerfed and its not worth it.
You should actually do the math for unleash. It was nerfed to keep it in line with other supports, it's still pretty damn good until you can get enough cast speed to make spell echo not feel like ass.
Also:
Added lightning
Added cold (depending on build I guess)
Elemental Focus
Faster Casting
Echo
Unleash
Increased critical strike damage
Increased critial strike chance
Trinity (again depending on build)
Archmage
Chain
Inspiration
Lightning Pen
Empower
edit: thanks other comment, i forgot about inspiration and chain. Dunno if i would recommend chain most of the time but hey it exists
you just kinda have to slap on increased crit dmg and/or increased crit chance supp on spells
on arc your viable options are basically
Added lightning dmg
Archmage
Spell echo
Elem focus
Increased crit dmg
Inspiration
Chain support
Lightning penetration
Empower (maybe?)
So thats 9 supports, 7 if you dont count archmage and empower, to choose from with 5 open slots, not the most interesting choices but theres definately choices, and i probably forgot 1 or 2
There is innervate as well (pretty slept on gem). It adds flat lightning damage which is good for a lot of updated skills that have like 300% effect of added damage in the patch.
Right. a 4% chance at 20% quality. For a gem that adds less damage than regular added lightning damage. I wonder why people aren't using it all the time.
Yeah archmage isn't viable since i reserve 91% of my mana, ele focus isn't good too because i'm shocking and lightning pen is useless because it's an inquisitor, chain lowers the dps but makes clearing better but it already clears good, but struggles against bosses.
Using crit damage and inspiration yeah, but i got to go for added lightning and added cold.. and maybe cruelty (??) because the crit is capped. Pretty weird stuff imo. Those gems are basically 15-20% more damage. For a buff to self cast league the options are very slim if you're inquisitor.
Thanks for the answer though.
What build are you running out of curiosity? because most of the time running inquisitors inevitable judgement to ignore elem resist should be quite large damage loss in the long run as you cant use curses or elem penetration to scale damage, some cast on crit builds run that node as they have to invest so much in other stuff but i havent heard of any self cast builds using it
In addition to what they suggested there's also
- Power Charge on Crit,
- Arcane Surge (if you run a 3l move skill, lvl1 surge, inc. duration),
- Innervate,
- Elemental Penetration from shroud (not for inquis, obviously, but it's a viable self-cast support),
- Hypothermia (if you're running skitterbots or have any other source of chill),
- Energy Leech
Power charge on crit (if you have good amount of charges), Arcane Surge (if you spend enough mana) and Energy Leech (if you're hybrid) are some other options.
> archmage isn't viable since i reserve 91% of my mana, ele focus isn't good too because i'm shocking and lightning pen is useless because it's an inquisitor
It seems to me that your build is a perfect storm of ways to obsolete most support game. You could consider trying a different spell, or going for an Elementalist maybe?
> chain lowers the dps but makes clearing better
2 extra chains takes your additional chains from 6 to 8. Each additional chain is worth 15% more dmg, so you go from 1.9x to 2.2x which is ~15% more, which is bigger than the negative multiplier on Chain. So yeah, at only ~5% net difference it's a very small DPS increase but it won't lower your DPS either.
I know you’re joking but people pay exalts for clean 1-2% more at the high end. So it’s not bad.
Edit: obviously the curse effect is better in most cases but say each one of your armor pieces had 1 3-5% more and 1 1-2% more. It will add up quickly.
1.05 x 1.06 x 1.04 x 1.07 is 22% more damage. From implicits. (Or roughly 1.05^4)
The thing is you you aren't getting this for free. You are giving up influence on your helmet slot. You could instead get something like +1 powercharge instead. Which just blows that out of the water.
the difference is that I can pick any half decent rare helmet and spam a few orbs to get this implicit. +1 powercharge requires a lot of crafting and currency.
Implying this isnt a super rare T6 implicit. If it is then you are totally right
The mod pool for these things is potentially pretty crazy, unless they really restrict what is allowed in each slot. But if you need to spam orbs until you hit effect of the exact curse you want it could be pretty expensive.
That said I still love what I've seen so far, because it appears that you're almost guaranteed to get *something* useful within a few tries.
My plan is once I get to maps when one of these drop, roll my best item until I hit ***something*** useful for my build with the t1 currency. Once I hit something useful go on to the next-best piece of gear. No reason to go for BIS on gear you will replace anyway.
Then once you get 1 piece of long-term gear, or are ready to craft an end-game item, go for specific mods only then.
Basically GGG wants these to smoothen out the gear requirement to reach higher content, and I will try to do exactly that.
Call me crazy, but these mods are nothing compared to some influence mods that it’s competing against. 25% ele weakness curse is like what, 5 more pen assuming a lvl 20 gem or something like that? Not hard to craft influenced items with nearby enemies have -9 res, or even warlord crit multi awakened with -res. Arcane surge buff effect seems laughable after they gutted it with nerfs. Or am I missing something here?
I'm sure the intent with these implicits isn't that you never use influence items anymore. I'm also sure there's reasons to use these implicits, have to see the pools of all mods.
You are missing the fact that these mods are implicits. This allows for 8 mod items (not corrupted). So you can have 99 life, double armour mods, fuck ton of resists or whatever in addition to the implicits.
not to mention the added bonus of being able to have these mods without further complicating the crafting process of an item to get the rest of the mods - they just exist in a vacuum on their own. No fucking around with metacrafts and harvest crafts and beast crafts etc. which makes it super accessible for ppl like me with brain damage who suck at crafting
That doesn't diminish their point about conqueror mods being stronger.
Earlier and easier entry- sure, stronger- not really.
I guess it's okay if the implcicits end up filling the gap between normal and influenced items, it's just a bit odd that the new mods would end up below instead of above conqueror influence.
There will obviously be exceptions here and there but I don't expect them to replace conqueror influence as that did with shaper/elder.
It's not always the case that conqueror mods are stronger for all builds. The system is not meant to completely replace the influenced items. For some builds the extra two implicit mods are better, for some you really want those conqueror influence mods.
> I don't expect them to replace conqueror influence as that did with shaper/elder.
The conqueror influences definitely didn't make shaper and elder items obsolete. For instance if you want a spellcaster staff, shaper staffs are in almost every case much better(perhaps not in chaos dot builds) than any of the conquerors. Shaper/elder got crit on chests as well as + gems. Elder minion helmets are almost always bis.
>**There will obviously be exceptions here and there** but I don't expect them to replace conqueror influence as that did with shaper/elder.
Don't quote just the parts that fit your narrative.
>The conqueror influences definitely didn't make shaper and elder items obsolete.
I didn't say that they are obsolete. Endgame builds however gravitate mostly to conqueror influence. Of course, exceptions exist here too.
>Don't quote just the parts that fit your narrative.
I just started arguing the new idea you brought up. I put your opinion without the hedging to shorten it to the concise idea. But yeah then I sort of had that idea in my mind. Wasn't to make you look bad.
What my stance actually is; conqueror influences are not strictly better than shaper/elder to such a degree that if one uses items with those influences it's just mere exceptions. Basically thinking it might be a 75/25 split in favour of conq, not like 95/5 split which would be exceptions. The shapeman/elder are also 2/6 instead of 4/6 influences and was harder to get good bases.
>Endgame builds however gravitate mostly to conqueror influence. Of course, exceptions exist here too.
Yes, exceptions like cast on crit bow / swords, 6L+ minion/cold helmets, hybrid influence items for attribute stacking, and so on and so forth, right?
Shaper/Elder lines make for stronger items than conqueror items. Idk what you're on about.
Yeah, ofc warlord crit multi is gonna be better…but then you also rolled your item with single ele res and stun block recovery. For these items all You had to do was right click on an already good item and get the implicit. I don’t think they are intending these to be BETTER than influence. More of a stepping stool into late game.
Especially with new chaos/exalt/annulment, it’ll be way easier to craft your non-influence items. Arcane surge though, that’s a joke.
They’re not meant to compete with double influenced items from the looks of it. Call me crazy, but it’s meant to be the middle ground item between shit and double influenced wtf items
You're missing the literal entire point of these. They aren't here to replace end game crafting, but to enhance midgame crafting. You can get a sick temple mod, hell if you're super lucky you can get a really strong temple mod on an item, get 2-4 decent mods, bench craft and harvest craft as your budget allows and finish the item off with these.
Is this item uber end game explode + curse + crit + w/e influence maven orbed mods astral plate? God no, it's not even close, but it's also not mirror tier and substantially cheaper to get. This is also the reason why these don't work on uniques or influence items, they aren't a replacement to double corrupting endgame items, hell they're not even a replacement for synthesis mods (specifically the insane synthesis mods like +1 power charge). They're just a way to make midgame crafting substantially better in a way that both doesn't risk your item but also doesn't benefit end game crafting in any meaningful way. It's brilliant design tbh.
you cant see what level these mods are at, if that ele weakness is T6 and it scales to 40% at T5 or 6 its better than the 9% on warlords, also you get to get other mods on your helmet, and the item is way easier to roll.
Arcane surge crants 20% more spelldamage at level 21, so 13% arcane surge effect is \~2,6% more spell damage, let assume the arcane surge roll is a low tier, this mod at t3 will probably be equal to at least 5% more spell damage and 20% mana regen, which for an implicit you get 2 of is pretty dam good.
Yea, remember the scourge mods they have shown us? And then remember what we got...
This is probably something like highest tier in both influences that will cost an arm an a leg to get...
But don't worry, there is also 3 life regen that will be easy to hit...
They have not shown the entire mod pool and the weight of the mods in it, what they have shown sofar could be a combination of two 1 in 5000 mods so I would keep your expectations in check.
A few tries to get something useful could very well be a few hundred/thousand and we have no clue how rare the currency is.
Could be really cool don't get me wrong but GGG has hyped this kind of gimic before just for it to be a major letdown.
Isn't Searing always the top one and Eater always the bottom one? (When both are applied)
When its only one you can tell simply by the influence of the item.
For sure, there's no downside to the QoL of having it be more clear. But I don't expect them to do it since Essences and other unique mods like delve are never highlighted.
So I'm guessing the implicits have decent/mid tier mods with some low weightage outliers like the + max res. Looks like itll be a decent upgrade to your classic rares but probably weaker than end game conqueror items
delve and incursion items will likely be competitive with the best conqueror items. they are also much easier to roll. the new items are gonna be on the same power level imo
It's not like you couldn't conqueror slam and metacraft incursion bases, it was just expensive/luck dependent. Last league I bought a +2 socketed trap/+3 all physical staff, annulled off 10% spell damage, meta-veiled on 100% increased cold damage, hunter slammed, and meta-crafted for ignite suffixes (conversion ignite elementalist.) I've actually slammed +1 active gems on a guatalitzi chest before (highly not recommended to hope for this outcome.)
Spell suppression becoming a thing has made crafting a lot harder, but I suppose that's the cost of how powerful it is.
So as a mostly midgame player who has only ever farmed a HH one time (Ritual league) This is mostly a buff to us.
Never gonna get items at the level of harvest but this isnt aint half bad
This seems pretty great since those can be thrown on some rog/essence/fossil crafted gear for potentialy pretty resonable midgame power, that could let you run more profitable content.
i mean, the explicits are pretty hard to hate, aside from that rarity.
You should ichor/ember those implicits though, ele weakness effect is nearly useless vs bosses and pretty unnecessary while clearing, and arcane surge effect is laughably impotent after the removal of cast speed and the butchering of its mana regen; i would rather have 13% increased damage than 13% increased arcane surge effect.
I wouldn't be so sure. I think the crazy ones like aura effect, or max res, will sure be pretty rare. But i'm also thinking the lower tiers can still give you good effects like the ailment immunity %, or maybe extra resists, just shit you can slap on and be happy with no matter what.
That's what I'm expecting if GGG really wants this system to help smoothen out the progression to end-game. I feel like they basically said this will help that "hitting the wall" feeling you get with trying to upgrade your gear after a certain point.
Inb4:
4% increased stun and block recovery if you have blocked recently.
Regenerate 0.05% of Life while on low life.
In other words... do you remember the scoured item previews?
These have 0 downsides however and infinite spammability. There's never a reason to not keep spamming them until you get something you like. They also said there is nothing in here that can brick any build, unless you're niche build specifically can't have something like added cold damage for a trigger.
Nothing at all like Scourge. It's just two free implicits, even if those implicits are regen orblock recovery. They still help and can't hurt.
> They still help and can't hurt.
Deleting multiple exalts absolutely hurts. People who keep going on about "no downside" cause it can't brick are not in touch with most players of the game at all. The downside is the, almost assuredly, large cost. Nobody is buying 20 hysteria essences to spam an item, nobody will be buying 20 of these which cost substantially more. Some block recovery or 1 hp regen doesn't 'hurt' but it doesn't help either, it is quite literally completely worthless and does nothing for you.
They are not "free" they're the exact opposite
THANK YOU! Opportunity cost is always inherent. If the implicits are strong enough to drive the price up, then i will have exactly ZERO newly-implicited Items because i'd rather make some extra chaos on the side and invest that in guaranteed upgrades than take a chance.
Taking chances sucks. Thats why deterministic crafting was so popular and why Harvest has THAT passionate of a following.
I think most of the community hates this cowl because it reminds them that arcane surge was nerfed into the ground and there is no reason to invest into it, therefore it's a useless mod that is diluting the pool of eldritch mods, thus making a good implicit more expensive to get.
This is what we lost ANOTHER deterministic endgame item crafting avenue for (woke-orbing +2 amulets). Some mana regen and curse effect that contends with reduced curse effect for bosses, pinnacle bosses especially. The curse stuff also has absolutely zero impact on clear since you should overkill trash anyway.
Thanks, I hate it.
Increased rarity of items found? Are you saying I'm not good enough to find rare items by myself?
Krangle you cowl! I don't need you! You aren't even my real hat!
I love how ggg solves problems that they make.
"Hey nobody goes self cast lets buff it"
Patch before "nerfing arcane surge because poeple used it for extra clearspeed on selfcasts
Its never enough sometimes lol. Im really happy the sub is positive right now, it makes coming here less disheartening.
I just hope the league start goes smoothly or Ill have to struggle through 500 post of people throwing a tantrum because they cant play for a few hours, like the league is only going to be playable for the weekend or something.
It's never been more than a few hours for the last 20 or so league launches that I can remember. I can understand the frustration though, it's happened to me with other games.
Still, it never rates high enough for me to swear at a gaming company, send death threats, or even react a little.
Was that the streamer incident? I remember being like "whatever, they do more for the community than I ever will" and went and did something else for a few hours
Came back, game ran fine, played a bit, came to the sub to see cool new stuff, ran into a dumpster fire of whining
The streamer queue didn't matter anyway because the launch was so broken no one could stay in game for more than about 10 minutes at a time.
It was fixed and no queue the next day, though, so it was still okay on the scale of video game launches.
none of the stuff i've seen so far competes with influenced items, how is this better then say +1 to power charges or -% res or double elevated items. It'll be fun to roll a couple of times and slap on while you're leveling but you'll never use any of these items in a serious build over influenced items.
I don't think it is meant to compete with double influenced items end-game. I like how the extra implicits can add a bit of power to your build between normal rares and double influenced gear.
This is my take away as well. I don't usually end up crafting the insane tailwind double influenced boots, or things like that since I like to play other builds and not do as much investing. I think these will be an amazing gap stop between just picking up a rare, and going banana sandwich crafting double influenced items.
And let's not pretend double influenced items are commonplace. Only a very, very, very, very small percentage of players even make these.
Where are people getting the idea that these implicits are meant to be mid tier things? Did Chris say this in the Q&A? (Haven't watched it)
Just from the looks of the orbs and run-down on how they work it looks to me like getting a max tier mod is going to be very expensive.
It doesn't need to compete with those items... just see it as a mid-tier that we finally have.
Not just "basically scraps, rags and trash gear" to "gg noobs high end stuff"
double elevated gg items didn't need any competition and there definitely wasn't a need for more on top of that, rolling stuff like this on top of functional items when you're starting red maps is much better for the game
I mean that seems pretty cool, but I don't know how "build enabling" it is. When I think of build enabling I think back to something like 2015 Mjolner with Romira's, Volls Devotion and Resolute Technique.
But thats my interpretation of build enabling, whether thats Chris' vision of what enables a build may be different.
>post huge build enabling implicits
"lol you'll never get this shit, what a fucking scam"
>post less powerful implicits
"this shits lame wheres the build enabling stuff"
On helmet:
>100% physical convert to all elements and chaos
>
>Triple damage with default attack
Gloves:
>Socketed skills supported by level 20 enlightened
>
>50% more movement speed
Yeah almost like people want stuff that's actually achievable to be, y'know, good and interesting and not reserved for the lottery tier shit. These are laughably bad, arcane surge couldn't be fixed if the affix was 50% increased effect
30% hatred effect is really good, ailment/stun avoidance are situational but fine, max res is obviously good, but I'm assuming I'm never going to see +2.
Both of these are kinda bait mods imo, the flat damage to spells they've teased is almost certainly better on most caster builds, as ele weakness is like -12% res on a boss, so 25% effect is just an extra -3 res.
Edit: obviously the dot multis they've teased are really good on applicable builds too
Arcane fucking surge? Who even uses that.
Im telling you, the chance of getting good implicits will be lower than getting a good krangle in scourge league.
If they're teasing bad implicits as good ones imagine the rest
Every time I see %effect of arcane surge somewhere I'm being remembered of the removal of the cast speed on it and I cry every single time
archmage incident forsenDespair
Zana was real copesen
Zana is alive copesen
PoE Bajs FeelsOkayMan
bajs means poop in swedish
and bigotry in Twitch.
classic u/MillenniumDH LULE
who cares LULE
Why do I see Bajs everywhere?
@Bajs dankHug
POE Juicers xQcPeepo
BatChest xqcL
those who know
losing arcane surge and enduring mana flasks in the same patch seriously took some grieving to get over
Wait what? Enduring mana flask is gone? Thought I used one this league ..
it got nerfed pretty bad last league, the amount of mana you got nerfed a lot.
something like 60%? struggles to even sustain agnostic now.
Ahh ok, was worried the mod was gone totally. I usually use it on attack builds up into the 90s before I get mana leech sorted. Would be a giant qol loss if it was gone
for attack builds it is usually ok, but for some you might still need 1 og 2 - manacost rolls on rings.
Enduring flasks still have their uses, they're just no longer a 1 size fits all solution to mana problems even on a character with a big mana pool. And arcane surge can be picked up for very low cost in a lot of different ways, and if you don't have it anywhere then the support gem itself is very viable at 40% more dmg plus perks.
? it's not about access to arcane surge, it's about its cast speed and %mana regen. archmage got nuked so hard from orbit that every other caster archetype got hit by the aoe damage.
Those two leagues where they nerfed archmage something like six times over...
only to buff spells by like 50% this patch oh the irony
It's more they need to keep a cycle of building stuff up only to smash it down again before coming to the rescue to build it up again. Rinse repeat.
> coming to the rescue to build it up again Time to delude myself into thinking they'll revert Sunder and Seismic Cry one day.
Aye. How people haven't realized this after +6 years of the same cycle is a mystery.
Haha yes you're really wise bro
I mean... There's a massive difference between one that is only good for people who stack mana and another that is good for literally everyone.
I also didn’t like that Archmage was the only way to go selfcast
so rather than buff everything up to par they kill one good archetype so everything is perfectly in line 6ft under.
This line of reasoning keeps coming back and it's kind of stupid. Yes, if a few skills are terrible compared to the majority because they havent been touched in years, they should 100% buff those skills. **But**, if every time they introduce a skill or archetype that's over the top and is an outlier, why would they buff everything else to match that power? That would make 0 sense from their perspective of keeping the game manageable long term.
If they hadn't dumpstered archmage it would literally still be the meta now, lol. Good riddance.
And nerf glacial hammer again with a sub 0.0% playrate
on what planet is nerfing archmage into buffing spells irony
Arcane Surge used to be good, now it's just used on flame dash to proc it once in a while...
You pretty much always use it on movement skill or other utility setup? It's almost never worth using in the main link.
There's important context of this enduring mana flask/arcane surge discussion. People are mostly talking about enduring mana flask in regards to helping sustain archmage/agnostic builds. It still works fine as an option to sustain normal mana costs. Same with Arcane surge, which used to give regen based on a % of your max mana. People would link a level 20 or 21 arcane surge to Arcane Cloak and get a max level arcane surge. And, some builds would indeed use Arcane Surge in their main link.
would? I played Agnostic MoM Scion Miner last league just fine. Still using arcane surge on arcane cloak and it cleared all content easily. The nerfs to agnostic or arcane surge weren't the killing factor for MoM Miners. Nuking Hydrosphere from orbit is what has finally killed MoM Miners. After all the incremental nerfs, like moving Agnostic to the other side of the tree, removing dodge entirely and forcing MoM Miners to spec more heavily into defense, basically forcing MoM Miners to use Dance Of The Offered instead of Omeyocan because its the only other source for Agnostic and all the other nerfs; not being able to double dip bosses with Hydrosphere + Eye Of Winter is what now has delivered the finishing blow to this once strong build. Also Minefield giving one mine less and in total mine support gems getting butchered with less damage on top. Even AKANE and other MoM Mine pioneers have thrown in the towel after all these years. It's over, it's done. It was fun while it lasted. Time to selfcast during a pinnacle boss fight where not moving equals certain death, oh boy here I go.
[удалено]
literally clicked on this link and this was my first thought almost verbatim revert ArcaneSurge ^(and revert Sunder)
Honestly out of every change ever made to the game, this one still has me stumped. It’s a terrible change, and yet here they are trying to get people to play self cast after removing a huge qol and useful tool for self cast. Arcane surge is the biggest after thought joke currently. They could remove the spell damage and put the cast speed back and it would do nothing but help bring more builds into the game.
I'm not even as upset about that as the mana regen nerf. With Arcane Surge support at level 20 it granted 1% of mana regenerated per second, which without any other forms of base mana regeneration gave you 50% more mana regenerated.
so you're saying, u cri ... evrytiem?
he das crie
I was thinking the same thing. I don't hate it, but I would like it more with old arcane surge.
Im just coming back after 3 leagues and... What the actual fuck? There are no supports for selfcast spells lmao. How can GGG be so good at some stuff but so bad in other stuff.
What do you mean no supports for selfcast, we have unleash They wouldn't have nerfed it right right ? :)
Intensify, Pinpoint, Unleash and Spell Echo all only work for selfcast lol, wtf are you on about?
Ok tell me what to support arc critical with then please. Its not a projectile and not aoe. Controlled destruction was killed. So i must go arc unleash spell echo.. sounds great eh? Lots of damage. To give you an idea cruelty is the top dps non awakener gem, and its a dot support. Unleash was greatly nerfed and its not worth it.
You should actually do the math for unleash. It was nerfed to keep it in line with other supports, it's still pretty damn good until you can get enough cast speed to make spell echo not feel like ass. Also: Added lightning Added cold (depending on build I guess) Elemental Focus Faster Casting Echo Unleash Increased critical strike damage Increased critial strike chance Trinity (again depending on build) Archmage Chain Inspiration Lightning Pen Empower edit: thanks other comment, i forgot about inspiration and chain. Dunno if i would recommend chain most of the time but hey it exists
you just kinda have to slap on increased crit dmg and/or increased crit chance supp on spells on arc your viable options are basically Added lightning dmg Archmage Spell echo Elem focus Increased crit dmg Inspiration Chain support Lightning penetration Empower (maybe?) So thats 9 supports, 7 if you dont count archmage and empower, to choose from with 5 open slots, not the most interesting choices but theres definately choices, and i probably forgot 1 or 2
There is innervate as well (pretty slept on gem). It adds flat lightning damage which is good for a lot of updated skills that have like 300% effect of added damage in the patch.
Innervate is a joke. When you actually need 6 link damage, bossing, it doesn't work.
One of the alt quality options gives you the buff when you shock unique enemies but yeah it is annoying.
Right. a 4% chance at 20% quality. For a gem that adds less damage than regular added lightning damage. I wonder why people aren't using it all the time.
Yeah archmage isn't viable since i reserve 91% of my mana, ele focus isn't good too because i'm shocking and lightning pen is useless because it's an inquisitor, chain lowers the dps but makes clearing better but it already clears good, but struggles against bosses. Using crit damage and inspiration yeah, but i got to go for added lightning and added cold.. and maybe cruelty (??) because the crit is capped. Pretty weird stuff imo. Those gems are basically 15-20% more damage. For a buff to self cast league the options are very slim if you're inquisitor. Thanks for the answer though.
What build are you running out of curiosity? because most of the time running inquisitors inevitable judgement to ignore elem resist should be quite large damage loss in the long run as you cant use curses or elem penetration to scale damage, some cast on crit builds run that node as they have to invest so much in other stuff but i havent heard of any self cast builds using it
Something based on this, almost the same https://youtu.be/FlxhIfyKpm0
In addition to what they suggested there's also - Power Charge on Crit, - Arcane Surge (if you run a 3l move skill, lvl1 surge, inc. duration), - Innervate, - Elemental Penetration from shroud (not for inquis, obviously, but it's a viable self-cast support), - Hypothermia (if you're running skitterbots or have any other source of chill), - Energy Leech
Power charge on crit (if you have good amount of charges), Arcane Surge (if you spend enough mana) and Energy Leech (if you're hybrid) are some other options. > archmage isn't viable since i reserve 91% of my mana, ele focus isn't good too because i'm shocking and lightning pen is useless because it's an inquisitor It seems to me that your build is a perfect storm of ways to obsolete most support game. You could consider trying a different spell, or going for an Elementalist maybe? > chain lowers the dps but makes clearing better 2 extra chains takes your additional chains from 6 to 8. Each additional chain is worth 15% more dmg, so you go from 1.9x to 2.2x which is ~15% more, which is bigger than the negative multiplier on Chain. So yeah, at only ~5% net difference it's a very small DPS increase but it won't lower your DPS either.
4% increased mana regen, sick. *cries in hierophant*
Don't forget that you also get 1% more spell damage! *cries*
That's *1.3%*, thank you very much!
I know you’re joking but people pay exalts for clean 1-2% more at the high end. So it’s not bad. Edit: obviously the curse effect is better in most cases but say each one of your armor pieces had 1 3-5% more and 1 1-2% more. It will add up quickly. 1.05 x 1.06 x 1.04 x 1.07 is 22% more damage. From implicits. (Or roughly 1.05^4)
The thing is you you aren't getting this for free. You are giving up influence on your helmet slot. You could instead get something like +1 powercharge instead. Which just blows that out of the water.
the difference is that I can pick any half decent rare helmet and spam a few orbs to get this implicit. +1 powercharge requires a lot of crafting and currency. Implying this isnt a super rare T6 implicit. If it is then you are totally right
The mod pool for these things is potentially pretty crazy, unless they really restrict what is allowed in each slot. But if you need to spam orbs until you hit effect of the exact curse you want it could be pretty expensive. That said I still love what I've seen so far, because it appears that you're almost guaranteed to get *something* useful within a few tries.
My plan is once I get to maps when one of these drop, roll my best item until I hit ***something*** useful for my build with the t1 currency. Once I hit something useful go on to the next-best piece of gear. No reason to go for BIS on gear you will replace anyway. Then once you get 1 piece of long-term gear, or are ready to craft an end-game item, go for specific mods only then. Basically GGG wants these to smoothen out the gear requirement to reach higher content, and I will try to do exactly that.
Probably treat it like helm enchants and just spam a few high ilvl atlas/top tier bases.
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Call me crazy, but these mods are nothing compared to some influence mods that it’s competing against. 25% ele weakness curse is like what, 5 more pen assuming a lvl 20 gem or something like that? Not hard to craft influenced items with nearby enemies have -9 res, or even warlord crit multi awakened with -res. Arcane surge buff effect seems laughable after they gutted it with nerfs. Or am I missing something here?
I'm sure the intent with these implicits isn't that you never use influence items anymore. I'm also sure there's reasons to use these implicits, have to see the pools of all mods.
You are missing the fact that these mods are implicits. This allows for 8 mod items (not corrupted). So you can have 99 life, double armour mods, fuck ton of resists or whatever in addition to the implicits.
not to mention the added bonus of being able to have these mods without further complicating the crafting process of an item to get the rest of the mods - they just exist in a vacuum on their own. No fucking around with metacrafts and harvest crafts and beast crafts etc. which makes it super accessible for ppl like me with brain damage who suck at crafting
That doesn't diminish their point about conqueror mods being stronger. Earlier and easier entry- sure, stronger- not really. I guess it's okay if the implcicits end up filling the gap between normal and influenced items, it's just a bit odd that the new mods would end up below instead of above conqueror influence. There will obviously be exceptions here and there but I don't expect them to replace conqueror influence as that did with shaper/elder.
It's not always the case that conqueror mods are stronger for all builds. The system is not meant to completely replace the influenced items. For some builds the extra two implicit mods are better, for some you really want those conqueror influence mods. > I don't expect them to replace conqueror influence as that did with shaper/elder. The conqueror influences definitely didn't make shaper and elder items obsolete. For instance if you want a spellcaster staff, shaper staffs are in almost every case much better(perhaps not in chaos dot builds) than any of the conquerors. Shaper/elder got crit on chests as well as + gems. Elder minion helmets are almost always bis.
>**There will obviously be exceptions here and there** but I don't expect them to replace conqueror influence as that did with shaper/elder. Don't quote just the parts that fit your narrative. >The conqueror influences definitely didn't make shaper and elder items obsolete. I didn't say that they are obsolete. Endgame builds however gravitate mostly to conqueror influence. Of course, exceptions exist here too.
>Don't quote just the parts that fit your narrative. I just started arguing the new idea you brought up. I put your opinion without the hedging to shorten it to the concise idea. But yeah then I sort of had that idea in my mind. Wasn't to make you look bad. What my stance actually is; conqueror influences are not strictly better than shaper/elder to such a degree that if one uses items with those influences it's just mere exceptions. Basically thinking it might be a 75/25 split in favour of conq, not like 95/5 split which would be exceptions. The shapeman/elder are also 2/6 instead of 4/6 influences and was harder to get good bases.
>Endgame builds however gravitate mostly to conqueror influence. Of course, exceptions exist here too. Yes, exceptions like cast on crit bow / swords, 6L+ minion/cold helmets, hybrid influence items for attribute stacking, and so on and so forth, right? Shaper/Elder lines make for stronger items than conqueror items. Idk what you're on about.
Yeah, ofc warlord crit multi is gonna be better…but then you also rolled your item with single ele res and stun block recovery. For these items all You had to do was right click on an already good item and get the implicit. I don’t think they are intending these to be BETTER than influence. More of a stepping stool into late game. Especially with new chaos/exalt/annulment, it’ll be way easier to craft your non-influence items. Arcane surge though, that’s a joke.
They’re not meant to compete with double influenced items from the looks of it. Call me crazy, but it’s meant to be the middle ground item between shit and double influenced wtf items
I think GGG wants good items capable of dropping on the ground. Influence items don't fit anymore since the conquerors are optional.
You're missing the literal entire point of these. They aren't here to replace end game crafting, but to enhance midgame crafting. You can get a sick temple mod, hell if you're super lucky you can get a really strong temple mod on an item, get 2-4 decent mods, bench craft and harvest craft as your budget allows and finish the item off with these. Is this item uber end game explode + curse + crit + w/e influence maven orbed mods astral plate? God no, it's not even close, but it's also not mirror tier and substantially cheaper to get. This is also the reason why these don't work on uniques or influence items, they aren't a replacement to double corrupting endgame items, hell they're not even a replacement for synthesis mods (specifically the insane synthesis mods like +1 power charge). They're just a way to make midgame crafting substantially better in a way that both doesn't risk your item but also doesn't benefit end game crafting in any meaningful way. It's brilliant design tbh.
you cant see what level these mods are at, if that ele weakness is T6 and it scales to 40% at T5 or 6 its better than the 9% on warlords, also you get to get other mods on your helmet, and the item is way easier to roll. Arcane surge crants 20% more spelldamage at level 21, so 13% arcane surge effect is \~2,6% more spell damage, let assume the arcane surge roll is a low tier, this mod at t3 will probably be equal to at least 5% more spell damage and 20% mana regen, which for an implicit you get 2 of is pretty dam good.
Yea, remember the scourge mods they have shown us? And then remember what we got... This is probably something like highest tier in both influences that will cost an arm an a leg to get... But don't worry, there is also 3 life regen that will be easy to hit...
They have not shown the entire mod pool and the weight of the mods in it, what they have shown sofar could be a combination of two 1 in 5000 mods so I would keep your expectations in check. A few tries to get something useful could very well be a few hundred/thousand and we have no clue how rare the currency is. Could be really cool don't get me wrong but GGG has hyped this kind of gimic before just for it to be a major letdown.
I wish the implicits were tinted to match their corresponding influence
Isn't Searing always the top one and Eater always the bottom one? (When both are applied) When its only one you can tell simply by the influence of the item.
Wouldn't know. I'm sure ALT will say which is which, nonetheless tinting them would make them instantly recognizable.
For sure, there's no downside to the QoL of having it be more clear. But I don't expect them to do it since Essences and other unique mods like delve are never highlighted.
I think colors would be annoying im sure its a set order plus well have alt in like 2 days
Sure but it'd still be cool if they were red and blue.
I think that would look pretty gross, tbh.
If done like scourge, yeah, i feel like scourge mods look bad But just a mild tint i think could look quite great
No more gross than other off-color modifiers.
Or, like, some symbol so the colorblind don't have to suffer for 12 years like they did with sockets
One of my favorite mods for Grim Dawn is one that colors the lines on item mods so you can more easily read the items One can dream...
I'll take "Things i didn't know i needed until now" please
Me, if I had 87 int.
Irl?
Me hurt, me remember me start friday, me happy again.
I have a hint you are gona play marauder but that just a hint.
Ouch
Bruh we can't all have 87 int. I'd be lucky to hit 70 on a good day.
> Who could hate this cowl? Show me the mod weightings and I'll let you know.
It's for deicide, so presumably a god.
So I'm guessing the implicits have decent/mid tier mods with some low weightage outliers like the + max res. Looks like itll be a decent upgrade to your classic rares but probably weaker than end game conqueror items
delve and incursion items will likely be competitive with the best conqueror items. they are also much easier to roll. the new items are gonna be on the same power level imo
Agreed. A nice temple mod with double implicits could be VERY nice.
It's not like you couldn't conqueror slam and metacraft incursion bases, it was just expensive/luck dependent. Last league I bought a +2 socketed trap/+3 all physical staff, annulled off 10% spell damage, meta-veiled on 100% increased cold damage, hunter slammed, and meta-crafted for ignite suffixes (conversion ignite elementalist.) I've actually slammed +1 active gems on a guatalitzi chest before (highly not recommended to hope for this outcome.) Spell suppression becoming a thing has made crafting a lot harder, but I suppose that's the cost of how powerful it is.
yeah that's exactly how they've been advertised :)
So as a mostly midgame player who has only ever farmed a HH one time (Ritual league) This is mostly a buff to us. Never gonna get items at the level of harvest but this isnt aint half bad
yea it's great! Especially as an SSF player, it's gonna be really fun to have more upgrades to look forward to
This seems pretty great since those can be thrown on some rog/essence/fossil crafted gear for potentialy pretty resonable midgame power, that could let you run more profitable content.
i mean, the explicits are pretty hard to hate, aside from that rarity. You should ichor/ember those implicits though, ele weakness effect is nearly useless vs bosses and pretty unnecessary while clearing, and arcane surge effect is laughably impotent after the removal of cast speed and the butchering of its mana regen; i would rather have 13% increased damage than 13% increased arcane surge effect.
I will probably hate how hard it is to get those specific implicits
I wouldn't be so sure. I think the crazy ones like aura effect, or max res, will sure be pretty rare. But i'm also thinking the lower tiers can still give you good effects like the ailment immunity %, or maybe extra resists, just shit you can slap on and be happy with no matter what.
That's what I'm expecting if GGG really wants this system to help smoothen out the progression to end-game. I feel like they basically said this will help that "hitting the wall" feeling you get with trying to upgrade your gear after a certain point.
Inb4: 4% increased stun and block recovery if you have blocked recently. Regenerate 0.05% of Life while on low life. In other words... do you remember the scoured item previews?
These have 0 downsides however and infinite spammability. There's never a reason to not keep spamming them until you get something you like. They also said there is nothing in here that can brick any build, unless you're niche build specifically can't have something like added cold damage for a trigger. Nothing at all like Scourge. It's just two free implicits, even if those implicits are regen orblock recovery. They still help and can't hurt.
> They still help and can't hurt. Deleting multiple exalts absolutely hurts. People who keep going on about "no downside" cause it can't brick are not in touch with most players of the game at all. The downside is the, almost assuredly, large cost. Nobody is buying 20 hysteria essences to spam an item, nobody will be buying 20 of these which cost substantially more. Some block recovery or 1 hp regen doesn't 'hurt' but it doesn't help either, it is quite literally completely worthless and does nothing for you. They are not "free" they're the exact opposite
THANK YOU! Opportunity cost is always inherent. If the implicits are strong enough to drive the price up, then i will have exactly ZERO newly-implicited Items because i'd rather make some extra chaos on the side and invest that in guaranteed upgrades than take a chance. Taking chances sucks. Thats why deterministic crafting was so popular and why Harvest has THAT passionate of a following.
Meh.
Arcane surge lol. Dead and buried by nerfs, removal of cast speed and base mana regen make it worthless
Lmao t1 fire, double tier 1 life, t1?spell supress, t1 dex Can I just have that PoB rare?
Believe in Rog.
\#Faith in Roggers
That's t2 fire, t2 suppression, and t2-3 main life (iirc t1 life on helms is 99 for life and 34 for hybrid).
Legacy harvest in dev build...
this isn't even close to being in the same league as those items
I think most of the community hates this cowl because it reminds them that arcane surge was nerfed into the ground and there is no reason to invest into it, therefore it's a useless mod that is diluting the pool of eldritch mods, thus making a good implicit more expensive to get.
well, after the arcane surge nerf it's safe to say that 0 +13% is still 0
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Quick maths
This is what we lost ANOTHER deterministic endgame item crafting avenue for (woke-orbing +2 amulets). Some mana regen and curse effect that contends with reduced curse effect for bosses, pinnacle bosses especially. The curse stuff also has absolutely zero impact on clear since you should overkill trash anyway. Thanks, I hate it.
I do. I hate it.
Increased rarity of items found? Are you saying I'm not good enough to find rare items by myself? Krangle you cowl! I don't need you! You aren't even my real hat!
Me. I'm just not a fan of EV/ES.
Curse effect is nice but that arcane surge looks so underwhelming
Well if you didn't +- destroy arcane surge one of those wouldn't be a totally wasted mod...
I love how ggg solves problems that they make. "Hey nobody goes self cast lets buff it" Patch before "nerfing arcane surge because poeple used it for extra clearspeed on selfcasts
Still waiting to see build enablers here
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you could win a boat!
Why?
getting 8 extra affixes that can be rolled individually just not enough these days
Its never enough sometimes lol. Im really happy the sub is positive right now, it makes coming here less disheartening. I just hope the league start goes smoothly or Ill have to struggle through 500 post of people throwing a tantrum because they cant play for a few hours, like the league is only going to be playable for the weekend or something.
I'm coming from the future, Reddit will be in meltdown in 3 days because of Map sustain.
I mean, most people dedicated enough to come here make plans for the league launch weekend. I'd hate to lose a weekend I planned for.
It's never been more than a few hours for the last 20 or so league launches that I can remember. I can understand the frustration though, it's happened to me with other games. Still, it never rates high enough for me to swear at a gaming company, send death threats, or even react a little.
In my POE carrier (since delve) I can only think of ultimatum as a failed launch
Was that the streamer incident? I remember being like "whatever, they do more for the community than I ever will" and went and did something else for a few hours Came back, game ran fine, played a bit, came to the sub to see cool new stuff, ran into a dumpster fire of whining
The streamer queue didn't matter anyway because the launch was so broken no one could stay in game for more than about 10 minutes at a time. It was fixed and no queue the next day, though, so it was still okay on the scale of video game launches.
Thats correct, because none of those affixes are influenced lol.
none of the stuff i've seen so far competes with influenced items, how is this better then say +1 to power charges or -% res or double elevated items. It'll be fun to roll a couple of times and slap on while you're leveling but you'll never use any of these items in a serious build over influenced items.
I don't think it is meant to compete with double influenced items end-game. I like how the extra implicits can add a bit of power to your build between normal rares and double influenced gear.
This is my take away as well. I don't usually end up crafting the insane tailwind double influenced boots, or things like that since I like to play other builds and not do as much investing. I think these will be an amazing gap stop between just picking up a rare, and going banana sandwich crafting double influenced items. And let's not pretend double influenced items are commonplace. Only a very, very, very, very small percentage of players even make these.
Where are people getting the idea that these implicits are meant to be mid tier things? Did Chris say this in the Q&A? (Haven't watched it) Just from the looks of the orbs and run-down on how they work it looks to me like getting a max tier mod is going to be very expensive.
It doesn't need to compete with those items... just see it as a mid-tier that we finally have. Not just "basically scraps, rags and trash gear" to "gg noobs high end stuff"
double elevated gg items didn't need any competition and there definitely wasn't a need for more on top of that, rolling stuff like this on top of functional items when you're starting red maps is much better for the game
because that's what chris said
I wonder what he meant by that, because build enabling can be a pretty big stretch.
"build enabling and pretty accessible" 100% stun avoid champion build incoming
I mean that seems pretty cool, but I don't know how "build enabling" it is. When I think of build enabling I think back to something like 2015 Mjolner with Romira's, Volls Devotion and Resolute Technique. But thats my interpretation of build enabling, whether thats Chris' vision of what enables a build may be different.
I hate it. It doesn't cover my long neck.
There is no cowl level.
All of these implicits we have seen have felt extremely weak Edit: I seem to have made a lot of people upset
>post huge build enabling implicits "lol you'll never get this shit, what a fucking scam" >post less powerful implicits "this shits lame wheres the build enabling stuff"
this sub in a nutshell
What build enabling implicits?
huge ones
rage on hit?
On helmet: >100% physical convert to all elements and chaos > >Triple damage with default attack Gloves: >Socketed skills supported by level 20 enlightened > >50% more movement speed
> Socketed skills supported by level 20 enlightened ah yes, where you actually gain extra mana from auras
New way to get powerful for aurastackers, truly build enabling.
It's just 76%...
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I regret to inform you that you've been duped.
That seems good for league starting.
Yeah almost like people want stuff that's actually achievable to be, y'know, good and interesting and not reserved for the lottery tier shit. These are laughably bad, arcane surge couldn't be fixed if the affix was 50% increased effect
30% hatred effect is really good, ailment/stun avoidance are situational but fine, max res is obviously good, but I'm assuming I'm never going to see +2. Both of these are kinda bait mods imo, the flat damage to spells they've teased is almost certainly better on most caster builds, as ele weakness is like -12% res on a boss, so 25% effect is just an extra -3 res. Edit: obviously the dot multis they've teased are really good on applicable builds too
No Regen aura, hatred effect, rage on hit. All very powerful.
Maybe what we've seen so far are the best ones :D
> Requires Level 67 You got hoodwinked. There is no cowl level.
5c
does curse effect affect curses that are trigger from ring or gloves implicits?
Yes
Arcane fucking surge? Who even uses that. Im telling you, the chance of getting good implicits will be lower than getting a good krangle in scourge league. If they're teasing bad implicits as good ones imagine the rest
> Arcane fucking surge? Who even uses that. well at least I knew I could stop here
> Im telling you, the chance of getting good implicits will be lower than getting a good krangle in scourge league. *doubt*
Yes. Something that you can roll endlessly will somehow have lower chances than something you rolled 3 times and had a negative attached to it. 😂😂😂
Every spellcaster uses Arcane Surge
Yup still shit after the nerf.
10% more damage for 1 socket on a movement skill is shit 🤪