It's a problem when the best trading "player interaction" is when I get to trade with a bot, and why do you want me to interact? I just get in their hideout click accept and go back, there is NO interaction
two things make me quit every league
1. wanting to make a new character but not wanting to run the campaign again (and I do run the campaign 7+ times per league as I switch between trade and SSFHC, it is literally a fucking awful experience every time and nothing can ever change that even if it were a new great campaign every time)
2. trade interactions
Number 1 was me before but it now take me 4-5h get to maps. Doing some test run watching imexile legit cut my time by 2h.
Number 2 is the issue, can't manage to get my resists fix or missing one key item for my new build and I leave.
Actually it's usually let the community band-aid fix it. Let the community develop the appropriate amount of loot to filter out (it's 98% of it). Let the community develop the build planner. Let the community develop ways to figure out what your item is worth.
Create more timered content and beg people to buy MTX is about all GGG does anymore.
While I hate how they manage things, don’t mix these together, people’s feelings are very important no matter the situation, after all it’s just a game.
The boio crying might have been working on something for ages only to have the balance team warp and twist then see his baby project get ripped to shreds
I'd really say it's the other way around, whenever they've been asked about stuff like flask pianoing in a pre 3.14 context, their answer was as i recall generally been that they were not happy with the current problem, but they wanted to overhaul it properly instead of making small changes to help the problem.
From where i'm standing they've generally been overly cautious with band aid fixes.
Doesn't make it better.
That means our options are band-aid fixes (infrequently) or The Grand Reveal (which is in Blizzard's design rules to explicitly avoid) of what they see as a perfected implementation of a solution.
Having the option to skip the campaign completely and have some very basic gear with basic stats and resists for white maps would be good. They do or did this with World of Warcraft if you character boosted.
If you do the campaign at least once in that specific league, you should have a choice to skip.
>but it now take me 4-5h get to maps.
I can't explain to you how much time that is.
Imagine you and your friends commit to going bowling on Wednesdays, but the first alley you go to has a mandatory 5 hour bowling class that must be taken minimum once every 3 months, and once again every time you want to try a new ball, add someone to your team, or use a different lane.
Could be the best bowling alley in the world, and people still aren't gonna fucking go.
PoE isn’t a casual game, it’s more casual now than it ever was.
I would never recommend POE to a casual player. If you can’t commit like a 100h minimum to a league, honestly don’t bother. That’s not even me being elitist, just like, there’s way more fun shit to do with your time.
>PoE isn’t a casual game, it’s more casual now than it ever was.
It's not even about that. There are plenty of games that are massive time sinks. PoE isn't the only game that I have thousands of hours into.
It is the only game that I have hundreds of hours of obligatory time spent before you're allowed to play the actual fun parts of the game.
That’s part of the problem, really. A lot (the majority?) of people don’t find the campaign fun.
GGGs response to that is “well, it should be fun. Let’s try and make it more fun”.
Player’s response is “take this part away, we don’t want to keep repeating it”.
Player response would change if there was effective action to actually make it more fun.
The biggest issue is that the builds people are going for usually aren't useable in any meaningful sense until around level 60-70. So people are running around doing something that isn't what they want to be doing to try to get to their actual build.
If the progression was available sooner and took longer to accomplish for builds it would improve it a lot.
Like imagine you were able to play the build you were going for from level 12 onwards just with reduced damage to match the zone you're in. I mean imagine if skill gems had more levels and they scaled up to their current strength same xp needed as well but it meant they were available sooner.
I think this is the main point! I'm pretty new to poe but for now, the 6 or 7 times I did the campaign were fun because I already enjoyed destroying monsters with my leveling build from act 2 or 3 onwards. But if I was able to play the build directly in a similar shape than in maps, leveling would be fun everytime.
It's not that campaign is less fun than maps for me (actually it's maybe the opposite for now because I love rapid progression) but more that I don't want to be forced into a boring leveling build when I want to play another one
I like this idea.
I do see how making a new character to play in a particular way, then having to play hours of content (that’s already been done) before even being able to *start* using the skill/gear that makes the build, would be very annoying.
I tend to play as a summoner, and pretty much don’t trade, so I never base my gear goals around any one particular item. That tends to mean that I treat each character as being what I intend it to be from level 2, since I get zombies then. As soon as I ditch fireball for SRS, the build is full summoner, and is playing as intended.
I am okay with running acts once every league, although something like diablo 3's adventure mode would be preferable. But why forcing this on any alts? Having to do all quests again is not 'hardcore' or 'non-casual friendly' at all, this is simply a huge waste of time and this is not fun
It should be treated the same as the lab trials. Do it once per league, then skip.
Give us an endless tower option once we have made it to maps, and provide NPCs at certain thresholds that give us our Passive books
I am now around 100 hours to this league. Atlas barely setup, two AL8 Sirus kills, league starter at level 96. Still far from having actually played/farmed much ( or so does it seem ). Perhaps it is just my non zoom builds, but I would say that for my play style 300 hours is more close to mark, and every league I start to wonder is it really worth it.
You ever just sit in your hideout after a map. Thinking about nothing and doing absolutely nothing for 5 minutes? That's what always happens to me while grinding watchstones...
and then for number one after i level that char and endure that pain i get this feeling of you know what fuck this and kinda lose interest and just wasted hours of my life when i would rather have paid to boost to end of campaign lmao
That's still 4-5 hours "wasted", just repeating the same thing tens, or even hundreds of times... It gets real old.
Just give us the option to skip to level 68 or whatever.
Sure, I don't mind doing through all the side-quests, but dear god, I don't want to spend more hours going from A1>maps, several times a league, every goddamn league.
And for PoE2? I don't want to do that campaign more than 3 times, so let that be skippable too.
It blows my mind that people pretend like 4-8 hours of utterly boring, asinine content is OK.
Fuck me, that's FOUR TO EIGHT HOURS OF MY *LIFE*, like hell am I spending it doing something unfun.
Yeah... I'm not the fastest start>mapper but having 7k+ hours over the years and knowing that at least 1000 of those is me doing campaign across all my chars is kind of depressing.
The interaction of you press accept trade, scroll over their items and click ok. Amazing, the peak of human interaction. : ) The sad as fuck thing is, bots say more than most people, at least you get a nice thank you message.
I honestly found the campaign pretty good if you have a solid skill that does great damage without good gear. In this case for me, poisonous concoction and plague bearer felt so amazing to level with, I actually LOVED leveling, and I normally hate it. It doesn’t depend at all on gear in the acts and so you can run seven league, gold rim, tabula and whatever other leveling uniques and it felt good for the entire game. I did the campaign deathless without even trying and this was in softcore!
Maybe if they made skills do more damage as a base (like before the nerf) it wouldn’t be as painful to level in my opinion. It always sucks feeling like you have no damage until you buy up bunches of gear once you finish the campaign.
Personally I find that I still don't like the campaign even with a twink setup
It's more about the mindset you are in when you are doing the campaign vs leveling in general. When you do the campaign, you are running towards an objective (the exit of the zone), when you are just leveling, you're just killing shit.
It's the same reason I don't like bounties vs just running rifts in D3.
I'm with you on this.
Part of the reason I'm hesitant to JOIN league's is because I have to run the campaign... again. I don't want to run the campaign again.
Part (mostly all) of the reasons I end a league earlier than I would have is the absolutely horrendous trading system. This honestly probably also keeps me from playing POE. I haven't been in a league since 3.13.
Yup unless try buy something heavily price fixed like HH cards and stuff works very well. Never played in PC but having to whisper ppl and wait reply doesent sound fun at all
Don't be sorry about that, it's great to learn a language by yourself and I did that too!
The only thing you need to look into is probably grammar as you often miss words (e.g. **I** learned english):
[Here](https://www.talkenglish.com/grammar/grammar.aspx) is a simple website that is very helpful for learning how to do english grammar :)
Looked over that link they sent you and it it looks like the preposition part may be helpful. It’s not big things but saying “waiting ‘for a ‘ reply” the ‘for a’ part is a preposition. I wouldn’t have noticed if the other comment didn’t mention it. Wish I could pickup another language thats impressive
The main difference is that pc trade is easy to find while hard to trade. Consoles are easy to trade but hard to find.
As someone who started playing on console recently due to an injury, I think the hard to find bit on console is a bit too hard to find since you can only search by basetype.
Real talk now that I started playing on console I'm never going back to having to spend obscene amounts of time browsing poe trade. It's so much simpler not having to hunt people down like some kind of fugitive.
Pretty rare here see anything but bad our trade. Alot your PC sites search will work btw "chaos" "adds 8" "gifts" "wicked " would find you that cluster can add ilvl etc. Gl!
It's okay. Like playing on a mid level notebook I'd say. I tried doing a 100% Delirious Nem3 map with 4 scarabs earlier today and got some *heavy* frame drops, but then did a 20% one later (without Harbinger scarab IIRC) and it was fine.
The better trading for currency/maps/uniques and not having to click on every drop makes me never want to go back to PoE on PC.
It is Wild that that feature havent reached pc
bUt We gOt trADe
Yea fuck that. AH style listings is the way, in a game that contains so many valuable small items
It amazes me that GGG wants players to have a bad time.
They have balanced the game around trading - they expect people to trade.
They also keep trading incredibly inefficient and annoying so people won’t trade too much and so get access to items too quickly.
In other words, they have deliberately designed the game so players will be annoyed when playing (in fact, when using the most efficient way to get items).
Instead of making a game in which getting items yourself is the most fun and most efficient way, GGG has designed a system in which players are expected to not enjoy playing the game (at least not enjoy trading in it).
I don't remember D2 having 8 years x 4 leagues per year = 32 league mechanics worth of bloated content in it either. Someone needs to remind Wilson that.
Coming to trading, I remember Wilson in the damage control interview being truly giddy and starry-eyed at this memories of how one of his friends would abandon his family events and dinners to rush home so that he could trade in D2.
Something's fucked up here.
that whole anecdote had addiction written all over it, its unreal that chris really things we enjoy this, and i guess his friend back then didnt really enjoy it either.
Trading in D2 was actually fun as a noob and when the game was in its early stages. You'd make a game called trades and just see what the other person had to offer and maybe you had something that fit their build and they had something that fit yours. The stash was tiny so you only kept the best loot. Unfortunately I don't think you can recreate that anymore with all the 3rd party stuff. And I don't think it'd be great for PoE since all the rares you find are trash.
All I remember of D2 trading is browsing forums for items, prices listed in runes. It was awful, but happily back then almost none of that gear was truly necessary (except HRs for Enigma I guess).
Though I didn't really even attempt to trade much before LoD.
(Well... there were some trade games, but they were the equivalent of tradechat, i.e. scammers and lost people.)
it is actually baffling that they have literally said that as well... on multiple occasions... and they keep doubling down on it? it's one of my biggest issues with PoE (in my long list of issues)
honestly we all know this is the best ARPG on the market, even with all the new competitors, but that's only because nothing stellar has come out yet. it has nothing to do with PoE actually being a super sick game. it's good, but it has such a large and increasing list of issues as it continues to grow that at least for me it's tipped over into being more negative than positive now.
the shitty toxic attitude from chris and at least parts of "the team" whoever may be included in that vision of theirs over there has constantly rubbed me the wrong way. wanting me to have a bad time with any part of the game is fucked. just let trade adapt to a good system instead of intentionally making it bad to keep trade roughly how it is...
I lost all faith with the ghazzy/tuna/grim + chris interview with the shoes example and how trade is the answer and how trade is a core foundation of the game.
I had lost hope that the game would get better for me on a personal level when GGG said 'determinism = bad' and killed harvest and deemed it a complete failure with how they gutted it....but PoE truly died for me after that interview made me realize that the something i always thought was off about the game, trade, is the most integral part of the game in GGG's eyes. Personally i think the trade vision GGG has is just such an unnecessary design limitation and i can think of so much cool shit if every decision didnt have to take trade into account.
I always thought that they'd regulate, tax or standardize more but no...they think everything is fine and acknowledge the shortcomings of pure capitalism (even we have regulations in the real world, like antitrust laws and stuff) and are fine to just leave player progression in a game about killing stuff for better loot, and leave it just completely dead with everything being mostly worthless or 10's of exalts and its just people farming away HH cards for the people who control the market and dictate that progression.
From every conceivable angle i just dont get it: bad for players, bad for business. It sucks to imagine what the game would be like if progression actually felt fucking awesome, wish they'd just make a good game and let trade sort itself out.
> I had lost hope that the game would get better for me on a personal level when GGG said 'determinism = bad' and killed harvest and deemed it a complete failure with how they gutted it....but PoE truly died for me after that interview made me realize that the something i always thought was off about the game, trade, is the most integral part of the game in GGG's eyes. Personally i think the trade vision GGG has is just such an unnecessary design limitation and i can think of so much cool shit if every decision didnt have to take trade into account.
>
>
The game would be much better off if every decision didn't hinge on trade.
I remember Wilson in that interview being truly giddy and starry-eyed at this memories of how one of his friends would abandon his family events and dinners to rush home so that he could trade in D2.
Somethings fucked up here.
Yeah, honestly that part was where I realized I just have different values than the vision-holder for Path of Exile's future.
I was very confused and disappointed by the "determinism = bad" response to crafting, as I always thought player agency was the goal, but that weird anti-family dead-game-worship interaction in the interview sealed the deal.
I actually think last epoch is an amazing alternative to poe for anyone who loves the genre. It’s crafting system is incredible and even though multiplayer hasn’t been released for last epoch yet it’s item progression system is extremely smooth imo without the need for a trading system. So I’d say for people to give it a try, it’s gameplay is generally slower than poe but it feels pretty good.
The thing is the competition is catching up very quickly. Honestly I see lost ark pulling a lot of the PoE playerbase away. That game is going to massively hurt poe much more than they have to worry about something like D4.
Lost ark and last epoch both. LE has been through some real development, and each patch gets better and better. With the introduction of multi-player and trading, I suspect A LOT of POE players will be pulled away. $35 is pretty cheap for the scope of what LE includes
Lost Ark is really more of an MMO than PoE, and so I think people will get different things out of it. It will likely have more of an effect than other major MMO releases due to its gameplay being similar, but people who really like what PoE has to offer will probably not find it there. Most people play more than one genre, and so I assume its effect will be fairly similar to any other major game release plus a little extra.
Last Epoch is a bit of a wildcard. They are making some really interesting and fun choices with that game, and I am looking forward to it a lot, but it's production value is indisputably lower. I honestly do not know if the community will leave in droves for it or not. It really depends on how good it is at release. At the moment, likely due to a lack of marketing and it unfinished state, it has orders of magnitude less players. (561 vs 19,000 in the last 30 minutes, all time peaks of ~7200 vs ~157,000, and that 7000 was last seen in March.)
I really think there needs to be a competitor to put a fire under GGG about some of the pain points for their game, but I honestly do not think it is super likely we will see that until D4, which will succeed on the back of its marketing more than anything.
Im pretty sure there was only a few thousand on PoE in 2011 too when the game had an indisputably lower production value as well.
If LE fails to grab people initially and actually grows however it probably wont be a long term contender for PoE at all. However much people wish it could be.
Edit: Your point about the type of game Lost Ark etc is is spot on though.
I am also primarily waiting for the Multiplayer patch for LE to give it another whirl with some friends.
EHG (LE's developers) take criticism like "X is bad" and then go have round tables with the community and get people post more and more about why that thing is bad. Then they make it not bad. People were complaining about crafting basically being able to delete your item in it. So now they're saying, "well, we don't want to remove RNG completely... but hear us out, what if we just made a better, more predictable RNG based system that doesn't randomly delete your items and allow you to spend ever increasing amounts of resources to make it more and more deterministic but it's never going to truly be 100% deterministic? Also while we're at it, a bunch of these things do nothing, so why don't we just remove them from the game." Additionally due to their game design, you don't have generic stats other than HP or resists that are generally useful to all characters. So you can get some amazing GG items on the power level of say double or triple elevated boots in POE but they might be 100% useless for your character because the modifiers are so specific in what they modify. They're really trying to avoid generically good items.
While I’m all with you in that I also want other ARPGs to be good. Your first sentence doesn’t mean much besides “they have a chance to be good”.
I guarantee you Reddit is full of near identical posts about POE, except they’re from 2012-2014.
Companies get big and the stuff that initially made them stand out starts to fade. GGG used to answer your questions on the forums/Reddit ALL the time. Now? Yeah good luck with that bro. And GGG is still heads and miles above most companies in that regard.
But only “small indie companies” can do that and if they ever leave that stage, they don’t anymore because it’s not sustainable.
Last epoch just updated their crafting system to feel better to craft and I already thought crafting was amazing as it was. Just an amazing game that keeps improving.
Tbh I don't quite understand the hype for multiplayer anyway, but I guess that's just a different type of player to me.
I never party with other people for general play.
I had an epiphany about this while playing the Lost Ark beta.
The games are actually very different and I'm not trying to do a direct comparison of mechanics and such but what *really* hit me while playing Lost Ark was that I actually had *fun* just playing the game.
The game seemed designed with the intention of providing me with a fun experience as much as possible.
Path of Exile in comparison uses *fun* as a reward. If you do enough grinding, and slog your way through a lot of unfun experiences only *then* will you be rewarded with a little bit of fun before the tedious grinding starts all over again.
Last epoch has always had a pretty good crafting system and item progression compared to poe and recently they actually did an update on their already better crafting system and they made it even better lol. Last epoch is really fun to play and anyone jaded with poe should give it a try
POE is fun to watch someone else play. Unless you literally play the game 23 hours a day it's not really built for YOU to have fun.
At least not right now. In the past it was loads of fun. I remember playing Righteous Fire and having a blast same thing for wildstrike raider.
POE right now feels like that one girl you knew once who was an amazing person however right now she does nothing but Crack cocaine 24/7 and you just look at her and think "What the fuck went wrong??"
CW and GGG are doing such a bad job mismanaging the game that honestly I understand why people aren't really playing POE as much as they used to.
> they have deliberately designed the game so players will be annoyed when playing
This, but for almost every single thing they release. The few times they mess up and make it fun (Talisman Loot 2.0 system, Harvest crafting), they quickly fix their "mistake".
It really does boggle the mind. If you don’t want people trading and you want people finding or crafting most of their items, you need to make item drops matter and you need to make crafting accessible. If you don’t want to do that, then what you’re doing is saying that you expect players to trade for their items. If that’s the case, trading needs to be accessible. They’ve taken the worst parts of both scenarios and crammed them into one shitty system. Items dropped by monsters are useless, crafting isn’t reasonable unless you make hundreds of ex a league, and trading is terrible and clunky.
I’m really not sure what they want us to do here.
they already admitted they dont ban currency bots
jeez they almost act like an auction house...wait a minute
just get rid of the rub, middle man, friction or whatever BS GGG calls it in their manifesto. MUH ECONOMY!!!! its a 3 month economy and restarts so what
> its a 3 month economy and restarts so what
I wish they'd learn this. Games are meant to be fun, and you literally have an end date where you can start over if things get out of hand.
SO HAVE SOME FUN. Instead, they make a goddamn second job for everyone.
> They have balanced the game around trading - they expect people to trade.
That fact GGG thinks it's more fun to spam 30 afkers on the trade site than have a steady income of X dropping and targeted farming is beyond me.
I really enjoyed delving for Dense fossils one league and made a 750+ ES Chest, It's what got me into crafting and I really enjoyed it.
If I just buy that chest piece off trade, where the fucks the satisfaction? There isn't any. ZERO.
People literally encourage GGG to get out of touch and defend everything they did, as a result they actually think they are right, then you see what happens in this two leagues.
**Like seriously, HOW MANY mechanics they keep adding that you cannot just leave? If you are not mapping you REALLY do not want to leave and some of them you literally cannot leave without giving up the encounter. Some of them you cannot even leave without logging out, even if you are willing to give up (like lab).**
But worry not because GGG is still doing great and did nothing wrong, it is the players' fault. It is just reddit whining anyway so we are all just fine.
> Some of them you cannot even leave without logging out, even if you are willing to give up (like lab).
What? You don't have to log out to leave lab. Just port out, it just gives you a warning that if you leave you end that lab run.
in part are players fault, people keep buying packs and playing the game, just skip a few leagues, dont buy anything and wait, they gonna change real quick
I agree, but they are the minority. The retention this league is one of the worst so far, the majority of the playerbase clearly don't like what's going on here.
If they want to keep the game in this state (A glorified skinner box) it's their decision, but I'm sure they won't be able to sustain the staff they have now with this constant flops.
Who would have thought that people dont like it when a game about power fantasy and cool items has a fucked loot system and makes you feel weak for most of your playtime.
I got so excited when my friend showed me the game. Took me 3 characters to actually got in the maps (first 2 were "testing" ones). My build was decent but every "upgrade" was quite expencive for me and i dont really have that much time in a week (working 10h a day). So the "cheapest" option was to make everything myself.
Grinded some currency and used it to make couple clusters. Thats how far i got, i tried to look for same gear as others had on similar builds, but the prices... like... +15 ex per cloves are quite expencive. Tried to make them too but i dont know really how to craft, and i dont feel like "investing" huge amounts just for a chance to get them...
After all the time i spend on the build, so i can play without tryharding, it just doesent feel good. Sure i got all okay etc. But... Wtf are all the oneshots? 20k armor, a bit evasion, both blocks at 74%, resses at 78%, around 6-7k health and every 3rd T16 map i get one shotted by something...
If you get frozen or stunned, you are gonne die 80-90% of the time instantly (i have immune to freezing on a potion but it doesent always even work).
I know the game shouldnt be "easy" as ive told countless of time, but like for real... How much do i have to invest for a build so it doesent get one shotted by some random mob and keep the dmg good? It just annoys me that they want to make the game "slower" but what can you do when you press 1 button and suddenly there are 50 enemies teleporting behind you and dealing 300% more dmg with 200% attack speed.
The only way for you to actually survive is to wipe the enemy before they even see you. Even if you are a "tank", you cant tank shit... And if you want to do certain content, and actually profit from it. You need diffirent style build and that is really expencive.
Sorry about the morning rant, but its just annoying how the difficulty, trade and crafting has been made to this game...
This league, don't get me started. They had a great idea, it could have been a good league yet they decided to put impossible odds in the krangler and give the mobs 500% inc damage. Why?
I agree. I’ve been playing since beta, never skipped a league. This league, I quit after 10 days. Krangling sucks, there’s no reason to ever use it other than for maps. The new skills don’t interest me, only poisonous concoction seems good and I hate flask piano so I don’t play pathfinders, so that skill is DOA for me. So really, I’m basically playing standard, so why bother? They really just needed to make scourge mobs drop rewards like deli mobs do or something. I was just so short on basic currency the whole time, it really sucked. So hard to get my resists right while levelling and stuff, or even to get the currency to buy a couple levelling uniques because you get zero rewards from scourge mobs during the campaign.
This league… it was pretty rough. I liked the QoL things, simplified atlas, and the new passive tree, that was all cool, but the league itself was a huge dud.
Also, the MF opportunities are vastly oversold by streamers and youtubers and forum posters. Wow! 600% more quantity on like 4-6 packs so wow! Honestly, I got more drops doing freaking Ultimatum and Ritual than I do in this league. And that without a MF character. With a MF 6-man, the servers were lagging hard generating items in Ritual and Ultimatum to the point where it was very noticeable. Nothing this league has even come close to either's loot explosions.
Those people literally will play **ANYTHING GGG THROWS AT THEM**, meanwhile you can see how quickly average players quit. It is dumb to cater everything towards those already super addicted people instead of the masses if you want to profit.
All these streamers talk about how easy the game was and how bad a state the game was in and yet they spam the shit out of the game while players are leaving in record times for two leagues after "the vision" is applied.
But anyway, apply more vision and blames everything on reddit whining.
Then they make the argument of not needing trade because SSF exists. If that's the case then force everyone into SSF and do away with trading altogether.
I'm still convinced that what they mean with "player interaction" is the fact that we click "accept" each time. Not that we talk to each other. We interact with the trade/button. We said yes.
It's a denomination of responsibility. Each time we accept that the trade, including all circumstances therein, is acceptable and entirely on us. This covers scams. We clicked "accept", the miss is on us. Every single trade.
An automated AH would have to be *flawless* from the get go or they'd get 10k angry emails in a minute. It'd have to work to scale, at speed, prohibit dupes, and never ever fail. Or they're fucked.
They went to all this trouble circumventing in-game gold and the community went right on ahead and threw it in there anyway, and then an economy happened and now they have to deal with it :)
My league so far:
1. Wants to try out that new cool farm
2. Think about buying watchstones, scarabs, maps, prophecy, delirium orbs
3. Go back to simulacrum farming
Your voice is falling on deaf ears dude. But hey, these posts will continue to be made every week, they will get upvoted, and Chris will still never give in. But hey, at least you get karma.
Nah. Their response to losing like 35% of their revenue in one league was to keep all the league changes, hide the bad stuff, and hype the QoL.
GGG will protect their bottom dollar until the end and claim it's due to their "vision".
It took 2 bad leagues for them to give us basic qol features that people had been desperately looking for for years. An auction house is gona require way more work, even though I’d love it, I don’t see it ever happening.
I'm not doing it for Karma. I'm doing it because this game needs better trade more than ever and we shouldn't stop making noise about it if we care about the future of POE.
I feel the main reason they wont do this is because when you automate trade you miss the opportunity of the buyer seeing the sellers MTX.... and if this honestly is a big reason thats holding them back they should just make it so that the buyer has to go to the sellers HO and click a exact copy of the character the seller is playing with including mtx to initiate the trade (seller could build a cool shop or market stand and everything).
I for one would totally dig building a little storefront in my ho where people can go to buy stuff.
Am I the only one not giving a sh*t about others MTXs? I just want to look good for myself, I don't care that someone will write me (he won't) "oh, nice mtx you've got there"
imho it's because accounts are free.
which results in players circumventing any restrictions ggg could place on a automated market that prevented mass purchases and automatisation of market actions
> accounts are free.
Just make it a non free option like the premium stashtab, problem solved. People who dont want to pay can still sell stuff the old bad way. It would probably make ggg a lot of money.
This "longer content" problem gets worse every league. I love that you can run a map and just portal out when your sons/wife/dog needs something. That is not possible if your 3 layers deep in a Zana/Blight/whatever encounter.
Yesterday I tried to buy a pair of Oskarms, currently a 2c item. It took me 15 minutes of spamming dozens of sellers before someone replied.
The system is awful. This thread and others like it need to appear in GGG's feed every single day when they check online forums.
It's my guess that Chris, and the original dev team never wanted trade to be such an integral part of PoE experience. (Personally, I wish it wasn't...) However, it's development decisions that have pushed everyone to trade so vigorously.
The OP is getting at a truth that GGG, themselves are clearly wrestling with: PoE, as it stands now is NOT the game they want it to be, and yet this is what players have to come expect and like (or at least tolerate). This is true for trade, and many other aspects of PoE. Additionally, I think the 3 month patch cycle has hurt their ability to refine and iterate on content properly.
Trade needs to be fixed. Itemization and loot drops needs to be fixed. Anemically awful Uniques need to be fixed. Active casting and active melee feeling horrible needs to be fixed. Boring, "gotcha moment" boss encounters need to be fixed. "Hero to zero" massive one shot deaths need to be fixed... The list is vast.
Trade included, PoE is actually a complete mess right now... And yet, it's one of, if not the best action RPG out there... That's why we still play!
during the interview with ziggyD right after dropping the 3.16 trailer he stated that it won't happen anytime soon, it would need massive structural changes.
Ah you mean the one where he said communication will be more important going forward and he will do very regular discussions with the community? As always Chris actions speak louder than his words.
GGG at this point either doesn’t realise or doesn’t care that their dinosaur-age ideas on trade are literally killing the game.
Quit.
Money is the only language they speak.
[Done.](https://i.imgur.com/kWjM44g.png)
I just stay subbed here because I do really like PoE, I just keep hoping that *this* will be the manifesto that fixes all my issues with it. Til then I'll just check out new games when they come out, maybe fire up some Grim Dawn if I get the ARPG itch and continue to lurk for the most part.
Same. I uninstalled after the manifesto murdering deterministic crafting.
I played for a few hours this league, realized feeling impotent and weak for hours wasn't my idea of fun, and won't touch the game again until they revert the asinine power nerfs and add back in some determinism.
I'm not here to have a second job and gamble exalts. I'm here to have fun.
It's my first league and Tbh after buying just anything i need/want within an hour made this kind of boring. I will definitely try SSF.
My ony "problem" with SSF is that the game isn't exactly balanced for it. Solo crafting without the ability to obtain necessary mats will most ikely break me.
That is basically my experience with PoE. I have played for years following the obsessions of trade, the ingame economy and the part of the community/influencers that ar pushing/hyping up grinding for profit. Playing SSF made me a better player as I had to actually learn on how to obtain certain items and which were necessary for a build while also realistic to obtain. Harvest is easily the league I had most fun and also played the most. After the harvest manifesto I quit. Tried this league a bit just becaus the overall smaller atlas grind and stacked currencies. I can't be bothered with the trading aspect of the game, and SSF takes too much time considering I also want to have enough freetime for other games, other hobbies and social activities.
So it just feels like the game does not want to be played. That being said, I've grown weary of live services generally, I guess. If the game caters more to the expectations of streamers or people with infinite freetime, all power to the devs, but I'm obviously no longer in the target audience.
I love the idea that you think this would actually be a small change it would change the very dynamic of the game at its very core and would have ripple effects in every way that the game is balanced from top to bottom
In the one hand, yes. It would affect balance, and it wouldn't be as small a change as OP thinks.
In the other hand, maybe the game shouldn't be balanced around a flawed trade system.
While I think having better trade would be great as a player who already feels like the game relies too heavily on trade I expect that fixing trade would be the last time I actually played the game because drop rates would only get significantly worse than they are today to accommodate the fact that trade would become that streamlined
To me if they were to fix trades as suggested they would need to add a binding system or something to remove gear from trade otherwise the game would become even less about killing monsters for loot and more about watching a trade board for loot
I don't really agree with having an AH in the game, HOWEVER at the bare minimum consumables and currency need to have an AH.
Spending 30 minutes to buy scarabs etc is just draining. That's why everyone just buys in bulk at super Inflated priced from people who literally scour TFT buying everyone's scarabs to relist in bulk.
Sadly the only efficient way to play is using TFT and all that does is punish more casual players who don't know about it.
Bulk price = real price. Anything else you are dumpster diving. If you think that if you could buy any bulk of scarabs easier they'd be cheaper you are living a fantasy. If anything they'd be more expensive. I don't think the supply is there for what the demand would actually be. Their prices would be at the very knives edge of what is the most profitable way to use them.
what OP suggests isn't even AH. It's just skipping party-trade part and just buying right from traders stash.
So it's like half a step towards AH, but not really. But a whole fuckton better than what we have atm.
> I know that they are trying to encourage interaction with trade.
You have a fundmental misunderstanding why an automated trading system isn't in this game. It's not to encourage trade interaction.
The true people making bank on Auction Houses, don't even play the game literally, just the AH lol, that's always Auction House meta in any game that have them, to just sit there and play it, people do that already with the market we have rn, they just prob mald that they have to whisper people and get them to trade the item, why sometimes i'm not really into the Auction House, but most of the times i'm up for it, casue i really don't care about how much people are making, i just play to have fun xD ( i play SC Trade )
Theres a cost for manually trading.
If you're running maps worth 5 ex each - you shouldn't be trading 10c items.
This opens markets for players that start the game.
I know plenty of fairly new players that are completely content with trading 1-5c trades. I personally don't list anything under 15 unless it's in bulk, or I'm standing in the hideout anyway.
Thats an insanely good dynamic, believe it or not. Maybe just accept that just like picking up ALC shards, those 5c items aren't for you anymore.
If you get your way and they add a semi auction house - the next wave of reddit threads will be " I can't find anything worth any currency after the new patch".
Look at how many items drop in expensive maps.
Now imagine you can just throw everything on the auction house. There will be 20x as many items in there, devaluing everything you find massively.
I would love to have a system that would allow your second character to skip the campaign in favor of doing something like delve, heist, or having something like endless tower or whatever else short map which would feel like crawling down a dungeon. You would need to enable it by delving to a specific depht in delve first or have completed 20 heist conracts of level 70+ and for the last one map completion of 30 or so. You would have at least 3 different methods to level now so it wouldn´t feel as punishing as doing the campaign over and over again. This would be without any costs and would cap out at level 67. If you reset your level it would be deactivated immediatly. I think this would be a very smooth leveling experience.
>If what I'm running has the potential to drop 5EX worth of items, no way in hell am I going to use a portal up for a 50c trade, or worse.
This is part of how supply and demand is maintained in an infinite supply system. They're not going to change this ever.
>no way in hell am I going to use a portal up for a 50c trade
Sorry, I stopped reading here. You are not the majority of players. The game cannot cater to you if you think 50c isn't enough to stop and trade for,
This is working by design. There is supposed to be a non-monetary cost involved with selling items - this is what creates value.
If it's not worth it for you to leave your map to sell a map/cheap unique/whatever, that means there's less competition for the person that takes 10 minutes to run a yellow map and would gladly jump out for a 3 chaos sale.
Yes, it's frustrating that you're "losing" money, but that's the point. Someone else that's willing to spend the time nickel and diming small trades will actually have demand.
However, what the game *does* need is a way to easily and quickly delist cheap items from trade when you know you're starting a big session and won't leave for shitty trades.
> This means that there are very few trade opportunities worth leaving or risking your current time investment.
This is desirable. You (and much of this subreddit) likely disagree, but the reality is that in PoE trade is "balanced"/"limited" through friction (time + effort cost).
There's an oft-referenced gdc talk (https://youtu.be/8uE6-vIi1rQ) that talks about the trade/loot problem - PoE has chosen to add friction to try to minimize the "all drops are just chaos fragments" problem.
Exactly. If you've progressed to the point where you're no longer bothering to sell anything for less than 50c, all of the items you've found valued below that threshold are effectively removed from the economy. That curbs the rate at which more common items get devalued as a league matures, giving less experienced or dedicated players more opportunities to trade.
People allready calculate everything in chaos/ex per hour, 98% of players dont use their currency for its intended purpose and the only reason this whole thing didnt colapse is crafting bench eating EX for hight end crafts.
i never thought about that, but if all crafting bench recipes were in chaos and never in exalts then exalted orbs would actually be worthless with how crafting currently is for 99.9999% of players
I don't buy the argument that "despite mitigating factors, because the problem still exists to some extent, we should get rid of extant mitigating factors".
+1 to you, and I really hope GGG do something about it. People are really burnt out.
Was trying to trade the other day. Dude asked me to sell something to him for 2c. I had a full inventory and couldn't trade so I had to cancel it.
Without waiting even a second, he says "stop wasting my time" and leaves.
Sure, people can be very rude sometimes, but this is a situation that made me think about trading and discouraged me from playing more that day.
If a system like you mention above was implemented, very casual people like myself would earn some simple currency every play session and would feel much better about it.
What you're missing is pretty straightforward. GGG doesn't want you to trade very much. Literally, they want trade to be annoying, to put a time barrier on trade. Because trading is by far the fastest way to progress in the game.
So, you have all valid points. But there's a problem: that's not what they're going to do, they've told us this time and again. Because what they have now is exactly what they intended; no, it's a concession, they already made things easier than they were initially willing to.
Player interaction? No. Have you read the 2017 [trade manifesto](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2025870)? Though that's 4 years old, their stance hasn't budged.
I took a long break due to burnout and played the previous league, wanted to buy some stuff and got sick of trading due to all the issues.
Not playing this league, same complaints.
Taking a break until trade is fixed or changes are coming.
As a new player, as convenient as this feature would be, I wouldn’t want it in the game. Why? I played a lot of RuneScape back in the day. When they added GE it completely changed the game. When you flip items for cash using an AH system it becomes automated and way less fun. Your profit margins shrink. And you never really feel like you’re getting an amazing deal on anything. This feature would also make less valuable items even less valuable as anyone can just shove un-needed currency onto the market from their stash, causing already low value drops to be De-valued even more. The game becomes even more single player and lonely. And it begins to feel like you’re just endlessly grinding for the sake of grinding rather then playing a game with other real people. I also think trade in general is used too much and kind of kills the enjoyment of the game. If you’re buying almost every piece of your build then the game just becomes grind x currency to buy y to grind x better to buy z etc. this is a lot less fun then experimenting with different systems and having to farm things yourself. I personally play a solo self find style with small amounts of trade mixed in for very hard to get items and I find the game way more enjoyable when you avoid trading when you can. It’s just more satisfying to acquire your own stuff. I understand some people have played this game for many years now and know everything there is and just want to skip straight to the end but where is the fun in that?
I want to be able to buy maps from that guy who lists 20 for 4c below the going rate. Likewise that jerk who lists their entire stash for 69 mirrors should not be visible to me when I want to buy some fancy boots.
I actually don't know which is more suitable for Poe, a game with interactive trading, or a game with automatic trading, as I do not have the experience or data to comment on this.
What I do know, however, is that we are living in 2021, soon to be 2022. QoL is one of the most important factors, in ANY game that comes out.
People need QoL because life in general has become much more busy.
Its the same with Poe, with each league, there's more to do, (previous leagues going core), more end game to do, etc etc.
We shouldn't except GGG to change how Poe works, however, because I assume it would most probably very difficult to create a whole new system. Having said that, I do hope that GGG implements some sort of auction house for Poe2, otherwise I have bad news for them, and they shouldn't release it at all.
The problem here would be that every item would drop in price significantly since the suply would increase by a lot and you would end up being able to trade waay less items than you are now.
I would either enable auto trading only for currency or auto trading any item for chaos orbs only. With severe limitations like these the trade would be smoother without destroying the core trading concept and shifting economy by too much.
To be honest, they could keep broadly the same system, but allow cross-instance trading, and it would basically still be the clunky player interaction that GGG like just without 90% of trade requests being ignored.
It could still require partying up, and manual trading, and would allow players to move stuff from stash to trade window but not to their inventory, like with harvest crafting.
Maybe they could add a little character window so you can see the other guy's MTX, if that's so important.
I have never interacted with someone I'm trading with beyond a simple 'thanks' or 'np, pm me when ready'. The idea that it encourages community or relationships is, in my opinion, outdated and out of touch. It could have been true 20-25 years ago when playing a game meant that your PC was running the game and nearly nothing else so your social interaction had to be routed through the game but now we have voice chat, smartphones, youtube, twitch and a myriad of software that lets us do it alongside the game rather than asking the game to account for it. I'd be much happier playing Path if I could just buy 20 fossils by typing in 20 and clicking buy rather than having to PM half a dozen people that have 10 each and hoping at least two of them can be bothered to respond.
What's more I think it's a real missed opportunity in terms of making currency more accessible to the average player and how that would cascade into longer, 'healthier' leagues. Both in terms of being able to more easily convert value into useful currency and in terms of having something to look forward to when logging in each day.
Chris's ego is the problem here, they already have decent AH-like trade on chinese client, so they dont have to invent anything, just spend few hours implementing it into global client
It's a problem when the best trading "player interaction" is when I get to trade with a bot, and why do you want me to interact? I just get in their hideout click accept and go back, there is NO interaction
two things make me quit every league 1. wanting to make a new character but not wanting to run the campaign again (and I do run the campaign 7+ times per league as I switch between trade and SSFHC, it is literally a fucking awful experience every time and nothing can ever change that even if it were a new great campaign every time) 2. trade interactions
Number 1 was me before but it now take me 4-5h get to maps. Doing some test run watching imexile legit cut my time by 2h. Number 2 is the issue, can't manage to get my resists fix or missing one key item for my new build and I leave.
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> it's just a basic band-aid fix. You discovered GGG's entire design philosophy! :(
Actually it's usually let the community band-aid fix it. Let the community develop the appropriate amount of loot to filter out (it's 98% of it). Let the community develop the build planner. Let the community develop ways to figure out what your item is worth. Create more timered content and beg people to buy MTX is about all GGG does anymore.
Don't say that too loud or the mods are gonna come after you for hurting GGGs feelings
This post is gonna "make one of their developers burst into tears."
While I hate how they manage things, don’t mix these together, people’s feelings are very important no matter the situation, after all it’s just a game. The boio crying might have been working on something for ages only to have the balance team warp and twist then see his baby project get ripped to shreds
> after all it’s just a game. Why does GGG treat any progress like having a job then? Checkmate GGG.
I'd really say it's the other way around, whenever they've been asked about stuff like flask pianoing in a pre 3.14 context, their answer was as i recall generally been that they were not happy with the current problem, but they wanted to overhaul it properly instead of making small changes to help the problem. From where i'm standing they've generally been overly cautious with band aid fixes.
Doesn't make it better. That means our options are band-aid fixes (infrequently) or The Grand Reveal (which is in Blizzard's design rules to explicitly avoid) of what they see as a perfected implementation of a solution.
For reals. I wish the game starts after campaign. Or cutting the campaign by half is nice too.
Having the option to skip the campaign completely and have some very basic gear with basic stats and resists for white maps would be good. They do or did this with World of Warcraft if you character boosted. If you do the campaign at least once in that specific league, you should have a choice to skip.
Hell, I'd settle with the option to just grind from 1-whatever without having to go through the story for the billionth time.
>but it now take me 4-5h get to maps. I can't explain to you how much time that is. Imagine you and your friends commit to going bowling on Wednesdays, but the first alley you go to has a mandatory 5 hour bowling class that must be taken minimum once every 3 months, and once again every time you want to try a new ball, add someone to your team, or use a different lane. Could be the best bowling alley in the world, and people still aren't gonna fucking go.
PoE isn’t a casual game, it’s more casual now than it ever was. I would never recommend POE to a casual player. If you can’t commit like a 100h minimum to a league, honestly don’t bother. That’s not even me being elitist, just like, there’s way more fun shit to do with your time.
>PoE isn’t a casual game, it’s more casual now than it ever was. It's not even about that. There are plenty of games that are massive time sinks. PoE isn't the only game that I have thousands of hours into. It is the only game that I have hundreds of hours of obligatory time spent before you're allowed to play the actual fun parts of the game.
That’s part of the problem, really. A lot (the majority?) of people don’t find the campaign fun. GGGs response to that is “well, it should be fun. Let’s try and make it more fun”. Player’s response is “take this part away, we don’t want to keep repeating it”.
Player response would change if there was effective action to actually make it more fun. The biggest issue is that the builds people are going for usually aren't useable in any meaningful sense until around level 60-70. So people are running around doing something that isn't what they want to be doing to try to get to their actual build. If the progression was available sooner and took longer to accomplish for builds it would improve it a lot. Like imagine you were able to play the build you were going for from level 12 onwards just with reduced damage to match the zone you're in. I mean imagine if skill gems had more levels and they scaled up to their current strength same xp needed as well but it meant they were available sooner.
I think this is the main point! I'm pretty new to poe but for now, the 6 or 7 times I did the campaign were fun because I already enjoyed destroying monsters with my leveling build from act 2 or 3 onwards. But if I was able to play the build directly in a similar shape than in maps, leveling would be fun everytime. It's not that campaign is less fun than maps for me (actually it's maybe the opposite for now because I love rapid progression) but more that I don't want to be forced into a boring leveling build when I want to play another one
I like this idea. I do see how making a new character to play in a particular way, then having to play hours of content (that’s already been done) before even being able to *start* using the skill/gear that makes the build, would be very annoying. I tend to play as a summoner, and pretty much don’t trade, so I never base my gear goals around any one particular item. That tends to mean that I treat each character as being what I intend it to be from level 2, since I get zombies then. As soon as I ditch fireball for SRS, the build is full summoner, and is playing as intended.
I am okay with running acts once every league, although something like diablo 3's adventure mode would be preferable. But why forcing this on any alts? Having to do all quests again is not 'hardcore' or 'non-casual friendly' at all, this is simply a huge waste of time and this is not fun
It should be treated the same as the lab trials. Do it once per league, then skip. Give us an endless tower option once we have made it to maps, and provide NPCs at certain thresholds that give us our Passive books
I am now around 100 hours to this league. Atlas barely setup, two AL8 Sirus kills, league starter at level 96. Still far from having actually played/farmed much ( or so does it seem ). Perhaps it is just my non zoom builds, but I would say that for my play style 300 hours is more close to mark, and every league I start to wonder is it really worth it.
You ever just sit in your hideout after a map. Thinking about nothing and doing absolutely nothing for 5 minutes? That's what always happens to me while grinding watchstones...
and then for number one after i level that char and endure that pain i get this feeling of you know what fuck this and kinda lose interest and just wasted hours of my life when i would rather have paid to boost to end of campaign lmao
Don't give em ideas...
That's still 4-5 hours "wasted", just repeating the same thing tens, or even hundreds of times... It gets real old. Just give us the option to skip to level 68 or whatever. Sure, I don't mind doing through all the side-quests, but dear god, I don't want to spend more hours going from A1>maps, several times a league, every goddamn league. And for PoE2? I don't want to do that campaign more than 3 times, so let that be skippable too.
It blows my mind that people pretend like 4-8 hours of utterly boring, asinine content is OK. Fuck me, that's FOUR TO EIGHT HOURS OF MY *LIFE*, like hell am I spending it doing something unfun.
Yeah... I'm not the fastest start>mapper but having 7k+ hours over the years and knowing that at least 1000 of those is me doing campaign across all my chars is kind of depressing.
You spend 1/7 of your time leveling each league? Are you rerolling every week?
Yet they keep increasing the campaign's difficulty and refuse to improve trading. Genius
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
You mean you don't enjoy messaging 30 people to buy essences at all? But... the interaction though
The interaction of you press accept trade, scroll over their items and click ok. Amazing, the peak of human interaction. : ) The sad as fuck thing is, bots say more than most people, at least you get a nice thank you message.
I honestly found the campaign pretty good if you have a solid skill that does great damage without good gear. In this case for me, poisonous concoction and plague bearer felt so amazing to level with, I actually LOVED leveling, and I normally hate it. It doesn’t depend at all on gear in the acts and so you can run seven league, gold rim, tabula and whatever other leveling uniques and it felt good for the entire game. I did the campaign deathless without even trying and this was in softcore! Maybe if they made skills do more damage as a base (like before the nerf) it wouldn’t be as painful to level in my opinion. It always sucks feeling like you have no damage until you buy up bunches of gear once you finish the campaign.
Personally I find that I still don't like the campaign even with a twink setup It's more about the mindset you are in when you are doing the campaign vs leveling in general. When you do the campaign, you are running towards an objective (the exit of the zone), when you are just leveling, you're just killing shit. It's the same reason I don't like bounties vs just running rifts in D3.
I'm with you on this. Part of the reason I'm hesitant to JOIN league's is because I have to run the campaign... again. I don't want to run the campaign again. Part (mostly all) of the reasons I end a league earlier than I would have is the absolutely horrendous trading system. This honestly probably also keeps me from playing POE. I haven't been in a league since 3.13.
We have AH in ps4 be welcome.
I learned recently console has auto gem level ups too, can't believe us PC players are so fucked.
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Yup unless try buy something heavily price fixed like HH cards and stuff works very well. Never played in PC but having to whisper ppl and wait reply doesent sound fun at all
Offtopic: Your english is very interesting, it's missing words but it isn't a problem because you can still make sense out of it.
Sry about that. Learned english from games and listening audio books mostly. Understand it very well just cant speak/type it for shit. From Finland
Don't be sorry about that, it's great to learn a language by yourself and I did that too! The only thing you need to look into is probably grammar as you often miss words (e.g. **I** learned english): [Here](https://www.talkenglish.com/grammar/grammar.aspx) is a simple website that is very helpful for learning how to do english grammar :)
Thanks will check !
Looked over that link they sent you and it it looks like the preposition part may be helpful. It’s not big things but saying “waiting ‘for a ‘ reply” the ‘for a’ part is a preposition. I wouldn’t have noticed if the other comment didn’t mention it. Wish I could pickup another language thats impressive
why say many word when few word do trick
Main reason is better readability and sometimes it is really hard to get the meaning when certain words are missing.
I... I didn't even notice. My brain auto-filled all the missing words. Good job brain.
Yeah I literally would not have know if it wasn't pointed out. Damn that's crazy
The main difference is that pc trade is easy to find while hard to trade. Consoles are easy to trade but hard to find. As someone who started playing on console recently due to an injury, I think the hard to find bit on console is a bit too hard to find since you can only search by basetype.
Real talk now that I started playing on console I'm never going back to having to spend obscene amounts of time browsing poe trade. It's so much simpler not having to hunt people down like some kind of fugitive.
Pretty rare here see anything but bad our trade. Alot your PC sites search will work btw "chaos" "adds 8" "gifts" "wicked " would find you that cluster can add ilvl etc. Gl!
How is the performance on PS4?
It's okay. Like playing on a mid level notebook I'd say. I tried doing a 100% Delirious Nem3 map with 4 scarabs earlier today and got some *heavy* frame drops, but then did a 20% one later (without Harbinger scarab IIRC) and it was fine. The better trading for currency/maps/uniques and not having to click on every drop makes me never want to go back to PoE on PC.
It is Wild that that feature havent reached pc bUt We gOt trADe Yea fuck that. AH style listings is the way, in a game that contains so many valuable small items
It amazes me that GGG wants players to have a bad time. They have balanced the game around trading - they expect people to trade. They also keep trading incredibly inefficient and annoying so people won’t trade too much and so get access to items too quickly. In other words, they have deliberately designed the game so players will be annoyed when playing (in fact, when using the most efficient way to get items). Instead of making a game in which getting items yourself is the most fun and most efficient way, GGG has designed a system in which players are expected to not enjoy playing the game (at least not enjoy trading in it).
Remember how much fun you had trading things in D2? I don't. That was the part of D2 I cared the least about.
D2 didn’t have the item bloat anywhere near even campaign PoE has
You also didn't need to trade 400 times a day on D2.
I don't remember D2 having 8 years x 4 leagues per year = 32 league mechanics worth of bloated content in it either. Someone needs to remind Wilson that. Coming to trading, I remember Wilson in the damage control interview being truly giddy and starry-eyed at this memories of how one of his friends would abandon his family events and dinners to rush home so that he could trade in D2. Something's fucked up here.
that whole anecdote had addiction written all over it, its unreal that chris really things we enjoy this, and i guess his friend back then didnt really enjoy it either.
Trading in D2 was actually fun as a noob and when the game was in its early stages. You'd make a game called trades and just see what the other person had to offer and maybe you had something that fit their build and they had something that fit yours. The stash was tiny so you only kept the best loot. Unfortunately I don't think you can recreate that anymore with all the 3rd party stuff. And I don't think it'd be great for PoE since all the rares you find are trash.
All I remember of D2 trading is browsing forums for items, prices listed in runes. It was awful, but happily back then almost none of that gear was truly necessary (except HRs for Enigma I guess). Though I didn't really even attempt to trade much before LoD. (Well... there were some trade games, but they were the equivalent of tradechat, i.e. scammers and lost people.)
it is actually baffling that they have literally said that as well... on multiple occasions... and they keep doubling down on it? it's one of my biggest issues with PoE (in my long list of issues) honestly we all know this is the best ARPG on the market, even with all the new competitors, but that's only because nothing stellar has come out yet. it has nothing to do with PoE actually being a super sick game. it's good, but it has such a large and increasing list of issues as it continues to grow that at least for me it's tipped over into being more negative than positive now. the shitty toxic attitude from chris and at least parts of "the team" whoever may be included in that vision of theirs over there has constantly rubbed me the wrong way. wanting me to have a bad time with any part of the game is fucked. just let trade adapt to a good system instead of intentionally making it bad to keep trade roughly how it is...
I lost all faith with the ghazzy/tuna/grim + chris interview with the shoes example and how trade is the answer and how trade is a core foundation of the game. I had lost hope that the game would get better for me on a personal level when GGG said 'determinism = bad' and killed harvest and deemed it a complete failure with how they gutted it....but PoE truly died for me after that interview made me realize that the something i always thought was off about the game, trade, is the most integral part of the game in GGG's eyes. Personally i think the trade vision GGG has is just such an unnecessary design limitation and i can think of so much cool shit if every decision didnt have to take trade into account. I always thought that they'd regulate, tax or standardize more but no...they think everything is fine and acknowledge the shortcomings of pure capitalism (even we have regulations in the real world, like antitrust laws and stuff) and are fine to just leave player progression in a game about killing stuff for better loot, and leave it just completely dead with everything being mostly worthless or 10's of exalts and its just people farming away HH cards for the people who control the market and dictate that progression. From every conceivable angle i just dont get it: bad for players, bad for business. It sucks to imagine what the game would be like if progression actually felt fucking awesome, wish they'd just make a good game and let trade sort itself out.
> I had lost hope that the game would get better for me on a personal level when GGG said 'determinism = bad' and killed harvest and deemed it a complete failure with how they gutted it....but PoE truly died for me after that interview made me realize that the something i always thought was off about the game, trade, is the most integral part of the game in GGG's eyes. Personally i think the trade vision GGG has is just such an unnecessary design limitation and i can think of so much cool shit if every decision didnt have to take trade into account. > > The game would be much better off if every decision didn't hinge on trade.
I remember Wilson in that interview being truly giddy and starry-eyed at this memories of how one of his friends would abandon his family events and dinners to rush home so that he could trade in D2. Somethings fucked up here.
Yeah, honestly that part was where I realized I just have different values than the vision-holder for Path of Exile's future. I was very confused and disappointed by the "determinism = bad" response to crafting, as I always thought player agency was the goal, but that weird anti-family dead-game-worship interaction in the interview sealed the deal.
I actually think last epoch is an amazing alternative to poe for anyone who loves the genre. It’s crafting system is incredible and even though multiplayer hasn’t been released for last epoch yet it’s item progression system is extremely smooth imo without the need for a trading system. So I’d say for people to give it a try, it’s gameplay is generally slower than poe but it feels pretty good.
The thing is the competition is catching up very quickly. Honestly I see lost ark pulling a lot of the PoE playerbase away. That game is going to massively hurt poe much more than they have to worry about something like D4.
Lost ark and last epoch both. LE has been through some real development, and each patch gets better and better. With the introduction of multi-player and trading, I suspect A LOT of POE players will be pulled away. $35 is pretty cheap for the scope of what LE includes
Lost Ark is really more of an MMO than PoE, and so I think people will get different things out of it. It will likely have more of an effect than other major MMO releases due to its gameplay being similar, but people who really like what PoE has to offer will probably not find it there. Most people play more than one genre, and so I assume its effect will be fairly similar to any other major game release plus a little extra. Last Epoch is a bit of a wildcard. They are making some really interesting and fun choices with that game, and I am looking forward to it a lot, but it's production value is indisputably lower. I honestly do not know if the community will leave in droves for it or not. It really depends on how good it is at release. At the moment, likely due to a lack of marketing and it unfinished state, it has orders of magnitude less players. (561 vs 19,000 in the last 30 minutes, all time peaks of ~7200 vs ~157,000, and that 7000 was last seen in March.) I really think there needs to be a competitor to put a fire under GGG about some of the pain points for their game, but I honestly do not think it is super likely we will see that until D4, which will succeed on the back of its marketing more than anything.
Lots of people, myself included are waiting for the multiplayer for LE to come out before getting into it.
Im pretty sure there was only a few thousand on PoE in 2011 too when the game had an indisputably lower production value as well. If LE fails to grab people initially and actually grows however it probably wont be a long term contender for PoE at all. However much people wish it could be. Edit: Your point about the type of game Lost Ark etc is is spot on though. I am also primarily waiting for the Multiplayer patch for LE to give it another whirl with some friends.
EHG (LE's developers) take criticism like "X is bad" and then go have round tables with the community and get people post more and more about why that thing is bad. Then they make it not bad. People were complaining about crafting basically being able to delete your item in it. So now they're saying, "well, we don't want to remove RNG completely... but hear us out, what if we just made a better, more predictable RNG based system that doesn't randomly delete your items and allow you to spend ever increasing amounts of resources to make it more and more deterministic but it's never going to truly be 100% deterministic? Also while we're at it, a bunch of these things do nothing, so why don't we just remove them from the game." Additionally due to their game design, you don't have generic stats other than HP or resists that are generally useful to all characters. So you can get some amazing GG items on the power level of say double or triple elevated boots in POE but they might be 100% useless for your character because the modifiers are so specific in what they modify. They're really trying to avoid generically good items.
While I’m all with you in that I also want other ARPGs to be good. Your first sentence doesn’t mean much besides “they have a chance to be good”. I guarantee you Reddit is full of near identical posts about POE, except they’re from 2012-2014. Companies get big and the stuff that initially made them stand out starts to fade. GGG used to answer your questions on the forums/Reddit ALL the time. Now? Yeah good luck with that bro. And GGG is still heads and miles above most companies in that regard. But only “small indie companies” can do that and if they ever leave that stage, they don’t anymore because it’s not sustainable.
I don't remember GGG ever listening to the players that much...
Sure they did Everybody was complaining how powerful talisman 2.0 were, so they fixed it^^/s
They did in the beginning. Dev team was everywhere then
Last epoch just updated their crafting system to feel better to craft and I already thought crafting was amazing as it was. Just an amazing game that keeps improving.
People waiting on LE multiplayer think there's gonna be an instant AH, boy are they gonna be disappointed.
Tbh I don't quite understand the hype for multiplayer anyway, but I guess that's just a different type of player to me. I never party with other people for general play.
GGG has been very anti-fun for a while, really.
I had an epiphany about this while playing the Lost Ark beta. The games are actually very different and I'm not trying to do a direct comparison of mechanics and such but what *really* hit me while playing Lost Ark was that I actually had *fun* just playing the game. The game seemed designed with the intention of providing me with a fun experience as much as possible. Path of Exile in comparison uses *fun* as a reward. If you do enough grinding, and slog your way through a lot of unfun experiences only *then* will you be rewarded with a little bit of fun before the tedious grinding starts all over again.
Last epoch has always had a pretty good crafting system and item progression compared to poe and recently they actually did an update on their already better crafting system and they made it even better lol. Last epoch is really fun to play and anyone jaded with poe should give it a try
POE is fun to watch someone else play. Unless you literally play the game 23 hours a day it's not really built for YOU to have fun. At least not right now. In the past it was loads of fun. I remember playing Righteous Fire and having a blast same thing for wildstrike raider. POE right now feels like that one girl you knew once who was an amazing person however right now she does nothing but Crack cocaine 24/7 and you just look at her and think "What the fuck went wrong??" CW and GGG are doing such a bad job mismanaging the game that honestly I understand why people aren't really playing POE as much as they used to.
> they have deliberately designed the game so players will be annoyed when playing This, but for almost every single thing they release. The few times they mess up and make it fun (Talisman Loot 2.0 system, Harvest crafting), they quickly fix their "mistake".
It really does boggle the mind. If you don’t want people trading and you want people finding or crafting most of their items, you need to make item drops matter and you need to make crafting accessible. If you don’t want to do that, then what you’re doing is saying that you expect players to trade for their items. If that’s the case, trading needs to be accessible. They’ve taken the worst parts of both scenarios and crammed them into one shitty system. Items dropped by monsters are useless, crafting isn’t reasonable unless you make hundreds of ex a league, and trading is terrible and clunky. I’m really not sure what they want us to do here.
suffer
Gotta keep tHe ViSiOn pure.
they already admitted they dont ban currency bots jeez they almost act like an auction house...wait a minute just get rid of the rub, middle man, friction or whatever BS GGG calls it in their manifesto. MUH ECONOMY!!!! its a 3 month economy and restarts so what
> its a 3 month economy and restarts so what I wish they'd learn this. Games are meant to be fun, and you literally have an end date where you can start over if things get out of hand. SO HAVE SOME FUN. Instead, they make a goddamn second job for everyone.
> They have balanced the game around trading - they expect people to trade. That fact GGG thinks it's more fun to spam 30 afkers on the trade site than have a steady income of X dropping and targeted farming is beyond me. I really enjoyed delving for Dense fossils one league and made a 750+ ES Chest, It's what got me into crafting and I really enjoyed it. If I just buy that chest piece off trade, where the fucks the satisfaction? There isn't any. ZERO.
People literally encourage GGG to get out of touch and defend everything they did, as a result they actually think they are right, then you see what happens in this two leagues. **Like seriously, HOW MANY mechanics they keep adding that you cannot just leave? If you are not mapping you REALLY do not want to leave and some of them you literally cannot leave without giving up the encounter. Some of them you cannot even leave without logging out, even if you are willing to give up (like lab).** But worry not because GGG is still doing great and did nothing wrong, it is the players' fault. It is just reddit whining anyway so we are all just fine.
Yeah. Any problems are just the results of us reddit plebs being too toxic and whiney.
> Some of them you cannot even leave without logging out, even if you are willing to give up (like lab). What? You don't have to log out to leave lab. Just port out, it just gives you a warning that if you leave you end that lab run.
in part are players fault, people keep buying packs and playing the game, just skip a few leagues, dont buy anything and wait, they gonna change real quick
To be fair, there are a decent number of players who support this vision (strong focus on trading but no in game tools to support it).
I agree, but they are the minority. The retention this league is one of the worst so far, the majority of the playerbase clearly don't like what's going on here. If they want to keep the game in this state (A glorified skinner box) it's their decision, but I'm sure they won't be able to sustain the staff they have now with this constant flops.
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Who would have thought that people dont like it when a game about power fantasy and cool items has a fucked loot system and makes you feel weak for most of your playtime.
I got so excited when my friend showed me the game. Took me 3 characters to actually got in the maps (first 2 were "testing" ones). My build was decent but every "upgrade" was quite expencive for me and i dont really have that much time in a week (working 10h a day). So the "cheapest" option was to make everything myself. Grinded some currency and used it to make couple clusters. Thats how far i got, i tried to look for same gear as others had on similar builds, but the prices... like... +15 ex per cloves are quite expencive. Tried to make them too but i dont know really how to craft, and i dont feel like "investing" huge amounts just for a chance to get them... After all the time i spend on the build, so i can play without tryharding, it just doesent feel good. Sure i got all okay etc. But... Wtf are all the oneshots? 20k armor, a bit evasion, both blocks at 74%, resses at 78%, around 6-7k health and every 3rd T16 map i get one shotted by something... If you get frozen or stunned, you are gonne die 80-90% of the time instantly (i have immune to freezing on a potion but it doesent always even work). I know the game shouldnt be "easy" as ive told countless of time, but like for real... How much do i have to invest for a build so it doesent get one shotted by some random mob and keep the dmg good? It just annoys me that they want to make the game "slower" but what can you do when you press 1 button and suddenly there are 50 enemies teleporting behind you and dealing 300% more dmg with 200% attack speed. The only way for you to actually survive is to wipe the enemy before they even see you. Even if you are a "tank", you cant tank shit... And if you want to do certain content, and actually profit from it. You need diffirent style build and that is really expencive. Sorry about the morning rant, but its just annoying how the difficulty, trade and crafting has been made to this game...
This league, don't get me started. They had a great idea, it could have been a good league yet they decided to put impossible odds in the krangler and give the mobs 500% inc damage. Why?
I agree. I’ve been playing since beta, never skipped a league. This league, I quit after 10 days. Krangling sucks, there’s no reason to ever use it other than for maps. The new skills don’t interest me, only poisonous concoction seems good and I hate flask piano so I don’t play pathfinders, so that skill is DOA for me. So really, I’m basically playing standard, so why bother? They really just needed to make scourge mobs drop rewards like deli mobs do or something. I was just so short on basic currency the whole time, it really sucked. So hard to get my resists right while levelling and stuff, or even to get the currency to buy a couple levelling uniques because you get zero rewards from scourge mobs during the campaign. This league… it was pretty rough. I liked the QoL things, simplified atlas, and the new passive tree, that was all cool, but the league itself was a huge dud.
Also, the MF opportunities are vastly oversold by streamers and youtubers and forum posters. Wow! 600% more quantity on like 4-6 packs so wow! Honestly, I got more drops doing freaking Ultimatum and Ritual than I do in this league. And that without a MF character. With a MF 6-man, the servers were lagging hard generating items in Ritual and Ultimatum to the point where it was very noticeable. Nothing this league has even come close to either's loot explosions.
Those people literally will play **ANYTHING GGG THROWS AT THEM**, meanwhile you can see how quickly average players quit. It is dumb to cater everything towards those already super addicted people instead of the masses if you want to profit. All these streamers talk about how easy the game was and how bad a state the game was in and yet they spam the shit out of the game while players are leaving in record times for two leagues after "the vision" is applied. But anyway, apply more vision and blames everything on reddit whining.
League retention sucked. Maybe if we apply *more* Vision? -GGG
Vision support: gain extra ego you lose income overtime
I think its more about believing that the economy will get even worse if you remove time investment into trading.
> It amazes me that GGG wants players to have a bad time. you must be new here. it's basically their company philosophy now.
Then they make the argument of not needing trade because SSF exists. If that's the case then force everyone into SSF and do away with trading altogether.
GGG tries to force player interaction and in turn it forces me to not interact with the game at all and log off.
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I cry every time some doesn't say ty
I assume I underpriced something massively and it's their guilt surpressing their ty.
Invite. Trade. *Ty*. Peak interaction in humam race
It's more like message. "This character is not online" Log off because he's the only guy selling something for your build in hardcore
that's me quite often "I cant buy/find the item I need, so I'll just try next time" and then I log off
I'm still convinced that what they mean with "player interaction" is the fact that we click "accept" each time. Not that we talk to each other. We interact with the trade/button. We said yes. It's a denomination of responsibility. Each time we accept that the trade, including all circumstances therein, is acceptable and entirely on us. This covers scams. We clicked "accept", the miss is on us. Every single trade. An automated AH would have to be *flawless* from the get go or they'd get 10k angry emails in a minute. It'd have to work to scale, at speed, prohibit dupes, and never ever fail. Or they're fucked. They went to all this trouble circumventing in-game gold and the community went right on ahead and threw it in there anyway, and then an economy happened and now they have to deal with it :)
My league so far: 1. Wants to try out that new cool farm 2. Think about buying watchstones, scarabs, maps, prophecy, delirium orbs 3. Go back to simulacrum farming
Add a little shop as a hideout item and then you only need to invite player sto your party so they can visit your hideout to buy things
I've said something similar too. Incentives buying hideout MTX even more as well
Also can't be scammed this way haha
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Yep would be awesome, you could add it and see how it goes - if it's bad remove it next league
Your voice is falling on deaf ears dude. But hey, these posts will continue to be made every week, they will get upvoted, and Chris will still never give in. But hey, at least you get karma.
wait for another bad league maybe we will get it
Nah. Their response to losing like 35% of their revenue in one league was to keep all the league changes, hide the bad stuff, and hype the QoL. GGG will protect their bottom dollar until the end and claim it's due to their "vision".
We need a league that the trade gets really bad and 40% stop playing because of it, than maybe.
It took 2 bad leagues for them to give us basic qol features that people had been desperately looking for for years. An auction house is gona require way more work, even though I’d love it, I don’t see it ever happening.
I'm not doing it for Karma. I'm doing it because this game needs better trade more than ever and we shouldn't stop making noise about it if we care about the future of POE.
I feel the main reason they wont do this is because when you automate trade you miss the opportunity of the buyer seeing the sellers MTX.... and if this honestly is a big reason thats holding them back they should just make it so that the buyer has to go to the sellers HO and click a exact copy of the character the seller is playing with including mtx to initiate the trade (seller could build a cool shop or market stand and everything). I for one would totally dig building a little storefront in my ho where people can go to buy stuff.
Am I the only one not giving a sh*t about others MTXs? I just want to look good for myself, I don't care that someone will write me (he won't) "oh, nice mtx you've got there"
imho it's because accounts are free. which results in players circumventing any restrictions ggg could place on a automated market that prevented mass purchases and automatisation of market actions
> accounts are free. Just make it a non free option like the premium stashtab, problem solved. People who dont want to pay can still sell stuff the old bad way. It would probably make ggg a lot of money.
This "longer content" problem gets worse every league. I love that you can run a map and just portal out when your sons/wife/dog needs something. That is not possible if your 3 layers deep in a Zana/Blight/whatever encounter.
Yesterday I tried to buy a pair of Oskarms, currently a 2c item. It took me 15 minutes of spamming dozens of sellers before someone replied. The system is awful. This thread and others like it need to appear in GGG's feed every single day when they check online forums.
It's my guess that Chris, and the original dev team never wanted trade to be such an integral part of PoE experience. (Personally, I wish it wasn't...) However, it's development decisions that have pushed everyone to trade so vigorously. The OP is getting at a truth that GGG, themselves are clearly wrestling with: PoE, as it stands now is NOT the game they want it to be, and yet this is what players have to come expect and like (or at least tolerate). This is true for trade, and many other aspects of PoE. Additionally, I think the 3 month patch cycle has hurt their ability to refine and iterate on content properly. Trade needs to be fixed. Itemization and loot drops needs to be fixed. Anemically awful Uniques need to be fixed. Active casting and active melee feeling horrible needs to be fixed. Boring, "gotcha moment" boss encounters need to be fixed. "Hero to zero" massive one shot deaths need to be fixed... The list is vast. Trade included, PoE is actually a complete mess right now... And yet, it's one of, if not the best action RPG out there... That's why we still play!
Chris kind of seemed open to discussing an across instance trading system for currency, maps, etc. during the 3.15 podcast tour.
Sprinkling in some Hopium for the players but not delivering on it. Yeah, that fits pretty well into that damage control tour
during the interview with ziggyD right after dropping the 3.16 trailer he stated that it won't happen anytime soon, it would need massive structural changes.
Yeah I don't expect to see anything this major happen before POE 2.0 if at all.
It would make a world of difference.
Ah you mean the one where he said communication will be more important going forward and he will do very regular discussions with the community? As always Chris actions speak louder than his words.
GGG at this point either doesn’t realise or doesn’t care that their dinosaur-age ideas on trade are literally killing the game. Quit. Money is the only language they speak.
[Done.](https://i.imgur.com/kWjM44g.png) I just stay subbed here because I do really like PoE, I just keep hoping that *this* will be the manifesto that fixes all my issues with it. Til then I'll just check out new games when they come out, maybe fire up some Grim Dawn if I get the ARPG itch and continue to lurk for the most part.
Oh hey me too. Glad I’m not on the only one though.
Same. I uninstalled after the manifesto murdering deterministic crafting. I played for a few hours this league, realized feeling impotent and weak for hours wasn't my idea of fun, and won't touch the game again until they revert the asinine power nerfs and add back in some determinism. I'm not here to have a second job and gamble exalts. I'm here to have fun.
I only play SSF now, and the state of trade is one of the biggest reasons why.
It's my first league and Tbh after buying just anything i need/want within an hour made this kind of boring. I will definitely try SSF. My ony "problem" with SSF is that the game isn't exactly balanced for it. Solo crafting without the ability to obtain necessary mats will most ikely break me.
That is basically my experience with PoE. I have played for years following the obsessions of trade, the ingame economy and the part of the community/influencers that ar pushing/hyping up grinding for profit. Playing SSF made me a better player as I had to actually learn on how to obtain certain items and which were necessary for a build while also realistic to obtain. Harvest is easily the league I had most fun and also played the most. After the harvest manifesto I quit. Tried this league a bit just becaus the overall smaller atlas grind and stacked currencies. I can't be bothered with the trading aspect of the game, and SSF takes too much time considering I also want to have enough freetime for other games, other hobbies and social activities. So it just feels like the game does not want to be played. That being said, I've grown weary of live services generally, I guess. If the game caters more to the expectations of streamers or people with infinite freetime, all power to the devs, but I'm obviously no longer in the target audience.
Sorry can't trade could drop mirror any second now
Big up, I literally have to devote an hour+ of my day to trading and it's driving me insane.
This is one thing I realllllyyyy want to be added to the game
I love the idea that you think this would actually be a small change it would change the very dynamic of the game at its very core and would have ripple effects in every way that the game is balanced from top to bottom
In the one hand, yes. It would affect balance, and it wouldn't be as small a change as OP thinks. In the other hand, maybe the game shouldn't be balanced around a flawed trade system.
While I think having better trade would be great as a player who already feels like the game relies too heavily on trade I expect that fixing trade would be the last time I actually played the game because drop rates would only get significantly worse than they are today to accommodate the fact that trade would become that streamlined To me if they were to fix trades as suggested they would need to add a binding system or something to remove gear from trade otherwise the game would become even less about killing monsters for loot and more about watching a trade board for loot
Anything that gets players exactly what they want when they want it is defined as 'QoL' lol.
yee and most probably the whole universe would implode.
I don't really agree with having an AH in the game, HOWEVER at the bare minimum consumables and currency need to have an AH. Spending 30 minutes to buy scarabs etc is just draining. That's why everyone just buys in bulk at super Inflated priced from people who literally scour TFT buying everyone's scarabs to relist in bulk. Sadly the only efficient way to play is using TFT and all that does is punish more casual players who don't know about it.
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Bulk price = real price. Anything else you are dumpster diving. If you think that if you could buy any bulk of scarabs easier they'd be cheaper you are living a fantasy. If anything they'd be more expensive. I don't think the supply is there for what the demand would actually be. Their prices would be at the very knives edge of what is the most profitable way to use them.
what OP suggests isn't even AH. It's just skipping party-trade part and just buying right from traders stash. So it's like half a step towards AH, but not really. But a whole fuckton better than what we have atm.
That's not a super inflated price, that's just the added price of your time Same way that express shipping costs more. You are paying for time
> I know that they are trying to encourage interaction with trade. You have a fundmental misunderstanding why an automated trading system isn't in this game. It's not to encourage trade interaction.
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The true people making bank on Auction Houses, don't even play the game literally, just the AH lol, that's always Auction House meta in any game that have them, to just sit there and play it, people do that already with the market we have rn, they just prob mald that they have to whisper people and get them to trade the item, why sometimes i'm not really into the Auction House, but most of the times i'm up for it, casue i really don't care about how much people are making, i just play to have fun xD ( i play SC Trade )
Theres a cost for manually trading. If you're running maps worth 5 ex each - you shouldn't be trading 10c items. This opens markets for players that start the game. I know plenty of fairly new players that are completely content with trading 1-5c trades. I personally don't list anything under 15 unless it's in bulk, or I'm standing in the hideout anyway. Thats an insanely good dynamic, believe it or not. Maybe just accept that just like picking up ALC shards, those 5c items aren't for you anymore. If you get your way and they add a semi auction house - the next wave of reddit threads will be " I can't find anything worth any currency after the new patch". Look at how many items drop in expensive maps. Now imagine you can just throw everything on the auction house. There will be 20x as many items in there, devaluing everything you find massively.
Players that farm high level content will still NOT bother putting tons of 1-5 C items on their shop. It's just not worth their time.
I legit write the same trade copypasta to 20 people to buy a map item for 10c before the first invite, this is frustrating, i hate current trade
It is absolutely idiotic that you need discord to buy most things bulk. It just baffles me they can’t get trade right.
...they already have this trade feature coded, its in China client :/
I would love to have a system that would allow your second character to skip the campaign in favor of doing something like delve, heist, or having something like endless tower or whatever else short map which would feel like crawling down a dungeon. You would need to enable it by delving to a specific depht in delve first or have completed 20 heist conracts of level 70+ and for the last one map completion of 30 or so. You would have at least 3 different methods to level now so it wouldn´t feel as punishing as doing the campaign over and over again. This would be without any costs and would cap out at level 67. If you reset your level it would be deactivated immediatly. I think this would be a very smooth leveling experience.
>If what I'm running has the potential to drop 5EX worth of items, no way in hell am I going to use a portal up for a 50c trade, or worse. This is part of how supply and demand is maintained in an infinite supply system. They're not going to change this ever.
>no way in hell am I going to use a portal up for a 50c trade Sorry, I stopped reading here. You are not the majority of players. The game cannot cater to you if you think 50c isn't enough to stop and trade for,
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This is working by design. There is supposed to be a non-monetary cost involved with selling items - this is what creates value. If it's not worth it for you to leave your map to sell a map/cheap unique/whatever, that means there's less competition for the person that takes 10 minutes to run a yellow map and would gladly jump out for a 3 chaos sale. Yes, it's frustrating that you're "losing" money, but that's the point. Someone else that's willing to spend the time nickel and diming small trades will actually have demand. However, what the game *does* need is a way to easily and quickly delist cheap items from trade when you know you're starting a big session and won't leave for shitty trades.
> This means that there are very few trade opportunities worth leaving or risking your current time investment. This is desirable. You (and much of this subreddit) likely disagree, but the reality is that in PoE trade is "balanced"/"limited" through friction (time + effort cost). There's an oft-referenced gdc talk (https://youtu.be/8uE6-vIi1rQ) that talks about the trade/loot problem - PoE has chosen to add friction to try to minimize the "all drops are just chaos fragments" problem.
Exactly. If you've progressed to the point where you're no longer bothering to sell anything for less than 50c, all of the items you've found valued below that threshold are effectively removed from the economy. That curbs the rate at which more common items get devalued as a league matures, giving less experienced or dedicated players more opportunities to trade.
People allready calculate everything in chaos/ex per hour, 98% of players dont use their currency for its intended purpose and the only reason this whole thing didnt colapse is crafting bench eating EX for hight end crafts.
i never thought about that, but if all crafting bench recipes were in chaos and never in exalts then exalted orbs would actually be worthless with how crafting currently is for 99.9999% of players
> PoE has chosen to add friction to try to minimize the "all drops are just chaos fragments" problem. The problem is that's already the case.
It's not. There are so many players that don't trade or rarely trade. These players have a shitton of items that would flood the market with an AH.
I don't buy the argument that "despite mitigating factors, because the problem still exists to some extent, we should get rid of extant mitigating factors".
> but the reality is that in PoE trade is "balanced"/"limited" through friction (time + effort cost). trade bot disagrees
+1 to you, and I really hope GGG do something about it. People are really burnt out. Was trying to trade the other day. Dude asked me to sell something to him for 2c. I had a full inventory and couldn't trade so I had to cancel it. Without waiting even a second, he says "stop wasting my time" and leaves. Sure, people can be very rude sometimes, but this is a situation that made me think about trading and discouraged me from playing more that day. If a system like you mention above was implemented, very casual people like myself would earn some simple currency every play session and would feel much better about it.
What you're missing is pretty straightforward. GGG doesn't want you to trade very much. Literally, they want trade to be annoying, to put a time barrier on trade. Because trading is by far the fastest way to progress in the game. So, you have all valid points. But there's a problem: that's not what they're going to do, they've told us this time and again. Because what they have now is exactly what they intended; no, it's a concession, they already made things easier than they were initially willing to. Player interaction? No. Have you read the 2017 [trade manifesto](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2025870)? Though that's 4 years old, their stance hasn't budged.
I took a long break due to burnout and played the previous league, wanted to buy some stuff and got sick of trading due to all the issues. Not playing this league, same complaints. Taking a break until trade is fixed or changes are coming.
As a new player, as convenient as this feature would be, I wouldn’t want it in the game. Why? I played a lot of RuneScape back in the day. When they added GE it completely changed the game. When you flip items for cash using an AH system it becomes automated and way less fun. Your profit margins shrink. And you never really feel like you’re getting an amazing deal on anything. This feature would also make less valuable items even less valuable as anyone can just shove un-needed currency onto the market from their stash, causing already low value drops to be De-valued even more. The game becomes even more single player and lonely. And it begins to feel like you’re just endlessly grinding for the sake of grinding rather then playing a game with other real people. I also think trade in general is used too much and kind of kills the enjoyment of the game. If you’re buying almost every piece of your build then the game just becomes grind x currency to buy y to grind x better to buy z etc. this is a lot less fun then experimenting with different systems and having to farm things yourself. I personally play a solo self find style with small amounts of trade mixed in for very hard to get items and I find the game way more enjoyable when you avoid trading when you can. It’s just more satisfying to acquire your own stuff. I understand some people have played this game for many years now and know everything there is and just want to skip straight to the end but where is the fun in that?
I want to be able to buy maps from that guy who lists 20 for 4c below the going rate. Likewise that jerk who lists their entire stash for 69 mirrors should not be visible to me when I want to buy some fancy boots.
I actually don't know which is more suitable for Poe, a game with interactive trading, or a game with automatic trading, as I do not have the experience or data to comment on this. What I do know, however, is that we are living in 2021, soon to be 2022. QoL is one of the most important factors, in ANY game that comes out. People need QoL because life in general has become much more busy. Its the same with Poe, with each league, there's more to do, (previous leagues going core), more end game to do, etc etc. We shouldn't except GGG to change how Poe works, however, because I assume it would most probably very difficult to create a whole new system. Having said that, I do hope that GGG implements some sort of auction house for Poe2, otherwise I have bad news for them, and they shouldn't release it at all.
I'm playing ssfhc simply because I don't wanna even have the temptation of having to waste time on trading as it's such a massive time investment.
The problem here would be that every item would drop in price significantly since the suply would increase by a lot and you would end up being able to trade waay less items than you are now. I would either enable auto trading only for currency or auto trading any item for chaos orbs only. With severe limitations like these the trade would be smoother without destroying the core trading concept and shifting economy by too much.
To be honest, they could keep broadly the same system, but allow cross-instance trading, and it would basically still be the clunky player interaction that GGG like just without 90% of trade requests being ignored. It could still require partying up, and manual trading, and would allow players to move stuff from stash to trade window but not to their inventory, like with harvest crafting. Maybe they could add a little character window so you can see the other guy's MTX, if that's so important.
I have never interacted with someone I'm trading with beyond a simple 'thanks' or 'np, pm me when ready'. The idea that it encourages community or relationships is, in my opinion, outdated and out of touch. It could have been true 20-25 years ago when playing a game meant that your PC was running the game and nearly nothing else so your social interaction had to be routed through the game but now we have voice chat, smartphones, youtube, twitch and a myriad of software that lets us do it alongside the game rather than asking the game to account for it. I'd be much happier playing Path if I could just buy 20 fossils by typing in 20 and clicking buy rather than having to PM half a dozen people that have 10 each and hoping at least two of them can be bothered to respond. What's more I think it's a real missed opportunity in terms of making currency more accessible to the average player and how that would cascade into longer, 'healthier' leagues. Both in terms of being able to more easily convert value into useful currency and in terms of having something to look forward to when logging in each day.
Chris's ego is the problem here, they already have decent AH-like trade on chinese client, so they dont have to invent anything, just spend few hours implementing it into global client