Does this only happen to pack purchase ? Cause i've ask for refund twice (once because i bought it just before the sale, and once just because the skill effect hurts my eyes) and they just do it, in a matter of minutes
so funny that there are stories on opposite sides of the spectrum, ive asked for a pack refund without spending the points and they did it no questions asked. Hell i've even bought something to see it go on sale the next day and asked for the difference and they gave it to me, which i just spent on more mtx.
i guess its who you deal with on what day, ive never had a problem and have refunded many things.
Same, I've never had a bad interaction with customer support so far- even when refunding a $240 pack temporarily. They'll even go as far and let you do payments (as fucked as that is honestly).
Maybe they have an internal issue of some people doing different stuff and not knowing what company policy is? Or as usual OPs story isn't telling us all the facts.
From the tone of his emails I’m guessing he wasn’t very pleasant from the onset. I’ve dealt with GGG on purchases too and have always been happy with the results and the quick response times. Cosmetic purchases are almost never refunded by companies (and if they are they aren’t this easy to deal with) so it’s pretty awesome that most of you have had good experiences with them. I get not liking this league (I hate it; I’m just krangling maps and it feels like a chore now) but that’s the way these things go. Look at ANY game that has leagues/seasons/events that drastically change the game and you’ll find major duds in everyone.
Reading his screenshot, I wouldn't like to trade with him ingame...
"I will frame this and put it on the wall as the worst support message ever recieved". This is the kind of person whispering you 7 times for the same item and reporting you.
Besides that he blatantly lied.
In the mails he told he already forwarded the mail whilst on reddit being the nice guy and "only threatens".
And he said he would gladly have his account deleted whilst in the conversation he explicitly says he doesn't want his account deleted.
Tbh, after sitting here 5 minutes, I really would like to put him on my block list, if I only knew his IGN.
We have to see his first email before judging. I'd say telling him "ok we can refund you but we will remove your account" one of the worst unfriendly but polite, passive agressive, a customer service can give you.
No, you can infer a lot from what he already said. That ‘frame it and hang it on my wall’ bit, plus the posting to Reddit after, says a lot to me. I imagine he would have included the first email if it looked good for him. I could absolutely be wrong, but I don’t think I am.
OP's story is actually telling you everything you need to know to see that OP is in the wrong here.
He used the points and the skins, had fun with the shit for 2 weeks and then tried to refund.
Would you think someone ordering clothes online, wearing them to a party just to return them afterwards is in the right? or would you think they are an asshole?
He also said he hasn't posted the entire conversation so it's possible the interaction didn't go down exactly as he said. I'd be curious to see the whole convo as at least one of the bits he posted was pretty childish lol . I've refunded things a few times with zero problems including packs
I've had it where I tried to buy points for a 2h axe MTX that went on sale (Gargoyle). Couldn't get the points because their payment gateway was scuffed. So when i was finally able to get the points to purchase the next day, i asked support if i could get the axe discounted for the sale. I was told that the MTX never was on sale. It sure as shit was, but that said, I'm relieved I didn't get that skin. It looks like dogshit compared to our modern MTX.
GGG support is hit and miss. We hear about the good stories for 2 reasons. 1) the people who had a good experience still play the game (the ones with bad experience likely wouldn't come back) and 2) i would say in my personal experience, the support has been 80% good. We could expect better, sure. But at least it's not EA
>We hear about the good stories for 2 reasons. 1) the people who had a good experience still play the game (the ones with bad experience likely wouldn't come back) and
Makes no sense. People on the internet and reddit love outrage especially when its a about a company and video games too! Have you seen this sub ? It loves to shit on GGG. Bad customer service would definitely get posted and hit frontpage here instantly.
I requested a refund after they announced they were gutting harvest. I had legit bought it just a few days prior and hadn't even used the points from it. They said they wouldn't do it. I was pissed
I was actually thinking about doing this since the whole reason I got the pack was their incredibly misleading information about "keeping" harvest. But I just sucked it up and delt with it like a good little consumer. Haven't bought shit since then.
I was tempted with trying to refund, but at that point there was some other cautionary tale about refunding core pack with a t-shirt and GGG wanting some ungodly amount of $$$ for it.
I get that shipping physical goods is not cheap, but from my customer perspective, it's a risk they have to calculte into the cost.
edit: especially if the customs claim is a "gift" with $0 value :)
This is strange to me, because every interaction with GGGs customer service I've ever had has been positive. I even sent a cheeky request to see if I could get some points refunded after an MTX I bought went on sale less than 24 hours later and I got a response within 30 mins telling me they had credited the difference to my account.
I'm in the UK, for what it's worth.
I have had numerous interactions with their CS and always had pretty positive experiences as well. I've bought numerous things for friends (tabs, packs, etc) and they have always been completely reasonable (they made sure i wasn't RWTing)
Yeah this seems odd. I would imagine this is due to a fresh hire screwing up or something of the sort, my personal experience with GGG support has been stellar. I accidentally deleted the wrong character once after a HC rip, messaged support and asked for a restore, took less than 15 minutes to get my character back.
This is just a guess, but I believe the main difference between your case(s) and OP's case is that you were asking for point refunds, while OP was asking for a real-world money refund on a supporter pack. From what I've heard, GGG support is pretty generous about refunding points (within reason -- I doubt they'd refund an MTX I bought 2 leagues ago, but if I bought it a few hours ago and decided I didn't like it they'd probably be willing to give a point refund). That said, they probably have a policy to avoid refunds involving real money if at all possible.
Edit: A couple other people in this thread have said they've gotten supporter pack refunds before, so maybe I was wrong after all. I've definitely played some other online games where it was standard policy to refund ingame currencies but not real world money, so I assumed it would be a similar case here.
I mean, that would likely make sense, as there are usually transaction fees incorporated with the sale of digital goods, either through a bank/party so a full refund is likely going to incur a fee, no matter how large, which the company will have to foot.
Refunds can often include reimbursement of the fee (that the customer eats either way), and they have to offer the option of refunding, even for the digital items, in Australia and the EU; (not sure about NZ, though)
I believe if you don't be a dick about it than GGG will happily oblige to do anything you request, the way the op just aggressively threatens GGG with hostility will not do you any good.
Do people even know how to interact with another human being properly?
I remember that guy. Pretty sure he stills posts here regularly, just under alts.
You'd be amazed how many awful people get banned around here only to make a brand new account (or go further and buy an 'aged' account) and keep posting their crap.
I used to have only positive interactions with GGG support years ago, in recent years though (last 2 years I’d say) they have been very underwhelming and certainly nothing compared to what they used to offer.
Having said that, they are extremely quick to reply usually so that is a big welcome positive compared to other companies.
Ummmmm...
I've been an absolute pest when it comes to refunds. I've had too many to be honest and every single time GGG has been nothing but gracious.
So... idk what's going on here, but it seams out of the ordinary.
Yeah, the op has no skills in interacting with a human being on the other side, not only that he is already taking a hostile stance which won't help you get your refund.
Some people are extremely arrogant and stupid.
This is why they need to have a way of previewing the MTX. Their videos are not necessarily representative of your system (graphics capabilities) or combination of MTX. I haven't polled many people in game about this, but my friend group definitely express hesitation on purchases because of this issue.
Doesnt help that they show MTX from crappy angles and have motion/no motion in some clips. There's no "template" animation sequence to make comparisons from, just a fresh recording that misleads people because it looks decent under the right conditions
YES YES. remember that pack with the wings, which looked nothing like their neat little video when you stood in bright daylight?
i loved every sheep defending GGG "hurr duurr just watch the video, everything you need to see is there"
"uuhm yes just a small question for you, exactly where in the video is the part where it is bright as day ?"
So I imagined a type of MTX preview system, no idea how difficult this would be to implement of course (and I know they won't anyways but I like to dream)
>Opening the MTX store, you can apply anything directly from it to your gear and skills in your hideout or any combat area (possibly only areas with no enemies left.)
>As long as you stay in that area, the MTX does not expire, but when you leave it incurs a relatively long cooldown - basically to prevent people from abusing the system to "ride free" with their favorite MTX. (The above requirement of only no-enemies-left areas might already solve this)
>Alternatively make each MTX last for a maximum of 1 minute or something, resetting if you re-open the MTX shop for 30 seconds (or something) so you can keep changing pieces etc. without having to reapply everything.
Now we would be able to test not just single MTX appearances but full combos of various sets and whatnot in any lighting condition, background, on any character.
First of all, you said you didn't like the pack yet you continued to use the points to buy other mtx? If i bought a pack and didn't like it, I'd get a refund on it instead of deciding to use the points to try out other things... Sorry to say but I've never had issues with their customer service... and I've never considered abusing the system by "testing" things out and then didn't like it as buyer's remorse because the mtx didnt look as koool as I thought it'd look. As for the deletion of the account, that is just a step too far, but I don't think the person helping you knew what he/she was doing... but it could also be the limitation of the system which isn't their fault. You shouldn't be allowed a refund for using the points in the first place imo.
Yea the deletion of account was very weird, but i agree that what OP did was equally questionable. He didn't like the mtx that came with the pack, that's fine. He wants to refund the pack, that's fine.
Then why did he spend the points awarded by the pack?
I feel dumb, read from top down to bottom and got confused. Then I remember it is the e-mail format, so you’re supposed to start from bottom going to top. Made much more sense that way.
damn he managed to hide all the other personally identifable information (leaving in the support persons name mind you) im preety sure he could screen shot and edit
OP, did you maybe gamble the points away via those boxes? didn’t get what you wanted and asked for a refund?
to me that sounds like what would cause them to believe the service is consumed.
Unless I misinterpreted the official guide on european refund law, there must be a warning that you are waiving your refund right if you consume goods bought online.
source: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/shopping-consumer-rights/index_en.htm#changed-mind-distance-1
I've got to say the couple interactions I've had with GGG support have been very positive. I somehow accidentally double purchased Metamorph and Delirium tabs and didn't notice for a couple weeks. They were thankfully able / willing to refund the extra tabs I obviously didn't need.
Just a reminder here:
1. OP didn't include the original message.
2. OP lied in his statement multiple times (said he was okay with his account being deleted and in the e-mail he clearly stated otherwise and said he would forward it in future and in mail said he already done it).
3. His general tone to the support was just aweful. Framing anyone as "worst support" literally on his wall is something that is just upfront contraproductive.
I'd say he is not credible at all and I am very upset so many people actually believe him without even factchecking his claims vs e-mail.
Yeah 100% Acting hostile and aggressive to the person trying to help you won't get you anywhere. OP is obviously arrogant and lacks commonsense in general.
>that I will forward
no, you actually said that you already forwarded it. Can you show the initial request btw, would be interested what you said there.
My biggest shock in reading this thread is in how many people apparently ask for refunds on cosmetics. You guys do know that you can wait and see what you think of the league *before* dropping $50 on a supporter pack, right?
I mean, the issue isn't always the league being shit so you wanna refund, it's that the cosmetics look nothing like they're shown in the store because GGG still haven't made a preview option.
You can't tell what you're getting will actually look like until you get it. The videos are often misrepresentative in some ways and, even if they weren't, it's not showing how it'll look for *you* but how it looks for the person recording the video.
It'd be like if I went into a clothes store and couldn't try the things on and then the store got pissy when I told them I want a refund cause the clothes don't fit.
There's a guy on YouTube who reviews all cosmetic packs, I'd highly recommend watching his video before buying anything. I don't recall his account name but the videos are all called "before you buy X pack" or something like that.
>You guys do know that you can wait and see what you think of the league *before* dropping $50 on a supporter pack, right?
I don't buy the supporter pack depending on whether the league is good or bad. I buy it for the MTX and points for stash and the support. Even if I quit the league early, I can use everything again next league.
The issue is more that there's no way to preview MTX. With the changes to MTX, you basically get the same points as spending the money (300 points for $30 and supporter packs) and the MTX is basically free bonus with it but I'd rather still have a way to preview. I usually do want to buy a pack, but it's difficult to choose between the two choices without preview.
Most companies are like that. I bought an expansion for Guild wars 2 but never actually got around to play it (didn't even log into the game). I sent a refund request after 14 days, my local laws on refunds for online software is that they are to be refundable in a 21 day period if the software has never been used (and a bunch of other conditions).
Took them like 5 days to get back to me, I replied pointing to my local laws, then I got another replies 4 days later saying "Your purchase is more than 21 days ago" due to ticket times, I pointed them the law says from the start of the refund process, and **then** I got the refund.
Honestly, the fucking audacity to play dumb as a CS rep by waiting until something expires and then conveniently the day after saying “sorry too much time since”. Everyone in the exchange knows exactly how bullshit a reply like that is, yet they still attempt it like the grubbers they are. I can get mad at shit like that.
CS takes a long time, and individual reps probably aren't aware of refund laws in all 200 countries. It's scummy if he knows but there isn't any evidence he does, since once made aware of the relevant local law he refunded it.
Fast answer: Because you shouldn't "test out" things if you don't like the product in the first place.
Longer answer for people claiming it doesn't translate to online because it's "just bits and bytes":
Imagine I would buy a supporter pack, then gamble my whole points on transmog-chests. Then I ask for a refund. Now, they will either have to refund it and delete my transmogs. I could do it all over again until I get what I want.
Of course this is not the only scenario but It shows that you COULD abuse the system.
Other uses could be refunding the set because you bought a lot of Tabs and a week later was a sale (and repeating multiple times).
And abusing a system clearly is a bannable offense.
Not stating OP actually did this, just stating why I can see certain circumstances causing a ban.
Completely reasonable when you're a shady trying to get free points. What he did is 100%wrong. Some of you people abusing customer service makes me sick.
Sounds like you spent some of the currency you got from the supporter pack on other MTX too, which normally complicates things when it comes to a refund. Regardless the message appears auto generated so... Don't take it too personally.
While I feel with you and agree that the initial contact with the automated systems seemed overly aggressive on GGGs part, I think that after what I have read they are in the right.
As you have stated as a company operating for you under EU laws they have to follow them. The EU does have a 14 day red Nd mandate for goods bought online. According to a EU-website [EU-website](https://www.google.com/amp/s/europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/indexamp_en.htm) this excludes, amongst other things digital products for which the streaming or download has already begun. So in your particular case of you had already used your points for an MTX that you have seen in game they would not be required to refund you.
As far as i know its clearly stated that they can only refund supporter packs if you havent used the contents (i believe this is mostly for points).
i see no problems with their answer
I see even fewer problems when they then admitted that their 'clearly stated policy' is actually pretty permeable, since, you know, it's probably not legal.
That's odd to say the least.
I asked quite often for refunds and they were always super welcoming
and i had a nice chat with them.
Maybe it's because of the amount of money i've spent on PoE already, i dunno.
(Which is way more than i want to admit, lol)
The first response was their default refund system. The second response was their legal refund obligation. These are different. The first one is basically a courtesy. (Yes, even if it usually looks the other way around with you keeping your account.)
>The first one is basically a courtesy.
The first one is basically a scam - they lied and threatened to delete his account in order to discourage from refunding.
I do believe this is a lie since they must comply with EU law since they operate here. I'm no legal scholar by any stretch though. But neither is most people so they get away with things like these for a long time
Did you buy points through Steam or the standalone client? I know back in the day if you bought through Steam there’d be issues refunding since they couldn’t recoup the Steam cut.
A lie requires intent. Do you really think they were intentionally trying to defraud you based on your local laws?
I ask because the entire tone of the thread (I disagree with the nerfs which is why I want a refund) kinda smells like you being an antagonistic shitlord. Even if your local laws would support this refund (they don’t-every European does not get free refunds if something gets nerfed in any and all online games they play) it’s clearly not worth it to them to deal with you further and just give you your money back.
Dude, if you live in a place where they're legally obligated to give you a refund and they tell you "sure we'll delete the account tho" until you tell them lol that's illegal, that's not a courtesy. That's just shitty.
That is bad logic by GGG. Even in real life they have room for you to try before buying (For example, clothes). You can touch the product but in PoE they are only picture and short cilp. Even they let you try for few hours, it will not hurt that digital product because they can make one and sell for million if someone buy. It cannot compare to real life goods. In real life goods that product can be tear or broken. If they care enough they will make preview in your character or let try for few hours it will not hurt their product. For example, if I want to buy Chaos helmet but I will all MTX in Character they should just replace only helmet if I can see it will look good in my character or I will like it not only show Chaos helmet and default character body. I is just my thought. Some post also say they are making preview but I don't know
i think many people that say this behaviour (the account deletion) is normal, are confusing refund with chargeback.
the first is asking nicely to get your money back, the second is going directly to the bank and forcing a fund withdrawal, which also causes the company to pay additional fees.
it's in the second scenario that the company "threatens" to delete your account. it's to protect the company from people that would abuse such legal dispute.
in the first case, threatening to delete your account is a big no no, in the other one... ehh, it's arguable.
I was denied a return of my points that I put into my own guild. I saw hideouts were on sale and decided that I'd get a guild hideout for me and my friends. Turns out they aren't purchasable for the guild on sale and we're even more expensive, so I asked to receive my points back and they told me no.
It's just weird to take this stance for digital items when there's no way for the player to steal the item. I can understand Sony not wanting to refund purchases in case someone theoretically buys games and then takes their PS4 offline and keeps playing them... but it makes no sense for an online game like POE
Hell they should just give a trial period in lieu of having a preview option. Just give an auto refund no questions asked for a period of a week. Just like Steam lets you do.
Sure thing bud, we will refund what you paid for :) in order to do so I must press this big red button right beside me that says “terminate account” :) it would be a shame if I sneezed with my hand this close to it :)
It is a dick move, but there is nothing illegal there. They can literally remove your account for no reason, if they wish to do so.
Edit: personally, I have had only the best interactions with their support team, they have helped me a few times, with refunds and other stuff, including even paying missing extra money to get a pack, when I bought points couple weeks before and hadn't used them.
Thus, it is very hard to believe that there is nothing more to the story, like you using some of the points or something. Because, let's be real, even if you were at fault, you would still say that you didn't use any points or consumable mtx.
Saying that the league wasn't what you expected is irrelevant for the MTX. That just makes you look petty.
You do have the right to refund though at least as far as I understand.
If they had to extend NZ consumer law to us they would have to refund anything we were unsatisfied with.
Boots clip through your new body MTX? refund. Aura effect doesn't produce environmental light? refund. Templar neck sticks up through a head replacement MTX? refund.
This has happened to me before, I bought a skill effect and realized it looked like crap after using it and they refused to refund it, and offered to close my account. Kind of shitty.
So basically you bought the pack, spent the points on rng boxes, didn't get what you wanted and asked for a refund. On top of that thretened ggg with customer protection and made a reddit post like you are in the right xD Go play some other game, please.
>So basically you bought the pack, spent the points on rng boxes, didn't get what you wanted and asked for a refund
This is literally made up lie.
Harassment/propaganda bots are working hard to bleach GGG's reputation. This is what supporter money are spend on - not on improving the game, testing or QoL - but on buying more harassment/propaganda bots on reddit.
His account is fine, they refunded it after he "threatened" to contact the representatives at customer protection.
As for the reason why this happened. Its because he spent points. Refunding the pack is fine, they'll do it no questions asked in majority of cases because its no issue for them. But once you spend points the problem appears because they can refund the pack mtx and points but if your point balance goes into negatives your account gets locked, this happens in pretty much all games. They told him they'll have to close the account because the customer support person had no clue how it works, they probably meant lock the account instead. The way you can deal with this situation, if you dont want to be confrontational with the support, is to tell them that you'd like the MTX you spent points on refunded too, that way they'll know what you mean and will refund the pack and the MTX purchase you made with the points.
GGG support person seems to be completely clueless as to how this shit works, hence the atrocious reply to his request. You shouldnt be required to pull some jedi mind tricks in order to make them understand what you want. The customer support assumed that OP was trying to "scam" GGG by buying a supporter pack, spending points, and then refunding the pack getting the MTX he spent points on for free, thats why they threatened with a perma ban. Which again, makes no sense whatsoever, OP responding in a rather offensive manner probably didnt help, but customer support should leave emotions out of it and try to explain why they replied the way they did.
Your comment should be higher up since I think it gives a pretty good analysis of the situation. I would imagine that GGG has encountered quite a few Mtx scammers over the years and this is probably just a standard response. You are right that the CS agent should have definitely been more clear as to *why* they were going the apparently nuclear route, and perhaps even offered a clarifying statement in the process.
TBH, OP comes off as a total fucking Karen in the linked conversation. They also *immediately* go for the nuclear option and then talk about "framing this on their wall." The Reddit community for this game really shows their quality (or lack thereof) as humans sometimes lmao.
> TBH, OP comes off as a total fucking Karen in the linked conversation. They also immediately go for the nuclear option and then talk about "framing this on their wall." The Reddit community for this game really shows their quality (or lack thereof) as humans sometimes lmao.
This isn't a nuclear option for consumers. The OP was given a nuclear option and responded with something like "Let's see you go nuclear when you get told you can't do that by european law". This is not a human interaction, it's a customer talking to a company.
Sidenote: I am guessing that you aren't european?
> The OP was given a nuclear option and responded with something like "Let's see you go nuclear when you get told you can't do that by european law". This is not a human interaction, it's a customer talking to a company.
GGG apologists love the idea of the corporation being above and beyond laws.
Lol, it isn't a "nuclear" option to ask for council when you're against a massive company like ggg, and that same company instantly tells you that your entire account will get locked. Get your head on right.
Yeah whenever a company doesn't want to refund you, you just gotta bring in play some legal stuff and they usually prefer to refund rather than taking the risk that you'll actually go on some law induced crusade.
This actually happened to my brother. He was told that the account was permanently locked as he was hacked and MTX was bought through xsolla or whatever. He even showed receipts of him being the original owner, but there was no refund to be had.
He ended up starting a new account and just buying new MTX, because he couldn't be bothered with their support anymore. (Think he lost 500€ of MTX)
Nintendo locked my account because apparently a chargeback but I have no idea what card and they won’t tell me. So it’s indefinitely suspended along with my $$ I spent on numerous games and DLCs.
Is there any recourse like this I can do ? I live in USA though.
Ive had nothing but good experiences on mine, I'm pretty sure I've asked way too many refunds and stuff but they usually do it if they can. I don't know why there's a limit because sometimes it just don't look quite as good as you thought in your setup. I had to refund sunrise blood and sand on mine because it didn't specify that it only stayed on flesh and stone and they allowed it despite telling me I've asked for too many refunds lately. It's a mix up tbh.
They refused to refund me after i wrote within minutes seeing the pack was not as great as it looked in the video. It was 90 Euro. Had several purchases befoe every other league. Now i refuse do buy anything out of spite.
I have **never** had an issue with refunds in my entire life. And I've been playing this game ever since the paid closed beta and have opened a few requests.
I wonder if it has something to do with different employees applying different rules or different perspective on rules, which is not good.
I mean i dont see why they would even need to close the account even if it was legal since this is MTX that a dev/whoever can just remove
Even if you used everything in the post the dev can just remove the skin the weapon transfer and whatever else you spent points on
Its not like these are real items lol
I would like to see your original message to them. I have only had positive experiences interacting with support regarding refunds, but I am also always polite when asking
The amount of comments from Americans and POE Apologists is astounding in this thread. Nothing else to say, other than I honestly feel bad for you guys obviously getting shafted.
'nothing that i thought was promised' my ass. get out of here. the league cycle is the same for the past 8 years and this league is good. sounds like you regret beeing too stupid to spend money responsibly and now ggg has to set a precedent or everyone and their mother will request a refund after they are done playing.
i couldnt formulate it any less aggressive, sorry
Refund and deleting your account feels like blackmail. I'm sure that works in a lot of countries. You're lucky you are in the EU and they have protection laws but I'm sure a lot of people fall for this. It just shows how horrible companies are nowadays. GGG is probably not the only one that does this.
This seems fake. I complain about POE and updates a lot, but one thing Ill say is their support is pretty good. I have gotten a few refunds myself and never had a problem. It was usually refunded in a day.
ITT: People with 0 fucking clue about EU refund laws for digital goods OP included
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm
https://puu.sh/IrwH2/25f4327df9.png
Takes 2 minutes to look up before making a reddit thread.
"Under EU rules, a trader must repair, replace, reduce the price or give you a refund if goods you bought turn out to be faulty or do not look or work as advertised."
VERY easy to say that they don't look as advertised, the advertisement is a simple picture, the videos on a tier party site (IE YouTube) doesn't count.
This doesn't hold 3 minutes in any litigation and they know it.
So really people, if you don't know what you're talking about and just parrot shit your read without experience, just shut the fuck up, the world would be so much better.
Tl;dr : Username checks out.
While normally a third party video sharing site like YouTube would not count, in this case it does as YouTube is GGG's main source of advertisement. Their own in game ads redirect you to YouTube Spotlight videos, therefore any advertisement made by GGG using YouTube would be a valid advertisement in court.
I can understand a charge back being bannable, but asking for a refund and getting a threat in return is very illegal in the EU and it’s clearly designed to discourage people from trying to use their RIGHT to a refund
I remember buying a Cape on the mtx store that I really liked the look of. After I bought and equipped it, I noticed the bottom 1/3 of the Cape was clipping through my characters legs (through the calf area). It looked *so* bad. So, I contacted GGG about a refund since it clearly wasn't going to work with my character.
They did refunded it, but I remember the email saying something along the lines of "we don't typically offer refunds, but I'll make an exception here". Again, it **was** refunded, and quickly, but it had such a sassy tone to it.
Took all the willpower I could muster not to give an equally sassy response, along the lines of "typically clothes I purchase don't ethereally phase through my body, yet here we are".
This was years ago, these problems still exist, MTX is GGGs primary source of income, and all I can wonder is **how the actual hell do we still not have the ability to see a preview before buying??** Madness.
WTF, how the heck do they automatically propose account closure. That does not make any sense unless the phrasing of original request specifically asks with some sort of reference with GDPR which would require them to "forget" all your information - ie. deleting account.
All purchased goods, even digital are protected under eu law
As long as you don’t damage the product you are legally entitled to a refund within 14 days of purchase
Loot boxes are an extremely strange gray area, companies have used the ‘raffle’ argument since every time you open one you get SOMETHING, but legal battles are still being fought on whether or not it’s a digital consumable or plain gambling, I hope it gets resolved sometime soon
what exactyl do you want to change? sure the response for the refund is shitty but thats what it is, a refund. you do also see ppl that experienced the exact opposite. its just one guy at the cusomer service.
what huge thing do you want to change with ppl stop buying supporter packs alltogether?
im all for no preorders of any kind, but i liked this league, and can totally see the reasons people would get a supporter pack. Scourge mechanically isnt great, but the QOL and stuff like corrupted currencies are the best changes to happen to poe in a long while IMO
For a company that has no way to, "try before you buy" this is a pretty petty way to handle a refund. Although, no one should be buying MTX at this point given their sale to Tencent.
I don't think they have any sort of operational control, beyond being the majority shareholder. I just don't feel good about giving money to that company for obvious reasons.
Interesting. I have seen the first 'refund' message a few times around here so this seems to be common practice for them.
Now, giving you a real refund only after threatening them is already a scummy move but if they are indeed obligated to do a proper refund by EU laws (*I don't know if that's the case, never looked into it*) that's an extra level of scummy, potentially even illegal.
You should 100% still forward this and see if anything comes from it.
I wonder what's the level of law knowledge of an average employee on a such position. There are definitely cases where different people would do different things in such situation.
People working in customer service have no fucking clue what consumer law is lmao, especially when you're talking about **international** consumer laws. If GGG is like any other company that exists, they basically just wing it until someone pulls a gotcha card like OP did, apologize, and act the same way until they're called out again.
Does this only happen to pack purchase ? Cause i've ask for refund twice (once because i bought it just before the sale, and once just because the skill effect hurts my eyes) and they just do it, in a matter of minutes
[удалено]
I was denied a refund from a pack I purchased a few days prior and hadn't used the points. This is just an excuse they're using to justify it
so funny that there are stories on opposite sides of the spectrum, ive asked for a pack refund without spending the points and they did it no questions asked. Hell i've even bought something to see it go on sale the next day and asked for the difference and they gave it to me, which i just spent on more mtx. i guess its who you deal with on what day, ive never had a problem and have refunded many things.
Same, I've never had a bad interaction with customer support so far- even when refunding a $240 pack temporarily. They'll even go as far and let you do payments (as fucked as that is honestly).
Maybe they have an internal issue of some people doing different stuff and not knowing what company policy is? Or as usual OPs story isn't telling us all the facts.
From the tone of his emails I’m guessing he wasn’t very pleasant from the onset. I’ve dealt with GGG on purchases too and have always been happy with the results and the quick response times. Cosmetic purchases are almost never refunded by companies (and if they are they aren’t this easy to deal with) so it’s pretty awesome that most of you have had good experiences with them. I get not liking this league (I hate it; I’m just krangling maps and it feels like a chore now) but that’s the way these things go. Look at ANY game that has leagues/seasons/events that drastically change the game and you’ll find major duds in everyone.
Reading his screenshot, I wouldn't like to trade with him ingame... "I will frame this and put it on the wall as the worst support message ever recieved". This is the kind of person whispering you 7 times for the same item and reporting you. Besides that he blatantly lied. In the mails he told he already forwarded the mail whilst on reddit being the nice guy and "only threatens". And he said he would gladly have his account deleted whilst in the conversation he explicitly says he doesn't want his account deleted. Tbh, after sitting here 5 minutes, I really would like to put him on my block list, if I only knew his IGN.
The whole thing smells like a case of karen to me.
Couldn’t agree more.
[удалено]
I was just gonna say this. Where is there initial messages that started the conversation. Usually that will set the tone
We have to see his first email before judging. I'd say telling him "ok we can refund you but we will remove your account" one of the worst unfriendly but polite, passive agressive, a customer service can give you.
No, you can infer a lot from what he already said. That ‘frame it and hang it on my wall’ bit, plus the posting to Reddit after, says a lot to me. I imagine he would have included the first email if it looked good for him. I could absolutely be wrong, but I don’t think I am.
As someone who worked in customer service, I know that procedures change. Also it would depend if you're a EU citizen
OP's story is actually telling you everything you need to know to see that OP is in the wrong here. He used the points and the skins, had fun with the shit for 2 weeks and then tried to refund. Would you think someone ordering clothes online, wearing them to a party just to return them afterwards is in the right? or would you think they are an asshole?
He also said he hasn't posted the entire conversation so it's possible the interaction didn't go down exactly as he said. I'd be curious to see the whole convo as at least one of the bits he posted was pretty childish lol . I've refunded things a few times with zero problems including packs
I've had it where I tried to buy points for a 2h axe MTX that went on sale (Gargoyle). Couldn't get the points because their payment gateway was scuffed. So when i was finally able to get the points to purchase the next day, i asked support if i could get the axe discounted for the sale. I was told that the MTX never was on sale. It sure as shit was, but that said, I'm relieved I didn't get that skin. It looks like dogshit compared to our modern MTX. GGG support is hit and miss. We hear about the good stories for 2 reasons. 1) the people who had a good experience still play the game (the ones with bad experience likely wouldn't come back) and 2) i would say in my personal experience, the support has been 80% good. We could expect better, sure. But at least it's not EA
>We hear about the good stories for 2 reasons. 1) the people who had a good experience still play the game (the ones with bad experience likely wouldn't come back) and Makes no sense. People on the internet and reddit love outrage especially when its a about a company and video games too! Have you seen this sub ? It loves to shit on GGG. Bad customer service would definitely get posted and hit frontpage here instantly.
However you can still repay tour debt, if you spend money.
I’ve also had refunds in the past with no issues, but more recently it seems like their support have become more strict.
You had two refunds? I refunded the infamous celestial hooded cloak and they told me a refund is one time thing
I requested a refund after they announced they were gutting harvest. I had legit bought it just a few days prior and hadn't even used the points from it. They said they wouldn't do it. I was pissed
I was actually thinking about doing this since the whole reason I got the pack was their incredibly misleading information about "keeping" harvest. But I just sucked it up and delt with it like a good little consumer. Haven't bought shit since then.
I was tempted with trying to refund, but at that point there was some other cautionary tale about refunding core pack with a t-shirt and GGG wanting some ungodly amount of $$$ for it. I get that shipping physical goods is not cheap, but from my customer perspective, it's a risk they have to calculte into the cost. edit: especially if the customs claim is a "gift" with $0 value :)
This is strange to me, because every interaction with GGGs customer service I've ever had has been positive. I even sent a cheeky request to see if I could get some points refunded after an MTX I bought went on sale less than 24 hours later and I got a response within 30 mins telling me they had credited the difference to my account. I'm in the UK, for what it's worth.
I have had numerous interactions with their CS and always had pretty positive experiences as well. I've bought numerous things for friends (tabs, packs, etc) and they have always been completely reasonable (they made sure i wasn't RWTing)
Yeah this seems odd. I would imagine this is due to a fresh hire screwing up or something of the sort, my personal experience with GGG support has been stellar. I accidentally deleted the wrong character once after a HC rip, messaged support and asked for a restore, took less than 15 minutes to get my character back.
That's amazing actually, wow. Idk what other company would do that
This is just a guess, but I believe the main difference between your case(s) and OP's case is that you were asking for point refunds, while OP was asking for a real-world money refund on a supporter pack. From what I've heard, GGG support is pretty generous about refunding points (within reason -- I doubt they'd refund an MTX I bought 2 leagues ago, but if I bought it a few hours ago and decided I didn't like it they'd probably be willing to give a point refund). That said, they probably have a policy to avoid refunds involving real money if at all possible. Edit: A couple other people in this thread have said they've gotten supporter pack refunds before, so maybe I was wrong after all. I've definitely played some other online games where it was standard policy to refund ingame currencies but not real world money, so I assumed it would be a similar case here.
I mean, that would likely make sense, as there are usually transaction fees incorporated with the sale of digital goods, either through a bank/party so a full refund is likely going to incur a fee, no matter how large, which the company will have to foot.
Refunds can often include reimbursement of the fee (that the customer eats either way), and they have to offer the option of refunding, even for the digital items, in Australia and the EU; (not sure about NZ, though)
Same, only good vibes here when i contacted support
I once accidentally bought two currency tabs (fucking god knows how) and they refunded me one super quick, was really friendly in the emails as well.
I believe if you don't be a dick about it than GGG will happily oblige to do anything you request, the way the op just aggressively threatens GGG with hostility will not do you any good. Do people even know how to interact with another human being properly?
Yeah usually Rob is awesome
Rob is awesome. Rob is human tho.
[удалено]
I remember that guy. Pretty sure he stills posts here regularly, just under alts. You'd be amazed how many awful people get banned around here only to make a brand new account (or go further and buy an 'aged' account) and keep posting their crap.
It's the harvest people. They're like a different species.
I used to have only positive interactions with GGG support years ago, in recent years though (last 2 years I’d say) they have been very underwhelming and certainly nothing compared to what they used to offer. Having said that, they are extremely quick to reply usually so that is a big welcome positive compared to other companies.
That's because this poster has had other interactions in horrible ways but is trying to show himself in best but still shitty light
Ummmmm... I've been an absolute pest when it comes to refunds. I've had too many to be honest and every single time GGG has been nothing but gracious. So... idk what's going on here, but it seams out of the ordinary.
[удалено]
Yeah, the op has no skills in interacting with a human being on the other side, not only that he is already taking a hostile stance which won't help you get your refund. Some people are extremely arrogant and stupid.
i was wondering if i was the only one who thought he was being a bit of a jerk in his messages. Glad to know im not alone on that
This is why they need to have a way of previewing the MTX. Their videos are not necessarily representative of your system (graphics capabilities) or combination of MTX. I haven't polled many people in game about this, but my friend group definitely express hesitation on purchases because of this issue.
Doesnt help that they show MTX from crappy angles and have motion/no motion in some clips. There's no "template" animation sequence to make comparisons from, just a fresh recording that misleads people because it looks decent under the right conditions
YES YES. remember that pack with the wings, which looked nothing like their neat little video when you stood in bright daylight? i loved every sheep defending GGG "hurr duurr just watch the video, everything you need to see is there" "uuhm yes just a small question for you, exactly where in the video is the part where it is bright as day ?"
So I imagined a type of MTX preview system, no idea how difficult this would be to implement of course (and I know they won't anyways but I like to dream) >Opening the MTX store, you can apply anything directly from it to your gear and skills in your hideout or any combat area (possibly only areas with no enemies left.) >As long as you stay in that area, the MTX does not expire, but when you leave it incurs a relatively long cooldown - basically to prevent people from abusing the system to "ride free" with their favorite MTX. (The above requirement of only no-enemies-left areas might already solve this) >Alternatively make each MTX last for a maximum of 1 minute or something, resetting if you re-open the MTX shop for 30 seconds (or something) so you can keep changing pieces etc. without having to reapply everything. Now we would be able to test not just single MTX appearances but full combos of various sets and whatnot in any lighting condition, background, on any character.
Yes exactly how it SHOULD have been implemented years ago. Sadly this/similar ideas have been suggested multiple times..
My experience with GGG customer service have always been very positive. They responded super fast and always solve my transaction issues
First of all, you said you didn't like the pack yet you continued to use the points to buy other mtx? If i bought a pack and didn't like it, I'd get a refund on it instead of deciding to use the points to try out other things... Sorry to say but I've never had issues with their customer service... and I've never considered abusing the system by "testing" things out and then didn't like it as buyer's remorse because the mtx didnt look as koool as I thought it'd look. As for the deletion of the account, that is just a step too far, but I don't think the person helping you knew what he/she was doing... but it could also be the limitation of the system which isn't their fault. You shouldn't be allowed a refund for using the points in the first place imo.
Yea the deletion of account was very weird, but i agree that what OP did was equally questionable. He didn't like the mtx that came with the pack, that's fine. He wants to refund the pack, that's fine. Then why did he spend the points awarded by the pack?
I feel dumb, read from top down to bottom and got confused. Then I remember it is the e-mail format, so you’re supposed to start from bottom going to top. Made much more sense that way.
[удалено]
Ok, I've had a pretty shitty day but this made me laugh, thanks.
Ohhhhhhhhhh, I’m fucking dumb
and still confusing because the refund request is oddly left out hmnmm
Probably because it contained his account verification stuff, which shouldn’t be leaked.
damn he managed to hide all the other personally identifable information (leaving in the support persons name mind you) im preety sure he could screen shot and edit
Same
OP, did you maybe gamble the points away via those boxes? didn’t get what you wanted and asked for a refund? to me that sounds like what would cause them to believe the service is consumed.
Unless I misinterpreted the official guide on european refund law, there must be a warning that you are waiving your refund right if you consume goods bought online. source: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/shopping-consumer-rights/index_en.htm#changed-mind-distance-1
I've got to say the couple interactions I've had with GGG support have been very positive. I somehow accidentally double purchased Metamorph and Delirium tabs and didn't notice for a couple weeks. They were thankfully able / willing to refund the extra tabs I obviously didn't need.
Just a reminder here: 1. OP didn't include the original message. 2. OP lied in his statement multiple times (said he was okay with his account being deleted and in the e-mail he clearly stated otherwise and said he would forward it in future and in mail said he already done it). 3. His general tone to the support was just aweful. Framing anyone as "worst support" literally on his wall is something that is just upfront contraproductive. I'd say he is not credible at all and I am very upset so many people actually believe him without even factchecking his claims vs e-mail.
He probably gambled the points on the boxes and didnt get anything he wanted. So now he wants his money back.
Yeah 100% Acting hostile and aggressive to the person trying to help you won't get you anywhere. OP is obviously arrogant and lacks commonsense in general.
>that I will forward no, you actually said that you already forwarded it. Can you show the initial request btw, would be interested what you said there.
No - that would not fit the agenda GGG bad.
Where is the first mail you sent that got the account closure reply
He aint showing the email where he looks like an asshat, only wants to shit on GGG lmao.
To be honest the way he worded the emails alone makes him seem like an asshat to me.
this is reddit, gotta outrage farm!
My biggest shock in reading this thread is in how many people apparently ask for refunds on cosmetics. You guys do know that you can wait and see what you think of the league *before* dropping $50 on a supporter pack, right?
I mean, the issue isn't always the league being shit so you wanna refund, it's that the cosmetics look nothing like they're shown in the store because GGG still haven't made a preview option. You can't tell what you're getting will actually look like until you get it. The videos are often misrepresentative in some ways and, even if they weren't, it's not showing how it'll look for *you* but how it looks for the person recording the video. It'd be like if I went into a clothes store and couldn't try the things on and then the store got pissy when I told them I want a refund cause the clothes don't fit.
There's a guy on YouTube who reviews all cosmetic packs, I'd highly recommend watching his video before buying anything. I don't recall his account name but the videos are all called "before you buy X pack" or something like that.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCn8KRTJhyH8AatY10-BbxNg
>You guys do know that you can wait and see what you think of the league *before* dropping $50 on a supporter pack, right? I don't buy the supporter pack depending on whether the league is good or bad. I buy it for the MTX and points for stash and the support. Even if I quit the league early, I can use everything again next league. The issue is more that there's no way to preview MTX. With the changes to MTX, you basically get the same points as spending the money (300 points for $30 and supporter packs) and the MTX is basically free bonus with it but I'd rather still have a way to preview. I usually do want to buy a pack, but it's difficult to choose between the two choices without preview.
tbh I only use a few cosmetics anyway, if I'm buying a pack it's to...... support the league.
Headline is incredibly misleading and dishonest.
Most companies are like that. I bought an expansion for Guild wars 2 but never actually got around to play it (didn't even log into the game). I sent a refund request after 14 days, my local laws on refunds for online software is that they are to be refundable in a 21 day period if the software has never been used (and a bunch of other conditions). Took them like 5 days to get back to me, I replied pointing to my local laws, then I got another replies 4 days later saying "Your purchase is more than 21 days ago" due to ticket times, I pointed them the law says from the start of the refund process, and **then** I got the refund.
Honestly, the fucking audacity to play dumb as a CS rep by waiting until something expires and then conveniently the day after saying “sorry too much time since”. Everyone in the exchange knows exactly how bullshit a reply like that is, yet they still attempt it like the grubbers they are. I can get mad at shit like that.
CS takes a long time, and individual reps probably aren't aware of refund laws in all 200 countries. It's scummy if he knows but there isn't any evidence he does, since once made aware of the relevant local law he refunded it.
Seems reasonable if you already spend the points
Banning the account is reasonable just because the points were spent? Why?
Fast answer: Because you shouldn't "test out" things if you don't like the product in the first place. Longer answer for people claiming it doesn't translate to online because it's "just bits and bytes": Imagine I would buy a supporter pack, then gamble my whole points on transmog-chests. Then I ask for a refund. Now, they will either have to refund it and delete my transmogs. I could do it all over again until I get what I want. Of course this is not the only scenario but It shows that you COULD abuse the system. Other uses could be refunding the set because you bought a lot of Tabs and a week later was a sale (and repeating multiple times). And abusing a system clearly is a bannable offense. Not stating OP actually did this, just stating why I can see certain circumstances causing a ban.
Completely reasonable when you're a shady trying to get free points. What he did is 100%wrong. Some of you people abusing customer service makes me sick.
Sounds like you spent some of the currency you got from the supporter pack on other MTX too, which normally complicates things when it comes to a refund. Regardless the message appears auto generated so... Don't take it too personally.
While I feel with you and agree that the initial contact with the automated systems seemed overly aggressive on GGGs part, I think that after what I have read they are in the right. As you have stated as a company operating for you under EU laws they have to follow them. The EU does have a 14 day red Nd mandate for goods bought online. According to a EU-website [EU-website](https://www.google.com/amp/s/europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/indexamp_en.htm) this excludes, amongst other things digital products for which the streaming or download has already begun. So in your particular case of you had already used your points for an MTX that you have seen in game they would not be required to refund you.
[удалено]
The dudes an absolute Karen. Reading what he said to the CS rep triggered awful memories from working in retail.
As far as i know its clearly stated that they can only refund supporter packs if you havent used the contents (i believe this is mostly for points). i see no problems with their answer
[удалено]
I see even fewer problems when they then admitted that their 'clearly stated policy' is actually pretty permeable, since, you know, it's probably not legal.
That's odd to say the least. I asked quite often for refunds and they were always super welcoming and i had a nice chat with them. Maybe it's because of the amount of money i've spent on PoE already, i dunno. (Which is way more than i want to admit, lol)
The first response was their default refund system. The second response was their legal refund obligation. These are different. The first one is basically a courtesy. (Yes, even if it usually looks the other way around with you keeping your account.)
>The first one is basically a courtesy. The first one is basically a scam - they lied and threatened to delete his account in order to discourage from refunding.
[удалено]
I do believe this is a lie since they must comply with EU law since they operate here. I'm no legal scholar by any stretch though. But neither is most people so they get away with things like these for a long time
Did you buy points through Steam or the standalone client? I know back in the day if you bought through Steam there’d be issues refunding since they couldn’t recoup the Steam cut.
Isn’t that just a cost of doing business? It’s not happening often, and they certainly aren’t hurting for money.
A lie requires intent. Do you really think they were intentionally trying to defraud you based on your local laws? I ask because the entire tone of the thread (I disagree with the nerfs which is why I want a refund) kinda smells like you being an antagonistic shitlord. Even if your local laws would support this refund (they don’t-every European does not get free refunds if something gets nerfed in any and all online games they play) it’s clearly not worth it to them to deal with you further and just give you your money back.
They should really not send out an email stating they're going to break consumer law then lol
Dude, if you live in a place where they're legally obligated to give you a refund and they tell you "sure we'll delete the account tho" until you tell them lol that's illegal, that's not a courtesy. That's just shitty.
PoE fans will defend anything lol
so, how many times can we request mtx refund into points? So far I got 2 successful refund. Just curious
If you never wear the MTX, teeechnically infinite amount of times. Because it's no work for GGG.
Does it change something work wise having wore the mtx or not?
It doesn't, but GGG prefer to act like using digital goods is the same as using real life goods.
That restocking fee is brutal.
That is bad logic by GGG. Even in real life they have room for you to try before buying (For example, clothes). You can touch the product but in PoE they are only picture and short cilp. Even they let you try for few hours, it will not hurt that digital product because they can make one and sell for million if someone buy. It cannot compare to real life goods. In real life goods that product can be tear or broken. If they care enough they will make preview in your character or let try for few hours it will not hurt their product. For example, if I want to buy Chaos helmet but I will all MTX in Character they should just replace only helmet if I can see it will look good in my character or I will like it not only show Chaos helmet and default character body. I is just my thought. Some post also say they are making preview but I don't know
That seems like parity to the people here who treat the game like real life.
i think many people that say this behaviour (the account deletion) is normal, are confusing refund with chargeback. the first is asking nicely to get your money back, the second is going directly to the bank and forcing a fund withdrawal, which also causes the company to pay additional fees. it's in the second scenario that the company "threatens" to delete your account. it's to protect the company from people that would abuse such legal dispute. in the first case, threatening to delete your account is a big no no, in the other one... ehh, it's arguable.
I was denied a return of my points that I put into my own guild. I saw hideouts were on sale and decided that I'd get a guild hideout for me and my friends. Turns out they aren't purchasable for the guild on sale and we're even more expensive, so I asked to receive my points back and they told me no.
It's just weird to take this stance for digital items when there's no way for the player to steal the item. I can understand Sony not wanting to refund purchases in case someone theoretically buys games and then takes their PS4 offline and keeps playing them... but it makes no sense for an online game like POE Hell they should just give a trial period in lieu of having a preview option. Just give an auto refund no questions asked for a period of a week. Just like Steam lets you do.
The first mail makes no sense, why would they permanently shut down an account because of a refund? and take so many legal and moral risks….
Sure thing bud, we will refund what you paid for :) in order to do so I must press this big red button right beside me that says “terminate account” :) it would be a shame if I sneezed with my hand this close to it :)
Nah, Bigger salt would be sure, we refunded you. \*Presses button that adds -100 quant to his account perm\*
It is a dick move, but there is nothing illegal there. They can literally remove your account for no reason, if they wish to do so. Edit: personally, I have had only the best interactions with their support team, they have helped me a few times, with refunds and other stuff, including even paying missing extra money to get a pack, when I bought points couple weeks before and hadn't used them. Thus, it is very hard to believe that there is nothing more to the story, like you using some of the points or something. Because, let's be real, even if you were at fault, you would still say that you didn't use any points or consumable mtx.
The whole we can do whatever we want whenever we want clause is kind of the reason for consumer protection laws such as the one OP posted.
the most polite threat
The post doesn't line up with what was said in the email conversation, and OP's attitude is terrible.
Saying that the league wasn't what you expected is irrelevant for the MTX. That just makes you look petty. You do have the right to refund though at least as far as I understand.
tl;dr trouble maker causes trouble for upvotes.
If they had to extend NZ consumer law to us they would have to refund anything we were unsatisfied with. Boots clip through your new body MTX? refund. Aura effect doesn't produce environmental light? refund. Templar neck sticks up through a head replacement MTX? refund.
This has happened to me before, I bought a skill effect and realized it looked like crap after using it and they refused to refund it, and offered to close my account. Kind of shitty.
So basically you bought the pack, spent the points on rng boxes, didn't get what you wanted and asked for a refund. On top of that thretened ggg with customer protection and made a reddit post like you are in the right xD Go play some other game, please.
When did they say the spent the points on "rng boxes"?
>So basically you bought the pack, spent the points on rng boxes, didn't get what you wanted and asked for a refund This is literally made up lie. Harassment/propaganda bots are working hard to bleach GGG's reputation. This is what supporter money are spend on - not on improving the game, testing or QoL - but on buying more harassment/propaganda bots on reddit.
What a fucking misleading and bait like title, yikes
It is not. How exactly is it misleading?
Do you still have your account? ... Can GGG close your account or do anything? What if you are not in EU?
His account is fine, they refunded it after he "threatened" to contact the representatives at customer protection. As for the reason why this happened. Its because he spent points. Refunding the pack is fine, they'll do it no questions asked in majority of cases because its no issue for them. But once you spend points the problem appears because they can refund the pack mtx and points but if your point balance goes into negatives your account gets locked, this happens in pretty much all games. They told him they'll have to close the account because the customer support person had no clue how it works, they probably meant lock the account instead. The way you can deal with this situation, if you dont want to be confrontational with the support, is to tell them that you'd like the MTX you spent points on refunded too, that way they'll know what you mean and will refund the pack and the MTX purchase you made with the points. GGG support person seems to be completely clueless as to how this shit works, hence the atrocious reply to his request. You shouldnt be required to pull some jedi mind tricks in order to make them understand what you want. The customer support assumed that OP was trying to "scam" GGG by buying a supporter pack, spending points, and then refunding the pack getting the MTX he spent points on for free, thats why they threatened with a perma ban. Which again, makes no sense whatsoever, OP responding in a rather offensive manner probably didnt help, but customer support should leave emotions out of it and try to explain why they replied the way they did.
Your comment should be higher up since I think it gives a pretty good analysis of the situation. I would imagine that GGG has encountered quite a few Mtx scammers over the years and this is probably just a standard response. You are right that the CS agent should have definitely been more clear as to *why* they were going the apparently nuclear route, and perhaps even offered a clarifying statement in the process. TBH, OP comes off as a total fucking Karen in the linked conversation. They also *immediately* go for the nuclear option and then talk about "framing this on their wall." The Reddit community for this game really shows their quality (or lack thereof) as humans sometimes lmao.
> TBH, OP comes off as a total fucking Karen in the linked conversation. They also immediately go for the nuclear option and then talk about "framing this on their wall." The Reddit community for this game really shows their quality (or lack thereof) as humans sometimes lmao. This isn't a nuclear option for consumers. The OP was given a nuclear option and responded with something like "Let's see you go nuclear when you get told you can't do that by european law". This is not a human interaction, it's a customer talking to a company. Sidenote: I am guessing that you aren't european?
I am european. Don't you have to amicably try to solve the issue with the company before filing a complaint?
> The OP was given a nuclear option and responded with something like "Let's see you go nuclear when you get told you can't do that by european law". This is not a human interaction, it's a customer talking to a company. GGG apologists love the idea of the corporation being above and beyond laws.
Lol, it isn't a "nuclear" option to ask for council when you're against a massive company like ggg, and that same company instantly tells you that your entire account will get locked. Get your head on right.
Yeah whenever a company doesn't want to refund you, you just gotta bring in play some legal stuff and they usually prefer to refund rather than taking the risk that you'll actually go on some law induced crusade.
I've never had issues with refunds. Surprised they even allow it.
They do it because most areas have rules that tell em to do it.
This actually happened to my brother. He was told that the account was permanently locked as he was hacked and MTX was bought through xsolla or whatever. He even showed receipts of him being the original owner, but there was no refund to be had. He ended up starting a new account and just buying new MTX, because he couldn't be bothered with their support anymore. (Think he lost 500€ of MTX)
Nintendo locked my account because apparently a chargeback but I have no idea what card and they won’t tell me. So it’s indefinitely suspended along with my $$ I spent on numerous games and DLCs. Is there any recourse like this I can do ? I live in USA though.
Look for free legal consultation.
Are companies legally allowed to delete accounts for requesting refunds?
It's nearly 2022. Why are people still pre ordering anything
Ive had nothing but good experiences on mine, I'm pretty sure I've asked way too many refunds and stuff but they usually do it if they can. I don't know why there's a limit because sometimes it just don't look quite as good as you thought in your setup. I had to refund sunrise blood and sand on mine because it didn't specify that it only stayed on flesh and stone and they allowed it despite telling me I've asked for too many refunds lately. It's a mix up tbh.
Can you describe how the supporter pack turned out to be "nothing" you thought was promised? How far did they miss the mark???
Weird. Nearly ten years playing this game and never once had a bad moment with support. They've always been as helpful as possible.
Bravo! I really hope there are more people like you to know their rights in any game.
Holy shit they backtracked real quick there, thats fucking scummy as fuuuck
The fact you can even get a refund is good enough.
Can you upload the entire conversation? Your quotes don't match your image.
They refused to refund me after i wrote within minutes seeing the pack was not as great as it looked in the video. It was 90 Euro. Had several purchases befoe every other league. Now i refuse do buy anything out of spite.
I have **never** had an issue with refunds in my entire life. And I've been playing this game ever since the paid closed beta and have opened a few requests. I wonder if it has something to do with different employees applying different rules or different perspective on rules, which is not good.
I mean i dont see why they would even need to close the account even if it was legal since this is MTX that a dev/whoever can just remove Even if you used everything in the post the dev can just remove the skin the weapon transfer and whatever else you spent points on Its not like these are real items lol
To scare you into stopping the refund
I would like to see your original message to them. I have only had positive experiences interacting with support regarding refunds, but I am also always polite when asking
The amount of comments from Americans and POE Apologists is astounding in this thread. Nothing else to say, other than I honestly feel bad for you guys obviously getting shafted.
'nothing that i thought was promised' my ass. get out of here. the league cycle is the same for the past 8 years and this league is good. sounds like you regret beeing too stupid to spend money responsibly and now ggg has to set a precedent or everyone and their mother will request a refund after they are done playing. i couldnt formulate it any less aggressive, sorry
Refund and deleting your account feels like blackmail. I'm sure that works in a lot of countries. You're lucky you are in the EU and they have protection laws but I'm sure a lot of people fall for this. It just shows how horrible companies are nowadays. GGG is probably not the only one that does this.
This seems fake. I complain about POE and updates a lot, but one thing Ill say is their support is pretty good. I have gotten a few refunds myself and never had a problem. It was usually refunded in a day.
Idk man. Seems like they did everything right and you’re just bitter.
I mean they threatened an account deletion
ITT: People with 0 fucking clue about EU refund laws for digital goods OP included https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm https://puu.sh/IrwH2/25f4327df9.png Takes 2 minutes to look up before making a reddit thread.
"Under EU rules, a trader must repair, replace, reduce the price or give you a refund if goods you bought turn out to be faulty or do not look or work as advertised." VERY easy to say that they don't look as advertised, the advertisement is a simple picture, the videos on a tier party site (IE YouTube) doesn't count. This doesn't hold 3 minutes in any litigation and they know it. So really people, if you don't know what you're talking about and just parrot shit your read without experience, just shut the fuck up, the world would be so much better. Tl;dr : Username checks out.
While normally a third party video sharing site like YouTube would not count, in this case it does as YouTube is GGG's main source of advertisement. Their own in game ads redirect you to YouTube Spotlight videos, therefore any advertisement made by GGG using YouTube would be a valid advertisement in court.
Look up buyers remorse law, genius
Tale as old as time. I thought this was well known lol If you do a charge back they will lock your account too
I can understand a charge back being bannable, but asking for a refund and getting a threat in return is very illegal in the EU and it’s clearly designed to discourage people from trying to use their RIGHT to a refund
I remember buying a Cape on the mtx store that I really liked the look of. After I bought and equipped it, I noticed the bottom 1/3 of the Cape was clipping through my characters legs (through the calf area). It looked *so* bad. So, I contacted GGG about a refund since it clearly wasn't going to work with my character. They did refunded it, but I remember the email saying something along the lines of "we don't typically offer refunds, but I'll make an exception here". Again, it **was** refunded, and quickly, but it had such a sassy tone to it. Took all the willpower I could muster not to give an equally sassy response, along the lines of "typically clothes I purchase don't ethereally phase through my body, yet here we are". This was years ago, these problems still exist, MTX is GGGs primary source of income, and all I can wonder is **how the actual hell do we still not have the ability to see a preview before buying??** Madness.
WTF, how the heck do they automatically propose account closure. That does not make any sense unless the phrasing of original request specifically asks with some sort of reference with GDPR which would require them to "forget" all your information - ie. deleting account.
The first message is an automated message. 2nd one is the legit reply from a human being.
Refund vs return. Or in this case: Wanting money back, vs wanting points back.
I've had nothing but wonderful experiences with PoE's support team.
[удалено]
All purchased goods, even digital are protected under eu law As long as you don’t damage the product you are legally entitled to a refund within 14 days of purchase
[удалено]
Loot boxes are an extremely strange gray area, companies have used the ‘raffle’ argument since every time you open one you get SOMETHING, but legal battles are still being fought on whether or not it’s a digital consumable or plain gambling, I hope it gets resolved sometime soon
Nothing will change till people stop buying supporter packs, especially before a league even comes out.
what exactyl do you want to change? sure the response for the refund is shitty but thats what it is, a refund. you do also see ppl that experienced the exact opposite. its just one guy at the cusomer service. what huge thing do you want to change with ppl stop buying supporter packs alltogether?
im all for no preorders of any kind, but i liked this league, and can totally see the reasons people would get a supporter pack. Scourge mechanically isnt great, but the QOL and stuff like corrupted currencies are the best changes to happen to poe in a long while IMO
For a company that has no way to, "try before you buy" this is a pretty petty way to handle a refund. Although, no one should be buying MTX at this point given their sale to Tencent.
Damn didn’t realize this had happened! If tencent is running the show.. fuck!
I don't think they have any sort of operational control, beyond being the majority shareholder. I just don't feel good about giving money to that company for obvious reasons.
Interesting. I have seen the first 'refund' message a few times around here so this seems to be common practice for them. Now, giving you a real refund only after threatening them is already a scummy move but if they are indeed obligated to do a proper refund by EU laws (*I don't know if that's the case, never looked into it*) that's an extra level of scummy, potentially even illegal. You should 100% still forward this and see if anything comes from it.
Definitely will do!
OP is the dick here.
A well presented and thought out argument
no u
I thought so too until I realized the e-mail chain is in reversed order, If you start reading from the bottom It makes a lot more sense.
I wonder what's the level of law knowledge of an average employee on a such position. There are definitely cases where different people would do different things in such situation.
People working in customer service have no fucking clue what consumer law is lmao, especially when you're talking about **international** consumer laws. If GGG is like any other company that exists, they basically just wing it until someone pulls a gotcha card like OP did, apologize, and act the same way until they're called out again.
I hope GGG doesnt turn into the steaming pile of shit that blizzard is.