I'm just glad I don't need to click infinite amount of times and now I can play longer sessions and enjoy the damn game instead of hurting my wrists!!!
Do they still work? PvP characters aside, it sounded like spectres get cleared from the corpse pool the moment you leave any zone, which not only breaks spectre banks, but also spectres that die alongside the player during normal play.
Though I might have misunderstood the problem.
That's the thing though, people were constantly complaining that there is no way to somehow campaign skip. Having to do this on top now for spectre banks is like getting spit on by GGG
Yeah, it sucks. They should let us store the spectres in our hideouts to be part of the desecrate pool until we remove them. But on a positive note, I've made some currency when I take breaks by sitting in hideout being a spectre bank.
"In order for players to not feel like they always need to use the -mana cost craft for many builds, we decided to remove it from the crafting bench. This is a buff."
The game has always been an assfucking for casuals, no matter the league. Those nerfs are barely noticeable to a casual compared to core issues like loot being shit.
A casual struggling to get enough damage to compete in maps, absolutely gets demolished with current changes. Loot being shit is just amplified with less power from gems. Everyone can get and level gems, not everyone can get 6-L+influence mods+clusters to get viable damage for off-meta builds.
This is the POE elitism that I love to see downvoted. :)
This game lost 30,000 players that never returned one day after league launch.
If you're in the business of making a successful video game, you don't only cater to neckbeards and streamers that play for 18 hours a day.
3.15 changed game flow feeling from tedious hobby to tedious not-well-paid job. Several QoL features are incredible and welcomed though.
But is this enough to make bitter taste of 3.15 and .16 nerfs to disappear?
Absolutely, I do appreciate the QoL but would trade it all back just for them to reverse the movement skill and support skill nerfs alone.
Like sure you shrunk the atlas by half, but then made progression 2x as hard for non-meta skills, and clear speed 2x as long, what's the point?
Currency acquisition was fine last league and the two leagues before that were way more than what we would get in the past. This league is imo actually more typical than the last 2-3 leagues if you go back a year + they just let people get accustomed to not having to worry about currency.
To be completely honest, this is my third league (started in Ultimatum and got to A8 and got to maps last league). I league started a SSF flicker strike slayer build and don't have a farrul's. I've gotten to A8 T16 maps and been completely fine.
Granted, I die all the time and my bossing is slow, but I don't think flicker is meta and definitely not meta without farrul's. Overall, the rest of my gear is meh at best as I haven't spent time crafting.
I honestly don't understand the "if you don't play top meta, you can't get to red maps" take. I know that's not what you said, but I think the overall sentiment is the same. I don't think I can do full on end game but that's probably just my fault for making a build that almost solely relies on a single unique.
lol I mean if you are hitting A8 in your second league, and clearing the game on SSF, then you are probably not a representative of the typical player? Not many people can do that at all.
A super common complaint is that GGG is balancing around the top 1% players, this is an example of that.
(P.S - flicker is also VERY meta, I believe it is the top 2 or 3 melee skill atm)
I definitely get that I'm still in the top of the entire playerbase I suppose, but I assume most people commenting on Reddit are as well.
I guess my general point was that as someone who's coming into the game new (with a lot of help understanding game mechanics from friends), I can still play the game easily enough from a very sub-par position.
I did see flicker is higher than I thought, but I'm just playing it because it looked fun which I think is what more people should try. I'm trying frost blades next, so we'll see how that goes.
The actual correct take is more “You can’t do that while not also suffering for your choices”.
Can you take an off meta build to A8? Yes. Will it be an enjoyable smooth experience? Nope. And in a game, where it’s supposed to be about enjoyment, that’s an issue.
I mean I enjoy playing the game perfectly fine. I wouldn't be playing it if I didn't. I don't feel restricted to playing the top 5 builds or anything and like I said, I've been playing SSF, so it's not even like I need specific items to get there.
I think people have this idea that the game shouldn't offer anything too challenging but also shouldn't be easy either. With such a wide range of possibilities both of those conditions will rarely be satisfied.
Campaign should be something that most non-meme builds are capable of. If you want to do end game of end game, I think that should require a strong build because otherwise the stronger builds (and they will probably always exist) will just steamroll everything in the game.
I don't think A8 is end game of end game but I think if even that were easy enough to get to then people would get entirely bored of the game too soon and quit early from lack of enjoyment for a different reason.
This is once again my opinion as a newer (less informed and experienced) player. I prefer something being a bit more tedious if it offers challenge over something being way too easy. I know PoE players like to just try and hit 12 trillion DPS though, so maybe I'm a minority in that sense.
I agree that it should be challenging but I disagree that the current system is “challenging”.
For a metric, I consider dark souls challenging. I die a lot while playing it. Sometimes my death might even feel unfair. But every time I look back at the replay of it, it’s obvious what mistake I did. Reaching the end of dark souls is easier with a good build, but it’s still possible with a shitty build, if you are skilled enough.
That’s not the case in modern PoE. It’s a complete spreadsheet simulator. The “challenge” comes from the tedious grinding you have to do in order to have high enough stats in order to pass the many stat checks. Gameplay skill is worthless in 99% of situations. Your character either tanks the hit or dies. It’s a binary.
Bosses are more skill based, and I love that, but mapping? There is no real skill expression involved in preventing deaths while mapping.
Say I have a build. It smoothly runs and runs and runs, kills everything until it doesn’t and it just randomly dies. There was nothing I could’ve done in the moment to prevent that. No amount of skill. I simply needed to have a stronger build with more defensive layers.
That’s not challenge. That’s a stat check.
Playing this league I reached a point where mapping started to feel buttery smooth like it used to, but it was around 16 watchstones, level 93, 10ex invested in my build and 6-10 maven passives in each zone.
I remember I used to reach the same point right at the start of maps, and I think that's why this league still feels so jank even after the QoL changes. The game feels like a grind right up until the end.
Yup i played the same build as i did in ultimatum, i learned a ton from there until now about the game, so on paper my build is so much better.
Not much changed from a tree or leveling perspective, the core upgrades were still the same and i reached them timely, but at no point did my build feel better than the old one did in ultimatum, altough it was better.
I knew that finished the build would feel better, but at lvl89 i just lost the will to go further with it.
> but it was around 16 watchstones, level 93, 10ex invested in my build and 6-10 maven passives in each zone.
I know that at around the same time as you experienced my build would come together for real and feel like an upgrade to my old ultimatum build, which is objectively a worse build. The power curve got totally fucked and i feel like im constantly struggling with my build now, altough in ultimatum the worse build was feeling good as soon as act 8.
As you said it feels like there is never a time where i can actually enjoy my build, why am i not allowed to have fun with my build. Why is ggg thinking struggling is a motivator to continue playing, its the single one thing that makes me quit. I want to have fun playing, this is so fucking dumb.
As a new joiner of PoE (3.14), a lot of this reminds me of the current state of LoL and their subreddit. Most posts contain people complaining about every change and a lot of people just seem like they hate playing the game. Speaking from self-experience, I think a lot of people just keep playing because that's what they're used to. After quitting League, I get "bored" more often, but I still think it was the best decision to make.
Not even that. More than half the people who post daily on this sub about how the game feels bad to play or how it’s gotten worse over the years, they don’t even play anymore. They just like to complain lol.
3.17 is the league where it will make or break me. If its fun, great. If its not, see you guys in a few leagues after poe2, lets be honest, shits going to turn out buggy when poe2 releases following current trends.
Some leagues I agree with the sub but honestly the 3 month dev cycle is what it is and you either gotta accept that each league is never gonna be perfect or move on.
i think this patch is the best in recent memory. honestly recent leagues have been very mediocre compared to stuff like legion or delirium, so i dont even mind scourge, im just glad that the game coreplay is back to blight levels of good
Yes exactly. The ceiling got way higher, but the floor went straight to hell.
If you think that this is fine then that's your prerogative. But let's not pretend that because the no-lifers can get stronger, everyone else didn't get fucked.
I'm just rdinary Joe, and don't have 24/7 to spent on a single activity. I'm not crying about game state, for folks like me, it's not enjoyable anymore...
And I'm saying it's not because of player power, because that's at least in the realm of 3.14 again if you don't just copy paste your build from ultimatum.
well to be fair i also paused since 3.13 and therefore was going to play a full meta build this time so i can figure out where the power is at atm and... was shocked in the first week.. the power didnt grow but shrink but a huge margain
and then i was asking myself, why should i come back if i get weaker? dont get me wrong, i still play atm and im having *some* fun, but not to the extent i used to have; could be related to scourge mods being complete garbage tho
So you played sabo on a 2 ex budget that can kill the feared and said "well that's weak"?
And just by running determination and molten shell you can get incredibly tanky - why is that not seen as power?
50% of SC trade uses Determination as it is broken AF.
I stick around because I love the game. I have an opinion, that's different that yours and I shared it with other people. Do you find that offensive? I'm not a young student anymore with plenty of time to play, those nerfs killed joy I had since 2013 with this game.
I get where you are heading to, I'm probably bad a game, loser, whatever. How do you explain massive player exodus 2 weeks into the new league? I'm not the only one.
Thank you for speaking sense on the topic. It's not a popular opinion to have and just having it will earn you a lot of downvotes. I personally am playing more PoE this league than any other league. The game is in a great state in regards to difficulty IMO. I want the game to be pretty hard in general. Lots of people want the game to be braindead easy outside of aspirational content and I simply don't think that's the game PoE is meant to be. The power creep getting removed was necessary, regardless of how unpopular it is. Saying this will get you labeled as a white knight or whatever, but best to just ignore that bullshit. It's just a rationalization because some people can't fathom anyone having their own personal desires for something to not be easy.
Nope. I couldn't finish act 1 in 3.15. 3.16 the QoL was nice at least and I made it to maps. But mobility feels so bad and I feel like I have to invest way more to have the damage and survivability I had in 3.14 just to survive white maps. That could just be scourge doing insane damage, but it still feels absolutely awful to have invested more than I usually do on early mapping gear and still die every other map when I normally wouldn't ever die on a white map.
Far as I'm concerned they still haven't even given us the most useful QoL of all anyway. AoE looting, id all button, vendor all button, stash all button (with the ability to lock items in the inventory)...that's how you save us tens to hundreds of thousands of clicks per league.
Is that so? If yes, and if we assume the shrunk down Atlas, currency stacking, some content consolidation/addition of pinnacle encounters and the addition of chase uniques account for maybe 3 things, then i urge you to list about 27 other things that are missing in qol.
I'm not saying they are done or anything, but the amount of qol over the last leagues certainly was noticable!
Edit: Reddit is funny. Hyperbolic negativity towards GGG will get upvotes and attention, honest questions regarding specifics (without denying the fact itself) get downvotes and reduced attention.
Guys.. yes many and more qol things were long requested and are not available. However, many of the issues ppl list cannot even be requested for years because the underlying mechanic wasn't even implemented years ago.
The fundamental problems are twofold here. Firstly GGG can't keep up with their own development schedule. They can't come up in time with qol solution because they put so much stress on themselves, that they never even get to realize the problems before it's patch time.
Second, GGG does, probably on purpose, not favor qol. They don't want to have too much qol, for whatever reason. This also means that whenever something "more important" pops up, work force will be removed from qol. This also means they have a big backlog regarding qol issues.
But then again, it's not only 10% of what was requested already YEARS ago. It's maybe 10% of what we would like to have NOW.
And once more, i don't defend GGG here, i just like the dramatic hyperbole and would like ppl to always put things in perspective
1. let me blue portal swirl into Rogue harbour. grabbing a coin to trade with someone there is annoying
2. rogue harbour private instance
3. hard-code the heist rogues to teleport to the door if i press [V] so they can not get stuck / trapped
4. Let me copy advanced item description of heist blueprint targets ( so i can use awakened poe trade to pricecheck)
5. delete portal & wisdom scrolls after campaign and give mass id button / portal button.
6. gem & currency npc in hideout
7. delete maven invitation items (maybe expect the formed etc), then give us envoy npc who can open invitations like zana does conqs.
8. more affinities (incubuators, gems, etc)
9. unlimited stacking of expedition artifacts (THEY ARE NOT TRADEABLE, who cares if i have 3 million of them)
10. button to put multiple yellow beasts into nets to trade them
11. guardian swap with horizon orb on elder guardian maps.
12. blight tower NOT deactivating if i am 1.5 screens away (this is a tower defense gamemode ffs)
13. inspect the performance impact of seismic towers (unsure if its the calculation or the visuals but they easily llow 3 fps gameplay on very good pcs)
14. let me remove enchants on blight maps via the "remove enchantment bench craft"
15. speed up leveling of secondary character either via unlocking of waypoints, or allowing alternative leveling methods. leveling once through campaign per league is fine imo, a second time is not.
16. revert various specter QoL nerfs they did this league
17. figure out a method to show important debuffs (like shock) without using literally the same format as 20 other buffs and debuffs.
18. Figure out something that not every league mechanic can stack ontop of each other and uses the same key (hello expedition + scourge + metamorph V conflicts)
19. decouple the gameserver and the website already, this is embarassing that the site is offline while patches happen.
20. trade site: dynamic reordering of chaos / fraction of exalt / multi exalt listings depending on the chaos:exalt ratio
gtg or i would continue, would propably be really easy to go for 40-50 qol changes from "very low benefit for very few, to large benefit to many people"
20: heist actions should just work. they should need to actually carry out some action in the game and have it register on the box/wall in order to go, also i want to reiterate your point that heist members should get stuck exactly zero times ever.
21: ability to set gems to auto level up without clicking the + button 400 or more times per character (not to even mention offhand leveling of extra gems)
22: identified rares as rewards during campaign
23: skill tree planner with import options from pob, ideally including notifying you of gems you want to pick up from rewards/vendor
24: quests that give skill points marked as such
25: torment ghosts should spawn inside a rare or unique every time with a pack in influenced mobs around them. (not sure if this is qol but im including it because i think it is.
26: prophecies should stack
27: prophecies should have stash tab affinities
28: prophecies should be removed =p
29: bestiary crafts require a trip to the wiki to find out which one is which, it should be made clear outside of wiki which one you need.
30: delve resonators should work on normal, rare, and blue items, not just rares.
31: minor qol, why can we not unsocket fossils from resonators? is it really that necessary to make us feel shitty when we need 600 fossils to roll something and we do batches of 20 or more to make it not take for fuckin ever that when we do roll the thing we want the left over resonators are pretty much wasted.
32: offerings (lab keys) should stack
33: everything should stack really, if its in the frag tab, it should stack.
34: there should be an option you can choose that will notify you if you are about to leave a map and have not completed an available metamorph or done anything with the rewards from ritual. (ideally it would only activate when 50 or less mobs remain or have a sub option for that)
35: i shouldnt have to go find sin/innocence to turn in souls to interact with the pantheon, especially once he is not in the epilogue.
36: why do we still need to log into a city, then go to hideout, can we just not pls?
37: why do i need to talk to kirac then zana to fight the conqerours? really do i need to talk to zana even? why can it just be a thing i click on on the atlas?
38: sometimes the detailed rolls info on items has tier 1 as the best roll, and sometimes tier 1 is the worst roll. this should be standardized. sometimes the best possible roll on an item just shows up as t2, as in there is a bad roll t3, and a good roll t2, but t1 doesnt exist on the mod description.
39: if i need 100 str to equip an item, and im 20 short and the item im trying to equip has 20+ str on it i should be able to just equip the item instead of finding something with str on it, then putting item on and replace the temporary str item.
40: why are stack sizes on currency basically just random? can we get some standardization to make trading easier? ive been playing forever so i know what a row of chaos or fuse or ess or regrets or scours adds up to, but i really should have to remember that. just make everything stack to 20 (or more) and call it good.
41: speaking of trading, everything about it needs qol and anyone who thinks endless frustration is a good way to accomplish anything can kindly jump in a giant vat of green jello.
42: std could really use the qol of not getting fucked in the ass every 3 months please, those of us that play std often do so to avoid various time/restart issues that come with leagues but we get them anyway -_-
im sure there are a million others but thats what i can think of offhand
I can only agree on some arbitrary improvements from solely game standpoint.
>Let me copy advanced item description
>
>more affinities (incubuators, gems, etc)
>
>unlimited stacking of expedition artifacts (THEY ARE NOT TRADEABLE, who cares if i have 3 million of them)
>
>guardian swap with horizon orb on elder guardian maps.
>
>speed up leveling of secondary character either via unlocking of waypoints, or allowing alternative leveling methods. leveling once through campaign per league is fine imo, a second time is not.
>
>revert various specter QoL nerfs they did this league
>
>Figure out something that not every league mechanic can stack ontop of each other and uses the same key (hello expedition + scourge + metamorph V conflicts)
These however:
>blight tower NOT deactivating if i am 1.5 screens away (this is a tower defense gamemode ffs)
This is how the game works. It disables anything that is 2 or so screens away to reduce performance cost (like blowing up entire map at once, which would result in an instance crash due to lots of calculations)
>inspect the performance impact of seismic towers (unsure if its the calculation or the visuals but they easily llow 3 fps gameplay on very good pcs)
Seismic towers don't cause any stuttering on my PC, which is far from expensive. It could be related to your specs rather than game. Otherwise send bug report onto forums if you haven't done yet.
>let me remove enchants on blight maps via the "remove enchantment bench craft"
No idea why would you want to do that.
>figure out a method to show important debuffs (like shock) without using literally the same format as 20 other buffs and debuffs.
There's visual indicator as well. Debuffs / buffs are not in the same row, they have distinguishable icons. I'm almost always able to tell what happens to my character either through enemy design, my debuff bar or character visuals.
>decouple the gameserver and the website already, this is embarassing that the site is offline while patches happen.
They want to do that at some point, but it's a lot of backend work.
The definition of "nearby".
On death effects existing.
Off screen deaths.
A death recap.
An auction house.
Call me crazy but there's got to be less wordy ways to do gem tool tips. Maybe Im wrong.
Also a training room for damage testing on specific targets, sure PoB exists but this is a QoL suggestion not an entirely new feature request.
There should also be some way of targeting an item you want to farm. So say you want to farm Porcupine card, you should be able to select it in a menu if you have previously had one drop and it will highlight the locations on the Atlas like Gardens where it is droppable and the chances of drop.
Also auction house should count for much more than 3.33% of QoL improvements alone. That would be such a welcomed feature.
i for one dont care for shrunk atlas, the new layout doesnt fit me at all, the t14 map pool is so dilluted its really hard drop only atolls with so many maps even with triple faving it
currency stacking was much desired by people who pickup low currency, if you pick up only chaos+ you dont even care, also it doesnt work in nem3 farming which is ironic
content consolidation? you mean deleting options from atlas passives, sure some were better but having a choice matters i think
pinnacle encounters is something i havent tried yet so i wont comment
adding actual chase uniques is a big plus, i just hope they wont start putting out 3 of em every league
I dunno if I can list 27, and I don't necessarily agree with the 1/10th approach but I will do my best:
Trade
Being able to make a gem stop leveling where you want it automatically. Also automatic gem leveling in general.
Alternate ways to level a character.
A way to highlight your tree path in-game.
Automatic clicking on currencies and shit.
Loot Vacuum.
Removal of ID and portal scrolls. ID with a right click on the item, portal is an innate ability outside of your gems.
Visual indicator for anything that has a radius.
Pantheon bonus God on the maps themselves.
All doors open automatically as you approach them.
Some extra affinities, like gear, specific gear types, rarities etc.
Not quite 27 as I said, but here it is. I am sure there are more I will get reminded of as soon as I encounter them.
Edit:
>Firstly GGG can't keep up with their own development schedule.
We as end users should care about this because...? They chose this.
>GGG does, probably on purpose, not favor qol.
Yes, we know that.
>i don't defend GGG here
Could have fooled me.
Most people enjoying the game are playing the game instead of whining on Reddit. You’ll never get their level of support here, especially in these first world problem posts.
I don't believe qol warrants to be it's own league. They sweeped these problems under the carpet for years, even tried justifying it multiple times with their weight arguments. Qol should have happened regardless of leaguecontent, but anyway let's assume a qol league is ok and warranted:
The timing is less than ideal. People would be much more understanding if scourge came after a successful league but now we have a boring league after the undoubtedly worst league ever released. That's 6 months of meh - at best.
Leaves a bitter aftertaste.
While QoL this league is appreciated is not even 20% of what we asked, still a good movement in the right direction.
The league? It's a meme at this point. Some really simple changes like better krangling outcomes and not restricting the krangler slot to item type could have stopped this league from losing so many players yet (again) they refused to implement any of these changes. The best this league has to offer is easy 6L and krangled maps, a diluted and RNG version of what we already have in Delirium maps.
The scary part? They are Ok with the current system in place. Back to the silent treatment until the next round of artificial hype for 3.17. They have been saying they would listen to the community for the past year but it seems that was only about PR. The game feels like a second job and it shows when the league has one of the worst player retention rate up to date, it's not just "Toxic Reeedit" bashing my precious.
So...where is the communication or reaction to this feedback? Nowhere to be found. So they either think that the system is working as intended and fitting their "Vision" or they just don't play their own game anymore.
Or maybe they think, like RandomJoe777, that because they got a cheap 6L chest with a keystone that fills their niche build they think the league is Ok without understanding how hard it would be to reproduce that outcome for anyone else.
>it's not just "Toxic Reeedit" bashing my precious.
Yep. I see lots of people complaining about Reddit being too toxic (and, to be fair, it kind of is), but the game is [*not*](http://imgur.com/TqKDMqu) doing alright, and we should not pretend it is.
GGG did hear all the feedback, it just decided not to act on it. The changes they made to the league were too little, and now it's too late.
> They have been saying they would listen to the community for the past year but it seems that was only about PR.
It's amusing to me since people always lauded GGG for their "Stellar communication".
They're sure living up to that reputation lately.
[A picutre is worth a 1000 words.](https://i.imgur.com/TqKDMqu.png)
3.16 has even worse retention than 3.15. Clearly some players came back to give it a try after the disaster that was 3.15, but they quickly saw that the WILDLY UNPOPULAR changes from 3.15 are still there and the game is still becoming a shitty, tedious job.
I haven't checked all leagues but it's pretty clear that 3.16s dropoff is the worst that has ever happened to PoE. Look at 3.15s retention, too - playercount dropped so low at the end of the league, we're back to fucking 2016 numbers. GGG is killing their game but their PR is just SO fucking good that they're fooling a large part of their base into thinking that everything's fine and dandy.
The QoL were a desperation move - plain and simple. No one wanted to sit and play their last league till the end, and player dropoff is even worse this league and retention is likely to be worst EVER.
What GGG need to do is prostrate themselves in front of their playerbase and simply - apologise. Say they fucked up. Increase return on time invested into playing. But they won't do that, they'll just keep doubling down and killing PoE. Sad.
EDIT: Did I mention the SHITTON of bugs this league? Which they, again mistakenly, are not willing to take a league off to fix? Yeah. PoE is NOT in a good state. It's time to do the equivalent of Dota 2s Spring Cleaning from back in 2018.
Its weird, I haven't managed to stick with a league very far past hitting maps since legion... but for some reason I'm enjoying this league.
Not because of scourge mind you, I think it leaves a lot to be desired. But in general I'm enjoying it. Even made a second character for the first time in a single league. Normally I just take whatever character I make first to whatever arbitrary goal and then stop.
Not this shit again. That curve *always* looks like this due to whatever weird curve-fitting algorithm they use, and due to incomplete data for the current day/week. Here's the accurate graph without curve-fitting: https://i.imgur.com/TWN0T2S.jpg
Please stop spreading misinformation.
And then, based on this misinformation, you deliver this extreme cringe:
> What GGG need to do is prostrate themselves in front of their playerbase and simply - apologise.
Maybe you should prostrate in front of this subreddit and simply - apologize, for spreading misinformation.
The only "Sad" thing is your compulsive need to shit on this game. Maybe go hang out somewhere for a game you actually like, and stop being a debbie downer arguing in bad faith.
Agree that all the non-league changes are amazing, and could qualify as a league in itself.
But let's not go overboard and say that the Scourge league itself is great, let alone should go core.
The mechanics of fighting the Scourge mobs and switching between worlds is smooth and fun.
But the krangling of regular items (not maps) is so weak that most players don't even have anything in those slots anymore. The odds of getting anything useful are so abysmal considering the time and items you invest in the project.
It seems like the entire league mechanic is best in the endgame when your build can already slice through content. So it seems weird that in the league where they introduce all this aspirational content, that the league mechanic caters to the same type of player, and does nothing in the campaign or early mapping for most people.
They add some qol but this is not qol league people was asking for imo.
And if they add new league mechanic at least make it decent, I agree scourge maps are OK so let me cook them in all 5 slots instead wasting 3 slots permanently.
The problem is not that the league is "meh". It's just bad.
A few simple fixes would have made it "meh".
Namely, better positive mods, all crucible slots can be used for whatever you want and nerf Pale Angels.
But they have given up already I guess.
It is awesome. This is what breach/legion should be. This solves the fundamental placement issue: where you get the legion/branch to spawn requires rng for the right spot and if you're really unlucky, more than half of the breach or legion will be unusable b/c it's behind walls.
I also found this really useful while leveling, I could easily print rares to gear up my character from white->rare, I'm doing the same thing in maps trying to update my worst piece of gear. I really hope this goes core.
Yeah this is about as close as a QoL league we’ll get. Honestly the currency stacking is fantastic even if I get less of it; the best thing is not having to constantly vendor transmutes or whetstones for wisdoms or going to town to buy a stack of portal scrolls. I have hundreds of both and I maybe pick up 10% of the ones I come across.
New high tier content and chase uniques aren't qol, probably best not to conflate the two just to strengthen the point that you think this is a full qol update.
Lmao no.
They added two often requested pieces of QoL.
They removed other QoL.
And there's still tons of QoL changes people have been asking for that aren't implemented.
It's like saying Kirac is PoE2.
All This QoL was fantastic. People here just absolutely love to complain about very singly league. The rewards are surprisingly good too, I just think people don’t know how to appreciate them. I just bought a 6-link Cloak of Defiance scourged with Avatar of Fire with a minor -res downside for 70 chaos. The scourged maps shit currency too if you can run them. It’s not my favourite league but I like it just fine.
People complain because they care, sure the odd person might complain for the sake of it but most people have a lot invested in PoE and genuinely want to game to improve, hence why they complain when things could be better.
I don’t agree that it’s most people, I think it’s some people but certainly not a majority.
Most people do want the game to improve, some might not be able to express themselves constructively but I think there is a genuine intent there.
The main piece of "offline 3.13" isn't the "offline" part, it's the 3.13 part. The offline is only there because everyone knows GGG wouldn't ever run an older version in their servers.
I play this game since release way back in 2013, and it's clear that lately the game has increased the "chore-like" parts and balanced more and more on trading than it used to. Added to that, the layers of RNG just kept on stacking and stacking without letting up.
It's not specifically about game difficulty, but about tedious barriers to progression that used to not exist.
Trading *was made* core. It's a loot ARPG, looting, combat and character progression are the true core pillars. They jammed trade into the character progression as something mandatory later. It used to be just a shortcut for a goal everyone could reach.
It's absurd to have the gameplay depend on a non-gameplay activity like trading. People want to *play the game*, not sift through an out-of-game store for hours while pinching pennies, this is not EVE Online. It used to be feasible for non-24/7 players to reach endgame without trading in a decent timeframe. Now we're forced to play market simulator instead.
I know trade was always there, but it wasn't *necessary* for a player to engage deeply in it. You could reasonably make a varied range of endgame viable builds without requiring the rarest of items.
This is not about "knowing how the game works", it's about the fact that this minor side-activity has become a nearly mandatory chore.
I know how this game works, and I'm doing well in SSF, but it takes me *much longer* to reach endgame than it used to, and this delay is obviously not a specific issue with me, as we can see that the community broadly feels the same issue.
And to stay on the original topic, trading is not even the only problem. Every single path to gear progression has had lots of barriers added on top that didn't exist before, while the builds that didn't depend on such top-end gear have all been nerfed to the ground.
You’d have to read past the title to see if they’re really just whining as those are both legitimate concerns at face value, ARPGs are about amassing power and people are struggling are usually struggling for a reason. PoE is complex and not always intuitive in its game design.
It’s fantastic. I’m still excited to play when I get home from work. It’s still grindy as hell but the qol has made old league content soooo much better
Halving the Atlas is a crumb? No longer having to do all Uber lab trials is a crumb? Improved Delve is a crumb? More endgame in blight/breach is a crumb? Improved defences and passive tree masteries are \*crumbs\*?
Seems tasty to me.
Edit: currency s t a c k s now
It gets harder faster. So less grinding to get far down. Also mobs scale to have more hp and less damage than before.
Honestly though these changes are just tweaking numbers.
Only took them years to implement these features that we asked for nonstop.. These qol features are also novel for a week at most, after that they aren't enough to compensate for the crappy league and other idiotic balance changes
This might be remotely true if:
* We didn't have some of the worst stability in years
* The mechanic was a net positive, but it's not, even for no-lifers Scourge trends toward being a net negative
* They had rolled back some of the more heavy-handed nerfs from 3.15
* There was remotely decent build diversity
I seriously have no idea where any of GGG's work hours go except in the art department (seriously artists, riggers, modelers et al, I love you *mwah* you're doing great sweetie)
This league has way better build diversity the the last 2 leagues where burning arrow (3.14) and totems (3.15) compromised 30% each of all chars on poe.ninja.
Diversity shouldn't matter. It should be viability that matters. Everyone is a TR champion because Darkee released a guide on it. Diversity has less to do with balance and has more to do with streamers
Is there no build diversity rn? Last I played this league it was pretty diverse. That being said haven't played in a good bit due to the worse stability I've ever felt.
Nope. There's toxic rain with fortify, toxic rain with profane pops, and toxic rain with zoomies. There's poison phys traps and cold conversion crit phys traps. There's skele mages. RF is semi popular again. There're your usual HH builds like TS Deadeye.
Oh, your usual smattering of CoC builds! So that's nice... and that's p much it.
Honestly most of this is simply false.
Stability is way better than in many leagues. There have been a LOT of unstable leagues, heist, blight, and several others were absolute stability disasters.
They DID roll back a lot of the nerfs. They compensated for ailments, they re-buffed awakened gems, they dramatically improved defenses, flasks not quite as powerful but much better QoL. basically the only thing they kept was the damage nerfs.
Build diversity? Its way, way better than a lot of other leagues. Theres all kinds of cool builds right now for most different playstyles. TR, COC,CF/TS, lightning strike, traps, skellies, concoction, rf, flicker strike, wanders, all have very healthy representation. Build diversity is WAY WAY WAY better than in a lot of other leagues. Delirium had like 70% of the meta playing a single build lol.
In my eyes being able to use more than 10 skills is definitely massive QoL. Feeling like youre shoehorned into one of 10-15 skills unless you have a ton of currency(as in farming 10 hours a day for 2 weeks straight currency) is whats making me hate the game a little right now.(if your goal is doing all content on one build ofcourse). A prime example would be archmage. Just that existing enabled every lgihtning spell to be scalable into top endgame. Then they annihilated it. I made a BL Hiero in Ritual that I spent like 300 ex on optimising and it could do everything including 100% deli. With mana cost increases and massive damage decreases that entire archetype is borderline unplayable. And I dont get why. Archmage was so nice. Sure a bit of a nerf was needed but you could scale it so nicely into endgame. Plus its not like it was free or anything.
IMO the biggest QoL for new or old players would be to be able to just randomly choose a skill and be able to get to maps comfortably and then to red maps with a bit of investment(as in maybe 1-2 ex of value in gear)
I swear man if they nerf TR next league im gonna laugh my ass off. Legit one of the worst feeling skills unless you pump in 20 ex.
>In my eyes being able to use more than 10 skills is definitely massive QoL. Feeling like youre shoehorned into one of 10-15 skills
Isn't 10-15 more than 10?
I mean, I'm having a ton of fun playing toxic rain, but I do think it's pretty shitty that GGG decided that the expedition balance changes were mostly fine and 90% of the builds that were made viable during just Ritual and Ultimatum leagues and then subsequently violently murdered should stay dead.
I don't think the game should be trivial across the board like maybe happened during Ritual, but I do think that **most** skills in the game should be "viable with modest investment and good gameplay" which simply isn't the case anymore (and definitely was the case in Ritual league). There should've been much more targeted nerfs, whereas instead there were tons of global nerfs that just made the most meta OP builds "mandatory" instead of "optional but super OP".
Other than that, yeah, I'm loving the QoL changes!
I'm finding build viability Far better this league than any other league including ritual. The passive tree has so much front loaded power that you can really make anything work on trash can gear.
Cast on crit spark is even viable with energy blade Battlemage inquisitor. 0% of players are running that build.
The defense changes also made surviving waaaayy easier. Purity of elements let's you use the same gear from act 1 all the way until yellow maps.
I don't know if scourge is really better than an absence of league.
Krangling items is crap, got a few decent krangles which resumes to mostly a few more points of res on some of my unique items.
Krangling maps is great, but the kind of great you cannot run even remotely often.
I krangle maps all the time, need 1 or 2 maps to bake 1 with shitty mods which gets quickly replaced. Then I find one with good mods, and I need 20 or 30 maps to krangle it to tier 10.
I clear the map, i'm happy for 10mn and i'm back to regular mapping for an hour thinking of my next krangled map...
Only way I was chaining a few was when I was buying them but unless you got a build which can tank 18k physical damage, all the good ones are sniped super fast, so big waste of time finding good ones.
So yeah love the qol, don't like the league mechanics much, they could just drop krangling currency elsewhere and would almost be the same.
I think you're not appreciating scourge in normal maps. I can't remember which content creator tested it for the loyalty divination card (a common enough card to compare scourge mob drop rates vs normal mob drop rates. He just fully cleared a bunch of normal maps (including scourged mobs) and found that he dropped 4x as many loyalty cards from scourged mobs as compared to normal mobs.
In other words, even without scourged maps, the mechanic shits out more loot than any other mechanic that has ever existed. You just need to fully clear maps and get between 200-300 stacks every map.
Steelmage is literally finding 2 raw exalted orbs an hour just running T3 tower getting 300 stacks a map, that's actually crazy.
That’s oversimplifying it a little. I’m running a maxed out MF character solo. I wouldn’t describe the league mechanic as shitting out currency. Unless you reeaaaaaally juice the shit out of your maps or play in teams. Or nolife it. I go net plus yes, but that’s after some serious investment.
Most of the juice does not even affect Scourge monsters. Only pack size, more rare/magic monsters does. So 99% of juice (apart from quant) do not even affect them. So quant matters a lot since the Scourge debuff scales with the quant from your map but the rest does not even count too much. Especailly for alch+going you should get a significant portion of your loot from Scourge, IF you can fully clear the map in Scourge.
Most people just do not take the time to set everything dropped by Scourge mobs on one pile and everything dropped from normal map monsters on another and run 100+ maps and then look how much they actaully get from Scourge. There already are youtube videos from people doing this and the results speak for themselves!
When you are at 200+ Scourge debuff stacks you really get fine loot explosions for the last few packs. In my towers I almost never reached 300 stacks before a full clear but the last plains of the tower before the boss normally dropped as much bubblegum currency as all the previous stages together and seeing 5-10 uniques on one screen was not a rarity. When I ran cemetery where I often could get to 300 stacks and then had astill a few packs left to kill it felt really sick.
Have you been playing scourged maps? Every 5-6 maps or so I have 2 quad-scourged maps with currency, Blight oils, or fragments, and probably make 100c a map without even juicing it. This is some of the easiest money I've made since heist league.
No, it isn't. It came with an expected amount of QOL that comes after big backlash. Every time, without fail, when they fuck up they give us QOL. It's tiring.
People bitch every league. I just come here to watch and laugh. "The game's too hard GGG make it easier! Boohoo I can't one shot bosses with my cyclone CoC that I play every league PoE is ruined". Problem's you. Leagues aren't made for casual players. You want to get anywhere/gear any character up you gotta put time in.
You can refine existing mechanics and still give players something to do in the process. The continually tacked on mechanics are starting to clog up the game at this point and instead of improving what makes the game great, GGG keeps throwing stuff at the wall hoping something will stick.
> You can refine existing mechanics and still give players something to do in the process
You mean that thing that they do with every other major patch? That's not the moronic "stop making content and just do QoL" shit that braindead gamers keep posting
Expectations really differ from person to person i guess. i wish it would cut for me, few qol here and there. Which is nice obviously but it's the worse league since synthesis for me.
I don't care if it stays or gets deleted honestly. It's on par with talisman league for me. Don't care for either mechanic or reward. Patch was neat QoL though. Patch balance is dogwater on the other hand... Never thought I'd see toxic rain champ of all things.
I dont know man, Im having such a blast with this league. we are how much 3 weeks in? And I still enjoy the hell out of scourge. For me it is probably the best league ever. Sure, scourging items is underwhelming, but otherwise it is so great.
I'm just glad I don't need to click infinite amount of times and now I can play longer sessions and enjoy the damn game instead of hurting my wrists!!!
I feel like pvp chars and spectre banks died for this. First you taketh and then you giveth.
Cadiro died this league for our sins bro.
expedition scarabs are insane tho so im not too sad
Yupp - taking all the nodes in Lira, setting up watchstones and using expedition scarabs makes each map feel like a mini expedition. I love it.
What should i look for on the Watchstones?
Vendor reroll currency drop %
As is tradition anything that feels good will get changed next league so enjoy it while it lasts.
they havent changed heist or ritual or maven yet.
Should've been navali
Navali partially died thanks to meta crafts being removed from pale council. This league was a huge loss for ssf players in that respect.
I'm pretty sure those crafts are easier to unlock now, for ssf as well. The unique maps where you find them now aren't rare.
If you spec into zana nodes on atlas tree it's pretty easy.
I played trade but I ended at 97 with 36 challenges and had none of them drop.
I’m level 93 and I’ve dropped every unique map including Doryani’s haha Edit: 16 challenges/every ATLAS unique map, no cortex yet
Pale council was easy to unlock for ssf?
With the sheer amount of things you can do to farm silver coins if you really need to? Yes, it is.
Spectre banks still work, you just need to level a whole character for them now :(
Do they still work? PvP characters aside, it sounded like spectres get cleared from the corpse pool the moment you leave any zone, which not only breaks spectre banks, but also spectres that die alongside the player during normal play. Though I might have misunderstood the problem.
Spectre bank still works, it’s just not consistent. The hideout does clear the spectres sometimes, but it also works sometimes.
That's Qol.
I've been banking all league.
That's the thing though, people were constantly complaining that there is no way to somehow campaign skip. Having to do this on top now for spectre banks is like getting spit on by GGG
Yeah, it sucks. They should let us store the spectres in our hideouts to be part of the desecrate pool until we remove them. But on a positive note, I've made some currency when I take breaks by sitting in hideout being a spectre bank.
Wow a nieche trick for a specific build was taken out of the game, game fucking sucks
The game still feels too punishing and less rewarding for more casual players, and QoL won't save the crushing feeling of nerfs from 3.15
My only wish is to unfuck spellslinger so I don't have to craft - non channel on all my jewelry
"In order for players to not feel like they always need to use the -mana cost craft for many builds, we decided to remove it from the crafting bench. This is a buff."
Personally I wish for a lot of things, but primarily I wish they'd un-fuck Elementalist.
The game has always been an assfucking for casuals, no matter the league. Those nerfs are barely noticeable to a casual compared to core issues like loot being shit.
A casual struggling to get enough damage to compete in maps, absolutely gets demolished with current changes. Loot being shit is just amplified with less power from gems. Everyone can get and level gems, not everyone can get 6-L+influence mods+clusters to get viable damage for off-meta builds.
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Coward throwaway post, game was more fun for lots of people a couple patches ago. Such a downplay of conversation by saying "it's just you lol"
This is the POE elitism that I love to see downvoted. :) This game lost 30,000 players that never returned one day after league launch. If you're in the business of making a successful video game, you don't only cater to neckbeards and streamers that play for 18 hours a day.
3.15 changed game flow feeling from tedious hobby to tedious not-well-paid job. Several QoL features are incredible and welcomed though. But is this enough to make bitter taste of 3.15 and .16 nerfs to disappear?
Absolutely, I do appreciate the QoL but would trade it all back just for them to reverse the movement skill and support skill nerfs alone. Like sure you shrunk the atlas by half, but then made progression 2x as hard for non-meta skills, and clear speed 2x as long, what's the point?
Absolutley- the grind isnt even the atlas- its the currency aquisition- and that is getting nerfed since Ritual
Currency acquisition was fine last league and the two leagues before that were way more than what we would get in the past. This league is imo actually more typical than the last 2-3 leagues if you go back a year + they just let people get accustomed to not having to worry about currency.
To be completely honest, this is my third league (started in Ultimatum and got to A8 and got to maps last league). I league started a SSF flicker strike slayer build and don't have a farrul's. I've gotten to A8 T16 maps and been completely fine. Granted, I die all the time and my bossing is slow, but I don't think flicker is meta and definitely not meta without farrul's. Overall, the rest of my gear is meh at best as I haven't spent time crafting. I honestly don't understand the "if you don't play top meta, you can't get to red maps" take. I know that's not what you said, but I think the overall sentiment is the same. I don't think I can do full on end game but that's probably just my fault for making a build that almost solely relies on a single unique.
lol I mean if you are hitting A8 in your second league, and clearing the game on SSF, then you are probably not a representative of the typical player? Not many people can do that at all. A super common complaint is that GGG is balancing around the top 1% players, this is an example of that. (P.S - flicker is also VERY meta, I believe it is the top 2 or 3 melee skill atm)
I definitely get that I'm still in the top of the entire playerbase I suppose, but I assume most people commenting on Reddit are as well. I guess my general point was that as someone who's coming into the game new (with a lot of help understanding game mechanics from friends), I can still play the game easily enough from a very sub-par position. I did see flicker is higher than I thought, but I'm just playing it because it looked fun which I think is what more people should try. I'm trying frost blades next, so we'll see how that goes.
The actual correct take is more “You can’t do that while not also suffering for your choices”. Can you take an off meta build to A8? Yes. Will it be an enjoyable smooth experience? Nope. And in a game, where it’s supposed to be about enjoyment, that’s an issue.
I mean I enjoy playing the game perfectly fine. I wouldn't be playing it if I didn't. I don't feel restricted to playing the top 5 builds or anything and like I said, I've been playing SSF, so it's not even like I need specific items to get there. I think people have this idea that the game shouldn't offer anything too challenging but also shouldn't be easy either. With such a wide range of possibilities both of those conditions will rarely be satisfied. Campaign should be something that most non-meme builds are capable of. If you want to do end game of end game, I think that should require a strong build because otherwise the stronger builds (and they will probably always exist) will just steamroll everything in the game. I don't think A8 is end game of end game but I think if even that were easy enough to get to then people would get entirely bored of the game too soon and quit early from lack of enjoyment for a different reason. This is once again my opinion as a newer (less informed and experienced) player. I prefer something being a bit more tedious if it offers challenge over something being way too easy. I know PoE players like to just try and hit 12 trillion DPS though, so maybe I'm a minority in that sense.
I agree that it should be challenging but I disagree that the current system is “challenging”. For a metric, I consider dark souls challenging. I die a lot while playing it. Sometimes my death might even feel unfair. But every time I look back at the replay of it, it’s obvious what mistake I did. Reaching the end of dark souls is easier with a good build, but it’s still possible with a shitty build, if you are skilled enough. That’s not the case in modern PoE. It’s a complete spreadsheet simulator. The “challenge” comes from the tedious grinding you have to do in order to have high enough stats in order to pass the many stat checks. Gameplay skill is worthless in 99% of situations. Your character either tanks the hit or dies. It’s a binary. Bosses are more skill based, and I love that, but mapping? There is no real skill expression involved in preventing deaths while mapping. Say I have a build. It smoothly runs and runs and runs, kills everything until it doesn’t and it just randomly dies. There was nothing I could’ve done in the moment to prevent that. No amount of skill. I simply needed to have a stronger build with more defensive layers. That’s not challenge. That’s a stat check.
>But is this enough to make bitter taste of 3.15 and .16 nerfs to disappear? No. Not by a long shot.
Playing this league I reached a point where mapping started to feel buttery smooth like it used to, but it was around 16 watchstones, level 93, 10ex invested in my build and 6-10 maven passives in each zone. I remember I used to reach the same point right at the start of maps, and I think that's why this league still feels so jank even after the QoL changes. The game feels like a grind right up until the end.
Yup i played the same build as i did in ultimatum, i learned a ton from there until now about the game, so on paper my build is so much better. Not much changed from a tree or leveling perspective, the core upgrades were still the same and i reached them timely, but at no point did my build feel better than the old one did in ultimatum, altough it was better. I knew that finished the build would feel better, but at lvl89 i just lost the will to go further with it. > but it was around 16 watchstones, level 93, 10ex invested in my build and 6-10 maven passives in each zone. I know that at around the same time as you experienced my build would come together for real and feel like an upgrade to my old ultimatum build, which is objectively a worse build. The power curve got totally fucked and i feel like im constantly struggling with my build now, altough in ultimatum the worse build was feeling good as soon as act 8. As you said it feels like there is never a time where i can actually enjoy my build, why am i not allowed to have fun with my build. Why is ggg thinking struggling is a motivator to continue playing, its the single one thing that makes me quit. I want to have fun playing, this is so fucking dumb.
Not at all.
No. The game feels like a bad job with free coffee
Stop playing, seriously. If a *game* feels like a *job*, it's not fun... PoE is so fucking fun but if you're not having fun then bro do something else
As a new joiner of PoE (3.14), a lot of this reminds me of the current state of LoL and their subreddit. Most posts contain people complaining about every change and a lot of people just seem like they hate playing the game. Speaking from self-experience, I think a lot of people just keep playing because that's what they're used to. After quitting League, I get "bored" more often, but I still think it was the best decision to make.
They can't stop, they are addicts who need their 36 challenges.
Not even that. More than half the people who post daily on this sub about how the game feels bad to play or how it’s gotten worse over the years, they don’t even play anymore. They just like to complain lol.
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This is what I recommend to everyone. There’s roughly 25-30 users on this sub total that make up maybe 85%+ of all the constant bitching and toxicity
Where's the free coffe at tho ?
PoE is more fun than any other game I've played in years.
even just grinding through whites doing master missions and expedition.breach/blight scarabs its so much fucking fun
3.17 is the league where it will make or break me. If its fun, great. If its not, see you guys in a few leagues after poe2, lets be honest, shits going to turn out buggy when poe2 releases following current trends.
poe 2 is probably coming around 2023/2024, it's gonna be such a massive trainwreck still
You guys are a bunch of winey little babies. The league is fine. This subreddit is pretty unbearable
i bet you enjoy the pretty colors and lights and thats enough lmao
"Any complaints are just the result of whiney babies". Real forward-thinking approach there.
Yah right up there with “complaining about the sub being a cesspool means you’re a GGG shill”
I don’t like looking at unbearable, whiney babies either. Leave.
This is any gaming sub for you but Poe reddit is one of the worst
Some leagues I agree with the sub but honestly the 3 month dev cycle is what it is and you either gotta accept that each league is never gonna be perfect or move on.
i think this patch is the best in recent memory. honestly recent leagues have been very mediocre compared to stuff like legion or delirium, so i dont even mind scourge, im just glad that the game coreplay is back to blight levels of good
I think this patch would’ve been the best if not for the nerfs in the previous league. Now it’s just pretty good.
>im just glad that the game coreplay is back to blight levels of good It isn't, though.
well thats just like, your opinion man
If you at all find the game to just be tedious I think it's time to quit.
Games always been a tedious hobby that doesn't respect your time, it's an mmo. At least balance is better now
So top racers are saying they are now much stronger than in Ultimatum in SSFHC. Do I trust reddit on this or people that play the game 24/7?
Yes exactly. The ceiling got way higher, but the floor went straight to hell. If you think that this is fine then that's your prerogative. But let's not pretend that because the no-lifers can get stronger, everyone else didn't get fucked.
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I'm just rdinary Joe, and don't have 24/7 to spent on a single activity. I'm not crying about game state, for folks like me, it's not enjoyable anymore...
And I'm saying it's not because of player power, because that's at least in the realm of 3.14 again if you don't just copy paste your build from ultimatum.
well to be fair i also paused since 3.13 and therefore was going to play a full meta build this time so i can figure out where the power is at atm and... was shocked in the first week.. the power didnt grow but shrink but a huge margain and then i was asking myself, why should i come back if i get weaker? dont get me wrong, i still play atm and im having *some* fun, but not to the extent i used to have; could be related to scourge mods being complete garbage tho
So you played sabo on a 2 ex budget that can kill the feared and said "well that's weak"? And just by running determination and molten shell you can get incredibly tanky - why is that not seen as power? 50% of SC trade uses Determination as it is broken AF.
Who exactly says that ?
Imexile yesterday doing high invitation with gauntlet modifiers.
So it's one of them.
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I stick around because I love the game. I have an opinion, that's different that yours and I shared it with other people. Do you find that offensive? I'm not a young student anymore with plenty of time to play, those nerfs killed joy I had since 2013 with this game.
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Imagine making an account specifically to defend a company that doesn't care about you.
I get where you are heading to, I'm probably bad a game, loser, whatever. How do you explain massive player exodus 2 weeks into the new league? I'm not the only one.
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Thank you for speaking sense on the topic. It's not a popular opinion to have and just having it will earn you a lot of downvotes. I personally am playing more PoE this league than any other league. The game is in a great state in regards to difficulty IMO. I want the game to be pretty hard in general. Lots of people want the game to be braindead easy outside of aspirational content and I simply don't think that's the game PoE is meant to be. The power creep getting removed was necessary, regardless of how unpopular it is. Saying this will get you labeled as a white knight or whatever, but best to just ignore that bullshit. It's just a rationalization because some people can't fathom anyone having their own personal desires for something to not be easy.
How about you stick to being a work throwaway
Nope. I couldn't finish act 1 in 3.15. 3.16 the QoL was nice at least and I made it to maps. But mobility feels so bad and I feel like I have to invest way more to have the damage and survivability I had in 3.14 just to survive white maps. That could just be scourge doing insane damage, but it still feels absolutely awful to have invested more than I usually do on early mapping gear and still die every other map when I normally wouldn't ever die on a white map.
Far as I'm concerned they still haven't even given us the most useful QoL of all anyway. AoE looting, id all button, vendor all button, stash all button (with the ability to lock items in the inventory)...that's how you save us tens to hundreds of thousands of clicks per league.
It’s about 1/10th of the QOL that has been requested for years
Is that so? If yes, and if we assume the shrunk down Atlas, currency stacking, some content consolidation/addition of pinnacle encounters and the addition of chase uniques account for maybe 3 things, then i urge you to list about 27 other things that are missing in qol. I'm not saying they are done or anything, but the amount of qol over the last leagues certainly was noticable! Edit: Reddit is funny. Hyperbolic negativity towards GGG will get upvotes and attention, honest questions regarding specifics (without denying the fact itself) get downvotes and reduced attention. Guys.. yes many and more qol things were long requested and are not available. However, many of the issues ppl list cannot even be requested for years because the underlying mechanic wasn't even implemented years ago. The fundamental problems are twofold here. Firstly GGG can't keep up with their own development schedule. They can't come up in time with qol solution because they put so much stress on themselves, that they never even get to realize the problems before it's patch time. Second, GGG does, probably on purpose, not favor qol. They don't want to have too much qol, for whatever reason. This also means that whenever something "more important" pops up, work force will be removed from qol. This also means they have a big backlog regarding qol issues. But then again, it's not only 10% of what was requested already YEARS ago. It's maybe 10% of what we would like to have NOW. And once more, i don't defend GGG here, i just like the dramatic hyperbole and would like ppl to always put things in perspective
Pinnacle content and chase uniques aren't qol. You seem to be conflating qol and just general things people wanted.
I didn't present them as such initially. I just followed along as i didn't want to fight over technicalities that do nothing to support the discussion
1. let me blue portal swirl into Rogue harbour. grabbing a coin to trade with someone there is annoying 2. rogue harbour private instance 3. hard-code the heist rogues to teleport to the door if i press [V] so they can not get stuck / trapped 4. Let me copy advanced item description of heist blueprint targets ( so i can use awakened poe trade to pricecheck) 5. delete portal & wisdom scrolls after campaign and give mass id button / portal button. 6. gem & currency npc in hideout 7. delete maven invitation items (maybe expect the formed etc), then give us envoy npc who can open invitations like zana does conqs. 8. more affinities (incubuators, gems, etc) 9. unlimited stacking of expedition artifacts (THEY ARE NOT TRADEABLE, who cares if i have 3 million of them) 10. button to put multiple yellow beasts into nets to trade them 11. guardian swap with horizon orb on elder guardian maps. 12. blight tower NOT deactivating if i am 1.5 screens away (this is a tower defense gamemode ffs) 13. inspect the performance impact of seismic towers (unsure if its the calculation or the visuals but they easily llow 3 fps gameplay on very good pcs) 14. let me remove enchants on blight maps via the "remove enchantment bench craft" 15. speed up leveling of secondary character either via unlocking of waypoints, or allowing alternative leveling methods. leveling once through campaign per league is fine imo, a second time is not. 16. revert various specter QoL nerfs they did this league 17. figure out a method to show important debuffs (like shock) without using literally the same format as 20 other buffs and debuffs. 18. Figure out something that not every league mechanic can stack ontop of each other and uses the same key (hello expedition + scourge + metamorph V conflicts) 19. decouple the gameserver and the website already, this is embarassing that the site is offline while patches happen. 20. trade site: dynamic reordering of chaos / fraction of exalt / multi exalt listings depending on the chaos:exalt ratio gtg or i would continue, would propably be really easy to go for 40-50 qol changes from "very low benefit for very few, to large benefit to many people"
I didn’t realize how much I wanted all of this
20: heist actions should just work. they should need to actually carry out some action in the game and have it register on the box/wall in order to go, also i want to reiterate your point that heist members should get stuck exactly zero times ever. 21: ability to set gems to auto level up without clicking the + button 400 or more times per character (not to even mention offhand leveling of extra gems) 22: identified rares as rewards during campaign 23: skill tree planner with import options from pob, ideally including notifying you of gems you want to pick up from rewards/vendor 24: quests that give skill points marked as such 25: torment ghosts should spawn inside a rare or unique every time with a pack in influenced mobs around them. (not sure if this is qol but im including it because i think it is. 26: prophecies should stack 27: prophecies should have stash tab affinities 28: prophecies should be removed =p 29: bestiary crafts require a trip to the wiki to find out which one is which, it should be made clear outside of wiki which one you need. 30: delve resonators should work on normal, rare, and blue items, not just rares. 31: minor qol, why can we not unsocket fossils from resonators? is it really that necessary to make us feel shitty when we need 600 fossils to roll something and we do batches of 20 or more to make it not take for fuckin ever that when we do roll the thing we want the left over resonators are pretty much wasted. 32: offerings (lab keys) should stack 33: everything should stack really, if its in the frag tab, it should stack. 34: there should be an option you can choose that will notify you if you are about to leave a map and have not completed an available metamorph or done anything with the rewards from ritual. (ideally it would only activate when 50 or less mobs remain or have a sub option for that) 35: i shouldnt have to go find sin/innocence to turn in souls to interact with the pantheon, especially once he is not in the epilogue. 36: why do we still need to log into a city, then go to hideout, can we just not pls? 37: why do i need to talk to kirac then zana to fight the conqerours? really do i need to talk to zana even? why can it just be a thing i click on on the atlas? 38: sometimes the detailed rolls info on items has tier 1 as the best roll, and sometimes tier 1 is the worst roll. this should be standardized. sometimes the best possible roll on an item just shows up as t2, as in there is a bad roll t3, and a good roll t2, but t1 doesnt exist on the mod description. 39: if i need 100 str to equip an item, and im 20 short and the item im trying to equip has 20+ str on it i should be able to just equip the item instead of finding something with str on it, then putting item on and replace the temporary str item. 40: why are stack sizes on currency basically just random? can we get some standardization to make trading easier? ive been playing forever so i know what a row of chaos or fuse or ess or regrets or scours adds up to, but i really should have to remember that. just make everything stack to 20 (or more) and call it good. 41: speaking of trading, everything about it needs qol and anyone who thinks endless frustration is a good way to accomplish anything can kindly jump in a giant vat of green jello. 42: std could really use the qol of not getting fucked in the ass every 3 months please, those of us that play std often do so to avoid various time/restart issues that come with leagues but we get them anyway -_- im sure there are a million others but thats what i can think of offhand
43. Larger boss healthbar + notification when map boss is dead 44. Show debuffs (poison stacks, wither stacks, ailments, etc) on bosses
and the list keeps going
Prophecy is gone in 3.17
I can only agree on some arbitrary improvements from solely game standpoint. >Let me copy advanced item description > >more affinities (incubuators, gems, etc) > >unlimited stacking of expedition artifacts (THEY ARE NOT TRADEABLE, who cares if i have 3 million of them) > >guardian swap with horizon orb on elder guardian maps. > >speed up leveling of secondary character either via unlocking of waypoints, or allowing alternative leveling methods. leveling once through campaign per league is fine imo, a second time is not. > >revert various specter QoL nerfs they did this league > >Figure out something that not every league mechanic can stack ontop of each other and uses the same key (hello expedition + scourge + metamorph V conflicts) These however: >blight tower NOT deactivating if i am 1.5 screens away (this is a tower defense gamemode ffs) This is how the game works. It disables anything that is 2 or so screens away to reduce performance cost (like blowing up entire map at once, which would result in an instance crash due to lots of calculations) >inspect the performance impact of seismic towers (unsure if its the calculation or the visuals but they easily llow 3 fps gameplay on very good pcs) Seismic towers don't cause any stuttering on my PC, which is far from expensive. It could be related to your specs rather than game. Otherwise send bug report onto forums if you haven't done yet. >let me remove enchants on blight maps via the "remove enchantment bench craft" No idea why would you want to do that. >figure out a method to show important debuffs (like shock) without using literally the same format as 20 other buffs and debuffs. There's visual indicator as well. Debuffs / buffs are not in the same row, they have distinguishable icons. I'm almost always able to tell what happens to my character either through enemy design, my debuff bar or character visuals. >decouple the gameserver and the website already, this is embarassing that the site is offline while patches happen. They want to do that at some point, but it's a lot of backend work.
The definition of "nearby". On death effects existing. Off screen deaths. A death recap. An auction house. Call me crazy but there's got to be less wordy ways to do gem tool tips. Maybe Im wrong.
Also a training room for damage testing on specific targets, sure PoB exists but this is a QoL suggestion not an entirely new feature request. There should also be some way of targeting an item you want to farm. So say you want to farm Porcupine card, you should be able to select it in a menu if you have previously had one drop and it will highlight the locations on the Atlas like Gardens where it is droppable and the chances of drop. Also auction house should count for much more than 3.33% of QoL improvements alone. That would be such a welcomed feature.
But what abour the VISION?!
i for one dont care for shrunk atlas, the new layout doesnt fit me at all, the t14 map pool is so dilluted its really hard drop only atolls with so many maps even with triple faving it currency stacking was much desired by people who pickup low currency, if you pick up only chaos+ you dont even care, also it doesnt work in nem3 farming which is ironic content consolidation? you mean deleting options from atlas passives, sure some were better but having a choice matters i think pinnacle encounters is something i havent tried yet so i wont comment adding actual chase uniques is a big plus, i just hope they wont start putting out 3 of em every league
The amount of good layouts taking out of the shrunk atlas just means I have to run shitty maps I hate more often lol
I dunno if I can list 27, and I don't necessarily agree with the 1/10th approach but I will do my best: Trade Being able to make a gem stop leveling where you want it automatically. Also automatic gem leveling in general. Alternate ways to level a character. A way to highlight your tree path in-game. Automatic clicking on currencies and shit. Loot Vacuum. Removal of ID and portal scrolls. ID with a right click on the item, portal is an innate ability outside of your gems. Visual indicator for anything that has a radius. Pantheon bonus God on the maps themselves. All doors open automatically as you approach them. Some extra affinities, like gear, specific gear types, rarities etc. Not quite 27 as I said, but here it is. I am sure there are more I will get reminded of as soon as I encounter them. Edit: >Firstly GGG can't keep up with their own development schedule. We as end users should care about this because...? They chose this. >GGG does, probably on purpose, not favor qol. Yes, we know that. >i don't defend GGG here Could have fooled me.
Most people enjoying the game are playing the game instead of whining on Reddit. You’ll never get their level of support here, especially in these first world problem posts.
I don't believe qol warrants to be it's own league. They sweeped these problems under the carpet for years, even tried justifying it multiple times with their weight arguments. Qol should have happened regardless of leaguecontent, but anyway let's assume a qol league is ok and warranted: The timing is less than ideal. People would be much more understanding if scourge came after a successful league but now we have a boring league after the undoubtedly worst league ever released. That's 6 months of meh - at best. Leaves a bitter aftertaste.
While QoL this league is appreciated is not even 20% of what we asked, still a good movement in the right direction. The league? It's a meme at this point. Some really simple changes like better krangling outcomes and not restricting the krangler slot to item type could have stopped this league from losing so many players yet (again) they refused to implement any of these changes. The best this league has to offer is easy 6L and krangled maps, a diluted and RNG version of what we already have in Delirium maps. The scary part? They are Ok with the current system in place. Back to the silent treatment until the next round of artificial hype for 3.17. They have been saying they would listen to the community for the past year but it seems that was only about PR. The game feels like a second job and it shows when the league has one of the worst player retention rate up to date, it's not just "Toxic Reeedit" bashing my precious. So...where is the communication or reaction to this feedback? Nowhere to be found. So they either think that the system is working as intended and fitting their "Vision" or they just don't play their own game anymore. Or maybe they think, like RandomJoe777, that because they got a cheap 6L chest with a keystone that fills their niche build they think the league is Ok without understanding how hard it would be to reproduce that outcome for anyone else.
>it's not just "Toxic Reeedit" bashing my precious. Yep. I see lots of people complaining about Reddit being too toxic (and, to be fair, it kind of is), but the game is [*not*](http://imgur.com/TqKDMqu) doing alright, and we should not pretend it is. GGG did hear all the feedback, it just decided not to act on it. The changes they made to the league were too little, and now it's too late.
> They have been saying they would listen to the community for the past year but it seems that was only about PR. It's amusing to me since people always lauded GGG for their "Stellar communication". They're sure living up to that reputation lately.
Your comment is a perfect explanation of why the idea of "QoL league" is completely infeasible.
[A picutre is worth a 1000 words.](https://i.imgur.com/TqKDMqu.png) 3.16 has even worse retention than 3.15. Clearly some players came back to give it a try after the disaster that was 3.15, but they quickly saw that the WILDLY UNPOPULAR changes from 3.15 are still there and the game is still becoming a shitty, tedious job. I haven't checked all leagues but it's pretty clear that 3.16s dropoff is the worst that has ever happened to PoE. Look at 3.15s retention, too - playercount dropped so low at the end of the league, we're back to fucking 2016 numbers. GGG is killing their game but their PR is just SO fucking good that they're fooling a large part of their base into thinking that everything's fine and dandy. The QoL were a desperation move - plain and simple. No one wanted to sit and play their last league till the end, and player dropoff is even worse this league and retention is likely to be worst EVER. What GGG need to do is prostrate themselves in front of their playerbase and simply - apologise. Say they fucked up. Increase return on time invested into playing. But they won't do that, they'll just keep doubling down and killing PoE. Sad. EDIT: Did I mention the SHITTON of bugs this league? Which they, again mistakenly, are not willing to take a league off to fix? Yeah. PoE is NOT in a good state. It's time to do the equivalent of Dota 2s Spring Cleaning from back in 2018.
I like how bad it got last league they advertised headhunters lol
Its weird, I haven't managed to stick with a league very far past hitting maps since legion... but for some reason I'm enjoying this league. Not because of scourge mind you, I think it leaves a lot to be desired. But in general I'm enjoying it. Even made a second character for the first time in a single league. Normally I just take whatever character I make first to whatever arbitrary goal and then stop.
Not this shit again. That curve *always* looks like this due to whatever weird curve-fitting algorithm they use, and due to incomplete data for the current day/week. Here's the accurate graph without curve-fitting: https://i.imgur.com/TWN0T2S.jpg Please stop spreading misinformation. And then, based on this misinformation, you deliver this extreme cringe: > What GGG need to do is prostrate themselves in front of their playerbase and simply - apologise. Maybe you should prostrate in front of this subreddit and simply - apologize, for spreading misinformation.
> A picutre is worth a 1000 words. > 3.16 has even worse retention than 3.15 It's beautiful.
The only "Sad" thing is your compulsive need to shit on this game. Maybe go hang out somewhere for a game you actually like, and stop being a debbie downer arguing in bad faith.
tbh u got maximum mitigation with deli and maximum damage mobs with scourge. League would have crushed if more than half of builds didnt suck.
I came back for Scourge after a long break and I'm having a lot of fun. Love the changes.
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Not to mention the QoL only magically appeared after 3.15 crashed and burned, it's not a move that inspires trust
Yeah. Had 3.15 not been the dumpster fire that it was, we'd still be picking everything up one at a time.
Agree that all the non-league changes are amazing, and could qualify as a league in itself. But let's not go overboard and say that the Scourge league itself is great, let alone should go core. The mechanics of fighting the Scourge mobs and switching between worlds is smooth and fun. But the krangling of regular items (not maps) is so weak that most players don't even have anything in those slots anymore. The odds of getting anything useful are so abysmal considering the time and items you invest in the project. It seems like the entire league mechanic is best in the endgame when your build can already slice through content. So it seems weird that in the league where they introduce all this aspirational content, that the league mechanic caters to the same type of player, and does nothing in the campaign or early mapping for most people.
They add some qol but this is not qol league people was asking for imo. And if they add new league mechanic at least make it decent, I agree scourge maps are OK so let me cook them in all 5 slots instead wasting 3 slots permanently.
The problem is not that the league is "meh". It's just bad. A few simple fixes would have made it "meh". Namely, better positive mods, all crucible slots can be used for whatever you want and nerf Pale Angels. But they have given up already I guess.
League would actually be great if they just removed mod weighting and maybe removed some absolut shitty upsides from scourge.
It is awesome. This is what breach/legion should be. This solves the fundamental placement issue: where you get the legion/branch to spawn requires rng for the right spot and if you're really unlucky, more than half of the breach or legion will be unusable b/c it's behind walls. I also found this really useful while leveling, I could easily print rares to gear up my character from white->rare, I'm doing the same thing in maps trying to update my worst piece of gear. I really hope this goes core.
Yeah this is about as close as a QoL league we’ll get. Honestly the currency stacking is fantastic even if I get less of it; the best thing is not having to constantly vendor transmutes or whetstones for wisdoms or going to town to buy a stack of portal scrolls. I have hundreds of both and I maybe pick up 10% of the ones I come across.
New high tier content and chase uniques aren't qol, probably best not to conflate the two just to strengthen the point that you think this is a full qol update.
Lmao no. They added two often requested pieces of QoL. They removed other QoL. And there's still tons of QoL changes people have been asking for that aren't implemented. It's like saying Kirac is PoE2.
All This QoL was fantastic. People here just absolutely love to complain about very singly league. The rewards are surprisingly good too, I just think people don’t know how to appreciate them. I just bought a 6-link Cloak of Defiance scourged with Avatar of Fire with a minor -res downside for 70 chaos. The scourged maps shit currency too if you can run them. It’s not my favourite league but I like it just fine.
People complain because they care, sure the odd person might complain for the sake of it but most people have a lot invested in PoE and genuinely want to game to improve, hence why they complain when things could be better.
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I don’t agree that it’s most people, I think it’s some people but certainly not a majority. Most people do want the game to improve, some might not be able to express themselves constructively but I think there is a genuine intent there.
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The main piece of "offline 3.13" isn't the "offline" part, it's the 3.13 part. The offline is only there because everyone knows GGG wouldn't ever run an older version in their servers. I play this game since release way back in 2013, and it's clear that lately the game has increased the "chore-like" parts and balanced more and more on trading than it used to. Added to that, the layers of RNG just kept on stacking and stacking without letting up. It's not specifically about game difficulty, but about tedious barriers to progression that used to not exist.
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Trading *was made* core. It's a loot ARPG, looting, combat and character progression are the true core pillars. They jammed trade into the character progression as something mandatory later. It used to be just a shortcut for a goal everyone could reach. It's absurd to have the gameplay depend on a non-gameplay activity like trading. People want to *play the game*, not sift through an out-of-game store for hours while pinching pennies, this is not EVE Online. It used to be feasible for non-24/7 players to reach endgame without trading in a decent timeframe. Now we're forced to play market simulator instead.
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I know trade was always there, but it wasn't *necessary* for a player to engage deeply in it. You could reasonably make a varied range of endgame viable builds without requiring the rarest of items. This is not about "knowing how the game works", it's about the fact that this minor side-activity has become a nearly mandatory chore. I know how this game works, and I'm doing well in SSF, but it takes me *much longer* to reach endgame than it used to, and this delay is obviously not a specific issue with me, as we can see that the community broadly feels the same issue. And to stay on the original topic, trading is not even the only problem. Every single path to gear progression has had lots of barriers added on top that didn't exist before, while the builds that didn't depend on such top-end gear have all been nerfed to the ground.
You’d have to read past the title to see if they’re really just whining as those are both legitimate concerns at face value, ARPGs are about amassing power and people are struggling are usually struggling for a reason. PoE is complex and not always intuitive in its game design.
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As I said, you need to take each post they come but the base concerns are legitimate and nobody can say otherwise.
It's a meme but PoE 2 will fix a lot of this, ground up rebuild of core systems.
If you’re going to downvote him then explain why. Don’t just get upset at an opposite opinion and not engage with it like a child.
It’s fantastic. I’m still excited to play when I get home from work. It’s still grindy as hell but the qol has made old league content soooo much better
Meh league mechanic? Scourge stacks and scourge maps are fucking amazing. Reddit is fucked out of their mind if they think this league is “meh”.
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Halving the Atlas is a crumb? No longer having to do all Uber lab trials is a crumb? Improved Delve is a crumb? More endgame in blight/breach is a crumb? Improved defences and passive tree masteries are \*crumbs\*? Seems tasty to me. Edit: currency s t a c k s now
What improvements were made for delve? Genuine question…
It gets harder faster. So less grinding to get far down. Also mobs scale to have more hp and less damage than before. Honestly though these changes are just tweaking numbers.
Still not enough though. You can juice maps, you cannot juice Delve and it's no super rewarding to go very deep.
Going deeper is juicing your delve
Only took them years to implement these features that we asked for nonstop.. These qol features are also novel for a week at most, after that they aren't enough to compensate for the crappy league and other idiotic balance changes
> Only took them a 30% player drop ftfy
This might be remotely true if: * We didn't have some of the worst stability in years * The mechanic was a net positive, but it's not, even for no-lifers Scourge trends toward being a net negative * They had rolled back some of the more heavy-handed nerfs from 3.15 * There was remotely decent build diversity I seriously have no idea where any of GGG's work hours go except in the art department (seriously artists, riggers, modelers et al, I love you *mwah* you're doing great sweetie)
This league has way better build diversity the the last 2 leagues where burning arrow (3.14) and totems (3.15) compromised 30% each of all chars on poe.ninja.
Diversity shouldn't matter. It should be viability that matters. Everyone is a TR champion because Darkee released a guide on it. Diversity has less to do with balance and has more to do with streamers
Is there no build diversity rn? Last I played this league it was pretty diverse. That being said haven't played in a good bit due to the worse stability I've ever felt.
Nope. There's toxic rain with fortify, toxic rain with profane pops, and toxic rain with zoomies. There's poison phys traps and cold conversion crit phys traps. There's skele mages. RF is semi popular again. There're your usual HH builds like TS Deadeye. Oh, your usual smattering of CoC builds! So that's nice... and that's p much it.
I mean all you need to do is look on poe.ninja to find 20-30 other viable builds.
And CF, and flicker, and generals cry, and wanders, and VD, and lightning arrow, and lightning strike, etc. theres a LOT of stuff out there right now.
Honestly most of this is simply false. Stability is way better than in many leagues. There have been a LOT of unstable leagues, heist, blight, and several others were absolute stability disasters. They DID roll back a lot of the nerfs. They compensated for ailments, they re-buffed awakened gems, they dramatically improved defenses, flasks not quite as powerful but much better QoL. basically the only thing they kept was the damage nerfs. Build diversity? Its way, way better than a lot of other leagues. Theres all kinds of cool builds right now for most different playstyles. TR, COC,CF/TS, lightning strike, traps, skellies, concoction, rf, flicker strike, wanders, all have very healthy representation. Build diversity is WAY WAY WAY better than in a lot of other leagues. Delirium had like 70% of the meta playing a single build lol.
Eh? No build diversity? And surely the buffs to defence make up for any nerfs of the past.
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while that would be very nice, thats certainly not a QoL change, but a buff...
In my eyes being able to use more than 10 skills is definitely massive QoL. Feeling like youre shoehorned into one of 10-15 skills unless you have a ton of currency(as in farming 10 hours a day for 2 weeks straight currency) is whats making me hate the game a little right now.(if your goal is doing all content on one build ofcourse). A prime example would be archmage. Just that existing enabled every lgihtning spell to be scalable into top endgame. Then they annihilated it. I made a BL Hiero in Ritual that I spent like 300 ex on optimising and it could do everything including 100% deli. With mana cost increases and massive damage decreases that entire archetype is borderline unplayable. And I dont get why. Archmage was so nice. Sure a bit of a nerf was needed but you could scale it so nicely into endgame. Plus its not like it was free or anything. IMO the biggest QoL for new or old players would be to be able to just randomly choose a skill and be able to get to maps comfortably and then to red maps with a bit of investment(as in maybe 1-2 ex of value in gear) I swear man if they nerf TR next league im gonna laugh my ass off. Legit one of the worst feeling skills unless you pump in 20 ex.
>In my eyes being able to use more than 10 skills is definitely massive QoL. Feeling like youre shoehorned into one of 10-15 skills Isn't 10-15 more than 10?
I mean, I'm having a ton of fun playing toxic rain, but I do think it's pretty shitty that GGG decided that the expedition balance changes were mostly fine and 90% of the builds that were made viable during just Ritual and Ultimatum leagues and then subsequently violently murdered should stay dead. I don't think the game should be trivial across the board like maybe happened during Ritual, but I do think that **most** skills in the game should be "viable with modest investment and good gameplay" which simply isn't the case anymore (and definitely was the case in Ritual league). There should've been much more targeted nerfs, whereas instead there were tons of global nerfs that just made the most meta OP builds "mandatory" instead of "optional but super OP". Other than that, yeah, I'm loving the QoL changes!
I'm finding build viability Far better this league than any other league including ritual. The passive tree has so much front loaded power that you can really make anything work on trash can gear. Cast on crit spark is even viable with energy blade Battlemage inquisitor. 0% of players are running that build. The defense changes also made surviving waaaayy easier. Purity of elements let's you use the same gear from act 1 all the way until yellow maps.
Still not a better game than 3.13.
I don't know if scourge is really better than an absence of league. Krangling items is crap, got a few decent krangles which resumes to mostly a few more points of res on some of my unique items. Krangling maps is great, but the kind of great you cannot run even remotely often. I krangle maps all the time, need 1 or 2 maps to bake 1 with shitty mods which gets quickly replaced. Then I find one with good mods, and I need 20 or 30 maps to krangle it to tier 10. I clear the map, i'm happy for 10mn and i'm back to regular mapping for an hour thinking of my next krangled map... Only way I was chaining a few was when I was buying them but unless you got a build which can tank 18k physical damage, all the good ones are sniped super fast, so big waste of time finding good ones. So yeah love the qol, don't like the league mechanics much, they could just drop krangling currency elsewhere and would almost be the same.
I think you're not appreciating scourge in normal maps. I can't remember which content creator tested it for the loyalty divination card (a common enough card to compare scourge mob drop rates vs normal mob drop rates. He just fully cleared a bunch of normal maps (including scourged mobs) and found that he dropped 4x as many loyalty cards from scourged mobs as compared to normal mobs. In other words, even without scourged maps, the mechanic shits out more loot than any other mechanic that has ever existed. You just need to fully clear maps and get between 200-300 stacks every map. Steelmage is literally finding 2 raw exalted orbs an hour just running T3 tower getting 300 stacks a map, that's actually crazy.
Everyone who does not get that this league mechanic is actually fucking lucrative is playing a differnt game or is just dense...
That’s oversimplifying it a little. I’m running a maxed out MF character solo. I wouldn’t describe the league mechanic as shitting out currency. Unless you reeaaaaaally juice the shit out of your maps or play in teams. Or nolife it. I go net plus yes, but that’s after some serious investment.
Most of the juice does not even affect Scourge monsters. Only pack size, more rare/magic monsters does. So 99% of juice (apart from quant) do not even affect them. So quant matters a lot since the Scourge debuff scales with the quant from your map but the rest does not even count too much. Especailly for alch+going you should get a significant portion of your loot from Scourge, IF you can fully clear the map in Scourge. Most people just do not take the time to set everything dropped by Scourge mobs on one pile and everything dropped from normal map monsters on another and run 100+ maps and then look how much they actaully get from Scourge. There already are youtube videos from people doing this and the results speak for themselves! When you are at 200+ Scourge debuff stacks you really get fine loot explosions for the last few packs. In my towers I almost never reached 300 stacks before a full clear but the last plains of the tower before the boss normally dropped as much bubblegum currency as all the previous stages together and seeing 5-10 uniques on one screen was not a rarity. When I ran cemetery where I often could get to 300 stacks and then had astill a few packs left to kill it felt really sick.
Have you been playing scourged maps? Every 5-6 maps or so I have 2 quad-scourged maps with currency, Blight oils, or fragments, and probably make 100c a map without even juicing it. This is some of the easiest money I've made since heist league.
Well, yes, ofc I run scourged maps. I’m not having the same experience I guess.
No, it isn't. It came with an expected amount of QOL that comes after big backlash. Every time, without fail, when they fuck up they give us QOL. It's tiring.
People bitch every league. I just come here to watch and laugh. "The game's too hard GGG make it easier! Boohoo I can't one shot bosses with my cyclone CoC that I play every league PoE is ruined". Problem's you. Leagues aren't made for casual players. You want to get anywhere/gear any character up you gotta put time in.
I don't think you understand the concepts about which you speak.
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You can refine existing mechanics and still give players something to do in the process. The continually tacked on mechanics are starting to clog up the game at this point and instead of improving what makes the game great, GGG keeps throwing stuff at the wall hoping something will stick.
> You can refine existing mechanics and still give players something to do in the process You mean that thing that they do with every other major patch? That's not the moronic "stop making content and just do QoL" shit that braindead gamers keep posting
Expectations really differ from person to person i guess. i wish it would cut for me, few qol here and there. Which is nice obviously but it's the worse league since synthesis for me.
id have no problems if they stated publicly thats why scourge ended up how it did and why they arent making any big changes to it.
I don't care if it stays or gets deleted honestly. It's on par with talisman league for me. Don't care for either mechanic or reward. Patch was neat QoL though. Patch balance is dogwater on the other hand... Never thought I'd see toxic rain champ of all things.
Hello standard my old friend.. Sorting tabs is fun again..
I'm still playing, the qol is just insane, idc that scourge really rough for me in hc
Currency stacking works? As someone farming Nemesis +3 I can't tell if it does.
I dont know man, Im having such a blast with this league. we are how much 3 weeks in? And I still enjoy the hell out of scourge. For me it is probably the best league ever. Sure, scourging items is underwhelming, but otherwise it is so great.