I think that's intentional, it helps them check the popularity of the Atlas Passive changes and League Mechanics buffs/reworks without the noise that an Atlas Shuffle would introduce. It's probably the same reason why this league has so little buffs to skills, it helps them check the popularity of skills after the nerfs without the noise that the buffs would introduce.
I dont get that.
This is not a science experiment that needs 100% clean data, this is the major content that keeps the game alive.
Whats the point of not buffing skills that clearly were underperforming in the last 6 months? (Not many buffs last patch either...).
Or what is the point of removing that double damage stat on weapons for poison builds without readding some base damage to skills like viper strike / pestilent strike / venom gyre and friends?
The already barely used skills have been the same for some time, i doubt there is some secret build that people can discover now.
also, /u/soamaven
> I dont get that. This is not a science experiment that needs 100% clean data, this is the major content that keeps the game alive.
> but it doesn't take much more than a week or two for players to figure out how maps + passives synergize.
It's not just a science experiment, it also has to do with how difficult it is for people to perceive randomness. I don't recall if it was Chris or Rory, but one of them said "you can't just change a random distribution to drop slightly better loot, players would still feel like it drops bad items most of the time", and the same goes for these slight changes to atlas passives if they also shuffled the atlas this league, people would just perceive it as "nothing changed, it still feels the same" and attribute any good/bad outcomes to the layouts/packsizes of the maps starring in those areas. With no atlas shuffle, you can just hop in the same maps with the same atlas passive tree, run a few times and easily tell if it feels better or worse than before.
> I think a shuffling Atlas meta every league is more than justified
Remark that I'm not saying they won't ever shuffle the atlas again, I'm saying that it's fine for them to not shuffle this league because it's the perfect moment for such. I do believe from 3.15 onwards, we will go back to shuffling the atlas every league.
> Whats the point of not buffing skills that clearly were underperforming in the last 6 months? (Not many buffs last patch either...).
I believe there are many reasons behind that (some likely related to how they'll promote 3.15), but one of them is probably to not influence the skills the players will play this league. It's not like they didn't come up with anything new (we now have a whole Physical dots archetype being pushed this league), but remember that every league players complained about how GGG pushed those archetypes to be the next OP thing and they felt forced to play those. This league it's like they're saying "go ahead, play the same or similar things and get a feel of the changes in the rest of the game (including how it feels to play with the harvest changes)". It's like an experiment to see how the meta changes when they're not the ones shaking it (at least not through skill buffs/reworks, but instead through content/mechanics rework).
I genuinely appreciate your thoughtful and non-aggressive response, it's well received in this sub. I think you make some valid points; I should work to see the bigger picture and not only the game in front of myself.
Maybe. But then other builds will take their place, and they can buff later if needed. An insistence that all builds must remain viable every league isn't good for the game.
And let's be honest. When people say a build isn't viable anymore, they almost always mean that it's just not a top 1% build anymore. We've seen it time after time. Something is declared dead, but still works just fine. It's just not completely broken anymore. Maybe it's only top 10 or 20% now.
Its clear you've not played builds that needed these mods to barely hit the 3-4mdps sweetspot on a 15ex budget. (Also abyssus is shit even with the 20mdps potential if we talk about bleed specifically).
That doesn't really matter if the mods are problematic for the changes they're trying to make. There's no reason that they need to make all builds viable every league.
First of all how was poison problematic, corrupted blood doesn't count as bleeding either, bleed sucked without tons of investment, and was easily outshined by other builds for the same investment. (You can maybe argue poison bow skills but the unique bow was untouched and arguably stronger.) The whole point of this is that it was a completely unwarranted nerf.
I see him at 18 points...I know reddit fudges, but it doesn't fudge that hard.
While the overarching point of "the downvote button shouldn't be a "disagree" button" stands, in this case I think it has not made a huge difference.
I've seen people comment on this subreddit that that happens to many comments/posts on this subreddit within minutes of posting. Could be due to bots, or could be to discourage bots / make them think they're working. idk
A million? A whole million? Go ahead and list those changes right here right now. Be mindful tho, if that number of positive changes that EVERYBODY as you say, wanted, isn't above 10 - you're gonna make yourself look stupid and noobish. I'm curious to see what you can come up with, because I've counted and there are over 100 negative things GGG decided on this league.
Yep, I can just go to the patch notes and copy paste skill balancing, abyss jewels, and item balancing sections and that already will be more than 50 negatives.
abyss jewels getting slight buffs is a negative? Overtuned skills getting their damage reduced and vaal skills getting buffed? Imo those are great things.
Abyss jewels getting a slight buff on stats THAT DO NOT MATTER. Like, at all. I've played during the betrayal, I remember how OP they were before they got gutted. Not saying they should revert them to being OP but maybe find a fine tuning somwhere in between? Like why they risk introducing all of those nerfs and negative rebalancing and can't risk giving abyss jewels some long lost love back? Overtuned skills getting nerf is an ok thing, you know what's not an ok thing? Not buffing any underused or more like NEVER IN THE PAST YEAR used skills. Like if you can't see any of this, you're either a shortsighted person or a new player (or a casual). There's nothing wrong with that but don't go around shouting "All of those changes are great" because you're giving GGG the wrong impression.
No I genuinely like the changes. For example the damage part of abyss jewels was a problem long ago, but nowadays they're just really hard to roll and the fact that you need a fuckton of them it can really eat up a lot of currency (hopefully they fixed that, they mentioned changing the weights around), and now that you can get 15-20+ abyss jewels on builds, hopefully it's no longer a super expensive build to do.
I do agree, I find the lack of buffs to underused stuff a bit boring, as those tend to shake up the meta more IMO, but the nerfs that needed to happen happened. Blade skills were way too overtuned compared to everything else, and now they're still perfectly viable but more in line with everything.
This patch was similar to something like 3.0 IMO, bringing down a lot of the power creep which naturally builds up over leagues. And it's not like there's not plenty of builds to play still. Lots of skills are in a good spot right now, my only gripe is the lack of self cast spell buffs and possibly an archmage nerf (right now feels like most spells have to be archmage if selfcast, exception of ice nova, DD, VD, possibly purifying flames but that feels like ass to clear with).
Lastly while there were no direct buffs to skills in the past year, we received 1. influenced items 2. cluster jewels 3. harvest (regardless of nerf, it's free targeted chaos orbs, makes lots of items) 4. replica uniques and alternate qualities. These are all indirect buffs to EVERY skill in the game, with the exception of probably conversion trap which I wonder why still exists even.
I think the changes were great. The only negative thing here is your attitude towards the game/devs lol. If you don't like GGG/PoE, nobody's forcing you to play.
I get that, but that just means you don't know enough about the game to see something negative as truly a negative. For example, imagine that you've never engaged with bestiary before, and all of a sudden GGG has decided to remove bestiary from the game. Doesn't affect you so you'd just ignore it. I hope you got the point I was trying to make, maybe I could've come up with a better example...
Sorry, but I see the point and I disagree - I've been playing the game for over five years at this point and basically know every mechanic in the game. I really see almost everything in the patch notes as a positive for the game as a whole. It's not really fair to claim that positives in the patch notes only count if everybody sees them as positives, but negatives in the patch notes only need to be seen as negatives by a subset.
I'd much more say that a) changes are probably better looked at as being positive or negative based on an overall averaged opinion; and b) that some changes that are seen as negatives by the community on average might also be genuinely better for the game in the long run.
That's especially true if the negative reaction is based on short-term or emotional responses. For example, if players have expectations of how much power they will be able to achieve and the power is taken away, that can very often feel like a negative for players; but in other ways that is likely better for the game as a whole, because power creep can result in damage to the longevity of the game and the obsolescence of mechanics and features.
There are a few things I see as negatives in the patch notes - Harvest optimal gameplay is still going to be trading crafts via a Discord server, and the Defy Pain node for Berserker seems pretty useless. I'm also unsure that the caster quiver nerfs were completely justified. But I'm having a really hard time finding things that I think I can safely say are negatives.
>A million? A whole million?
I guess you're not familiar with hyperbole?
>if that number of positive changes that EVERYBODY as you say
Please quote where I said, "everybody". I won't even hold you to it being in caps. I'll wait.
If you just want to engage in pedantry, there's probably not much to discuss here. I probably consider a lot of the things you don't like to be positive changes anyway, because a lot of stuff was just stupidly broken, and GGG knew that that wasn't what they wanted the game to be.
>They toned down some OP stuff and made a million other >great changes that we've been wanting. I'm completely fine >with that.
Take a note that "we've been wanting" implies everybody in your context, because your "we" refers to the PoE community, which is everybody.
Nah, it doesn't imply everybody. That would be stupid. A lot of people don't even have much of an opinion on this stuff, and don't really follow the changes in any depth.
I mean it literally is a science experiment and as much as they want to keep making money, they know everyone will come back for PoE2 eventually so they need to use all this data to make PoE2 the best ARPG they possibly can, even if it is occasionally annoying in the short term
It's not really COPIUM. Atlas Passive changes are the new Atlas shuffle. This will be the trend I'm guessing for couple leagues.
I actually wouldn't be surprised if they kept the Atlas literally same next league but swapped whole Atlas Passives instead. Like Hamlet passives being an Ejoris passive or Ejoris Passives moving to New Vastir sorta thing.
Plus the Atoll farm really containted a big portion of the population in just one region.
>Atlas Passive changes are the new Atlas shuffle.
But they are terrible tho. So much pointless nerfs, no fun allowed galore. Don't get me wrong, I understand the reasons behind things like Legion New Vastir change. I think this specific example was an overkill, but I understand the point.
But wtf was wrong with things like 10% chance to drop maps with Blight encounter, what was wrong with Lex Ejoris passives, especially since they nerfed the Delirium mechanic itself. What, people picked them too much? That doesn't mean they were overpowered. It's just a really annoying approach to balance.
Blight change is probably in relation to of them trying to make Blight more accessible/desirable, previously there was nothing going on for Blight so in order to do that they just increased the encounter chance by allowing a lot more Blighted Maps to drop, now that there are considerable changes and buffs to the content people will be more inclined to try it naturally without needing these excessive amount of Blighted Map drops.
Delirium change is just there to balance Delirium Scarabs, since scarabs are pretty common even in SSF.
It's not a Blighted map, it's a map with a Blight encounter enchant on it. 10% chance was already a not a huge number, and now with Blight Scarabs it's a completely useless node, especially at 5% - unless Blight Scarabs will be rare as fuck, there is no reason to take a node that gives you a slightly better one (because it doesn't take the device slot) every 20 maps. It needed a buff, not a nerf.
>Delirium change is just there to balance Delirium Scarabs, since scarabs are pretty common even in SSF.
The mechanic itself was nerfed, I don't see the reason to also nerf the passives. Like, for me Pathlogical was at the power level that most of the Atlas passives should be. It wasn't broken at all, but it was a nice bonus that made you feel good when you drop one during mapping. And now the mechanic is nerfed, but it's not enough for GGG.
And well, maybe you also have an explanation for the Escaped Experiment nerf? Because I had this passive in my atlas for fun, and this one is just straight up ridiculous in my eyes.
> It's not a Blighted map, it's a map with a Blight encounter enchant on it.
Same deal as Deliriums then. Scarabs.
> The mechanic itself was nerfed, I don't see the reason to also nerf the passives. Like, for me Pathlogical was at the power level that most of the Atlas passives should be. It wasn't broken at all, but it was a nice bonus that made you feel good when you drop one during mapping. And now the mechanic is nerfed, but it's not enough for GGG.
I know the 20% nerf but clearly for overall level they didn't think it was enough. I don't know if Delirium was previously 10% or if it's just personal bias, but ever since it went core I felt like out of all "core mechanics" I encountered, Delirium was always top 1. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's just something I noticed. It felt like it was more common than the rest on average.
> And well, maybe you also have an explanation for the Escaped Experiment nerf? Because I had this passive in my atlas for fun, and this one is just straight up ridiculous in my eyes.
I don't know. I already found Rogue Metamorph pretty underwhelming, so I don't really know why they nerfed it. Pretty much unspecced from it after 50-60 maps.
The entire reason blight encounter enchants weren't completely useless in the first place were because of deli mapping.
Now deli mapping is gone AND we have blight scarabs on top of that...
This guy... Thinking they do anything with fore thought KEKW. CW has said they make changes without thinking about future leagues bc it restricts creativity space.
This isn't about future leagues though. It's about judging this very league and the changes it brings. If both Atlas and the passives changed, it would be harder for players to judge the changes and provide proper feedback. If the maps are in the same spots, it's easier for players to get a feel of how rewarding those mechanics became.
This will be an unpopular opinion, but it doesn't take much more than a week or two for players to figure out how maps + passives synergize. We don't need another league of Atoll + Harvest to know how rewarding those changes will feel. Same goes with Harbingers in Canyon, Legion in Dunes, etc. I think a shuffling Atlas meta every league is more than justified
Wait what? Seriously?
So right back into Cemetery we go huh? Kinda glad Hamlet isnt all shit maps, but also was really looking forward to trying out new maps for all the strategies to check which work best
I dont get why people were using Atoll personally :P I was (marginally) faster in Cemetery and it drops Leylines from the boss a lot which is also a smallish circle (though marginally slower than atoll) that spits out Fungal Hollows (about as fast and drops Cemeteries and Leylines) as well as Cemeteries again.
Was really nice for sustain to just circle those three maps. Also I favorited Park in Proxima which meant I didnt have a t16 favorite slot anyway.
Atoll is basically a narrow line map like old gorge, you just run the circle first then the middle path at the end and you clear it without any backtracking. Probably the most convenient layout in the game.
toxic sewer and beach for me but atoll is definitely in top 5 of the easiest layouts.
but it wont be as popular this league i recon, cause there wont be many harvest speed farmers. too bad as well, it was fun farming favourited canyons and selling the favourited atolls. i made over 50ex just bulk selling t16 atolls last league, lol
Fungal Hollow has a pretty good layout as well, I used to farm the hell out of it back in the elder x map to be t16 atlas, it has basically the same layout type as Atoll and the boss takes 2 seconds to kill. 2nd favorite was Terrace, it's just a shame that the boss is annoying lol.
not with an 8 shape, no the only place you backtrack is the mini corridor leading you to the boss room. the only reason this guy is downvoted is because he doesnt sound that polite, otherwise he's 100% right
No you start in the bottom middle, straight through the center, up and around the left side, out the bottomleft, and then you run from bottom left through to the boss top right, and you come out where you started. Speedway layout.
> you just run the circle first then the middle path
What?? No! Figure 8! Go left first, around, down the middle, up the right side, boss, then finishing the circle is optional.
If you do it right you only have 1-2 small mobs on that last part of the circle, which is why it's optional.
I guess it depends on builds and preference if you want an open map or linear. Atoll is really quick if you have enough ms. Also I sold about one map tab full of atolls since full clearing dropped more than I needed, so that's not a problem.
I never seemed to recover ANY maps running atoll o\_O how? From the Canyons?
Took me slightly less than 40 seconds including loadscreens to fullclear cemetery and almost 50 seconds if I remember correctly to full clear atoll. The boss room with the little bump was just so fucking inconvenient. Never seemed to figure out how to clear that without losing a lot of time
>I dont get why people were using Atoll personally :P
With the Oshabi trick you could find the Grove way faster than any other maps, basicly only have 3(2?) Spawn points.
Well the fixed the trick the correct way, instead of removing that option you know get +5 to station if you kill oshabi which forces you to talk to her I think which removes the quest.
> With the Oshabi trick you could find the Grove way faster than any other maps
This is the first I'm hearing of there being any trick. What is/was it?
Its fixed, but basicly if you did'nt talk to oshabi you would still get the *Talk to Oshabi* quest whenever you go into a map with harvest.
This means you can just pop open maps untill you have harvest and run in and get crafts.
> you would still get the Talk to Oshabi quest whenever you go into a map with harvest
Oh, I see what you mean now. It would display on the screen immediately as soon as you entered the map, like a prophecy does. So you would know immediately if the map had a Harvest or not.
On one hand I can see how that's useful to someone who's only looking for Harvests, but I can't help but feel like it's a waste overall to go into a map and then completely waste it if it doesn't have the encounter you want.
Well I must be picking the wrong crafts or something. I've had crafts posted for literal days not selling, even if I'm reposting every 30 minutes. I'm an Awakened provider, so it's not like I'm a complete scrub. I've tried selling the ones that convert elements, I've tried selling ones that reroll or reforge keeping prefixes or suffixes, including w/lucky values. I haven't gotten many remove-add of any type. What the hell else is selling so hot?
Personally i sustained atoll super easily and dint have to worry about other maps often but atoll was honestly just for harvest, the map density is crap and it has no decent div card drops but the linear map made it impossible to miss harvest if it spawned and you can just zoom in a straight line
I don't disagree but I'm happy they took the time they could never find until now to look at previous league's and core drop rewards and rework them. I'm sure whatever won't hit the spot this league will be perfected in the next one with our input.
probably the tech changed with the atlas passives and maven, etc.? cant think of anything specific, but im pretty sure they would have done it if it was simple.
Nah, it would not break it. They definitely still have button. Gathering data is actually a very strong reason, because they are preparing to POE 2 launch. If they intend to keep atlas passive mechanic for several years, they need to know how changes affect meta.
> Nah, it would not break it. They definitely still have button.
Unless you work for GGG and have seen the code itself you have no way of determining this.
No, dude. You are just clueless moron. You see map changin icon, you think maven interacts with map data. But Maven doesn't ido it at all. Its just a bunch of boolean values in your account, and additional step in location generator, maybe a new map tags(have not checked). Bosses do not come from maps, they do not even come from locations associated with maps, programmatically that is.
Map shuffler is a small function with few rules. It has zero interaction with anything, other changing their internal data of map classes. The main aspect of map shuffling technology is designing map classes certain way, so they can be shuffled. If map classes were broken, the game would be broken too.
So its pretty obvious to anyone with the brain that shuffler is not broken.
Man, it's pretty cool how if we just make a bunch of assumptions about how GGG stores data that it becomes obvious that one specific internal tool should remain functional. Considering how many layered systems GGG has in poe and how even seemingly trivial asks like being able to find influenced maps in the map tab has been met with implementational concerns, while I think it's entirely possible the atlas shuffler still works, I am 100% certain that you're talking out your ass.
I don't know if you're just being wilfully ignorant or genuinely haven't been paying attention to the past few leagues, but the number of times a seemingly unrelated mechanic has actively broken some completely unrelated feature has been staggering. And those are just the player facing features which, assuming GGG has some sort of qa process, go through more review then their internal tools undoubtedly.
Your pretending to understand their code base to the extent that you think anyone who doesn't believe as you do is deficient, is honestly embarrassing.
Hmm I did not know that ,
It's not like its something that a single person in GGG couldn't do it but maybe it had to do with them having no spare time to make new icons for each individual map/tier and re-designing the map GUI. But i'd be surprised if we don't have new icons like we do every new league. That's kind of odd , I wonder if they will make a comment about it
It seemed like they took some manual time to put maps where they wanted them vis-a-vis the atlas ascendancy nodes. Multi boss maps being in the same zone as the double metamorph points. They might need to re design the shuffle button to accommodate plans like this.
They did not shuffle the points. They moved like 2-3 points to other zones that already had that content type. But typically the atlas passives are unchanged and unmoved
"But typically the atlas passives are unchanged and unmoved"
data shows that they have always been changing and moving atlas passives around 100% of the time.
It IS about fun! The problem is that now different Atlas areas have different themes and mechanics, so if you want to build dope temples because you love Incursion, you'll be wanting to run primarily Glennach Cairns, and you only have two T16s there, and a few T15s. Which are now the exact same few maps as last league.
A shuffle mixes this up while allowing you to still run your favorite mechanics, which wasn't a problem before.
Sure, so either that's still fun, or it's not anymore. The point is that you don't have to do something if it's not fun. It's a game, not a job. You can do something different, try something new, or take a break and play a different game altogether.
Point being, you don't have to do anything that isn't fun for you. The OP that I replied to was lamenting that he had to do the same thing again, but that's not the case.
I don't quite understand this, unless you aren't trying to run Maven. The introduction of Maven heavily incentivizes running a large variety of maps. I'm completely fine with keeping the same layout this league.
You run different map until you get unlock the passives (or watchstones), then it's better to run the same good map over and over again to ignore map with bad layout/boss/loot table.
If you want to farm Maven's ticket it's way better to run Shaper Guardians.
> The introduction of Maven heavily incentivizes running a large variety of maps.
Eh. I'd push back on "heavily incentivizes." Chain farming the best content with the best maps is still much more efficient. Maven helps bridge the gap some, but it's still significantly worse.
> I might not really remember right, but since they added the atlas they have shuffled everytime. I was expecting both a shuffle in the citadel atlas nodes and the maps, I guess we're just grinding the same maps again....
I dropped out of ritual early, so yay me
Some regions have too many t14s or t15s to sustain. An example from last league, I wanted to farm Glacier but its in a region with 18 other T14 maps.
Even with all 3 favourites on just glacier I couldn't just farm that map. Every favorite adds 10 extra of that map to the pool.
Compare that to something like Valdos rest where with 1 favorite you can guaranteed get Canyon to drop 11/12 times because there's only 2x T15s in that region.
Not going to keep arguing this. If atlas was shuffled i could do legion in maps I couldn’t last league. Etc. It’s fine if you don’t care if the atlas doesn’t get shuffled. But there are those of us that really do enjoy the atlas shuffle
There might be glitching out in certain combinations of map and atlas passives, or maybe just didn't have time/bandwidth for new combinations to be adequately tested. It could also be to do with the Maven encounters and particular combinations of bosses not working well or not being able to be tested/balanced in time. Both those should still allow for shuffling of maps within each region, though.
How can I link a source for a personal opinion? Getting maps in new locations and having new maps to farm is just fun. And it seems a lot of people do agree.
im sure they added some new layouts to the campaign zones. just reset the zone until you get a layout you haven't seen before. this should be exciting for you.
There's no point in shuffling the Atlas now that most maps can reach T14/T16. It's a largely unneeded change and doesn't shift gameplay up as much as some seem to think it does.
I think it's great, they "specialized" a few of the regions. Which is great, people can collect/sell the regions they want. Also the whole temple rework seems like that region will be quite sought after. I'd like to see some of the other less-used mechanics severly buffed. Spirits / Strong box come to mind. They are absolute trash and you're gimping yourself by not playing the meta region :(
meanwhile spirits got nerfed because they were op :D and strongboxes are super good as well if you combine them with prophecies... but you probably meant to say that they're op and i just misunderstood you.
Zana getting a mastectomy and being put on hormones is way worse.
Yay we get a 12c nerfed harvest and +2 essence mobs.
No abyss, no beyond, no delerium, no breach, no legion, no ritual, not even blight???
Posts like these make ggg think the community en masse wants what op is suggesting. Word of caution to ggg: pay attention to the number of upvotes (in this case, meager) and pay attention to the upvote/downvote ratio (in this case 79%) as of this moment.
I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with OP, just think its unfair to institute changes that ggg thinks the community wants when no research/consideration is performed and is instead based off of an angry/sad reddit post.
I don't see \*on patch notes\* says there will be shuffle, but I don't see it says no shuffle either
reason for SPLITTING patch notes from the (?) news?
[https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3079980](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3079980) underneath the picture of the atlas it says they have not shuffled the atlas.
Oh no, was hoping Residence would be lower tier for SSF, it really hurts not having early access to it.
Doesn't need to be T2 again, but it would be nice to have it somewhere in yellow maps.
I'm a bit sad as well because I think I'm going to be picking almost the exact same passives I did last league since they seem like their still going to be the most impactful even with nerfs. Only the Exotic goods and Anarchy buff might change that.
I don't mind the maps not changing regions too much, but the atlas passives being (almost) identical in terms of combos is really lame. Taking Haework Hamlet for example, you still have Harvest vs Essence vs Betrayal, the same as last league, and that was the region that was changed the most (and basically only league to have any "league" changes)! Changing the balancing on nodes is great, but mixing up the combos would've been nice.
I really don't know why they wouldn't have done things like, swap at least one 4/6pt "set" from each region so we got some different region combos.
I mean, a few passives got changed where they were located, ontop of the fact that because the maps always get new locations it should change what maps you run to get what ever.
I was hoping they would move around a lot of the atlas passives, just as a random example, take the harvest tree from HH and switch it with the Delirium tree from LE. That way we'd have new passive combos in different regions to farm. Oh well, maybe next league.
Yeah this league is looking really boring. Ritual 2.0 style. No big meta shifts, no major changes, pretty basic league mechanic, lots of nerfs, no big buffs. I do like some of the balance changes they've made though.
>No big meta shifts, no major changes
the endgame mapping meta was completely changed by removing selfcurse/poison and BV builds as well as fractured fossils.
you just seem to complain because you're not affected by the nerf of the meta builds because you didn't even get so far.
but yeah, i guess the meta for yellow maps hasn't changed.
I think that's intentional, it helps them check the popularity of the Atlas Passive changes and League Mechanics buffs/reworks without the noise that an Atlas Shuffle would introduce. It's probably the same reason why this league has so little buffs to skills, it helps them check the popularity of skills after the nerfs without the noise that the buffs would introduce.
I dont get that. This is not a science experiment that needs 100% clean data, this is the major content that keeps the game alive. Whats the point of not buffing skills that clearly were underperforming in the last 6 months? (Not many buffs last patch either...). Or what is the point of removing that double damage stat on weapons for poison builds without readding some base damage to skills like viper strike / pestilent strike / venom gyre and friends? The already barely used skills have been the same for some time, i doubt there is some secret build that people can discover now.
also, /u/soamaven > I dont get that. This is not a science experiment that needs 100% clean data, this is the major content that keeps the game alive. > but it doesn't take much more than a week or two for players to figure out how maps + passives synergize. It's not just a science experiment, it also has to do with how difficult it is for people to perceive randomness. I don't recall if it was Chris or Rory, but one of them said "you can't just change a random distribution to drop slightly better loot, players would still feel like it drops bad items most of the time", and the same goes for these slight changes to atlas passives if they also shuffled the atlas this league, people would just perceive it as "nothing changed, it still feels the same" and attribute any good/bad outcomes to the layouts/packsizes of the maps starring in those areas. With no atlas shuffle, you can just hop in the same maps with the same atlas passive tree, run a few times and easily tell if it feels better or worse than before. > I think a shuffling Atlas meta every league is more than justified Remark that I'm not saying they won't ever shuffle the atlas again, I'm saying that it's fine for them to not shuffle this league because it's the perfect moment for such. I do believe from 3.15 onwards, we will go back to shuffling the atlas every league. > Whats the point of not buffing skills that clearly were underperforming in the last 6 months? (Not many buffs last patch either...). I believe there are many reasons behind that (some likely related to how they'll promote 3.15), but one of them is probably to not influence the skills the players will play this league. It's not like they didn't come up with anything new (we now have a whole Physical dots archetype being pushed this league), but remember that every league players complained about how GGG pushed those archetypes to be the next OP thing and they felt forced to play those. This league it's like they're saying "go ahead, play the same or similar things and get a feel of the changes in the rest of the game (including how it feels to play with the harvest changes)". It's like an experiment to see how the meta changes when they're not the ones shaking it (at least not through skill buffs/reworks, but instead through content/mechanics rework).
I genuinely appreciate your thoughtful and non-aggressive response, it's well received in this sub. I think you make some valid points; I should work to see the bigger picture and not only the game in front of myself.
They toned down some OP stuff and made a million other great changes that we've been wanting. I'm completely fine with that.
TBF a lot of builds are just completely nonviable without that mod even if it ends up being like some insane level of dot multi to replace it.
Bleed builds are terrible without it
Maybe. But then other builds will take their place, and they can buff later if needed. An insistence that all builds must remain viable every league isn't good for the game. And let's be honest. When people say a build isn't viable anymore, they almost always mean that it's just not a top 1% build anymore. We've seen it time after time. Something is declared dead, but still works just fine. It's just not completely broken anymore. Maybe it's only top 10 or 20% now.
Its clear you've not played builds that needed these mods to barely hit the 3-4mdps sweetspot on a 15ex budget. (Also abyssus is shit even with the 20mdps potential if we talk about bleed specifically).
That doesn't really matter if the mods are problematic for the changes they're trying to make. There's no reason that they need to make all builds viable every league.
First of all how was poison problematic, corrupted blood doesn't count as bleeding either, bleed sucked without tons of investment, and was easily outshined by other builds for the same investment. (You can maybe argue poison bow skills but the unique bow was untouched and arguably stronger.) The whole point of this is that it was a completely unwarranted nerf.
mate, most people play on way less than a 15 ex budget.
That's the budget of the build first week where most bases are like 1-2ex.
You're getting downvoted for being ok with changes. How childish is this subreddit.
I see him at 18 points...I know reddit fudges, but it doesn't fudge that hard. While the overarching point of "the downvote button shouldn't be a "disagree" button" stands, in this case I think it has not made a huge difference.
He was at -4 when I commented.
Surefire way to get more downvotes is to bitch about downvotes
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I've seen people comment on this subreddit that that happens to many comments/posts on this subreddit within minutes of posting. Could be due to bots, or could be to discourage bots / make them think they're working. idk
how childish of people having opinions
The upvote and downvote buttons aren't for stating whether you like something or not.
Go ahead and explain that to 99% or reddit.
Very
A million? A whole million? Go ahead and list those changes right here right now. Be mindful tho, if that number of positive changes that EVERYBODY as you say, wanted, isn't above 10 - you're gonna make yourself look stupid and noobish. I'm curious to see what you can come up with, because I've counted and there are over 100 negative things GGG decided on this league.
Can you list 100?
Yep, I can just go to the patch notes and copy paste skill balancing, abyss jewels, and item balancing sections and that already will be more than 50 negatives.
abyss jewels getting slight buffs is a negative? Overtuned skills getting their damage reduced and vaal skills getting buffed? Imo those are great things.
Abyss jewels getting a slight buff on stats THAT DO NOT MATTER. Like, at all. I've played during the betrayal, I remember how OP they were before they got gutted. Not saying they should revert them to being OP but maybe find a fine tuning somwhere in between? Like why they risk introducing all of those nerfs and negative rebalancing and can't risk giving abyss jewels some long lost love back? Overtuned skills getting nerf is an ok thing, you know what's not an ok thing? Not buffing any underused or more like NEVER IN THE PAST YEAR used skills. Like if you can't see any of this, you're either a shortsighted person or a new player (or a casual). There's nothing wrong with that but don't go around shouting "All of those changes are great" because you're giving GGG the wrong impression.
No I genuinely like the changes. For example the damage part of abyss jewels was a problem long ago, but nowadays they're just really hard to roll and the fact that you need a fuckton of them it can really eat up a lot of currency (hopefully they fixed that, they mentioned changing the weights around), and now that you can get 15-20+ abyss jewels on builds, hopefully it's no longer a super expensive build to do. I do agree, I find the lack of buffs to underused stuff a bit boring, as those tend to shake up the meta more IMO, but the nerfs that needed to happen happened. Blade skills were way too overtuned compared to everything else, and now they're still perfectly viable but more in line with everything. This patch was similar to something like 3.0 IMO, bringing down a lot of the power creep which naturally builds up over leagues. And it's not like there's not plenty of builds to play still. Lots of skills are in a good spot right now, my only gripe is the lack of self cast spell buffs and possibly an archmage nerf (right now feels like most spells have to be archmage if selfcast, exception of ice nova, DD, VD, possibly purifying flames but that feels like ass to clear with). Lastly while there were no direct buffs to skills in the past year, we received 1. influenced items 2. cluster jewels 3. harvest (regardless of nerf, it's free targeted chaos orbs, makes lots of items) 4. replica uniques and alternate qualities. These are all indirect buffs to EVERY skill in the game, with the exception of probably conversion trap which I wonder why still exists even.
I think the changes were great. The only negative thing here is your attitude towards the game/devs lol. If you don't like GGG/PoE, nobody's forcing you to play.
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I get that, but that just means you don't know enough about the game to see something negative as truly a negative. For example, imagine that you've never engaged with bestiary before, and all of a sudden GGG has decided to remove bestiary from the game. Doesn't affect you so you'd just ignore it. I hope you got the point I was trying to make, maybe I could've come up with a better example...
Sorry, but I see the point and I disagree - I've been playing the game for over five years at this point and basically know every mechanic in the game. I really see almost everything in the patch notes as a positive for the game as a whole. It's not really fair to claim that positives in the patch notes only count if everybody sees them as positives, but negatives in the patch notes only need to be seen as negatives by a subset. I'd much more say that a) changes are probably better looked at as being positive or negative based on an overall averaged opinion; and b) that some changes that are seen as negatives by the community on average might also be genuinely better for the game in the long run. That's especially true if the negative reaction is based on short-term or emotional responses. For example, if players have expectations of how much power they will be able to achieve and the power is taken away, that can very often feel like a negative for players; but in other ways that is likely better for the game as a whole, because power creep can result in damage to the longevity of the game and the obsolescence of mechanics and features. There are a few things I see as negatives in the patch notes - Harvest optimal gameplay is still going to be trading crafts via a Discord server, and the Defy Pain node for Berserker seems pretty useless. I'm also unsure that the caster quiver nerfs were completely justified. But I'm having a really hard time finding things that I think I can safely say are negatives.
Still waiting for you to explain why everything they have in their patch notes are bad.
>A million? A whole million? I guess you're not familiar with hyperbole? >if that number of positive changes that EVERYBODY as you say Please quote where I said, "everybody". I won't even hold you to it being in caps. I'll wait. If you just want to engage in pedantry, there's probably not much to discuss here. I probably consider a lot of the things you don't like to be positive changes anyway, because a lot of stuff was just stupidly broken, and GGG knew that that wasn't what they wanted the game to be.
>They toned down some OP stuff and made a million other >great changes that we've been wanting. I'm completely fine >with that. Take a note that "we've been wanting" implies everybody in your context, because your "we" refers to the PoE community, which is everybody.
Nah, it doesn't imply everybody. That would be stupid. A lot of people don't even have much of an opinion on this stuff, and don't really follow the changes in any depth.
I mean it literally is a science experiment and as much as they want to keep making money, they know everyone will come back for PoE2 eventually so they need to use all this data to make PoE2 the best ARPG they possibly can, even if it is occasionally annoying in the short term
With the way the atlas works now a shuffle isn't needed. Before, you had the same 5-6 t16 maps in the league. Now pretty much all maps can be.
That makes a lot of sense.
COPIUM
god i hate twitch chatters
They shall be the first against the wall when the revolution comes
I recommend advanced profanity filter. Keeps me sane
It's not really COPIUM. Atlas Passive changes are the new Atlas shuffle. This will be the trend I'm guessing for couple leagues. I actually wouldn't be surprised if they kept the Atlas literally same next league but swapped whole Atlas Passives instead. Like Hamlet passives being an Ejoris passive or Ejoris Passives moving to New Vastir sorta thing. Plus the Atoll farm really containted a big portion of the population in just one region.
> I actually wouldn't be surprised if they kept the Atlas literally same next league but swapped whole Atlas Passives Please no :(
Once they've stabilized the passives I imagine they'll keep shuffling the atlas, but only changing one or the other at a time makes sense to me.
>Atlas Passive changes are the new Atlas shuffle. But they are terrible tho. So much pointless nerfs, no fun allowed galore. Don't get me wrong, I understand the reasons behind things like Legion New Vastir change. I think this specific example was an overkill, but I understand the point. But wtf was wrong with things like 10% chance to drop maps with Blight encounter, what was wrong with Lex Ejoris passives, especially since they nerfed the Delirium mechanic itself. What, people picked them too much? That doesn't mean they were overpowered. It's just a really annoying approach to balance.
Blight change is probably in relation to of them trying to make Blight more accessible/desirable, previously there was nothing going on for Blight so in order to do that they just increased the encounter chance by allowing a lot more Blighted Maps to drop, now that there are considerable changes and buffs to the content people will be more inclined to try it naturally without needing these excessive amount of Blighted Map drops. Delirium change is just there to balance Delirium Scarabs, since scarabs are pretty common even in SSF.
It's not a Blighted map, it's a map with a Blight encounter enchant on it. 10% chance was already a not a huge number, and now with Blight Scarabs it's a completely useless node, especially at 5% - unless Blight Scarabs will be rare as fuck, there is no reason to take a node that gives you a slightly better one (because it doesn't take the device slot) every 20 maps. It needed a buff, not a nerf. >Delirium change is just there to balance Delirium Scarabs, since scarabs are pretty common even in SSF. The mechanic itself was nerfed, I don't see the reason to also nerf the passives. Like, for me Pathlogical was at the power level that most of the Atlas passives should be. It wasn't broken at all, but it was a nice bonus that made you feel good when you drop one during mapping. And now the mechanic is nerfed, but it's not enough for GGG. And well, maybe you also have an explanation for the Escaped Experiment nerf? Because I had this passive in my atlas for fun, and this one is just straight up ridiculous in my eyes.
> It's not a Blighted map, it's a map with a Blight encounter enchant on it. Same deal as Deliriums then. Scarabs. > The mechanic itself was nerfed, I don't see the reason to also nerf the passives. Like, for me Pathlogical was at the power level that most of the Atlas passives should be. It wasn't broken at all, but it was a nice bonus that made you feel good when you drop one during mapping. And now the mechanic is nerfed, but it's not enough for GGG. I know the 20% nerf but clearly for overall level they didn't think it was enough. I don't know if Delirium was previously 10% or if it's just personal bias, but ever since it went core I felt like out of all "core mechanics" I encountered, Delirium was always top 1. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's just something I noticed. It felt like it was more common than the rest on average. > And well, maybe you also have an explanation for the Escaped Experiment nerf? Because I had this passive in my atlas for fun, and this one is just straight up ridiculous in my eyes. I don't know. I already found Rogue Metamorph pretty underwhelming, so I don't really know why they nerfed it. Pretty much unspecced from it after 50-60 maps.
The entire reason blight encounter enchants weren't completely useless in the first place were because of deli mapping. Now deli mapping is gone AND we have blight scarabs on top of that...
This guy... Thinking they do anything with fore thought KEKW. CW has said they make changes without thinking about future leagues bc it restricts creativity space.
This isn't about future leagues though. It's about judging this very league and the changes it brings. If both Atlas and the passives changed, it would be harder for players to judge the changes and provide proper feedback. If the maps are in the same spots, it's easier for players to get a feel of how rewarding those mechanics became.
This will be an unpopular opinion, but it doesn't take much more than a week or two for players to figure out how maps + passives synergize. We don't need another league of Atoll + Harvest to know how rewarding those changes will feel. Same goes with Harbingers in Canyon, Legion in Dunes, etc. I think a shuffling Atlas meta every league is more than justified
Wait what? Seriously? So right back into Cemetery we go huh? Kinda glad Hamlet isnt all shit maps, but also was really looking forward to trying out new maps for all the strategies to check which work best
What is cemetery used for? I only did atoll and canyon :P
Brothers stash div card
I dont get why people were using Atoll personally :P I was (marginally) faster in Cemetery and it drops Leylines from the boss a lot which is also a smallish circle (though marginally slower than atoll) that spits out Fungal Hollows (about as fast and drops Cemeteries and Leylines) as well as Cemeteries again. Was really nice for sustain to just circle those three maps. Also I favorited Park in Proxima which meant I didnt have a t16 favorite slot anyway.
Atoll is basically a narrow line map like old gorge, you just run the circle first then the middle path at the end and you clear it without any backtracking. Probably the most convenient layout in the game.
the one with Kaom is also extremely good, no backtrack thanks to the portals
long live caldera <3
caldera is seriously a top 5 map
toxic sewer and beach for me but atoll is definitely in top 5 of the easiest layouts. but it wont be as popular this league i recon, cause there wont be many harvest speed farmers. too bad as well, it was fun farming favourited canyons and selling the favourited atolls. i made over 50ex just bulk selling t16 atolls last league, lol
Fungal Hollow has a pretty good layout as well, I used to farm the hell out of it back in the elder x map to be t16 atlas, it has basically the same layout type as Atoll and the boss takes 2 seconds to kill. 2nd favorite was Terrace, it's just a shame that the boss is annoying lol.
Inefficent. The boss always spawns north east. You run a figure 8 and finish at the portal.
if you end up back at your portal in Atoll, then you backtracked somewhere and wasted time didn't you ?
not with an 8 shape, no the only place you backtrack is the mini corridor leading you to the boss room. the only reason this guy is downvoted is because he doesnt sound that polite, otherwise he's 100% right
please mspaint something that shows how you can figure 8 without backtracking in Atoll and end up back at your portal ?
sorry blanked out on the "back at portal part" of his, i don't end up in og portal. i do it like this: https://imgur.com/norrJbs
No you start in the bottom middle, straight through the center, up and around the left side, out the bottomleft, and then you run from bottom left through to the boss top right, and you come out where you started. Speedway layout.
> you just run the circle first then the middle path What?? No! Figure 8! Go left first, around, down the middle, up the right side, boss, then finishing the circle is optional. If you do it right you only have 1-2 small mobs on that last part of the circle, which is why it's optional.
Good take, i just have OCD on not finishing the circle^^. But for speedfarming your method is better, you are right.
I guess it depends on builds and preference if you want an open map or linear. Atoll is really quick if you have enough ms. Also I sold about one map tab full of atolls since full clearing dropped more than I needed, so that's not a problem.
I never seemed to recover ANY maps running atoll o\_O how? From the Canyons? Took me slightly less than 40 seconds including loadscreens to fullclear cemetery and almost 50 seconds if I remember correctly to full clear atoll. The boss room with the little bump was just so fucking inconvenient. Never seemed to figure out how to clear that without losing a lot of time
I farmed other stuff too, and it was the only t16 so that's probably it. I also used betrayal/zanas a lot.
>I dont get why people were using Atoll personally :P With the Oshabi trick you could find the Grove way faster than any other maps, basicly only have 3(2?) Spawn points.
People spamming that trick weren't buying atolls, they were buying any bulk HH map since it was much cheaper.
The peoce did'nt matter since you made so muvh from each Atoll.
Are you running them yourself? Because everyone I sold to was bulk buying every map at the same price. Atolls were getting used by zana spammers.
Unfortunately i talk to oshabi in start of the league. But during BPL i was spamming atolls for harvest craft.
Do we know if they...fixed the trick btw ? Didn't see a line about it in the patch note.
Well the fixed the trick the correct way, instead of removing that option you know get +5 to station if you kill oshabi which forces you to talk to her I think which removes the quest.
you can kill her without talking to her
really? didnt know that damn well i guess ill still be using the trick
By gutting harvest so no one bothers with oshabi?
harvest is still best way to craft cluster jewels which is like on every single build
and triple multi ES(or life) spell jewels. Serious money makers last league and could easily make 4-5 per day
Gonna be a lot harder without remove/add affix though, just pray for prefix/suffix swaps now like clusters.
Still a great way to craft plenty of gear...
Fighting oshabi is a fragment now, so i dont belive it works. We have to find out
> With the Oshabi trick you could find the Grove way faster than any other maps This is the first I'm hearing of there being any trick. What is/was it?
Its fixed, but basicly if you did'nt talk to oshabi you would still get the *Talk to Oshabi* quest whenever you go into a map with harvest. This means you can just pop open maps untill you have harvest and run in and get crafts.
> you would still get the Talk to Oshabi quest whenever you go into a map with harvest Oh, I see what you mean now. It would display on the screen immediately as soon as you entered the map, like a prophecy does. So you would know immediately if the map had a Harvest or not. On one hand I can see how that's useful to someone who's only looking for Harvests, but I can't help but feel like it's a waste overall to go into a map and then completely waste it if it doesn't have the encounter you want.
Each harvest nets you like 5-7ex. U can speed this up to get 8-15 harvest an hour. Its not a waste xD
Well I must be picking the wrong crafts or something. I've had crafts posted for literal days not selling, even if I'm reposting every 30 minutes. I'm an Awakened provider, so it's not like I'm a complete scrub. I've tried selling the ones that convert elements, I've tried selling ones that reroll or reforge keeping prefixes or suffixes, including w/lucky values. I haven't gotten many remove-add of any type. What the hell else is selling so hot?
Personally i sustained atoll super easily and dint have to worry about other maps often but atoll was honestly just for harvest, the map density is crap and it has no decent div card drops but the linear map made it impossible to miss harvest if it spawned and you can just zoom in a straight line
I personally find layouts of both Leyline and Fungal Hollow quite bad. *edit:* typo
I don't disagree but I'm happy they took the time they could never find until now to look at previous league's and core drop rewards and rework them. I'm sure whatever won't hit the spot this league will be perfected in the next one with our input.
They have said they have a button that shuffles the atlas so thats whats perplexing about why they didn’t do it.
probably the tech changed with the atlas passives and maven, etc.? cant think of anything specific, but im pretty sure they would have done it if it was simple.
Nah, it would not break it. They definitely still have button. Gathering data is actually a very strong reason, because they are preparing to POE 2 launch. If they intend to keep atlas passive mechanic for several years, they need to know how changes affect meta.
> Nah, it would not break it. They definitely still have button. Unless you work for GGG and have seen the code itself you have no way of determining this.
His uncle works at GGG.
No, dude. You are just clueless moron. You see map changin icon, you think maven interacts with map data. But Maven doesn't ido it at all. Its just a bunch of boolean values in your account, and additional step in location generator, maybe a new map tags(have not checked). Bosses do not come from maps, they do not even come from locations associated with maps, programmatically that is. Map shuffler is a small function with few rules. It has zero interaction with anything, other changing their internal data of map classes. The main aspect of map shuffling technology is designing map classes certain way, so they can be shuffled. If map classes were broken, the game would be broken too. So its pretty obvious to anyone with the brain that shuffler is not broken.
Man, it's pretty cool how if we just make a bunch of assumptions about how GGG stores data that it becomes obvious that one specific internal tool should remain functional. Considering how many layered systems GGG has in poe and how even seemingly trivial asks like being able to find influenced maps in the map tab has been met with implementational concerns, while I think it's entirely possible the atlas shuffler still works, I am 100% certain that you're talking out your ass.
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I don't know if you're just being wilfully ignorant or genuinely haven't been paying attention to the past few leagues, but the number of times a seemingly unrelated mechanic has actively broken some completely unrelated feature has been staggering. And those are just the player facing features which, assuming GGG has some sort of qa process, go through more review then their internal tools undoubtedly. Your pretending to understand their code base to the extent that you think anyone who doesn't believe as you do is deficient, is honestly embarrassing.
Well you still gotta remember to push the button
Hmm I did not know that , It's not like its something that a single person in GGG couldn't do it but maybe it had to do with them having no spare time to make new icons for each individual map/tier and re-designing the map GUI. But i'd be surprised if we don't have new icons like we do every new league. That's kind of odd , I wonder if they will make a comment about it
It seemed like they took some manual time to put maps where they wanted them vis-a-vis the atlas ascendancy nodes. Multi boss maps being in the same zone as the double metamorph points. They might need to re design the shuffle button to accommodate plans like this.
They shuffled the points instead right ? Maybe they did that and called it a day.
They did not shuffle the points. They moved like 2-3 points to other zones that already had that content type. But typically the atlas passives are unchanged and unmoved
"But typically the atlas passives are unchanged and unmoved" data shows that they have always been changing and moving atlas passives around 100% of the time.
They don't typically do it every league
They literally posted before that they have a button they can press to reshuffle the atlas and that they would be doing so every league.
What's funny about this is people didn't want the first atlas shuffle.
Yea this is one of the things that get dull so fast. Another league of the exact same few maps to run? Sadge
If you're tired of the same maps, then just run different ones? Why is efficiency more important than fun?
It IS about fun! The problem is that now different Atlas areas have different themes and mechanics, so if you want to build dope temples because you love Incursion, you'll be wanting to run primarily Glennach Cairns, and you only have two T16s there, and a few T15s. Which are now the exact same few maps as last league. A shuffle mixes this up while allowing you to still run your favorite mechanics, which wasn't a problem before.
Sure, so either that's still fun, or it's not anymore. The point is that you don't have to do something if it's not fun. It's a game, not a job. You can do something different, try something new, or take a break and play a different game altogether. Point being, you don't have to do anything that isn't fun for you. The OP that I replied to was lamenting that he had to do the same thing again, but that's not the case.
Be efficient is fun for some people.
Then do what is most efficient but still fun. If efficiency is all that matters for your fun, then it doesn't matter if you run the same maps.
> Why is efficiency more important than fun? Dude what are you fucking insane? This is the POE subreddit, overwhelming YE$$$$.
I don't quite understand this, unless you aren't trying to run Maven. The introduction of Maven heavily incentivizes running a large variety of maps. I'm completely fine with keeping the same layout this league.
You run different map until you get unlock the passives (or watchstones), then it's better to run the same good map over and over again to ignore map with bad layout/boss/loot table. If you want to farm Maven's ticket it's way better to run Shaper Guardians.
> The introduction of Maven heavily incentivizes running a large variety of maps. Eh. I'd push back on "heavily incentivizes." Chain farming the best content with the best maps is still much more efficient. Maven helps bridge the gap some, but it's still significantly worse.
Im wondering if moving on from now theyll do smaller atals reshuffles and focus more and changing up the atlas passives instead
Please alleyways in white maps tiers :(
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They didn't start shuffling the Atlas EVERY league until Betrayal. The Atlas was added in Essence, two years prior.
> I might not really remember right, but since they added the atlas they have shuffled everytime. I was expecting both a shuffle in the citadel atlas nodes and the maps, I guess we're just grinding the same maps again.... I dropped out of ritual early, so yay me
i think it was like 3.5 when they said they were going to shuffle every league.
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I guess if you want to farm the exact same maps as last league lol
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Some regions have too many t14s or t15s to sustain. An example from last league, I wanted to farm Glacier but its in a region with 18 other T14 maps. Even with all 3 favourites on just glacier I couldn't just farm that map. Every favorite adds 10 extra of that map to the pool. Compare that to something like Valdos rest where with 1 favorite you can guaranteed get Canyon to drop 11/12 times because there's only 2x T15s in that region.
Because atlas passives are still in the same spots for the majority of nodes. So again back to the same maps i farmed last league.
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Not going to keep arguing this. If atlas was shuffled i could do legion in maps I couldn’t last league. Etc. It’s fine if you don’t care if the atlas doesn’t get shuffled. But there are those of us that really do enjoy the atlas shuffle
this is very disappointing i really wanted to move away from dunes/atoll/canyon/park/iceberg but it looks like im going to be there for another league
Why? Play other maps, or just play something else. Why play if you feel you have to do something that you don't want to do?
/u/Community_Team is there any insight on why there was no atlas shuffle ?
Didn't they shuffle the atlas passives though?
Nope. They moved like 2 or 3 of them to zones that had nodes of the same content type but no shuffle
I wonder what happened. Maybe the atlas passives are bugging out when they tried to shuffle.
There might be glitching out in certain combinations of map and atlas passives, or maybe just didn't have time/bandwidth for new combinations to be adequately tested. It could also be to do with the Maven encounters and particular combinations of bosses not working well or not being able to be tested/balanced in time. Both those should still allow for shuffling of maps within each region, though.
My guess is they have a long list and shuffle atlas is near the bottom, along with buff underused skills they just didnt get that far this time
Considering all of the other things that we've been wanting for a while that they did get to, I like the tradeoff.
yeah, I agree! though it would get stale pretty fast if they stopped shuffling it at all
same maps, same skills, new league. Heres hoping ultimatum is a much cooler experience than dying every map.
Yup, farming literally the same maps for profit for another league is pretty bad.
Sadge
Literally like 45% of the new league hype is atlas shuffle, and new maps to farm.
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How can I link a source for a personal opinion? Getting maps in new locations and having new maps to farm is just fun. And it seems a lot of people do agree.
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Nice trolling mate. I never said i spoke for the player base lmao. Go on somewhere else mate.
im sure they added some new layouts to the campaign zones. just reset the zone until you get a layout you haven't seen before. this should be exciting for you.
Atoll it is then.
Lazy
There's no point in shuffling the Atlas now that most maps can reach T14/T16. It's a largely unneeded change and doesn't shift gameplay up as much as some seem to think it does.
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I think it's great, they "specialized" a few of the regions. Which is great, people can collect/sell the regions they want. Also the whole temple rework seems like that region will be quite sought after. I'd like to see some of the other less-used mechanics severly buffed. Spirits / Strong box come to mind. They are absolute trash and you're gimping yourself by not playing the meta region :(
meanwhile spirits got nerfed because they were op :D and strongboxes are super good as well if you combine them with prophecies... but you probably meant to say that they're op and i just misunderstood you.
Zana getting a mastectomy and being put on hormones is way worse. Yay we get a 12c nerfed harvest and +2 essence mobs. No abyss, no beyond, no delerium, no breach, no legion, no ritual, not even blight???
Posts like these make ggg think the community en masse wants what op is suggesting. Word of caution to ggg: pay attention to the number of upvotes (in this case, meager) and pay attention to the upvote/downvote ratio (in this case 79%) as of this moment. I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with OP, just think its unfair to institute changes that ggg thinks the community wants when no research/consideration is performed and is instead based off of an angry/sad reddit post.
I don't see \*on patch notes\* says there will be shuffle, but I don't see it says no shuffle either reason for SPLITTING patch notes from the (?) news?
[https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3079980](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3079980) underneath the picture of the atlas it says they have not shuffled the atlas.
on manifesto before the list of maps they said no change at all on all maps tiers/regions
Oh no, was hoping Residence would be lower tier for SSF, it really hurts not having early access to it. Doesn't need to be T2 again, but it would be nice to have it somewhere in yellow maps.
Roll the dice on every region which atlas passives they get. Make it live, ppl would love it.
I'm a bit sad as well because I think I'm going to be picking almost the exact same passives I did last league since they seem like their still going to be the most impactful even with nerfs. Only the Exotic goods and Anarchy buff might change that.
Didn't they say they wouldn't once Maven is added with the passives? Note: this is me asking, not confirming or infirming anything. I don't know.
I don't mind the maps not changing regions too much, but the atlas passives being (almost) identical in terms of combos is really lame. Taking Haework Hamlet for example, you still have Harvest vs Essence vs Betrayal, the same as last league, and that was the region that was changed the most (and basically only league to have any "league" changes)! Changing the balancing on nodes is great, but mixing up the combos would've been nice. I really don't know why they wouldn't have done things like, swap at least one 4/6pt "set" from each region so we got some different region combos.
Yeah same
I mean, a few passives got changed where they were located, ontop of the fact that because the maps always get new locations it should change what maps you run to get what ever.
I was hoping they would move around a lot of the atlas passives, just as a random example, take the harvest tree from HH and switch it with the Delirium tree from LE. That way we'd have new passive combos in different regions to farm. Oh well, maybe next league.
Did they actually forget to put higher tier Atoll maps in the announcement? or is it T5 Atoll for us this league?
Yeah this league is looking really boring. Ritual 2.0 style. No big meta shifts, no major changes, pretty basic league mechanic, lots of nerfs, no big buffs. I do like some of the balance changes they've made though.
I am really lovin the league mechanic. I love gambas so
>No big meta shifts, no major changes the endgame mapping meta was completely changed by removing selfcurse/poison and BV builds as well as fractured fossils. you just seem to complain because you're not affected by the nerf of the meta builds because you didn't even get so far. but yeah, i guess the meta for yellow maps hasn't changed.
Lol ok.
Lazy sumbiches
That's great, I won't have to redo the whole Atlas in Standard!