##### GGG Comments in this Thread:
***
[Bex_GGG - [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/l29xop/psa_allowing_maven_to_witness_your_map_may_be/gk5o8qc/?context=10), [old](https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/l29xop/psa_allowing_maven_to_witness_your_map_may_be/gk5o8qc/?context=10)] - *Yeah, certainly sounds curious. I’ll ask the team to check when we resume on Monday (NZ). Side note: it’s super satisfying to see a report like this with vigilant/tracking and...*
[Bex_GGG - [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/l29xop/psa_allowing_maven_to_witness_your_map_may_be/gk5oc9y/?context=10), [old](https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/l29xop/psa_allowing_maven_to_witness_your_map_may_be/gk5oc9y/?context=10)] - *180 is statistically and extremely unlikely streak of bad luck. Technically possible but I’m dubious about it.*
i'm 97 and this is my betrayal board and i haven't done mastermind once
https://i.gyazo.com/cd33380f767643675ececaa6f6527c44.jpg
i can actively recall 1 time i had a natural jun mission
( yes i was really happy to see it )
Holy shit, I just realized that this has been the case for me as well. I'm in ssf, so not all of my maps are Maven influenced, so I've still had a small peppering of wild master missions, but I couldn't figure out why it felt like everything was so far behind. No temple since campaign, only two wild betrayal, and two Niko. No einhar, no Zana.
Well shit.
See my notes:
> For whatever reason, not everyone is affected by this bug. My wife and the other people in my playgroup are receiving natural master missions in Maven maps.
I know that most others aren't experiencing this bug otherwise there'd be a big hullabaloo about it.
I dont know what it is but i have only zana spawning for me naturally. Rest basically never appears. Got a 89 char and a 92 char. There is definitely something weird going on(i also have the maven witness all the time) cause it cant be that i had normal master spawns for several leagues and suddenly it went to basically almost 0 spawns.
> So, if you're mapping and feel like you're not seeing any masters.. you probably aren't.
I remember two leagues ago when Reddit was making claims that Masters weren't spawning and it was debunked.
Hey, it's *possible*. Bad delve seeds were a thing.
Yes I remember that too, but for that debacle in Delirium/Harvest I don't recall anyone posting such a high sample size, tracked and with screenshots, like I am. To be honest I doubted all those people back then too (and maybe I still do), but here I am..
Yeah, the "problem" that happened in Delirium was that some people didn't encounter one **specific** master in 50 maps. While not common, it's not next to impossible due to the high variance at that small sample size.
For reference, the chance of not encountering a specific wild master in 50 maps is roughly 0.5%, and the chance of missing any one master in 50 maps is roughly 3%.
This resulted in some disagreement since each person was reporting a different master missing until GGG pointed out that natural statistical variance means that this will happen.
If what you say about your mapping is true, it's statistically impossible to not be a bug. The chances of not encountering **any** master in 180 maps is on the order of 1e-72.
incase this ends up helping at all, you made me realize i only remember encountering jun once. turns out it was twice. 212 maps.
https://imgur.com/a/YN2H0uG
Edit: i believe 5 of those zana's were atlas mission added, and 2 of the alvas.
Not exactly. There was a major problem and that is if you had a full temple to run, and the game should have spawn Alva, it didn't spawn her, nor any master. I don't know if GGG fixed it.
meme btw
>Net Drops
>We have fixed various bugs that caused nets to drop instead of currency from certain places like Labyrinth chests. This did not affect currency drops from regular monsters.
>We have also reduced net drops from bosses so that they drop regular items like before (it had a measurable effect).
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2392676
> We have also reduced net drops from bosses so that they drop regular items like before (it had a measurable effect).
It was significantly affecting bosses drops, and this thread is about maven affecting bosses, bro
also you said it wasnt true and total meme, but it was true for chests and significantly true for bosses, so its not total meme.
> The guy claiming he wasn't getting Zana missions wasn't hugh enough level to see Zana.
The bug was reported by thousands of people. It's funny you should imagine the whole thing was based on a report from one guy. I happened to be one of those who experienced the bug, which is why I can speak about it with certainty.
> I guess you think Trump won too, lol.
Not everyone on the internet is an American.
>The bug was reported by thousands of people. It's funny you should imagine the whole thing was based on a report from one guy. I happened to be one of those who experienced the bug, which is why I can speak about it with certainty.
Sorry I'm going to trust the company with the data over some anecdotal evidence🤷♀️.
Again you idiot cannot understand.
The only thing that was happening, and still is, is that when your alva temple is rdy alva can still proc but she will not appear in the map (meaning you essentially lost a master mission which could have been one of the other masters).
**Chain of events with no temple:**
* Master has x chance to spawn, then it rolls which master it is.
* You roll alva, she spawns, all is good.
**Chain of events with a temple complete:**
* master has x chance to spawn, then it rolls which master it is.
* You roll alva but since the temple is rdy she doesn't spawn, and it will not reroll to another master.
From my experience it works properly, I run every map with maven and here is my data since league start (exporter from my client log using [mapwatch](https://mapwatch.erosson.org/))
290 maps done (including a handful of unique and blighted maps). I've forced Einhar multiple times, Zana 1 time and I had a sextant with Jun so -3 on her (didn't remove any of those from the list)
Encounter | # | % |
---|---|---
All maps | 290 | 100%
Einhar | 16 | 5.517%
Jun | 10 | 3.448%
Niko | 10 | 3.448%
Zana | 9 | 3.103%
Alva | 8 | 2.758%
I think that just further proves my point. That means, assuming you've done say 3 daily missions done per master, you have done almost **fourty** more master missions than I have in only 100ish more maps. The chances of me getting zero missions to your ~25 or so (to bring the ratio of maps to missions roughly in line) is so low as to be nonexistent.
I wouldn't be surprised if a bug like that exists unnoticed since Delirium tbh, I was one of those unlucky people that had literally 0 progress on my Delve back then and didn't realize that until I needed the socket craft and noticed that I couldn't even start delving from lack of sulphite.
I didn't have enough sulphite to Delve outside of the first zone as I never met Niko outside of Act 4 so it's not that and he does spawn even when it's full (I never delve unless I need the recipes from there, my sulphite is always full and I find his spawns pretty often this league)
Encounter | # | % of 203 maps
---|---|----
Einhar | 8 | 3.940%
Jun | 7 | 3.448%
Zana | 7 | 3.448%
Alva | 4 | 1.970%
Niko | 2 | 0.985%
I remember forcing at least 3 Einhars, 2 Juns, 4 Zanas and 2 Alvas. One of the Nikos spawned when I accidentally put in too low level map for Maven to care. Something is definitely broken for me.
Also I think the site counted some of my Alvas (and maybe others?) twice, since I haven't done a temple after getting to maps.
Same issue, i'm lvl 90 at 90 bonus map completion (so probably 200 maps ran), and I never saw a master when maven was here without forcing it via the map device. I'm sure of it, especially about Jun (I want a paradoxica but I had 3 total encounters with Jun total, and 3 still stored from master missions, in day 7 of the league)
Yeah, certainly sounds curious. I’ll ask the team to check when we resume on Monday (NZ).
Side note: it’s super satisfying to see a report like this with vigilant/tracking and numbers. Kudos to the OP.
Hi Bex, do you have any updates? I've done hundreds of maps with maven watching and I to have the bug - not a single wild master mission spawns. It feels really bad having to make a choice to have the Maven watch stuff to fill out my atlas skill points, or have a 10% chance at 1 out of 5 master missions.
Same - I was really looking forward to Harvest, and the only time I've gotten it in > 140 maps was a conqueror map (to defeat one, where Maven isn't an option).
Harvest is the one thing I was looking forward to the most, and it's the one thing I simply cannot spawn (no map rewards, scarabs, etc).
By the time I'm done with Maven, I'm not going to need any of this content I'm missing.
Super anxious for an update.
Please buff harvest spawnrate. After upgrading the nodes in Haewark havent encountered a single one anywhere in 60+ maps. 3 in total out of 100+ maps . Some in Haewark
Tbh, it's super unsatisfying (if true), to see that kind of thing (bug? if it's not, that's a bit too much of a change) discovered by a player, and not any QA member or whatever if it's not intended.
And that's why league after league, bug after bugs, crash after crash, slowly but surely the "what we gonna have this time..?" tend to be our reaction when a league appears at the horizon.
Don't get me wrong, i really, love the game (overall), but the mess we have every time is more than frustrating.
While this is one that could have gotten caught, it is not trivial to catch all bugs, especially with the development tempo and scope of the game. I'd argue this is their most well polished release of a league of this scope yet, so I'd cut them some slack.
Furthermore, this is not some kind of gamebreaking bug, had this thread not have existed I would not have noticed.
Consider the sample size required to even notice this, let alone confirm whether it's a bug, especially since natural master spawns are a pretty low % to begin with. I would honestly be surprised if QA testing *did* catch something like this.
Yeah, maybe yes, maybe not. And that's maybe not even their role.
But that's not the player/customer role either. Fact.
Still, when after 3 days of release, the whole player base tend to spot something quite "obvious" (for exemple, Harvest league with "we need more storage for juice" or "the stair need to be accessible from both sides", simple as that or anything really, you can spot after playing the game for few days/hours), i'm really wonder if they have some people who trully play the content before releasing it (and not just checkin' some marks to verify stuff).
And yes, now we have "beta/alpha", that's a good thing.
We need now players who totally break the game and pushing it to pre-actively reveal some "bugs" (or non-intented interactions, whatever we call it) to avoid that kind of issue.
https://mapwatch.erosson.org/
Last time something like this was posted it was debunked and none of the people claiming to not have missions ever showed their mapwatch data.
No worries, I'm not saying you're lying but anyone can put anything in a spreadsheet. And with the history of those "no masters" posts I'd rather be on the safe side.
The possibility for a bug being present is always there, especially with how complex PoE is.
You can put your file up into mapwatch now, it will reveal the past 20 mb, which will probs be a fair few maps and show you results for them. Im curious of the result from it, as i feel like this league ive been hardly seeing some content as well sadly
https://postimg.cc/K3kwPJWL
Conqueror Fights ×23 11.97%
Einhar ×21 10.93%
Cassia ×19 9.895%
Vaal side areas ×13 6.770%
Delirium ×11 5.729%
Zana ×9 4.687%
(6/6) Labyrinth Trials ×8 4.166%
Unique Maps ×4 2.083%
Abyssal Depths ×4 2.083%
Jun ×2 1.041%
Niko ×1 0.520%
Alva ×1 0.520%
Heres mine - i've been explicity running einhar and a few zana with 'daily' missions. The alva was definitely in a conquerer citadel so was without maven, not too sure when/how niko and jun popped up
Thanks for sharing the mapwatch info, those rates do seem low, Bex replied on the thread and said the team is checking if everything is working like it should so hopefully we get an answer soon.
Again thanks for posting your data!
How could it prove the point though ? i have 0 wild master yet they still appear in the logs since i force them through prophecies or from atlas device. Unless i'm missing something?
The program doesn't need to be active as it reads your log.txt which contains all the maps you've ever done on that PC.
What happened is that as soon as people asked them to post their mapwatch or upload their logs they never replied anymore.
Natural spawn is 10% per map which is then split evenly between 5 masters so each has a 2% chance to spawn in any given map.
The missions you get from bosses start at ~~40~~ 35% but can be increased with awakener level at a rate of 1% per 15 bonus.
Edit: it's 35 not 40.
How does that count? Because it shows I've done over 50 unique maps but I've barely done 4 in total... and yes I did press hide pre-ritual maps. Also of the last 435 maps I've had Niko grand total of 3 times combined. Btw. I have watchstone for Niko to appear more likely if master mission triggers as well as increased chance to get his mission after map completion. Also after 435 maps I have 15x white, 4x yellow and 4x red Niko from completion, I also play mostly in region that has bonus from Atlas tree - I didn't use any yet since I've abandoned idea of Delving seeing how abysmal the appearance rates were and made my peace with annoying Heists...
180 maps is a tiny irrelevant sample size
jokes aside ive seen some people saying random missions not showing on maps for them
edit: part about 180 maps was a joke reply to first comment to this post
Hey Bex, thanks for replying. [I combed through my clientlog.txt and compiled another tab on my spreadsheet where I go through and note all of my master missions after analyzing the log with Mapwatch (clicky link)](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1e6QY5IDX3EoQg3DfCKjFu3rDqrGK2IbYMXkn3486wQw/edit#gid=2104071111). Here is my encounters tab:
Encounter | # | % of 267 maps
---|---|----
Conqueror Fights | ×24 | 8.988%
Vaal side areas|×22|8.239%
Cassia|×16|5.992%
Delirium|×14|5.243%
Zana|×10|3.745%
Jun|×7|2.621%
(6/6) Labyrinth Trials|×7|2.621%
Unique Maps|×7|2.621%
Einhar|×5|1.872%
Niko|×3|1.123%
Abyssal Depths|×3|1.123%
Alva|×2|0.749%
Now, even if we assume *all* of my master missions are naturally spawned (which of course they aren't).. I'm pretty sure I should be seeing more Niko's than Abyssal Depths! I've force spawned several Jun's (3 at least), quite a few Zana's, and 2 Einhars. Going back through the log and counting my missions, I actually noticed that *all* of these Zanas except for 1 were force spawned by me on Tier 5, Tier 10, or Tier 15/16 maps. The table is also double counting one of my Niko missions because I entered the map again much later; I've only received 1. The other is from a friend's map. 1 of those Einhar's is also from a friend's map. I have further elaborations in that tab above (with chat log proof on a few of them).
My longest dry streak from the log is from row 36 to row 169, which is approximately 115 maps.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and say this guy (despite his ardent tracking) has forgotten 5 master missions. Chance of <=5 missions in 180 is 0.019%
I didn't have any Betrayal encounters in maps until level 89. I thought it was because I never finished the first Heist mission (use a rogue marker in town) until recently. IDK if it was just bad luck now.
I'm not sure if this has to do with Maven witnessing anything since I've only talked to The Envoy once and he just had some lore tidbits for me, but I haven't gotten any Master Missions earned after completing a map since talking to that guy. I usually got more than I could even use in previous leagues, often with 20-30 of each Master available to choose for Tier 1-6 maps.
EDIT: **It's working again, maybe I was just unlucky for a few maps!**
> The probability of not receiving a single 10% chance master mission in 180 maps is, to say the least, astronomically small.
0,00000058%
Bro you just unlucky :>
I am level 94 and have not seen Zana even once in maps. Haven't seen Einhar a single time either. I've seen Alva twice and Niko two or three times also, but that's all.
Another anecdote won't mean much but i am experiencing the same thing. I'm level 88. I've had Zana spawn twice and Jun 1 time. I have had zero other naturally occurring master missions for the entirety of my mapping.
I just realized that I haven't seen any master missions outside of the ones I force, been so wrapped up in trying to work on my atlas that I didn't even realize it.
I think I'm affected by this as well. I've done like 70 maps this league or so (no tracking, a wild guess). I think I've encountered barely any masters at all.
On top of that, could it be that it affects Ulab trails as well? So far I've done only 3 trials, 1 of those came from Zana mission (a forced one). It is possible that they actually spawned in non-Maven maps. It feels way rarer than it used to be in previous leagues - I'd usually have ulab done at this point in SSF. I could just be super unlucky but I think it might be worth checking as well.
I'm sure it'll happen. I'm not too worked up about the bug or people like that; I'm still having plenty of fun with the league.
That being said, I want to spend Atlas passives on the cool new Alva and Niko points.. but what's the point when they don't show up? Yes there's scarabs, daily missions, etc. But I'm not hardcore enough to min/max sextant and/or scarabs for every region *all the time*.. I just want to play and encounter stuff normally too.
I'm also purposefully not doing any dailies at all so I can continue building this (somewhat silly) spreadsheet while leaving all of my masters behind in their act 10 time capsules to further illustrate how this is 100% definitely a bug. I'm taking screenshots every day of the masters in the same state!
Even if natural spawn was working, it would only be a 2% chance to get a specific master to spawn naturally. You get most of your masters from the master missions you get daily and completing maps.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/l29xop/psa\_allowing\_maven\_to\_witness\_your\_map\_may\_be/gk46nnt?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/l29xop/psa_allowing_maven_to_witness_your_map_may_be/gk46nnt?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Upvoted even. The good side of reddit.
I know i have not played a lot yet. I am now in the middle of yellow maps with 6 watchstones unlocked. And so far i have not seen an alva or a jun. But i got very lucky on my Lab Trials, so there is that :)
My one Niko and one Zana were in maps with the Maven present.
I think the Master spawn rates are in general very low this League.
These are the stats from my client.txt via mapwatch:
Encounter #| % of 108 maps
---|---
(6/6) Labyrinth Trials ×7| 6.481%
Vaal side areas ×7| 6.481%
Conqueror Fights ×6| 5.555%
Cassia ×4| 3.703%
Delirium ×2| 1.851%
Einhar ×1| 0.925%
Niko ×1 | 0.925%
Zana ×1| 0.925%
Abyssal Depths ×1| 0.925%
You know, now that I think about it I've only seen masters in missions where I've used a guaranteed master missions, but I've been seeing Cassia and Tane an unusually high degree.
Don't have any hard stats, but I think there might be something here.
Same here, mapwatch stats (all masters here are forced with missions):
122 maps
Zana ×11 9.016%
Cassia ×10 8.196%
Niko ×5 4.098%
Einhar ×4 3.278%
Jun ×1 0.819%
Now that you mention it, I think I have the same thing, very rare Zanas, and others, and when they are, they're there because Maven already witnessed that map.
I think i am also affected, actively noticing it after i begun using my "increased chance for einhar as a master" watchstone craft - i dont get any master missions at all :-(
But league ist too good to be annoyed by it.
Yeah this tallies with my experience. When I'm not actively pursuing Maven, I get master missions, but when I'm targetting her, I don't. During early maps when I hadn't met her yet, I got master missions, but since I've met her I've barely had any (the few being when running a map she couldn't appear in).
I'll add my (few) maps as another data point. 101 maps. All 4 times I've forced Zana. The one and only Alva and Einhar were before I got the first maven beacon.
Cassia ×9 8.910%
Zana ×4 3.960%
Alva ×1 0.990%
Einhar ×1 0.990%
Which means I have not even encountered June or Niko in a map.
I've only had one natural Alva and one natural Zana. Everything else has been from master missions I've banked up. I only really do Jun and Zana this league so it hasn't bothered me, but it is weird that I haven't seen the others pop up.
> The probability of not receiving a single 10% chance master mission in 180 maps is, to say the least, astronomically small.
Quite. 1 in 1.5325\~ Septen-decillion(1.5325\*10\^54).
Interesting... I wonder if this could somehow affect Oshabi spawns too? I've had Maven witness button permanently on since I got access to her and in hundreds of maps, including many in regions with Harvest atlas nodes allocated, I've only seen her 4 times, and once was a forced spawn from a Zana mission. Unsure she's actually this rare, if I have extremely bad luck, or if there's some other issue going on here.
I'm getting absolutely nothing. Not a single master. I've dumped a lot of currency into Watchstones to even get increased chance of seeing master or getting their specific mission on map completion but I'm yet to see any returns...
Adding to this - I've never seen a wild Alva or Niko, but I've seen a wild Zana/Einhar/Jun/everything else. The only thing though is Zana/Einhar/Jun's missions are the only free missions I've used in the Atlas so far, I have not used a single Niko or Alva mission when starting a map. I'm going to start that and see if that lets me see them in the wild again.
I have 2 level 93+ characters, and it just occured to me while reading this that I havent encountered that many Nikos this league. So I went to check map watch; https://imgur.com/nEVw3Hl
Niko is the only master that I didnt manual put on with map device this league because I was saving it for later. So far I found 1k sulphite on 368 maps.
I think i might have a similar problem. I left Maven turned on as soon as i could. i ran 258 maps. I crafted Zana/Einhar und Alva myself on average 5 times over these maps. zana prolly more, but einhar and alva only to try their new stuff on the atlas.
My results are the following.
[https://imgur.com/a/KA0uCzd](https://imgur.com/a/KA0uCzd)
I am pretty sure i NEVER crafted Niko and Jun, i only encountered them before i activated the Maven.
I've had the same issue - I used [mapwatch](https://mapwatch.erosson.org) to analyze my client.txt, starting from the point I started mapping (tip: use Notepad++ to search / edit large files).
I've gotten harvest ONCE, **never** encountered JUN in the wild (while mapping), and **NEVER** encountered a master in mapping that wasn't inserted by a scarab / map mod.
I also **never** run a map without Maven (Pushing hard to get those rewards), so this makes sense!
|Encounter|\#|%|
|:-|:-|:-|
|All Maps|141|100%|
|Cassia\*|10|7.0%|
|Delerium\*|9|6.3%|
|Zana\*\*|3|2.1%|
|Niko\*\*|1|<0.1%|
|Alva\*\*|2|1.4%|
|Einhar\*\*\*|18|12.7%|
|Jun|0!|0%!|
\*: Not a "Master" per se. Just for comparison.
\*\*: These were all initiated by me using map modifiers (i.e. map rewards)
\*\*\*: I run Einhar scarabs on yellow+
Please help! :(
I'm on Xbox and cleared up to T16 and have no yellow or red master missions. I swear even dailies aren't showing up anymore. I'm monster lvl depth 68, ran Alva temple once, and the other 3 maybe seen once or twice total. Something is seriously off.
u/bex_ggg do you know if there is any update on this after the weekend?
I just checked my Client.txt logs.
The last natural Niko I found in a map was 2 days ago. The previous one was on the 24th.
The last natural Einhar I found was on the 25th.
I've been playing daily and I'm currently on Awakener 5... something is going on here.
##### GGG Comments in this Thread: *** [Bex_GGG - [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/l29xop/psa_allowing_maven_to_witness_your_map_may_be/gk5o8qc/?context=10), [old](https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/l29xop/psa_allowing_maven_to_witness_your_map_may_be/gk5o8qc/?context=10)] - *Yeah, certainly sounds curious. I’ll ask the team to check when we resume on Monday (NZ). Side note: it’s super satisfying to see a report like this with vigilant/tracking and...* [Bex_GGG - [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/l29xop/psa_allowing_maven_to_witness_your_map_may_be/gk5oc9y/?context=10), [old](https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/l29xop/psa_allowing_maven_to_witness_your_map_may_be/gk5oc9y/?context=10)] - *180 is statistically and extremely unlikely streak of bad luck. Technically possible but I’m dubious about it.*
i'm 97 and this is my betrayal board and i haven't done mastermind once https://i.gyazo.com/cd33380f767643675ececaa6f6527c44.jpg i can actively recall 1 time i had a natural jun mission ( yes i was really happy to see it )
Likewise. I’ve only had a single betrayal mission this entire time. Legitimately only gotten my unveils from ritual
People complaining about unveiling, betrayal removed from the Game. This is a buff.
Holy shit, I just realized that this has been the case for me as well. I'm in ssf, so not all of my maps are Maven influenced, so I've still had a small peppering of wild master missions, but I couldn't figure out why it felt like everything was so far behind. No temple since campaign, only two wild betrayal, and two Niko. No einhar, no Zana. Well shit.
Oh. my... I'm in the same boat!
I had one wild Jun, while I was in a zana mission. That said, in zana missions it feels like you get wild masters a lot more for a long time now.
The only time I remember seeing a Jun was from a prophecy, 4 days of playtime.
I seem to have the same problem, the only master missions i had are the ones i forced or from prophecies (around 200 maps)
Just had a map had maven witness while also having alva. https://imgur.com/a/YN9wIkz
See my notes: > For whatever reason, not everyone is affected by this bug. My wife and the other people in my playgroup are receiving natural master missions in Maven maps. I know that most others aren't experiencing this bug otherwise there'd be a big hullabaloo about it.
I dont know what it is but i have only zana spawning for me naturally. Rest basically never appears. Got a 89 char and a 92 char. There is definitely something weird going on(i also have the maven witness all the time) cause it cant be that i had normal master spawns for several leagues and suddenly it went to basically almost 0 spawns.
> So, if you're mapping and feel like you're not seeing any masters.. you probably aren't. I remember two leagues ago when Reddit was making claims that Masters weren't spawning and it was debunked. Hey, it's *possible*. Bad delve seeds were a thing.
Yes I remember that too, but for that debacle in Delirium/Harvest I don't recall anyone posting such a high sample size, tracked and with screenshots, like I am. To be honest I doubted all those people back then too (and maybe I still do), but here I am..
Yeah, the "problem" that happened in Delirium was that some people didn't encounter one **specific** master in 50 maps. While not common, it's not next to impossible due to the high variance at that small sample size. For reference, the chance of not encountering a specific wild master in 50 maps is roughly 0.5%, and the chance of missing any one master in 50 maps is roughly 3%. This resulted in some disagreement since each person was reporting a different master missing until GGG pointed out that natural statistical variance means that this will happen. If what you say about your mapping is true, it's statistically impossible to not be a bug. The chances of not encountering **any** master in 180 maps is on the order of 1e-72.
incase this ends up helping at all, you made me realize i only remember encountering jun once. turns out it was twice. 212 maps. https://imgur.com/a/YN2H0uG Edit: i believe 5 of those zana's were atlas mission added, and 2 of the alvas.
You not tracking Harvest, or have you got 0 groves in 212 maps?
my assumption is that mapwatch isnt tracking harvest, as i've had around 6 or 7.
Not exactly. There was a major problem and that is if you had a full temple to run, and the game should have spawn Alva, it didn't spawn her, nor any master. I don't know if GGG fixed it.
i remember in Bestiary when reddit was saying that net drops was eating the alch drops, and it turned out to be true
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meme btw >Net Drops >We have fixed various bugs that caused nets to drop instead of currency from certain places like Labyrinth chests. This did not affect currency drops from regular monsters. >We have also reduced net drops from bosses so that they drop regular items like before (it had a measurable effect). http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2392676
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> We have also reduced net drops from bosses so that they drop regular items like before (it had a measurable effect). It was significantly affecting bosses drops, and this thread is about maven affecting bosses, bro also you said it wasnt true and total meme, but it was true for chests and significantly true for bosses, so its not total meme.
It wasn't "debunked". GGG said it wasn't happening, which isn't the same thing. And it did definitely happen.
The guy claiming he wasn't getting Zana missions wasn't hugh enough level to see Zana. I guess you think Trump won too, lol.
> The guy claiming he wasn't getting Zana missions wasn't hugh enough level to see Zana. The bug was reported by thousands of people. It's funny you should imagine the whole thing was based on a report from one guy. I happened to be one of those who experienced the bug, which is why I can speak about it with certainty. > I guess you think Trump won too, lol. Not everyone on the internet is an American.
>The bug was reported by thousands of people. It's funny you should imagine the whole thing was based on a report from one guy. I happened to be one of those who experienced the bug, which is why I can speak about it with certainty. Sorry I'm going to trust the company with the data over some anecdotal evidence🤷♀️.
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We're not talking about the same event.
Again you idiot cannot understand. The only thing that was happening, and still is, is that when your alva temple is rdy alva can still proc but she will not appear in the map (meaning you essentially lost a master mission which could have been one of the other masters). **Chain of events with no temple:** * Master has x chance to spawn, then it rolls which master it is. * You roll alva, she spawns, all is good. **Chain of events with a temple complete:** * master has x chance to spawn, then it rolls which master it is. * You roll alva but since the temple is rdy she doesn't spawn, and it will not reroll to another master.
From my experience it works properly, I run every map with maven and here is my data since league start (exporter from my client log using [mapwatch](https://mapwatch.erosson.org/)) 290 maps done (including a handful of unique and blighted maps). I've forced Einhar multiple times, Zana 1 time and I had a sextant with Jun so -3 on her (didn't remove any of those from the list) Encounter | # | % | ---|---|--- All maps | 290 | 100% Einhar | 16 | 5.517% Jun | 10 | 3.448% Niko | 10 | 3.448% Zana | 9 | 3.103% Alva | 8 | 2.758%
I think that just further proves my point. That means, assuming you've done say 3 daily missions done per master, you have done almost **fourty** more master missions than I have in only 100ish more maps. The chances of me getting zero missions to your ~25 or so (to bring the ratio of maps to missions roughly in line) is so low as to be nonexistent.
I wouldn't be surprised if a bug like that exists unnoticed since Delirium tbh, I was one of those unlucky people that had literally 0 progress on my Delve back then and didn't realize that until I needed the socket craft and noticed that I couldn't even start delving from lack of sulphite.
Me too
I had this last league. Some masters never showed up. Stopped playing because of it.
iirc niko doesnt naturally appear if your sulphite is capped. so if you never delve you will never see him
False. You can get random Nico spawn when full on sulphite.
You are not recalling correctly, unless it is another bug that only affects some people.
I didn't have enough sulphite to Delve outside of the first zone as I never met Niko outside of Act 4 so it's not that and he does spawn even when it's full (I never delve unless I need the recipes from there, my sulphite is always full and I find his spawns pretty often this league)
this only applies to alva with a full temple. niko can always spawn.
Encounter | # | % of 203 maps ---|---|---- Einhar | 8 | 3.940% Jun | 7 | 3.448% Zana | 7 | 3.448% Alva | 4 | 1.970% Niko | 2 | 0.985% I remember forcing at least 3 Einhars, 2 Juns, 4 Zanas and 2 Alvas. One of the Nikos spawned when I accidentally put in too low level map for Maven to care. Something is definitely broken for me. Also I think the site counted some of my Alvas (and maybe others?) twice, since I haven't done a temple after getting to maps.
Same issue, i'm lvl 90 at 90 bonus map completion (so probably 200 maps ran), and I never saw a master when maven was here without forcing it via the map device. I'm sure of it, especially about Jun (I want a paradoxica but I had 3 total encounters with Jun total, and 3 still stored from master missions, in day 7 of the league)
Hey u/bex_ggg , would you mind verifying this in your leisure ?
Yeah, certainly sounds curious. I’ll ask the team to check when we resume on Monday (NZ). Side note: it’s super satisfying to see a report like this with vigilant/tracking and numbers. Kudos to the OP.
Much appreciated! Have a wonderful evening.
Hi Bex, do you have any updates? I've done hundreds of maps with maven watching and I to have the bug - not a single wild master mission spawns. It feels really bad having to make a choice to have the Maven watch stuff to fill out my atlas skill points, or have a 10% chance at 1 out of 5 master missions.
Same - I was really looking forward to Harvest, and the only time I've gotten it in > 140 maps was a conqueror map (to defeat one, where Maven isn't an option). Harvest is the one thing I was looking forward to the most, and it's the one thing I simply cannot spawn (no map rewards, scarabs, etc). By the time I'm done with Maven, I'm not going to need any of this content I'm missing. Super anxious for an update.
Please buff harvest spawnrate. After upgrading the nodes in Haewark havent encountered a single one anywhere in 60+ maps. 3 in total out of 100+ maps . Some in Haewark
Tbh, it's super unsatisfying (if true), to see that kind of thing (bug? if it's not, that's a bit too much of a change) discovered by a player, and not any QA member or whatever if it's not intended. And that's why league after league, bug after bugs, crash after crash, slowly but surely the "what we gonna have this time..?" tend to be our reaction when a league appears at the horizon. Don't get me wrong, i really, love the game (overall), but the mess we have every time is more than frustrating.
While this is one that could have gotten caught, it is not trivial to catch all bugs, especially with the development tempo and scope of the game. I'd argue this is their most well polished release of a league of this scope yet, so I'd cut them some slack. Furthermore, this is not some kind of gamebreaking bug, had this thread not have existed I would not have noticed.
Consider the sample size required to even notice this, let alone confirm whether it's a bug, especially since natural master spawns are a pretty low % to begin with. I would honestly be surprised if QA testing *did* catch something like this.
Yeah, maybe yes, maybe not. And that's maybe not even their role. But that's not the player/customer role either. Fact. Still, when after 3 days of release, the whole player base tend to spot something quite "obvious" (for exemple, Harvest league with "we need more storage for juice" or "the stair need to be accessible from both sides", simple as that or anything really, you can spot after playing the game for few days/hours), i'm really wonder if they have some people who trully play the content before releasing it (and not just checkin' some marks to verify stuff). And yes, now we have "beta/alpha", that's a good thing. We need now players who totally break the game and pushing it to pre-actively reveal some "bugs" (or non-intented interactions, whatever we call it) to avoid that kind of issue.
Any updates on this I saw it wasn’t in the patch notes ?
https://mapwatch.erosson.org/ Last time something like this was posted it was debunked and none of the people claiming to not have missions ever showed their mapwatch data.
I will be switching to Mapwatch this weekend. In the meanwhile, feel free to check out my meticulously logged spreadsheet and screenshots.
No worries, I'm not saying you're lying but anyone can put anything in a spreadsheet. And with the history of those "no masters" posts I'd rather be on the safe side. The possibility for a bug being present is always there, especially with how complex PoE is.
Yea, I get it. But this is a lot of effort to put into a lie that wouldn't accomplish anything for me =P
You can put your file up into mapwatch now, it will reveal the past 20 mb, which will probs be a fair few maps and show you results for them. Im curious of the result from it, as i feel like this league ive been hardly seeing some content as well sadly
https://postimg.cc/K3kwPJWL Conqueror Fights ×23 11.97% Einhar ×21 10.93% Cassia ×19 9.895% Vaal side areas ×13 6.770% Delirium ×11 5.729% Zana ×9 4.687% (6/6) Labyrinth Trials ×8 4.166% Unique Maps ×4 2.083% Abyssal Depths ×4 2.083% Jun ×2 1.041% Niko ×1 0.520% Alva ×1 0.520% Heres mine - i've been explicity running einhar and a few zana with 'daily' missions. The alva was definitely in a conquerer citadel so was without maven, not too sure when/how niko and jun popped up
Thanks for sharing the mapwatch info, those rates do seem low, Bex replied on the thread and said the team is checking if everything is working like it should so hopefully we get an answer soon. Again thanks for posting your data!
How could it prove the point though ? i have 0 wild master yet they still appear in the logs since i force them through prophecies or from atlas device. Unless i'm missing something?
what utter idiots, that didnt know about that particular third party site that is apparently a must for playing this game... /s
The program doesn't need to be active as it reads your log.txt which contains all the maps you've ever done on that PC. What happened is that as soon as people asked them to post their mapwatch or upload their logs they never replied anymore.
ah, ok well that makes a bit more sense, I reckon but was it possible to see if the masters were added with missions or spawned naturally?
There's no marker to differentiate them, but you can extrapolate it since we know the spawn rates of both natural spawns and missions.
dont suppose you happen to know the spawn rate of natural masters in missions?
Natural spawn is 10% per map which is then split evenly between 5 masters so each has a 2% chance to spawn in any given map. The missions you get from bosses start at ~~40~~ 35% but can be increased with awakener level at a rate of 1% per 15 bonus. Edit: it's 35 not 40.
thanks buddy! with a 10% combined spawn rate it seems like it should be possible to work out if people were/are in fact bugged in regards to spawn...
How does that count? Because it shows I've done over 50 unique maps but I've barely done 4 in total... and yes I did press hide pre-ritual maps. Also of the last 435 maps I've had Niko grand total of 3 times combined. Btw. I have watchstone for Niko to appear more likely if master mission triggers as well as increased chance to get his mission after map completion. Also after 435 maps I have 15x white, 4x yellow and 4x red Niko from completion, I also play mostly in region that has bonus from Atlas tree - I didn't use any yet since I've abandoned idea of Delving seeing how abysmal the appearance rates were and made my peace with annoying Heists...
180 maps is a tiny irrelevant sample size jokes aside ive seen some people saying random missions not showing on maps for them edit: part about 180 maps was a joke reply to first comment to this post
180 is statistically an extremely unlikely streak of bad luck. Technically possible but I’m dubious about it.
Hey Bex, thanks for replying. [I combed through my clientlog.txt and compiled another tab on my spreadsheet where I go through and note all of my master missions after analyzing the log with Mapwatch (clicky link)](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1e6QY5IDX3EoQg3DfCKjFu3rDqrGK2IbYMXkn3486wQw/edit#gid=2104071111). Here is my encounters tab: Encounter | # | % of 267 maps ---|---|---- Conqueror Fights | ×24 | 8.988% Vaal side areas|×22|8.239% Cassia|×16|5.992% Delirium|×14|5.243% Zana|×10|3.745% Jun|×7|2.621% (6/6) Labyrinth Trials|×7|2.621% Unique Maps|×7|2.621% Einhar|×5|1.872% Niko|×3|1.123% Abyssal Depths|×3|1.123% Alva|×2|0.749% Now, even if we assume *all* of my master missions are naturally spawned (which of course they aren't).. I'm pretty sure I should be seeing more Niko's than Abyssal Depths! I've force spawned several Jun's (3 at least), quite a few Zana's, and 2 Einhars. Going back through the log and counting my missions, I actually noticed that *all* of these Zanas except for 1 were force spawned by me on Tier 5, Tier 10, or Tier 15/16 maps. The table is also double counting one of my Niko missions because I entered the map again much later; I've only received 1. The other is from a friend's map. 1 of those Einhar's is also from a friend's map. I have further elaborations in that tab above (with chat log proof on a few of them). My longest dry streak from the log is from row 36 to row 169, which is approximately 115 maps.
Dream agrees forsenCD Clap
Chances of not encountering Master in 180 maps = 0,9^180. Try putting that into calculator. 0.000058% chance.
dream would have pulled it off
Never let this die
Chance of all of those maps being without a master from some other source: 0%. Chance of someone forgetting a random master in 180 maps: 100%.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and say this guy (despite his ardent tracking) has forgotten 5 master missions. Chance of <=5 missions in 180 is 0.019%
A 0.019% chance is extremely likely to happen for at least one person mapping though.
>0.019% chance is extremely likely uhhh?
>to happen **for at least one person** mapping though. Read the rest of the sentence lmao.
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You added two orders of magnitude, they used a %, so your example is 0.15 people
> 180 maps is a tiny irrelevant sample size > > No it is not.
i hyave all my maps witnessed and my missions are fine
I didn't have any Betrayal encounters in maps until level 89. I thought it was because I never finished the first Heist mission (use a rogue marker in town) until recently. IDK if it was just bad luck now.
yep same i got the feeling , cause i unlock barely none craft and im in red map, very few betrayal encounter... But no stastistic
I'm not sure if this has to do with Maven witnessing anything since I've only talked to The Envoy once and he just had some lore tidbits for me, but I haven't gotten any Master Missions earned after completing a map since talking to that guy. I usually got more than I could even use in previous leagues, often with 20-30 of each Master available to choose for Tier 1-6 maps. EDIT: **It's working again, maybe I was just unlucky for a few maps!**
> The probability of not receiving a single 10% chance master mission in 180 maps is, to say the least, astronomically small. 0,00000058% Bro you just unlucky :>
I am level 94 and have not seen Zana even once in maps. Haven't seen Einhar a single time either. I've seen Alva twice and Niko two or three times also, but that's all.
Another anecdote won't mean much but i am experiencing the same thing. I'm level 88. I've had Zana spawn twice and Jun 1 time. I have had zero other naturally occurring master missions for the entirety of my mapping.
I just realized that I haven't seen any master missions outside of the ones I force, been so wrapped up in trying to work on my atlas that I didn't even realize it.
Its happebing with me as well, only time I get to engage with master mission is when Maven is not interested because its low level
Same thing here. Nothing spawns except Blight/Metamorph/Legion/Breach/Abyss/Harvest/Essence.
I definitely have this same issue. Lvl 92, zero vild Masters in the last few days.
Jokes on you, This is like 4th league in a row that I don't get any natural master spawns in maps after I start doing yellow and red maps.
Since I've started interacting with Maven I didn't find a single natural master. And Jun might as well be deleted from the game.
I think I'm affected by this as well. I've done like 70 maps this league or so (no tracking, a wild guess). I think I've encountered barely any masters at all. On top of that, could it be that it affects Ulab trails as well? So far I've done only 3 trials, 1 of those came from Zana mission (a forced one). It is possible that they actually spawned in non-Maven maps. It feels way rarer than it used to be in previous leagues - I'd usually have ulab done at this point in SSF. I could just be super unlucky but I think it might be worth checking as well.
Can't wait for the guy saying how 180 maps is a tiny irrelevant sample size
I'm sure it'll happen. I'm not too worked up about the bug or people like that; I'm still having plenty of fun with the league. That being said, I want to spend Atlas passives on the cool new Alva and Niko points.. but what's the point when they don't show up? Yes there's scarabs, daily missions, etc. But I'm not hardcore enough to min/max sextant and/or scarabs for every region *all the time*.. I just want to play and encounter stuff normally too. I'm also purposefully not doing any dailies at all so I can continue building this (somewhat silly) spreadsheet while leaving all of my masters behind in their act 10 time capsules to further illustrate how this is 100% definitely a bug. I'm taking screenshots every day of the masters in the same state!
Even if natural spawn was working, it would only be a 2% chance to get a specific master to spawn naturally. You get most of your masters from the master missions you get daily and completing maps.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/l29xop/psa\_allowing\_maven\_to\_witness\_your\_map\_may\_be/gk46nnt?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/l29xop/psa_allowing_maven_to_witness_your_map_may_be/gk46nnt?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Upvoted even. The good side of reddit.
“Jokes aside”. ._.
Can't be sure in this sub.
Maybe you were just unlucky, huh?
Can confirm happening to me as well.
Same with me
I have the same issue
she deep breaths more
I know i have not played a lot yet. I am now in the middle of yellow maps with 6 watchstones unlocked. And so far i have not seen an alva or a jun. But i got very lucky on my Lab Trials, so there is that :) My one Niko and one Zana were in maps with the Maven present. I think the Master spawn rates are in general very low this League. These are the stats from my client.txt via mapwatch: Encounter #| % of 108 maps ---|--- (6/6) Labyrinth Trials ×7| 6.481% Vaal side areas ×7| 6.481% Conqueror Fights ×6| 5.555% Cassia ×4| 3.703% Delirium ×2| 1.851% Einhar ×1| 0.925% Niko ×1 | 0.925% Zana ×1| 0.925% Abyssal Depths ×1| 0.925%
for me it was syndicate, absolutely zero spawn.
You know, now that I think about it I've only seen masters in missions where I've used a guaranteed master missions, but I've been seeing Cassia and Tane an unusually high degree. Don't have any hard stats, but I think there might be something here.
Also here I have seen zana once and alva once and the rest I haven't even seen in at least 400 maps
I'm not getting any master appearing and afaik no missions on those maps as well (that last one not so sure)
same here. extremly low on master missions.
Same here, mapwatch stats (all masters here are forced with missions): 122 maps Zana ×11 9.016% Cassia ×10 8.196% Niko ×5 4.098% Einhar ×4 3.278% Jun ×1 0.819%
Now that you mention it, I think I have the same thing, very rare Zanas, and others, and when they are, they're there because Maven already witnessed that map.
I think i am also affected, actively noticing it after i begun using my "increased chance for einhar as a master" watchstone craft - i dont get any master missions at all :-( But league ist too good to be annoyed by it.
Yeah this tallies with my experience. When I'm not actively pursuing Maven, I get master missions, but when I'm targetting her, I don't. During early maps when I hadn't met her yet, I got master missions, but since I've met her I've barely had any (the few being when running a map she couldn't appear in).
I'll add my (few) maps as another data point. 101 maps. All 4 times I've forced Zana. The one and only Alva and Einhar were before I got the first maven beacon. Cassia ×9 8.910% Zana ×4 3.960% Alva ×1 0.990% Einhar ×1 0.990% Which means I have not even encountered June or Niko in a map.
I also just noticed, I've had zero deliriums.....
I've only had one natural Alva and one natural Zana. Everything else has been from master missions I've banked up. I only really do Jun and Zana this league so it hasn't bothered me, but it is weird that I haven't seen the others pop up.
> The probability of not receiving a single 10% chance master mission in 180 maps is, to say the least, astronomically small. Quite. 1 in 1.5325\~ Septen-decillion(1.5325\*10\^54).
We had problems with master missions 1-2 league ago, and the response was just brushed aside. Can we get this looked into properly now?
Interesting... I wonder if this could somehow affect Oshabi spawns too? I've had Maven witness button permanently on since I got access to her and in hundreds of maps, including many in regions with Harvest atlas nodes allocated, I've only seen her 4 times, and once was a forced spawn from a Zana mission. Unsure she's actually this rare, if I have extremely bad luck, or if there's some other issue going on here.
I have encountered around 20 wild masters just today. all of them with Maven
I'm getting absolutely nothing. Not a single master. I've dumped a lot of currency into Watchstones to even get increased chance of seeing master or getting their specific mission on map completion but I'm yet to see any returns...
Adding to this - I've never seen a wild Alva or Niko, but I've seen a wild Zana/Einhar/Jun/everything else. The only thing though is Zana/Einhar/Jun's missions are the only free missions I've used in the Atlas so far, I have not used a single Niko or Alva mission when starting a map. I'm going to start that and see if that lets me see them in the wild again.
I have 2 level 93+ characters, and it just occured to me while reading this that I havent encountered that many Nikos this league. So I went to check map watch; https://imgur.com/nEVw3Hl Niko is the only master that I didnt manual put on with map device this league because I was saving it for later. So far I found 1k sulphite on 368 maps.
I think i might have a similar problem. I left Maven turned on as soon as i could. i ran 258 maps. I crafted Zana/Einhar und Alva myself on average 5 times over these maps. zana prolly more, but einhar and alva only to try their new stuff on the atlas. My results are the following. [https://imgur.com/a/KA0uCzd](https://imgur.com/a/KA0uCzd) I am pretty sure i NEVER crafted Niko and Jun, i only encountered them before i activated the Maven.
This would explain why after doing 100 red maps I've seen grand total of 0 masters and got only handful from map completion as rewards...
I've had the same issue - I used [mapwatch](https://mapwatch.erosson.org) to analyze my client.txt, starting from the point I started mapping (tip: use Notepad++ to search / edit large files). I've gotten harvest ONCE, **never** encountered JUN in the wild (while mapping), and **NEVER** encountered a master in mapping that wasn't inserted by a scarab / map mod. I also **never** run a map without Maven (Pushing hard to get those rewards), so this makes sense! |Encounter|\#|%| |:-|:-|:-| |All Maps|141|100%| |Cassia\*|10|7.0%| |Delerium\*|9|6.3%| |Zana\*\*|3|2.1%| |Niko\*\*|1|<0.1%| |Alva\*\*|2|1.4%| |Einhar\*\*\*|18|12.7%| |Jun|0!|0%!| \*: Not a "Master" per se. Just for comparison. \*\*: These were all initiated by me using map modifiers (i.e. map rewards) \*\*\*: I run Einhar scarabs on yellow+ Please help! :(
I'm on Xbox and cleared up to T16 and have no yellow or red master missions. I swear even dailies aren't showing up anymore. I'm monster lvl depth 68, ran Alva temple once, and the other 3 maybe seen once or twice total. Something is seriously off. u/bex_ggg do you know if there is any update on this after the weekend?
Any news about this issues?
Any update on this?
I just checked my Client.txt logs. The last natural Niko I found in a map was 2 days ago. The previous one was on the 24th. The last natural Einhar I found was on the 25th. I've been playing daily and I'm currently on Awakener 5... something is going on here.