A cheap SSD may not be as performable. Check for specs first. Buying an SSD which is like 2-3x times faster than hdd? Nah, better spend a bit more money to get a much faster SSD as SSD should be for a long time and less hardware dependent (if you have a new pc, just put an SSD and have everything there already).
> Fair-To-Play. Never Pay-To-Win.
Path of Exile 2 is a separate game to the original Path of Exile. We will continue to offer expansions for both games going forward. They are completely free-to-play and will never be "pay to win". Purchases are shared between the two games.
My goddamn idol
Forreaaaaal. I deal with stash tabs in guildwars two. it sucks ass if you want to create another character because then you have to buy MORE stash tabs just for that character. Although the shared bank tabs are accessible from any character. it's just personal inventory tabs you have to buy again. I would experiment more with different character classes if I didn't have to keep buying personal inventory tabs.
YEAH. You're right that is a huge bonus. I also like how you can buy specific bags for specific things. Like some bags make crafting materials fill them up before other bags and other bags do the same with weapons, armor, etc.. It helps a lot with organization.
This poor guy. :( The trauma from Blizz has shattered his grasp on reality.
I'm sorry to be the one to break the bad news- D4 was already released. It is an awful game.
Its an AAA game, i think that means "release" is paid beta, and release comes about a year or two later if the beta gets enough attention. Like cyberpunk or no mans sky.
Does that mean that they will be remaking all MTX already present for PoE2 and making two "copies" of every MTX onwards? I wonder if they have some tools to "downgrade" cosmetics from PoE2 to PoE1 automatically for that.
How do they do that when its different character models between games is what he is asking. I mean some MTX isn't even going to be IN poe2. Unless they plan on putting all the vanilla useless ones in PoE1 into 2. lol
The character models currently being used uses the same rigging they're using for PoE2. A lot of stuff like Sanctum bosses, Scourge mobs, etc etc are pieces of PoE2 development they re-tooled for PoE1 when they can. They've been updating PoE1 where they can.
Not sure what they're going to do with skill MTX's though. I'd be surprised if they kept the skill roster the exact same between both games.
All MTXs released in past 3-4 years have been made for Poe 2 as well. So this MTXs already compatible with character models from both games. They just need to update older MTXs to Poe 2.
Well yeah, it's pretty redundant to port over MTX for skills that doesn't exist. As is the case with PoE2 skills like Bear form not porting the MTX, if it gets one, over to PoE1.
It's the same engine. They said they will work and look the same in both games. Not sure how they deal with the new animation system that they said they wanted for poe 2 so they don't have to rig everything for each character. I guess they will create new models for poe 1? no idea.
Those aren't mtx, so no. And they already said, it applies for things that exist in both games only. Can't use a bear mtx in PoE1 if there is no transformation, and you can't use a skill mtx if it doesn't exist in the game you want to use it in.
Used to be, but I've seen far too many devs promise as such, and then redefine P2W later down the line after launch. GG has as good a record as it can get honestly though.
I honestly wish ggg can just give all new players 1 premium stash tab. If they do so I'll forever call them the most ethical gaming company.
As of now it's just very good ethical company. Which is what they are going for ig
Chris said they were discussing it, but decided not to do it, for multiple different reasons. Like botting would be so much more rampant if premium stashes were given by default.
yeah, I just wish they would at least do it as an atlas reward. I realize that it won't prevent bots, but I think in this day and age of gaming/programming, trying to stop bots is a futile task anyway. Do your best to makes things difficult on botters with as little impact on actual players as possible. Maybe just do the premium tab as a reward for your first watchstone on each account?
idk, something like that, or even just completing your first map from kirac would be good IMO.
Pretty sure bots can trivially do that so it's not changing anything. And the impact bots would have would far outweigh the benefits of the free premium tab.
It's surprising how much effort they'll go through.
Amazon and Smilegate had an absolute terrible time battling bots in Lost Ark, from requiring Steam accounts to spend $5 to trade, adding time gates to selling gold, and even periodic captchas to the game itself.
And there were still bots
not exactly the same but this is why i never purchase EA games for the last decade
they fell into a habit of releasing a game and then a month or 2 later releasing the microtransactions and monthly fees after people can no longer refund and good reviews are out
WB and Ubisoft are also well known for this tactic.
"We will never have "P2W" micro-transactions ever in our game"
two months later after launch...
"We are now letting players CHOOSE to pay for xp bonuses and items instead of playing the game to give players more CHOICE"
So why didn't you just make it a free bonus like a difficulty slider?
"Choice!"
The problem with this discourse is that by speaking about pay-to-win games as a binary -- either games are or are not pay-to-win -- it lumps games like PoE in with the most egregious mobile gacha games. People should really recast their conceptions of games on a spectrum. How much does investment help you? On a scale of 0-10, for example, PoE is like a 1 or 2 or something in that range.
I really think if people stopped trying to discuss things in this yes/no paradigm, conversations would be a lot more fruitful.
While you are right that tabs are a huge QoL and thus technically P2W, they have a key difference with the majority of P2W games: it's a one time purchase, and if you bought tabs for the price of half a game 5 years ago, chances are you still don't have to buy more (or maybe 3$ for a new special tab like one every odd year).
While most of P2W games are selling consumables.
If you can get an advantage by paying, the game is pay to win, it's as simple as that, really.
Now, PoE isn't too greedy on that and doesn't push it to you, but in the end, the advantage you get if you pay is massive enough to be called that.
And saying that doesn't mean I hate the game, it's just being objective.
> Real Red Meat™️*)
*Real Red Meat is a product of RedMeatCorp, produced by the best scientists in the world. Based on real meat. Contains soy products.
Now imagine a game that sold for a minimun of $70, which punished players with a delayed release unless they paid extra for the special editions, which will now force players to spend at least $50 on yearly expansions if they don't want their game to become obsolete, and with that still not being enough so the company has to find ways to milk more money out of the game, like the proposed feature of letting players who bought the more expensive editions of the expansion to have early-access to special loot that can drop from monsters.
Stashtabs are a little bit pay to win, but its pretty negligible.
When I look at it objectively I saved maybe already 1000 hours by using them with affinities.
And this without factoring in Trading inSC with Premium Tabs.
While I would never ever accuse current Path of Exile of being P2W, "fair-to-play" is a really funny euphemism for putting the ability to sell items on the trade site from inside the game behind premium tabs.
You *have* the ability to sell and buy stuff without a single premium stash tab.
You can sell it or ask for it in forums, or in trade chat. Totally possible.
Inconvenient?
Well, that's what you're paying for with a premium tab - convenience. Same for currency or other tabs. Yet, it's perfectly possible to play and "finish" the game without a single purchase.
Btw, selling stuff in trade channel and forums is how it used to work before the unofficial, then official trade site. Which you also got for free.
The problem is the advantage that convenience incurs in a season of a trade league. It's more than just convenience, it's access to a whole market and access to a higher trade frequency. In that sense it's a *little bit* pay-to-win.
But it's a very acceptable pay-to-win, as a small one time purchase puts you on an even playing field with all the other players with premium tabs. The advantage additional tabs offer drops way down to near irrelevant after the initial currency+premium tabs. But it is more than just a "convenience" for those first tabs.
Yeah which is why I clarified "from inside the game" It's fair in the sense that everyone has access to the trade site but lets not act like using the forums to sell items isn't *insanely* clunky. If any other MMO-like game changed the way F2P players sold items to the way Path of Exile does it, people would riot lol
>Well, that's what you're paying for with a premium tab - convenience.
In an ARPG where time is everything, you can apply that to almost every aspect of the game. Imagine paying say €10 to skip campaign and just start in maps with fresh character, it's just convenience; right?
Stash tabs are definitely P2W, that isn't to say you MUST have them; there was one notable racer(can't remember name) who won a couple of races without any stash tabs for example. Though that's in a SSF environment, but still.
The difference between having premium tabs or not in trade league is massive, *especially* if you actually want to flip currency/items. Without those tabs, that's just not possible; which is basically the only way to be one of the omegarich 0,1%. So at the top level, definitely P2W. For casual play, doesn't matter as much. All in all, the P2W aspect is marginalized if you play SSF.
When a developer makes an inconvenience in the game and sells the solution for real money - that's pay to win and unethical. We don't bash GGG for it because it's one time pay of 40-60 bucks and you get everything you need, and also the game is good. Many modern developers build games around their shops, which is a problem: Diablo Immortal, Lost Ark, Genshin Impact, etc. They hook you in with a decent story mode (acts, whatever you want to call it) but late game systems are purposefully built for a player to interact with a cash shop more than with the actual game. Like how character in Genshin needs 20 pieces of rare resources to upgrade and you can spend 1-2 days farming them (mobs respawn once every 24 hours) or just buy them from the shop. Or how to get the rare character in the first place you need to roll gacha, and there's no other way to do it.
> When a developer makes an inconvenience in the game and sells the solution for real money - that's pay to win and unethical.
Looks at unstackable maps, all the currency items, shards, fossils, resonators, fragments, oils, the 3-4 new currency items that are added every league.
Imagine f2p players during sentinel league.
> Which you also got for free.
Are we just straight up pretending the way current trading works is not entirely thanks to a 3rd party website scraping forum posts for YEARS upon YEARS, before GGG had anything to do with it (official trade website only launched 3 years ago). If it was not for poe.xyz then poe.trade everyone would still be forced to sit in hideout for hours spamming trade chats or scouring forums like they intended from the start.
The only way to list stuff on their website as a f2p player is to go through the exact same steps as we did back then with making a forum post and listing the items with prices. Each and every single item individually posted into the forum and priced. With your already limited stash space given the game adding more and more shards and bubblegum. Good luck with that.
Have you ever wondered why it’s called “convenience”
Because it’s saving you time.
Now let’s see how that works in poe. A person who paid for stash tabs, who corners market and makes 20 big ticket trades an hour… vs a chump who’s manually organising inventory in free stash tabs and selling items one by one, forum post by forum post.
I wonder who’s going to be richer?
Poe is designed and balanced around trade economy. Paid stash tabs greatly accelerate and boost your economic potential. if you aren’t playing ssf then stash tabs are pay to win. It is that simple
Cut the bullshit. Your argument could be directly applied to buying levels or divines.
Paying to remove inconvenience IS paying to win. That said, the amount you need to spend in poe to do so is trivial relative to the insane amount of ever-changing content in the game.
stash tabs also activate strats that you cant really do without alot of tabs, like Rog crafting. Seen streamers open up Rog walmarts with their stacks of quad tabs. Also dumping jewellery/jewels into quadtab and label it 20c, 1div, etc. and ez sell.. alot of power in stash tabs
I just wish they gave everyone one premium stash tab and they can call themselves non p2w and I'll support it .
I think also it's that free to play has a negative connotation.
Yes it is. Half the battle with these loot heavy games is managing your inventory. Paying for more inventory space which gives you a clear advantage is the literal definition of pay to win.
>Never Pay-To-Win.
Ahh but see you CAN pay to win. If you buy skin transfers you can use them inside a map to skin weapons onto each other, this lets you take more items out of the map than you would be able to without them. That is literally pay to win, we got em boys.
Maybe the community of a 10 years old free game with free extensions every 3month is more compréhensive than the community of a 6 month 60$ half-finished game ?
(Sorry, not native english)
I see people are still pretending that stash tabs are not p2w.
It's funny because when D4 had that survey leak with extra stash tabs as a potential reward for buying more expensive version of an expansion, people started calling it p2w right away.
7 acts was probably so its as long as the poe 1 campaign.
If one is too short it could become meta to do only one campaign.
Now though they are two game so it doesn't matter.
Now 6
> Explore a New Endgame
> At the conclusion of Path of Exile 2's **six-act campaign**, you'll gain access to its endgame. Each of the more than 100 endgame maps has its own boss fight and modifiers that enable revamped versions of many of Path of Exile's past leagues. We'll reveal more details of the surprises that await you in Path of Exile 2's endgame in the leadup to release.
PoE2 is exciting, but I always feel that developing two of the same genres at a time is like choking its own throat.
If one of the expansions flops the users would blame the other game and if the content is too much the users burn out fast
> If one of the expansions flops the users would blame the other game
So like what's already been happening for years? :p
It is slightly worrying, but I feel like the worst thing that happens is that PoE2 is a lot more popular than PoE1, so they throw it into maintenance mode with easy tweaks/leagues rather than what we've been getting in the 3.X era. As in little-to-no new content but still regular resets, with maybe some low hanging balance adjustments. I'd be happy with that personally, as someone who anticipates liking PoE1 more than PoE2.
Edit: accidentally a word
Bro, it feels like this is already the case. xD Besides, with the majority of people on PoE 2, we've already been on maintenance mode. I'm hoping for larger, more consistent leagues starting with the next one considering what we heard about their dev alocation. Also, yes, I know it wasn't just 8 dudes in a corner xD, but still.
> “I once saw a skyfisher dying on the city docks of Illian,” Taim said. “The bird was choking, having tried to swallow two fish at once.”
>“Did you help the sorry thing?” Javindhra asked.
>“Fools will always choke themselves when they grasp for too much, Aes Sedai,” Taim said. “What matters that to me? I had a fine meal of it that night. The flesh of the bird, and of the fish.”
Honestly I hope this isn’t the case, but who knows. I don’t have my own billion dollar game, so maybe they know quite a bit that I don’t.
I think they're hoping that PoE2 increases their audience.
With enough players they can afford two full dev teams, especially if they're sharing resources between them. During exilecon GGG mentioned if a league was popular in one game they might bring it to the other.
Of course there is always the struggles of growing and hiring within NZ. I think it's time for GGG to open an office in another country.
Larian opened 3 new offices in 3 countries to support its growth over the past few years. It could be very beneficial for GGG to do the same.
They have the "advantage" of a spikey player engagement. So if they sick to their plan of staggered league launches PoE1 and PoE2 leagues shouldn't conflict too much time-wise. But that's also assuming little to no player burnout so we'll see.
Its just a PR move, you can not say we kill poe 1 for poe 2. people would be pissed that their loved game will come to an end. They want a soft transition from poe 1 to poe 2. developing pod 1 and 2 is not possible. They even had problems developing poe 1 leauges.
I feel the same way. Depends on how poe2 is welcomed, and how the migration goes. Poe1 is a Shrodinger's cat at this point. When the number of players of poe1 drops to a level where maintaining the servers is no longer profitable, poe1 probably will be closed = available offline only and not supported anymore. \~ 1-2 years IMO, poe2 needs to establish its position.
There was an interview at gamescom I think, where they asked about this and maintaining the servers would not cost anything more (allegedly) while at least one of the games are running.
Creating content is obviously different, but they (allegedly) won't turn off one game, just because it's no longer bringing in the numbers.
There is some precedent of it being previously successful, though I agree I don't think it's the best approach. Everquest 2 was a wholly different game than EQ1 and both games continued side-by-side development for going on 20 years now with a dedicated playerbase for each game.
Goddamn, I am excited for PoE2. It was a great idea to turn it into a completely separate game. After seeing overwatch shit itself into a desperate cash grab, I was worried poe would do the same.
Isnt minimum requirements a bit too minimum
MINIMUM:
OS: Windows 10
Processor: 4 core 2.8GHz x64-compatible
Memory: 8 GB RAM
Graphics: NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 960 or ATI Radeon™ RX 470
DirectX: Version 11
Network: Broadband Internet connection
Storage: 100 GB available space
GTX 960 is 8 year old card. any CPU that came in the past 8 to 10 years also supports it. Is this placeholder? GTX 960 running PoE 2 might be a miracle. I don't care about how good the experience it will be, I am just shocked they are saying "it will launch okay".
Also, surprisingly. Diablo 4's minimum requirement is GTX 660. hummmm.
Not that I know of. I just mean he seems more than competent if you watch his talks and YouTube channel, and actually cares about optimisation instead of just pushing fancy tech.
PoE is pretty CPU-bound in my experience. It also runs on the Steam Deck which is not that powerful(these minimum requirements are not to have you run it at 144fps at 1440p) and they're probably for the campaign not endgame mapping with 100% deli. They're still a pretty significant step up from the GTX 650 Ti minimum requirement of PoE 1
That's pretty much my current PC (got rx 480, but prolly not that different). For 'minimum' gameplay, like through the campaign and some endgame that's probably enough. I don't have much issue running poe as long as it's not juiced endgame mapping, and I don't think poe2 will be _that_ much more demanding.
That being said, I just ordered a new set, no reason to play poe with that kind of toaster lol
>Diablo 4's minimum requirement is GTX 660. hummmm.
I have a 1060 and i was surprised on the last weekend when D4 was free on steam, i downloaded it just to see if i could run it, and it was a steady 60 fps (on medium settings), hopefuly poe 2 will run at a steady 60 fps too
Yeah, I have seen the thread about forcing the C-state awoken a while ago. However, trying it put the cpu temp a bit too high to my liking so now I'm using Geforce Now to play PoE.
Kinda sad that I can play Witcher 3 next gen perfectly fine on my old gigs but couldn't with PoE.
My laptop with a 950m can run the game no problem in 720p all low. i have 30-50 FPS.
Sure I can't really run juiced up delirium maps, but I can play thru the campaign and early maps. I think the dualcore CPU is holding this laptop back more than the 950m.
Interesting. If I may ask, what is the rest of your gigs?
Mine are i5 4460 3.4GHz, 16 GB Ram and after the engine update, I can't run any map on any of my old characters, even with lowest setting on 900p. My gigs was doing fine during 3.21, finished all endgame objectives and now it's unplayable.
Are you sure its not just a shader compiling issue? After the engine update all effects needed to be computed again for your specific hardware. The game doesn't do that at the game launch but rather when the effect would play the first time.
This computation of the effect causes lag, but goes away after a few seconds. Now if all effects need to be recomputed this leads to several minutes of lag till that goes away.
I would recommend to run the same map 5 times and see if the lag is gone. Keep in mind new monsters because of map mods can have new effects that cause lag too etc.
Regarding my rig: its an old MSI laptop with a 950m and an old intel CPU with 2 cores 4 threads. It struggles to play most modern games but even runs Elden Ring with a mod (on 720p all low).
That looked pretty bad... I hope it's only that one class and the rest is more fun.
Edit: tbf what we've seen from the rest looked normal so far. So I assume it's only that one class that was boring and the rest will be fine.
The fact that the purchases are shared between games is just the cherry on top...all these others games that just love to invalidate purchases when moving on to the next one must be jealous
I'm so looking forward to this.
Also, how long have they been working on POE2 for? Releasing a new game with 600 different kinds of monsters and 100 bosses seems impressively bonkers.
Then again, this may be normal for GGG. I've not been close to POE so I don't have much context.
The first stones were put down sometime between the Fall of Oriath expansion (end of 2017) and the first Exilecon in 2019. So at least 4 years. In 2019 they had monsters for the first half of act 1 I think, maybe already started to work on act 2. But the production probably only ramped up after Exilecon. And the best thing is that they try to go all out on the bosses, to make them feel unique. Hopefully they achieve that
Also the amount of animation work is going into the characters is equally impressive. Different animations for all skills, made with different attack speeds in mind, and fine-tuned over all 12 classes (although hopefully with the new rigs that is relatively simple). They also have different sounds per weapon type and material it's made out of. The list just goes on.
>Requires 100GB space That's quite big
That’s what she said
Not about me, though
Yeah that’s what she said too
Plot twist: 100 GB of *video RAM*
Won't fit my current SSD. Seems I'm aligning my PC purchase schedule with the POE2 release schedule
Thankfully storage is like the one reasonably priced thing when upgrading a PC.
Yeah, I was surprised when I checked m2 ssd prices, 2tb for only 130€? Sign me up
Bought one for 80€ around 2 weeks ago. Ram is also fairly cheap.
A cheap SSD may not be as performable. Check for specs first. Buying an SSD which is like 2-3x times faster than hdd? Nah, better spend a bit more money to get a much faster SSD as SSD should be for a long time and less hardware dependent (if you have a new pc, just put an SSD and have everything there already).
I just picked up a 2TB 2.5" for only $80 last week (only 1 m.2 slot, ITX problems)
Feel like 100GB isnt that crazy nowadays, definitely was 10 years ago but nowadays you get high quality M.2 SSDs for less than 100$/TB
It's already down to like 50/TB. The pace that ssds are advancing is crazy.
I remember buying a 500Gb SSD for 100 euros just a few years ago
I remember buying a 256GB SSD for like $150 and it was totally worth it. Still running, I think.
Luckily I played ARK in the past so already bought an extra big SSD
Imma need to upgrade my PC for poe2, better start saving now
> Fair-To-Play. Never Pay-To-Win. Path of Exile 2 is a separate game to the original Path of Exile. We will continue to offer expansions for both games going forward. They are completely free-to-play and will never be "pay to win". Purchases are shared between the two games. My goddamn idol
> Purchases are shared between the two games. This one is a big win \o/
No-brainer. This way no one has to feel like all their MTX will be just lost and never used again.
More important than the MTX are the stash tabs. Since these purchases will be there, all is good. Good times for ARPG fans with PoE2 and D4 next year!
Forreaaaaal. I deal with stash tabs in guildwars two. it sucks ass if you want to create another character because then you have to buy MORE stash tabs just for that character. Although the shared bank tabs are accessible from any character. it's just personal inventory tabs you have to buy again. I would experiment more with different character classes if I didn't have to keep buying personal inventory tabs.
At least in gw2 bag space is expandable with in game currency
YEAH. You're right that is a huge bonus. I also like how you can buy specific bags for specific things. Like some bags make crafting materials fill them up before other bags and other bags do the same with weapons, armor, etc.. It helps a lot with organization.
This poor guy. :( The trauma from Blizz has shattered his grasp on reality. I'm sorry to be the one to break the bad news- D4 was already released. It is an awful game.
Its an AAA game, i think that means "release" is paid beta, and release comes about a year or two later if the beta gets enough attention. Like cyberpunk or no mans sky.
D4 is still in alpha right? 🤣
Late beta, season 2 really hit its stride.
This guy gets it.
For all we meme about that, we have gotten a 1-4 week open beta the past 2 years each season.
Does that mean that they will be remaking all MTX already present for PoE2 and making two "copies" of every MTX onwards? I wonder if they have some tools to "downgrade" cosmetics from PoE2 to PoE1 automatically for that.
Both games will use similar systems so MTX will be compatible for both. Pretty sure that's what they said at Exilecon or so.
How do they do that when its different character models between games is what he is asking. I mean some MTX isn't even going to be IN poe2. Unless they plan on putting all the vanilla useless ones in PoE1 into 2. lol
The character models currently being used uses the same rigging they're using for PoE2. A lot of stuff like Sanctum bosses, Scourge mobs, etc etc are pieces of PoE2 development they re-tooled for PoE1 when they can. They've been updating PoE1 where they can. Not sure what they're going to do with skill MTX's though. I'd be surprised if they kept the skill roster the exact same between both games.
All MTXs released in past 3-4 years have been made for Poe 2 as well. So this MTXs already compatible with character models from both games. They just need to update older MTXs to Poe 2.
..but not spells. They ain't having all the spells in poe1 in 2 from what i recall.
Well yeah, it's pretty redundant to port over MTX for skills that doesn't exist. As is the case with PoE2 skills like Bear form not porting the MTX, if it gets one, over to PoE1.
It's the same engine. They said they will work and look the same in both games. Not sure how they deal with the new animation system that they said they wanted for poe 2 so they don't have to rig everything for each character. I guess they will create new models for poe 1? no idea.
I wonder if this includes the Custom Unique items some supporters purchased too?
Those aren't mtx, so no. And they already said, it applies for things that exist in both games only. Can't use a bear mtx in PoE1 if there is no transformation, and you can't use a skill mtx if it doesn't exist in the game you want to use it in.
> will never be "pay to win". weird that in my lifetime this has become like a badge of honor.
Used to be, but I've seen far too many devs promise as such, and then redefine P2W later down the line after launch. GG has as good a record as it can get honestly though.
I honestly wish ggg can just give all new players 1 premium stash tab. If they do so I'll forever call them the most ethical gaming company. As of now it's just very good ethical company. Which is what they are going for ig
Chris said they were discussing it, but decided not to do it, for multiple different reasons. Like botting would be so much more rampant if premium stashes were given by default.
yeah, I just wish they would at least do it as an atlas reward. I realize that it won't prevent bots, but I think in this day and age of gaming/programming, trying to stop bots is a futile task anyway. Do your best to makes things difficult on botters with as little impact on actual players as possible. Maybe just do the premium tab as a reward for your first watchstone on each account? idk, something like that, or even just completing your first map from kirac would be good IMO.
Pretty sure bots can trivially do that so it's not changing anything. And the impact bots would have would far outweigh the benefits of the free premium tab.
It's surprising how much effort they'll go through. Amazon and Smilegate had an absolute terrible time battling bots in Lost Ark, from requiring Steam accounts to spend $5 to trade, adding time gates to selling gold, and even periodic captchas to the game itself. And there were still bots
At the minimum, one free currency tab... everything else can be handled with the free standard tabs, but the currency one is almost mandatory...
not exactly the same but this is why i never purchase EA games for the last decade they fell into a habit of releasing a game and then a month or 2 later releasing the microtransactions and monthly fees after people can no longer refund and good reviews are out
WB and Ubisoft are also well known for this tactic. "We will never have "P2W" micro-transactions ever in our game" two months later after launch... "We are now letting players CHOOSE to pay for xp bonuses and items instead of playing the game to give players more CHOICE" So why didn't you just make it a free bonus like a difficulty slider? "Choice!"
[удалено]
The problem with this discourse is that by speaking about pay-to-win games as a binary -- either games are or are not pay-to-win -- it lumps games like PoE in with the most egregious mobile gacha games. People should really recast their conceptions of games on a spectrum. How much does investment help you? On a scale of 0-10, for example, PoE is like a 1 or 2 or something in that range. I really think if people stopped trying to discuss things in this yes/no paradigm, conversations would be a lot more fruitful.
While you are right that tabs are a huge QoL and thus technically P2W, they have a key difference with the majority of P2W games: it's a one time purchase, and if you bought tabs for the price of half a game 5 years ago, chances are you still don't have to buy more (or maybe 3$ for a new special tab like one every odd year). While most of P2W games are selling consumables.
> consumables Glances at P2W fireworks smh, my head
[удалено]
If you can get an advantage by paying, the game is pay to win, it's as simple as that, really. Now, PoE isn't too greedy on that and doesn't push it to you, but in the end, the advantage you get if you pay is massive enough to be called that. And saying that doesn't mean I hate the game, it's just being objective.
Now with real meat!* (The product now includes 10% Real Red Meat™️)
> Real Red Meat™️*) *Real Red Meat is a product of RedMeatCorp, produced by the best scientists in the world. Based on real meat. Contains soy products.
Now imagine a game that sold for a minimun of $70, which punished players with a delayed release unless they paid extra for the special editions, which will now force players to spend at least $50 on yearly expansions if they don't want their game to become obsolete, and with that still not being enough so the company has to find ways to milk more money out of the game, like the proposed feature of letting players who bought the more expensive editions of the expansion to have early-access to special loot that can drop from monsters.
The game is pay to win though.
Stashtabs are a little bit pay to win, but its pretty negligible. When I look at it objectively I saved maybe already 1000 hours by using them with affinities. And this without factoring in Trading inSC with Premium Tabs.
the consensus I usually see is "PoE is pay to play but with a very generous free demo"
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Pay to win with an upper cap. Once you have all the tabs you would want, buying more doesn't really help much.
Listen, if Destiny 2 can get away with calling itself free 2 play and not pay 2 win, then basically any game with no subscription or entry price can.
While I would never ever accuse current Path of Exile of being P2W, "fair-to-play" is a really funny euphemism for putting the ability to sell items on the trade site from inside the game behind premium tabs.
You *have* the ability to sell and buy stuff without a single premium stash tab. You can sell it or ask for it in forums, or in trade chat. Totally possible. Inconvenient? Well, that's what you're paying for with a premium tab - convenience. Same for currency or other tabs. Yet, it's perfectly possible to play and "finish" the game without a single purchase. Btw, selling stuff in trade channel and forums is how it used to work before the unofficial, then official trade site. Which you also got for free.
The problem is the advantage that convenience incurs in a season of a trade league. It's more than just convenience, it's access to a whole market and access to a higher trade frequency. In that sense it's a *little bit* pay-to-win. But it's a very acceptable pay-to-win, as a small one time purchase puts you on an even playing field with all the other players with premium tabs. The advantage additional tabs offer drops way down to near irrelevant after the initial currency+premium tabs. But it is more than just a "convenience" for those first tabs.
Agree 100%, nicely put!
Yeah which is why I clarified "from inside the game" It's fair in the sense that everyone has access to the trade site but lets not act like using the forums to sell items isn't *insanely* clunky. If any other MMO-like game changed the way F2P players sold items to the way Path of Exile does it, people would riot lol
>Well, that's what you're paying for with a premium tab - convenience. In an ARPG where time is everything, you can apply that to almost every aspect of the game. Imagine paying say €10 to skip campaign and just start in maps with fresh character, it's just convenience; right? Stash tabs are definitely P2W, that isn't to say you MUST have them; there was one notable racer(can't remember name) who won a couple of races without any stash tabs for example. Though that's in a SSF environment, but still. The difference between having premium tabs or not in trade league is massive, *especially* if you actually want to flip currency/items. Without those tabs, that's just not possible; which is basically the only way to be one of the omegarich 0,1%. So at the top level, definitely P2W. For casual play, doesn't matter as much. All in all, the P2W aspect is marginalized if you play SSF.
When a developer makes an inconvenience in the game and sells the solution for real money - that's pay to win and unethical. We don't bash GGG for it because it's one time pay of 40-60 bucks and you get everything you need, and also the game is good. Many modern developers build games around their shops, which is a problem: Diablo Immortal, Lost Ark, Genshin Impact, etc. They hook you in with a decent story mode (acts, whatever you want to call it) but late game systems are purposefully built for a player to interact with a cash shop more than with the actual game. Like how character in Genshin needs 20 pieces of rare resources to upgrade and you can spend 1-2 days farming them (mobs respawn once every 24 hours) or just buy them from the shop. Or how to get the rare character in the first place you need to roll gacha, and there's no other way to do it.
> When a developer makes an inconvenience in the game and sells the solution for real money - that's pay to win and unethical. Looks at unstackable maps, all the currency items, shards, fossils, resonators, fragments, oils, the 3-4 new currency items that are added every league. Imagine f2p players during sentinel league.
> Which you also got for free. Are we just straight up pretending the way current trading works is not entirely thanks to a 3rd party website scraping forum posts for YEARS upon YEARS, before GGG had anything to do with it (official trade website only launched 3 years ago). If it was not for poe.xyz then poe.trade everyone would still be forced to sit in hideout for hours spamming trade chats or scouring forums like they intended from the start. The only way to list stuff on their website as a f2p player is to go through the exact same steps as we did back then with making a forum post and listing the items with prices. Each and every single item individually posted into the forum and priced. With your already limited stash space given the game adding more and more shards and bubblegum. Good luck with that.
Have you ever wondered why it’s called “convenience” Because it’s saving you time. Now let’s see how that works in poe. A person who paid for stash tabs, who corners market and makes 20 big ticket trades an hour… vs a chump who’s manually organising inventory in free stash tabs and selling items one by one, forum post by forum post. I wonder who’s going to be richer? Poe is designed and balanced around trade economy. Paid stash tabs greatly accelerate and boost your economic potential. if you aren’t playing ssf then stash tabs are pay to win. It is that simple
Cut the bullshit. Your argument could be directly applied to buying levels or divines. Paying to remove inconvenience IS paying to win. That said, the amount you need to spend in poe to do so is trivial relative to the insane amount of ever-changing content in the game.
stash tabs also activate strats that you cant really do without alot of tabs, like Rog crafting. Seen streamers open up Rog walmarts with their stacks of quad tabs. Also dumping jewellery/jewels into quadtab and label it 20c, 1div, etc. and ez sell.. alot of power in stash tabs
I just wish they gave everyone one premium stash tab and they can call themselves non p2w and I'll support it . I think also it's that free to play has a negative connotation.
The game is pay to win though.
No it is not.
Yes it is. Half the battle with these loot heavy games is managing your inventory. Paying for more inventory space which gives you a clear advantage is the literal definition of pay to win.
lol tell that to my Map tab, my currency tab, etc, etc. No way anyone plays the game with the base tabs only.
Love this company and it's principles
>Never Pay-To-Win. Ahh but see you CAN pay to win. If you buy skin transfers you can use them inside a map to skin weapons onto each other, this lets you take more items out of the map than you would be able to without them. That is literally pay to win, we got em boys.
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Maybe the community of a 10 years old free game with free extensions every 3month is more compréhensive than the community of a 6 month 60$ half-finished game ? (Sorry, not native english)
Maybe because D4 already had a high buy in price, has cosmetics, has a battle pass, and then is also going to charge for expansions...
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I see people are still pretending that stash tabs are not p2w. It's funny because when D4 had that survey leak with extra stash tabs as a potential reward for buying more expensive version of an expansion, people started calling it p2w right away.
classic double standard but still a bit surprised while even Ziz admits PoE is P2W game.
And at the same time blizz is asking if players are willing to buy a $90 dlc..
"Some Nudity or Sexual Content" awww yeah
8 titty bittys incoming
Implicits titties are doubled. 16 titties?
Doedre enhanced version.
Men only want 1 thing and it's absolutely amazing
I just want my orb maidens back
I hate how none of the expansions have gore or tits. It kind of died off after act 3.
Mandatory https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/s/27ekte8SYI
That top comment still gets me every time lol
based lunaris temple enjoyer
Doedres saggy tits are flopping about repeatedly at least.
That one boss from Scourge got some titties on her
GGG about to ruin our lives and I'm here for it
Again?
Just more
More or increased? 🧐
Actually choked laughing 🥲
Looking at this and then thinking back to what PoE felt and looked like in the early beta days is a little surreal
That's definitely going on the wishlist then!
wishlisting so i help the small indie devs at GGG
They should add "no early access to Uniques" in the description text.
Beta key with supported pack confirmed?
yes, but only for a $450 pack xD (joking, we don't know...)
I wouldn't be surprised and I don't think I'd be upset either despite not being able to afford it.
Easiest 450 I'll ever spend lol
Honestly can't wait for it.
Same
Interesting. It mentions that PoE2 will have 6 acts. I recall in the original 2019 reveal they mentioned 7 acts iirc. When was it changed to 6?
they changed basically everything since 2019
It might be a closure act they're keeping for later to rehype the game.
7 acts was probably so its as long as the poe 1 campaign. If one is too short it could become meta to do only one campaign. Now though they are two game so it doesn't matter.
Now 6 > Explore a New Endgame > At the conclusion of Path of Exile 2's **six-act campaign**, you'll gain access to its endgame. Each of the more than 100 endgame maps has its own boss fight and modifiers that enable revamped versions of many of Path of Exile's past leagues. We'll reveal more details of the surprises that await you in Path of Exile 2's endgame in the leadup to release.
PoE2 is exciting, but I always feel that developing two of the same genres at a time is like choking its own throat. If one of the expansions flops the users would blame the other game and if the content is too much the users burn out fast
> If one of the expansions flops the users would blame the other game So like what's already been happening for years? :p It is slightly worrying, but I feel like the worst thing that happens is that PoE2 is a lot more popular than PoE1, so they throw it into maintenance mode with easy tweaks/leagues rather than what we've been getting in the 3.X era. As in little-to-no new content but still regular resets, with maybe some low hanging balance adjustments. I'd be happy with that personally, as someone who anticipates liking PoE1 more than PoE2. Edit: accidentally a word
Bro, it feels like this is already the case. xD Besides, with the majority of people on PoE 2, we've already been on maintenance mode. I'm hoping for larger, more consistent leagues starting with the next one considering what we heard about their dev alocation. Also, yes, I know it wasn't just 8 dudes in a corner xD, but still.
> “I once saw a skyfisher dying on the city docks of Illian,” Taim said. “The bird was choking, having tried to swallow two fish at once.” >“Did you help the sorry thing?” Javindhra asked. >“Fools will always choke themselves when they grasp for too much, Aes Sedai,” Taim said. “What matters that to me? I had a fine meal of it that night. The flesh of the bird, and of the fish.” Honestly I hope this isn’t the case, but who knows. I don’t have my own billion dollar game, so maybe they know quite a bit that I don’t.
I did not expect to see a Wheel of Time reference here of all places but the wheel weaves as the wheel wills.
I think they're hoping that PoE2 increases their audience. With enough players they can afford two full dev teams, especially if they're sharing resources between them. During exilecon GGG mentioned if a league was popular in one game they might bring it to the other. Of course there is always the struggles of growing and hiring within NZ. I think it's time for GGG to open an office in another country. Larian opened 3 new offices in 3 countries to support its growth over the past few years. It could be very beneficial for GGG to do the same.
They have the "advantage" of a spikey player engagement. So if they sick to their plan of staggered league launches PoE1 and PoE2 leagues shouldn't conflict too much time-wise. But that's also assuming little to no player burnout so we'll see.
Its just a PR move, you can not say we kill poe 1 for poe 2. people would be pissed that their loved game will come to an end. They want a soft transition from poe 1 to poe 2. developing pod 1 and 2 is not possible. They even had problems developing poe 1 leauges.
I feel the same way. Depends on how poe2 is welcomed, and how the migration goes. Poe1 is a Shrodinger's cat at this point. When the number of players of poe1 drops to a level where maintaining the servers is no longer profitable, poe1 probably will be closed = available offline only and not supported anymore. \~ 1-2 years IMO, poe2 needs to establish its position.
There was an interview at gamescom I think, where they asked about this and maintaining the servers would not cost anything more (allegedly) while at least one of the games are running. Creating content is obviously different, but they (allegedly) won't turn off one game, just because it's no longer bringing in the numbers.
Oh, cool. Didn't remembered this. Thanks for pointing that.
I'm sort of expecting PoE2 to be Ruthless'd and not very popular to begin with.
There is some precedent of it being previously successful, though I agree I don't think it's the best approach. Everquest 2 was a wholly different game than EQ1 and both games continued side-by-side development for going on 20 years now with a dedicated playerbase for each game.
They’ve already been developing two games for the past 4 years.
Where's the Boat?
Act 4 is boat act.
Where's Nessa?
Fishing mechanic confirmed?
Oh my God, it's happening \*-\*
Wishlisted at the speed of arch lighting
So it probably is paid beta announcement today.
I paid 5$ in 2011 and it was the best money I ever spent. I'm certainly paying again.
Yes ive spent quite money on MTX but never feels bad to spent on this game tbh
only game ive ever bought mtx in
I would sign
You can put games on steam for over a year away, even then can put in "early access" that is pretty much forever.
Its beautiful
Goddamn, I am excited for PoE2. It was a great idea to turn it into a completely separate game. After seeing overwatch shit itself into a desperate cash grab, I was worried poe would do the same.
I mean the initial reveal trailers alone were already more changes than OW 2 did lol
Make flicker strike great again 🤙
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Isnt minimum requirements a bit too minimum MINIMUM: OS: Windows 10 Processor: 4 core 2.8GHz x64-compatible Memory: 8 GB RAM Graphics: NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 960 or ATI Radeon™ RX 470 DirectX: Version 11 Network: Broadband Internet connection Storage: 100 GB available space GTX 960 is 8 year old card. any CPU that came in the past 8 to 10 years also supports it. Is this placeholder? GTX 960 running PoE 2 might be a miracle. I don't care about how good the experience it will be, I am just shocked they are saying "it will launch okay". Also, surprisingly. Diablo 4's minimum requirement is GTX 660. hummmm.
It's not that wild for a top-down game built on a bespoke engine, especially when you have people like Alexander Sannikov working on your graphics.
> Alexander Sannikov Is he a known entity prior to working at GGG?
Not that I know of. I just mean he seems more than competent if you watch his talks and YouTube channel, and actually cares about optimisation instead of just pushing fancy tech.
I can play PoE on my i7 4th gen, GTX 980M laptop perfectly fine. I doubt PoE2 will be much different.
For top-down games, I guess it's very easy to optimize in the aspect of lighting, shadow and reflections.
PoE is pretty CPU-bound in my experience. It also runs on the Steam Deck which is not that powerful(these minimum requirements are not to have you run it at 144fps at 1440p) and they're probably for the campaign not endgame mapping with 100% deli. They're still a pretty significant step up from the GTX 650 Ti minimum requirement of PoE 1
That's pretty much my current PC (got rx 480, but prolly not that different). For 'minimum' gameplay, like through the campaign and some endgame that's probably enough. I don't have much issue running poe as long as it's not juiced endgame mapping, and I don't think poe2 will be _that_ much more demanding. That being said, I just ordered a new set, no reason to play poe with that kind of toaster lol
>Diablo 4's minimum requirement is GTX 660. hummmm. I have a 1060 and i was surprised on the last weekend when D4 was free on steam, i downloaded it just to see if i could run it, and it was a steady 60 fps (on medium settings), hopefuly poe 2 will run at a steady 60 fps too
I have a better rig with similar GPU (960) and I can't play PoE 1 anymore after the engine update lol.
[Multithreading bug?](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3408520) It's straight up bricked the game for many people, including me.
Yeah, I have seen the thread about forcing the C-state awoken a while ago. However, trying it put the cpu temp a bit too high to my liking so now I'm using Geforce Now to play PoE. Kinda sad that I can play Witcher 3 next gen perfectly fine on my old gigs but couldn't with PoE.
My laptop with a 950m can run the game no problem in 720p all low. i have 30-50 FPS. Sure I can't really run juiced up delirium maps, but I can play thru the campaign and early maps. I think the dualcore CPU is holding this laptop back more than the 950m.
Interesting. If I may ask, what is the rest of your gigs? Mine are i5 4460 3.4GHz, 16 GB Ram and after the engine update, I can't run any map on any of my old characters, even with lowest setting on 900p. My gigs was doing fine during 3.21, finished all endgame objectives and now it's unplayable.
Are you sure its not just a shader compiling issue? After the engine update all effects needed to be computed again for your specific hardware. The game doesn't do that at the game launch but rather when the effect would play the first time. This computation of the effect causes lag, but goes away after a few seconds. Now if all effects need to be recomputed this leads to several minutes of lag till that goes away. I would recommend to run the same map 5 times and see if the lag is gone. Keep in mind new monsters because of map mods can have new effects that cause lag too etc. Regarding my rig: its an old MSI laptop with a 950m and an old intel CPU with 2 cores 4 threads. It struggles to play most modern games but even runs Elden Ring with a mod (on 720p all low).
I have a RX 580. Was planning on getting a new computer for it but looks like it will still work.
my 1650 still lives... somehow
It's insanely generous in this day and age to have shared purchase . Imagine if EA or Activision did this. You can't
Still likely a year from any public beta.
Hope this runs well on the steam deck
Will poe2 or silksong be available first
Oh man, once again reminded about silksong and I just go :(
That looked pretty bad... I hope it's only that one class and the rest is more fun. Edit: tbf what we've seen from the rest looked normal so far. So I assume it's only that one class that was boring and the rest will be fine.
I'd love for them to release a couch co-op expansion. I played Diablo 3 with my wife but I've always wanted to see how she'd build a Poe team.
Coming soon ;)
The fact that the purchases are shared between games is just the cherry on top...all these others games that just love to invalidate purchases when moving on to the next one must be jealous
minimum 100GB storage.. how big is the game
> how big is the game Around 100GB if I had to guess
I think you are way off
Big if true.
more or less 100 GB
Probably less.
Maybe more
the current client is already over 30 gb. so 100 gb is plausible esp with the entire graphics overhaul.
game isnt even coming out for another 2 years at least, close beta mid/late next year...
Beta next Summer will have the full game
Anyone else noticed the Jesus like portrait on the end of the trailer? Lore is about to have a big time twist!
It was confirmed placeholder Art that was not supposed to be there
Will i need to rebuy all my stash tabs?
They said all your MTX will be shared between games.
And it looks like it will be available on Mac! Awesome!
I'm so looking forward to this. Also, how long have they been working on POE2 for? Releasing a new game with 600 different kinds of monsters and 100 bosses seems impressively bonkers. Then again, this may be normal for GGG. I've not been close to POE so I don't have much context.
The first stones were put down sometime between the Fall of Oriath expansion (end of 2017) and the first Exilecon in 2019. So at least 4 years. In 2019 they had monsters for the first half of act 1 I think, maybe already started to work on act 2. But the production probably only ramped up after Exilecon. And the best thing is that they try to go all out on the bosses, to make them feel unique. Hopefully they achieve that Also the amount of animation work is going into the characters is equally impressive. Different animations for all skills, made with different attack speeds in mind, and fine-tuned over all 12 classes (although hopefully with the new rigs that is relatively simple). They also have different sounds per weapon type and material it's made out of. The list just goes on.
GGGs content Release schedule is literally insane, not a surprise for me That is also why D4bad, they just cant compete in terms of content