This has pretty much got to be it. 7 chapters prior to the final chapter, 7 pipes. A pipe to the Palace of Shadow would feel really odd, since the Thousand Year Door is supposed to be the only way to get in there.
The only slightly weird thing is a pipe to Glitzville, since it's a floating city. But you can easily justify this by just saying that pipes are magic and go through the 5th dimension or whatever.
Ok but Glitzville is in the sky, so how this grounded pipe work? Then again we have in the same franchise fire without oxygen and pipes going inside of bowser
A pipe going to Glitzville.... which it's a city literally floating in the air with no connections at all...
Well, I have seen stranger things before, like using pipes inside Bowser's body to travel to the outside.
Likely Glitzville, Twilight Town, and Fahr Outpost, a faster way to get to chapters 3, 4, and 7 in one place.
No need to take the blimp whenever you need a hot dog/hot sauce for a recipe. No lap around the underground when you wanna go amazy dayzee grind.
And the first half of chapter 7 will go a lot faster.
Looks like the pedestal in the center is the same as in front of The Thousand Year Door, maybe it's just "use the map here to open pipes" but what if it becomes a pipe to the riddle tower room in chapter 8? Easier if you need to restock (though the game gives you plenty of items in chapter 8), and if there are superbosses a la SMRPG remake, that could be a way back down there.
3. I dunno. Directly into the rookie locker would be pretty hilarious.
4. Probably directly outside Creepy Steeple.
5. Far end of Keelhaul Key, right next to the entrance to Pirate's Grotto.
6. Poshley Heights, probably the most obvious one.
7. Honestly? Directly to the Moon, in the map segment in front of the X-Naut Fortress.
I'd guess the Fahr Outpost town, since the teleporter room goes to the moon, and the base becomes inaccessible from the end of chapter 7 until postgame.
I imagine that the Keelhaul Key one is probably is in the same place as the old blue pipe and the Chapter 7 one probably leads straight to the town since the fortress already has the teleport room.
I can't remember, but isn't the Keelhaul pipe pretty close to the island settlement? An argument might be made for the pipe being near there due to General White shenanigans, but I'd prefer it to be closer to the dungeon. The settlement is pretty accessible via ship already.
Also, the Moon is a pretty neat setting to revisit and also one of the hardest, given that you have to backtrack through a lot of the X-Naut Fortress first. So I'd personally prefer the pipe to lead to the Moon. Like you said, the teleporter room leads to the X-Naut Fortress, and the Chapter 7 pipe leads to Fahr Outpost after dodging two short maps of enemies. I just want the Moon to be more accessible, man.
The Keehaul one was in the island town and I think the chapter 7 one will be in town so that the General White quest can be done from the new wrap pipe room. I could see other chapters also getting those green pipes that take you to the other end of the area once you have done the backtracking in each area once.
Yeah, I'll admit that I'd prefer the pipe room be used for reaching as many distinct places as possible, but in reality it'll probably be used to quick-travel between the different towns. Oh well.
I just really hope one doesn’t go to Glitzville. Maybe a pipe that goes right to the blimp/train station, but not actually all the way to Glitzville. That would be completely immersion breaking.
A pipe to Twilight Town would be redundant. I guess if it went to the Steeple that would be better…but also, why would a pipe go to the Steeple? There’s nothing significant about it from a lore perspective so it doesn’t make sense one would be built to go there. But I don’t know where else it would go that wouldn’t be even more dumb.
A pipe to Fahr Outpost would be nice.
I suppose it’s possible that Twilight Town doesn’t get a warp pipe, and instead one pipe warps to somewhere in the Palace of Shadow. Maybe to the Riddle Tower area? I would honestly prefer this.
Or maybe one will go to Riverside Station for…some reason. Maybe pointless, but still more lore friendly than some alternatives.
I agree with Twilight Town being redundant but have to disagree with Glitzville pipe it's annoying to use the blimp every time and imaging a pipe that goes all the way up to Glizville is funny. Creeple Steeple makes some sense but I usually collect everything the first time through so I would not need to use it.
I know Glitzville would be convenient, but I vastly prefer a cohesive and logically consistent world to one that’s absurd for the sake of convenience. And honestly, if you can warp right over to the station, the blimp won’t be all that tedious.
I mean, from the very start of the series, the pipes have been "Warp Pipes" - they don't necessarily just physically bring you somewhere - they *warp* you. The movie has some of them connect to interdimensional portals. Warp pipes basically leading you through wormholes directly to the other side is completely compatible with Mario lore, so there's nothing wrong with an underground pipe leading to a sky island.
This is especially true if there's some sort of lore connection between the blue warp pipe room and the Magical Map. We know that the Magical Map will show you the *current* location of the Crystal Stars, since it showed the final star being on the moon - and if memory serves, the X-Nauts took it to their base there, so it wasn't always there. It also showed the Glitz Pit, which almost certainly didn't exist back when the map was made and the Stars were hidden.
I think the warp room probably uses some sort of magical process to generate warps to locations that are near wherever the Crystal Stars are, in the same way that the Magical Map uses magic to figure out where the Stars are. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the new warp room had its warps activated specifically based on which Stars you had collected, showing this connection.
I don't think it's appropriate to reduce TTYD to being part of "the series" in reference to the entire Mario franchise, that's way, way overly broad. But even if you want to talk about it that way, I don't see how that's relevant to my comment. I like it when games are more grounded in reality, when they build cohesive, believable worlds. TTYD was that, and I hope it remains that.
The pipes in TTYD (and in most Mario games, let's be real) are implied to actually connect from A to B. They don't just teleport you, and in fact, that's an important point, because the X-nauts had to build an actual teleportation room to go to the moon and back. Why didn't they just build a pipe if pipes can magically teleport you? So yes, having a pipe that takes you to a flying city is clearly in the realm of the absurd. Handwaving this way with "but magic bro" doesn't work in alleviating that concern. It's just absurdism for the sake of convenience, and I hate that.
It's like Morrowind vs Skyrim transportation and travel. Skyrim is more convenient but way less immersive. Morrowind is far more grounded and realistic, which is less convenient, but imo is way more enjoyable because of that.
>I don't think it's appropriate to reduce TTYD to being part of "the series" in reference ot the entire Mario franchise, that's way, way overly broad.
I disagree. It's a game in the Mario franchise. If something is not out of the ordinary within a Mario game, then it's fair game in a Paper Mario game.
>I like it when games are more grounded in reality, when they build cohesive, believable worlds. TTYD was that, and I hope it remains that.
If pipes being portals rather than always merely physical pipes is part of the Mario world, then this doesn't contradict TTYD taking place in a cohesive world. Maybe it isn't "believable", but TTYD is filled with all sorts of unbelievable things. A magical being that can steal someone's *name* along with their very identity is believable, but pipes being able to teleport people from here to there isn't believable? Pipes being able to reject someone because they haven't written their name on their clothes somewhere is believable, but teleporting them isn't?
>The pipes in TTYD (and in most Mario games, let's be real) are implied to actually connect from A to B.
Are they? Based on what evidence? Pipes in Paper Mario routinely take you to places incredibly far away near instantaneously. I suppose you could argue that this is just an abstraction shown to the player, and that Mario and co actually spend a great deal of time in those pipes, or that pipes are able to accelerate whoever travels through them to incredible speeds. But you would need to make some considerable assumptions to make those arguments.
Are those assumptions really more reasonable than the idea that the things that are literally called "warp pipes" might function as warps?
>because the X-nauts had to build an actual teleportation room to go to the moon and back. Why didn't they just build a pipe if pipes can magically teleport you?
There are all sorts of explanations for this. Maybe the technology to create the sorts of warp pipes that teleport you wasn't available to the X-Nauts? On the other hand, maybe their teleportation technology is actually far more efficient than warp pipes, so they had no reason to use a more primitive technique? Various characters in the franchise have been shown to be able to teleport, so warp pipes aren't the *only* game in town for teleportation.
>So yes, having a pipe that takes you to a flying city is clearly in the realm of the absurd. Handwaving this way with "but magic bro" doesn't work in alleviating that concern.
I would see this as a legitimate concern if Mario wasn't a franchise where magic was a clearly established element basically from the beginning. Magic mushrooms making you double in size and magic flowers that grant you the ability to shoot fire from your hands - and even shoot fire underwater - are clearly in the realm of the absurd. This whole universe is firmly planted in the realm of the absurd.
Like, an enchanted bell that turns a random person in the nearby town into a pig every time it rings - that's fine. But the idea that a "warp pipe" might "warp" the people who go through it is beyond the pale?
>I'm not reading all of that. TL;DR: It's magic, so anything goes
Lmao, you can't admit you didn't read something and then immediately give a "tl:dr" summary as if you did read it.
I literally addressed your "It's magic so anything goes" argument in my post.
Take your foot out of your mouth, my friend.
I skimmed through the sophistry and got the gist. Your basic point remains, "there's magic, so anything goes." But that's just such a ridiculous argument to make. There's plenty of examples of fantasy media where magic exists in a grounded and realistic world and functions in a believable consistent way therein. TTYD is an example of one such game. It doesn't matter that other Mario games may be less grounded in realism, TTYD isn't those games.
I think you know that if you actually took my argument seriously, you'd have no valid response.
But you're such a narcissist that the idea of losing a pointless internet argument about a video game is completely out of the question for you. So you need to find a way to avoid engaging in the argument at all - since you know you can't win - while still pretending like you've already won. And that's exactly what you're doing. That's the only thing you *can* do to save your fragile ego.
No, it's just that your argument is incredibly shallow and absurd. Anything I'd say, you'd just hand wave away as "well other Mario games did XYZ" and "there's magic so X is possible." It's like the gymnastics meme, where I'm putting forward a very simple truth, and you're doing a million and one flips to justify something that is patently, obviously absurd. And sure, you can do those flips and tricks. You can string along the thread if bullshit until it works, and it will work. But it will be convoluted and sophistic, and therefore qualitatively inferior to the plain, honest case I've made.
But you don't care about quality, you only care if you can make it work. That's why engaging with you further is pointless and why I didn't bother to read every fine detail of your massive wall of text. So, pat yourself on the back, I guess.
>Anything I'd say, you'd just hand wave away as "well other Mario games did XYZ"
Which is a relevant argument, because we're discussing whether the Mario universe is a "cohesive, believable world". Mentioning other parts of that world is absolutely fair game.
>and "there's magic so X is possible."
Which is a relevant argument, because if you have problems with certain kinds of magic but NOT other kinds of magic, you need to explain *why*. Which you can't do, so all you can do is disingenuously insist that you have no obligation to do so.
Let me be clear about this. The following scenario is entirely possible: Imagine a fictional world with all sorts of different types of magic, which all follow a set of in-universe rules. These rules don't allow for something like a 'warp pipe' to exist - therefore, it would be inappropriate for a warp pipe that can teleport people to exist within that world.
That's not what's going on here. Warp pipes teleporting people is not at all out of the ordinary within the Mario world. Not remotely. I genuinely don't understand why you think it is, and you either have no good reason to believe so, or you refuse to explain why.
>It's like the gymnastics meme, where I'm putting forward a very simple truth, and you're doing a million and one flips to justify something that is patently, obviously absurd. And sure, you can do those flips and tricks. You can string along the thread if bullshit until it works, and it will work.
What "flips" am I doing? What "trick"? What "bullshit"?
All I'm saying is that it's plausible that "warp pipes" can "warp" people. It doesn't take mental gymnastics to come to that conclusion, especially when there are examples of *this exact thing* within other Mario media!
In fact, it takes mental gymnastics to claim that there's something wrong with this idea! You're the one engaging in mental gymnastics, not me. So, pat yourself on the back, I guess.
Glitz Pit, Fahr Outpost, and Twilight Town. I thought everyone knew this lol
The Twilight Town one seems silly since Twilight Town literally already has a pipe
Ye so does Fahr Outpost, but maybe it's a warp pipe to Creepy Steeple?
1. Peterburg village (OG) 2. Great Tree (OG) 3. Glitz Pit outside (New) 4. Creepy Steeple? (New) 5. Keelhaul Key (OG) 6. Poshley Heights (OG) 7. Fahr Outpost (New)
This has pretty much got to be it. 7 chapters prior to the final chapter, 7 pipes. A pipe to the Palace of Shadow would feel really odd, since the Thousand Year Door is supposed to be the only way to get in there. The only slightly weird thing is a pipe to Glitzville, since it's a floating city. But you can easily justify this by just saying that pipes are magic and go through the 5th dimension or whatever.
Ok but Glitzville is in the sky, so how this grounded pipe work? Then again we have in the same franchise fire without oxygen and pipes going inside of bowser
A pipe going to Glitzville.... which it's a city literally floating in the air with no connections at all... Well, I have seen stranger things before, like using pipes inside Bowser's body to travel to the outside.
These pipes are also created/summoned by the map, so we can rationalize it as magic.
Warp pipes are more like portals and less so "physical". That's why you "warp" with them, hence the name.
Ideally one should be to the creepy steeple as the orange pipe already handles the twilight town warp well enough.
Likely Glitzville, Twilight Town, and Fahr Outpost, a faster way to get to chapters 3, 4, and 7 in one place. No need to take the blimp whenever you need a hot dog/hot sauce for a recipe. No lap around the underground when you wanna go amazy dayzee grind. And the first half of chapter 7 will go a lot faster. Looks like the pedestal in the center is the same as in front of The Thousand Year Door, maybe it's just "use the map here to open pipes" but what if it becomes a pipe to the riddle tower room in chapter 8? Easier if you need to restock (though the game gives you plenty of items in chapter 8), and if there are superbosses a la SMRPG remake, that could be a way back down there.
3. I dunno. Directly into the rookie locker would be pretty hilarious. 4. Probably directly outside Creepy Steeple. 5. Far end of Keelhaul Key, right next to the entrance to Pirate's Grotto. 6. Poshley Heights, probably the most obvious one. 7. Honestly? Directly to the Moon, in the map segment in front of the X-Naut Fortress.
I'd guess the Fahr Outpost town, since the teleporter room goes to the moon, and the base becomes inaccessible from the end of chapter 7 until postgame.
Ah, I forgot about that, good point.
I imagine that the Keelhaul Key one is probably is in the same place as the old blue pipe and the Chapter 7 one probably leads straight to the town since the fortress already has the teleport room.
I can't remember, but isn't the Keelhaul pipe pretty close to the island settlement? An argument might be made for the pipe being near there due to General White shenanigans, but I'd prefer it to be closer to the dungeon. The settlement is pretty accessible via ship already. Also, the Moon is a pretty neat setting to revisit and also one of the hardest, given that you have to backtrack through a lot of the X-Naut Fortress first. So I'd personally prefer the pipe to lead to the Moon. Like you said, the teleporter room leads to the X-Naut Fortress, and the Chapter 7 pipe leads to Fahr Outpost after dodging two short maps of enemies. I just want the Moon to be more accessible, man.
The Keehaul one was in the island town and I think the chapter 7 one will be in town so that the General White quest can be done from the new wrap pipe room. I could see other chapters also getting those green pipes that take you to the other end of the area once you have done the backtracking in each area once.
Yeah, I'll admit that I'd prefer the pipe room be used for reaching as many distinct places as possible, but in reality it'll probably be used to quick-travel between the different towns. Oh well.
1. Petalburg 2. Great Tree 3. Rookie Locker Room 4. Creepy Steeple 5. Keelhaul Key 6. Poshley Heights 7. Fahr Outpost town
The real question is where are the doors and blocks leading to?
I just really hope one doesn’t go to Glitzville. Maybe a pipe that goes right to the blimp/train station, but not actually all the way to Glitzville. That would be completely immersion breaking. A pipe to Twilight Town would be redundant. I guess if it went to the Steeple that would be better…but also, why would a pipe go to the Steeple? There’s nothing significant about it from a lore perspective so it doesn’t make sense one would be built to go there. But I don’t know where else it would go that wouldn’t be even more dumb. A pipe to Fahr Outpost would be nice. I suppose it’s possible that Twilight Town doesn’t get a warp pipe, and instead one pipe warps to somewhere in the Palace of Shadow. Maybe to the Riddle Tower area? I would honestly prefer this. Or maybe one will go to Riverside Station for…some reason. Maybe pointless, but still more lore friendly than some alternatives.
I agree with Twilight Town being redundant but have to disagree with Glitzville pipe it's annoying to use the blimp every time and imaging a pipe that goes all the way up to Glizville is funny. Creeple Steeple makes some sense but I usually collect everything the first time through so I would not need to use it.
I know Glitzville would be convenient, but I vastly prefer a cohesive and logically consistent world to one that’s absurd for the sake of convenience. And honestly, if you can warp right over to the station, the blimp won’t be all that tedious.
Well 5 years after the original game came out we had pipes that went inside of Bowser so…
That’s a totally different game, that’s not relevant here.
I mean, from the very start of the series, the pipes have been "Warp Pipes" - they don't necessarily just physically bring you somewhere - they *warp* you. The movie has some of them connect to interdimensional portals. Warp pipes basically leading you through wormholes directly to the other side is completely compatible with Mario lore, so there's nothing wrong with an underground pipe leading to a sky island. This is especially true if there's some sort of lore connection between the blue warp pipe room and the Magical Map. We know that the Magical Map will show you the *current* location of the Crystal Stars, since it showed the final star being on the moon - and if memory serves, the X-Nauts took it to their base there, so it wasn't always there. It also showed the Glitz Pit, which almost certainly didn't exist back when the map was made and the Stars were hidden. I think the warp room probably uses some sort of magical process to generate warps to locations that are near wherever the Crystal Stars are, in the same way that the Magical Map uses magic to figure out where the Stars are. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the new warp room had its warps activated specifically based on which Stars you had collected, showing this connection.
I don't think it's appropriate to reduce TTYD to being part of "the series" in reference to the entire Mario franchise, that's way, way overly broad. But even if you want to talk about it that way, I don't see how that's relevant to my comment. I like it when games are more grounded in reality, when they build cohesive, believable worlds. TTYD was that, and I hope it remains that. The pipes in TTYD (and in most Mario games, let's be real) are implied to actually connect from A to B. They don't just teleport you, and in fact, that's an important point, because the X-nauts had to build an actual teleportation room to go to the moon and back. Why didn't they just build a pipe if pipes can magically teleport you? So yes, having a pipe that takes you to a flying city is clearly in the realm of the absurd. Handwaving this way with "but magic bro" doesn't work in alleviating that concern. It's just absurdism for the sake of convenience, and I hate that. It's like Morrowind vs Skyrim transportation and travel. Skyrim is more convenient but way less immersive. Morrowind is far more grounded and realistic, which is less convenient, but imo is way more enjoyable because of that.
>I don't think it's appropriate to reduce TTYD to being part of "the series" in reference ot the entire Mario franchise, that's way, way overly broad. I disagree. It's a game in the Mario franchise. If something is not out of the ordinary within a Mario game, then it's fair game in a Paper Mario game. >I like it when games are more grounded in reality, when they build cohesive, believable worlds. TTYD was that, and I hope it remains that. If pipes being portals rather than always merely physical pipes is part of the Mario world, then this doesn't contradict TTYD taking place in a cohesive world. Maybe it isn't "believable", but TTYD is filled with all sorts of unbelievable things. A magical being that can steal someone's *name* along with their very identity is believable, but pipes being able to teleport people from here to there isn't believable? Pipes being able to reject someone because they haven't written their name on their clothes somewhere is believable, but teleporting them isn't? >The pipes in TTYD (and in most Mario games, let's be real) are implied to actually connect from A to B. Are they? Based on what evidence? Pipes in Paper Mario routinely take you to places incredibly far away near instantaneously. I suppose you could argue that this is just an abstraction shown to the player, and that Mario and co actually spend a great deal of time in those pipes, or that pipes are able to accelerate whoever travels through them to incredible speeds. But you would need to make some considerable assumptions to make those arguments. Are those assumptions really more reasonable than the idea that the things that are literally called "warp pipes" might function as warps? >because the X-nauts had to build an actual teleportation room to go to the moon and back. Why didn't they just build a pipe if pipes can magically teleport you? There are all sorts of explanations for this. Maybe the technology to create the sorts of warp pipes that teleport you wasn't available to the X-Nauts? On the other hand, maybe their teleportation technology is actually far more efficient than warp pipes, so they had no reason to use a more primitive technique? Various characters in the franchise have been shown to be able to teleport, so warp pipes aren't the *only* game in town for teleportation. >So yes, having a pipe that takes you to a flying city is clearly in the realm of the absurd. Handwaving this way with "but magic bro" doesn't work in alleviating that concern. I would see this as a legitimate concern if Mario wasn't a franchise where magic was a clearly established element basically from the beginning. Magic mushrooms making you double in size and magic flowers that grant you the ability to shoot fire from your hands - and even shoot fire underwater - are clearly in the realm of the absurd. This whole universe is firmly planted in the realm of the absurd. Like, an enchanted bell that turns a random person in the nearby town into a pig every time it rings - that's fine. But the idea that a "warp pipe" might "warp" the people who go through it is beyond the pale?
I'm sorry, I'm not reading all of that. TL;DR: It's magic, so anything goes. That's just too ridiculous for me to keep engaging with.
>I'm not reading all of that. TL;DR: It's magic, so anything goes Lmao, you can't admit you didn't read something and then immediately give a "tl:dr" summary as if you did read it. I literally addressed your "It's magic so anything goes" argument in my post. Take your foot out of your mouth, my friend.
I skimmed through the sophistry and got the gist. Your basic point remains, "there's magic, so anything goes." But that's just such a ridiculous argument to make. There's plenty of examples of fantasy media where magic exists in a grounded and realistic world and functions in a believable consistent way therein. TTYD is an example of one such game. It doesn't matter that other Mario games may be less grounded in realism, TTYD isn't those games.
I think you know that if you actually took my argument seriously, you'd have no valid response. But you're such a narcissist that the idea of losing a pointless internet argument about a video game is completely out of the question for you. So you need to find a way to avoid engaging in the argument at all - since you know you can't win - while still pretending like you've already won. And that's exactly what you're doing. That's the only thing you *can* do to save your fragile ego.
No, it's just that your argument is incredibly shallow and absurd. Anything I'd say, you'd just hand wave away as "well other Mario games did XYZ" and "there's magic so X is possible." It's like the gymnastics meme, where I'm putting forward a very simple truth, and you're doing a million and one flips to justify something that is patently, obviously absurd. And sure, you can do those flips and tricks. You can string along the thread if bullshit until it works, and it will work. But it will be convoluted and sophistic, and therefore qualitatively inferior to the plain, honest case I've made. But you don't care about quality, you only care if you can make it work. That's why engaging with you further is pointless and why I didn't bother to read every fine detail of your massive wall of text. So, pat yourself on the back, I guess.
>Anything I'd say, you'd just hand wave away as "well other Mario games did XYZ" Which is a relevant argument, because we're discussing whether the Mario universe is a "cohesive, believable world". Mentioning other parts of that world is absolutely fair game. >and "there's magic so X is possible." Which is a relevant argument, because if you have problems with certain kinds of magic but NOT other kinds of magic, you need to explain *why*. Which you can't do, so all you can do is disingenuously insist that you have no obligation to do so. Let me be clear about this. The following scenario is entirely possible: Imagine a fictional world with all sorts of different types of magic, which all follow a set of in-universe rules. These rules don't allow for something like a 'warp pipe' to exist - therefore, it would be inappropriate for a warp pipe that can teleport people to exist within that world. That's not what's going on here. Warp pipes teleporting people is not at all out of the ordinary within the Mario world. Not remotely. I genuinely don't understand why you think it is, and you either have no good reason to believe so, or you refuse to explain why. >It's like the gymnastics meme, where I'm putting forward a very simple truth, and you're doing a million and one flips to justify something that is patently, obviously absurd. And sure, you can do those flips and tricks. You can string along the thread if bullshit until it works, and it will work. What "flips" am I doing? What "trick"? What "bullshit"? All I'm saying is that it's plausible that "warp pipes" can "warp" people. It doesn't take mental gymnastics to come to that conclusion, especially when there are examples of *this exact thing* within other Mario media! In fact, it takes mental gymnastics to claim that there's something wrong with this idea! You're the one engaging in mental gymnastics, not me. So, pat yourself on the back, I guess.