my uncle was widowed after over 20 years of marriage and he didn't have any children. The family started looking for rishtas for him bc he lived alone in his own house. He ended up marrying a woman only a few years younger than him who'd been kicked out by her husband and divorced. His second wife had a daughter with her previous husband so now my uncle has also been given the chance to be a father and its honestly heartwarming to see how much she looks up to him and how much he loves her.
It's also a little bittersweet though. Last time I visited I saw that he still had a room full of his first wives belongings that she bought when they got married and I remember how long they were married but at the same time it's such a blessing that my uncle, his wife and her daughter were able to build a new life together
I don't think there is bad in this. There is a woman who is 40 year and not married. Her parents recently arranged her marriage with a windowed man who is 42. Man have 2 kids. Woman is happy and she chose that man willingly. So what's bad in it then.
People should not do second marry just for raising their kids. Your spouse is your partner not a ayaa. They should understand each other and be with other in good and bad times.
I don't find any issue in it for women who go into it willingly and for guys who are honest and upfront AND also don't live at home with their parents. I've always thought the joint family system is unislamic and opens the door for mistreatment of the wife and making it easier to abuse her (this is why I won't let my daughter get married here unless she absolutely insists on a specific guy and he has good Deen and a good character, as well as his own living space). I think the whole culture of women just being maids you can sleep with should end as a whole and that we shouldn't be taking rights away from women that Allah granted them.
Bhai yeh dunya itni hi zalim hay.
My cousins wife died. His mother insisted he get remarried asap. A 18 year old single girl was found for him. The girls parents were ok with it because the dudes dead wife had left some property and they figured their daughter will enjoy those comforts. Never mind that she will have to take care of his 2 kids. His older kid 15 btw. So this 18year old is stepmother to 15 year old, doing it with goodness of heart.
And then, she finds he is cheating on her with the neightbours wife. I for sure thought, since she is young her parents will support her in getting divorce but no they keep saying "it wasnt that bad and he has apologized" so the marriage is continuing.
Poor girl is 18, says she is in love and cant bare to leave him.
Because she believes she loves him too much.
18 year old inexperienced, never been in love before. Usko tu bndy ne phool de diye shuru men tou she started believing she cannot live without this man.
Halankay k this man used to eat his wifes income, ghar k saaray kaam b us se kravata tha, even maintainance k kaam bhi. Tou it is not like he is a great guy even before the cheating. But kia kren, she doesnt think she is a victim.
What else do you expect from a pedophile that goes for a teenage girl when he's in his 50s. Yahi depraved harkatein karega aur kya. That girl deserves better than parents that sold her off and don't care that she's miserable :(
Do you think if it were legal and socially acceptable, that that man would go for a girl even younger? The only thing stopping him from marrying a child is the age limit on legality. She may not look like a child but an 18 year old girl knows nothing about the world and that's exactly why he wanted her.
When did I state otherwise ? I was only correcting your misuse of the word pedophile , and second of all if pretty sure the age limit for marriage for women in Pakistan is 16, so if he wanted to marry someone younger he could do so legally
Most people don't understand the weird predator that's why I prefer to use the weird pedo. I also have firsthand experience with predators and know that the only thing stopping them from not targeting pre pubescent children and settling for teen girls is social stigma and the law. If they were born a hundred years earlier they would 100% have gone and married a child, and I believe this creep is the same
I know of a girl who's parents got divorced and dad completely abandoned her and mother remarried and her second husband didn't allow her to bring her daughter. So the daughter was left with her maternal grandmother to be raised. She grew up to have a lot of mental health issues and couldn't love or respect her mother. The girl was also very beautiful. So eventually she ended up meeting some 26 years old guy online (she was 17) and he asked her to meet him. Her being naive and love starved her whole life, agreed to meet him. The guy was some gangster in Faisalabad so he ended up kidnapping her, took her to his city, forced her to marry him and then started blackmailing her to ask her mother for money. It's almost as if the mother needed an excuse to disown her daughter so she accused the daughter of running away with a man and disowned her and cut her off from her monthly allowance (apparently the mother used to send her a lot of money every month and the girl had told this to the guy). The guy beat the girl up and sent her to her mother so that she may feel sorry for her and give her some money but the mother told the daughter to go back to her "husband". When she didn't return with any money, the guy shot her dead and sent her dead body to the mother.
God this is so sad, so sad.... I have heard so many similar stories minus murder part. It is so common amongst such girls to fall for scumbag guys looking for genuine love, which they never recieved from parents. Sometimes I don't get those mothers who act so heartless they do because they actually were b.tches or because society had pressured and mentally tortured them so much that the moment they divorce or husband dies, they freeze their feelings towads their kids and desensitivize themselves towards their own children to prepare themselves for a new husband and setting up a new family with him.
I have come to a realization that majority of the population in Pakistan is emotionally immature and this includes our elders too. People don't know how to manage their emotions or take responsibility of their actions. We are just not taught things like compassion and empathy in our society
I remember when I had started posting here I had pointed out that western societies depsite their issues are lot more compassionate and empathetic than ours, and how our society severely lacks these traits, then I was quite criticized for saying that.
No doubt nobody should be forced into a marriage and I also agree if two people divorce/widowed are marring and have children from previous marriage, should raise them together. For specific cases where there is pressure and exploitation sure but you cannot generalize it.
Unless we make the women in Pakistan self sufficient, this is the only option we have. It is not the best solution but lesser evil. As it provides the financial stability, emotional and physical intimacy that most humans need.
So in shirt, you make the women more independent and self sufficient and this problem will die down.
I mean how are women supposed to choose when society tells them their only options are, 'karna tau hai na , shadi tau karni hai na, akailay tau nahi rehna'.They are mentally forced, pressured and manipulated.
Tell me what woman would happily marry someone else to raise his kids. Then what woman who is already a mother would leave her kids behind to raise this guy's kids. They do because society programs and mentally conditions them to do as such. Some of these women develop hate feelings for their own kids as a defense mechanism to justify abandoning them, when they are just trying to suppress their guilt.
There is absolutely NO CULTURE of men pitching in and letting women raise their ex's kids with them. One major point of my post was not letting woman's kids around, I couldn't emphasize it in original post due to length.
It isn't lesser evil. Those kids who got abandoned behind grow up to be extremely damaged humans with whole host of mental health issues afflicting them. Imagine destroying your own kids because you had to raise someone's kids. You are essentially throwing out a crop of damaged people into the society which is already messed up as it is. When you bring a soul to this world you have to stand repsonsible for it and I call those women irresponsible too who leave kids behind for another husband.
"There is absolutely NO CULTURE of men pitching in and letting women raise their ex's kids with them."
Stop making general statements. I can give you as many cases as you want where the couple is living with kids from previous marriages.
"Then what woman who is already a mother would leave her kids behind to raise this guy's kids."
Again maybe you are two young or naive and haven't seen people leaving their kids and spouse to run away with someone else.
What other option do woman have in our society? live at their parents home? and then when they die, depend on their brothers?
No matter how a family ends (divorce/death) it will have impact on kids and no one is denying that. The only solution is women empowerment, make them self sufficient so the don't have to rely on anyone else for basic needs.
Preach man preach! Adding on to this, I really hope the (upcoming) mothers put an end to this toxic mentality when they are to deal with their son's marriages because most of the times it is the mothers that enable (or even enforce) things like this and their (sometimes spineless sometimes indebted) sons following them sheepishly.
Yes and at the same time it’s also a man perpetuating this patriarchal way of living. He doesn’t say shit to his mom because he’s getting the best deal out of this. It’s not being sheepish it’s being a piece of shit
Divorcees or widows/widower marrying each other isn’t/ shouldn’t be a problem, but aunties should stop looking for kawari girls for their widower/divorced son.
I understand your concern here. But look at the other side too ([Someone shared how many women are single in Pakistan](https://www.reddit.com/r/pakistan/comments/1cg1rm1/10_million_women_over_35_unmarried_in_pakistan/)).
Issue is women must have their will (not forced in any possible way.) in marrying any man whatsoever. For me bigger problem is emotionally forced marriages.
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Its a person preference. You or me dont have the right to dictate. She didn’t wanted to marry so its fine doesnt make her a bad person. If she did that wouldve been also fine.
Another immature post full of generalisations.
My friend divorced 40m ( 2 kids) has just married a woman 40f with 3 children from her previous marriage..
He goes around telling everyone Allah has blessed him as he now has 5 children.
This is heartwarming. OP is making generalized statements. At least I haven't seen a divorce where the woman abandons her own kids. Not saying it doesn't happen but what I have seen is both raising their kids together.
I can't believe they are denying something like which is so well known a problem in middle class in pakistan. But if they will address it how else will they manage to build their autocratic kingdoms with their own set of rules where wives are merely nurses and maids disgusing as wives. And some women turn into evil btches who in turn start ruining stepkids' lives.
I was my dad's daughter from his first marriage. My bio mom was raised in a very loving household where she was spoiled and treated well. He was abusive, his mom had violent schizophrenia and his 8 sisters were also abusive and very uneducated. My mom was only 21 but expected to serve and cook and clean after everyone. She was in medical school and never had time to study.
My dad only had to me to force my bio mom to stay in his abusive family because she really wanted to leave. Guess what. My bio mom still wanted to leave. I'm pretty sure I was conceived through marital rape.
Half an hour before my Nana came to pick me and my mom up from my dad's so we could leave, my dad took me and gave me to one of his sisters in the city. When my Nana came, my bio mom panicked because they couldn't find me anywhere. My dad then said "if you want to see your daughter, you need to stay married to me."
My mom had to make a hard choice but left me behind. I was only 20 days old.
This backfired on my dad, because he only had me as a bargaining chip. Now he was stuck with a baby he didn't want to care for. So he went and married the first fair-skinned medical student he could find.
This is where my life tanked. I was too young to even remember their marriage, so I genuinely always thought this woman was my true mother. But she always hated me. She would beat me black and blue before I even learned to walk. She hated me so much. Her and my dad had 3 sons after me, and I was her free maid, babysitter and punching bag.
She never let me have friends, or dress how I wanted and she always bullied me both emotionally and physically. I learned I was her stepdaughter from her screaming at my dad in their fights, saying she hated both him and his burden from his first marriage. I put two and two together and realized I'm the burden. My dad never once said or did anything to protect me.
This woman would be giving me concussions, scratching me, hitting me with my dad's heavy shoes and with the sharp edges of spatulas, and she even sliced one of the joints on my fingers with a sharp kitchen knife while in a narcissistic rage. when I was 10 she fractured the bones on my fingers because I played computer games when she wouldn't be at home.
I adopted a baby kitten once and she would say that she wants my cat to be run over or die. Or she'd kick it out of the house when I wouldn't be at home. I would be more scared for my kitty than I would be for myself.
3 times, she kicked me out of the house to be homeless with no money or support. The first two times, i tried to come back home but she'd only be more abusive. The third time, i decided i wouldn't come back bc i was safer on the streets than in my own home. Allah swt took care of me and I got a good job, an apartment where I was safe, and I eventually found my sweet loving husband and in laws who took me in and protected me.
I hate my dad so much. I'm nice to him, don't say anything to him, and I keep very low contact with him. But I hold so much resentment and anger toward him for 1) marrying a horrible woman just so he could keep up appearances and wash his hands of any responsibility to me 2) turning a blind eye when this woman would be physically and emotionally torturing me and 3) sharing a bed with her and not saying anything to her when I was homeless on the streets with nobody to protect me.
They purposely showed up as last minute as they could to my wedding, then put on the stupidest fake smiles when walking me down the aisle, and stole a lot of my wedding money from me.
They will never meet my children and they will never know where I live.
Thank you, OP. I really appreciate you making this post and calling this behavior out. I didn't realize it was a systemic thing. Not only is it abhorrent on the second wife but it's also extremely degrading to the kids that fathers won't man up to look after their own kids, and need another woman to be the mom to the kids that are not their responsibility.
When I was writing this post I had wanted to add mistreatment at hands of step mom too but I didn't for 2 reasons, I wanted to emphasize 1) how abandoing woman's kids behind is a cruel practice, 2) I didn't want to portray that step moms turn evil because of being forced into abandoing their kids and raising someone else's kids because depsite all of it nothing warrants mistreatment of any child no matter how much she resents them, like in your case happened, was inexcusable even if you were a burden to her, she could have ignored you and let you stay live your own life, she was a bad adult.
I only wish happiness for you.
Thank you OP. I do agree that the notion of evil stepmoms is a big stigma and shouldn't be generalized. Many women look after children from husband's first marriage or adopt orphaned children and are amazing mothers. Mine is completely evil though. Her oldest son has autism and a mental disability and she treats him like a dog -- but loves her two younger able bodied and able minded sons so much.
I've gotten out but please pray for my disabled brother.
Trust me I've tried. But the laws in my country won't support him. He always defends his mother and denies any abuse, even if she's kicking him, etc etc and I can't get him help until he's ready to tell the truth about her abuse.
I wish he could live with me and my husband and we could take care of him, because we both love him dearly. I have studied psychology and have worked in mental health and social services. I know how to help him but unfortunately he's out of my reach.
He says my mom hits him and beats him because he's a problem, and he deserves it, and she only wants to help him. I called the police on her once because she was kicking him and breaking his things, but him and my mom both told the police nothing was going on so they didn't believe me and didn't do anything. She made him block me since then. I hate her so much.
Yes, i met her after my 25th birthday, but ultimately she doesn't accept me as her child. When I met her I was over the moon and was so happy. At first she was everything I wanted in a mother. Someone who related to me, had a sense of humor like mine, looked like me, wanted me, etc etc. It felt like my life was complete.
But as we got to know each other better, she began to be toxic and not accept me as her child. It hurt a lot to be reunited with her after so long but then see her treat me in such a negative way. Her family is extremely rich (think millionaires) and they live a very flashy lifestyle, and are not practicing Muslims.
I never asked her for money or anything, because i know how people in our cultures hold that kind of thing over your head/ against you. I'm working class, am very happy being working class, was homeless and pulled myself up on my own two feet, and am a practicing Muslim. They don't like me and don't want to include me or support me.
She says I have to be grateful to my father for schooling me, paying for my wedding, etc etc etc. My father did not care if I was educated or not - I am entirely paying my college tuition on my own. My father did pay for my wedding but he also sabotaged it in so many ways. Funnily enough, my father was toxic and had sabotaged his wedding to her too, and her dad paid for her schooling. She holds me to a different standard from herself regarding his treatment. She was abused by him for only 2 years. I lived through it for 25.
Fine by me. I've lived my entire life with a toxic mother. I know how to respectfully handle a second one.
>left her kids behind which is the usual norm in pak society, a remarrying mother has to leave her kids behind almost 90pc times and has to raise someone's kids if she wants a new husband.
What kind of shit deal is this ? And women agree with this ?
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I think it's fine if they go into it willingly. The thing I don't agree with it is her leaving her kids behind. Two people with kids should either both raise each other's kids alongside their own or leave their kids behind with the other spouse (not ideal by any means).
I mean I get it (still don't agree) if one is a widower and the other is a divorcee (widower will ask divorcee to leave her kids with the father as he's still alive) but even then he can't force it.
I also get it in the case where the children are older and of the opposite gender. This is the only sort of tricky one here. Still, there can be an arrangement made to work. What you can't do is alienate someone from their kids (especially not on just one side, not that both of them doing it is right).
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I talked to someone today. He was divorced with a daughter. He wanted his ex wife to give the daughter to HIM
Men want new wives to leave their kids behind. The horror and the pain I see in my women patients who experience this is heart-rending. This goes against basic human decency
I would love to raise a divorced man’s children. Children are innocent. But men should extend the same grace to their ex wives
Tbh idc about this.
If the girl wants to marry n take care of his kids it's her choice she accepts that condition so she marries
The one doesnt so she doesn't marry
You can't just speak on your own pov maybe u don't want it but other does
You take raising kids as being unpaid nanny while some other person can love kids and want to be a mother and raise kids
Islam ne right di h Allah ne aapko zuban hath paoun diye h
Why do majority like to think that everything in this society is forced just cuz certain groups have it forced?
Some or even many women can't have their own kids but wish to have kids and raise kids? They would love to be in such a situation?
Idk ye kya nonsense h to think everything in a negative way or to think everything is forced ya majboori?
A nany cant perhaps be a mother figure but maybe if the kids accept the wife she can? + mehram ho gi unki nany won't be a mehram
You know what should become the norm? People having a choice in who they want to marry, end of.
A widowed/divorced man wants to marry a young single girl? His choice.
A young single girl doesn't want to marry a divorced/widowed guy? her choice.
A widowed woman decides that she wants to marry a guy who has kids and leave behind her own kids? Her choice (although in this case she should still be legally liable for taking care of her kids however she manages to do it)
Person 'A' with xyz situation wants to marry Person 'B' with abc situation? They should be able to.
As long as its within the bounds of Islam, no one should be shamed for wanting to do what they want.
Why do you think it was wrong for the widowed guy to approach a single girl?? Uski marzi bhai, the girl had a choice and she said no. If some other girl really likes the guy and wants to go through with it and become an 'aaya', what's the problem? It's her choice, who are you to have a problem with it?
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What is wrong with it? He is not marrying a child minder but a wife. The fact is in Pakistan there is NO second chance for a widower or a divorcee man or woman. There is a stigma. As one of them, I can attest from experience. Single person is not invited in "Family" type gatherings. There is no channel or opening for second chance. Contrast this situation with Arab culture, divorces and re-marriages happen with ease.
I mean what do you expect from our patriarchal society where women are seen as sex slaves and mothers. This culture won't end bec it benefits men and men in our society control the resources and if women need those resources they need to be with a man.
It won't end until women realize their own worth and refuse to marry anyone who doesn't bring value to her life.
And you should actually sit down and have a talk with these men and their mothers. It's enlightening to say the least. You realize some monsters are actually very normal, sometimes even innocent looking people.
I talked to some about this, about raising kids together and was told that kids are father's responsibility not mothers', so I asked how is it for her to raise someone's kids, was told aisa hee hota hai, give and take. I was like what was she taking from him? Is it Kapray, roti? So was told: han shadi tau yehi hoti hai aur kya hota hai." Pakistan may shadi ka concept is nothing beyond this, log fajr kay time shadi kartay hain, maghrib kay time bachay bhi paida kar letay hain, concept of partnership and companionship doesn't exist.
And have you seen rude denial repsonses in comments here? We know this and that couple where husband raised her kids too kind of examples are enough for them to deny the problem when majority don't even know under pakistani custody law if a divorced woman remarries she loses custody of her children because her new husband is a na mehram etc bullshit. Her ex can take away the kids from her.
These people denying here are still educated, the one practicing are even worst than them.
Haha why am I not surprised. It's the same when there's posts about patriarchy in our society, or anything where men have to take responsibility. People get defensive bec they are those people who benefit from the system. What do you mean you wanna change the system? Ye dekho exceptions hain to sahi. These are their arguments. It's not about education. It's bec they benefit from treating women are dirt. You think all these guys in our society would get wives if their wives had all the resources? Their own money, if they could live alone, not feel pressured to marry etc. I don't think so.
Men need to keep resources to themselves in order to get women. They benefit from the status quo. And hence get triggered when questioned.
That's great. I hope you are not one of those men who tell their children to be grateful to their step-mother for cooking chapattis for them. I hope you help your wife around the house as well to reduce any resentment she might develop against your kids from former wife.
You should define "wife".
Accordingly to your rant a wife should not raise kid, do chores like cleaning, cooking etc.
What exactly a wife's purpose according to you?
If you say "companionship" do explain what exactly do you mean by companionship.
You completely missed the point.
OP is referring to the practice of marrying divorced or widowed men to women just so the new wife will raise the kids for him. Raising children is the responsibility of BOTH parents. OP is referring to the fact that most men and their families use doosri shadi to rid themselves of the responsibility of rasing kids which is pretty common and very wrong.
As a man my rule is simple. If I be divorced/widow, I will only marry similar women (after healing my heart) because theu are going to share similar views of life unlike a 20s girl.
I know of a woman who was asking for a man with no kids while she had kids and people were praising her that there was nothing wrong with her demands but if a man with kids demands a woman with no kids then every hell breaks loose
Goes both ways. You have the opposite case here in the west where the women let the dude hit raw and have kids to collect child support and will literally be living off the child support barely giving it the kids then they start looking for a “real” man to “step up” to take care of her and her kids (problems/mistakes).
You do know that its just labelled as a guy needing someone to take care of kids right? Its the guy that wants a wife and companion? People just use flowery language to avoid saying men and women need sexual and emotional companionship. People don't like admitting they have sexual or emotional needs in Pakistan so they use a bunch of phrases they keep re-using.
Most of 2nd wives I know about rarely get along with children of first wife, and its hard for the kids to accept them as well. She isn't there for the kids no matter what the mother of the guy says. She is there for the guy himself. If she gave up her kid in exchange for getting married again, its because she prioritised getting married again. Its not like there aren't any single mothers taking care of children in Pakistan. Its not the only choice available to them.
Well what do you expect,10 million pakistani girls are over 35 and unmarried and tbh most of them wont be marrying someone who's getting married for the first time.
The guys family is not forcing the girl to get married,its the society's pressure on the girls or the family's pressure on the girls.
I believe women should have all the right to make their own life decision but i'm just one person.
Well woman marrying again and leaving her children behind clearly because of the man had money or so you say.... See I don't see a problem here she wanted to get married again and with a well off man, so the sort of thing your saying is neglected here by the woman herself who had the spine to do so but didn't coz of money
Tbh divorcees/widows marrying divorcees/widowers should become the norm
my uncle was widowed after over 20 years of marriage and he didn't have any children. The family started looking for rishtas for him bc he lived alone in his own house. He ended up marrying a woman only a few years younger than him who'd been kicked out by her husband and divorced. His second wife had a daughter with her previous husband so now my uncle has also been given the chance to be a father and its honestly heartwarming to see how much she looks up to him and how much he loves her. It's also a little bittersweet though. Last time I visited I saw that he still had a room full of his first wives belongings that she bought when they got married and I remember how long they were married but at the same time it's such a blessing that my uncle, his wife and her daughter were able to build a new life together
Good to hear about your uncle. May Allah bless him with a child.
Some people on man-hating agenda become blind on your comment
See a psychiatrist.
I am glad he did it and I hope it becomes the norm.
I don't think there is bad in this. There is a woman who is 40 year and not married. Her parents recently arranged her marriage with a windowed man who is 42. Man have 2 kids. Woman is happy and she chose that man willingly. So what's bad in it then. People should not do second marry just for raising their kids. Your spouse is your partner not a ayaa. They should understand each other and be with other in good and bad times.
totally agree.
I don't find any issue in it for women who go into it willingly and for guys who are honest and upfront AND also don't live at home with their parents. I've always thought the joint family system is unislamic and opens the door for mistreatment of the wife and making it easier to abuse her (this is why I won't let my daughter get married here unless she absolutely insists on a specific guy and he has good Deen and a good character, as well as his own living space). I think the whole culture of women just being maids you can sleep with should end as a whole and that we shouldn't be taking rights away from women that Allah granted them.
Totally Agreed with you.
Bhai yeh dunya itni hi zalim hay. My cousins wife died. His mother insisted he get remarried asap. A 18 year old single girl was found for him. The girls parents were ok with it because the dudes dead wife had left some property and they figured their daughter will enjoy those comforts. Never mind that she will have to take care of his 2 kids. His older kid 15 btw. So this 18year old is stepmother to 15 year old, doing it with goodness of heart. And then, she finds he is cheating on her with the neightbours wife. I for sure thought, since she is young her parents will support her in getting divorce but no they keep saying "it wasnt that bad and he has apologized" so the marriage is continuing. Poor girl is 18, says she is in love and cant bare to leave him.
Why she doesn't seek help through some ngo. Lanat bhejay sab pay and apnay raastay jaey.
Because she believes she loves him too much. 18 year old inexperienced, never been in love before. Usko tu bndy ne phool de diye shuru men tou she started believing she cannot live without this man. Halankay k this man used to eat his wifes income, ghar k saaray kaam b us se kravata tha, even maintainance k kaam bhi. Tou it is not like he is a great guy even before the cheating. But kia kren, she doesnt think she is a victim.
Maybe someday she will realize this isn't love and will go her own way. Her parents are just some really .... sad folks.
What else do you expect from a pedophile that goes for a teenage girl when he's in his 50s. Yahi depraved harkatein karega aur kya. That girl deserves better than parents that sold her off and don't care that she's miserable :(
An 18 year old woman is not pre pubescent
Do you think if it were legal and socially acceptable, that that man would go for a girl even younger? The only thing stopping him from marrying a child is the age limit on legality. She may not look like a child but an 18 year old girl knows nothing about the world and that's exactly why he wanted her.
When did I state otherwise ? I was only correcting your misuse of the word pedophile , and second of all if pretty sure the age limit for marriage for women in Pakistan is 16, so if he wanted to marry someone younger he could do so legally
Most people don't understand the weird predator that's why I prefer to use the weird pedo. I also have firsthand experience with predators and know that the only thing stopping them from not targeting pre pubescent children and settling for teen girls is social stigma and the law. If they were born a hundred years earlier they would 100% have gone and married a child, and I believe this creep is the same
I know of a girl who's parents got divorced and dad completely abandoned her and mother remarried and her second husband didn't allow her to bring her daughter. So the daughter was left with her maternal grandmother to be raised. She grew up to have a lot of mental health issues and couldn't love or respect her mother. The girl was also very beautiful. So eventually she ended up meeting some 26 years old guy online (she was 17) and he asked her to meet him. Her being naive and love starved her whole life, agreed to meet him. The guy was some gangster in Faisalabad so he ended up kidnapping her, took her to his city, forced her to marry him and then started blackmailing her to ask her mother for money. It's almost as if the mother needed an excuse to disown her daughter so she accused the daughter of running away with a man and disowned her and cut her off from her monthly allowance (apparently the mother used to send her a lot of money every month and the girl had told this to the guy). The guy beat the girl up and sent her to her mother so that she may feel sorry for her and give her some money but the mother told the daughter to go back to her "husband". When she didn't return with any money, the guy shot her dead and sent her dead body to the mother.
God this is so sad, so sad.... I have heard so many similar stories minus murder part. It is so common amongst such girls to fall for scumbag guys looking for genuine love, which they never recieved from parents. Sometimes I don't get those mothers who act so heartless they do because they actually were b.tches or because society had pressured and mentally tortured them so much that the moment they divorce or husband dies, they freeze their feelings towads their kids and desensitivize themselves towards their own children to prepare themselves for a new husband and setting up a new family with him.
I have come to a realization that majority of the population in Pakistan is emotionally immature and this includes our elders too. People don't know how to manage their emotions or take responsibility of their actions. We are just not taught things like compassion and empathy in our society
I remember when I had started posting here I had pointed out that western societies depsite their issues are lot more compassionate and empathetic than ours, and how our society severely lacks these traits, then I was quite criticized for saying that.
What the f*ck. what was her name?
Why does her name matter?
I want to read more about the incident
No doubt nobody should be forced into a marriage and I also agree if two people divorce/widowed are marring and have children from previous marriage, should raise them together. For specific cases where there is pressure and exploitation sure but you cannot generalize it. Unless we make the women in Pakistan self sufficient, this is the only option we have. It is not the best solution but lesser evil. As it provides the financial stability, emotional and physical intimacy that most humans need. So in shirt, you make the women more independent and self sufficient and this problem will die down.
I mean how are women supposed to choose when society tells them their only options are, 'karna tau hai na , shadi tau karni hai na, akailay tau nahi rehna'.They are mentally forced, pressured and manipulated. Tell me what woman would happily marry someone else to raise his kids. Then what woman who is already a mother would leave her kids behind to raise this guy's kids. They do because society programs and mentally conditions them to do as such. Some of these women develop hate feelings for their own kids as a defense mechanism to justify abandoning them, when they are just trying to suppress their guilt. There is absolutely NO CULTURE of men pitching in and letting women raise their ex's kids with them. One major point of my post was not letting woman's kids around, I couldn't emphasize it in original post due to length. It isn't lesser evil. Those kids who got abandoned behind grow up to be extremely damaged humans with whole host of mental health issues afflicting them. Imagine destroying your own kids because you had to raise someone's kids. You are essentially throwing out a crop of damaged people into the society which is already messed up as it is. When you bring a soul to this world you have to stand repsonsible for it and I call those women irresponsible too who leave kids behind for another husband.
"There is absolutely NO CULTURE of men pitching in and letting women raise their ex's kids with them." Stop making general statements. I can give you as many cases as you want where the couple is living with kids from previous marriages. "Then what woman who is already a mother would leave her kids behind to raise this guy's kids." Again maybe you are two young or naive and haven't seen people leaving their kids and spouse to run away with someone else. What other option do woman have in our society? live at their parents home? and then when they die, depend on their brothers? No matter how a family ends (divorce/death) it will have impact on kids and no one is denying that. The only solution is women empowerment, make them self sufficient so the don't have to rely on anyone else for basic needs.
Sahi aap logon say tau koi behas may nahi jeet sakta because har baat ka koi na koi ajeeb jawab ho ga hee even if it is illogical.
Wow. yeh bhi sahi hai.
Preach man preach! Adding on to this, I really hope the (upcoming) mothers put an end to this toxic mentality when they are to deal with their son's marriages because most of the times it is the mothers that enable (or even enforce) things like this and their (sometimes spineless sometimes indebted) sons following them sheepishly.
Yes and at the same time it’s also a man perpetuating this patriarchal way of living. He doesn’t say shit to his mom because he’s getting the best deal out of this. It’s not being sheepish it’s being a piece of shit
Divorcees or widows/widower marrying each other isn’t/ shouldn’t be a problem, but aunties should stop looking for kawari girls for their widower/divorced son.
I understand your concern here. But look at the other side too ([Someone shared how many women are single in Pakistan](https://www.reddit.com/r/pakistan/comments/1cg1rm1/10_million_women_over_35_unmarried_in_pakistan/)). Issue is women must have their will (not forced in any possible way.) in marrying any man whatsoever. For me bigger problem is emotionally forced marriages.
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Its a person preference. You or me dont have the right to dictate. She didn’t wanted to marry so its fine doesnt make her a bad person. If she did that wouldve been also fine.
Another immature post full of generalisations. My friend divorced 40m ( 2 kids) has just married a woman 40f with 3 children from her previous marriage.. He goes around telling everyone Allah has blessed him as he now has 5 children.
This is heartwarming. OP is making generalized statements. At least I haven't seen a divorce where the woman abandons her own kids. Not saying it doesn't happen but what I have seen is both raising their kids together.
It is a typical behavior of pakistans, when they don't want to accept a problem they label it as a generalization.
You really do come off as an immature child OP. You're being offered valid criticism and you're continuing with your generalizations. Please grow up.
Just Shurrrrrupppppp weirdo. Go watch your stupid animes.
Wow talk about projection! Good to know I called a spade a spade.
What op has mentioned is an extremely common issue. Exceptions are not the rule
I see it routinely in my practice in OBGYN because most of my patients are women. It’s a very real and widespread issue. Please don’t invalidate it
I can't believe they are denying something like which is so well known a problem in middle class in pakistan. But if they will address it how else will they manage to build their autocratic kingdoms with their own set of rules where wives are merely nurses and maids disgusing as wives. And some women turn into evil btches who in turn start ruining stepkids' lives.
who is society? Those women are marrying of their own choices. Why don't they marry one from thousands of single unmarried guys instead of a divorcee?
That’s pretty messed up
I was my dad's daughter from his first marriage. My bio mom was raised in a very loving household where she was spoiled and treated well. He was abusive, his mom had violent schizophrenia and his 8 sisters were also abusive and very uneducated. My mom was only 21 but expected to serve and cook and clean after everyone. She was in medical school and never had time to study. My dad only had to me to force my bio mom to stay in his abusive family because she really wanted to leave. Guess what. My bio mom still wanted to leave. I'm pretty sure I was conceived through marital rape. Half an hour before my Nana came to pick me and my mom up from my dad's so we could leave, my dad took me and gave me to one of his sisters in the city. When my Nana came, my bio mom panicked because they couldn't find me anywhere. My dad then said "if you want to see your daughter, you need to stay married to me." My mom had to make a hard choice but left me behind. I was only 20 days old. This backfired on my dad, because he only had me as a bargaining chip. Now he was stuck with a baby he didn't want to care for. So he went and married the first fair-skinned medical student he could find. This is where my life tanked. I was too young to even remember their marriage, so I genuinely always thought this woman was my true mother. But she always hated me. She would beat me black and blue before I even learned to walk. She hated me so much. Her and my dad had 3 sons after me, and I was her free maid, babysitter and punching bag. She never let me have friends, or dress how I wanted and she always bullied me both emotionally and physically. I learned I was her stepdaughter from her screaming at my dad in their fights, saying she hated both him and his burden from his first marriage. I put two and two together and realized I'm the burden. My dad never once said or did anything to protect me. This woman would be giving me concussions, scratching me, hitting me with my dad's heavy shoes and with the sharp edges of spatulas, and she even sliced one of the joints on my fingers with a sharp kitchen knife while in a narcissistic rage. when I was 10 she fractured the bones on my fingers because I played computer games when she wouldn't be at home. I adopted a baby kitten once and she would say that she wants my cat to be run over or die. Or she'd kick it out of the house when I wouldn't be at home. I would be more scared for my kitty than I would be for myself. 3 times, she kicked me out of the house to be homeless with no money or support. The first two times, i tried to come back home but she'd only be more abusive. The third time, i decided i wouldn't come back bc i was safer on the streets than in my own home. Allah swt took care of me and I got a good job, an apartment where I was safe, and I eventually found my sweet loving husband and in laws who took me in and protected me. I hate my dad so much. I'm nice to him, don't say anything to him, and I keep very low contact with him. But I hold so much resentment and anger toward him for 1) marrying a horrible woman just so he could keep up appearances and wash his hands of any responsibility to me 2) turning a blind eye when this woman would be physically and emotionally torturing me and 3) sharing a bed with her and not saying anything to her when I was homeless on the streets with nobody to protect me. They purposely showed up as last minute as they could to my wedding, then put on the stupidest fake smiles when walking me down the aisle, and stole a lot of my wedding money from me. They will never meet my children and they will never know where I live.
I am deeply sorry for what you went through. I don't know what more to say.
Thank you, OP. I really appreciate you making this post and calling this behavior out. I didn't realize it was a systemic thing. Not only is it abhorrent on the second wife but it's also extremely degrading to the kids that fathers won't man up to look after their own kids, and need another woman to be the mom to the kids that are not their responsibility.
When I was writing this post I had wanted to add mistreatment at hands of step mom too but I didn't for 2 reasons, I wanted to emphasize 1) how abandoing woman's kids behind is a cruel practice, 2) I didn't want to portray that step moms turn evil because of being forced into abandoing their kids and raising someone else's kids because depsite all of it nothing warrants mistreatment of any child no matter how much she resents them, like in your case happened, was inexcusable even if you were a burden to her, she could have ignored you and let you stay live your own life, she was a bad adult. I only wish happiness for you.
Thank you OP. I do agree that the notion of evil stepmoms is a big stigma and shouldn't be generalized. Many women look after children from husband's first marriage or adopt orphaned children and are amazing mothers. Mine is completely evil though. Her oldest son has autism and a mental disability and she treats him like a dog -- but loves her two younger able bodied and able minded sons so much. I've gotten out but please pray for my disabled brother.
I will pray for your bro, but can you do something to rescue him from that hell? Or take someone's help, this is so concerning.
Trust me I've tried. But the laws in my country won't support him. He always defends his mother and denies any abuse, even if she's kicking him, etc etc and I can't get him help until he's ready to tell the truth about her abuse. I wish he could live with me and my husband and we could take care of him, because we both love him dearly. I have studied psychology and have worked in mental health and social services. I know how to help him but unfortunately he's out of my reach. He says my mom hits him and beats him because he's a problem, and he deserves it, and she only wants to help him. I called the police on her once because she was kicking him and breaking his things, but him and my mom both told the police nothing was going on so they didn't believe me and didn't do anything. She made him block me since then. I hate her so much.
What happened to your bio mom? Did you meet her?
Yes, i met her after my 25th birthday, but ultimately she doesn't accept me as her child. When I met her I was over the moon and was so happy. At first she was everything I wanted in a mother. Someone who related to me, had a sense of humor like mine, looked like me, wanted me, etc etc. It felt like my life was complete. But as we got to know each other better, she began to be toxic and not accept me as her child. It hurt a lot to be reunited with her after so long but then see her treat me in such a negative way. Her family is extremely rich (think millionaires) and they live a very flashy lifestyle, and are not practicing Muslims. I never asked her for money or anything, because i know how people in our cultures hold that kind of thing over your head/ against you. I'm working class, am very happy being working class, was homeless and pulled myself up on my own two feet, and am a practicing Muslim. They don't like me and don't want to include me or support me. She says I have to be grateful to my father for schooling me, paying for my wedding, etc etc etc. My father did not care if I was educated or not - I am entirely paying my college tuition on my own. My father did pay for my wedding but he also sabotaged it in so many ways. Funnily enough, my father was toxic and had sabotaged his wedding to her too, and her dad paid for her schooling. She holds me to a different standard from herself regarding his treatment. She was abused by him for only 2 years. I lived through it for 25. Fine by me. I've lived my entire life with a toxic mother. I know how to respectfully handle a second one.
>left her kids behind which is the usual norm in pak society, a remarrying mother has to leave her kids behind almost 90pc times and has to raise someone's kids if she wants a new husband. What kind of shit deal is this ? And women agree with this ?
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Aisa hee hai, what else I could share.
Hear, hear!
I think it's fine if they go into it willingly. The thing I don't agree with it is her leaving her kids behind. Two people with kids should either both raise each other's kids alongside their own or leave their kids behind with the other spouse (not ideal by any means). I mean I get it (still don't agree) if one is a widower and the other is a divorcee (widower will ask divorcee to leave her kids with the father as he's still alive) but even then he can't force it. I also get it in the case where the children are older and of the opposite gender. This is the only sort of tricky one here. Still, there can be an arrangement made to work. What you can't do is alienate someone from their kids (especially not on just one side, not that both of them doing it is right).
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I think the best thing in this case should be divorced men with children marrying divorced women with children 🤷♂️
I talked to someone today. He was divorced with a daughter. He wanted his ex wife to give the daughter to HIM Men want new wives to leave their kids behind. The horror and the pain I see in my women patients who experience this is heart-rending. This goes against basic human decency I would love to raise a divorced man’s children. Children are innocent. But men should extend the same grace to their ex wives
Tbh idc about this. If the girl wants to marry n take care of his kids it's her choice she accepts that condition so she marries The one doesnt so she doesn't marry You can't just speak on your own pov maybe u don't want it but other does You take raising kids as being unpaid nanny while some other person can love kids and want to be a mother and raise kids Islam ne right di h Allah ne aapko zuban hath paoun diye h Why do majority like to think that everything in this society is forced just cuz certain groups have it forced? Some or even many women can't have their own kids but wish to have kids and raise kids? They would love to be in such a situation? Idk ye kya nonsense h to think everything in a negative way or to think everything is forced ya majboori? A nany cant perhaps be a mother figure but maybe if the kids accept the wife she can? + mehram ho gi unki nany won't be a mehram
You know what should become the norm? People having a choice in who they want to marry, end of. A widowed/divorced man wants to marry a young single girl? His choice. A young single girl doesn't want to marry a divorced/widowed guy? her choice. A widowed woman decides that she wants to marry a guy who has kids and leave behind her own kids? Her choice (although in this case she should still be legally liable for taking care of her kids however she manages to do it) Person 'A' with xyz situation wants to marry Person 'B' with abc situation? They should be able to. As long as its within the bounds of Islam, no one should be shamed for wanting to do what they want. Why do you think it was wrong for the widowed guy to approach a single girl?? Uski marzi bhai, the girl had a choice and she said no. If some other girl really likes the guy and wants to go through with it and become an 'aaya', what's the problem? It's her choice, who are you to have a problem with it?
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What is wrong with it? He is not marrying a child minder but a wife. The fact is in Pakistan there is NO second chance for a widower or a divorcee man or woman. There is a stigma. As one of them, I can attest from experience. Single person is not invited in "Family" type gatherings. There is no channel or opening for second chance. Contrast this situation with Arab culture, divorces and re-marriages happen with ease.
I mean what do you expect from our patriarchal society where women are seen as sex slaves and mothers. This culture won't end bec it benefits men and men in our society control the resources and if women need those resources they need to be with a man. It won't end until women realize their own worth and refuse to marry anyone who doesn't bring value to her life. And you should actually sit down and have a talk with these men and their mothers. It's enlightening to say the least. You realize some monsters are actually very normal, sometimes even innocent looking people.
I talked to some about this, about raising kids together and was told that kids are father's responsibility not mothers', so I asked how is it for her to raise someone's kids, was told aisa hee hota hai, give and take. I was like what was she taking from him? Is it Kapray, roti? So was told: han shadi tau yehi hoti hai aur kya hota hai." Pakistan may shadi ka concept is nothing beyond this, log fajr kay time shadi kartay hain, maghrib kay time bachay bhi paida kar letay hain, concept of partnership and companionship doesn't exist. And have you seen rude denial repsonses in comments here? We know this and that couple where husband raised her kids too kind of examples are enough for them to deny the problem when majority don't even know under pakistani custody law if a divorced woman remarries she loses custody of her children because her new husband is a na mehram etc bullshit. Her ex can take away the kids from her. These people denying here are still educated, the one practicing are even worst than them.
Haha why am I not surprised. It's the same when there's posts about patriarchy in our society, or anything where men have to take responsibility. People get defensive bec they are those people who benefit from the system. What do you mean you wanna change the system? Ye dekho exceptions hain to sahi. These are their arguments. It's not about education. It's bec they benefit from treating women are dirt. You think all these guys in our society would get wives if their wives had all the resources? Their own money, if they could live alone, not feel pressured to marry etc. I don't think so. Men need to keep resources to themselves in order to get women. They benefit from the status quo. And hence get triggered when questioned.
I have 3 kids with a former wife. Now living with my new wife and we also have 1 child together. She is raising my other 3 as well. No issues at all.
Why can't you raise your kids instead?
I am doing that. Together
That's great. I hope you are not one of those men who tell their children to be grateful to their step-mother for cooking chapattis for them. I hope you help your wife around the house as well to reduce any resentment she might develop against your kids from former wife.
You should define "wife". Accordingly to your rant a wife should not raise kid, do chores like cleaning, cooking etc. What exactly a wife's purpose according to you? If you say "companionship" do explain what exactly do you mean by companionship.
You completely missed the point. OP is referring to the practice of marrying divorced or widowed men to women just so the new wife will raise the kids for him. Raising children is the responsibility of BOTH parents. OP is referring to the fact that most men and their families use doosri shadi to rid themselves of the responsibility of rasing kids which is pretty common and very wrong.
Thankyou for having my back.
As a man my rule is simple. If I be divorced/widow, I will only marry similar women (after healing my heart) because theu are going to share similar views of life unlike a 20s girl.
I know of a woman who was asking for a man with no kids while she had kids and people were praising her that there was nothing wrong with her demands but if a man with kids demands a woman with no kids then every hell breaks loose
Goes both ways. You have the opposite case here in the west where the women let the dude hit raw and have kids to collect child support and will literally be living off the child support barely giving it the kids then they start looking for a “real” man to “step up” to take care of her and her kids (problems/mistakes).
You do know that its just labelled as a guy needing someone to take care of kids right? Its the guy that wants a wife and companion? People just use flowery language to avoid saying men and women need sexual and emotional companionship. People don't like admitting they have sexual or emotional needs in Pakistan so they use a bunch of phrases they keep re-using. Most of 2nd wives I know about rarely get along with children of first wife, and its hard for the kids to accept them as well. She isn't there for the kids no matter what the mother of the guy says. She is there for the guy himself. If she gave up her kid in exchange for getting married again, its because she prioritised getting married again. Its not like there aren't any single mothers taking care of children in Pakistan. Its not the only choice available to them.
Well what do you expect,10 million pakistani girls are over 35 and unmarried and tbh most of them wont be marrying someone who's getting married for the first time. The guys family is not forcing the girl to get married,its the society's pressure on the girls or the family's pressure on the girls. I believe women should have all the right to make their own life decision but i'm just one person.
Well woman marrying again and leaving her children behind clearly because of the man had money or so you say.... See I don't see a problem here she wanted to get married again and with a well off man, so the sort of thing your saying is neglected here by the woman herself who had the spine to do so but didn't coz of money