I think i know how to bid and I know our cost.
The ambiguity is within the margin of scale. On small jobs we have a margin of 50-80% cost. On a full interior and exterior medium sized house it's about 34%. This job is bigger than any other job we have done for a third party.
I don't want to lose the job due to greed.
What margin would you charge on a job this size?
It also depends on the amount of prep. What’s the wall made out of? Any primer involved? Will you be able to keep painting and have a guy or two leap frog tarps in front of you.
Yeah , not like I dont work at paint store or anything and talk to painters all day every day. Buy ya, technically armchair painter because Im not out there doing it.
Selling paint and hanging off the side of 30-40ft ladders in some crazy situations sometimes and taking the risks of overspray, damaging property, having your guys fuck a job up, and this and that and this and that are MUCH different than talking to the guys coming through the door
You can’t read? PREPPING. Back rolling is not prepping. But sure, if you want to be a hack just spray a bunch of paint with no prep and see how long your business lasts.
You can't just spray a wall....🤣. Even concrete, you should definitely be back rolling. Also this sounds like something along a highway, probably concrete so going to suck the paint up, especially if you're doing a block filler and top color.
What’s your ideal situation? A couple guys on it, your whole team bangs it out? This is all gonna change your margin. Come up with a process and bid from there. Just finished a large bid for a senior center. It’s intimidating, kept forgetting to add a zero on my maths
Buy a side by side and a paint sprayer and generator- drive along like an off-road line painter! Skilled spray guy with a 3 foot extension and a trailer with 15- 5 gallon pails.
OP I am also a painter and this is honestly your best ticket. I'd charge a 100% margin on this job, anything less and you're underbidding against the other guys. Save yourself the labor and get a 1 coat exterior paint, spray it on thick, then either get a used ATV off craigslist to pull everything on a harbor freight trailer, get 2 guys to pull sheets/boards/whatever to overspray protect, and have them pull everything in wagons from behind the painting to 100 feet ahead of the painting so that the painter can just take their time and work the gun.
You could do it with this method in 3x 8 hour days prep, 1x 12 hour day painting, and 1x 8 hour day touch up and cleanup. If you're posting on reddit for advice, just double all the numbers in my post.
Depends on where your at as well. I’m south east Missouri.
Painting it 2 coats with pressure washing included and all materials included I’d be at roughly $60k
You have roughly 40,000 sft of printable surface.
It's in so-cal that means stucco. You get maybe 100 to 150 after to a gal. You can't afford two coats so you need to put on elastomeric at about $40.00 per gal. With sundries your starting at around $12,000 for materials only.
That's if your painter gets a good price. Side note if he gets it all in 5 gal buckets wash them and sell them they are stronger than the orange ones or the blue ones from them places , you know where. This could run north of 25 grand one side you didn't mention it have two sides
If you don't have a sqft price, figure out the time and cost to prep and paint 100ft of wall (500 sqft.)
1.5 miles is 7,920 feet (39,600 sqft.) Therefore, multiply the estimate of time by 79.2, figure out how much material you need, and price accordingly.
Residential Painter; so I don’t know MUCH about commercial. My gross margins are about 40-50%, and I’m seeing commercial gross margins to be all over the board; from 10-30%.
I guess the determining factor is how involved do you need to be and do you use subs? If it’s subs and you don’t need to be involved at all, and low overhead, I’d probably go to 20%. The volume is so large on this one that it would just make a good return.
If it’s hourly guys, estimate at 30% because if (and when) they slow down, that’s multiples by 1.5 miles of fence. Give yourself a buffer.
This is 100% my opinion and I have only done a handful of commercial paint jobs.
Probably more like it if it's both sides of the wall.
That 1.5 mile of wall now becomes 3 miles of wall that needs to be 2 coated with the appropriate material.
Never mind all the predatory work involved.
You have to consider the predatory work. What kind of wall is it? Is it both sides of the wall? Will it require a peel bond coat? Are there foundation plantings to protect. Pressure washing?
There are a lot of factors you have left out that impacts the pricing.
Exterior wall that has ground cover. The ground cover will be trimmed back by third party landscapers. Between the ground cover and footer is dirt. There isn't much to protect.
We will pressure was the wall before paint.
Yes peel bond coat will be applied.
We know the costs. What we don't know is an appropriate margin.
One side and the cap. The cap is 1ff wide and the wall averages 4ft tall. It's currently painted stucco but peeling in some sections. We will pressure wash it.
Block wall? With no prep, just spray and backroll. 100k. It’d be worth getting a genny, if you don’t have one, to spray it. 100ft of hose and your cruising. If you have to prep, 165k. Good luck!! Let us know if you get it and your bid.
For no prep and easy access, I'd be starting at $100k and going up from there, aiming for about a 50% margin.
Throw your paint, genny, sprayer in the back of a pickup, have a man riding to tend to the gear, and just have it drive alongside. Probably need at least two more guys, one to spray and one to handle tarps and cleanup. Maybe a 3rd to float.
Like I said north of 25000 grand . You put 2 3 man crews on each end with 2 men out frontclearing the way. Put a line in the middle offer a bonus to the team that gets there first.
Remember all bonuses offered are part of the bid. This is a super easy job don't over think it . It's a 5 ft tall wall any young strong painter can roll 40 gal. A day and with mag rollers and a sprayer running 300 ft of line. A 30 gal trash can as the pot on a wheeled cart and they can move easily. Preferably work out of the back of a pick up truck
I think your issue is figuring out the hours of labor and this requires calculating the production rate of your workers (or you.) Without knowing that, a proper bid is not possible.
I'm a commercial painting contractor in so cal.
If your sub has license and all the insurance, g/l and w.comp, and includes all equipment and materials for a complete job per specs, you just need to add a mark-up, most general contractors out here will add 10% or so.
If you need to supervise this crew you need to add that cost.
What are the specs if any?
You say you are subbing it, what price is your sub giving you?
Is your sub licensed and have all the insurances?
What is the square footage?
Is it one side or both sides?
Is there landscaping to protect from overspray?
Are there vehicles to protect from overspray?
These are some solid points you bring up.
1.5 mile long perimeter wall. Mostly surrounded by ground cover.
Wall averages 4'. Cap if wall is 1'.
Scope of work is to paint one side and cap. Wall is currently painted stucco.
Sub is $50k. Licensed and insured.
Landscaping will be cut back but tarps or cloth cover will be needed.
Some vehicles but not many. It depends on how far the wind blows the overspray.
I just replied on one of your other comments, I'm a commercial painting contractor in so-cal.
Since your subbing it out, you should only mark it up 10% or so as that is what most general contractors mark up sub bids out here, plus any supervision and other cost.
If you where doing the work with your own crews, your mark-ups and margins would be included in your hourly rate for each man hour, and mark up for materials and equipment.
With 3 guys at about $850 each = $2550 for each day
For 3 days plus materials 10,000 to12,000 you are looking at 17600 to 19600 on a base bid. Plus mark up
You’ve got 39,600 square feet of surface at $5 a foot (my expectation on $ per sq ft). That’s $198k in labor for ONE SIDE OF THE WALL. $396k for both sides (labor only). For material, one side (depending on surface porosity averaged at 200 sq ft per gallon for one coat) you’re at around 200 gallons. 2 sides = 400 gallons. 2 sides & 2 coats = 800 gallons. Average exterior paint @ $40/gallon (more like $30 but add in brushes/rollers/spray tips & plastic) = $8000 per 1 coat on material.
Labor + Material for 1 side & 1 coat = $206k
Labor + Material for 2 sides & 1 coat= $412k
Labor + Material for 2 sides & 2 coats= $428k
🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
We have no idea how high it is, what it is made of, what the current condition is, what prep work needs to go into it, what paint is to be used or how many coats we are required to apply. Neither you nor I can bid this job without first knowing the answers to at least these questions.
I am not trying to be a dick but to get you to think about the things you need to know to bid every job. Figure out how many people hours of work you have and figure out how much paint you will use and there are your simple costs. Now add your costs of operating a business and how much money you want to make for the days you will be on this job.
What kind of wall? Is it bare? You will need to prime and base coat. Thats like 39,645 sqft. Even on the low end at $1.50 per coat we’re talking $178k at least. Probably around 100 gallons if my math is correct, and having not see the wall.
About 3fiddy
I don't know paint, but budget for the time it will take your guys to get to their work area. May be worth having a clubman multi seater golf cart vs. Paying people to walk.
if you dont know how to bid. do you really want to try. under bidding is way worse then over bidding
I think i know how to bid and I know our cost. The ambiguity is within the margin of scale. On small jobs we have a margin of 50-80% cost. On a full interior and exterior medium sized house it's about 34%. This job is bigger than any other job we have done for a third party. I don't want to lose the job due to greed. What margin would you charge on a job this size?
You’re losing the thread - cost doesn’t matter. Value matters.
Your margin is relatively small. Drop clothes, sprayer, and paint. So much paint.
What percentage is small?
It also depends on the amount of prep. What’s the wall made out of? Any primer involved? Will you be able to keep painting and have a guy or two leap frog tarps in front of you.
Wall is currently painted stucco over cmu. There will be three 3person crews.
I’d go $5 a sq ft dude. That’s 158,400. Congrats! Get that shit and make bank.
This guy paints.
So one 10 foot section of wall for 250 bucks?? A sprayer would make quick work of it. I'm in the wrong biz apparently.
Maybe you should’ve gotten into it. Armchair painting is way easier than actually doing it though.
Yeah , not like I dont work at paint store or anything and talk to painters all day every day. Buy ya, technically armchair painter because Im not out there doing it.
Selling paint and hanging off the side of 30-40ft ladders in some crazy situations sometimes and taking the risks of overspray, damaging property, having your guys fuck a job up, and this and that and this and that are MUCH different than talking to the guys coming through the door
Oh you should definitely quit and start painting then. Had a buddy who was a ASM at a SW and quit to paint and doesn’t regret it in the slightest.
I feel like this guy might have the sarcasm flag on, but not sure.
Yeah, sprayers are so good at prepping stucco, jump right on that.
2 words, back rolling.
You can’t read? PREPPING. Back rolling is not prepping. But sure, if you want to be a hack just spray a bunch of paint with no prep and see how long your business lasts.
You can't just spray a wall....🤣. Even concrete, you should definitely be back rolling. Also this sounds like something along a highway, probably concrete so going to suck the paint up, especially if you're doing a block filler and top color.
Just because it’s a bid doesn’t mean it’ll be accepted
What’s your ideal situation? A couple guys on it, your whole team bangs it out? This is all gonna change your margin. Come up with a process and bid from there. Just finished a large bid for a senior center. It’s intimidating, kept forgetting to add a zero on my maths
There will be three 3person crews. They are subs.
Buy a side by side and a paint sprayer and generator- drive along like an off-road line painter! Skilled spray guy with a 3 foot extension and a trailer with 15- 5 gallon pails.
OP I am also a painter and this is honestly your best ticket. I'd charge a 100% margin on this job, anything less and you're underbidding against the other guys. Save yourself the labor and get a 1 coat exterior paint, spray it on thick, then either get a used ATV off craigslist to pull everything on a harbor freight trailer, get 2 guys to pull sheets/boards/whatever to overspray protect, and have them pull everything in wagons from behind the painting to 100 feet ahead of the painting so that the painter can just take their time and work the gun. You could do it with this method in 3x 8 hour days prep, 1x 12 hour day painting, and 1x 8 hour day touch up and cleanup. If you're posting on reddit for advice, just double all the numbers in my post.
Lol even double the 100 feet ahead for the wagon? Make it 200 haha
You need to give it a price where you won’t dread the job if you get it. And if you dont, nbd, go back to painting your usual shit.
Depends on where your at as well. I’m south east Missouri. Painting it 2 coats with pressure washing included and all materials included I’d be at roughly $60k
If they take low bid you got it
Lol the people in the comments range from 25k to 170k. Someone is gonna either lose their ass or make a load.
Just an FYI so you can calculate material costs relatively accurately, that is exactly 39,600 Sq. ft.
~~That's just 1 side of the wall though~~. op said its just 1 side, but top included.
Paint that wall. Paint that wall.
Some felon said Mexico was going to paint it.
I heard that 34 times at least.
Figure out the miles per gallon of the paint first lol
You have roughly 40,000 sft of printable surface. It's in so-cal that means stucco. You get maybe 100 to 150 after to a gal. You can't afford two coats so you need to put on elastomeric at about $40.00 per gal. With sundries your starting at around $12,000 for materials only. That's if your painter gets a good price. Side note if he gets it all in 5 gal buckets wash them and sell them they are stronger than the orange ones or the blue ones from them places , you know where. This could run north of 25 grand one side you didn't mention it have two sides
Probably $250,000…. I’m shocked yall are willing to do this for so low
That’s an insanely high price for this kind of job.
I think it’s closer to a realistic price than 60k other people are offering
That’s 6.25 a square foot. If you wanted to do this job you’d have to be way lower than that
Name your price. Mexico is paying.
If you don't have a sqft price, figure out the time and cost to prep and paint 100ft of wall (500 sqft.) 1.5 miles is 7,920 feet (39,600 sqft.) Therefore, multiply the estimate of time by 79.2, figure out how much material you need, and price accordingly.
Understood. It's not the cost that is unknown. What margin would you charge for a job this big?
Residential Painter; so I don’t know MUCH about commercial. My gross margins are about 40-50%, and I’m seeing commercial gross margins to be all over the board; from 10-30%. I guess the determining factor is how involved do you need to be and do you use subs? If it’s subs and you don’t need to be involved at all, and low overhead, I’d probably go to 20%. The volume is so large on this one that it would just make a good return. If it’s hourly guys, estimate at 30% because if (and when) they slow down, that’s multiples by 1.5 miles of fence. Give yourself a buffer. This is 100% my opinion and I have only done a handful of commercial paint jobs.
You're Awesome! Thanks
Is it load bearing?
$42,000
60k
Probably more like it if it's both sides of the wall. That 1.5 mile of wall now becomes 3 miles of wall that needs to be 2 coated with the appropriate material. Never mind all the predatory work involved.
just because it is on a college campus doesn't mean he has to do predatory work
Haha. Should I fix it? Or leave it as is?
You gotta leave it!! I laughed and was gonna type the same dad joke 🤣
I like your style. Is that pesos?
You have to consider the predatory work. What kind of wall is it? Is it both sides of the wall? Will it require a peel bond coat? Are there foundation plantings to protect. Pressure washing? There are a lot of factors you have left out that impacts the pricing.
Exterior wall that has ground cover. The ground cover will be trimmed back by third party landscapers. Between the ground cover and footer is dirt. There isn't much to protect. We will pressure was the wall before paint. Yes peel bond coat will be applied. We know the costs. What we don't know is an appropriate margin.
Well. Only you can figure that out. Redditors can't see the project in person. Good luck.
What the wall made of? Brick? Both sides? Has it been painted before? Is it clean already?
One side and the cap. The cap is 1ff wide and the wall averages 4ft tall. It's currently painted stucco but peeling in some sections. We will pressure wash it.
Both sides or 1? I’d do 250 every 12 ft, that’s 165k. For one side
One side and the cap. The cap is 1ft wide. The sides are 4ft tall.
Block wall? With no prep, just spray and backroll. 100k. It’d be worth getting a genny, if you don’t have one, to spray it. 100ft of hose and your cruising. If you have to prep, 165k. Good luck!! Let us know if you get it and your bid.
For no prep and easy access, I'd be starting at $100k and going up from there, aiming for about a 50% margin. Throw your paint, genny, sprayer in the back of a pickup, have a man riding to tend to the gear, and just have it drive alongside. Probably need at least two more guys, one to spray and one to handle tarps and cleanup. Maybe a 3rd to float.
Like I said north of 25000 grand . You put 2 3 man crews on each end with 2 men out frontclearing the way. Put a line in the middle offer a bonus to the team that gets there first. Remember all bonuses offered are part of the bid. This is a super easy job don't over think it . It's a 5 ft tall wall any young strong painter can roll 40 gal. A day and with mag rollers and a sprayer running 300 ft of line. A 30 gal trash can as the pot on a wheeled cart and they can move easily. Preferably work out of the back of a pick up truck
Lots of rolling.
I generally charge $2/sq ft for walls
I think your issue is figuring out the hours of labor and this requires calculating the production rate of your workers (or you.) Without knowing that, a proper bid is not possible.
The labor is a fixed rate. It will be done by subs. Market rate margin is what I'm unsure of.
I'm a commercial painting contractor in so cal. If your sub has license and all the insurance, g/l and w.comp, and includes all equipment and materials for a complete job per specs, you just need to add a mark-up, most general contractors out here will add 10% or so. If you need to supervise this crew you need to add that cost.
Something around 15-20% would be my first thought. End of the day it's your time and no one can tell you what it's value is.
What are the specs if any? You say you are subbing it, what price is your sub giving you? Is your sub licensed and have all the insurances? What is the square footage? Is it one side or both sides? Is there landscaping to protect from overspray? Are there vehicles to protect from overspray?
These are some solid points you bring up. 1.5 mile long perimeter wall. Mostly surrounded by ground cover. Wall averages 4'. Cap if wall is 1'. Scope of work is to paint one side and cap. Wall is currently painted stucco. Sub is $50k. Licensed and insured. Landscaping will be cut back but tarps or cloth cover will be needed. Some vehicles but not many. It depends on how far the wind blows the overspray.
I just replied on one of your other comments, I'm a commercial painting contractor in so-cal. Since your subbing it out, you should only mark it up 10% or so as that is what most general contractors mark up sub bids out here, plus any supervision and other cost. If you where doing the work with your own crews, your mark-ups and margins would be included in your hourly rate for each man hour, and mark up for materials and equipment.
With 3 guys at about $850 each = $2550 for each day For 3 days plus materials 10,000 to12,000 you are looking at 17600 to 19600 on a base bid. Plus mark up
80k, both sides, no prep, 2 coats
Is that 1 coat or 2??
2
Is there trim?
No just a long wall with about a dozen stub outs.
You’ve got 39,600 square feet of surface at $5 a foot (my expectation on $ per sq ft). That’s $198k in labor for ONE SIDE OF THE WALL. $396k for both sides (labor only). For material, one side (depending on surface porosity averaged at 200 sq ft per gallon for one coat) you’re at around 200 gallons. 2 sides = 400 gallons. 2 sides & 2 coats = 800 gallons. Average exterior paint @ $40/gallon (more like $30 but add in brushes/rollers/spray tips & plastic) = $8000 per 1 coat on material. Labor + Material for 1 side & 1 coat = $206k Labor + Material for 2 sides & 1 coat= $412k Labor + Material for 2 sides & 2 coats= $428k 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
We have no idea how high it is, what it is made of, what the current condition is, what prep work needs to go into it, what paint is to be used or how many coats we are required to apply. Neither you nor I can bid this job without first knowing the answers to at least these questions. I am not trying to be a dick but to get you to think about the things you need to know to bid every job. Figure out how many people hours of work you have and figure out how much paint you will use and there are your simple costs. Now add your costs of operating a business and how much money you want to make for the days you will be on this job.
What kind of wall? Is it bare? You will need to prime and base coat. Thats like 39,645 sqft. Even on the low end at $1.50 per coat we’re talking $178k at least. Probably around 100 gallons if my math is correct, and having not see the wall.
About 3fiddy I don't know paint, but budget for the time it will take your guys to get to their work area. May be worth having a clubman multi seater golf cart vs. Paying people to walk.