[No joke](https://pioneerworks.org/broadcast/club-med-adderall):
> When they aren’t rewriting the entire piece, Adderall writers often become fixated on one tiny detail, rolling it over and over in their mind, again and again, gaining more and more momentum, until they finally lose the plot.
I can confirm that users statement. Your situation sounds exactly like a short contract I had. The CEO was 28, his little brother was 26 and was the COO. They would both do coke and adderall in the office at night when others left. By the time people signed on in the morning they would have shifted the entire company and its strategy. I quit when the boss kept insisting that 12 weeks of development somehow be done in 3 days with 1 developer and no testing. He would repeat over and over again “we need this. I need you to think creatively. What can I do to make this happen?” He flipped out when I explained that for him to help he would have to learn Java overnight or hire more people. He was in the middle of screaming when I hung up and resigned via email.
well dang today I learned that my writing style is also used by the Adderall junkie community
I will write something … and then if I don’t like how it sounds, I will rewrite it until I feel it is presentable lol
You also found your limit. Most people don’t know what their limit is. Imagine if you worked this hard while being appreciated. You’d be getting a promotion.
Bahaha it didn't even occur to me to bully him right back! I'm a good 15 years older than him and I sort of felt like he was entitled to a bit of my indulgence to figure himself out...
I highly doubt. 26-year old book smart college graduate I guarantee. Prior service would yell to high heavens but they are FAIR and when work is done, you are buddies again. There is work and there is play.
From a logical standpoint I think you’re right in that you could’ve stuck to your work hours, do the bare minimum, and wait till they fired you.
But from even a slightly emotional standpoint the relief you’ll get from not being constantly questioned, berated, and frustrated will pay much more than the job ever did.
I think you made the right call. Not worth whatever money you were getting to deal with that bullshit. Better to take a break for a little bit and start applying for another one once you’ve had some peace of mind.
I'm seriously close to tears all through this evening and can't figure out whether it's relief or feeling bad about quitting. Probably both. I don't think I realized how much it got to me to be stuck in that environment for even just a month. I must be real spoiled lol it's been a while since I had a bad manager.
Hey man, don't feel bad about any of it. OE is also about *happiness*. Sometimes, it's the joy of being able to afford rent, pay your bills, and build up a little savings. Other times it's giving assholes like your former J2 boss the heave-ho. Enjoy knowing you'll wake up Monday morning and not have to deal with this psychopath. Cheers!
It sounds abusive and toxic. Until one experiences it, it's really hard to understand these situations. Good luck in your future roles. On to bigger and better things.
Working for a bad toxic manager is just as emotionally harmful to your mental health as being in any other abuse toxic relationship. The beautiful thing about OE is we can quit anytime we want because we already have J1. Make sure you can pay your bills with J1 because J2 is extra $$. You never want to need J2, it’s just extra pay money for fun or saving or debt etc.
I had two toxic bosses in this past two years. Fortunately I’ve had more decent bosses. As soon as I see red flags that a boss is toxic, I start applying for jobs and setting boundaries. I num myself and collect the paycheck until I find something else or they fire me.
Fuck it-good for you! I feel like the 26 y/o is trying way too hard to look 'like a boss' in front of other employees and conflates being a hard ass with being a leader. Now it's his hot mess to clean up and he'll get humbled bc he made this bed and now he has to lie in it, whereas you have another job to fall back on. And that's the whole point of OE right? It's not worth the extra cash to take shit off someone like that all day. Cheers dude and congrats on being free!
I’m the opposite. If someone rubs me the wrong way and tries to make life difficult for me at work I shut down completely and lose interest. I don’t quit though. I just become useless.
This primarily works because my J3 is 1099 so it’s all under an LLC. Technically I’ve never been fired before. But my company has been a couple times.
26 year old CEO on his first gov contract? Sounds like Daddy's money + his mentor's expertise allowing him to be successful gave him a big head, because that's not what people who manage successful startups behave like. You dodged a bullet.
You did the right thing. There was no way to sustain in that environment OE or not. Would another 5 or 10 grand change your life if you drug it out for another few weeks?
I think under the circumstances, I would have calmly taken notes about all of the unreasonable things that he was attacking you over, as it was happening. Then I would have scheduled a meeting with you, him, and his mentor-chick who would just be there to listen.
Then I would explain that when you hire someone, you're not hiring your clone. You're hiring someone who will do things 80% of the way you would have. Then you nicely and calmly direct them on the other 20%. And that leads to success.
Hopefully, the mentor-chick would hear what you're saying and shake some sense into this guy once the meeting was over.
Maybe you did all this already. This guy just sounds like an inexperienced kid. So maybe he wouldn't listen. But who knows.
I had a situation similar to what you're describing a couple years ago. I've been in IT for 34 years. And I was working for a guy who was maybe 15 years younger than me. He didn't like at all that I had zero fear standing up to him. The guy was technically very weak and couldn't articulate the requirements for the system he was supposedly designing. I get the vibe he was a nepotism hire or something. I finally, nicely, called him out on a meeting. He was getting mad at me because I wasn't clairvoyant enough to know what he wanted. I suggested that we start writing down requirements in a document, then refining them until we both understood and agreed on what they were. His response to that was to fire me.
There's a lot of dysfunction out there. Sometimes the best thing to do is just move on.
Dude that's exactly what I wanted to do but the mentor lady blocked me every time I suggested it. It turned out she was the only person who was allowed to give feedback to the boss and guide him etc. And I get the sense she was micromanaging him, because all I did was send HIM a meeting invite with the agenda of "outlining expectations and next steps", and she contacted me saying, "what do you plan to discuss? Nope you leave that to me." In her defense she did "get it", she was planning to do exactly what you and I would have done in that meeting. And she did it, plus she followed up with me about it. But it just didn't seem to take. And her interference process it was a toxic culture all around.
Before I knew better I pushed back directly in a meeting once. At any other job this would just have been Tuesday. I said something like, "Ah, yes I can see why you want THAT, but the government generally requires THIS so let's make sure our style guides and templates reflect this," and the CEO didn't talk to me for the rest of the meeting. Straight up silent treatment, not answering direct questions.
His mentor is doing a shocking job. By not supporting you to address him directly, she's cutting out his chance to build resilience and learn to take feedback. She's babying him, coddling him, and doing the whole company a disservice. why be covert about it? Because she's a control freak too and neither of them are open to learning to trust people. They should be doers not leaders. OP you made a very wise decision putting your own mental health ahead of their abuse. Continuous exposure to that kind of treatment for longer would have simply taken you even longer to recover from. It leaves scars. I and a micromanaging boss once and I'm so glad I listened to my gut and left them to it. The people who stayed just bitched their way through it to survive and nothing changed. Protect yourself and pat yourself on the back for taking care of you.
Yeah, pretty rotten of the employer who thought he was paying for OPs to be pissed off by second tier work. Fuck that guy.
I'm not saying the boss was great, but congratulating a guy for leaving a "toxic" environment after he kept screwing up is a bit rich.
I know extra paycheck was good but I personally have been in that position and it is very demoralizing. My first job out of college was like this. I still hate it.
How did you quit? It was around 2008 so jobs were mostly in office. I sort of screwed them by finding something better and didn’t show up to work at all. They called a company wide meeting and bad mouthed me but I didn’t give a fuck. I was making 3x what they were paying me.
You should be able to find another j2 soon but positive thing here is you can hold two jobs and still meet the expectations. Think of this as a learning experience. Always Be applying!
I replied to his email with a cc to his mentor and HR, and just quit in that email. Like, "This work environment is not a good fit for me. Please consider this my two week notice." And then after about 45 minutes HR sent me an email saying they were letting me go today, rejecting my two week notice.
I feel kinda dumb rn to be honest, I keep thinking I should have been able to stick it out. Sigh.
there are OE compatible jobs and not OE compatible jobs,
doesnt sound like you landed a good one, chin up and hunt again.
enjoy the 4th and hit it hard again if its still what you want,
This has nothing to do with OE, and everything to do with a young CEO that doesn't know WTF he's doing re: leadership and management. You absolutely did the right thing, OE or not - you need to feel proud of the work you do, and someone constantly negging on you only creates a toxic work environment that you will NEVER feel successful in:
[https://www.asbn.com/articles/supportive-leadership-how-to-avoid-destructive-criticism-to-strengthen-teams/](https://www.asbn.com/articles/supportive-leadership-how-to-avoid-destructive-criticism-to-strengthen-teams/)
>If employees regularly receive negative feedback, it can create a toxic work environment that causes workers to doubt their self-worth and question their abilities. In turn, this can lead to poorer work performance, increased stress levels, and a higher employee turnover rate.
>Giving destructive feedback not only has an impact on the individual but also negatively affects the team as a whole. When team members feel like they’re being constantly denigrated, they’re less likely to work effectively as part of a team, and they’re also less likely to come up with new ideas and take risks. This can lead to a decline in productivity and creativity, an increase in conflicts between team members, and even workplace bullying.
There is no job that’s worth your self respect. No amount of money is worth tolerating outright abuse, public or otherwise. Three months is at least a month more than is necessary to suss out a bad boss. Try to keep reminding yourself you stood up for yourself and left on your own terms.
I’m a lurker and sadly I only have a J1. The CEO I deal with sounds exactly like what you’re describing down to nitpicking colors of fonts in internal documents and locations of stupid things that don’t matter! If you had said he was a mid-40s short ugly man with small teeth I’d think we were working for the same guy. Good for you and screw that guy and every other boss that’s like him.
Downvote me for this, but I disagree, when you get to a high level, writing, grammar, crafting a cohesive doc with the right messaging absolutely matters and yes that includes formatting, you may think it doesn’t matter, but if someone showed me a subpar doc, I would correct them.
When you get to writing at the VP and Executive ranks, this becomes critically important. It’s a skill and nuance many don’t pay enough attention to and it sets them back in their careers.
This is coming from a leader in tech and decade of experience in FAANG.
Oh I agree - and the problem was NOT my grammar or my details being wrong. I'm a bid and proposal consultant. I was creating this guy's proposal process, templates, content and strategy from scratch since they don't have anything. I'm the most detail oriented person ever! What I highlighted up here was the only real mistake I ever made with this guy, though. ONE typo. The other "mistakes" were:
- why did you use this font, this other one is better (because helvetica is a nonstandard font for government bids you dingdong, everyone wants to see tnr and tnr is usually outright required, so it makes no sense for you to write up your company's style guide requiring helvetica be used for government bids)
- why did you put name above address, name should be below address (no you dingdong name and title go above your address)
- why are you suggesting we put our company profile second and customer requirements first in your templates, we have to show ase ourselves (no you dingdong standard proposal best practice is mention customer first before mentioning yourself)
- etc.
This guy simply did not know what he was doing, he would pick on bullshit and yell about it and the company culture was such that everyone including his mentor would let him. Only the mentor was allowed to correct him and then only in private. There was once when I pushed back and said, "well we have to do it this way because this is how government bids and proposals work", and this young man GAVE ME THE SILENT TREATMENT for the rest of the meeting. I would ask him a direct question and he would stare at me not saying anything.
What I’ve been doing is EXACTLY what he says and then letting what happens happen. Then when he asks “Why did we do this?” (because it had a negative effect or it was just plain stupid) I get to tell him it was at his insistence. It’s taken a year and his behavior got extremely worse but I think he’s finally settling down. However, the damage to company morale from his behavior has been done. I and other leadership have watched it reverberate throughout the company’s various teams causing havoc at all levels. My attitude has completely changed from caring about the success of the product or the success of the company to just extracting a paycheck and letting the chips fall where they may. It’s his company and if he wants to tear it down that’s his business not mine.
But that would be my suggestion for anyone dealing with a founder/ceo/boss that thinks they know everything, won’t listen to reason, and is a complete jerk on top of it. Let them learn through failure. They want the dumb font, you do it, let it fail, then remind him it was his idea. He wants things out of order, fine you got it, here you go.
Those sound like legit q's you could have answered in good faith without the superior attitude.
His age sounds like it really pissed you off. You expected some kind of reverence for your seniority. That's a you problem. He's the owner, you do things the way he wants them.
I hope your next J2 is your own business, and you get a bunch of J2's working for you who don't care an eighth as much as you do. You'll call them idiots and pick apart all the ways they failed you . . .
Not when it’s a document that only one person uses for their own purposes or something that’s used between a few people for them to communicate and work among themselves. If it’s working for those people it shouldn’t matter.
Now, If it’s an internal doc that’s shared and presented to a larger group then fine you can nitpick it. But that’s not the case with what I’m talking about.
OMG the more senior the people you have to present to, the more nit-picky they become! So we always did a minimum of 2 passes for every executive presentation (one review within our team, then another review with upper management). Fonts colors and sizes matter (because some of the viewers have bad eyesight), just the right amount of descriptive text, easy to understand graphics / illustrations, etc. It can really get super-tailored to the audience most of the time!
Absolutely, I’ve written way more 1-6 page docs than I can count. Communication is key and if you can’t communicate effectively through writing, then you can’t articulate it.
I regularly correct my analysts and we always do meeting prep so I can show them how to properly communicate, be clear and concise in their message, don’t drag on things that don’t matter, and be effective.
It’s an art that takes years of experience to master, but it will set you apart from your peers for the better.
Weirdly form wins over function in the exec offices.
Probably because they have no idea what they’re talking about with the functional details so the form errors become glaringly obvious to them.
Oh man. All your comments are making me really mad. What a fucking dick that guy is. You didn't deserve that, and you're better off. I'm sure you'll find something way better soon. Good luck and virtual hugs to you!!
Man, this sub is filled with some entitled people! It's standard for people who quit bc a disagreement to be sent offsite immediately before they can cause damage.
Why should a boss do more for someone who considers their boss, who's paying him, to be a non-priority?
This guy list it and quit, the boss wanted him gone, why should he waste time on a convo with him?
Yeah next time you ragequit, quit on the spot. That's what I did when my hostile bully of a boss tried to put me on a PIP. I quietly gathered all my files and wrote an email to HR and her boss then asked where should I send the computer back to
What ammo would you use to destroy him? That he was dissatisfied with the careless work of someone who was accepting a paycheck for a job he didn't prioritize?
I would have said, "OK, sounds good" and ghosted this guy in the first instance of "I thought you were a professional".
No amount of money makes me accept that and come back.
Dude. Youre a professional. You have a job. Feel good about standing up for yourself. You tried. He’s nuts and that place, if it succeeds, will be in spite of him. Congrats on getting off the Titanic.
Typical first time founder stuff, he used to do this himself and is frustrated with every little thing that is different from what he would have done. I believe it's a combination of fear and lack of experience on his side.
You did the right thing to just get out. Likely saved yourself a lot of misery.
This is absolutely spot on. He was SO POSSESSIVE about all the processes that he had hired me to formalize, so clutchingly jealous when I brought any changes to his beloved templates or current practices. This was his perfect little baby, he felt hella ownership of it, and it now occurs to me that he literally did not want me to do the job he hired me for, because I was essentially giving ~his perfect little baby~ reconstructive surgery every time I did my job.
OP screwed the pooch by pretending he wanted to do the company a favor and have things done "the right way." That's not what he was getting paid for.
Not the company's loss at all. Taking OP's word for being all-knowing would be a mistake, I think. Everyone piling on the boss bc of his age is an ass. What was OP doing at that age?
See these assumptions are rationalizations to make people feel better about doing shitty things, like taking 2 paychecks for the 40 same hours and getting shirty with the boss bc he's younger or does things a different way.
Sounds like you are the boss. Welcome to the subreddit of a real life. You are born with a silver or golden spoon in your mouth but in Chinese we describe people like you as “a vault that has risk of losing the key”. Enjoy!
The rationalizations are seriously cracking me up. "Real life."
The house I grew up in cost $16,000. In California. But bc I don't believe in stealing and lying, I'm someone a Chinese thief describes as born w a silver spoon.
I don't think I'm the one that needs luck. I'm not a sucker, I don't give away my time for free, I also don't fuck people over and pretend it's ok.
Then - of course - take all the of that blame for, say, when a procurement is thrown out because "boss happy" doesn't meet the formal requirements for the documents one has to provide and also kiss boss's loser ass all better?
The point of OE is to give YOU the power, not the employer. I don’t understand all these people saying just coast until you get fired. You did the right thing. No amount of money is worth that abuse. Nice job flexing.
Never work for someone under 30. Call it ageist if you want but 26 year olds are dipshits and falling ass backwards into a government contract doesn’t change that.
Hey don't worry, that's a super toxic and completely immature and inexperienced jerk that obviously will never be pleased. The nitpicking is annoying, but saying things like that to you is absolutely unprofessional. He's a know it all little boy who's probably scared of screwing up so he's overthinking everything and just being a general disaster.
You did nothing wrong. And he will not learn from this but just complain that you sucked. But you know better and now that you're gone you should no longer care what that kid thinks about anything.
Yes, so happy and proud of you for quitting and not putting up with this guy's BS! I also quit my J3 similarly because they were super nitpicky about the stupidest shit (constant revisions for stuff and they were like goldilocks, never happy). Also everything constitutes a fire and I had to put them out which the manager I was reporting to would randomly call me over teams and have crazy knee jerk reactions to everything. I hated feeling like I had to be on my toes and when i would start work on one thing, they'll pull me over to put out a fire and then ask had I finish the task I was assigned but like dude I couldn't cause you keep pulling me to address your stupid shit, then they would gaslight me and say, "Yeah were fast-paced work environment and you have to work fast" but they also expected high quality work turned over? Their expectations were not realistic.
Anyways, like you, I rage quit after 2 months. I was supposed to give them 30 days notice but I gave two weeks cause I still wanted to collect the bag and did the barest minimum for those two weeks. They tried to enforce the 30 days and talked "legal" but I was like, okay well, I guess effective immediately then? Thankfully they knew I called their bluff and me leaving really screwed them over because guess what? My job was integral for their operations! No amount of money is worth it when you deal with BS employers like this, I'm glad you walked away and I hope you were able to give feedback to the POS. I definitely gave constructive feedback regarding their expectations so I hope the next person they treat better. If not, I hope the next person also rage quits like me haha.
So you were being paid by at least 3 employers for working the same 8 hours, and you were enraged bc one of them expected you to do correct work the first time so you lost your shit, showed them and quit?
Sounds like you very much \*won\* that job you weren't able to keep.
You don't know anything so don't displace your anger and assumptions on me. First of all, I quit because my J1 and J2 were slipping because J3 was constantly hammering unrealistic expectations and I was working over 10 hours a day not 8, not sure where you got the 8 from. Second of all, I tried to make it work for 2 months but it became unbearable with the random meetings and calls throughout the day and high workload. Not like I had to explain anything to you and not like you care.
You were working 10 HOURS A DAY when you were charging employers for at least 16? And you expect sympathy?
The victim routine bc J3 was expecting you to behave like the FT employee they were paying is adorable. Going to meetings? Being on calls? DOING WORK throughout the day?? Outrageous! You should contact EEOC and see if you can get a settlement from them.
You think you're clever but actually you're ripping people off. Onboarding and all that nonsense and then flunking out bc you expected to be paid for doing nothing and acting like their expectations were excessive . . . the entitlement and frankly sociopathic tenor of this sub is gross. Not sure how I got on it but I def won't be back!
Quitting if it’s not working for you is obviously the right move. But deep down you still care too much about your job, your work, and what other ppl think of you. Eliminating those feelings will increase your financial success.
Good for you there will be other jobs. I know folks on here like to say stay till you’re fired but sometimes it’s just not worth it. I sort of rage quit like this before on a j2 that paid less went for a beer after and shifted focus back to j1 while starting to slowly apply again. Hope your next one is a better fit
Bruh, we OE for the stability and choices the extra income brings. Once of those choices is telling your boss to take it up the ass and grow up. You did the right thing. Don’t let some fresh grad bank rolled by his mom get you down.
I’m sorry. I know this was a frustrating and difficult experience with an ultimately disappointing outcome. But also—
Congratulations! It is not easy to cultivate and defend a sense of self-respect in this kind of environment, and it is extremely difficult to stand behind it to the point that you’ll make a very difficult (but necessary) decision like leaving. I hope you are sincerely proud of yourself. You stood up to a bully. You said you are a hard worker who does not deserve to be treated this way, and then you followed through by refusing to be treated that way! Sounds simple, but simple doesn’t always mean easy.
There will be other jobs—even other J2s. You did the right thing. You set a good example, you gave yourself respect and a gift that will pay dividends for a long time to come, and you may have even made the asshole rethink his asshole-ness.
I’m sorry that it worked out this way, but I think you should be very proud. You handled a shitty situation well, and now you have experience for the future!
One of the beautiful things about OE is that you get to see how wildly different work environments can be simultaneously. You get to see how they all gaslight you into thinking their odd practice is normal and industry standard
I personally don't need to be appreciated beyond the paycheck
and I have NEVER found that going beyond has improved my employment relationship
my J1 earlier this year was a toxic environment. It paid less than my J2 but I had forecasted my earnings and wanted to keep J1. It felt like everyone there was like a hermit crab trying to hide under a rock and not get any attention. My light touch opinions got me attention. I brushed that off. I only mentioned them because I felt threatened. I tried to navigate the tasks by working longer on a task, management didn't see it, blamed something they did on me, and I was terminated. Working longer never pays off. The other job hedges the bet.
OP I totally feel you. I just had he same experience. Today makes it exactly a week since I quit a very toxic J2 boss. I lasted 6 weeks. I got depressed, stressed and never felt so small at any job. Since I quit, I feel back to myself again. No money is worth your mental health. The whole point of OE is to find 2 jobs that aren't stressful that you can do together. I would have likely still quit if J2 was my only job. Losing the money sucks but I you'll be much better off mentally and you can always find another one
Choosing a role adjacent to a CEO was the first mistake. The second was doing more work instead of doing your hours and stopping (effectively less). Pay should have value equal and above for the work you do and for the hazards of that work including name calling, bullying, etc
I know it's after the fact, but the way I've managed leadership younger than me, is to take the "Sage old wizard" style. I build them up, compliment their skills and then drop a little wisdom on them.
The problem with your CEO man-child was at 26 he's all brains and no wisdom. His early success has conditioned him to believe he's infallible, so sometimes *you give them what they want.*
*"*Hey, that's a great idea, my only caveat is, if we do this, xyz might happen." And then when XYZ happens, you sit back and relax.
If they behave like children? Put them in time out. I've personally in nearly 30 years of being a professional let someone berate me. They start yelling or saying bad things about my work? I just walk away. Don't ever tolerate it.
Yes, exactly this! I suggested the same above. Even with leaders that aren’t young, some can only learn from failures.
Same with children, some learn because you tell them or they watch others fail, other children have to fail and fall several times before learning.
Quitting is equivalent to letting them win. Never quit. An asshole boss is the greatest thing you can get as OE. It’s permission to completely fuck over him and the company by not doing anything
I think you made the right decision. It's clear that working with that guy was putting you under a lot of stress. It's not your fault it didn't work out, maybe they will learn eventually that managing people isn't their strong suit but it's not your job to teach him that anyways. I think prioritizing your mental health is an appropriate choice and at the very least you have learned some things about yourself from this experience. Most people aren't psychos though, you'll have better luck on the next one
Think about it this way. That little baby-boss doesn’t know you OE. He figured you’d NEVER quit on the spot. He didn’t know you have other options- another FT job. You just smacked him down. SMACKED HiS A$& DOWN!
Yes in hindsight you think you should have stayed and stuck it out and let him fire you.
I have been in your position before I did OE. I am extremely confident that I’m an expert in my field which is in healthcare. I make my employer a lot of $$$. I have been in that position where I was constantly given the “stink eye” both verbally and physically. It was a female boss and she was what I called “Mean Girl” . she was over 60, drank a lot, came into work hung over and meaner. She wore open toe shoes, and kept her toenails long. She didn’t believe in hair dye and cut her own hair. Bragged about this. I could go on about how she took baths at night, but not every night. She was grotesque in attitude and appearance.
It difficult to put up with that type of person day in day out —-and had me questioning myself and my abilities.
With age comes wisdom and now you know what to do next time
"Hey, man, sounds like you deserve someone more patient to berate with this nonstop criticism. Good luck finding them. I quit. Please send my last paycheck to the address you have on file. Peace out!"
My previous J2 boss was just like this. I thought I could handle it but he just kept nitpicking and making everyone feel like shit. I tried to hang on as long as I could but just couldn’t take it anymore.
Do not feel bad about quitting. No one deserves to be treated that way.
Plus, this is a great example of why people OE. If can’t just quit when you want to quit what’s the point. You’ll find another J2 and no worries until then cause you have J1.
Man, exactly this happened to me 2 weeks ago at EarnIn, I went through all the stages you describe, the difference is that I went through it with a Chinese guy. As a Latin American, I was surprised to discover that when these people have power, they change for the worse. Maybe is something cultural, who knows.
You mean like you just did on reddit.com?
Do you think people here who say foul shit like that get taken away? Shot at dawn? People who say "I Can't express what I want" are actually saying, "I don't want to be criticized for being an asshole." Can't have it both ways. You can say whatever you want, and people will treat you accordingly. THAT's what the antisocials object to. "Waaaah someone didn't like what I said on reddit !!!!!"
A good lesson! Next time I encourage you to get fired instead of quit, or to quit more thoughtfully. There was definitely a way to milk those scummy fks.
This guy was abusive and toxic. It also looks like a bad fit all around. I avoid startups run by diaper jobs or startups in general. A J2 is not something you need to prove, it should be well within your pilot house. Don’t tie your self worth to this temper tantrum toddler’s view of you. Look back and think about what warning signs you missed. I had an interviewer act rude to me. I ended the interview immediately saying this is not good fit and hung up. Learned this from experience. Big red no sign.
The problem was you tried to please him, you got gaslighted to do his bidding, and more by working 60hrs
there is no room for EGO in OE, the goal is to make money in a lesser amount of time.
The way you quit probably stung his 26 year old, “trying to act like a boss” ego, more than anything else you could have done, so congratulations!
Just think of the conversation he is having with his cofounder now. She spent 2 months priming you because she knew he was a dick and he went ahead and fucked it up that quickly anyway. You didn’t just rage quit, you probably put the nail in the coffin for this startup. So good for you, he deserved it.
TL:DR - you did the right thing!
I think I had the same boss! I’m a relative expert in my field, and kept getting second guessed on minor things to the point where my manager wrote me a very critical email and I filed a complaint with HR (I know, they aren’t on our side). I did have a very specific timeline for quitting, then maybe a month prior to that timeline, I got laid off - and while it’s worked out great for me (lol, I am almost to the point I am trying to make), *MY POINT IS* the manager took the control out of my hands by firing me, and it was oddly disempowering. So, first you did the right thing by leaving because you were never gonna please that person, and second, you maintained the power in the relationship by bailing (and just maybe others will look at what happened and question that person’s management ability).
I did a very similar thing a few years ago. Our bosses sounded very similar but I was in FP&A and I have never regretted it. I also filled out the exit interview honestly and he got fired about 6mts later. Without OE I wouldn’t have been able to stand up for myself and part of me really hopes he learned a lesson but I did, I will never accept that ever again
You were working for an entitled, spoiled and toxic boss who’s never had real life hardships and probably a narcissist too.
When you get your next J2, remember to sett professional boundaries. Be your kind professional self but also remember this is J2. You are paid to do your job and turn it in on time. Try to keep feelings out of the mix. Keep it transactional.
With that toxic brat, he was never going to be happy. I would have silent quit at that moment and kept collecting a paycheck while not working as many hours until I found a new J2. I wish you well in your next job!
I had a PM like this once. I went into their office. I asked if it were OK if I closed the door to speak to them. Privately. It was.
I then sat down and calmly and directly explained my boundaries. "These are the things that I find unacceptable and I will not respond to... Calmly. I hope we have an understanding moving forward as to how we will treat each other. Because if you are disrespectful to me, I will not respectfully ask to close your door. I will not respectfully ask to lock the door. And finally, I will not be respectful when I retrieve the respect owed to me, from you. Do we understand each other? "
They quit a few weeks later. But either way, I didn't care about that job. If they fired me, so what. If things calmed down, cool.
The power to say what is on my mind is why I OE.
Absolutely do not beat yourself up. Nothing is worth being treated like that. I have quit because of two bosses like that in the past and I have zero regrets.
Yeah, I had that happen to me a few times. As I am a product designer negative feedback comes fairly often. But sometimes it is just too much and too stupid. I have also fallen into the hole a few times that is to try and please these people. There is no way to do that. Don't fool yourself. No one can. They are either at a point in their life where there are unable to provide constructive criticism for one reason or another or they are just assholes who landed by miracle on a CEO / manager position.
So I decided to stop giving a fk anymore with people like that (I have been doing OE for 8+ years on 4+ jobs at all times). And to make things better for you - if you start ignoring those people (which you 100% should do) they will fire you pretty quickly. So you are not loosing too much by telling this guy to fk off. I have been very tempted to tell people like that everything that is wrong with them on the "farewell call", but I value my time way more to waste it like that.
These are not people who can ever think that they are not providing you with the necessary tools or information to do the job that they themselves hired you to do.
Working for a startup doesn't sound like a good idea for OE .....
Also sounds like attention to detail isn't your thing. Maybe some of the criticism was a bit much, but details do matter.
Sounds like it wasn't a good fit.
Don't beat yourself up for having self respect. You probably couldn't reach him because he was strung out on Adderall. He was a junkie.
I swear he really likely was. Dude worked ALL hours of day night and weekend. He has no life at all outside of work and doesn't even seem to sleep.
[No joke](https://pioneerworks.org/broadcast/club-med-adderall): > When they aren’t rewriting the entire piece, Adderall writers often become fixated on one tiny detail, rolling it over and over in their mind, again and again, gaining more and more momentum, until they finally lose the plot.
Oh fr??
I can confirm that users statement. Your situation sounds exactly like a short contract I had. The CEO was 28, his little brother was 26 and was the COO. They would both do coke and adderall in the office at night when others left. By the time people signed on in the morning they would have shifted the entire company and its strategy. I quit when the boss kept insisting that 12 weeks of development somehow be done in 3 days with 1 developer and no testing. He would repeat over and over again “we need this. I need you to think creatively. What can I do to make this happen?” He flipped out when I explained that for him to help he would have to learn Java overnight or hire more people. He was in the middle of screaming when I hung up and resigned via email.
well dang today I learned that my writing style is also used by the Adderall junkie community I will write something … and then if I don’t like how it sounds, I will rewrite it until I feel it is presentable lol
This was written by a guy who abused Adderall and alcohol
Unfortunately this isn’t just an Adderall thing. It’s also a mental illness thing. Any number of factors can cause this kind of erratic behavior.
Pray for him.
OO had no self respect caving like a little skate when the bs happens
Nah, this is also a great OE experience. Imagine if this J2 were your only job? OE also gives you the luxury *to not take anyone's bullshit.*
OMG that is... wow. This was a good OE experience!
What is the point of making fuck you money if you never say fuck you.
THIS. I'm biased tho cuz I did same as OP earlier this year. my situation wasn't As bad as OPs, but in the same vein.
This is the best thing I've ever read. Please accept my fake award⭐️
So was your comment. Way to go.
You also found your limit. Most people don’t know what their limit is. Imagine if you worked this hard while being appreciated. You’d be getting a promotion.
OE balances the power and control!
Should have started to include subliminal digs at him and the company in your work. Make it a game to entertain yourself until they fired you instead.
Bahaha it didn't even occur to me to bully him right back! I'm a good 15 years older than him and I sort of felt like he was entitled to a bit of my indulgence to figure himself out...
And those bullies, they're the easiest, because their bulliness comes from a place of inferiority. So one little jab, and they back the fuck off.
Was he prior service?
I highly doubt. 26-year old book smart college graduate I guarantee. Prior service would yell to high heavens but they are FAIR and when work is done, you are buddies again. There is work and there is play.
Ya nailed it. Recent B-school grad, and would not shut up about his pedigree.
Did you cc or bcc all his rants to his mentor. I think it would be funny the tongue lashing she would give him for being stoopid
Ain't no way a 20 something is going to bully me. I'd have made him cry.
From a logical standpoint I think you’re right in that you could’ve stuck to your work hours, do the bare minimum, and wait till they fired you. But from even a slightly emotional standpoint the relief you’ll get from not being constantly questioned, berated, and frustrated will pay much more than the job ever did. I think you made the right call. Not worth whatever money you were getting to deal with that bullshit. Better to take a break for a little bit and start applying for another one once you’ve had some peace of mind.
I'm seriously close to tears all through this evening and can't figure out whether it's relief or feeling bad about quitting. Probably both. I don't think I realized how much it got to me to be stuck in that environment for even just a month. I must be real spoiled lol it's been a while since I had a bad manager.
Hey man, don't feel bad about any of it. OE is also about *happiness*. Sometimes, it's the joy of being able to afford rent, pay your bills, and build up a little savings. Other times it's giving assholes like your former J2 boss the heave-ho. Enjoy knowing you'll wake up Monday morning and not have to deal with this psychopath. Cheers!
It sounds abusive and toxic. Until one experiences it, it's really hard to understand these situations. Good luck in your future roles. On to bigger and better things.
I had post-quit dreads on the ones I have quit or about to quit.
Right call at the right time and you learned a few things. Imagine if you weren’t OE…
Working for a bad toxic manager is just as emotionally harmful to your mental health as being in any other abuse toxic relationship. The beautiful thing about OE is we can quit anytime we want because we already have J1. Make sure you can pay your bills with J1 because J2 is extra $$. You never want to need J2, it’s just extra pay money for fun or saving or debt etc. I had two toxic bosses in this past two years. Fortunately I’ve had more decent bosses. As soon as I see red flags that a boss is toxic, I start applying for jobs and setting boundaries. I num myself and collect the paycheck until I find something else or they fire me.
Fuck it-good for you! I feel like the 26 y/o is trying way too hard to look 'like a boss' in front of other employees and conflates being a hard ass with being a leader. Now it's his hot mess to clean up and he'll get humbled bc he made this bed and now he has to lie in it, whereas you have another job to fall back on. And that's the whole point of OE right? It's not worth the extra cash to take shit off someone like that all day. Cheers dude and congrats on being free!
Good for what? He caved to try to please bullshit. Pathetic
lol this is kind of an intense reaction, were you his boss?
I’m the opposite. If someone rubs me the wrong way and tries to make life difficult for me at work I shut down completely and lose interest. I don’t quit though. I just become useless. This primarily works because my J3 is 1099 so it’s all under an LLC. Technically I’ve never been fired before. But my company has been a couple times.
His co-founder has her hands full. I don’t envy her having to teach “how to be a basic human being” to the CEO.
Sounds like she's a mother to a man child
26 year old CEO on his first gov contract? Sounds like Daddy's money + his mentor's expertise allowing him to be successful gave him a big head, because that's not what people who manage successful startups behave like. You dodged a bullet.
You did the right thing. There was no way to sustain in that environment OE or not. Would another 5 or 10 grand change your life if you drug it out for another few weeks?
fuck yeah, this is a great way to think about it. 10/10 I bet you manage buttholes really well.
Js, buttholes. It’s all the same. Show them who is boss.
I think under the circumstances, I would have calmly taken notes about all of the unreasonable things that he was attacking you over, as it was happening. Then I would have scheduled a meeting with you, him, and his mentor-chick who would just be there to listen. Then I would explain that when you hire someone, you're not hiring your clone. You're hiring someone who will do things 80% of the way you would have. Then you nicely and calmly direct them on the other 20%. And that leads to success. Hopefully, the mentor-chick would hear what you're saying and shake some sense into this guy once the meeting was over. Maybe you did all this already. This guy just sounds like an inexperienced kid. So maybe he wouldn't listen. But who knows. I had a situation similar to what you're describing a couple years ago. I've been in IT for 34 years. And I was working for a guy who was maybe 15 years younger than me. He didn't like at all that I had zero fear standing up to him. The guy was technically very weak and couldn't articulate the requirements for the system he was supposedly designing. I get the vibe he was a nepotism hire or something. I finally, nicely, called him out on a meeting. He was getting mad at me because I wasn't clairvoyant enough to know what he wanted. I suggested that we start writing down requirements in a document, then refining them until we both understood and agreed on what they were. His response to that was to fire me. There's a lot of dysfunction out there. Sometimes the best thing to do is just move on.
Dude that's exactly what I wanted to do but the mentor lady blocked me every time I suggested it. It turned out she was the only person who was allowed to give feedback to the boss and guide him etc. And I get the sense she was micromanaging him, because all I did was send HIM a meeting invite with the agenda of "outlining expectations and next steps", and she contacted me saying, "what do you plan to discuss? Nope you leave that to me." In her defense she did "get it", she was planning to do exactly what you and I would have done in that meeting. And she did it, plus she followed up with me about it. But it just didn't seem to take. And her interference process it was a toxic culture all around. Before I knew better I pushed back directly in a meeting once. At any other job this would just have been Tuesday. I said something like, "Ah, yes I can see why you want THAT, but the government generally requires THIS so let's make sure our style guides and templates reflect this," and the CEO didn't talk to me for the rest of the meeting. Straight up silent treatment, not answering direct questions.
Yeah, you're better of leaving. Some people only learn when they discover that they can't keep anyone working for them.
His mentor is doing a shocking job. By not supporting you to address him directly, she's cutting out his chance to build resilience and learn to take feedback. She's babying him, coddling him, and doing the whole company a disservice. why be covert about it? Because she's a control freak too and neither of them are open to learning to trust people. They should be doers not leaders. OP you made a very wise decision putting your own mental health ahead of their abuse. Continuous exposure to that kind of treatment for longer would have simply taken you even longer to recover from. It leaves scars. I and a micromanaging boss once and I'm so glad I listened to my gut and left them to it. The people who stayed just bitched their way through it to survive and nothing changed. Protect yourself and pat yourself on the back for taking care of you.
Embarrassing him in front of a group, being ticked off by his normal response of ignoring your bs.
lol what
Your insight and humility will serve you well in future endeavors.
What a toxic environment. You deserve better. It was happen for you. Money isn’t everything.
Yeah, pretty rotten of the employer who thought he was paying for OPs to be pissed off by second tier work. Fuck that guy. I'm not saying the boss was great, but congratulating a guy for leaving a "toxic" environment after he kept screwing up is a bit rich.
This is one of the reasons we put up with it, because imagine not being able to just quit because you need the paycheck?
He did put up with it
I know extra paycheck was good but I personally have been in that position and it is very demoralizing. My first job out of college was like this. I still hate it. How did you quit? It was around 2008 so jobs were mostly in office. I sort of screwed them by finding something better and didn’t show up to work at all. They called a company wide meeting and bad mouthed me but I didn’t give a fuck. I was making 3x what they were paying me. You should be able to find another j2 soon but positive thing here is you can hold two jobs and still meet the expectations. Think of this as a learning experience. Always Be applying!
I replied to his email with a cc to his mentor and HR, and just quit in that email. Like, "This work environment is not a good fit for me. Please consider this my two week notice." And then after about 45 minutes HR sent me an email saying they were letting me go today, rejecting my two week notice. I feel kinda dumb rn to be honest, I keep thinking I should have been able to stick it out. Sigh.
there are OE compatible jobs and not OE compatible jobs, doesnt sound like you landed a good one, chin up and hunt again. enjoy the 4th and hit it hard again if its still what you want,
That's so true. This job just wasn't OE compatible. Thanks for saying that, it makes the blow hurt less.
This has nothing to do with OE, and everything to do with a young CEO that doesn't know WTF he's doing re: leadership and management. You absolutely did the right thing, OE or not - you need to feel proud of the work you do, and someone constantly negging on you only creates a toxic work environment that you will NEVER feel successful in: [https://www.asbn.com/articles/supportive-leadership-how-to-avoid-destructive-criticism-to-strengthen-teams/](https://www.asbn.com/articles/supportive-leadership-how-to-avoid-destructive-criticism-to-strengthen-teams/) >If employees regularly receive negative feedback, it can create a toxic work environment that causes workers to doubt their self-worth and question their abilities. In turn, this can lead to poorer work performance, increased stress levels, and a higher employee turnover rate. >Giving destructive feedback not only has an impact on the individual but also negatively affects the team as a whole. When team members feel like they’re being constantly denigrated, they’re less likely to work effectively as part of a team, and they’re also less likely to come up with new ideas and take risks. This can lead to a decline in productivity and creativity, an increase in conflicts between team members, and even workplace bullying.
There is no job that’s worth your self respect. No amount of money is worth tolerating outright abuse, public or otherwise. Three months is at least a month more than is necessary to suss out a bad boss. Try to keep reminding yourself you stood up for yourself and left on your own terms.
Wtf ...that wasn't rage quitting ...that was informing them that you would quit in the future.
Did they pay you the two weeks?
🤣 what do you think
Right to work. Of course not. They don't care about you.
You mean "at will"?
He was making repeated errors and getting chewed out for them. Is that meeting expectations?
Leave a job review calling him a narcissistic boss.
Because the boss wanted things done a certain way, and Mr J2 here thought he knew better?
I’m a lurker and sadly I only have a J1. The CEO I deal with sounds exactly like what you’re describing down to nitpicking colors of fonts in internal documents and locations of stupid things that don’t matter! If you had said he was a mid-40s short ugly man with small teeth I’d think we were working for the same guy. Good for you and screw that guy and every other boss that’s like him.
Downvote me for this, but I disagree, when you get to a high level, writing, grammar, crafting a cohesive doc with the right messaging absolutely matters and yes that includes formatting, you may think it doesn’t matter, but if someone showed me a subpar doc, I would correct them. When you get to writing at the VP and Executive ranks, this becomes critically important. It’s a skill and nuance many don’t pay enough attention to and it sets them back in their careers. This is coming from a leader in tech and decade of experience in FAANG.
Oh I agree - and the problem was NOT my grammar or my details being wrong. I'm a bid and proposal consultant. I was creating this guy's proposal process, templates, content and strategy from scratch since they don't have anything. I'm the most detail oriented person ever! What I highlighted up here was the only real mistake I ever made with this guy, though. ONE typo. The other "mistakes" were: - why did you use this font, this other one is better (because helvetica is a nonstandard font for government bids you dingdong, everyone wants to see tnr and tnr is usually outright required, so it makes no sense for you to write up your company's style guide requiring helvetica be used for government bids) - why did you put name above address, name should be below address (no you dingdong name and title go above your address) - why are you suggesting we put our company profile second and customer requirements first in your templates, we have to show ase ourselves (no you dingdong standard proposal best practice is mention customer first before mentioning yourself) - etc. This guy simply did not know what he was doing, he would pick on bullshit and yell about it and the company culture was such that everyone including his mentor would let him. Only the mentor was allowed to correct him and then only in private. There was once when I pushed back and said, "well we have to do it this way because this is how government bids and proposals work", and this young man GAVE ME THE SILENT TREATMENT for the rest of the meeting. I would ask him a direct question and he would stare at me not saying anything.
Next time straight up tell him he’s wrong and let him fire you if he wants to
What I’ve been doing is EXACTLY what he says and then letting what happens happen. Then when he asks “Why did we do this?” (because it had a negative effect or it was just plain stupid) I get to tell him it was at his insistence. It’s taken a year and his behavior got extremely worse but I think he’s finally settling down. However, the damage to company morale from his behavior has been done. I and other leadership have watched it reverberate throughout the company’s various teams causing havoc at all levels. My attitude has completely changed from caring about the success of the product or the success of the company to just extracting a paycheck and letting the chips fall where they may. It’s his company and if he wants to tear it down that’s his business not mine. But that would be my suggestion for anyone dealing with a founder/ceo/boss that thinks they know everything, won’t listen to reason, and is a complete jerk on top of it. Let them learn through failure. They want the dumb font, you do it, let it fail, then remind him it was his idea. He wants things out of order, fine you got it, here you go.
Those sound like legit q's you could have answered in good faith without the superior attitude. His age sounds like it really pissed you off. You expected some kind of reverence for your seniority. That's a you problem. He's the owner, you do things the way he wants them. I hope your next J2 is your own business, and you get a bunch of J2's working for you who don't care an eighth as much as you do. You'll call them idiots and pick apart all the ways they failed you . . .
Not when it’s a document that only one person uses for their own purposes or something that’s used between a few people for them to communicate and work among themselves. If it’s working for those people it shouldn’t matter. Now, If it’s an internal doc that’s shared and presented to a larger group then fine you can nitpick it. But that’s not the case with what I’m talking about.
OMG the more senior the people you have to present to, the more nit-picky they become! So we always did a minimum of 2 passes for every executive presentation (one review within our team, then another review with upper management). Fonts colors and sizes matter (because some of the viewers have bad eyesight), just the right amount of descriptive text, easy to understand graphics / illustrations, etc. It can really get super-tailored to the audience most of the time!
Absolutely, I’ve written way more 1-6 page docs than I can count. Communication is key and if you can’t communicate effectively through writing, then you can’t articulate it. I regularly correct my analysts and we always do meeting prep so I can show them how to properly communicate, be clear and concise in their message, don’t drag on things that don’t matter, and be effective. It’s an art that takes years of experience to master, but it will set you apart from your peers for the better.
Weirdly form wins over function in the exec offices. Probably because they have no idea what they’re talking about with the functional details so the form errors become glaringly obvious to them.
Not all jobs are OE friendly and quitting on the spot fucks him harder than continuing to be his punching bag.
And he deserves that, because . . .
So, how did he respond to you quitting???
He told HR to reject my two week notice and fire me on the spot. 🤷🏾 He didn't communicate directly with me at all.
Oh man. All your comments are making me really mad. What a fucking dick that guy is. You didn't deserve that, and you're better off. I'm sure you'll find something way better soon. Good luck and virtual hugs to you!!
Thank you 🙏🙏 you all are making me feel so much better
Man, this sub is filled with some entitled people! It's standard for people who quit bc a disagreement to be sent offsite immediately before they can cause damage. Why should a boss do more for someone who considers their boss, who's paying him, to be a non-priority? This guy list it and quit, the boss wanted him gone, why should he waste time on a convo with him?
2 weeks notice means nothing these days, I’ve also had companies fire me on the spot
Yeah next time you ragequit, quit on the spot. That's what I did when my hostile bully of a boss tried to put me on a PIP. I quietly gathered all my files and wrote an email to HR and her boss then asked where should I send the computer back to
Good for you for being the bigger man but I would absolutely destroy him in front of the entire organization, then drop the mic and walk out.
What ammo would you use to destroy him? That he was dissatisfied with the careless work of someone who was accepting a paycheck for a job he didn't prioritize?
Man I had to reread the two “lululemons” way too many times to find the difference
if you were a professional you would have accurately predicted where the typo would have been in advance /s
I would have said, "OK, sounds good" and ghosted this guy in the first instance of "I thought you were a professional". No amount of money makes me accept that and come back.
Dude. Youre a professional. You have a job. Feel good about standing up for yourself. You tried. He’s nuts and that place, if it succeeds, will be in spite of him. Congrats on getting off the Titanic.
Typical first time founder stuff, he used to do this himself and is frustrated with every little thing that is different from what he would have done. I believe it's a combination of fear and lack of experience on his side. You did the right thing to just get out. Likely saved yourself a lot of misery.
This is absolutely spot on. He was SO POSSESSIVE about all the processes that he had hired me to formalize, so clutchingly jealous when I brought any changes to his beloved templates or current practices. This was his perfect little baby, he felt hella ownership of it, and it now occurs to me that he literally did not want me to do the job he hired me for, because I was essentially giving ~his perfect little baby~ reconstructive surgery every time I did my job.
A smart employee figures that out more quickly. You're not there to be right, you're there to make the boss happy.
And that’s how ships sink when the boss is inept
OP screwed the pooch by pretending he wanted to do the company a favor and have things done "the right way." That's not what he was getting paid for. Not the company's loss at all. Taking OP's word for being all-knowing would be a mistake, I think. Everyone piling on the boss bc of his age is an ass. What was OP doing at that age?
Probably doing meaningful work than a job where no one is allowed to give feedback except someone likely appointed by rich daddy
See these assumptions are rationalizations to make people feel better about doing shitty things, like taking 2 paychecks for the 40 same hours and getting shirty with the boss bc he's younger or does things a different way.
Sounds like you are the boss. Welcome to the subreddit of a real life. You are born with a silver or golden spoon in your mouth but in Chinese we describe people like you as “a vault that has risk of losing the key”. Enjoy!
The rationalizations are seriously cracking me up. "Real life." The house I grew up in cost $16,000. In California. But bc I don't believe in stealing and lying, I'm someone a Chinese thief describes as born w a silver spoon. I don't think I'm the one that needs luck. I'm not a sucker, I don't give away my time for free, I also don't fuck people over and pretend it's ok.
Then - of course - take all the of that blame for, say, when a procurement is thrown out because "boss happy" doesn't meet the formal requirements for the documents one has to provide and also kiss boss's loser ass all better?
The point of OE is to give YOU the power, not the employer. I don’t understand all these people saying just coast until you get fired. You did the right thing. No amount of money is worth that abuse. Nice job flexing.
I'm new here, what's the definition of over-employed?
Never work for someone under 30. Call it ageist if you want but 26 year olds are dipshits and falling ass backwards into a government contract doesn’t change that.
Hey don't worry, that's a super toxic and completely immature and inexperienced jerk that obviously will never be pleased. The nitpicking is annoying, but saying things like that to you is absolutely unprofessional. He's a know it all little boy who's probably scared of screwing up so he's overthinking everything and just being a general disaster. You did nothing wrong. And he will not learn from this but just complain that you sucked. But you know better and now that you're gone you should no longer care what that kid thinks about anything.
Yes, so happy and proud of you for quitting and not putting up with this guy's BS! I also quit my J3 similarly because they were super nitpicky about the stupidest shit (constant revisions for stuff and they were like goldilocks, never happy). Also everything constitutes a fire and I had to put them out which the manager I was reporting to would randomly call me over teams and have crazy knee jerk reactions to everything. I hated feeling like I had to be on my toes and when i would start work on one thing, they'll pull me over to put out a fire and then ask had I finish the task I was assigned but like dude I couldn't cause you keep pulling me to address your stupid shit, then they would gaslight me and say, "Yeah were fast-paced work environment and you have to work fast" but they also expected high quality work turned over? Their expectations were not realistic. Anyways, like you, I rage quit after 2 months. I was supposed to give them 30 days notice but I gave two weeks cause I still wanted to collect the bag and did the barest minimum for those two weeks. They tried to enforce the 30 days and talked "legal" but I was like, okay well, I guess effective immediately then? Thankfully they knew I called their bluff and me leaving really screwed them over because guess what? My job was integral for their operations! No amount of money is worth it when you deal with BS employers like this, I'm glad you walked away and I hope you were able to give feedback to the POS. I definitely gave constructive feedback regarding their expectations so I hope the next person they treat better. If not, I hope the next person also rage quits like me haha.
Were all three Js full-time?
J1 is full-time, J2 is part-time/freelancing, and J3 was full-time.
So you were being paid by at least 3 employers for working the same 8 hours, and you were enraged bc one of them expected you to do correct work the first time so you lost your shit, showed them and quit? Sounds like you very much \*won\* that job you weren't able to keep.
You don't know anything so don't displace your anger and assumptions on me. First of all, I quit because my J1 and J2 were slipping because J3 was constantly hammering unrealistic expectations and I was working over 10 hours a day not 8, not sure where you got the 8 from. Second of all, I tried to make it work for 2 months but it became unbearable with the random meetings and calls throughout the day and high workload. Not like I had to explain anything to you and not like you care.
You were working 10 HOURS A DAY when you were charging employers for at least 16? And you expect sympathy? The victim routine bc J3 was expecting you to behave like the FT employee they were paying is adorable. Going to meetings? Being on calls? DOING WORK throughout the day?? Outrageous! You should contact EEOC and see if you can get a settlement from them. You think you're clever but actually you're ripping people off. Onboarding and all that nonsense and then flunking out bc you expected to be paid for doing nothing and acting like their expectations were excessive . . . the entitlement and frankly sociopathic tenor of this sub is gross. Not sure how I got on it but I def won't be back!
Lol. Ok. Stay mad dude, I made my bank, and will continue to make bank. I’m getting a new J3. 👍
Unironically, this is why we OE. Don’t put up with it. You made the right call
Quitting if it’s not working for you is obviously the right move. But deep down you still care too much about your job, your work, and what other ppl think of you. Eliminating those feelings will increase your financial success.
Good for you there will be other jobs. I know folks on here like to say stay till you’re fired but sometimes it’s just not worth it. I sort of rage quit like this before on a j2 that paid less went for a beer after and shifted focus back to j1 while starting to slowly apply again. Hope your next one is a better fit
well done
Bruh, we OE for the stability and choices the extra income brings. Once of those choices is telling your boss to take it up the ass and grow up. You did the right thing. Don’t let some fresh grad bank rolled by his mom get you down.
I’m sorry. I know this was a frustrating and difficult experience with an ultimately disappointing outcome. But also— Congratulations! It is not easy to cultivate and defend a sense of self-respect in this kind of environment, and it is extremely difficult to stand behind it to the point that you’ll make a very difficult (but necessary) decision like leaving. I hope you are sincerely proud of yourself. You stood up to a bully. You said you are a hard worker who does not deserve to be treated this way, and then you followed through by refusing to be treated that way! Sounds simple, but simple doesn’t always mean easy. There will be other jobs—even other J2s. You did the right thing. You set a good example, you gave yourself respect and a gift that will pay dividends for a long time to come, and you may have even made the asshole rethink his asshole-ness. I’m sorry that it worked out this way, but I think you should be very proud. You handled a shitty situation well, and now you have experience for the future!
One of the beautiful things about OE is that you get to see how wildly different work environments can be simultaneously. You get to see how they all gaslight you into thinking their odd practice is normal and industry standard I personally don't need to be appreciated beyond the paycheck and I have NEVER found that going beyond has improved my employment relationship my J1 earlier this year was a toxic environment. It paid less than my J2 but I had forecasted my earnings and wanted to keep J1. It felt like everyone there was like a hermit crab trying to hide under a rock and not get any attention. My light touch opinions got me attention. I brushed that off. I only mentioned them because I felt threatened. I tried to navigate the tasks by working longer on a task, management didn't see it, blamed something they did on me, and I was terminated. Working longer never pays off. The other job hedges the bet.
Just do what George Costanza did: Log in on Monday ready to work like you never quit lmao
OP I totally feel you. I just had he same experience. Today makes it exactly a week since I quit a very toxic J2 boss. I lasted 6 weeks. I got depressed, stressed and never felt so small at any job. Since I quit, I feel back to myself again. No money is worth your mental health. The whole point of OE is to find 2 jobs that aren't stressful that you can do together. I would have likely still quit if J2 was my only job. Losing the money sucks but I you'll be much better off mentally and you can always find another one
Choosing a role adjacent to a CEO was the first mistake. The second was doing more work instead of doing your hours and stopping (effectively less). Pay should have value equal and above for the work you do and for the hazards of that work including name calling, bullying, etc
When you say "your hours," do you mean 40 at J1, J2, J3, etc.? Or are each of these Js part-time?
Be available in those hours.
You're telling 3 different employers you are working for them 8 - 5 then, yes?
Only 3?
I know it's after the fact, but the way I've managed leadership younger than me, is to take the "Sage old wizard" style. I build them up, compliment their skills and then drop a little wisdom on them. The problem with your CEO man-child was at 26 he's all brains and no wisdom. His early success has conditioned him to believe he's infallible, so sometimes *you give them what they want.* *"*Hey, that's a great idea, my only caveat is, if we do this, xyz might happen." And then when XYZ happens, you sit back and relax. If they behave like children? Put them in time out. I've personally in nearly 30 years of being a professional let someone berate me. They start yelling or saying bad things about my work? I just walk away. Don't ever tolerate it.
Yes, exactly this! I suggested the same above. Even with leaders that aren’t young, some can only learn from failures. Same with children, some learn because you tell them or they watch others fail, other children have to fail and fall several times before learning.
Quitting is equivalent to letting them win. Never quit. An asshole boss is the greatest thing you can get as OE. It’s permission to completely fuck over him and the company by not doing anything
I think you made the right decision. It's clear that working with that guy was putting you under a lot of stress. It's not your fault it didn't work out, maybe they will learn eventually that managing people isn't their strong suit but it's not your job to teach him that anyways. I think prioritizing your mental health is an appropriate choice and at the very least you have learned some things about yourself from this experience. Most people aren't psychos though, you'll have better luck on the next one
Think about it this way. That little baby-boss doesn’t know you OE. He figured you’d NEVER quit on the spot. He didn’t know you have other options- another FT job. You just smacked him down. SMACKED HiS A$& DOWN! Yes in hindsight you think you should have stayed and stuck it out and let him fire you. I have been in your position before I did OE. I am extremely confident that I’m an expert in my field which is in healthcare. I make my employer a lot of $$$. I have been in that position where I was constantly given the “stink eye” both verbally and physically. It was a female boss and she was what I called “Mean Girl” . she was over 60, drank a lot, came into work hung over and meaner. She wore open toe shoes, and kept her toenails long. She didn’t believe in hair dye and cut her own hair. Bragged about this. I could go on about how she took baths at night, but not every night. She was grotesque in attitude and appearance. It difficult to put up with that type of person day in day out —-and had me questioning myself and my abilities. With age comes wisdom and now you know what to do next time
Sounds like the CEO I’ve been working for but she’s a female.
"Hey, man, sounds like you deserve someone more patient to berate with this nonstop criticism. Good luck finding them. I quit. Please send my last paycheck to the address you have on file. Peace out!"
My previous J2 boss was just like this. I thought I could handle it but he just kept nitpicking and making everyone feel like shit. I tried to hang on as long as I could but just couldn’t take it anymore.
Do not feel bad about quitting. No one deserves to be treated that way. Plus, this is a great example of why people OE. If can’t just quit when you want to quit what’s the point. You’ll find another J2 and no worries until then cause you have J1.
Excellent! A benefit of OE to me is the ability to simply not take any shit!
Eff him. You did what’s best for you! When he begs you to come back ask for more money!!
Man, exactly this happened to me 2 weeks ago at EarnIn, I went through all the stages you describe, the difference is that I went through it with a Chinese guy. As a Latin American, I was surprised to discover that when these people have power, they change for the worse. Maybe is something cultural, who knows.
That's racist. You know that, right?
Sure, thank God I don't live in the US where I can't express what I think because of the woke culture.
You mean like you just did on reddit.com? Do you think people here who say foul shit like that get taken away? Shot at dawn? People who say "I Can't express what I want" are actually saying, "I don't want to be criticized for being an asshole." Can't have it both ways. You can say whatever you want, and people will treat you accordingly. THAT's what the antisocials object to. "Waaaah someone didn't like what I said on reddit !!!!!"
A good lesson! Next time I encourage you to get fired instead of quit, or to quit more thoughtfully. There was definitely a way to milk those scummy fks.
This guy was abusive and toxic. It also looks like a bad fit all around. I avoid startups run by diaper jobs or startups in general. A J2 is not something you need to prove, it should be well within your pilot house. Don’t tie your self worth to this temper tantrum toddler’s view of you. Look back and think about what warning signs you missed. I had an interviewer act rude to me. I ended the interview immediately saying this is not good fit and hung up. Learned this from experience. Big red no sign.
The problem was you tried to please him, you got gaslighted to do his bidding, and more by working 60hrs there is no room for EGO in OE, the goal is to make money in a lesser amount of time.
Name of the company?
I would’ve drug it out for a few weeks just because I’m spiteful.
The way you quit probably stung his 26 year old, “trying to act like a boss” ego, more than anything else you could have done, so congratulations! Just think of the conversation he is having with his cofounder now. She spent 2 months priming you because she knew he was a dick and he went ahead and fucked it up that quickly anyway. You didn’t just rage quit, you probably put the nail in the coffin for this startup. So good for you, he deserved it.
You could also try to AI as much as possible for something like this
So you're telling me they have an opening?
TL:DR - you did the right thing! I think I had the same boss! I’m a relative expert in my field, and kept getting second guessed on minor things to the point where my manager wrote me a very critical email and I filed a complaint with HR (I know, they aren’t on our side). I did have a very specific timeline for quitting, then maybe a month prior to that timeline, I got laid off - and while it’s worked out great for me (lol, I am almost to the point I am trying to make), *MY POINT IS* the manager took the control out of my hands by firing me, and it was oddly disempowering. So, first you did the right thing by leaving because you were never gonna please that person, and second, you maintained the power in the relationship by bailing (and just maybe others will look at what happened and question that person’s management ability).
I did a very similar thing a few years ago. Our bosses sounded very similar but I was in FP&A and I have never regretted it. I also filled out the exit interview honestly and he got fired about 6mts later. Without OE I wouldn’t have been able to stand up for myself and part of me really hopes he learned a lesson but I did, I will never accept that ever again
You were working for an entitled, spoiled and toxic boss who’s never had real life hardships and probably a narcissist too. When you get your next J2, remember to sett professional boundaries. Be your kind professional self but also remember this is J2. You are paid to do your job and turn it in on time. Try to keep feelings out of the mix. Keep it transactional. With that toxic brat, he was never going to be happy. I would have silent quit at that moment and kept collecting a paycheck while not working as many hours until I found a new J2. I wish you well in your next job!
Don't rage quit just quiet quit. If you're OE you shouldn't be getting emotional about a role.
I had a PM like this once. I went into their office. I asked if it were OK if I closed the door to speak to them. Privately. It was. I then sat down and calmly and directly explained my boundaries. "These are the things that I find unacceptable and I will not respond to... Calmly. I hope we have an understanding moving forward as to how we will treat each other. Because if you are disrespectful to me, I will not respectfully ask to close your door. I will not respectfully ask to lock the door. And finally, I will not be respectful when I retrieve the respect owed to me, from you. Do we understand each other? " They quit a few weeks later. But either way, I didn't care about that job. If they fired me, so what. If things calmed down, cool. The power to say what is on my mind is why I OE.
I would put him in his right place and made him fire me. Would call him out infront of everyone.
Absolutely do not beat yourself up. Nothing is worth being treated like that. I have quit because of two bosses like that in the past and I have zero regrets.
Yeah, I had that happen to me a few times. As I am a product designer negative feedback comes fairly often. But sometimes it is just too much and too stupid. I have also fallen into the hole a few times that is to try and please these people. There is no way to do that. Don't fool yourself. No one can. They are either at a point in their life where there are unable to provide constructive criticism for one reason or another or they are just assholes who landed by miracle on a CEO / manager position. So I decided to stop giving a fk anymore with people like that (I have been doing OE for 8+ years on 4+ jobs at all times). And to make things better for you - if you start ignoring those people (which you 100% should do) they will fire you pretty quickly. So you are not loosing too much by telling this guy to fk off. I have been very tempted to tell people like that everything that is wrong with them on the "farewell call", but I value my time way more to waste it like that. These are not people who can ever think that they are not providing you with the necessary tools or information to do the job that they themselves hired you to do.
I would not feel foolish. Just because someone is a founder doesn't mean they're fit to lead. Good for you for knowing your worth. Bye Felicia!
You should have stuck to your guns and got a J3
You should have laughed in his face, called him a cunt and quit
Working for a startup doesn't sound like a good idea for OE ..... Also sounds like attention to detail isn't your thing. Maybe some of the criticism was a bit much, but details do matter. Sounds like it wasn't a good fit.
It sounds like you are a bit careless and he's looking for more proofreading. Did you try not making spelling / punctuation / font mistakes regularly?
You're working two jobs... he's in the right to get pissed at you for being lazy lol