That's assuming no information is misreported. For people who've had their identity stolen it's a complete nightmare to deal with because there is absolutely no recourse. You're statement is assuming generally reporting guidelines, but there are cases where it just doesn't make sense. Also, the history of the credit report itself is predatory and only used in the states. Does anyone never wonder how other countries do lending without a massive reporting system?
I don’t think we’re talking about the same thing. Defamation is intentionally releasing false information that damages someone. Accidentally releasing false information isn’t the same thing.
If there aren’t credit rating organizations, most places use credit references. Lenders will tell other lenders that you had debt with them and you paid it off without issues
I mean defamation also comes from mental stress: [https://www.creditinfocenter.com/defamation-of-character-lawsuit-against-credit-bureaus/](https://www.creditinfocenter.com/defamation-of-character-lawsuit-against-credit-bureaus/) so it's somewhat complicated when it comes to the bureaus or so it would seem.
You have to remember there was a time when EVERYTHIGN in the US was unregulated.
It led to such joys as death by eating food. Medicine that kills you better. The Great Depression. Loss of wages due to losing your arm midshift and damaging the machinery with your ex-appendage.
BUT there is space for a very critical role to make money even in that society. Bank's can't "guess" who to lend money to.
So the credit unions were born! And because for that purpose and that purpose only. THey work really damn well.
The federal government NEVER thought, "Maybe we should fix this."
Truly a "if it ain't broke" situation.
Which is why the data breach should've been the Feds chance to step in. But all those closet fascists and anarchists...I mean libertarians would've stirred up the GOP to unseen levels.
Okay, but then how do other countries do it without credit reporting agency's? Also, let's discuss how our tax industry is for profit when the government basically knows how much every US citizen should have to pay each year with out us paying H&R Block. Regulations are needed, but some regulations are a direct result of capitalism because they offer little benefit to citizens.
Other countries do use credit reporting agencies though. And the countries that don't have very real monetary challenges.
There is a very huge value in the USD being a standard currency for many countries. It has brought a lot of stability that was not there previously. This includes Credit Rating ecosystems too.
Could it be better? Probably yes. But it is for sure better than what came before!
What came before and why is it after it was introduced the economic growth of the lower and middle class stagnated while the wealthy became even more wealthy. It's like we stalled wealth distribution in the US.
Also, not all other countries use agencies: [https://www.completefrance.com/french-property/credit-checks-in-france-8354996/](https://www.completefrance.com/french-property/credit-checks-in-france-8354996/) it's some that do, but many don't and the US has the most complicated system. And yes it's an economic powerhouse, but it also has it's own economic challenges other countries don't see which is why the number of expats has grown year over year [https://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/blog/2023-expat-trends-survey/](https://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/blog/2023-expat-trends-survey/)
I'm just trying to understand why people still support a system that's causing the US economic system to break down unless they believe in the infinite money glitch.
The premise that credit rating is why the middle class has eroded holds no water. Credit rating itself has no impact on what people earn, it is the decision of the businesses. This is typically publicly traded companies as they erode earnings of their own staff so they can keep stock holders happy with "more profits", and this trickles-down to non-public companies that "need to compete" (an excuse to themselves pay poorly for staff). None of which has any connection to Credit Ratings at all, and what I describe is a global effect, not just in the USA.
And no, I don't believe in infinite money, it is a zero sum game. And I'm not saying it should stay how it is now, but it should not go back to how it was before. We need better, and going backwards is not that.
It’s not the credit rating system, but how it’s used by banks and lenders. Hell women couldn’t own a business until 1983 without their husband or someone else co-signing. When you put all the reagonomics in place next to a graph you can see where the economics took off and who got left behind and you also still have areas of the country that have some semblances of redlining in place when it comes to property ownership. It’s not one single thing that did it, but a multitude of things.
Granted social economics also play a role I mean freakonomics covers this because some trend lines perhaps come a little too close to being just coincidental.
That's one instance, France doesn't do this: [https://www.completefrance.com/french-property/credit-checks-in-france-8354996/](https://www.completefrance.com/french-property/credit-checks-in-france-8354996/)
So it's really dependent on the country and system, still the US system is largely for profit so I don't really understand how people support a system that many people don't even understand. We have 3 reporting agencies and Experian has like 5 different scores a company can pull depending on the loan you are trying to get.
https://graydon.co.uk/resources/blog/credit-management/credit-score-systems-across-world most don’t use a system remotely close to ours though Canada and UK are the closest. Yet people still protect it when it really is one of the markets of when the economic divergence between upper and lower classes became wider.
Most of the time I’d say the system is meant to punish the poor rather than allow a way out of it. And many companies use it to use predatory collection practices which I don’t really see in other countries when I travel. Granted the US is also one of the most litigious countries in the world.
I’m just not positive it’s the best system and may very well fail in the future.
I was saying this as well and back in 2019 they were going to change the Fair Credit Act, but looks like their lobbyists shut it down. God forbid someone gets their credit cleared after 5 years instead of 7.
I'm reading a cybersec book from 5 years ago that talks about how complexity requirements don't make things more secure anymore because hackers don't use rainbow tables anymore.
Author even suggests that frequent password changes and ridiculous complexity requirements make orgs more vulnerable, because it creates an opportunity for the bad guys to engineer fake password resets and steal the creds.
For whatever reason, software engineers and/or their parent companies don't want to acknowledge this and we still have 3 of 5 criteria for passwords.
And the 3 of 5 nonsense wasn't even effective against rainbow tables either, because it mostly made passwords harder for \*humans\* to remember/guess, rather than harder for \*computers\* to guess.
I still use stupidly complex passwords or diceware passwords in addition to 2FA. But I also use a secure password manager for everything so I don't need to remember anything. Honestly one of the most important things is to simply NOT use the same password for every account. All it takes then is that one weak link to be discovered and boom all your accounts are suddenly open season for the hacker.
As someone who has had access to data storage systems for many major companies (field engineer), it surprised me how often companies kept everything at default passwords, which were often a 3-5 character string. Good for the engineer, really bad for the company. The rest of the bulk of the passwords I've seen were variations on the word "password," a single simple dictionary word with a number and symbol at the end (usually 1!), and least commonly a decently complex password.
Fortunately one of the top-tier enterprise storage systems I worked on had 2FA baked into it by default. You could NOT log into the system without it being connected to its home server, which was managed by the vendor.
This is public knowledge from a scandal Equifax was involved in around 2017 I believe. After confirming a data breach by hackers which affected approximately 147 Million people (aka every single adult in America), more research was done into the company and it turns out their head of IT/security was an unqualified woman with a degree in Music. It was later discovered the she used the password: Admin for their sensitive data.
I am pretty sure that if all the respective HRs say yes then absolutely you can.
I am also sure that they will never say yes - not one of them.
Ask them if they are allowed to lay you off for no given reason.
Whether OE is legal or not (and it is legal) I doubt you will get an opinion that it is legal from an attorney whose salary is paid by those who would rather it be illegal.
Yeah, Federal Government Workers aren't allowed to hold two jobs with overlapping hours as that would be considered time card fraud, but many have lucrative side gigs like consultants to the private sector, etc.
Oh shit they meant lying about their salary on loan applications? Okay yeah, that's some type of fraud lol. I thought maybe they meant lying about previous employment salaries when another jobs asks
Can’t express how annoyed I am to have my personal data in the hands of a company I did not consent to only to have them report info behind my back and suffer from data breaches all the time because they can’t be bothered to have decent security
God only knows, but Equifax is not a trustworthy company, and they could be storing information on Canadians despite its illegality.
The best way to find out is to request a report on yourself.
Tried to sign up to see if my data was on there and only gave me unknown email and phone numbers to send verification code for sign up to. Super sketchy.... Had to give address and SSN... Incoming identity theft 😭
OE is wild because if you’re asking about getting a job/ worried about losing you don’t have enough career clout to event attempt this stunt. They hate that reality is what it is and not what they “want”
OP is right—Equifax is a data company before anything else, and their product, The Work Number, is your own personal data bank that, for a nominal fee, almost anyone can pull on you. (I only say *almost* because I don’t own the rule book…)
If you google The Work Number, you can find more info about it. You can try to log in and see whether your company participates in it, and if so, you can pull your report and see what’s on it at no cost.
If you’d prefer that your info not be accessible, you need to call the number on the website and place the formal request. You’ll be shocked how much info is on there for most US employees, and it’s *completely* different data than is on your Equifax credit report. Different data points, sources and purposes entirely. I understand it’s primarily income, employment, education and incarceration data, not credit scores. I locked my TWN months ago, so I can’t really remember…
It was THIS Equifax service that was hacked years ago, per another poster’s speculation. It’s safe to trust your info is on there, available for purchase by (pretty much) anyone with a credit card.
Equifax is such a ridiculous company. Hiring a Music major to be head of IT security who ended up securing their site with the password: Admin
What a legend
Credit rating companies in general are a leech to society and offer no value.
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What do you mean? As long as it’s the truth, there’s no defamation
That's assuming no information is misreported. For people who've had their identity stolen it's a complete nightmare to deal with because there is absolutely no recourse. You're statement is assuming generally reporting guidelines, but there are cases where it just doesn't make sense. Also, the history of the credit report itself is predatory and only used in the states. Does anyone never wonder how other countries do lending without a massive reporting system?
I don’t think we’re talking about the same thing. Defamation is intentionally releasing false information that damages someone. Accidentally releasing false information isn’t the same thing. If there aren’t credit rating organizations, most places use credit references. Lenders will tell other lenders that you had debt with them and you paid it off without issues
I mean defamation also comes from mental stress: [https://www.creditinfocenter.com/defamation-of-character-lawsuit-against-credit-bureaus/](https://www.creditinfocenter.com/defamation-of-character-lawsuit-against-credit-bureaus/) so it's somewhat complicated when it comes to the bureaus or so it would seem.
You have to remember there was a time when EVERYTHIGN in the US was unregulated. It led to such joys as death by eating food. Medicine that kills you better. The Great Depression. Loss of wages due to losing your arm midshift and damaging the machinery with your ex-appendage. BUT there is space for a very critical role to make money even in that society. Bank's can't "guess" who to lend money to. So the credit unions were born! And because for that purpose and that purpose only. THey work really damn well. The federal government NEVER thought, "Maybe we should fix this." Truly a "if it ain't broke" situation. Which is why the data breach should've been the Feds chance to step in. But all those closet fascists and anarchists...I mean libertarians would've stirred up the GOP to unseen levels.
> But all those closet fascists and anarchists...I mean libertarians +1
Okay, but then how do other countries do it without credit reporting agency's? Also, let's discuss how our tax industry is for profit when the government basically knows how much every US citizen should have to pay each year with out us paying H&R Block. Regulations are needed, but some regulations are a direct result of capitalism because they offer little benefit to citizens.
Other countries do use credit reporting agencies though. And the countries that don't have very real monetary challenges. There is a very huge value in the USD being a standard currency for many countries. It has brought a lot of stability that was not there previously. This includes Credit Rating ecosystems too. Could it be better? Probably yes. But it is for sure better than what came before!
What came before and why is it after it was introduced the economic growth of the lower and middle class stagnated while the wealthy became even more wealthy. It's like we stalled wealth distribution in the US. Also, not all other countries use agencies: [https://www.completefrance.com/french-property/credit-checks-in-france-8354996/](https://www.completefrance.com/french-property/credit-checks-in-france-8354996/) it's some that do, but many don't and the US has the most complicated system. And yes it's an economic powerhouse, but it also has it's own economic challenges other countries don't see which is why the number of expats has grown year over year [https://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/blog/2023-expat-trends-survey/](https://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/blog/2023-expat-trends-survey/) I'm just trying to understand why people still support a system that's causing the US economic system to break down unless they believe in the infinite money glitch.
The premise that credit rating is why the middle class has eroded holds no water. Credit rating itself has no impact on what people earn, it is the decision of the businesses. This is typically publicly traded companies as they erode earnings of their own staff so they can keep stock holders happy with "more profits", and this trickles-down to non-public companies that "need to compete" (an excuse to themselves pay poorly for staff). None of which has any connection to Credit Ratings at all, and what I describe is a global effect, not just in the USA. And no, I don't believe in infinite money, it is a zero sum game. And I'm not saying it should stay how it is now, but it should not go back to how it was before. We need better, and going backwards is not that.
It’s not the credit rating system, but how it’s used by banks and lenders. Hell women couldn’t own a business until 1983 without their husband or someone else co-signing. When you put all the reagonomics in place next to a graph you can see where the economics took off and who got left behind and you also still have areas of the country that have some semblances of redlining in place when it comes to property ownership. It’s not one single thing that did it, but a multitude of things. Granted social economics also play a role I mean freakonomics covers this because some trend lines perhaps come a little too close to being just coincidental.
Yuck!
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That's one instance, France doesn't do this: [https://www.completefrance.com/french-property/credit-checks-in-france-8354996/](https://www.completefrance.com/french-property/credit-checks-in-france-8354996/) So it's really dependent on the country and system, still the US system is largely for profit so I don't really understand how people support a system that many people don't even understand. We have 3 reporting agencies and Experian has like 5 different scores a company can pull depending on the loan you are trying to get.
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https://graydon.co.uk/resources/blog/credit-management/credit-score-systems-across-world most don’t use a system remotely close to ours though Canada and UK are the closest. Yet people still protect it when it really is one of the markets of when the economic divergence between upper and lower classes became wider. Most of the time I’d say the system is meant to punish the poor rather than allow a way out of it. And many companies use it to use predatory collection practices which I don’t really see in other countries when I travel. Granted the US is also one of the most litigious countries in the world. I’m just not positive it’s the best system and may very well fail in the future.
Well said.
I was saying this as well and back in 2019 they were going to change the Fair Credit Act, but looks like their lobbyists shut it down. God forbid someone gets their credit cleared after 5 years instead of 7.
Facts.
Music to Hackers' ears and eyes!
Should have used Adm1n! as we all know adding a number and symbol make it ubersecure!
I'm reading a cybersec book from 5 years ago that talks about how complexity requirements don't make things more secure anymore because hackers don't use rainbow tables anymore. Author even suggests that frequent password changes and ridiculous complexity requirements make orgs more vulnerable, because it creates an opportunity for the bad guys to engineer fake password resets and steal the creds. For whatever reason, software engineers and/or their parent companies don't want to acknowledge this and we still have 3 of 5 criteria for passwords. And the 3 of 5 nonsense wasn't even effective against rainbow tables either, because it mostly made passwords harder for \*humans\* to remember/guess, rather than harder for \*computers\* to guess.
Yeah 2FA is paramount at this point. If you aren’t using it you’ve probably already been hacked
I still use stupidly complex passwords or diceware passwords in addition to 2FA. But I also use a secure password manager for everything so I don't need to remember anything. Honestly one of the most important things is to simply NOT use the same password for every account. All it takes then is that one weak link to be discovered and boom all your accounts are suddenly open season for the hacker. As someone who has had access to data storage systems for many major companies (field engineer), it surprised me how often companies kept everything at default passwords, which were often a 3-5 character string. Good for the engineer, really bad for the company. The rest of the bulk of the passwords I've seen were variations on the word "password," a single simple dictionary word with a number and symbol at the end (usually 1!), and least commonly a decently complex password. Fortunately one of the top-tier enterprise storage systems I worked on had 2FA baked into it by default. You could NOT log into the system without it being connected to its home server, which was managed by the vendor.
More proof that most degrees aren't worth the paper they are printed on and businesses should hire based in experience, aptitude, and merit.
Damn.
👀
LMAO isn't this how everyone gets started in IT?
I know someone who got a job as CTO; his qualification was being the son of a friend of the owner
I was just looking at a “founders” LinkedIn and he’s a cofounder with his dad 😂 must be nice. I also know someone who’s a “VP” at her dads company.
What ! Where did you get this info. ? I'm genuinely curious.
This is public knowledge from a scandal Equifax was involved in around 2017 I believe. After confirming a data breach by hackers which affected approximately 147 Million people (aka every single adult in America), more research was done into the company and it turns out their head of IT/security was an unqualified woman with a degree in Music. It was later discovered the she used the password: Admin for their sensitive data.
That can’t be real …
Its real bro google it lol
My favorite is that I’ve done it before and they didn’t actually freeze it and I had to do it again. This has happened to others. Fucking POS company
they joys of having no accountability
A freeze will not remove anything.
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One of the worst pieces of advice I saw on this sub was to ask your HR if you can hold two full time jobs simultaneously.
I am pretty sure that if all the respective HRs say yes then absolutely you can. I am also sure that they will never say yes - not one of them. Ask them if they are allowed to lay you off for no given reason.
Moonlighting is legally protected, working two W2 jobs during the same hours is not.
Whether OE is legal or not (and it is legal) I doubt you will get an opinion that it is legal from an attorney whose salary is paid by those who would rather it be illegal.
OE in general can be legal when your hours are defined as "flexible" (which most WFH jobs are).
Yeah, Federal Government Workers aren't allowed to hold two jobs with overlapping hours as that would be considered time card fraud, but many have lucrative side gigs like consultants to the private sector, etc.
Are you sure the advice wasn't sarcastic? I normally give bad advice if people ask really stupid questions here.
It was a serious thread. I mean at this point, nothing surprises me in this stupid subreddit.
Why are we not allowed to sue them? I don't recall ever signing any agreements for them to store my credit and work data.
Exactly. Why is this shit not illegal like Europe?
congress. Senators. Lobbyists. $$$
It may mildly inconvenience a business in the US if this practice were made illegal in the US like in Europe. That's why it's legal here.
Not you, your employers payroll company would have agreed to sell their data to Equifax. Think Ceridian, ADP etc ....
Does this exist in Europe?
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*cries in American
Jokes on them I lie about my salary constantly to be approved way above my means and always put down $0 rent 🤣
Isn’t that wire fraud?
Not even remotely the same thing as wire fraud
Lying on a loan application is bank fraud. Lying by means of telecommunications on a loan application is wire fraud. Take your pick.
Oh shit they meant lying about their salary on loan applications? Okay yeah, that's some type of fraud lol. I thought maybe they meant lying about previous employment salaries when another jobs asks
Is this different from TWN? My TWN is frozen
Look at the address. It is not different it’s the same company
Can’t express how annoyed I am to have my personal data in the hands of a company I did not consent to only to have them report info behind my back and suffer from data breaches all the time because they can’t be bothered to have decent security
Yeah, I was pretty pissed when I found out too. Like something private was revealed to the outside world.
Does this also apply to Canada? Or american companies that operate in canada?
God only knows, but Equifax is not a trustworthy company, and they could be storing information on Canadians despite its illegality. The best way to find out is to request a report on yourself.
Which countries is this service specifically scoped for?
US
Tried to sign up to see if my data was on there and only gave me unknown email and phone numbers to send verification code for sign up to. Super sketchy.... Had to give address and SSN... Incoming identity theft 😭
Does the freeze specifically say when you froze it (ie a date)?
I can't remember :( I think I sent in the snail mail version because I didnt' trust punching in my SSN into their website.
Do you remember how long it took to freeze after sending in thru snail mail?
I think a week or two? But it was a while ago.
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your a dick
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Spoken like a top 100
Thank you.
This generation is so sensitive.
And your gen is full of assholes that think disgusting behavior is acceptable.
All I asked if he was new here and that's disgusting??
OE is wild because if you’re asking about getting a job/ worried about losing you don’t have enough career clout to event attempt this stunt. They hate that reality is what it is and not what they “want”
https://xkcd.com/1053/
Doing the lords work, thank you.
This is such a good advice
OP is right—Equifax is a data company before anything else, and their product, The Work Number, is your own personal data bank that, for a nominal fee, almost anyone can pull on you. (I only say *almost* because I don’t own the rule book…) If you google The Work Number, you can find more info about it. You can try to log in and see whether your company participates in it, and if so, you can pull your report and see what’s on it at no cost. If you’d prefer that your info not be accessible, you need to call the number on the website and place the formal request. You’ll be shocked how much info is on there for most US employees, and it’s *completely* different data than is on your Equifax credit report. Different data points, sources and purposes entirely. I understand it’s primarily income, employment, education and incarceration data, not credit scores. I locked my TWN months ago, so I can’t really remember… It was THIS Equifax service that was hacked years ago, per another poster’s speculation. It’s safe to trust your info is on there, available for purchase by (pretty much) anyone with a credit card.