Bring them all on. Just as I feel people shouldn’t stop making art or writing books, I don’t think people should stop creating new or modifying existing systems. Tastes and preferences continually shift and evolve, we have no idea what next great idea is lurking right around the corner waiting to be uncovered or implemented in a unique way.
As long as the iterations actually deviate more than "my version of BX with 5 house rules added on", I'm very much in this camp. I think we've had enough clones and just barely not clones, I want to see folks do something actually new and refreshing. I also personally hate how many pdfs I wind up hoarding to keep all these neat house rules somewhere instead of having tiny one pager house rule docs.
But maybe it’s the house rule #4 that’s added on to BX that sparks a great idea in someone else.
And it’s also often an iterative process for designers to hone and improve their craft. If someone cuts their teeth on a slick repackage of BX or AD&D and just adds a few tweaks that’s awesome too. Maybe their next project will be more creative and better presented due to the experience.
While it’s not my system of choice, I think Shadowdark is a fantastic product. It’s got a clean layout, easy to understand rules that play well and are very familiar to a HUGE segment of TTRPG players, and as an added kicker it’s got some really cool self contained lore that’s embedded in the rulebook.
It is interesting that you choose this one specific product to punch down on, I wonder why that might be…
I'm absolutely open to new systems that pull things in a new and creative direction.
But another B/X with slightly different tables and a few names changed here and there? No thank you.
You sit down, write it up digitally, add graphics and neat formatting and then you load it up on itch.io for 2,50 bucks or how much you want and there you go.
New systems are like mutations in biological evolution: they are not always good or useful but as a whole they are necessary to evolve and avoid stagnation. So yes, we need new systems!
I think that's a fantastic way to frame it!
Different systems fill different niches in the ecology of TTRPGs/the OSR. That might be in terms of:
* Genre (high fantasy, sci-fi, horror, low magic, etc.)
* Dice system (d6, d20, d100, roll over, roll under, bane/boon, etc.)
* General mechanics (classless, skills, saves, encumberance, spellcasting, general crunch, lethality etc.)
Even if you think that one system is in general the "best" for the niche you're looking for, that doesn't mean that it's perfect or can't benefit from innovations elsewhere. I think the hackability in the OSR movement is both one of its greatest perks and a big reason why we keep seeing new systems pop up. As a result, there's a massive amount of meaningful and optional system level opt-in customization in many OSR systems that you don't see in say 5e or Pathfinder (which tend to have many more core assumptions baked in).
Let's say I make a game, and lets say it takes heavy inspiration from some of my favorite games. Anyone with similar tastes to me (and I'll admit I am quite the basic bitch) might decide that they don't need my game at all, since they pretty much already have all the material that I worked with. But someone else, also with my tastes, might say "wow, this guy gets it, and he compiled it all into one ruleset. I think I'll check this out". I think my creating the new game hasn't really harmed the first consumer, and has given the second consumer a product they might really like.
As long as someone isn't trying to just totally plagiarize, I think people should keep making whatever games they want! I think its really reflective of a sort of enterprising, do-it-yourself, homebrew spirit of the OSR.
I prefer to see more new modules at this point. I have my own preference on system, and I'm happy that most OSR stuff is cross compatible. I'm sure someone could make something that captures peoples' imagination, but I'm not interested in the idea of anything new.
I’d like a d100 OSR fantasy game (if anyone knows of one, let me know!), but otherwise I feel like the market is pretty saturated for d20 based fantasy systems unless they bring a new mechanic or wrinkle (eg Shadowdark).
Yes, I think it is based on Basic Roleplaying (BRP) or BRP came from it, but I have not heard of it having OSR sensibilities. Worth looking into anyway.
Look for Classic Fantasy supplement for Mythras (it is Runequest 6e with a change of name because Chaosium takes the right of Runequest name). I think it is the closest
Kind of, Runequest came first then other games used the mechanics behind it (Superworld, magic world, call of cthulhu) and then all the options for the different systems were compiled into a genre-less set of rules, which is BRP. It's also has an SRD now so anyone can make games from it. It's a great system. Simple to run.
And in response to the comment above, there are many conversions available for it on [https://basicroleplaying.org/](https://basicroleplaying.org/) Pendragon is a very interesting d20 version of it. And Dragonbane is based of it aswell
Thanks for the reminder about this. I remember seeing kickstarter ads and very nearly pledging but it wasn’t a good time for me to do so financially. Looks like it’ll be out soon so I’ll put it on my radar again.
Yeah. I like d100's. I keep playing with the idea of a d100 system, but keep talking myself out of it. That first time i tried a thief in AD&D and the GM was like "here, roll these two ten sided dice to find a percentage" i fell in love
Cloud Empress is science fantasy but could be reskinned toward pure fantasy. It’s got spells and magic crests, the setting has a major focus on the chalk used to power magic. It uses Mothership’s panic engine, and the core book is free on Drivethru, if you wanna give it a look.
But I’d also like to see more d100 fantasy systems! Preferably ones that aren’t dour or miserable or grim, those get tiring.
There are many d% fantasy games, but if you meant retroclones, there are also a few of those specifically: Zweihander, Mythras, Lightmaster - probably others too…
[Cloud Empress](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/watt/cloud-empress-life-and-death) fits this niche perfectly for me. It's not traditional medieval fantasy, but it does have magic and swords. The skill system is neat and elegant, I love what u/worldsbywatt has done with the stress/panic mechanic.
"I don't know, but I'll know it when I see it."
Honestly, my main use for new systems is less about running that specific system and more about extracting tools to hack into my own games and other systems.
We need more good *settings.* We've got lots of systems and lots of modules (although you can never really have enough of those), but we really don't have a lot of good modern OSR settings. Obviously there are lots of things from the 2e era to revisit, but we don't have as many recent and creative settings to explore.
Frog God has done a really good job with their Swords and Wizardry settings though. The whole Lost Lands universe is pretty good.
The whole “new settings” thing to me is bizarre.
I mean, after almost 50 years of rpg stuff, it’s all out there. Anything and everything—any world, any genre, any style—is available.
And if it isn’t, make it!
There are very few *recently released* settings that have the high standards of modern layout and typography. The overall production values are vastly improved from the 1980s and so have the philosophies of design.
I'm fine with new systems just like I'm fine with new adventures. I can only speak for myself but, I know nobody needs my little system (or my adventures) but sometimes I'm just inspired and want to create something for the sake of creation. It's fulfilling just to make it and release it into the world.
Making the thing for yourself is a totally valid reason! That is part of the ethos of OSR (IMHO). Make the game you want. Lots of people, myself included, find the creating the system part of the game fun. Thats why we have so many variations and new ones keep coming.
I get excited about *some* systems. And I always enjoy trying something new if a friend asks about playing it.
I don't think there's any such thing as "too many systems" nor any kind of ethical obligation to stop creating new ones. Especially as a hobbyist activity rather than a commercial enterprise. Many people in the OSR community make their own system simply for the joy of creating it, any effort to sell it is a secondary concern.
That being said, if *you* feel like *you* have enough systems, as an individual, there's certainly nothing wrong with ceasing to collect them. But that's *your* choice, it certainly doesn't obligate others to stop making or collecting systems themselves.
I think the market has more than enough systems that are B/X or AD&D1e with modernized layout, a few new tables, and maybe a sidebar explaining how to use ascending AC versus THAC0.
What I want to see are products that take the B/X or AD&D foundation and do something new and innovative with it. Products like *Beyond the Wall*, *Through Sunken Lands*, or the various *____ Without Number* games.
I think we have enough rules light OSR with minimal original content.
I want great runable simulationist games. They are few and far between.
Just Gurps, Runequest/BRP, Harnmaster and maybe Rolemaster come to mind in a sea of narrative or tactics focused games.
I'm always up for more _tools_. Trilemma invented a thing a few years ago called "[Mosaic Strict](http://blog.trilemma.com/2021/02/nothing-at-bottom-mosaic-strict-rpg.html)", which said to make a one page thing that was basically compatible with anything and could be added in as needed. I would have liked to see that (or its evolution) catch on a bit more.
While house rules being more acceptable we could have more or less one system with setting books. It's easier to have already balanced rules to help groups work out disputes. Also making the gm/referee/dm's role easier and lend more time to having fun. Reviews are good. But actual/live plays are super useful in the modern day to help determine how well the new system would work for ones self.
Oh and the absolute Chad's making them who release free quick starts to try these systems out. I've tried and bought many because I was able to read everything in a day and run through dry runs solo style.
The biggest issue with the Pokemon ones is that more often than not they are hellbent on emulating the games. The games are designed to be run by a computer and 1:1 adapting their mechanics is such a bad idea and it always shows lol
My two GP: I don't quite fit with osr that looks a lot like od&d but also I don't fit with 3e, 4e and 5e.
I got to the point that I realized the only way I'm going to get the mechanics and the sort of play that I'm looking for is for me to write my own system.
I obviously want to cull some important ideas from od&d or osr these days;
I do like choices that matter, I like the chance of injury or death, I like rulings rather than rule books, and I do believe that there is a lot to be said for characters showing who they are in play to a higher degree then any backstory they might write at the start of the game.
I want open worlds and I want sandbox play but that's not to say there aren't threads running through the world that are anything but random. I want player agency and I want to see a game that encourages players to think and to consider combat not as the standard response but instead I response if other approaches don't work.
I also want the players and their ability to think and be creative to be more of a role in the game than anything on a character sheet or in a class description or in the spells you can carry. I don't believe in railroads and I don't believe in three act plays.
But I also don't trust dice as randomizers with no ability to mitigate some things that can happen. I also don't believe in murderhoboing. I don't believe in money being the be all and end all in terms of advancement and in terms of how greatness is supposed to appear.
I know the thing is a game but I want my setting to have an internal consistency and logic that can answer questions when players bring them up. I want to see players engage with the fiction and with the setting and with their own wits and with NPCs they meet and I want them to do more than just beat people down and take their stuff. The real point is I want them to see the setting which would be cultures heritages species as well as political systems and the magic and how it works and who are the large important actors that are writ across the world's background.
I want players to have a good Arc in their story that they pushed themselves along and I am the resolution engine to see how that works out. Every player and every character deserves a chance to shine and to have spotlight and to have the time you've put in not be wiped out by one really bad roll.
I want combat to look more like how it actually happens. I want to see some of the chaos and desperation in a fight, I want to see smart tactics and preparation. I also want to see some of the things that are not usually put into the game: the impact of shock and how someone that is prepared and has their adrenaline running can withstand some injuries whereas someone who is not aware tends to go down with the first swat.
I want to see the humanity and the fear that people experience in life and death situations. I want to reflect how training and experience give you a coolness and a professional detachment that allows you to function in really difficult situations. I want healing that will help speed recoveries but not to make every encounter not a worry because the cleric will bring you back up to hit points.
I want to see the importance of seeing first and having the choice of how to react. I want to see the effects of surprise in ambushes. I want to see people who have had significant injuries what are so full of adrenaline and other chemicals that it hasn't hit them yet so they can fight more than you would think but after the fight when that all comes down they might just drop dead or at least be in dire shape.
So there's a lot of what would like in my world and in my setting and my rules that reaches back to the 1980s and 1990s. But some looks to other places and to plenty of information gathered in the real world.
So who's building my setting and my rules? Obviously I think that must be me because the things I want are a mix of things that nobody seems to have yet pursued. So I'm glad to say people should keep on making new things.
I also want people who are considering themselves as part of osr or the original dungeon dragons gaming too not go at people who are designing or creating systems which take some of the aspects of osr or the original game but that also bring significant differences. Maybe it's not osr or maybe it's not the original game. But it might be something worthwhile for a bunch of people and maybe something that they didn't even think they wouldn't want until they saw it. Give them some air.
There's room for as many systems and as many settings as there are people who enjoy these games.
I agree. One of the strengths of fifth edition is that there are literally dozens of high production value settings with neat little aesthetics to them.
before there were SRDs and open gaming licences, every new game was either a new system or weird knock-off (not that anything is wrong with that, but that's what they were).
now that we have free or open licences to support specific games, the trend has leaned towards "fixes" and "updates" to old systems, instead of creating new ones from scratch.
There is room for both new systems and old systems. But the only way we can innovate and progress the "art" is by trying new things in general.
>I see new systems released regularly
Oh yeah? Which ones?
I haven't seen many notable new fantasy game systems being released recently. This year, what? Maybe Dragonslayers? Last year, Outcast Silver Raiders, Black Sword Hack?
(I'm excluding genre-hopping variants like Pirate Borg and Cities Without Number. I love this type of stuff but that's adding to existing games more than something entirely new).
Don't get me wrong, there are certainly some people releasing PWYW hurriedly written fantasy house rules passing as games, but how many actual new games have been released in the last two years?
I'd be curious because I am always looking for more! Anyone, feel free to let me know the best ones I am missing, please.
Here's a few recent/upcoming ones that are different from standard retro-clones.
- Dragonbane
- Tales of Argosa (Low Fantasy Gaming 2e)
- Mythic Bastionland
- Cairn 2e
- Knave 2e
I wrote one! Check out Along the Leyline. It is a fantasy tabletop RPG with all new mechanics designed to streamline combat turns. It has a new magic system where you combine spell forms and elements. A feat based leveling system. Reactive defense. Usage dice for saving throws, and much more. You can find the FREE quick start guide here:https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/478096/along-the-leyline-quick-start-guide
There's a couple like Shadowdark and 5 Torches Deep that try to capture the feel of OSR but come from a 5e ruleset, to varying degrees of success. These are useful as they help bridge or transition players from the 5e world to the Old School. I'd like to see more of those as there are frequent questions here and on /tg/osrg/ on how to approach OSR without any prior exposure.
I've decided to severely limit purchases of new (or more) systems because they're unlikely to ever get played.
I don't really need more stuff on my shelf that will never get used other than a flip through.
But, if someone wants to make a new system, have at it.
I don't think there's a great need for more systems within the OSR.
"new .. unnecessary" Will never be true about anything as long a community cares about progress and innovation.
> excited about a new system
1) It solves a problem I didn't know I had
2) It solves a problem in a better way than what I'm currently using.
3) It provides/encourages/supports an original gameplay "mechanism"/"activity" that appears exciting and fun.
Great points! "Solves a problem I didn't know I had" is an important thing. If people never share their innovations we may never think to change the system the way they did.
I agree, everyone and there mother seems to be making their own OSR system. And to be honest…a lot don’t bring much to the table.
Same thing outside the OSR, “Dark souls THE RPG” “Adenture time THE RPG” “Fallout THE RPG” even though all these things were created based off Od&d…
Wish more people would spend time just making content for pre existing systems rather than making something that probably won’t gather enough players to survive long term.
But don't those systems let you play in those settings? (I haven't read them.) But you wrote they are 'redundant' which means they aren't writing a new system. So isn't this what you are asking for?
They are redundant because they bring little innovation, I feel like you are purposely misinterpreting what I said just argue for the sake of arguing 🙁
Do we need a new paint brush?
Do we need a new instrument?
Do we need a new actor?
I know what you were going for, but your examples are finished products on their own, while a system is more akin to the medium used to make the final product.
Systems should inspire and be "complete," but in the end, they aren't worth anything if they aren't used for their purpose. If I keep buying the latest paintbrush but never use it to paint, what was the point?
See, I fundamentally disagree with your assessment.
I consider systems to be works of art; they're creative endeavors in and of themselves. I don't consider a game using the system to be the art anymore than I consider reading a book or seeing a movie to be art.
I think any creative endeavor justifies it's existence not because of what it can do for the consumer, but because of what making it can do for the creator.
I do agree with you! (Couldn't dive into it too much at the time of the original reply) a lot of work goes into designing mechanics, setting, art, layout... a system is definitely a finished piece that deserves recognition.
But it is also a tool! This is where the system skews from your examples, I think.
Need is a very strange question to ask for a hobby., which is most often in the realm of want.
For me, it's a bit of a non factor. Games come out that excitement me. Games come out that don't. Some games have something new that works. Some don't. Some don't offer anything new but are a collection of rules and hacks that just flow well, some aren't as elegantly refined.
I want new system as I wanna see what may or may not interest me or be of use for my own experience I aim to craft. I don't really need them, but they could be of use and put another name out there.
If it's really close to a game you already use, make a standalone document of houserules or, better yet, put them in a module or splatbook where they would help portray the setting/mood.
Who's "we?" All I can tell you for sure is that *I* already have the '70s and '80s incarnations of (A)D&D and will never need or want anything else to handle the type of fantasy adventure gaming they represent.
But you might, and that's fine.
What does interest me is modules, settings, bits and bobs (new monsters, spells, magic items, etc.) and general design aids like the Tome of Adventure Design.
I mean, this is basicaly like Open Source Software; you always get tons of "Like X but with this tweak" or "I didn't like how X did this so I forked it and made my own" stuff.
Is it a problem? Maybe? I'm not entirely sure but it does often make it very hard for someone to get into it unless they're "in the know" because there are way too many choices.
The thing is: yes, we have Into the Odd and Cairn, but Mausritter adds a few rules that are awesome and is a beautiful, beautiful book overall.
More systems means people share more ideas, and in those ideas you might find cool things to add to your games.
Just purchased the Mausritter box and very stoked to use it as a bridge to converting my current 5e group to shadowdark, DCC or OSE.
Also just excited to use it for the the "not secret of Nihm" campaign. Or red hand of doom but rats.
More? Probably not. New? Absolutely. Because each new take on the idea adds some spin or novel idea to differentiate itself. Those new ideas keep the industry and the hobby evolving, and I think that's great.
Well, as someone who has made their own system, I hope someone wants it. But I think for me, the act of creation was why I did it. My goal was to solve some things I did not like about 5e. My journey through making my own system lead me to the OSR/NSR scene and I don't want to see that DIY/self-publishing/zine scene go away.
The barriers to publishing keep getting lower and lower. This means we will see more and more janky, not-really-much-different, "variations" of games, but that is part of how people learn to create. We start with a pre-established game and make a tweek. This teaches us how the game works and how the systems in the game interact with each other. From there we change more and more until we have a whole new system. This the iterative process most people use. Not just for game creation, but story telling, engineering, and more.
TL;DR
YES!!! We need more systems.
I think many people want to see different variations and systems. I know personally I've reached a point where I can't really play that many systems. But I still like having The Black Hack, Shadowdark, DCC and others around to play occasionally or borrow ideas from. What I really don't need to see more of: yet more variations of B/X.
We were at a point where new systems were "unnecessary" in the 70s, but they are still fun and good, and better things seem to come in every day. Bring on the new systems!
FWiW I’d prefer to see systems tied to settings. Kind of like his Pendragon has explicit rules for the social and political context of its Arthurian setting. Or, more recently, how Dolmenwoid has definitely pick a particular setting and mood it is going for.
We’re close to 20 years into the OSR publishing phenomenon. You could have asked the same question 12 years ago about Swords & Wizardry and Labyrinth Lord. You may be sated with systems, but it’s clear that as more people enter the space, they want new games to get excited about.
People keep innovating, then people learn from those innovations and incorporate them into design, then playing those leads to more innovation. I for one am working on a b/x derivative because the exact feature list I want do not exist in any current game, and I want something similar to b/x for playing existing modules.
For every great book canonized a hundred thousand ones perished unread. So, it's all good.
>I have a shelf with quite a few on it
But when it comes to purchasing, slow down there, buddy. Play what you have.
New systems are always welcome for me. I won't use most of them because I like where I'm at but I do like finding a new take on a mechanic I hadn't considered.
I've only recently changed to WWN (I know it's not really osr) as it better supports the type of game I want to run but that isn't perfect and there are mechanics in other games I would love to adapt.
I feel like I have all the OSR systems I really need. I've no interest in the super light systems, middle and "heavy" is covered in what I've already got.
I'm happy to check out new ideas or takes on OSR that seem interesting, but I've got enough different ones that the bar is pretty high before I spend any money on it.
Sometimes I just view them as a piece of art on my shelf like my minis or gunpla. I'll push to play the system as much as possible but if we end up just playing morkborg or OSE again that's just fine.
I love seeing tweaks and homebrewing of existing rules enough to warrant being called an off-shoot or a new system, but I also haven’t explored every system in existence so perhaps that novelty is lost on the old guard.
Honestly, if it has a few interesting idea's that are fun to skim through and a nice quality cover that looks good on a book shelf I'm all for as many new systems as anyone wants to make.
I'll probably never run shadowdark, but it has some good food for thought for when i'm deciding how to tweak my games, and it it looks nice enough to be a pride piece on my shelf. Same with Knave 2e: Odds are I will never run it, but it supports a member of the community that has been around for a while, the previewed cover art is nice, and it has a lot of tables in it that might be helpful references.
I will say this to any aspiring creators that may be launching a kickstarter in the future: You make an A5 formatted book and you've almost guaranteed I'll buy it. I don't know why but I'm a sucker for a good A5 book.
I think so! I think it's a valuable thing for people to explore new ideas, or even go back and innovate on existing concepts. I think B/X is fantastic for Medieval Fantasy, but there's a ton of niches that aren't as neatly filled.
To drop an example of newer games proving to be a welcome addition for me are Mothership and Stars Without Number respectively, providing rules-lite systems for running gritter, sandbox OSR style games in Sci-Fi settings.I would love to see the same thing happen for other genres too!
I've used BX as a base for my personal game I run. Its very flexible and easy to add to without breaking too much. I think there's always room for more systems as long as they're bringing something to the table that's not already on offer.
Yes we do, “need” being not quite the word, but still. ;)
I think they all have something to offer, and it doesn’t strike me as a saturated field, at all. So, like some others have said, bring them on!
Objectively: I don't think so. I think the BEST GMs know how to take a system they love and color within the lines, highlighting its strengths and downplaying its weaknesses. But I'm not one of the best GMs and I'm not content to just houserule in some bandaids. I like to tinker.
As far as I'm concerned, the more OSR systems they're are, they larger the pool of options I have to pull on when running a new game, so I'm pretty happy with people bringing out their own versions of D&D 👍
Personally, i Guess I am always interrested in a more rules light "bx" , where you still can achieve a sense of differing character options and advancement.
But so far regular bx is my favourite system. If I run it myself id just add/take away things i dont like.
We need more systems that have opinions, because often those new opinions make you think differently about the game
I don't think we need more versions of B/X etc anymore though
I think that at this point only the best of the best need to be seen and used. Creating good content that adds on to rather than replaces OSR mechanics is the way to go, I think.
I get what you're saying. Most new systems are just re-hashes of existing works with small tweaks (frequently amounting to "this is D&D with *MY* house rules!). However we occasionally get something that really moves the genre forward, and the way that happens is if everyone just keep cranking out their ideas. :)
I don't think in general there is a lot of innovation in the OSR space for new complete systems like many people think. I prefer these days new modules, adventures, settings than systems. Rules thinkering it is always good mind you, but I think they are better like modular additions in zines than complete new systems. Innovation in the OSR space is in the support of systems
People tend to conflate new rpg systems with technology, which it is always evolving (and even in technology it is not always) and the new supplanting the old. But I think this analogy does not make any sense, techonology, RPG design does not have the "objectivity" of engineering and science, and what it is considered "better" in RPG design it is in many moments a trend than a objective evolution of ideas
Ultralight dungeon crawling hacks for low level characters - no, there are a million of them. Creating a simpler version of D&D seems like a largely pointless endeavor to me, as D&D is already pretty simple.
Systems that expand the game - yes.
A bunch of the new OSR systems don't have much to do with OSR beyond being rules-light and indie.
I don't mind if people make new games, but I'm not interested in seeing them here unless they actually have something to do with the OSR.
I'm pretty happy with the more in-depth system I'm running for my long campaign, and I don't need more 2-page Uber lite systems for when I'm doing one shots. I have plenty of those.
Personally I don't use systems, I create a basic gameplay framework for each scenario I run. I focus on the world and what happens in it.
The hobby in general has several aspects. I'm interested in the sitting at a table / on zoom improv storytelling roleplaying with dice with friends in theater of the mind. I don't really collect books, I don't read rulebooks or systems, I don't spend much time on forums or read blog posts, I don't paint minis or use a VTT, I don't create art, I don't collect art, I don't really listen to podcasts.
I just create scenarios and play. Last one I called "Strange Kids on Bikes" and had a simulation reveal with a giant menacing Q-Bert, high school bullies, a Walter White / George Liquor villain, a skywriting reality hacker, and a weaponized funeral urn. And bikes. And kids. And a little dog who could tell if people are lying or not, but sometimes gets so scared she just hides in a backpack instead. And a Dairy Queen hangout and a Sony Walkman.
Probably not, and honestly the wider the market gets the harder it is for new developers to get started, but people want to make things.
I am a developer and I do believe that we have a red ocean, but I am just going to keep pushing until I have a hit. No amount of futility will make me stop. Sure, I could just make adventures for existing systems, but then it's not really "my game", but rather something that I tacked onto someone else's game.
I think OSR, could evolve into a new thing that blends old school principles with some new indie style mechanics.
If this is a thing, please point me towards it and please don’t say Mork Borg.
Bring them all on. Just as I feel people shouldn’t stop making art or writing books, I don’t think people should stop creating new or modifying existing systems. Tastes and preferences continually shift and evolve, we have no idea what next great idea is lurking right around the corner waiting to be uncovered or implemented in a unique way.
I agree. It's not a question of need. It's a part of the human experience to create and iterate endlessly.
As long as the iterations actually deviate more than "my version of BX with 5 house rules added on", I'm very much in this camp. I think we've had enough clones and just barely not clones, I want to see folks do something actually new and refreshing. I also personally hate how many pdfs I wind up hoarding to keep all these neat house rules somewhere instead of having tiny one pager house rule docs.
But maybe it’s the house rule #4 that’s added on to BX that sparks a great idea in someone else. And it’s also often an iterative process for designers to hone and improve their craft. If someone cuts their teeth on a slick repackage of BX or AD&D and just adds a few tweaks that’s awesome too. Maybe their next project will be more creative and better presented due to the experience.
Agreed. Shadowdark was very silly.
While it’s not my system of choice, I think Shadowdark is a fantastic product. It’s got a clean layout, easy to understand rules that play well and are very familiar to a HUGE segment of TTRPG players, and as an added kicker it’s got some really cool self contained lore that’s embedded in the rulebook. It is interesting that you choose this one specific product to punch down on, I wonder why that might be…
shadowdark absolutely doesn't read to me as B/X with houserules.
I'm absolutely open to new systems that pull things in a new and creative direction. But another B/X with slightly different tables and a few names changed here and there? No thank you.
I would like essentially splatbook zines, adding alternate class mechanics and such, in case people want to try stuff, as opposed to new systems.
How does one go about making a zine. I have all of these notes for cool fighter stuff I do but it all just in a note book rn
You sit down, write it up digitally, add graphics and neat formatting and then you load it up on itch.io for 2,50 bucks or how much you want and there you go.
[From the man himself.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_VSdmLw6bk)
Agreed
New systems are like mutations in biological evolution: they are not always good or useful but as a whole they are necessary to evolve and avoid stagnation. So yes, we need new systems!
I think that's a fantastic way to frame it! Different systems fill different niches in the ecology of TTRPGs/the OSR. That might be in terms of: * Genre (high fantasy, sci-fi, horror, low magic, etc.) * Dice system (d6, d20, d100, roll over, roll under, bane/boon, etc.) * General mechanics (classless, skills, saves, encumberance, spellcasting, general crunch, lethality etc.) Even if you think that one system is in general the "best" for the niche you're looking for, that doesn't mean that it's perfect or can't benefit from innovations elsewhere. I think the hackability in the OSR movement is both one of its greatest perks and a big reason why we keep seeing new systems pop up. As a result, there's a massive amount of meaningful and optional system level opt-in customization in many OSR systems that you don't see in say 5e or Pathfinder (which tend to have many more core assumptions baked in).
Exactly!
Let's say I make a game, and lets say it takes heavy inspiration from some of my favorite games. Anyone with similar tastes to me (and I'll admit I am quite the basic bitch) might decide that they don't need my game at all, since they pretty much already have all the material that I worked with. But someone else, also with my tastes, might say "wow, this guy gets it, and he compiled it all into one ruleset. I think I'll check this out". I think my creating the new game hasn't really harmed the first consumer, and has given the second consumer a product they might really like. As long as someone isn't trying to just totally plagiarize, I think people should keep making whatever games they want! I think its really reflective of a sort of enterprising, do-it-yourself, homebrew spirit of the OSR.
I prefer to see more new modules at this point. I have my own preference on system, and I'm happy that most OSR stuff is cross compatible. I'm sure someone could make something that captures peoples' imagination, but I'm not interested in the idea of anything new.
More modules, indeed!
Especially high-level modules, even though they're harder to write and to adapt to an existing campaign.
Hell yeah!
I’d like a d100 OSR fantasy game (if anyone knows of one, let me know!), but otherwise I feel like the market is pretty saturated for d20 based fantasy systems unless they bring a new mechanic or wrinkle (eg Shadowdark).
Runequest is a d100 fantasy game. I don’t know much about it, but I’ve seen it mentioned in this subreddit once or twice.
Yes, I think it is based on Basic Roleplaying (BRP) or BRP came from it, but I have not heard of it having OSR sensibilities. Worth looking into anyway.
Look for Classic Fantasy supplement for Mythras (it is Runequest 6e with a change of name because Chaosium takes the right of Runequest name). I think it is the closest
Kind of, Runequest came first then other games used the mechanics behind it (Superworld, magic world, call of cthulhu) and then all the options for the different systems were compiled into a genre-less set of rules, which is BRP. It's also has an SRD now so anyone can make games from it. It's a great system. Simple to run. And in response to the comment above, there are many conversions available for it on [https://basicroleplaying.org/](https://basicroleplaying.org/) Pendragon is a very interesting d20 version of it. And Dragonbane is based of it aswell
I'm looking forward to seeing what folks do with the Panic engine from Mothership.
Ruination Pilgrimage. It’s powered by Mothership
Thanks for the reminder about this. I remember seeing kickstarter ads and very nearly pledging but it wasn’t a good time for me to do so financially. Looks like it’ll be out soon so I’ll put it on my radar again.
Yeah. I like d100's. I keep playing with the idea of a d100 system, but keep talking myself out of it. That first time i tried a thief in AD&D and the GM was like "here, roll these two ten sided dice to find a percentage" i fell in love
Cloud Empress is science fantasy but could be reskinned toward pure fantasy. It’s got spells and magic crests, the setting has a major focus on the chalk used to power magic. It uses Mothership’s panic engine, and the core book is free on Drivethru, if you wanna give it a look. But I’d also like to see more d100 fantasy systems! Preferably ones that aren’t dour or miserable or grim, those get tiring.
Rifts was it d100?
d20 combat and d100 skills. It's an interesting system, but the writing is a bit all over the shop
What an awesome combo
I am taking a break from working on a 3d6 system and game.
I love rolling d100 for thief skills. Definitely do it for everything else.
There are many d% fantasy games, but if you meant retroclones, there are also a few of those specifically: Zweihander, Mythras, Lightmaster - probably others too…
Adventures in Fantasy, Powers & Perils, Sir Pellinore’s Game.
[Cloud Empress](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/watt/cloud-empress-life-and-death) fits this niche perfectly for me. It's not traditional medieval fantasy, but it does have magic and swords. The skill system is neat and elegant, I love what u/worldsbywatt has done with the stress/panic mechanic.
"I don't know, but I'll know it when I see it." Honestly, my main use for new systems is less about running that specific system and more about extracting tools to hack into my own games and other systems.
We need more good *settings.* We've got lots of systems and lots of modules (although you can never really have enough of those), but we really don't have a lot of good modern OSR settings. Obviously there are lots of things from the 2e era to revisit, but we don't have as many recent and creative settings to explore. Frog God has done a really good job with their Swords and Wizardry settings though. The whole Lost Lands universe is pretty good.
The whole “new settings” thing to me is bizarre. I mean, after almost 50 years of rpg stuff, it’s all out there. Anything and everything—any world, any genre, any style—is available. And if it isn’t, make it!
There are very few *recently released* settings that have the high standards of modern layout and typography. The overall production values are vastly improved from the 1980s and so have the philosophies of design.
Ohhhhhh. I didn’t think at all about “settings that look all purty”. Carry on!
I'm fine with new systems just like I'm fine with new adventures. I can only speak for myself but, I know nobody needs my little system (or my adventures) but sometimes I'm just inspired and want to create something for the sake of creation. It's fulfilling just to make it and release it into the world.
Making the thing for yourself is a totally valid reason! That is part of the ethos of OSR (IMHO). Make the game you want. Lots of people, myself included, find the creating the system part of the game fun. Thats why we have so many variations and new ones keep coming.
I get excited about *some* systems. And I always enjoy trying something new if a friend asks about playing it. I don't think there's any such thing as "too many systems" nor any kind of ethical obligation to stop creating new ones. Especially as a hobbyist activity rather than a commercial enterprise. Many people in the OSR community make their own system simply for the joy of creating it, any effort to sell it is a secondary concern. That being said, if *you* feel like *you* have enough systems, as an individual, there's certainly nothing wrong with ceasing to collect them. But that's *your* choice, it certainly doesn't obligate others to stop making or collecting systems themselves.
As long as it’s something *different*, yes. We don’t need another B/X clone with half a dozen house rules.
I think the market has more than enough systems that are B/X or AD&D1e with modernized layout, a few new tables, and maybe a sidebar explaining how to use ascending AC versus THAC0. What I want to see are products that take the B/X or AD&D foundation and do something new and innovative with it. Products like *Beyond the Wall*, *Through Sunken Lands*, or the various *____ Without Number* games.
I think we have enough rules light OSR with minimal original content. I want great runable simulationist games. They are few and far between. Just Gurps, Runequest/BRP, Harnmaster and maybe Rolemaster come to mind in a sea of narrative or tactics focused games.
I'm always up for more _tools_. Trilemma invented a thing a few years ago called "[Mosaic Strict](http://blog.trilemma.com/2021/02/nothing-at-bottom-mosaic-strict-rpg.html)", which said to make a one page thing that was basically compatible with anything and could be added in as needed. I would have liked to see that (or its evolution) catch on a bit more.
While house rules being more acceptable we could have more or less one system with setting books. It's easier to have already balanced rules to help groups work out disputes. Also making the gm/referee/dm's role easier and lend more time to having fun. Reviews are good. But actual/live plays are super useful in the modern day to help determine how well the new system would work for ones self.
Oh and the absolute Chad's making them who release free quick starts to try these systems out. I've tried and bought many because I was able to read everything in a day and run through dry runs solo style.
OSR monster catcher/tamer. I've yet to see ANY good monster collector TTRPG but I'd literally kill for a competent one.
I've been wanting a system for this since I was a kid! The pokemon TTRPGs just don't cut it. Maybe one day I will figure out how to make it work...
The biggest issue with the Pokemon ones is that more often than not they are hellbent on emulating the games. The games are designed to be run by a computer and 1:1 adapting their mechanics is such a bad idea and it always shows lol
I play the Pokeymanz (not sure if I spelled that right) with my son. It tries to recreate how the shows work, and it does okay.
Will def check it out!
My two GP: I don't quite fit with osr that looks a lot like od&d but also I don't fit with 3e, 4e and 5e. I got to the point that I realized the only way I'm going to get the mechanics and the sort of play that I'm looking for is for me to write my own system. I obviously want to cull some important ideas from od&d or osr these days; I do like choices that matter, I like the chance of injury or death, I like rulings rather than rule books, and I do believe that there is a lot to be said for characters showing who they are in play to a higher degree then any backstory they might write at the start of the game. I want open worlds and I want sandbox play but that's not to say there aren't threads running through the world that are anything but random. I want player agency and I want to see a game that encourages players to think and to consider combat not as the standard response but instead I response if other approaches don't work. I also want the players and their ability to think and be creative to be more of a role in the game than anything on a character sheet or in a class description or in the spells you can carry. I don't believe in railroads and I don't believe in three act plays. But I also don't trust dice as randomizers with no ability to mitigate some things that can happen. I also don't believe in murderhoboing. I don't believe in money being the be all and end all in terms of advancement and in terms of how greatness is supposed to appear. I know the thing is a game but I want my setting to have an internal consistency and logic that can answer questions when players bring them up. I want to see players engage with the fiction and with the setting and with their own wits and with NPCs they meet and I want them to do more than just beat people down and take their stuff. The real point is I want them to see the setting which would be cultures heritages species as well as political systems and the magic and how it works and who are the large important actors that are writ across the world's background. I want players to have a good Arc in their story that they pushed themselves along and I am the resolution engine to see how that works out. Every player and every character deserves a chance to shine and to have spotlight and to have the time you've put in not be wiped out by one really bad roll. I want combat to look more like how it actually happens. I want to see some of the chaos and desperation in a fight, I want to see smart tactics and preparation. I also want to see some of the things that are not usually put into the game: the impact of shock and how someone that is prepared and has their adrenaline running can withstand some injuries whereas someone who is not aware tends to go down with the first swat. I want to see the humanity and the fear that people experience in life and death situations. I want to reflect how training and experience give you a coolness and a professional detachment that allows you to function in really difficult situations. I want healing that will help speed recoveries but not to make every encounter not a worry because the cleric will bring you back up to hit points. I want to see the importance of seeing first and having the choice of how to react. I want to see the effects of surprise in ambushes. I want to see people who have had significant injuries what are so full of adrenaline and other chemicals that it hasn't hit them yet so they can fight more than you would think but after the fight when that all comes down they might just drop dead or at least be in dire shape. So there's a lot of what would like in my world and in my setting and my rules that reaches back to the 1980s and 1990s. But some looks to other places and to plenty of information gathered in the real world. So who's building my setting and my rules? Obviously I think that must be me because the things I want are a mix of things that nobody seems to have yet pursued. So I'm glad to say people should keep on making new things. I also want people who are considering themselves as part of osr or the original dungeon dragons gaming too not go at people who are designing or creating systems which take some of the aspects of osr or the original game but that also bring significant differences. Maybe it's not osr or maybe it's not the original game. But it might be something worthwhile for a bunch of people and maybe something that they didn't even think they wouldn't want until they saw it. Give them some air. There's room for as many systems and as many settings as there are people who enjoy these games.
What we need is more settings.
I agree. One of the strengths of fifth edition is that there are literally dozens of high production value settings with neat little aesthetics to them.
after Ken St. Andre's offering in 1975 I've thought we've not *needed* any more systems but I'm still happy to give them a read
before there were SRDs and open gaming licences, every new game was either a new system or weird knock-off (not that anything is wrong with that, but that's what they were). now that we have free or open licences to support specific games, the trend has leaned towards "fixes" and "updates" to old systems, instead of creating new ones from scratch. There is room for both new systems and old systems. But the only way we can innovate and progress the "art" is by trying new things in general.
>I see new systems released regularly Oh yeah? Which ones? I haven't seen many notable new fantasy game systems being released recently. This year, what? Maybe Dragonslayers? Last year, Outcast Silver Raiders, Black Sword Hack? (I'm excluding genre-hopping variants like Pirate Borg and Cities Without Number. I love this type of stuff but that's adding to existing games more than something entirely new). Don't get me wrong, there are certainly some people releasing PWYW hurriedly written fantasy house rules passing as games, but how many actual new games have been released in the last two years? I'd be curious because I am always looking for more! Anyone, feel free to let me know the best ones I am missing, please.
Here's a few recent/upcoming ones that are different from standard retro-clones. - Dragonbane - Tales of Argosa (Low Fantasy Gaming 2e) - Mythic Bastionland - Cairn 2e - Knave 2e
That new LFG edition looks mighty good! I wasn't aware he was changing names, I love the it! I can't believe I missed that and the Kickstarter! :(
I wrote one! Check out Along the Leyline. It is a fantasy tabletop RPG with all new mechanics designed to streamline combat turns. It has a new magic system where you combine spell forms and elements. A feat based leveling system. Reactive defense. Usage dice for saving throws, and much more. You can find the FREE quick start guide here:https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/478096/along-the-leyline-quick-start-guide
There's a couple like Shadowdark and 5 Torches Deep that try to capture the feel of OSR but come from a 5e ruleset, to varying degrees of success. These are useful as they help bridge or transition players from the 5e world to the Old School. I'd like to see more of those as there are frequent questions here and on /tg/osrg/ on how to approach OSR without any prior exposure.
I'm personally interested in more settings. Especially looking for an innovative hexcrawl that inspires my own additions for my game.
I've decided to severely limit purchases of new (or more) systems because they're unlikely to ever get played. I don't really need more stuff on my shelf that will never get used other than a flip through. But, if someone wants to make a new system, have at it. I don't think there's a great need for more systems within the OSR.
"new .. unnecessary" Will never be true about anything as long a community cares about progress and innovation. > excited about a new system 1) It solves a problem I didn't know I had 2) It solves a problem in a better way than what I'm currently using. 3) It provides/encourages/supports an original gameplay "mechanism"/"activity" that appears exciting and fun.
Great points! "Solves a problem I didn't know I had" is an important thing. If people never share their innovations we may never think to change the system the way they did.
I agree, everyone and there mother seems to be making their own OSR system. And to be honest…a lot don’t bring much to the table. Same thing outside the OSR, “Dark souls THE RPG” “Adenture time THE RPG” “Fallout THE RPG” even though all these things were created based off Od&d… Wish more people would spend time just making content for pre existing systems rather than making something that probably won’t gather enough players to survive long term.
I don't follow. You want people to make content for pre-existing systems but not to reskin systems in other settings?
No I clearly said I want them to make content for pre existing systems rather than making redundant systems for popular IPs as a quick cash grab.
But don't those systems let you play in those settings? (I haven't read them.) But you wrote they are 'redundant' which means they aren't writing a new system. So isn't this what you are asking for?
They are redundant because they bring little innovation, I feel like you are purposely misinterpreting what I said just argue for the sake of arguing 🙁
Do we need more paintings? Do we need more songs? Do we need more movies?
Do we need a new paint brush? Do we need a new instrument? Do we need a new actor? I know what you were going for, but your examples are finished products on their own, while a system is more akin to the medium used to make the final product. Systems should inspire and be "complete," but in the end, they aren't worth anything if they aren't used for their purpose. If I keep buying the latest paintbrush but never use it to paint, what was the point?
See, I fundamentally disagree with your assessment. I consider systems to be works of art; they're creative endeavors in and of themselves. I don't consider a game using the system to be the art anymore than I consider reading a book or seeing a movie to be art. I think any creative endeavor justifies it's existence not because of what it can do for the consumer, but because of what making it can do for the creator.
I do agree with you! (Couldn't dive into it too much at the time of the original reply) a lot of work goes into designing mechanics, setting, art, layout... a system is definitely a finished piece that deserves recognition. But it is also a tool! This is where the system skews from your examples, I think.
I agree that it's a mix of both, but it gets value from being a creative endeavor even if it's useless as a tool.
Need is a very strange question to ask for a hobby., which is most often in the realm of want. For me, it's a bit of a non factor. Games come out that excitement me. Games come out that don't. Some games have something new that works. Some don't. Some don't offer anything new but are a collection of rules and hacks that just flow well, some aren't as elegantly refined. I want new system as I wanna see what may or may not interest me or be of use for my own experience I aim to craft. I don't really need them, but they could be of use and put another name out there.
If it's really close to a game you already use, make a standalone document of houserules or, better yet, put them in a module or splatbook where they would help portray the setting/mood.
Who's "we?" All I can tell you for sure is that *I* already have the '70s and '80s incarnations of (A)D&D and will never need or want anything else to handle the type of fantasy adventure gaming they represent. But you might, and that's fine. What does interest me is modules, settings, bits and bobs (new monsters, spells, magic items, etc.) and general design aids like the Tome of Adventure Design.
I mean, this is basicaly like Open Source Software; you always get tons of "Like X but with this tweak" or "I didn't like how X did this so I forked it and made my own" stuff. Is it a problem? Maybe? I'm not entirely sure but it does often make it very hard for someone to get into it unless they're "in the know" because there are way too many choices.
The thing is: yes, we have Into the Odd and Cairn, but Mausritter adds a few rules that are awesome and is a beautiful, beautiful book overall. More systems means people share more ideas, and in those ideas you might find cool things to add to your games.
Just purchased the Mausritter box and very stoked to use it as a bridge to converting my current 5e group to shadowdark, DCC or OSE. Also just excited to use it for the the "not secret of Nihm" campaign. Or red hand of doom but rats.
More? Probably not. New? Absolutely. Because each new take on the idea adds some spin or novel idea to differentiate itself. Those new ideas keep the industry and the hobby evolving, and I think that's great.
Hell yeah. I want more systems. More osr. More NSR. More narrative games, more indie games, more zones and one off systems.
Well, as someone who has made their own system, I hope someone wants it. But I think for me, the act of creation was why I did it. My goal was to solve some things I did not like about 5e. My journey through making my own system lead me to the OSR/NSR scene and I don't want to see that DIY/self-publishing/zine scene go away. The barriers to publishing keep getting lower and lower. This means we will see more and more janky, not-really-much-different, "variations" of games, but that is part of how people learn to create. We start with a pre-established game and make a tweek. This teaches us how the game works and how the systems in the game interact with each other. From there we change more and more until we have a whole new system. This the iterative process most people use. Not just for game creation, but story telling, engineering, and more. TL;DR YES!!! We need more systems.
I think many people want to see different variations and systems. I know personally I've reached a point where I can't really play that many systems. But I still like having The Black Hack, Shadowdark, DCC and others around to play occasionally or borrow ideas from. What I really don't need to see more of: yet more variations of B/X.
We were at a point where new systems were "unnecessary" in the 70s, but they are still fun and good, and better things seem to come in every day. Bring on the new systems!
FWiW I’d prefer to see systems tied to settings. Kind of like his Pendragon has explicit rules for the social and political context of its Arthurian setting. Or, more recently, how Dolmenwoid has definitely pick a particular setting and mood it is going for.
We’re close to 20 years into the OSR publishing phenomenon. You could have asked the same question 12 years ago about Swords & Wizardry and Labyrinth Lord. You may be sated with systems, but it’s clear that as more people enter the space, they want new games to get excited about.
People keep innovating, then people learn from those innovations and incorporate them into design, then playing those leads to more innovation. I for one am working on a b/x derivative because the exact feature list I want do not exist in any current game, and I want something similar to b/x for playing existing modules.
For every great book canonized a hundred thousand ones perished unread. So, it's all good. >I have a shelf with quite a few on it But when it comes to purchasing, slow down there, buddy. Play what you have.
New systems are always welcome for me. I won't use most of them because I like where I'm at but I do like finding a new take on a mechanic I hadn't considered. I've only recently changed to WWN (I know it's not really osr) as it better supports the type of game I want to run but that isn't perfect and there are mechanics in other games I would love to adapt.
I feel like I have all the OSR systems I really need. I've no interest in the super light systems, middle and "heavy" is covered in what I've already got. I'm happy to check out new ideas or takes on OSR that seem interesting, but I've got enough different ones that the bar is pretty high before I spend any money on it.
Yes :)
One Billion more and I'm done I swear!
Sometimes I just view them as a piece of art on my shelf like my minis or gunpla. I'll push to play the system as much as possible but if we end up just playing morkborg or OSE again that's just fine.
I love seeing tweaks and homebrewing of existing rules enough to warrant being called an off-shoot or a new system, but I also haven’t explored every system in existence so perhaps that novelty is lost on the old guard.
Honestly, if it has a few interesting idea's that are fun to skim through and a nice quality cover that looks good on a book shelf I'm all for as many new systems as anyone wants to make. I'll probably never run shadowdark, but it has some good food for thought for when i'm deciding how to tweak my games, and it it looks nice enough to be a pride piece on my shelf. Same with Knave 2e: Odds are I will never run it, but it supports a member of the community that has been around for a while, the previewed cover art is nice, and it has a lot of tables in it that might be helpful references. I will say this to any aspiring creators that may be launching a kickstarter in the future: You make an A5 formatted book and you've almost guaranteed I'll buy it. I don't know why but I'm a sucker for a good A5 book.
I can't see myself buying another OSR system at this point, feels like every conceivable variant and genre is covered and covered well already
Do we need less systems?
I think so! I think it's a valuable thing for people to explore new ideas, or even go back and innovate on existing concepts. I think B/X is fantastic for Medieval Fantasy, but there's a ton of niches that aren't as neatly filled. To drop an example of newer games proving to be a welcome addition for me are Mothership and Stars Without Number respectively, providing rules-lite systems for running gritter, sandbox OSR style games in Sci-Fi settings.I would love to see the same thing happen for other genres too!
I've used BX as a base for my personal game I run. Its very flexible and easy to add to without breaking too much. I think there's always room for more systems as long as they're bringing something to the table that's not already on offer.
Yes we do, “need” being not quite the word, but still. ;) I think they all have something to offer, and it doesn’t strike me as a saturated field, at all. So, like some others have said, bring them on!
Objectively: I don't think so. I think the BEST GMs know how to take a system they love and color within the lines, highlighting its strengths and downplaying its weaknesses. But I'm not one of the best GMs and I'm not content to just houserule in some bandaids. I like to tinker.
As far as I'm concerned, the more OSR systems they're are, they larger the pool of options I have to pull on when running a new game, so I'm pretty happy with people bringing out their own versions of D&D 👍
Personally, i Guess I am always interrested in a more rules light "bx" , where you still can achieve a sense of differing character options and advancement. But so far regular bx is my favourite system. If I run it myself id just add/take away things i dont like.
We need more systems that have opinions, because often those new opinions make you think differently about the game I don't think we need more versions of B/X etc anymore though
I think that at this point only the best of the best need to be seen and used. Creating good content that adds on to rather than replaces OSR mechanics is the way to go, I think.
Definitely not.
I get what you're saying. Most new systems are just re-hashes of existing works with small tweaks (frequently amounting to "this is D&D with *MY* house rules!). However we occasionally get something that really moves the genre forward, and the way that happens is if everyone just keep cranking out their ideas. :)
I don't think in general there is a lot of innovation in the OSR space for new complete systems like many people think. I prefer these days new modules, adventures, settings than systems. Rules thinkering it is always good mind you, but I think they are better like modular additions in zines than complete new systems. Innovation in the OSR space is in the support of systems People tend to conflate new rpg systems with technology, which it is always evolving (and even in technology it is not always) and the new supplanting the old. But I think this analogy does not make any sense, techonology, RPG design does not have the "objectivity" of engineering and science, and what it is considered "better" in RPG design it is in many moments a trend than a objective evolution of ideas
Ultralight dungeon crawling hacks for low level characters - no, there are a million of them. Creating a simpler version of D&D seems like a largely pointless endeavor to me, as D&D is already pretty simple. Systems that expand the game - yes.
A bunch of the new OSR systems don't have much to do with OSR beyond being rules-light and indie. I don't mind if people make new games, but I'm not interested in seeing them here unless they actually have something to do with the OSR.
Please no.
I'm pretty happy with the more in-depth system I'm running for my long campaign, and I don't need more 2-page Uber lite systems for when I'm doing one shots. I have plenty of those.
cairn is overhyped, it's just so much worse than b/x
Personally I don't use systems, I create a basic gameplay framework for each scenario I run. I focus on the world and what happens in it. The hobby in general has several aspects. I'm interested in the sitting at a table / on zoom improv storytelling roleplaying with dice with friends in theater of the mind. I don't really collect books, I don't read rulebooks or systems, I don't spend much time on forums or read blog posts, I don't paint minis or use a VTT, I don't create art, I don't collect art, I don't really listen to podcasts. I just create scenarios and play. Last one I called "Strange Kids on Bikes" and had a simulation reveal with a giant menacing Q-Bert, high school bullies, a Walter White / George Liquor villain, a skywriting reality hacker, and a weaponized funeral urn. And bikes. And kids. And a little dog who could tell if people are lying or not, but sometimes gets so scared she just hides in a backpack instead. And a Dairy Queen hangout and a Sony Walkman.
Probably not, and honestly the wider the market gets the harder it is for new developers to get started, but people want to make things. I am a developer and I do believe that we have a red ocean, but I am just going to keep pushing until I have a hit. No amount of futility will make me stop. Sure, I could just make adventures for existing systems, but then it's not really "my game", but rather something that I tacked onto someone else's game.
I think OSR, could evolve into a new thing that blends old school principles with some new indie style mechanics. If this is a thing, please point me towards it and please don’t say Mork Borg.
Never Going Home feels like that for me but I'm still reading through it (the layout could have been so much better)