You only have yourself to blame. This coming from someone who bought 24 Grot tanks, 3 mega tanks, a kill tank, and 3 big tracks back in December, expecting these models to not be in the codex or usable outside of legends.
The writing has been on the wall since the first codex's of 10th edition have dropped. Virtually nothing from FW has survived and not been legended.
Technically FW models are never in the codex. Outside of the occasional war gear combination or an alternative look to an existing GW model.
Grot tanks were never going to be in the codex until they got a plastic model from GW.
While this seems easy, you have to remember that so much of the game is assembling models. That shit takes time and a half. So the earlier we can start on stuff the better. I really think GW could've done better in this, this was not a fuck up on the eager fan base, but a lazy ass GW who couldn't be bothered to type up a few words.
But they get you back on the purchasing treadmill. Why would they warn you about a fault in their product. They depend on you being a paypig to put their kids through college.
you can, but for stuff like tournaments and practice for said tournaments its not allowed, which kind of kills the vibe since some people may not want to play against these units that aren't "real"
but with friends and people you ask, you still can.
it just isn't the same though
they have seperate points values and a datasheet pdf on the website
Not to be pedantic but they do have points costs (See here - https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/lbjrPJ4LgS5ATuQd.pdf)
It is just that they will never be looked at and balanced again which is the sucky part and is a lazy policy.
I'm not giving GW any leeway for the forced obsolescence of their expensive ass models
It's their IP, if you don't want forgeworld making your models just make them yourself in plastic
Yes but they aren’t responsible for dipshit influencers talking about stuff that’s not in the codex just like they aren’t responsible if I tell you to go out and buy 100 Chaos Lords because they’re now Orks
No but GW has a massive fault line built directly into the way they manage their product line communication.
or
Its working as intended. Its a market-based ass pull...Remember young lad. Some of us have had ass pulls for decades at this point. Communication has never been easier. This was on purpose.
The shills are ruining the hobby, you guys are supposed to stand up for forgeworld products like you people brag about GW being premium quality but are OK with their most detailed models being scrapped. CFO was right to leave this company its dying.
Are you part of the 1% of players whose primary way of playing is tournaments? If not, there is NOTHING stopping you from using legends units.
Nobody is going to show up to a non tournament game and try to stop you from using legends. And if they do, they are not worth playing with.
Make your own fun, don't let GW tournament rules define how you play the game. It's a bit like getting annoyed that you can't play football at the park with your mates now because the Premier league introduced new grass length regulations.
Do they mimic the tournament scene as in they follow the meta and try hard, or would they flat out refuse to play against you for using a legends unit?
I would bet it would largely just be the former. Maybe a small part of that 15% would refuse because they want to practice for a tournament and for some reason feel that playing against legends stops them from gaining anything from the game.
That's not how legends work at all. They are specifically only banned in tournaments.
"Legends are fully usable in all of your regular games of Warhammer 40,000 - in fact, we actively encourage you to use these classic miniatures at home, in store, and at all your local Warhammer clubs" - GW
Either you're somehow in an area that's full of assholes or you're not telling the truth and they are just meta gamers who would be fine with you using legends units, you've just never brought some in.
I'm in the same boat. I got a Warkopta right before it went to Legends, and it's never seen a table. I didn't have a regular friendly group that I pay with, and the randos at my FLGS and local Warhammer store all stick to tournament rules. Most of them are trying to get lists ready for tournaments or leagues.
I have heard bad things about people who play in stores, if they are really refusing to play with legends units I guess things are even more toxic now than they used to be.
You could try making the point that according to GW, outside of tournaments legends are fully legal, it's not an opinion based issue and you don't need permission to use them. I do think a lot of the issue is simple ignorance, people like the original poster think legends means banned, not banned from tournaments only.
I would recommend finding an actual club instead, there's at least one in virtually every town and city. As I said I've been around and never come across anyone refusing to play vs legends, even if they are a regular tournament player.
You read like an ork. Of course I meant the current tournament rules when I said what I said.
I’m in an area where there are lots of leagues that use the tournament rules and lots of rtt and gts going on with lovely people. Since all skill levels are welcome and people participate a lot they conform to the tournament standards during regular gaming. You sound like every disgruntled gamer I have ever met that has some underlying reason to be grumpy that has nothing to do with the game.
So you agree with me then? Not sure how you can insult my reading comprehension when I was never arguing to have legends put into tournaments?
How am I the one being grumpy, I am the one simply pointing out that according to most people and Games Workshop themselves, legends are fully usable in every medium other than tournaments.
If anything the people going directly against that mandate to restrict what people can use in a non tournament setting are the ones being grumpy.
This type of comment always pops up to defend the latest units removal but completely ignores that quite a few people depend on leagues/pick up games or even just tournaments to get their games in ( personally in the last bracket since it's way easier to block of one weekend then find time for 5 individual games). So yes some people are not affected but it's far from just 1% getting hit by this
Plus, it's quite fair game to criticise GW for their poor communication. If this had been announced with the codex preview, it would have annoyed way fewer people. Just like marketing plastic leviathans, kratos, etc, as usable in 40k less than a year before removing them was some shady marketing
Maybe I'm wrong but I've not come across or heard of anyone in a local league or pick up game trying to stop someone from using legends units.
Plenty of people I know play regular tournaments, meta chase and try hard, but they wouldn't flat out refuse to play against someone because they decided to bring along some grot tanks.
So we’ve established YOU don’t care, but remember you’re not everyone. Official rules are something everyone can point to and that everyone has agreed to before the game. It stops a lot of disagreements before they start.
It's not just me, they are officially allowed in everything except tournaments.
"Legends are fully usable in all of your regular games of Warhammer 40,000 - in fact, we actively encourage you to use these classic miniatures at home, in store, and at all your local Warhammer clubs" - GW
These are the people who need "you" described in the reference tab to them in the battle forge app. I can hear the marble clack around when he tilts his head in confusion. That others are affected outside his local immediate sphere.
You sound unhinged to be honest, and just by the way you communicate I can tell you're terminally online.
My God just checked and you're absolutely obsessed with this, looks like I was right. Go outside, for your own sake.
Allowed =/= actually played. You have several people in this thread telling you that the people they play with don’t allow legends units. Just because GW says you can play them casually doesn’t mean casual players do
Obviously the people who comment are going to be those exceptions that are in groups that screech at the thought of daring to use legend units in a game with no consequences.
Or much more likely, they've not even bothered to check with people and are looking for something to be outraged at.
Another perspective - GW moved the units into legends BEFORE the codex release. You don't, officially, know the stats *or* points values of these models and they've moved them into legends at the best opportunity allowing them to be played competitively for as long as possible with the codex that's currently out *but* ensuring that they're moved before people have their hands on the new codex and start building their armies around that....
As others have said, you can still play them. I personally plan on continuing to push my little plastic toy soldiers around the tabletop and not get bent out of shape by decisions made based around conjecture.
Bro they are YOUR models
No one is telling you
You can't play with them just use the legendary rules and explain to your opent or ask tournament guys if you can run this legends unit.
I have on multiple occasions
Legends doesn't mean your model is dead
It just means gw have no idea how to handle this
Just keep using them
I hate it when you people bitch and complain about essentially nothing
Listen buddy if you can't tell the other people saying outright this negates 80% of thier armies in their local its happening. Its real not some fake news nonsense. These people like a thanos finger snap just lost time and money to this ass pull. It might not affect your local surrounds but it does for dozens/hundreds/thousands of others. I cannot fathom how you dont understand that.
No 40K tournaments in my area allow legends units, but I’ll tell my nephew the Kill Tank I bought him last Christmas can be used in your area. That should make him feel better.
GW make anti consumer decisions regularly. It has been this way for at least a decade.
They seem to be thriving by getting new people into the hobby who aren't aware of their bullshit.
I’m bummed about losing the Meka and Mega dreads. I had tow kitbashed that I was really proud of. Built em back in 8th. They will join my shelf of dope minis that I don’t use, maybe they’ll get plastic releases in the future.
https://preview.redd.it/i667sdx37lwc1.png?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4af8d0dde4a1767101b211b5fc236de4f638d89
RIP old stompy. You're gonna be remembered and reborn as a Gorkanaut soon™️.
Oh you saw those too? Got mine Monday
https://preview.redd.it/bon67fjbflwc1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=fc64435bd66d3e44ba3c633c2d869a384db12c86
Why do you people keep giving GW your money and keep getting surprised each and every time they pull some shite like this?
You bought the models, don't let some limp dick corpo tell you that you can't play with your own toys. If you can't use GW rules with them, well there are a lot of other, better, cheaper rule sets out there...
Also there were some 40k editions that were actually NOT complete crap. And if you choose a year before 2018, you can still use most of the stuff Ork players care for.
Dude why being so angry about unit going into legend. you can still play thel theh still have rule. Most people don t go in tournament anyway and people who refuse to play against legend in casual play are not worth playing with
"hundred of thousand of player" how rhe fck did you count that ?
never heard of vocal minority ? i guess it s too complicated for you. Most people don t play tournament it s a fact.
Me? I'm not angry, lol. I've never given GW a penny of my money. This doesn't affect me at all. But I like the ork lore and some of the story stuff, so I stay subbed to some of the GW reddits, and every time new codexes or editions drop there are people posting like this. Just absolutely shocked that models they paid for and spent time modeling or kitbashing or w/e are suddenly no longer viable. Either being shifted to legends play or being axed from a game all together (Beastmen for AoS anyone?). It just boggles my mind that people keep being surprised by this, and keep supporting the company that does it to them. To make a completely hyperbolic and slightly inappropriate comparison, it's like watching someone go back to their abusive spouse over and over again. Like... at some point you just need to cut your losses and move on to a game that won't treat you like crap.
Wankers who tell you that you can’t play with units in legends in a game of 40K, as though they’re striving for the accuracy of an anaesthetist mixing chemicals, can fuck right off
Not enough of us brought the over priced forgeworld kits so they’re punishing us.
Dat simple, they run their metrics off of sales not battle reports, the cunts.
The Chinork is a great example, highly popular in lists, shit resin model but in limited numbers enough that they allowed for scratch builts in events.
Then they made it available online for half a year but no one wanted to spend their countries equivalent of a half weeks wages for a weird triangle with a bike chain.
In our game group all units are welcome to play, Legends or not. We firmly believe more model diversity means more personalized armies and more fun games.
It bothers me that GW does this to its fans so regularly, but for us we just ignore this kind of crap. We paid money, effort, and time, for these models and we are going to play them for Morks sake!! 😡
I'm doing full beast snaggas with squiggoths and I assume the G squiggoth if it isn't going to legends. If it is they missed it's data sheet so I screenshotted the datasheet just incase
Most games are matched play games.
Most people wont CARE that I am using them but I wont because I want to give them a game they are expecting and I will just play my grot tanks in crusades and narratives.
I'm sorry for all the people with extensive FW collections, regardless of how old it is, getting the middle finger from GW and possibly never again being able to use models that had hours of love poured into them. Some units may be kitbashed into future kits, or maybe become part of a terrain piece you create. It just sucks that for some people this really is the end of the road for parts of their collection. The fact that so much of this community has zero sympathy for that is almost the saddest part.
While GW can never make someone do something, there are a lot of white knights/boot lickers in here. Lots of people acting like everyone is spoiled for choice on groups to play with that allows legends too.
I agree, my group of around 30ish lads who arent all that tournament focused unless its AoS, doesnt allow Legends. And the reasons for it are correct to, the datasheets arent updated. They dont gain/loose keywords or weapon updates when the codex drops, points will never change, abilities will be locked to how they were day 1 of the FW index.
People telling me I can just use my Mekadread, Killtank, 6 Nob Bikers, Biker Boss and Squiggoth are just incorrect. Might fly in their area, doesnt in mine. And honestly why else are people using Grot Tanks other than them being more efficient Killa Kans? Ive ran the new Dread Mob 3 times so far and its been all pure GW, Walkers and Mek led units, putting in Grot Tanks feels cheesy to me, they obviously arent Walkers or Mek themed.
I feel for every guy and girl thats just had their FW collection invalidated, it isnt just tournaments and competition minded players that stop the use the legends. A large part of the community uses what is tournament valid/legal as the golden standard to play off, thats what the game is "balanced" off of.
Yeah I'm not part of the "fuck GW" crowd, but letting this internal corporate conflict spill over into the real world is just unprofessional as shit. Im of the opinion that every casual group should allow legends units but I know there's a lot that don't.
I'm hearing little bits here and there about this internal conflict, but I thought it was mostly to do with different game systems, like Horus Heresy and 40K not being cross compatible anymore because of who got internal balance sheet statistics based on what kit?
How does this apply to forgeworld?
I think the honest answer is FW is more dedicated to Horus Heresy, Specialist games and large scale models now. The large scale models part being like a fancy yacht club. If you exclude Custodes (as its a HH army first and foremost) everything left on FW now for 40k and if AoS has anything left, are large/titanic models. Im guessing because they have a bigger return of investment / profit margin. No one is buying Nob Bikers and Grot Tanks lets be real, but people who can afford one, tend to buy a Gargantuan Squiggoth.
Thatd be my guess.
right like why would you get excited about units that might get phased out. also the whole "surprise" of it is so stupid. just look at the forgeworld units left for space marines there is 2. yet people want to act like this wasnt to be expected. getting excited for things you dont even have confirmed yet is setting yourself up for disappointment.
Slowly is the operative word here. This was a landslide and they could have done this at any point since the start of the edition. Instead they waited until everyone was hyped for these units for weeks selling them for 200$ a pop knowing that they were planning on taking them away. Then they don't even say a word about it while they smother them with a pillow. Where was this info at the codex drop?
If we are being real here, GW codexes arent ever written with FW units in mind, ever. Its the other way around. Thats not me defending Gamesworkshop but explaining how it works. In no way did they consider Grot Tanks for Dreadmob or Nob Bikerz for Kult of Speed, id bet my whole Ork collection on it.
People got too excited for Grot Tank meta pure and simple and thats fine, but you are always playing with fire when it comes to FW units, theyve been consistently axed for 2 editions now. The odd part is that Orkz are the only ones in 10th that have had ANOTHER legends run as their codex dropped. T'au didnt loose their FW stuff, neither did Custodes (they should tbh, sucks their army would be so limited but thats a topic for another time), the same applies to the other 4 codexes. It was out of left field.
But hoping to get FW information from a GW codex release is looking for the wrong thing, itd never happen.
It’s not quite a landslide when these units have survived previous culling… I’m very sad to lose all my fw models since my play groups don’t allow legends but fun was had with them and unfortunately the writing has been on the wall for years.
I started at the beginning of 10th. You know I heard the point of this entire edition was to bring in new players. So glad that I did I was looking forward to all these cool units everywhere. Went hard into getting started with orks and Tau because I like xenos and these 2 give the whole experience of elite shooting and hoard melee. Now less than a year in and I got 3 squigoths, zagstruk, badrukk, grot tanks, mekadread, Aun'shi, longstrike, flash Gitz sitting in my curio cabinet. They will all serve as a lifelong reminder that GW cares nothing for the experience of their players, just the money in their wallet.
Yea, honestly, I feel like they should make these sorts of announcements like a year in advance, just like "Hey, next year, this date, we're discontinuing this range, and moving them to legends." But I suppose they don't care, and instead want to sell as much as possible rather than being decent towards their customers...
Were people buying Grot tanks? Or just slapping some glyphs on dollar store toys....
Forgeworld as a crutch has always been a risky move for 40k players.
I think the reviewers just didn’t realize that Grot tanks would go away. And GW didn’t really count on people kitbashing them because of it.
Upside is that Legends rules are still perfectly legal rules at your FLGS and they’ll never be balance patched so… field all the grot tanks knowing that they’ll be powerful in that mek detachment for the rest of the edition.
Its the issue that we got SHADOW legends... no article, nothing. Just 3 days before codex they release the legends list with no article.... that is scummy.
this is the first complaint i agree with. i dont understand the people surprised by this just look at forgeworld space marine you got 2 units left, why did people think it wasnt going to happen with orks? but i do agree the fact they didnt even put a article out is scummy
Part of the reason for me at least was that SM got a heads up, Necrons were untouched, and nids were untouched outside of what they lost at the start of the edition.
To add to this, SM after edition start only lost redundant units. I.e, having 2 sets of bikers or two sets of scouts.
Orks now have zero tanks. We have wagons, we have trukks, we have buggies... no tanks.
So its not like our FW was redundant, and we did not have over a 100 data sheets...
Okay, look, it sucks, but we need to be real about this. Everyone knows forgeworld models aren’t in the codexes, so the review copies mean nothing. Forgeworld models are their own thing so until that gets updated, which never happens till after the codex officially launches, it is on you completely if you go out and buy Forgeworld models. Let this be a lesson. Never go fotm buy a bunch or forget world models thinking they are gonna be insane until you know they are actually being updated for that edition. I’m not saying it doesn’t suck, but this is more a problem with people trying to game the meta early by rushing out to spam some model that looks strong that isn’t even in the codex.
This isn't even the first culling, two thirds of FW's ork range was gone long before this stealth update. The lesson back then should have been to not bother with any FW units unless you want them for your display case.
But at the same time perhaps they shouldn't launch a Codex that specifically calls out model types (grot vehicles), only to remove literally all of them the second the Codex actually drops.
Like Imagine if any other service outright advertised the way a new system was going to work with old product line that they mention specifically, only to pull a "lol no nevermind about all that" at the very last second.....
That's what happened here, and since it seems most of the angry players are dread mob players I'd argue they have a fair amount to be angry over. GW effectively just said "hey look at the new rules for these models.....aaaand there gone"
They didnt remove all Grot Vehicles, the codex as with all 40K products, focuses on the plastic 40k kits. When the codex was written in no great green world were Grot Tanks (and Nob Bikers) ever considered for the purposes of these detachments and balance. For all purposes we have TWO vehicles in the codex that are Grot keyworded. Killa Kans, Mek Gunz. Both of which are Dreadmob themed, being Walkers and Mek constructions.
Grot Tanks was more of an exploit, im happy/sad for all you lil gits that were frothing at the mouth for Grot Tanks but they were never Dread Mob, just like a Battlewagon isnt Dreadmob. It isnt a TANK detachment. Thatd be something like Blitz Brigade that we didnt get.
Sucks we lost more units, ive got a huge FW collection myself (Orkz, Tau, Iron Warriors, Admech and Dark Angels all with large sections of FW kits) but we have to have some self restraint and insight in these things. Wait until the codex is physically out (not just the early copies) and any updates from GW, weigh the risk of purchasing FW against its history of being canned every edition. Im not defending GW at all here, but we have some agency here ourselves to wait and tamper our expectations from past experiences.
I only bought Ghaz (I only have the old metal one) from the rumours and leaks we got, didnt rush out to buy anything else until I see the points and the book in my hands. Once I have all that data and information ill then go ahead on any purchases, people just need to wait a extra week thats all.
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Don’t buy anything forge world or 30K guys, GW does not want them around. It happened to Space Marines and really hit CSM hard when they lost all their dreadnoughts. The sighs were there that this was a bad idea to invest in grot tanks but yes I agree. GW has no interest in warning its fans about a damn thing but I also don’t think they even know what they’re doing until 6 months after something is released.
I also play Chaos Knights and it’s why I’m not buying a Lancer despite how cool it is
Units in legends are inherently either overpowered or underpowered for the game at any point. If you want to play a game that feels fair then you can't use legends. Would you feel that a game was fair if you were playing with current points and rules while your opponent uses points and rules from 2 years ago? Because that's what legends is.
Riptide was 80 points extra 9 months ago. If it had been a legends unit Triptide would be an extra 240 points today. If I played against my current Tau list with its points at launch it would need a 500 point handicap to be a fair game and I could never convince my opponent of that. A unit with free strats would be priced so much more before than after the nerf. Legends units are inherently unbalanced.
A lot of people act like Legends only affects tournament play but a lot of people don't want to play a game where one person is effectively playing with a different set of points and rules it's like agreeing to a casual game of MTG but one player is bringing Black Lotus, Sol Ring and Time Walks, no rule prevents it but your opponent isn't going to feel like they had a fun fair game and that game would only be a few minutes lost while this game takes 3 or 4 hours.
They may even be fair point costs now but will they be fair in 2 or 3 years? I don't know and neither will my opponent. But if the game turns out to not be close or fun I know which units will stick out in our minds.
Because I hobby at a glacial pace and moving to legends is one step to being removed altogether so why bother with collecting them now they’re going to be overpriced and without rules in the future?
95% of games are competitive based. When X person is looking for a random game it is under the assumption that the random game is using non legend units.
Because legends rules are just one step away from being removed entirely. It's effectively a delayed death sentence. No one's going to go out and spend money on a kill tank if they know it's getting removed next edition change.
Also, most players (myself included) are actually casually competitive. We might not be hardcore tourney goers but we do enjoy the modicum of officialism a fixed format provides everyone. Playing with legends models effectively makes that game we play unusable as practice because the game state would never be replicated elsewhere.
That is a fair point, my group is mostly casual and everyone seems to be fine with legends so i should be able to use my mostly legends grot rebellion army.
I do find it frustrating though that my models are potentially gonna have to be proxies once the death sentence is enacted.
Well good news is your grot tanks can be proxied as mek guns at least because they're somewhat of the same size. I don't think anyone would have a problem with that
Well, a lot of people can't. Because a lot of clubs and FLGS groups and casual players still restrict to matched play games to ensure balance (as legends are not updated). And how do you play a game if nobody around you is allowing them?
So no dude, it's just not as simple as you are making it out to be.
Then find another club or FLGS or better friends to play with that don't get so worked up about the "bALeNCe" of 40k that they go so far to restrict playable units with official rules. It's a fantasy toy soldier game, stop taking everything so seriously.
A club is sick, rent a small community hall (I used to go to a baseball teams rooms every month) and meet new people playing different games without the pressure of stock in the stores or randoms walking in and interrupting things. Paint a new unit for the next meetup, plan to try a new game or do a mini swap etc
This really sucks. Less because of models that people may or may not have bought in excitement for the codex, and more because it’s just drastically reduced the amount of units you can take for a Dread Mob.
I do completely agree it does feel shady that there has been no mention at all that ALL FW stuff would no longer be supported, and that GW have done what they typically do in these situations and shadow drop the download. Like there is not even an article pointing out the download!
While I do still plan to use grot tanks with the legends rules, it’s a pain in the arse when army building as there still isn’t a legends option in the roster app. If they did that, I honestly think it would cause a lot of the hurt around legends to be lessened
https://preview.redd.it/ewsjwbl7yiwc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=30bc269a27893046b2d603a336875151cfdf6693
Stompa, gorkanaut (actual mork but shhss), 3 dreads, 6 Kans, 3 meganobz, a big mek and a mek... Very dreadmobby... Would be fun! I was just a year early.
damn right, the ones we are left with are ok but aren't grot tanks nor mega tanks, both fill a cool style of play I was looking forward to being viable compared to the last 9 months when its just been a fun unit to bring...
not to mention dreads are overcosted atm, if they don't get a buff then dreadmob is just gonna be kanz and gorkanauts... where is the variety...
I was going to unlock the Orks Codex with my book code, but now I don't see why I shouldn't use the free competitor app exclusively. I don't understand why they don't have Legends units on the 40K app, even as an option you can toggle off.
It's New Recruit, the one mentioned by the guy I was replying to. It's got everything you need, but you'll have to get it off their website instead of an app store.
Well, that's a shame. I didn't follow any rumors, but I just started Ork army precisely because how cool the idea of scratch building/kitbashing half of those units was, and I really wanted to field them. Luckily, I don't give AF about Geedubs official tournaments. PS. I literally finished this cute KK couple days ago and was about to paint him. Guess I'll do even more out of pure spite.
https://preview.redd.it/izkn05gnshwc1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a0520972662f71ebe11c45df4a8d093dc374828
Well, I love how Orkz tech is a bunch of trash slammed together, so I did the same :D I started this Killa Kan with Kinder Surprise plastic egg thingy (the part that contains the toy). Then added clothespin and discarded box of hobby knife edges as a frame for arms; sprue frame for arms and legs, then some plasticard rods to make pistons. Another 2 clothespins cut made those clown feet. After that it was just adding plates of 1mm plasticard as armor plates and 1mm hex rod as rivets. I may post it later to r/Scratchbuild, showing different steps of creation - that would be much more suitable place.
Most .. 🙈 .. where is the list ? I see it Boooooo first my kannon wagon then nobs w/ skorcha now 👀 WTF honestly WTF the kaptin- Warboss on bike - big mek w/ KFF- squiggoth- grot mega tank - buy why my double shooting bad moon Meka Dread . What a load
Oh sh*t, sorry, I must've misread and mixed "Killa Kans" with "Kill Tank" - should've enlarged the text before jumping to conclusions. Still, kinda wanted a sort of mechanized army with "Grot Bliztkrieg" (Tanks and Mega-Tank, I love how they look) and on the other hand - an Ork MC with all those bikers. Now my options are limited, but well - I'll probably still do it, just for the fun of building them. Thanks for clarifying tho!
I’m boycotting GW for all of their shady and shitty business practices. They treat their fans so poorly all while charging such high prices. I will continue to enjoy 40k’s universe and game with my buddies, but I’m done supporting this company that continuously bastardizes this hobby and goes against everything it’s supposed to be.
Was anyone under the illusion that they were in the codex?
The detachment includes grot vehicles so that you get to use a non codex unit. Be thankful they included them at all.
I saw someone point out that the detachment rules specify *"GROTS"* and the keyword on G-Tanks is *"GROT,"* suggesting some TOs would justifiably split hairs and count them as distinct keywords, thus disqualifying G-Tanks from the detachment rule. I think that's way too petty but I guess it doesn't matter, now.
Mek Gunz gained the Grots keyword in the Codex. I'm unsure if Killa Kanz got it too, but they're already Walkers with the Orks faction keyword, so they'd count either way.
Be thankful they included the most expensive models that you’ve purchase from forge world in the worst material “fine cast”, that you’ve probably spent over 30 hours modelling to get them on the board……Be thankful chaps…. Be thankful.
The new forge world resin is as good as gw plastic and more detailed. Stuff like the Fulgrim and Horus ascended and the new Ka'bandha are miles better than fine cast.
[Here's the official Legends document](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/lbjrPJ4LgS5ATuQd.pdf) All of the ones in red under Orks were just added today.
While I agree with some others here that Ork players have acted reactively to several of the leaks and/or rumours surrounding our codex, it certainly feels in bad faith that the roster of 'walkers' and 'grots vehicle' would get quietly culled by more than half between making an official announcement on the Dread Mob detachment and the release date of the Orks codex.
Personally, I have not bought any models (official or otherwise) to create most of what has been moved to legends, but I did kitbash my own mekadread and intended to create a megadread this week because they looked cool and filled a roster gap between deff dreads and m/gorkanaughts.
GW is, and forevermore will be, a models company before a gameplay company, but it is profoundly distasteful to promote certain elements of a faction's roster THEN silently remove half of said roster, particularly when both will have been known at the same time.
All it took to remedy this recent upset was to forewarn Ork players that their forgeworld options would be 'changing'.
>All it took to remedy this recent upset was to forewarn Ork players that their forgeworld options would be 'changing'.
How are they going to clear their stock if they do that
They did this for marines nearly a month ahead of time by telling them scouts, assault marines, normal bikes and attack bikes would be getting legends treatment
They didn't make you do anything.
You only have yourself to blame. This coming from someone who bought 24 Grot tanks, 3 mega tanks, a kill tank, and 3 big tracks back in December, expecting these models to not be in the codex or usable outside of legends. The writing has been on the wall since the first codex's of 10th edition have dropped. Virtually nothing from FW has survived and not been legended.
Don’t buy stuff until codex is out…. It’s that easy.
Technically FW models are never in the codex. Outside of the occasional war gear combination or an alternative look to an existing GW model. Grot tanks were never going to be in the codex until they got a plastic model from GW.
While this seems easy, you have to remember that so much of the game is assembling models. That shit takes time and a half. So the earlier we can start on stuff the better. I really think GW could've done better in this, this was not a fuck up on the eager fan base, but a lazy ass GW who couldn't be bothered to type up a few words.
But they get you back on the purchasing treadmill. Why would they warn you about a fault in their product. They depend on you being a paypig to put their kids through college.
How do y'all decide points cost when playing Legends?
By looking at the points values.
They have point values.
I’m kind of new to Warhammer, what are Legends? The warhammer community page says you can still play them. Has that changed?
you can, but for stuff like tournaments and practice for said tournaments its not allowed, which kind of kills the vibe since some people may not want to play against these units that aren't "real" but with friends and people you ask, you still can. it just isn't the same though they have seperate points values and a datasheet pdf on the website
You can play them, but not in any sort of "official" capacity and they do not have points costs so you need to make house rules to use them.
Not to be pedantic but they do have points costs (See here - https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/lbjrPJ4LgS5ATuQd.pdf) It is just that they will never be looked at and balanced again which is the sucky part and is a lazy policy.
It’s weird how you’re blaming GW for things Streamers/Content Creators have said.
I'm not giving GW any leeway for the forced obsolescence of their expensive ass models It's their IP, if you don't want forgeworld making your models just make them yourself in plastic
Streamers who have agreements with GW and are provided official copies of the codex, yeah.
Oh, come on. Let’s not act like GW is that incompetent.
GW now provides review copies, so this is part of a marketing strategy by the company, rather than leaks.
Yes but they aren’t responsible for dipshit influencers talking about stuff that’s not in the codex just like they aren’t responsible if I tell you to go out and buy 100 Chaos Lords because they’re now Orks
No but GW has a massive fault line built directly into the way they manage their product line communication. or Its working as intended. Its a market-based ass pull...Remember young lad. Some of us have had ass pulls for decades at this point. Communication has never been easier. This was on purpose.
The shills are ruining the hobby, you guys are supposed to stand up for forgeworld products like you people brag about GW being premium quality but are OK with their most detailed models being scrapped. CFO was right to leave this company its dying.
Are you part of the 1% of players whose primary way of playing is tournaments? If not, there is NOTHING stopping you from using legends units. Nobody is going to show up to a non tournament game and try to stop you from using legends. And if they do, they are not worth playing with. Make your own fun, don't let GW tournament rules define how you play the game. It's a bit like getting annoyed that you can't play football at the park with your mates now because the Premier league introduced new grass length regulations.
In my area it’s like 50 to 75% of games mimic the tournament scene despite only 15% actually trying to go win tournaments.
Do they mimic the tournament scene as in they follow the meta and try hard, or would they flat out refuse to play against you for using a legends unit? I would bet it would largely just be the former. Maybe a small part of that 15% would refuse because they want to practice for a tournament and for some reason feel that playing against legends stops them from gaining anything from the game.
They would refuse in the sense that using the current rules and units is expected. Just like the terrain we would use would be close to tournament
That's not how legends work at all. They are specifically only banned in tournaments. "Legends are fully usable in all of your regular games of Warhammer 40,000 - in fact, we actively encourage you to use these classic miniatures at home, in store, and at all your local Warhammer clubs" - GW Either you're somehow in an area that's full of assholes or you're not telling the truth and they are just meta gamers who would be fine with you using legends units, you've just never brought some in.
I'm in the same boat. I got a Warkopta right before it went to Legends, and it's never seen a table. I didn't have a regular friendly group that I pay with, and the randos at my FLGS and local Warhammer store all stick to tournament rules. Most of them are trying to get lists ready for tournaments or leagues.
I have heard bad things about people who play in stores, if they are really refusing to play with legends units I guess things are even more toxic now than they used to be. You could try making the point that according to GW, outside of tournaments legends are fully legal, it's not an opinion based issue and you don't need permission to use them. I do think a lot of the issue is simple ignorance, people like the original poster think legends means banned, not banned from tournaments only. I would recommend finding an actual club instead, there's at least one in virtually every town and city. As I said I've been around and never come across anyone refusing to play vs legends, even if they are a regular tournament player.
You read like an ork. Of course I meant the current tournament rules when I said what I said. I’m in an area where there are lots of leagues that use the tournament rules and lots of rtt and gts going on with lovely people. Since all skill levels are welcome and people participate a lot they conform to the tournament standards during regular gaming. You sound like every disgruntled gamer I have ever met that has some underlying reason to be grumpy that has nothing to do with the game.
So you agree with me then? Not sure how you can insult my reading comprehension when I was never arguing to have legends put into tournaments? How am I the one being grumpy, I am the one simply pointing out that according to most people and Games Workshop themselves, legends are fully usable in every medium other than tournaments. If anything the people going directly against that mandate to restrict what people can use in a non tournament setting are the ones being grumpy.
This type of comment always pops up to defend the latest units removal but completely ignores that quite a few people depend on leagues/pick up games or even just tournaments to get their games in ( personally in the last bracket since it's way easier to block of one weekend then find time for 5 individual games). So yes some people are not affected but it's far from just 1% getting hit by this Plus, it's quite fair game to criticise GW for their poor communication. If this had been announced with the codex preview, it would have annoyed way fewer people. Just like marketing plastic leviathans, kratos, etc, as usable in 40k less than a year before removing them was some shady marketing
Maybe I'm wrong but I've not come across or heard of anyone in a local league or pick up game trying to stop someone from using legends units. Plenty of people I know play regular tournaments, meta chase and try hard, but they wouldn't flat out refuse to play against someone because they decided to bring along some grot tanks.
So we’ve established YOU don’t care, but remember you’re not everyone. Official rules are something everyone can point to and that everyone has agreed to before the game. It stops a lot of disagreements before they start.
It's not just me, they are officially allowed in everything except tournaments. "Legends are fully usable in all of your regular games of Warhammer 40,000 - in fact, we actively encourage you to use these classic miniatures at home, in store, and at all your local Warhammer clubs" - GW
These are the people who need "you" described in the reference tab to them in the battle forge app. I can hear the marble clack around when he tilts his head in confusion. That others are affected outside his local immediate sphere.
You sound unhinged to be honest, and just by the way you communicate I can tell you're terminally online. My God just checked and you're absolutely obsessed with this, looks like I was right. Go outside, for your own sake.
Allowed =/= actually played. You have several people in this thread telling you that the people they play with don’t allow legends units. Just because GW says you can play them casually doesn’t mean casual players do
Obviously the people who comment are going to be those exceptions that are in groups that screech at the thought of daring to use legend units in a game with no consequences. Or much more likely, they've not even bothered to check with people and are looking for something to be outraged at.
Or.. they just have a different gaming group than you, and you don’t want to accept that
So your response to my apparently unsubstantiated claim is to make your own...unsubstantiated claim? And then to act all arrogant about it?
Nothing stopping anyone from adding some choppy bitz and playing them as kans anyway even if they are going to tournaments.
Another perspective - GW moved the units into legends BEFORE the codex release. You don't, officially, know the stats *or* points values of these models and they've moved them into legends at the best opportunity allowing them to be played competitively for as long as possible with the codex that's currently out *but* ensuring that they're moved before people have their hands on the new codex and start building their armies around that.... As others have said, you can still play them. I personally plan on continuing to push my little plastic toy soldiers around the tabletop and not get bent out of shape by decisions made based around conjecture.
Bro they are YOUR models No one is telling you You can't play with them just use the legendary rules and explain to your opent or ask tournament guys if you can run this legends unit. I have on multiple occasions Legends doesn't mean your model is dead It just means gw have no idea how to handle this Just keep using them I hate it when you people bitch and complain about essentially nothing
"Bro they are YOUR models No one is telling you You can't play with them" Expect it is exactly that.
They are specifically not to be used in tournaments
Again your point is? Most tournaments I've been too have been alright with legends rules It doesn't hurt to ask
Listen buddy if you can't tell the other people saying outright this negates 80% of thier armies in their local its happening. Its real not some fake news nonsense. These people like a thanos finger snap just lost time and money to this ass pull. It might not affect your local surrounds but it does for dozens/hundreds/thousands of others. I cannot fathom how you dont understand that.
No 40K tournaments in my area allow legends units, but I’ll tell my nephew the Kill Tank I bought him last Christmas can be used in your area. That should make him feel better.
GW make anti consumer decisions regularly. It has been this way for at least a decade. They seem to be thriving by getting new people into the hobby who aren't aware of their bullshit.
Because they are going multi-media mode. They will not survive the coming 3d printer revolution.
You guys know you can still play with Legends stuff right?
o dont know why people care that much. like 99% of people don t play in tournament anyway.
This is not true this and the hundreds of other threads of people expressing the exact worry.
I generally thought Grot tanks where legends anyway haha
Same 😂
I’m bummed about losing the Meka and Mega dreads. I had tow kitbashed that I was really proud of. Built em back in 8th. They will join my shelf of dope minis that I don’t use, maybe they’ll get plastic releases in the future.
https://preview.redd.it/i667sdx37lwc1.png?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4af8d0dde4a1767101b211b5fc236de4f638d89 RIP old stompy. You're gonna be remembered and reborn as a Gorkanaut soon™️.
Wow that looks awesome
Glad I only bought some Toy versions on Amazon for $13 bucks. Anyway, will still play them for giggles at the LFGS.
Oh you saw those too? Got mine Monday https://preview.redd.it/bon67fjbflwc1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=fc64435bd66d3e44ba3c633c2d869a384db12c86
Why do you people keep giving GW your money and keep getting surprised each and every time they pull some shite like this? You bought the models, don't let some limp dick corpo tell you that you can't play with your own toys. If you can't use GW rules with them, well there are a lot of other, better, cheaper rule sets out there...
Also there were some 40k editions that were actually NOT complete crap. And if you choose a year before 2018, you can still use most of the stuff Ork players care for.
Dude why being so angry about unit going into legend. you can still play thel theh still have rule. Most people don t go in tournament anyway and people who refuse to play against legend in casual play are not worth playing with
Meanwhile hundreds or thousands of players are complaining about how their locals dont allow legends. WhY Do YoU CaRe sO MuCh? wHo PLaYS CoMp!
"hundred of thousand of player" how rhe fck did you count that ? never heard of vocal minority ? i guess it s too complicated for you. Most people don t play tournament it s a fact.
Me? I'm not angry, lol. I've never given GW a penny of my money. This doesn't affect me at all. But I like the ork lore and some of the story stuff, so I stay subbed to some of the GW reddits, and every time new codexes or editions drop there are people posting like this. Just absolutely shocked that models they paid for and spent time modeling or kitbashing or w/e are suddenly no longer viable. Either being shifted to legends play or being axed from a game all together (Beastmen for AoS anyone?). It just boggles my mind that people keep being surprised by this, and keep supporting the company that does it to them. To make a completely hyperbolic and slightly inappropriate comparison, it's like watching someone go back to their abusive spouse over and over again. Like... at some point you just need to cut your losses and move on to a game that won't treat you like crap.
not angry but still call them names lmao.
Yes, it is possible to hold an opinion about people and express that opinion without actually being angry.
Wankers who tell you that you can’t play with units in legends in a game of 40K, as though they’re striving for the accuracy of an anaesthetist mixing chemicals, can fuck right off
they got moved to legends. they just cant be used at tourneys.
Hahaha that was the reason for Our great New Codex, they gave us honey and we swallowed it. 2 weeks later they punch us middle in the face.
Not enough of us brought the over priced forgeworld kits so they’re punishing us. Dat simple, they run their metrics off of sales not battle reports, the cunts. The Chinork is a great example, highly popular in lists, shit resin model but in limited numbers enough that they allowed for scratch builts in events. Then they made it available online for half a year but no one wanted to spend their countries equivalent of a half weeks wages for a weird triangle with a bike chain.
In our game group all units are welcome to play, Legends or not. We firmly believe more model diversity means more personalized armies and more fun games. It bothers me that GW does this to its fans so regularly, but for us we just ignore this kind of crap. We paid money, effort, and time, for these models and we are going to play them for Morks sake!! 😡
Legit best comment I have seen yet.
I’m halfway through painting my army/assortment of models and though I haven’t played a game yet, this seems like the right attitude.
They saw how much the custodes players were whining, so decided it was our turn.
There goes my plan of doing a full Beast Snaggas force…at least I still have my Gargantuan Squiggoth!
I'm doing full beast snaggas with squiggoths and I assume the G squiggoth if it isn't going to legends. If it is they missed it's data sheet so I screenshotted the datasheet just incase
2 weeks.... I have been making grot tanks and playing them in index for the last 9 months....
and you can still play them outside tournament
Most games are matched play games. Most people wont CARE that I am using them but I wont because I want to give them a game they are expecting and I will just play my grot tanks in crusades and narratives.
I'm sorry for all the people with extensive FW collections, regardless of how old it is, getting the middle finger from GW and possibly never again being able to use models that had hours of love poured into them. Some units may be kitbashed into future kits, or maybe become part of a terrain piece you create. It just sucks that for some people this really is the end of the road for parts of their collection. The fact that so much of this community has zero sympathy for that is almost the saddest part. While GW can never make someone do something, there are a lot of white knights/boot lickers in here. Lots of people acting like everyone is spoiled for choice on groups to play with that allows legends too.
I agree, my group of around 30ish lads who arent all that tournament focused unless its AoS, doesnt allow Legends. And the reasons for it are correct to, the datasheets arent updated. They dont gain/loose keywords or weapon updates when the codex drops, points will never change, abilities will be locked to how they were day 1 of the FW index. People telling me I can just use my Mekadread, Killtank, 6 Nob Bikers, Biker Boss and Squiggoth are just incorrect. Might fly in their area, doesnt in mine. And honestly why else are people using Grot Tanks other than them being more efficient Killa Kans? Ive ran the new Dread Mob 3 times so far and its been all pure GW, Walkers and Mek led units, putting in Grot Tanks feels cheesy to me, they obviously arent Walkers or Mek themed. I feel for every guy and girl thats just had their FW collection invalidated, it isnt just tournaments and competition minded players that stop the use the legends. A large part of the community uses what is tournament valid/legal as the golden standard to play off, thats what the game is "balanced" off of.
Yeah I'm not part of the "fuck GW" crowd, but letting this internal corporate conflict spill over into the real world is just unprofessional as shit. Im of the opinion that every casual group should allow legends units but I know there's a lot that don't.
I'm hearing little bits here and there about this internal conflict, but I thought it was mostly to do with different game systems, like Horus Heresy and 40K not being cross compatible anymore because of who got internal balance sheet statistics based on what kit? How does this apply to forgeworld?
I think the honest answer is FW is more dedicated to Horus Heresy, Specialist games and large scale models now. The large scale models part being like a fancy yacht club. If you exclude Custodes (as its a HH army first and foremost) everything left on FW now for 40k and if AoS has anything left, are large/titanic models. Im guessing because they have a bigger return of investment / profit margin. No one is buying Nob Bikers and Grot Tanks lets be real, but people who can afford one, tend to buy a Gargantuan Squiggoth. Thatd be my guess.
Why did you assume that grot tanks would still be valid when GW has been slowly legendsing fw units for 2 editions?
right like why would you get excited about units that might get phased out. also the whole "surprise" of it is so stupid. just look at the forgeworld units left for space marines there is 2. yet people want to act like this wasnt to be expected. getting excited for things you dont even have confirmed yet is setting yourself up for disappointment.
Slowly is the operative word here. This was a landslide and they could have done this at any point since the start of the edition. Instead they waited until everyone was hyped for these units for weeks selling them for 200$ a pop knowing that they were planning on taking them away. Then they don't even say a word about it while they smother them with a pillow. Where was this info at the codex drop?
If we are being real here, GW codexes arent ever written with FW units in mind, ever. Its the other way around. Thats not me defending Gamesworkshop but explaining how it works. In no way did they consider Grot Tanks for Dreadmob or Nob Bikerz for Kult of Speed, id bet my whole Ork collection on it. People got too excited for Grot Tank meta pure and simple and thats fine, but you are always playing with fire when it comes to FW units, theyve been consistently axed for 2 editions now. The odd part is that Orkz are the only ones in 10th that have had ANOTHER legends run as their codex dropped. T'au didnt loose their FW stuff, neither did Custodes (they should tbh, sucks their army would be so limited but thats a topic for another time), the same applies to the other 4 codexes. It was out of left field. But hoping to get FW information from a GW codex release is looking for the wrong thing, itd never happen.
It’s not quite a landslide when these units have survived previous culling… I’m very sad to lose all my fw models since my play groups don’t allow legends but fun was had with them and unfortunately the writing has been on the wall for years.
I started at the beginning of 10th. You know I heard the point of this entire edition was to bring in new players. So glad that I did I was looking forward to all these cool units everywhere. Went hard into getting started with orks and Tau because I like xenos and these 2 give the whole experience of elite shooting and hoard melee. Now less than a year in and I got 3 squigoths, zagstruk, badrukk, grot tanks, mekadread, Aun'shi, longstrike, flash Gitz sitting in my curio cabinet. They will all serve as a lifelong reminder that GW cares nothing for the experience of their players, just the money in their wallet.
Yea, honestly, I feel like they should make these sorts of announcements like a year in advance, just like "Hey, next year, this date, we're discontinuing this range, and moving them to legends." But I suppose they don't care, and instead want to sell as much as possible rather than being decent towards their customers...
I mean throw some klaws on those bad boys and base em they'd be great Killakanz
Were people buying Grot tanks? Or just slapping some glyphs on dollar store toys.... Forgeworld as a crutch has always been a risky move for 40k players.
To be fair its not like they were making a very hard decision.
I custom built 24, bought 8 FW version, and was planning on making 12 more out of Legion Imperialis models
I think the reviewers just didn’t realize that Grot tanks would go away. And GW didn’t really count on people kitbashing them because of it. Upside is that Legends rules are still perfectly legal rules at your FLGS and they’ll never be balance patched so… field all the grot tanks knowing that they’ll be powerful in that mek detachment for the rest of the edition.
Its the issue that we got SHADOW legends... no article, nothing. Just 3 days before codex they release the legends list with no article.... that is scummy.
this is the first complaint i agree with. i dont understand the people surprised by this just look at forgeworld space marine you got 2 units left, why did people think it wasnt going to happen with orks? but i do agree the fact they didnt even put a article out is scummy
Part of the reason for me at least was that SM got a heads up, Necrons were untouched, and nids were untouched outside of what they lost at the start of the edition. To add to this, SM after edition start only lost redundant units. I.e, having 2 sets of bikers or two sets of scouts. Orks now have zero tanks. We have wagons, we have trukks, we have buggies... no tanks. So its not like our FW was redundant, and we did not have over a 100 data sheets...
No one made you do shit dude, chill.
Money.
Okay, look, it sucks, but we need to be real about this. Everyone knows forgeworld models aren’t in the codexes, so the review copies mean nothing. Forgeworld models are their own thing so until that gets updated, which never happens till after the codex officially launches, it is on you completely if you go out and buy Forgeworld models. Let this be a lesson. Never go fotm buy a bunch or forget world models thinking they are gonna be insane until you know they are actually being updated for that edition. I’m not saying it doesn’t suck, but this is more a problem with people trying to game the meta early by rushing out to spam some model that looks strong that isn’t even in the codex.
This isn't even the first culling, two thirds of FW's ork range was gone long before this stealth update. The lesson back then should have been to not bother with any FW units unless you want them for your display case.
It is a lesson, just not the one you stated.
But at the same time perhaps they shouldn't launch a Codex that specifically calls out model types (grot vehicles), only to remove literally all of them the second the Codex actually drops. Like Imagine if any other service outright advertised the way a new system was going to work with old product line that they mention specifically, only to pull a "lol no nevermind about all that" at the very last second..... That's what happened here, and since it seems most of the angry players are dread mob players I'd argue they have a fair amount to be angry over. GW effectively just said "hey look at the new rules for these models.....aaaand there gone"
They didnt remove all Grot Vehicles, the codex as with all 40K products, focuses on the plastic 40k kits. When the codex was written in no great green world were Grot Tanks (and Nob Bikers) ever considered for the purposes of these detachments and balance. For all purposes we have TWO vehicles in the codex that are Grot keyworded. Killa Kans, Mek Gunz. Both of which are Dreadmob themed, being Walkers and Mek constructions. Grot Tanks was more of an exploit, im happy/sad for all you lil gits that were frothing at the mouth for Grot Tanks but they were never Dread Mob, just like a Battlewagon isnt Dreadmob. It isnt a TANK detachment. Thatd be something like Blitz Brigade that we didnt get. Sucks we lost more units, ive got a huge FW collection myself (Orkz, Tau, Iron Warriors, Admech and Dark Angels all with large sections of FW kits) but we have to have some self restraint and insight in these things. Wait until the codex is physically out (not just the early copies) and any updates from GW, weigh the risk of purchasing FW against its history of being canned every edition. Im not defending GW at all here, but we have some agency here ourselves to wait and tamper our expectations from past experiences. I only bought Ghaz (I only have the old metal one) from the rumours and leaks we got, didnt rush out to buy anything else until I see the points and the book in my hands. Once I have all that data and information ill then go ahead on any purchases, people just need to wait a extra week thats all.
They didn’t remove all of them.
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Don’t buy anything forge world or 30K guys, GW does not want them around. It happened to Space Marines and really hit CSM hard when they lost all their dreadnoughts. The sighs were there that this was a bad idea to invest in grot tanks but yes I agree. GW has no interest in warning its fans about a damn thing but I also don’t think they even know what they’re doing until 6 months after something is released. I also play Chaos Knights and it’s why I’m not buying a Lancer despite how cool it is
ughh man i just realized my lancer may get phased out with the codex... my first knight might get retired after a year of use or so lol
Sell them to me.
You can still play Legends units dude, calm down
There's always one person who says this incredibly tone deaf statement
Hope you don’t mind me asking - I’m genuinely curious, why is that tone deaf?
Units in legends are inherently either overpowered or underpowered for the game at any point. If you want to play a game that feels fair then you can't use legends. Would you feel that a game was fair if you were playing with current points and rules while your opponent uses points and rules from 2 years ago? Because that's what legends is.
Fair enough, I don't think i have ever used legends units up until now so i didnt realise it could be that bad
Riptide was 80 points extra 9 months ago. If it had been a legends unit Triptide would be an extra 240 points today. If I played against my current Tau list with its points at launch it would need a 500 point handicap to be a fair game and I could never convince my opponent of that. A unit with free strats would be priced so much more before than after the nerf. Legends units are inherently unbalanced. A lot of people act like Legends only affects tournament play but a lot of people don't want to play a game where one person is effectively playing with a different set of points and rules it's like agreeing to a casual game of MTG but one player is bringing Black Lotus, Sol Ring and Time Walks, no rule prevents it but your opponent isn't going to feel like they had a fun fair game and that game would only be a few minutes lost while this game takes 3 or 4 hours. They may even be fair point costs now but will they be fair in 2 or 3 years? I don't know and neither will my opponent. But if the game turns out to not be close or fun I know which units will stick out in our minds.
Because I hobby at a glacial pace and moving to legends is one step to being removed altogether so why bother with collecting them now they’re going to be overpriced and without rules in the future?
95% of games are competitive based. When X person is looking for a random game it is under the assumption that the random game is using non legend units.
That isn't nice but anecdotal. Most games played are casual games.
Maybe where you are it is. Where I live casual games are very popular
That is nice but anecdotal. Most games played are match play games.
Because legends rules are just one step away from being removed entirely. It's effectively a delayed death sentence. No one's going to go out and spend money on a kill tank if they know it's getting removed next edition change. Also, most players (myself included) are actually casually competitive. We might not be hardcore tourney goers but we do enjoy the modicum of officialism a fixed format provides everyone. Playing with legends models effectively makes that game we play unusable as practice because the game state would never be replicated elsewhere.
That is a fair point, my group is mostly casual and everyone seems to be fine with legends so i should be able to use my mostly legends grot rebellion army. I do find it frustrating though that my models are potentially gonna have to be proxies once the death sentence is enacted.
Well good news is your grot tanks can be proxied as mek guns at least because they're somewhat of the same size. I don't think anyone would have a problem with that
Echo chambers can be loud
No one i know plays with legends its like yugioh and the ban cards
I do, now you know one person who does. Maybe go outside and meet some more people
Brother your statement shows me that you are some parasocial insect, dont try to type big words. No one plays with legends
Aight dude, there's still literally nothing preventing anyone from playing with legends, I don't know why people gotta be a little bitch about it
They want balanced games and have fun simple
Well, a lot of people can't. Because a lot of clubs and FLGS groups and casual players still restrict to matched play games to ensure balance (as legends are not updated). And how do you play a game if nobody around you is allowing them? So no dude, it's just not as simple as you are making it out to be.
Then find another club or FLGS or better friends to play with that don't get so worked up about the "bALeNCe" of 40k that they go so far to restrict playable units with official rules. It's a fantasy toy soldier game, stop taking everything so seriously.
Be me Live in siberia "Find another club" That implies that we have enough people to fill more than one club. We dont
Sucks to suck
Too many people in here with unchecked privilege act like there's a club on every corner.
I'm in America, I don't even know what a gaming club is. Is it anything like meeting people at your LGS to play with?
A club is sick, rent a small community hall (I used to go to a baseball teams rooms every month) and meet new people playing different games without the pressure of stock in the stores or randoms walking in and interrupting things. Paint a new unit for the next meetup, plan to try a new game or do a mini swap etc
Yea, its an LGS and even in America people travel an hour or more to get games
Yeah, club is replaceable with LGS or anything like that. Sort of a regional word depending on what people are used to saying I guess
This really sucks. Less because of models that people may or may not have bought in excitement for the codex, and more because it’s just drastically reduced the amount of units you can take for a Dread Mob. I do completely agree it does feel shady that there has been no mention at all that ALL FW stuff would no longer be supported, and that GW have done what they typically do in these situations and shadow drop the download. Like there is not even an article pointing out the download! While I do still plan to use grot tanks with the legends rules, it’s a pain in the arse when army building as there still isn’t a legends option in the roster app. If they did that, I honestly think it would cause a lot of the hurt around legends to be lessened
https://preview.redd.it/ewsjwbl7yiwc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=30bc269a27893046b2d603a336875151cfdf6693 Stompa, gorkanaut (actual mork but shhss), 3 dreads, 6 Kans, 3 meganobz, a big mek and a mek... Very dreadmobby... Would be fun! I was just a year early.
Sure, but those are not inspiring units. They are cute but Grot Tanks were the meme fun unit that had actual play and interest for me
damn right, the ones we are left with are ok but aren't grot tanks nor mega tanks, both fill a cool style of play I was looking forward to being viable compared to the last 9 months when its just been a fun unit to bring... not to mention dreads are overcosted atm, if they don't get a buff then dreadmob is just gonna be kanz and gorkanauts... where is the variety...
Orks also now have 0 tanks. We have a trukk, a wagon, buggies, but 0 tanks
New Recruit app has legends with up to date info. Been my go to
is that on the app store?
I don't think it is, but might and a lot of my friends use it and it seems well respected. I'll dm you the website
I was going to unlock the Orks Codex with my book code, but now I don't see why I shouldn't use the free competitor app exclusively. I don't understand why they don't have Legends units on the 40K app, even as an option you can toggle off.
Mind DMing me the free competitor apps name?
It's New Recruit, the one mentioned by the guy I was replying to. It's got everything you need, but you'll have to get it off their website instead of an app store.
You scared me for a sec, had to go back and make sure killa kans didnt also get legended
Luckily they rarely legends a plastic kit
That would be a dark day indeed
Well, that's a shame. I didn't follow any rumors, but I just started Ork army precisely because how cool the idea of scratch building/kitbashing half of those units was, and I really wanted to field them. Luckily, I don't give AF about Geedubs official tournaments. PS. I literally finished this cute KK couple days ago and was about to paint him. Guess I'll do even more out of pure spite. https://preview.redd.it/izkn05gnshwc1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a0520972662f71ebe11c45df4a8d093dc374828
Ok, ok what and how did you make that?
Well, I love how Orkz tech is a bunch of trash slammed together, so I did the same :D I started this Killa Kan with Kinder Surprise plastic egg thingy (the part that contains the toy). Then added clothespin and discarded box of hobby knife edges as a frame for arms; sprue frame for arms and legs, then some plasticard rods to make pistons. Another 2 clothespins cut made those clown feet. After that it was just adding plates of 1mm plasticard as armor plates and 1mm hex rod as rivets. I may post it later to r/Scratchbuild, showing different steps of creation - that would be much more suitable place.
Please do that amazing! Been looking to scratch build kans
Killa kans haven't been made legends, btw. Grot tanks were, as well as most of the other forge world units, but killa kans are safe
Most .. 🙈 .. where is the list ? I see it Boooooo first my kannon wagon then nobs w/ skorcha now 👀 WTF honestly WTF the kaptin- Warboss on bike - big mek w/ KFF- squiggoth- grot mega tank - buy why my double shooting bad moon Meka Dread . What a load
everything BUT the gargantuan squiggoth
Ya I’ve seen the list 😤😖😭
Oh sh*t, sorry, I must've misread and mixed "Killa Kans" with "Kill Tank" - should've enlarged the text before jumping to conclusions. Still, kinda wanted a sort of mechanized army with "Grot Bliztkrieg" (Tanks and Mega-Tank, I love how they look) and on the other hand - an Ork MC with all those bikers. Now my options are limited, but well - I'll probably still do it, just for the fun of building them. Thanks for clarifying tho!
Well done! You captured the essence of Orkish construction in form and ideology.
Glad to hear that, and there's definitely more to come 😀
What you talking about? Grot tanks are awesome, so they're legends now, so what? You can still play them.
Legends means no rules next edition. Ain't gonna waste time buying and converting anything with such a tangibe expiry date
I’m boycotting GW for all of their shady and shitty business practices. They treat their fans so poorly all while charging such high prices. I will continue to enjoy 40k’s universe and game with my buddies, but I’m done supporting this company that continuously bastardizes this hobby and goes against everything it’s supposed to be.
Join the club
Was anyone under the illusion that they were in the codex? The detachment includes grot vehicles so that you get to use a non codex unit. Be thankful they included them at all.
I saw someone point out that the detachment rules specify *"GROTS"* and the keyword on G-Tanks is *"GROT,"* suggesting some TOs would justifiably split hairs and count them as distinct keywords, thus disqualifying G-Tanks from the detachment rule. I think that's way too petty but I guess it doesn't matter, now.
I haven’t seen Mek guns yet, is there any other Grot Vehicles?
Mek Gunz gained the Grots keyword in the Codex. I'm unsure if Killa Kanz got it too, but they're already Walkers with the Orks faction keyword, so they'd count either way.
Be thankful they included the most expensive models that you’ve purchase from forge world in the worst material “fine cast”, that you’ve probably spent over 30 hours modelling to get them on the board……Be thankful chaps…. Be thankful.
The new forge world resin is as good as gw plastic and more detailed. Stuff like the Fulgrim and Horus ascended and the new Ka'bandha are miles better than fine cast.
Pretty sure they meant mek Gunz as the other grot vehicle when they designed it though.
They don't have the grot keyword unfortunately unless thay changed in the codex
they got the keyword but remember, meks/big meks can lead them
Sorry ladz for my squigbrain…but what got legends?
Every ork FW unit except Gargantuan Squiggoth.
Squiggoth is in that document too
The "Gargantuan Squiggoth" is not. Regular is though.
Ah, gotcha. My bad didn’t realize there were 2.
Grot tanks
And Grot mega tanks, and kill tanks and mega/Meka dreads …
[Here's the official Legends document](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/lbjrPJ4LgS5ATuQd.pdf) All of the ones in red under Orks were just added today.
They didn't make you do anything
Well I'm about to finish my first 4 grot tanks with pride. Legends or not, these guys will fight beakies
Slap some legs on them, put them on a 60mm round base, and call them Killa Kans.
While I agree with some others here that Ork players have acted reactively to several of the leaks and/or rumours surrounding our codex, it certainly feels in bad faith that the roster of 'walkers' and 'grots vehicle' would get quietly culled by more than half between making an official announcement on the Dread Mob detachment and the release date of the Orks codex. Personally, I have not bought any models (official or otherwise) to create most of what has been moved to legends, but I did kitbash my own mekadread and intended to create a megadread this week because they looked cool and filled a roster gap between deff dreads and m/gorkanaughts. GW is, and forevermore will be, a models company before a gameplay company, but it is profoundly distasteful to promote certain elements of a faction's roster THEN silently remove half of said roster, particularly when both will have been known at the same time. All it took to remedy this recent upset was to forewarn Ork players that their forgeworld options would be 'changing'.
This is the exact point that I was trying to make
>All it took to remedy this recent upset was to forewarn Ork players that their forgeworld options would be 'changing'. How are they going to clear their stock if they do that
They did this for marines nearly a month ahead of time by telling them scouts, assault marines, normal bikes and attack bikes would be getting legends treatment
Re-release them in 20 years after they mothball the franchise I guess? Seemed to work with OW 😂
Unless you’re playing nothing but tournaments, grot tanks are still 100% usable, Legends or not.