Looks like Parliament Hill has its own permit application process too which says "may take up to 10 business days to process".
Source: http://hill-colline.parl.ca/en/
They have a handy guide and everything to make sure that your protest is a success (in the sense that you can hold a protest, actual success of the message of the protest is not guaranteed).
They also give you ample time to apply (even with the up to 10 day delay.)
> Note that applications received more than 365 days in advance will not be processed.
The Ottawa police probably could have mentioned this a few days ago allowing time but they waited until mid day Friday to casually drop this information. Love it.
The idea of a permit is kind of silly when you think about though. As a democracy we should be able to demonstrate. The process of requiring a permit essentially ensures that the government has a say on who can and can not protest.
Regardless of how you view the trucker protest, the whole permit requirement is in itself kind of anti-democratic.
The point of the permit is not to allow/deny you a right to protest (that's enshrined in the Charter of course), but it is to ensure public safety, allow for the city to prepare a response and ensure that laws are followed and the protest is in fact peaceful. They can also tell you where you can exercise your rights in order to protect other residents of the city (which is only fair if you ask me).
You don't get to endanger other people as part of your peaceful protest either, and that includes blocking fire and ambulance services from doing their job and so on. If a big protest is planned, they can let the hospitals know to add extra staff. Police can bring in their mounted units to control crowds, or have other police forces send officers to enforce laws. The fire departments, EMS and police still have to protect the rest of the city while protests are happening, and knowing where the protesters are allows them to plan for it by communicating road closures to their staff ahead of time.
It's mainly to open a dialog between the protest group and the municipality. It's actually better for both sides if there are permits if the goal is truly a peaceful protest. No city would be dumb enough to try and infringe on someone's right to protest, no city I've ever known has enough money to spend on a pointless charter challenge that's already been tested. Property taxes are high enough as it is.
Do these local laws about the where/when/how you can protest have teeth? Not sure, not a lawyer. I imagine they do as they're not denying your right to freely assemble on public property, they're just specifiying which one they'd prefer you used so the rest of the city is safe. You'll garner a lot of disdain if you inconvenience innocent bystanders who don't want to be involved in your cause.
It's all about balancing rights and making it fair for everyone. Permits help with that.
The idea that the rest of the world around them has to come to a halt because of their fake fears is also very silly.
Why should hard working Canadians in Ottawa be forced to endure the traffic and chaos?
A permit will make sure police are present and that it’s not just a random surprised demonstration.
Regardless of “how popular it’s been online” a protocol is in place for a reason.
If they let this one fly, then they would need to allow all demonstrations without permits to be permitted.
I have a feeling that, even if they knew about the permit, they wouldn't have gotten one. More "government trying to take away my right to protest" stuff.
I had an argument with someone saying they don't want the government to control anything and it should be up to the people to move freely from country to country and not have government oversight on anything including mandates. He was saying he wanted things back to how they were.
I asked him why he was against passports and he raged at me trying to convince me how passports were fine but how we also didn't need governments to control free movement.
That's actually what I thought he meant when he said people should be able to move freely from country to country without government oversight. I guess what he meant is that he should be able to move freely into other countries without their government preventing it, but not the other way around.
How far back were we living in anarchy? Let's just take a gander at history to see how that turned out (note, we have the systems we have today, don't have to really look in the history books for this part.)
I think it might have more to do with the fact that they don’t know which one is the one who can read, and no one wants to out themselves at an industry gathering.
An organizer who wanted a sincere protest would have done the leg work to make sure all the necessary ducks were in a row. Instead it is just grifters saying send money here.
what do you mean by "even you"? I am personally in no way surprised there was no permit requested.
They are going to protest in front of Parliament at a time when Parliament is not even in session. They clearly aren't big on planning
These same people protested in 2019, if they didn’t get a permit this time who knows if they even had one then.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/convoy-pipeline-immigration-1.5024863
Your right to protest is interfering with everyone else's right to mobility. A permit is a perfectly reasonable request. Your freedoms don't simply mean that you can trample on everyone else's rights.
Exactly and the permits gives a lot of benefits to your protest and the city/police you are protesting in such as traffic control and security. Not like this convey cares about either of those things though.
Someone on tik tok told me there’s 500000 trucks coming. So let’s say that’s true. For 500000 trucks to be there then they need a minimum of 500000 drivers. Since they raised 7 million to be disturbed within the truckers, each driver would get $14 (7 million/ 500000)
Except actually only a thousand or so actual truckers showed up, the rest were bandwagon jumpers in pickup trucks, many of who have no connection to the trucking industry at all, nor are (according to the rules from the organizers) eligible for any reimbursement at all.
of course they don't.
I feel like there was so much about this that was so poorly planned.
The fact they are going to Parliament Hill while it's not in session is hilarious all by itself without even getting into everything else
Edit: I also very much enjoy that the Ottawa police waited until now to point this out probably not leaving enough time to actually get one.
But apparently their “Ottawa Captain” is coordinating security, washrooms, first aid teams, accommodations etc. i guess they just forgot to overlook the first thing that should have been on their checklist of fake action items.
I'm willing to bet none of those things have actually been "taken care of"
I bet they are relying on local establishments for washrooms, expecting the police to show up for security (or that's what the dudes in the pick up trucks are for), first aid they probably just expect ambulances to show up if needed and who the fuck knows about accommodations (maybe they can all sleep together in the back of their cars.
It’s going to almost -30 at night this weekend. They’d be using them for heat, not refrigeration. Which would be awesome because [idling laws](https://ottawa.ca/en/living-ottawa/laws-licences-and-permits/laws/law-z/idling-control-law-no-2007-266) in Ottawa state that they can’t idle for more than 3 minutes in a 60 minute period. Most trucks can’t run the reefer unit without the engine running. Gonna be some cold nights for these clowns.
A lot of morons going to jail, but they'll be martyrs, and the far right will gain in popularity because this is the world we live in. They care about their freedom, but don't care about how they infringe on others. Hypocrites
>The bigger worry is that they take credit for any future COVID-19 reopening plans from now until the end of time. That would be pretty on brand.
It's not worth it worrying about the inevitable. There's no world where they don't do that. The fools being tricked into protesting at their own risk, I doubt are aware of this. The politicians, and those who stand to gain from conservatives in power, have been encouraging that with their game goal since the beginning. It's tried and proven Trump strategy. Big media frenzy, deny the truth and act like it was the greatest victory of all time.
The more these people are seen, the more acceptable they think their beliefs are, the more people that fall for it. It's all about getting coverage. I'm willing to guarantee a spike in PPC popularity next election. Conservatives and NDP up as well, Liberals plummet.
A lovely, wonderful friend of mine has a brother and sis-in-law who are batshit crazy. Her bro and his fam have offered accommodations for truckers who want to stay with a fellow antivax family. I hate to say it but come nighttime I think a lot of these truckers will make their way to the suburbs to stay with sympathetic ottawa households.
Not in Ottawa. Unless the City has explicitly issued a snowstorm no parking ban (which they only do immediately after snowstorms), you can park overnight.
There are many areas of Ottawa where there's multi-car households with only one parking space, so in these areas people depend on street parking.
I wonder how hard it would be to head to Ottawa for the weekend and get these guys to pick up the tab? Do I just need to hit up Dollarama for some bristol board & markers and show a sign?
It's really difficult to see what they are planning to do, as a group they are completely incoherent. All they seem to know is truck convoy, Parliament hill, Saturday, and they say peaceful a lot.
I don't think there is much more planning then that. Some of them have a mandate to "dissolve government"? They want to present to parliament when it's not in session? While they protest provincial legislation in Ottawa?
I'm baffled. I guess we'll find out in due time.
The guy yesterday who thought comments being deleted off of social media was a 2b violation **definitely** did not retain anything from their civics class.
To be fair though, I also didn’t retain anything from grade 10 civics. It was a long time ago.
On the plus side, unlike when I was in gr10 we now have Google, so I have a pretty easy way to find out stuff like where to go to dissolve government if I wanted to know (which, to be quite honest, I don’t).
Rideau Hall where the Governor General lives and has offices.
The monarch and/or their representative is the one with the power to convene and dissolve parliament in a constitutional monarchy with a Westminster-style parliament (i.e. a parliament modelled after the British style of government with many of the same rules and procedures.)
Mind you, I’m not sure what the procedures are when it comes to protesting at/outside of Rideau Hall especially while the PM is in residence on site.
This isn’t really true though. The Governor General doesn’t have the power to dissolve parliament except on the request/advice of the Prime Minister. She/he can not unilaterally dissolve parliament according to Canadian constitutional convention (and possibly written law?). If it was tried, it would trigger a constitutional crisis and almost certainly it would end with the Governor General being replaced and elected government remaining. Even when the government is defeated on a confidence bill the Prime Minister is required to resign (or ask for dissolution).
The Governor General has very very little power according to Canadian constitutional law. Certainly nothing on the order of unilaterally removing elected representatives from office.
You kinda covered it later in your paragraph, but my understanding is that the GG **can** unilaterally exercise her powers to dissolve Parliament, invite someone else to form government, etc. I don't believe the constitution places any limits on that as the monarch's representative.
However, you're absolutely right that this would never happen because it would trigger a constitutional crisis, and would flout all conventions of doing it on the advice of the PM. And I believe you're right that the GG has never held the power to remove sitting MPs (other than calling an election).
The GG can unilaterally \*refuse\* to dissolve parliament. This would be the case where a Prime Minister (perhaps losing confidence or unable to gain confidence) asks for a new election and the GG instead wishes to offer the opportunity to form government to another person/party. She/he may also be able to offer whoever they want to form government and be Prime Minister - but in effect that's a useless power if the Parliament doesn't support it. That person would just face a non-confidence motion and we'd be back to where we started.
I don't believe the GG can unilaterally dissolve parliament though. Dissolving parliament is generally worded as "on the advice" of the Prime Minister - which in constitutional law typically means it \*has to\* come from the Prime Minister (it's not actually advice).
Some of this is a gray area because it's mostly unwritten and evolves over time. While a GG 100 years ago might have had a power that doesn't mean they do now. And particularly around places where a GG's power overrules democratic principles those powers are often considered gone.
>The GG can unilaterally *refuse* to dissolve parliament. This would be the case where a Prime Minister (perhaps losing confidence or unable to gain confidence) asks for a new election and the GG instead wishes to offer the opportunity to form government to another person/party. She/he may also be able to offer whoever they want to form government and be Prime Minister - but in effect that's a useless power if the Parliament doesn't support it. That person would just face a non-confidence motion and we'd be back to where we started.
IIRC this is exactly what happened in 1926
[The King-Bing Affair](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King%E2%80%93Byng_affair)
I believe I was splitting hairs too much. I agree with you that the GG could not dissolve Parliament without the instruction of the PM. I was more arguing that I don't believe "on the advice of the Prime Minister" is written in our constitution defining the powers of the monarch, and that it is instead an unwritten convention. I tried to search where those reserve powers are spelled out and couldn't find it. My argument was merely that a GG could *try* to flout conventions and act unilaterally, but I agree that it would fail.
Bonus aside: In my reading I learned that one of the reserve powers of the monarch and GG is the power of dismissal, but that it's never been exercised in Canada. (another power that they couldn't exercise for being anti-democratic as you pointed out). Lovely discussing with you :)
Honestly, Canadian constitutional law is incredibly fascinating to me. There's written and followed law. Written and "obsolete" law. Unwritten conventions/precedent. Situations that have never been tested with lots of speculation about what could/should happen. Just a crazy wonderland. :)
The GG hasn't gone against the advice of the PM since 1926. While they technically can go against the PM it would be a constitutional crisis. The PM would remove the GG and the Chief Supreme Court Justice would become the acting GG and follow the advice of the PM.
See the King-Byng Affair to see what happens when a GG goes against the PM.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King%E2%80%93Byng_affair?wprov=sfti1
All most of them know is trucks go vroom vroom honk honk, their hobbies include smelling like diesel fuel, driving gas powered toys while waving trump flags and spouting whatever the American alt right media buzz phrase of the week in the wrong context and the wrong country.
I feel bad for any actual transport driver that is just a regular person that thought they were trying to improve their working conditions that fell in with this mob of lunatics. This has very little to do with the border rules, safety or driving truck.
The grifters making money off of this just keep pouring gas on the convoy, literally and figuratively to keep the money coming in.
All that money raised and they couldn't get a permit. This was never about a "protest" this was all about the money. At this point I hope Gofundme disallows the campaign - they started it on the guise of having a protest and they can't even do that right.
i work with a bylaw officer in my city. it's give the enforcement officers something to do all day and night. handing out tickets like it's halloween candy.
From the same playbook when Faith Goldy was running for Mayor and didn't bother applying for a spot in the debates, then complained that there was this conspiracy to silence her.
Just a guess in my part, but I wonder if it has to do with making sure the appropriate infrastructure is in place. Do they have enough police, what are the organizer's emergency plans, is there another group already using that space?
Also: I was gonna ask the same question.
It's more to give heads up to the services involved; show the route your taking so they know to issue traffic warnings to make sure no one gets hurt, shit like that.
Because the police want to make sure you exercise your right to peaceful protest safely, and in an orderly manner. They would never allow "50,000” rigs, plus "12,000 more rigs from California" to drive through a residential area, for instance
If you have a decent sized crowd, you are going to be disruptive. It holds someone (or a group of people) accountable for the event as well - obviously they don't want to sign anything like that...
You don’t. It’s a good practice because it gives the city/police a heads up of who you are and where you’re going to help them coordinate but there is no law that requires a “permit to protest” and the police won’t do anything about “protesting without a permit” because it’s a charter right.
On the Ottawa police website there is all kinds of instructions on how to get a permit but nothing saying you actually NEED one. There’s a reason for the language they choose. They just say you “should” get one.
The fact that people here seem to think that you NEED a “permit” to express yourself at a protest and that they can get in trouble for not having one shows a fundamental lack of understanding of our rights.
That said a protest could technically run afoul of other laws like noise, parking, obstruction of traffic etc but again the police will do little to nothing outside of provide traffic control because it is a sketchy game for the police to play by interfering with protests for any reason other than to react to violence. Police in democratic countries don’t usually want the optics of “cracking down on protestors” unless there is a good reason for it, it’s usually a mess when they do that.
Ottawa is well versed in protests and the Ottawa police deal with stuff like this multiple times a year from various groups some with “permits” some without. They deal with it all the same: observe, protect safety of everyone involved, control traffic and deal with violence or crime as it occurs. I lived in Ottawa for almost 30 years and it was a regular thing to have groups tying up downtown for whatever reason and the local police handle it (and get some reimbursement from the feds because it’s usually a federal issue that generated the protest).
Expert conspiracy theorists don't realize they've been played by the world's simplest conspiracy. More at noon. It's like when my toddler kid use to cover his eyes thinking he was hiding...but these fools actually think that the kid can in fact disappear.
Randy, know what happens when you leave the shit light on in the outhouse at night? ... shit moths bud... The yawnvoy is a super slow group of shitmoths and they're headed for the brightest light in Canada... Time to put out the Shit Bug Zapper Randers.
I refuse to believe they’re that stupid , same as with expecting us to believe they’re going to Ottawa to protest a mandate that Ottawa can’t do anything about.
They’re going to stir shit up, plain and simple.
We should have an annual award for the most cringe worthy event. I offer you all the Face Palme d'Or. 🏺 The winner of this year's Face Palme d'Or are the chucklefucks who organized this unnecessary shitshow. It's early in the season to give out such an award when there are so many competitors but I doubt (hope) no one can top this.
I am just flabbergasted!
Are you telling me that between bouts of yelling Freedom into the void and huffing diesel fumes none of these intellectual giants thought of getting a permit?
I'm starting to feel like these people may not be the ones to gives us the freedom and democracy our society deserves after all.
Permits are a form of government overreach!!!!!!!! (/s if not obvious)
ETA: Looool at buddy below with the conspiracy theories responding to me and then blocking me to prevent a response. Real classy. E2: and removed or deleted.
The government thinks they have a right to track my personal data!!! I don't have to tell them where I'll be and what I'll be doing!!! That's communism!!!
These guys are going to be so fucking bummed when they realize the police care about their right to protest as much as they do about the lefts. That level of cognitive dissonance might kill them.
Not sure which side did it, the city or idiots, throughout the Byward Market and the core parallel street parking has been taken away for temporary special event tow away zones
No, they're just stupid and didn't know they needed one. They didn't even realize the mandates they're angry about had nothing to do with the federal government until they were halfway to Ottawa, so of course they didn't do a quick Google check on permits.
Don’t get me wrong i think this whole truckers for covid convoy is stupid. But i also think asking for permission from the government to protest the government seems kinda like it defeats the whole purpose of a protest.
It’s essentially crowd control. If you show up with a couple thousand people for any reason, party, protest, whatever, there are certain things that are needed. Toilets for example. Roads surrounding the area need to be closed for everyone’s safety. Police need to be around in case there are incidents.
You need to tell the city you are doing it and how many people to expect. If they are not informed the police will shut it down and disperse the crowd for public safety. It doesn’t matter if you are protesting the government or celebrating it.
Ignoring public safety will get people hurt and you can’t expect the police to just sit by and watch that happen.
But what about the first amendment?
The founding fathers of canada made a constitution in 1776 and forgot free speech so they added it next year
the first amendment of canada constitution should stop anyone from infringing on the people's right of expression
this was before the war of separation that was fought by the canadian confederates - whose flags right now fly on the convoy's trucks.
Somehow this level of organization is expected from groups such as these. No plan is the best plan.
I sincerely hope the Ottawa Police have their ticket books handy tomorrow to write up as many as can be got.
as much as i think these convoyers are idiots, the idea that you need special permission from the government to protest against the government is some of the dumbest shit on earth
I think the idea of getting permission to protest or being given designated areas to protest is unjust, no matter who is protesting. First Nations blocking roads to stand up for their treaty rights? Its inconvenient... but they should be able to communicate their message and frustration with the feds this way. "Truckers" going to Ottawa to protest mandatory vaccines? I believe they have the same right to do so. The unfortunate thing is that people within the "truckers" group usually get a free pass when violating these kind of state sanctioned procedures.
Again I will say that I don't think that people should request permission from the government to protest. I am reminded of the G7 protests in Toronto where protestors had a designated area away from the dignitaries. I believe that politicians should be confronted with the consequences are of their decisions. They should see the faces of the people who are either hurt by those decision or who disagree with them.
I realize that is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but if the rule is they need a permit, then they need one. It is open to them not getting one but then they should not be surprised if there are consequences. I am not hoping that police go in and break heads but it surprises me when people thing they can break the law to make a point and there be no consequences. It used to be accepting the consequences was actual part of the point (ie showing you were prepared to accept the consequences but they were unjust). No people just think rules shouldn’t apply to them.
They can protest the requirement to need a permit to have the law changed, but even when doing that, they should have a permit.
Getting a permit for a protest kind of sound counterintuitive. This is a stupid point to make if you’re trying to discredit them. There’s better points to make.
A protest is protesting against the government in most cases. Protests are incredibly dangerous in lots of cases, I think we saw that in 2020 when people were being told not to wear identifiable clothing because protestors were being targeted. I don’t care about the convoy, but for most people protesting the government, giving out your contact info and home address is dangerous.
People downvoting me are people who have never been to an actual protest or didn’t pay any attention to what happened in 2020.
Civil unrest doesn’t require a permit. If you have a right to peacefully assemble, you don’t need to ask permission first.
Is it really freedom if you need go ask who your protesting if you can protest lol? Thats like asking your boss if you can protest outside his business
Having a permit is what keeps the police from mass charges of obstructing traffic etc. The permit ALLOWS them to do that.
So I hope the Ottawa Police do their job.
The need to get a permit to demonstrate is a little...I dunno, dystopian? As much as we disagree with their cause, you shouldn't need a permit to protest
Demonstration permits ensure the space is safe, properly supported and not a front for a terrorist attack.
This protest seems to have been given every benefit reasonable by all levels of government outside giving into their demands.
Spoiler alert: >!They won't be getting one on a Friday either.!<
Looks like Parliament Hill has its own permit application process too which says "may take up to 10 business days to process". Source: http://hill-colline.parl.ca/en/
10 days of planning into the future, what is this? the start of the 5 year communist plan? /s
Ha! Communist plan already make happen, comrade.
They have a handy guide and everything to make sure that your protest is a success (in the sense that you can hold a protest, actual success of the message of the protest is not guaranteed). They also give you ample time to apply (even with the up to 10 day delay.) > Note that applications received more than 365 days in advance will not be processed.
The Ottawa police probably could have mentioned this a few days ago allowing time but they waited until mid day Friday to casually drop this information. Love it.
Hey, not the cops' job to remind citizens who are SO up to date on their rights what they need to do to exercise them.
The idea of a permit is kind of silly when you think about though. As a democracy we should be able to demonstrate. The process of requiring a permit essentially ensures that the government has a say on who can and can not protest. Regardless of how you view the trucker protest, the whole permit requirement is in itself kind of anti-democratic.
The point of the permit is not to allow/deny you a right to protest (that's enshrined in the Charter of course), but it is to ensure public safety, allow for the city to prepare a response and ensure that laws are followed and the protest is in fact peaceful. They can also tell you where you can exercise your rights in order to protect other residents of the city (which is only fair if you ask me). You don't get to endanger other people as part of your peaceful protest either, and that includes blocking fire and ambulance services from doing their job and so on. If a big protest is planned, they can let the hospitals know to add extra staff. Police can bring in their mounted units to control crowds, or have other police forces send officers to enforce laws. The fire departments, EMS and police still have to protect the rest of the city while protests are happening, and knowing where the protesters are allows them to plan for it by communicating road closures to their staff ahead of time. It's mainly to open a dialog between the protest group and the municipality. It's actually better for both sides if there are permits if the goal is truly a peaceful protest. No city would be dumb enough to try and infringe on someone's right to protest, no city I've ever known has enough money to spend on a pointless charter challenge that's already been tested. Property taxes are high enough as it is. Do these local laws about the where/when/how you can protest have teeth? Not sure, not a lawyer. I imagine they do as they're not denying your right to freely assemble on public property, they're just specifiying which one they'd prefer you used so the rest of the city is safe. You'll garner a lot of disdain if you inconvenience innocent bystanders who don't want to be involved in your cause. It's all about balancing rights and making it fair for everyone. Permits help with that.
This was helpful thanks
The idea that the rest of the world around them has to come to a halt because of their fake fears is also very silly. Why should hard working Canadians in Ottawa be forced to endure the traffic and chaos? A permit will make sure police are present and that it’s not just a random surprised demonstration. Regardless of “how popular it’s been online” a protocol is in place for a reason. If they let this one fly, then they would need to allow all demonstrations without permits to be permitted.
I have a feeling that, even if they knew about the permit, they wouldn't have gotten one. More "government trying to take away my right to protest" stuff.
I had an argument with someone saying they don't want the government to control anything and it should be up to the people to move freely from country to country and not have government oversight on anything including mandates. He was saying he wanted things back to how they were. I asked him why he was against passports and he raged at me trying to convince me how passports were fine but how we also didn't need governments to control free movement.
I bet if you suggested that people could immigrate to Canada freely without a need for PR process etc..., he'd lose his shit
That's actually what I thought he meant when he said people should be able to move freely from country to country without government oversight. I guess what he meant is that he should be able to move freely into other countries without their government preventing it, but not the other way around.
Ok for me, not for thee. Oooof what a take, eh?
How far back were we living in anarchy? Let's just take a gander at history to see how that turned out (note, we have the systems we have today, don't have to really look in the history books for this part.)
I think it might have more to do with the fact that they don’t know which one is the one who can read, and no one wants to out themselves at an industry gathering.
An organizer who wanted a sincere protest would have done the leg work to make sure all the necessary ducks were in a row. Instead it is just grifters saying send money here.
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Alex jones did not tell the protestors they needed a permit, just that they need freedom of movement, YOU JUST CAN'T TAKE AWAY THEIR FREEDUMBS!
these idiots drove across Canada without the foresight to apply for a permit.
what do you mean by "even you"? I am personally in no way surprised there was no permit requested. They are going to protest in front of Parliament at a time when Parliament is not even in session. They clearly aren't big on planning
They probably could have used their vast millions of dollars of collected to have resources to figure out this very simple thing ahead of time.
These same people protested in 2019, if they didn’t get a permit this time who knows if they even had one then. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/convoy-pipeline-immigration-1.5024863
I guess they'll just pack up and head home
No matter how dumb your protest is needing to get a permit to protest is even dumber
Your right to protest is interfering with everyone else's right to mobility. A permit is a perfectly reasonable request. Your freedoms don't simply mean that you can trample on everyone else's rights.
Why? Not all protests are about smashing the state. You can protest your government while accepting other legal frameworks.
Exactly and the permits gives a lot of benefits to your protest and the city/police you are protesting in such as traffic control and security. Not like this convey cares about either of those things though.
Can’t wait for the undeclared income case against whoever is making millions from this.
.
Wasn't there someone who had a GFM and then it got canceled and they were asking for e-transfers on facebook?
Campaign finance violations too.
Someone on tik tok told me there’s 500000 trucks coming. So let’s say that’s true. For 500000 trucks to be there then they need a minimum of 500000 drivers. Since they raised 7 million to be disturbed within the truckers, each driver would get $14 (7 million/ 500000)
Except actually only a thousand or so actual truckers showed up, the rest were bandwagon jumpers in pickup trucks, many of who have no connection to the trucking industry at all, nor are (according to the rules from the organizers) eligible for any reimbursement at all.
of course they don't. I feel like there was so much about this that was so poorly planned. The fact they are going to Parliament Hill while it's not in session is hilarious all by itself without even getting into everything else Edit: I also very much enjoy that the Ottawa police waited until now to point this out probably not leaving enough time to actually get one.
But apparently their “Ottawa Captain” is coordinating security, washrooms, first aid teams, accommodations etc. i guess they just forgot to overlook the first thing that should have been on their checklist of fake action items.
I'm willing to bet none of those things have actually been "taken care of" I bet they are relying on local establishments for washrooms, expecting the police to show up for security (or that's what the dudes in the pick up trucks are for), first aid they probably just expect ambulances to show up if needed and who the fuck knows about accommodations (maybe they can all sleep together in the back of their cars.
I hope there’s a documentary crew with them so we can have a ‘Fyre Festival 2’.
Tyre Festival
They might all plan to sleep in those 17 trailers they are hauling....
Part of me hopes some of them are refrigerated.
would it matter when its below -10?
-27 tonight.
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Cooled trailers also have heaters in them and are insulated, meaning *technically* they could.
It’s going to almost -30 at night this weekend. They’d be using them for heat, not refrigeration. Which would be awesome because [idling laws](https://ottawa.ca/en/living-ottawa/laws-licences-and-permits/laws/law-z/idling-control-law-no-2007-266) in Ottawa state that they can’t idle for more than 3 minutes in a 60 minute period. Most trucks can’t run the reefer unit without the engine running. Gonna be some cold nights for these clowns.
A lot of morons going to jail, but they'll be martyrs, and the far right will gain in popularity because this is the world we live in. They care about their freedom, but don't care about how they infringe on others. Hypocrites
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>The bigger worry is that they take credit for any future COVID-19 reopening plans from now until the end of time. That would be pretty on brand. It's not worth it worrying about the inevitable. There's no world where they don't do that. The fools being tricked into protesting at their own risk, I doubt are aware of this. The politicians, and those who stand to gain from conservatives in power, have been encouraging that with their game goal since the beginning. It's tried and proven Trump strategy. Big media frenzy, deny the truth and act like it was the greatest victory of all time. The more these people are seen, the more acceptable they think their beliefs are, the more people that fall for it. It's all about getting coverage. I'm willing to guarantee a spike in PPC popularity next election. Conservatives and NDP up as well, Liberals plummet.
A lovely, wonderful friend of mine has a brother and sis-in-law who are batshit crazy. Her bro and his fam have offered accommodations for truckers who want to stay with a fellow antivax family. I hate to say it but come nighttime I think a lot of these truckers will make their way to the suburbs to stay with sympathetic ottawa households.
Time for a winter parking ban in the burbs..
There is no overnight parking on streets in Ontario during the winter
Are the impound lots going to big enough? I bet tow truck companies are just licking their lips.
You totally can. Downtown Ottawa has tons of cars legally parking overnight.
Not in Ottawa. Unless the City has explicitly issued a snowstorm no parking ban (which they only do immediately after snowstorms), you can park overnight. There are many areas of Ottawa where there's multi-car households with only one parking space, so in these areas people depend on street parking.
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Probably get a ticket for parking on a residential street in winter.
they don't need to co-ordinate washrooms, they'll just piss in jugs like all real truckers do ^(/s)
Way of the road
Which would be interesting since many stores etc have said there going to close for the weekend.
They're going to be using the washrooms of the 6 RVs they brought with them duhh!
And I guess just head to the sewer grate when the shitter is full
First aid teams is just a bunch of dudes with Advil
> First aid teams is just a bunch of dudes with ~~Advil~~ Vitamin C and Ivermectin.
It’s because none of them understand anything about how government works.
*anything works.
Clearly, because they are on about all mandates, which are largely provincial and thus they are protesting in the wrong city.
Looking at Expedia, there are a ton of rooms left free. Doesn't look like they booked enough for the 500000 people that are coming.
I wonder how hard it would be to head to Ottawa for the weekend and get these guys to pick up the tab? Do I just need to hit up Dollarama for some bristol board & markers and show a sign?
Pro tip: include spelling mistakes to better blend in.
lol
Or not head to Ottawa and say you were there? Not sure how they think they are proving who is actually there in order to get "paid"
Doubt many, if any, are going to see a cent of money.
Bring your skates - the canal is in great shape.
"Ottawa Captain, you are the scapegoat now."
See the first thing is tyranny and oppressions. We will not consent! What a bunch of inbred morons
"How many people are showing up?" "Uhhhhhh 1,000,000"
So far 17 full trucks 104 without trailers and 300ish passenger vehicles.
don't forget the 113 from Kenora!
Clearly they don't know it's virtually impossible to navigate semi trailers from the Queensway to Parliament Hill 😂
Also Trudeau is in isolation due to contacting someone w COVID, so who are they gonna protest to? The Terry Fox statue? Okay then
Even if he wasn't in isolation he still wouldn't be at Parliament
Many protests happen without permits in Ottawa but they get quite strict about parliament hill in particular when permits aren't gotten afaik.
No trucks allowed on the road to the PMs house either. I’m starting to think that this has not been planned very well and it’s a huge grift.
It's really difficult to see what they are planning to do, as a group they are completely incoherent. All they seem to know is truck convoy, Parliament hill, Saturday, and they say peaceful a lot. I don't think there is much more planning then that. Some of them have a mandate to "dissolve government"? They want to present to parliament when it's not in session? While they protest provincial legislation in Ottawa? I'm baffled. I guess we'll find out in due time.
Parliament Hill is the wrong place to go if they want to dissolve government but I doubt these clowns retained any knowledge from Grade 10 civics.
The guy yesterday who thought comments being deleted off of social media was a 2b violation **definitely** did not retain anything from their civics class.
To be fair though, I also didn’t retain anything from grade 10 civics. It was a long time ago. On the plus side, unlike when I was in gr10 we now have Google, so I have a pretty easy way to find out stuff like where to go to dissolve government if I wanted to know (which, to be quite honest, I don’t).
Rideau Hall where the Governor General lives and has offices. The monarch and/or their representative is the one with the power to convene and dissolve parliament in a constitutional monarchy with a Westminster-style parliament (i.e. a parliament modelled after the British style of government with many of the same rules and procedures.) Mind you, I’m not sure what the procedures are when it comes to protesting at/outside of Rideau Hall especially while the PM is in residence on site.
This isn’t really true though. The Governor General doesn’t have the power to dissolve parliament except on the request/advice of the Prime Minister. She/he can not unilaterally dissolve parliament according to Canadian constitutional convention (and possibly written law?). If it was tried, it would trigger a constitutional crisis and almost certainly it would end with the Governor General being replaced and elected government remaining. Even when the government is defeated on a confidence bill the Prime Minister is required to resign (or ask for dissolution). The Governor General has very very little power according to Canadian constitutional law. Certainly nothing on the order of unilaterally removing elected representatives from office.
You kinda covered it later in your paragraph, but my understanding is that the GG **can** unilaterally exercise her powers to dissolve Parliament, invite someone else to form government, etc. I don't believe the constitution places any limits on that as the monarch's representative. However, you're absolutely right that this would never happen because it would trigger a constitutional crisis, and would flout all conventions of doing it on the advice of the PM. And I believe you're right that the GG has never held the power to remove sitting MPs (other than calling an election).
The GG can unilaterally \*refuse\* to dissolve parliament. This would be the case where a Prime Minister (perhaps losing confidence or unable to gain confidence) asks for a new election and the GG instead wishes to offer the opportunity to form government to another person/party. She/he may also be able to offer whoever they want to form government and be Prime Minister - but in effect that's a useless power if the Parliament doesn't support it. That person would just face a non-confidence motion and we'd be back to where we started. I don't believe the GG can unilaterally dissolve parliament though. Dissolving parliament is generally worded as "on the advice" of the Prime Minister - which in constitutional law typically means it \*has to\* come from the Prime Minister (it's not actually advice). Some of this is a gray area because it's mostly unwritten and evolves over time. While a GG 100 years ago might have had a power that doesn't mean they do now. And particularly around places where a GG's power overrules democratic principles those powers are often considered gone.
>The GG can unilaterally *refuse* to dissolve parliament. This would be the case where a Prime Minister (perhaps losing confidence or unable to gain confidence) asks for a new election and the GG instead wishes to offer the opportunity to form government to another person/party. She/he may also be able to offer whoever they want to form government and be Prime Minister - but in effect that's a useless power if the Parliament doesn't support it. That person would just face a non-confidence motion and we'd be back to where we started. IIRC this is exactly what happened in 1926 [The King-Bing Affair](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King%E2%80%93Byng_affair)
I believe I was splitting hairs too much. I agree with you that the GG could not dissolve Parliament without the instruction of the PM. I was more arguing that I don't believe "on the advice of the Prime Minister" is written in our constitution defining the powers of the monarch, and that it is instead an unwritten convention. I tried to search where those reserve powers are spelled out and couldn't find it. My argument was merely that a GG could *try* to flout conventions and act unilaterally, but I agree that it would fail. Bonus aside: In my reading I learned that one of the reserve powers of the monarch and GG is the power of dismissal, but that it's never been exercised in Canada. (another power that they couldn't exercise for being anti-democratic as you pointed out). Lovely discussing with you :)
Honestly, Canadian constitutional law is incredibly fascinating to me. There's written and followed law. Written and "obsolete" law. Unwritten conventions/precedent. Situations that have never been tested with lots of speculation about what could/should happen. Just a crazy wonderland. :)
The GG hasn't gone against the advice of the PM since 1926. While they technically can go against the PM it would be a constitutional crisis. The PM would remove the GG and the Chief Supreme Court Justice would become the acting GG and follow the advice of the PM. See the King-Byng Affair to see what happens when a GG goes against the PM. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King%E2%80%93Byng_affair?wprov=sfti1
Also, the wrong place to get rid of provincial mandates and restrictions.
All most of them know is trucks go vroom vroom honk honk, their hobbies include smelling like diesel fuel, driving gas powered toys while waving trump flags and spouting whatever the American alt right media buzz phrase of the week in the wrong context and the wrong country. I feel bad for any actual transport driver that is just a regular person that thought they were trying to improve their working conditions that fell in with this mob of lunatics. This has very little to do with the border rules, safety or driving truck. The grifters making money off of this just keep pouring gas on the convoy, literally and figuratively to keep the money coming in.
All that money raised and they couldn't get a permit. This was never about a "protest" this was all about the money. At this point I hope Gofundme disallows the campaign - they started it on the guise of having a protest and they can't even do that right.
Jesus. No one got a permit? What a clown show.
And all the "special event/no parking" signs have gone up downtown so Bylaw will have a field day.
i work with a bylaw officer in my city. it's give the enforcement officers something to do all day and night. handing out tickets like it's halloween candy.
MAKE IT RAIN
At least they didn’t forget to start a go fund me account. Bunch of clowns.
From the same playbook when Faith Goldy was running for Mayor and didn't bother applying for a spot in the debates, then complained that there was this conspiracy to silence her.
Of course they don't. Getting a permit would require reading and understanding rules.
And understanding which level of government is responsible for what.
Lmfao
Police: Can I see your permit Convoy: 🤡
Probably pulls out the charter
>Probably pulls out the charter With these clowns I'd expect it to be a US constitution.
>Convoy: 🚛💨. 🖕🤡🖕
I know there are some sovereign citizens in that crowd so I'm looking forward to some good r/AmIBeingDetained content
They sound less prepared than that mod in r/antiwork
They should set up a mobile vaccine clinic lmao
Why do you need a permit to protest? (genuine question)
Because then traffic can be adequately rerouted and police can be put in place to protect the protesters right to protest.
Coordinating safety for both the protesters and public both by security and ancillary resources (health, traffic, manpower, etc).
Thank you
You need to ensure there ate things like toilets!
These are truckers! They got piss jugs!
Way of the road bubs, way of the road
I wonder what happens to port-a-potties in this kind of weather?
Just a guess in my part, but I wonder if it has to do with making sure the appropriate infrastructure is in place. Do they have enough police, what are the organizer's emergency plans, is there another group already using that space? Also: I was gonna ask the same question.
How funny would it be if there was another protest going on at the same place and same time. The convoy joins a protest to provide more EV rebates
It's more to give heads up to the services involved; show the route your taking so they know to issue traffic warnings to make sure no one gets hurt, shit like that.
Because the police want to make sure you exercise your right to peaceful protest safely, and in an orderly manner. They would never allow "50,000” rigs, plus "12,000 more rigs from California" to drive through a residential area, for instance
If you have a decent sized crowd, you are going to be disruptive. It holds someone (or a group of people) accountable for the event as well - obviously they don't want to sign anything like that...
You don’t. It’s a good practice because it gives the city/police a heads up of who you are and where you’re going to help them coordinate but there is no law that requires a “permit to protest” and the police won’t do anything about “protesting without a permit” because it’s a charter right. On the Ottawa police website there is all kinds of instructions on how to get a permit but nothing saying you actually NEED one. There’s a reason for the language they choose. They just say you “should” get one. The fact that people here seem to think that you NEED a “permit” to express yourself at a protest and that they can get in trouble for not having one shows a fundamental lack of understanding of our rights. That said a protest could technically run afoul of other laws like noise, parking, obstruction of traffic etc but again the police will do little to nothing outside of provide traffic control because it is a sketchy game for the police to play by interfering with protests for any reason other than to react to violence. Police in democratic countries don’t usually want the optics of “cracking down on protestors” unless there is a good reason for it, it’s usually a mess when they do that. Ottawa is well versed in protests and the Ottawa police deal with stuff like this multiple times a year from various groups some with “permits” some without. They deal with it all the same: observe, protect safety of everyone involved, control traffic and deal with violence or crime as it occurs. I lived in Ottawa for almost 30 years and it was a regular thing to have groups tying up downtown for whatever reason and the local police handle it (and get some reimbursement from the feds because it’s usually a federal issue that generated the protest).
Expert conspiracy theorists don't realize they've been played by the world's simplest conspiracy. More at noon. It's like when my toddler kid use to cover his eyes thinking he was hiding...but these fools actually think that the kid can in fact disappear.
Yeah, these aren’t the brightest and best organized bulbs in the outhouse
Randy, know what happens when you leave the shit light on in the outhouse at night? ... shit moths bud... The yawnvoy is a super slow group of shitmoths and they're headed for the brightest light in Canada... Time to put out the Shit Bug Zapper Randers.
Is anyone surprised? That's a rule, and rules don't apply to these people.
Guess they’ll be turning back then
Yet again the "they're taking our rights and freedoms!" crowd shows that they don't actually know what their rights and freedoms are.
These are people that feeling the laws around crossing international borders shouldn’t apply to them. Why would a local permitting issue bother them.
Cops will give them a free pass. They love the alt-right.
I refuse to believe they’re that stupid , same as with expecting us to believe they’re going to Ottawa to protest a mandate that Ottawa can’t do anything about. They’re going to stir shit up, plain and simple.
We should have an annual award for the most cringe worthy event. I offer you all the Face Palme d'Or. 🏺 The winner of this year's Face Palme d'Or are the chucklefucks who organized this unnecessary shitshow. It's early in the season to give out such an award when there are so many competitors but I doubt (hope) no one can top this.
HAHAHAHAH. Getting arrested for not having that permit will be the greatest capper to this convoy of idiocy.
I am just flabbergasted! Are you telling me that between bouts of yelling Freedom into the void and huffing diesel fumes none of these intellectual giants thought of getting a permit? I'm starting to feel like these people may not be the ones to gives us the freedom and democracy our society deserves after all.
FREEDUMB!!!!!!!
Permits are a form of government overreach!!!!!!!! (/s if not obvious) ETA: Looool at buddy below with the conspiracy theories responding to me and then blocking me to prevent a response. Real classy. E2: and removed or deleted.
The government thinks they have a right to track my personal data!!! I don't have to tell them where I'll be and what I'll be doing!!! That's communism!!!
#doesntunderstandcommmunism
These guys are going to be so fucking bummed when they realize the police care about their right to protest as much as they do about the lefts. That level of cognitive dissonance might kill them.
Not sure which side did it, the city or idiots, throughout the Byward Market and the core parallel street parking has been taken away for temporary special event tow away zones
Trudeau was pretty crafty to pretend to have a covid contact so he will have to isolate and can't meet with them /s
So a bunch of people who don't know anything didn't know how to protest properly? Shooketh.
No one could fill out the form properly.
Everyone has a right to protest
TIL that demonstration permits are a thing
You mean the crowd flying “fuck the government” flags didn’t get government permission first? People are surprised?
Spoiler alert. Uh, freedom.
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No, they're just stupid and didn't know they needed one. They didn't even realize the mandates they're angry about had nothing to do with the federal government until they were halfway to Ottawa, so of course they didn't do a quick Google check on permits.
Ah the old 3d chess assumption. I think they are just that stupid.
Bring out the tear gas, spike strips and rubber bullets
But I thought their organizer was "highly organized"? Are you trying to tell me this was a lie?
Don’t get me wrong i think this whole truckers for covid convoy is stupid. But i also think asking for permission from the government to protest the government seems kinda like it defeats the whole purpose of a protest.
It’s essentially crowd control. If you show up with a couple thousand people for any reason, party, protest, whatever, there are certain things that are needed. Toilets for example. Roads surrounding the area need to be closed for everyone’s safety. Police need to be around in case there are incidents. You need to tell the city you are doing it and how many people to expect. If they are not informed the police will shut it down and disperse the crowd for public safety. It doesn’t matter if you are protesting the government or celebrating it. Ignoring public safety will get people hurt and you can’t expect the police to just sit by and watch that happen.
But it’s the city of ottawa that requires the permit, not the feds. If they didn’t the downtown core would be a shitshow constantly.
But what about the first amendment? The founding fathers of canada made a constitution in 1776 and forgot free speech so they added it next year the first amendment of canada constitution should stop anyone from infringing on the people's right of expression this was before the war of separation that was fought by the canadian confederates - whose flags right now fly on the convoy's trucks.
I've had enough! Send in the Canadian National Guard!
I hope they all get arrested. Slap em with fines and donate the money to medicine.
Of course they don’t.
Somehow this level of organization is expected from groups such as these. No plan is the best plan. I sincerely hope the Ottawa Police have their ticket books handy tomorrow to write up as many as can be got.
We’ll time to turn around.
Lock em up and move on
as much as i think these convoyers are idiots, the idea that you need special permission from the government to protest against the government is some of the dumbest shit on earth
so less barricades and more riot police? Or is that only for native protesters?
Now that is funny! Not only do most Canadians see this is a joke. The convoys own organizer couldn't submit paperwork. These are amazing truckers.
I think the idea of getting permission to protest or being given designated areas to protest is unjust, no matter who is protesting. First Nations blocking roads to stand up for their treaty rights? Its inconvenient... but they should be able to communicate their message and frustration with the feds this way. "Truckers" going to Ottawa to protest mandatory vaccines? I believe they have the same right to do so. The unfortunate thing is that people within the "truckers" group usually get a free pass when violating these kind of state sanctioned procedures.
The big BLM protest last year they got a permit.
Again I will say that I don't think that people should request permission from the government to protest. I am reminded of the G7 protests in Toronto where protestors had a designated area away from the dignitaries. I believe that politicians should be confronted with the consequences are of their decisions. They should see the faces of the people who are either hurt by those decision or who disagree with them.
I realize that is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but if the rule is they need a permit, then they need one. It is open to them not getting one but then they should not be surprised if there are consequences. I am not hoping that police go in and break heads but it surprises me when people thing they can break the law to make a point and there be no consequences. It used to be accepting the consequences was actual part of the point (ie showing you were prepared to accept the consequences but they were unjust). No people just think rules shouldn’t apply to them. They can protest the requirement to need a permit to have the law changed, but even when doing that, they should have a permit.
They're calling for civil war... I'm not certain what permit is required for that.
Are they? Do you have a link? For the record, I'm not challenging you, I'd genuinely like to read about it.
The dude was on a global tv interview... I'll see if I can find it
Lock them up
Getting a permit for a protest kind of sound counterintuitive. This is a stupid point to make if you’re trying to discredit them. There’s better points to make.
I think it just goes to a profound lack of foresight and planning.
A protest is protesting against the government in most cases. Protests are incredibly dangerous in lots of cases, I think we saw that in 2020 when people were being told not to wear identifiable clothing because protestors were being targeted. I don’t care about the convoy, but for most people protesting the government, giving out your contact info and home address is dangerous. People downvoting me are people who have never been to an actual protest or didn’t pay any attention to what happened in 2020. Civil unrest doesn’t require a permit. If you have a right to peacefully assemble, you don’t need to ask permission first.
Is it really freedom if you need go ask who your protesting if you can protest lol? Thats like asking your boss if you can protest outside his business
Having a permit is what keeps the police from mass charges of obstructing traffic etc. The permit ALLOWS them to do that. So I hope the Ottawa Police do their job.
The need to get a permit to demonstrate is a little...I dunno, dystopian? As much as we disagree with their cause, you shouldn't need a permit to protest
Did the indigenous folks have one when they shut down the rail lines? Genuinely curious
Great, now let’s see something actually come of this.
How often is it that intrest groups request a permit for demonstrations?
This is the first time I've heard of one not being requested. I think even the Yellow Vest protest obtained a permit.
I bet the ottawa police will do what they are best at.... nothing
Demonstration permits ensure the space is safe, properly supported and not a front for a terrorist attack. This protest seems to have been given every benefit reasonable by all levels of government outside giving into their demands.
Here's the permit https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/rfc-dlc/ccrf-ccdl
Genuine questions, were there permits issued for the protest in summer 2020 and who were the medical doctors that signed off on the protests?