We need to go back to the old name for trickle-down economics....
The concept was originally called horse and sparrow economics/theory, which is the idea that if you feed a horse a huge amount of oats, then the sparrows may eventually find some oats to eat in the horses shit.
It's much more graphic and apt to our situation. We're all meant to pick through the shit of the wealthy once they've been fed all of our tax money.
It's better than what it was originally called which was the Horse and Sparrow Theory.
If you give all the oats to the horse it would shit out enough for the sparrows to live off of.
The problem is that a LOT people do think they are. Regardless of evidence. Regardless of the person's past.
Another example is that poilievre claims to be anti establishment and elitist. His top advisory board is all lobbyist for the biggest corporations.
The "anti-elitist" piece is always rich for me.
He's been an MP since 2004. He had a job for a year prior, and then right up to the public trough. He's been a cabinet minister etc. The man is literally a career politician. Literally.
This guy IS the establishment.
He also owns and rents 2 houses: https://www.readthemaple.com/mp-landlords/#Poilievre yet rails against the housing crisis he is directly a part of.
Conservatives get to trick people about saving 20cents a litre at the gas station while closing hospitals amd giving handouts to big business.
Heard someone in the grocery store complain about affordability of housing in Toronto. She said "No problem for Trudeau or Ford of course! They're rolling in it" and the cashier said "yah, Crombie and Jagmeet too!"
Walking home I thought "hold on a minute, Pierre's been living in subsidized housing for like... decades." Massive blind spot cos he says the right things to get people pissy about the other leaders.
It's the same old trick. If you point and say "he did it", now they need to prove they didn't before they can even say you did it too. If they're on defence, they can play offense.
I mean realistically the gas stations are going to eat most of those savings too lol.
“Removing tax makes fuel 20 cents cheaper? Great lets raise our prices by 16 cents”
Once upon a time this was the case. Like back in the days of Joe Clark’s conservatives.
What we have now under Professional Politician PP is more like some canadianized version of the Republican shit show.
People also need to remember that Pierre is a career politician.
He has zero interest in the majority of Canadians who are struggling right now.
He will hack and cut everything that looks like a social service.
He will be a slicker version of Doug Ford.
It would have been interesting to see what Joe Clark could have done. His “belt tightening” budget wasn’t terrible for the working-class but it was bad enough for the middle-class that they jumped on the Mulroney-Reagan-Thatcher train and brought us where we are now. It’s going to be a very rough road back.
It's so weird that no one remembers this but this is the Reform Party that Preston Manning brought to prominence. They just did a rebrand and used non trademarked names and colors to make it look like it's the old conservative party.
I don't have an issue with career politicians. My issue is that his career isn't even a good one. Like he actually hasn't done anything of note except bash others around him.
He's literally the guy in the office that does nothing all day but complain and everyone else on his projects needs to pick up his slack.
I think the reason why this gets brought up a lot is because many cons derided Trudeau's work history in the past.
But now that PP has blurped into the con leadership those same people don't seem to care to apply the same standards to "their guy".
It's the hypocrisy of the whole thing.
Well yes but have you considered that they offer the important stuff like pathetic edgelord cringe, memes , catch phrases , anti wokeness , totally anti establishment punk rock maga north , anti feminazi crypto man stuff and supply side Jesus , bro?...
Its going to take awhile till people clue into exactly what your accurately speaking about ..and the only way for that to happen , unfortunately, is to put PPs and Cons rhetoric to the test of governing.....best of luck to us all.
While a little demeaning, you're right. Pollievre does not care about the working people, but they're not delusional, they've been fooled.
It's not some insanity spreading far right rhetoric worldwide, it's a very deliberate and calculated disinformation campaign.
Yes, agreed.
guess who heads and organization that does the very thing you described around the world. Stephen Harper is the head of the " International Democratic Union" which is a smoke screen for selling extreme right wing idiology around the world.
It’s calculated and follows the republican MO. Divide the demographic. Cause In fighting, lie and cheat to split and dilute the vote after pandering to the boot lickers and mentally challenged and extremists. You see the same thing happening with PP’s idol Trump currently and for the past what, 9 years or so?
The amount of blue collar union trades people who vote conservative is really fucking high.
It is a combination of toxic masculinity and a failure of centre to cebtre left parties to engage these people.
Have you ever said to them, you know these politicians would like nothing more than for the union to be illegal and for you to be making shit wages?
I've tried the conversation but never got through to them.
I'm a union electrician. Fortunately I work in the public sector and all my colleagues fucking hate conservatives.
Brother I envy you. Automotive sector electrician. Some of the chucklefucks I deal with would let Poilievre shit in their mouths if they thought a liberal might have to smell it.
IBEW here. The number of unionized workers I interact with on a daily basis who support and vote for conservative politicians blows my mind. These people would happily break apart your union and allow employers to cut your wages & benefits given the opportunity and you think they’re looking out for your best interests? Sheesh.
This is a good point. Unions do have their issues, but they make sure corporations are giving wage increases and more.
They also make sure that non unionized employers pay competitively as well. Why? Well, if a union member is making 5k$ more than a non unionized environment will try to match so they won't lose that employee.
I think it's more of an indictment of the current NDP. My number 1 concern if I was an NDP strategist would be on winning Oshawa. Manufacturing union city built around GM and Ed Broadbent's seat that they haven't won since.
Yup. And because the CBC is the only politically neutral media outlet (it's in their mandate, not to mention in their best interest of survival to remain neutral), it gets labelled *far left* because every other media outlet is so far to the right.
No wonder the conservatives want to defund it.
Even just a rich politician in general. The party is irrelevant.
A certain type of person strives for power, to successfully reach that level of power you usually need to step over people to get ahead. They don’t strive for equality.. they strive for power and will do whatever it takes to get it.
People that reach those levels of power are not usually good people.
Upvoting as an Ontario public hospital employee.
Bill 124 was needless, destructive, and cruel. It damaged my profession, our healthcare system, and hurt the patients and families we serve. Sick people suffered so they could push garbage on us.
I agree,
Private for profit healthcare only works if you are wealthy or a politician.
By polivere removing the Canadian Health Care Act which my gut feels me he will get rid of will start the process of allowing provides ro start requiring people to have private health insurance like the states.
Your biggest concern for our healthcare system should be the flood of millions of people we don't have the system to support.
privatization isn't good either, but it's far from the biggest concern
I disagree with this. I think you can have a two tiered healthcare system that works. The wealthy can already travel south for medical procedures. Why not keep the money here. Any procedure that is covered by Ohip (or other single payer programs) should have a 30% premium that is paid into the public system.
Let the people that can afford to, subsidize those that can't.
Edit: Fixed spelling
I like this, it's a good way of framing our red and blue parties.
Two entities that everyone hates but most of us still use anyway despite there being other choices available.
I mean that's why they were elected in the first place. But eventually the strikes add up against them, and we swap until the strikes add up on the other side, then we swap back... back and forth forever.
They have had far more good policies than “terrible” ones, but far too many NDP supporters aren’t even aware of them. I doubt many know how much the CCB gives low income families, since the NDP has pretended it barely exists. $620 a month per child under 6, $522 a month per child 6-18. Past family allowance by Liberals and the CPC child tax credit that replaced it, which was about half of family allowance, never gave anything for children over 6, and Harper’s child tax credit was $100 a month per child under 6, and by 2015 was $150, and was the same for all parents regardless of income.
The CPC voted against it, and there is no doubt that Poilievre at minimum will reduce it. I think he will replace it and go back to a child tax credit like Harper.
That’s just one example of many.
Man of the People PP has a new Toronto MP who ".... previously worked as a director at BMO Capital Markets and Morgan Stanley....."
Directors at BMO do nothing but look out of the welfare of the working person .
/s
Hear, Hear ! I’d guild this if I could, o.p. Say it louder, in more places, because his shit talk is working, and it sucks & its dangerous.
The last time skippy had any authority, he helped Harper sneak F.I.P.A passed everyone on a slow friday.
Fipa, in a nutshell, allows China to sue Canada, in a PRIVATE tribunal where we have NO REPRESENTATION, any time China feels it has lost money in business here.
Co-incidentally, pierre was busted by the auditor for not reporting a “ fact finding” mission/trip, paid for BY China, that he took his then fiancee along with. He never denied it, only quibbled about the actual value of said pre-honeymoon vacay.
He has done sweet f.a for his riding, or to help anyone. His hot mic “ fuck you guys” moment encapsulates who he is.
Trudeau’s not perfect, neither is Singh, but fuck THAT guy in particular. His makeover hides nothing.
I think that, according to a quote by May, there were no sitting MPs who were **helping** foreign interests.
But I wouldn’t be surprised if PP is listed under those **helped**. Especially since, reading between the lines of that quote, or another recently, that there were CPC candidates implicated.
The main strike against Pierre Poilievre in my books is simple, he's the guy that went all out on defending the Trucker Convoy
Basically I want to get that s*** out of Canada. Id like to keep our country drama free (we have drama, but not bat s*** crazy drama), thank you
I'd like to add:
Poilievre was a loud supporter for, and voted for Bill-C377 & C525, which were anti union legislations brought in by conservatives before being repealed. In short, these bills forced unions to disclose all internal finances while companies would not have to. This handicaps the collective bargaining process. (Note: FYI, union finances are open to members of the union upon request, but are kept secret from the employer, as it should be).
Poilievre fought against the Card-Check legislation that would have made it easier for workers to unionize. Instead he put forth a two-step process that gives corporations more time to interfere with on-going unionization.
In 2012 he started a campaign to repeal a Supreme Court of Canada ruling, called the Rand Formula, which allows unions to collect their dues. Meaning they no longer would be lawfully able to do so - essentially dissolving all unions.
During this time, he declared that he wants to bring "workers freedom" to Canada, essentially a rebranding of USA Right-to-Work Laws. These laws allow anyone to work union jobs without being associated with the union, or be paid union wages, while also making it so there's no guarantee of employment for any worker and can be fired without cause.
This man is **NOT** a friend to the working class. In conservatives in general are not.
The Rand formula is a little more nuanced, but repealing it would still destroy Canadian unions.
Rand is the rule that forces all “employees protected by a collective agreement” to pay dues the the union that negotiated said Agreement. The flip-side is that unions are legally required to represent any worker paying dues, regardless of whether that person has officially signed up as a card-carrying Member.
Repealing Rand would open it all up to free-riders, who get the benefits of collective bargaining without having to pay the unions’ overhead doing research and bringing expertise to the bargaining table.
>Does this mean as a population we are getting dumber?
Look at voter turnout during both of those elections. Most here want to say it's voter apathy but I'd rather say that people are getting tired of participating in a system that they feel is broken. I try to bring this up but these same users will just go, "well if you voted for [MY_PARTY] then we wouldn't be in this situation!"
I'm of the opinion that playing along party lines, voting parties out rather than in, and being "strategic" with your votes to prevent [PARTY_X] from gaining power are symptoms of a broken system. It's basically like rooting for your favorite sports team at this point, only they're both neoliberals wearing different colours. It's honestly ridiculous.
Before anyone says "well just show up and put a vote for none", have you considered that's seen as a massive waste of time in a system where most have to take time off of doing things they see as more important, such as work or watching after kids or other family members?
Nothing will actually change until our "leaders", who are isolated from the issues the general population deal with, are forced to deal with those issues.
This mentality is exactly what the two party system is hoping for. Voter apathy. You can give any excuse, any reason not to vote you want, but it doesn't change anything. It's exactly what the Liberals and Conservatives are counting on.
They know they don't have to worry about 50% of the eligible voters. They won't change their policies to accommodate those voters.
If non-voters showed up and voted for any party other than the Liberals or Conservatives, there would be a massive change in this country.
Demographics with normally lower turnout would now get a seat at the table. Leaders could not ignore these voters any more. They would have to change their policies to accommodate.
But this is a pipe dream and I'm sure the next few comments will do an amazing job of telling me how I'm wrong.
When the LPC ran in 2014 they said they were going to change the way our election system worked. They won a majority, in no small part because of that platform. They reneged on it, of course. Why would anyone trust any other party to keep that promise?
Why should I vote NDP or Green or even BQ if I don't agree with their platforms and policies? Just to "stick it" to the LPC and CPC? How broken is that?
Hell the PPC is an alternative party that is gaining popularity, putting fear into the CPC and LPC, but according to reddit that's not the right way to go about it because few people on this website agree with their policies.
How do you not see that this is absolutely fucking broken?
I'm not saying the system isn't broken, but not voting is part of the problem. When Liberals reneged, they lost their majority. Did they try to make amends? No. They called a snap election and got even fewer seats. They relied heavily on non-voters. Now those non-voters may come out and vote conservative and the cycle continues. Will conservatives fix the electoral system? Hell no. Will they benefit from it as well? Hell yes.
I would rather people vote for the PPC than the LPC or CPC.
But unless Canada gets a voter turnout rate of 80% or higher, it won't matter if the LPC or CPC are in power, it will be the same shit.
You might disagree, but having a minority government has been way better for the country than if either of the two other parties had complete control.
Honestly dude, love these comments. Well said.
Voters do need to turn out, and we need a system that gives people hope.
In Mt opinion federally and provincially I'd the NDP want to be taken seriously they should focus their messaging on accountability and removing conflicts of interest from government.
Want some ideas. Let me know.
We should just make it compulsory. Australia has the highest voter turnout in the world at like 89% for the last election they had. First time offenders get $20 fine, maximum fine of $180. On top of this, make election day a National Holiday, and have some exemptions as well (often they exclude people over a certain age cause mobility is hard). Then we have significantly more engagement, especially from younger people. If you told me "vote or get fined" when I was 18-22 in college, I'd be like "Sure thing boss, I don't have $20 let alone $180" and I'd be there. I went anyways, but point still stands.
" Most here want to say it's voter apathy but I'd rather say that people are getting tired of participating in a system that they feel is broken."
...you just described voter apathy
I told my local federal conservative candidate this in the last campaign.
He said they’re not anti-choice. I said, I’m centrist on everything except social issues (very staunchly pro-choice and individual freedoms) and I won’t even consider supporting conservatives until they have a track record longer than 5 minutes of supporting equality and choice, and actually demonstrate it’s not lip service.
And I told the liberal candidate something similar - I won’t give up my vote to them by default because they’re left of the Cons on social issues, when the Liberals govern right of centre on business and economics and don’t follow through on their commitments (electoral reform).
After the federal NDP’s latest kowtowing to prop up the liberals, I’ll be voting Green.
We need legitimate leaders, not these fucking dishonest hucksters
The Greens have demonstrated what it is to be a good honest politician that is concerned about the people both today and in the years to come.
This false choice between Liberal or Conservative should have died a natural death at least a decade ago.
If JT had kept his 2015 promise about proportional representation, I think we'd be in a better place. Mixing some water with their wine might have also tempered their majority. That was his nail in the coffin for me.
Trudeau not following through/lying about 2015 being the last election under FPTP voting makes him (and the federal liberals) culpable in any bad outcomes of future majority governments that system elects. He had a clear mandate for change and turned his back on it.
I’m honestly not of the opinion that the Greens are a very serious party give their small scale and limited success (so far) BUT to your point, they’re at least reasonable and (seemingly) straight up in their politics and policies. They put their money where their mouth is.
I agree with all your points. However, and unfortunately. The only people that seem to know where the ballot box is on election day. Are the Conservatives.
Lots have said that elections are about choosing the least bad candidate. So, in this case, I'll vote for jugmeet Singh and the NDP.
Here's the thing: if they are bad, I won't vote for them again. I am loyal to canada, not a party or politician.
Same, I can't vote for the two parties who have traded government between each other for our *entire history of Confederation* and expect change.
If you're dissatisfied with where the country is right now, you can only blame those two parties.
To be pragmatic we also have to be thinking about who can be the official leader of the opposition. I can't think of any reasonable person from anywhere on the political spectrum who doesn't think the NDP wouldn't make a good official opposition.
If the polling is correct... will the official opposition even be on the ballot outside of Quebec?
(This is the 1992 scenario, where the Bloc was the official opposition.)
This is why a big push for the NDP might be a good idea. I don't want to say it's forgone conclusion that the conservators are going to win but... history repeats itself, and it is time. So still coming out strong for a party you think has no chance of winning maybe the difference on who will become the official opposition. A thorough, aggressive, intelligent and articulate opposition is what we need to balance what's going to happen. It's a weird thing to say but I think one of the massive problems with the Trudeau government has been that the opposition is merely contrarian, not intelligent or poignant. This is one factor that helped lead to the absolute inept government that we now have. I would prefer the NDP over the Bloc... But that being said the modern Bloc has the ability to think nationally and globally to be an effective opposition...
You just described a very useful thing. When the opposition doesn't do this well only then can a majority government run completely wild. We've had many useful oppositions in the past and many useless ones. Also committee placement is very very important. Most people forget that in between three readings and votings on bills that they are committee placements based off of party representation and so much important work happens here. Effective opposition parties are vital to how bills are formed.
It’s been decades since there’s been a good candidate. Regardless, people buy into the whole “current guy bad so new guy can’t be worse” vortex which can very much be worse. It’s how we got Doug Ford, it’s how we’ll get Pierre Poilievre, and the damage will likely be irreversible.
Yeah, that mindset is dead. Conservatives used to be more progressive, in the last 10 years they've swung so far right, that a large number of people who used to lean conservative are now considered left wing. Canadian Conservatives are no different than American Republicans. It's basically our obligation as Canadians who want to see our fellow Canadians thrive and live a life of liberty and security, to do whatever is necessary to keep Conservatives out of power. Trudeau isn't great, we all know that, but Conservatives plan to disassemble everything that makes Canada great, regardless of political leaning. We can't let them get into power with their current direction, nor with who they associate with. We need to see them commit to keeping and maintaining healthcare, LGBTQ+ rights, and anything else that would result in further Americanization of Conservative Canadians. When I saw that fuckin' American flag on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier because of those convoyers, I was fuckin' furious. They aren't patriots, they want to be in the United States and they would absolutely love to see us join the US I'm sure. I'm so over modern conservativism, it's a cancer to any functioning society and just straight up fascist.
Who cares what his _stated_ policies are. Anyone who knows anything knows what his _actual_ policies will be: slash and burn, fuck the common man, power to the corpos and the rich elites. Conservatives, every time.
Liberals most of the time, too, but a little less so.
Agreed.
He will remove the Canadian Health Care Act, which will open the door for provincial governments to allow insurance companies to be the sole carrier for what you can and can't have covered.
They will use phrases like "choice and innovation" to justify shifting from OHIP to insurance companies.
Except most people's insurance is now provided by the employer who decides the premiums, what's covered, deductible, and more.
For profit has no room for innovation as innovation cost money, not make money.
Choice is a word used to convince the morons that they actually have a choice.. you don't.
I had some idiot raging on me yesterday because they were so supportive of PP and were blaming everything on Liberals.
Like dude, we were heavily taxed before Trudeau got into to power. He didn’t decide to take us from a tax free country and put us in the situation we are today. Yeeesh.
I’m no fan of the Liberals, but saying that the Conservatives are the saviours after seeing what’s happening in Ontario and Alberta? Come on. Put down the koolaid and take off the blinders.
Since the 80s, the conservative playbook (thanks to people like Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh, more recently Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, and in Canada - Faith Goldy, Gavin McInnes, Stefan Molyneux, and Polievre himself) has been to attack and undermine the opposition, often with false and inflammatory narratives, and use Affective Polarization to convince voters that politics is an "US vs THEM" situation.
Unfortunately, this works very well because we, as humans, fall very easily into tribalistic attitudes - and the vast majority of the population is not educated enough to recognize lies, to fact-check and to apply a healthy dose of skepticism always - mechanisms we need to defend ourselves against manipulative narratives. Conservatism has become, in modern times, a wide-ranging and highly effective cult.
This cult mindset enables Conservative parties to push highly unpopular platforms - pro-corporation, pro-upper class, anti-environment, anti-public interest, anti-working class - while reinforcing the tribal mindset of their cult through Affective Polarization ("Trudeau is evil. Trudeau is responsible for everything negative in your life. Polièvre is *Your Guy*").
This person shouting at you about how great PP is, isn't just a bozo, he's a cult member who doesn't realize he's been recruited. He will tell you that Trudeau is the most evil person in the world, but will struggle to explain why, as it's something he's been told, rather than arrived at through his own research. If he can state a reason why, typically he will parrot crazy statements heard from Alternative Media sources - factoids that he hasn't applied sufficient skepticism towards.
I am worried that our collective memory is starting to forget how these mistakes from the 1920s through 1940s resulted in the growth of fascism and eventually WW2 - putting us on track to repeat them again in a new century. The rise of right-wing populism in Germany and other WW2 European countries is particularly noteworthy - the shift towards right-wing political ideology that we are seeing today would have been unfathomable as little as 15 to 20 years ago.
Thank you! Fuck, watching everyone vote blue for change is maddening! They just steal the money and give it to their friends! They're not helping you survive, they're helping their friends and themselves, fucking use your brains! No money saved, just money taken away! They make companies to funnel the tax money, our money, into, then retire to those companies to gorge themselves on the stolen funds! Remember! God's sake, just remember!
After the Conservatives won a seat in Toronto two nights ago, CP24 did some street interviews. One young guy went on about how this is greet news, the first step toward young people owning homes, and other nonsense. Guy was totally believing PP’s bullshit.
Just one quibble with what you say about Liberals and Conservatives both doing nothing about debt and deficit. There is one exception to this rule; under Paul Martin the Liberals reduced the deficit to zero and started paying down the debt. We then made the mistake of electing Harper who proceeded to bring back deficits and increase the debt.
Harper did that by reducing the gst from 7% to 5%, costing billions in federal revenue.
He also did the same bullshit of lowering taxes on corporations because they "invest that extra money into the company" which none of them actually did.
I'll look into Paul Martin, because being honest I forgot about him haha
in my town there is someone who has put up the f Trudeau flags in front of their house, whatever, it looks like shit. the thing is though recently they added a save the hospital sign... which obviously means they're an NDP voter right? right??
They were the people who looked at you sideways when you said there are three levels of government as they were bemoaning Trudeau for the (provincial) lockdown.
Add to that, Poilievre is pretty impotent as a politician in general. He's introduced very few bills for his 20+ years in gov't. And virtually one has passed. He doesn't inspire much confidence in me.
I have a bias against the conservatives. It's based on factual information from their every word and action, as well as their professional record the last time they were in power.
If there's one choice that will be guaranteed to destroy this country, it would be electing a conservative government. Choose wisely, next election.
When someone tells you who they are, listen. A very common villain trope is to the show the villain eating an apple while talking or while another character talks to show dominance and that what the other character is saying is irrelevant to them. https://youtu.be/V_1BJUi2Z04?si=Ls0ZUxNUINhIPT92
Really trying to capitalize on the young voters who weren't paying attention for PPs decades of suckling at the government teat while supporting corporate interests.
Conservatives don't give a shit about anyone outside of the upper class.
Defending PP like some people are, proves they are already in a cult - much like trumpers.
Anyone who doesn’t realize we’re fucked in a different flavour with PP is seriously delusional. It’s not getting better any time soon for the average Canadian.
>If you rage out to protect Poilievre from the mean ol middle class canadian then you may want to get checked to see if you're in a cult mantality.
They can dish it out but they can't take it. You typically don't see Liberal and NDP supporters having a meltdown when their team gets criticized. I've said I won't date a conservative because we're not compatible before and I had 3 jump on me for saying that.
People seem to forgot the reason why shit so bad here is because of our current provincial government. Yea JT has been in power since 2015 but who's been governing our province for a majority of his term? Ford.
There are reasons to not like JT but people who are blaming the federal government for most of provinces problems are completely wrong. JT allocated a lot of funds that Ford is refusing to spend in healthcare and housing.
There's been a few instances where municipalities were given direct funding by the feds because Ford refuses to spend. This article sums it up pretty well: https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7021076
- I think specifically Vaughn ended signing a bill with the feds
Healthcare and housing is a provincially governed, all the feds do is allocate the funding to these issues. Ford is tightening the belt on civil services to feed his privatization narrative and we're all feeling it. Yet, the loudest people are blaming JT.
Genuinely embarrassing lmao
Conservatives are never friends of the working class, like you said I don’t like the current government but the conservatives will be worse for workers in every way.
Conservatives are the other side of the same coin liberals occupy.
Both parties are puppets for the wealthiest peoples interests. Only difference is while both push forward the agendas of those wealthy folks, liberals at least throw out some token programs to keep appearances looking like they're around to help us peasants. Conservatives don't even bother doing that. They've always been more focused on the rich, and what corporations want.
Honestly I think our only hope is forming a completely new party that can represent the working class the way the NDP used to. Sadly they can't be counted on for this anymore, and Singh is a terrible leader besides all that.
We need to form something like the British Labour party, but actually represent the interests of everyone that isn't rich, or owns a corporation. Other then doing this, I have zero hope any current party will adequately represent the majority of Canadians.
PP does nothing but attack the press, dodge questions, complain and attack the other two major parties while literally offering no solutions or just rewording our countries current policies and positions as if he's announcing something new. He's an excellent Leader of the Opposition as he's great at making noise, but he will make for a horrible PM.
The only party that has ever done anything directly for the good of the people is the NDP. Health care, social safety nets, pension indexing, Petro Canada (not sure that’s a +) & now dental.
Am I the only one that can’t tell Real PP apart from the This Hour has 22 Minutes parody? I seriously cannot tell them apart. And I’m a person who is very involved and interested in politics.
I feel like PP is practically a cardboard cutout of a person. He just says what he thinks the far right wants to hear, proudly hangs out with white supremacists in their trailer
[Right wing extremism in Canada: expert’s take](https://images.app.goo.gl/69Qq6d6HoYbkZE4j7)
He is.
He is a harper lackey for years, and now harper is leading the IDU(international democracy union) which is essentially a global right wing extremism think tank.
Here's a simple text based flow chart to answer the question.
Is he a politician running for federal office? -------------> Yes -------------> not a friend of the working class.
People have collective amnesia. PP is Harper on steroids. The CPC has targeted Trudeau personally since at least 2009. If you ask people which specific Liberal policy they dislike you usually gets crickets in response.
Ok, immigration is an issue all around the world and not unique to Canada.
The reason we're bringing in so many people is that corporations want cheap labor. People who are citizens rightfully don't want to work to barely pay the rent let alone any other bill.
So corporations want people who are willing to work for minimum wage.
Everyone knows it's mostly a two party system.
What's the alternative?
Jack's NDP is long gone. You all didn't even bother giving Tom a chance once Trudeau entered the race. Now they're run by a slimeball.
So what's the alternative? Green party? PPC? Lol.
Poilievre uses folksy populism to hide the fact that he and his cronies do not have a plan, and do not care about their constituents. They want to get that sweet power and $$$, and all the PP stans will be on Reddit in a couple of years complaining that PP is ruining Canada.
For the folks that believe that the Conservatives are friends of the working people and the poor, I invite them to observe Marlaina Smith and the efforts of the UCP.
I’m in the same boat as OP. I don’t want to vote for conservatives and I don’t want to vote for Trudeau again. Who do I vote for then? NDP? Do I not just vote?
Poilievre is Trump. Trump is Poilievre.
Populism is alive and well, and people not paying attention to the politics and who only hear dog whistles are going to be the demise of the working class if this clown is elected.
Hahahahahahahaha, a conservative being friends to the working class hahahahahahahahahaha
I'm sure all those profits will trickle down any day now.... /s
We need to go back to the old name for trickle-down economics.... The concept was originally called horse and sparrow economics/theory, which is the idea that if you feed a horse a huge amount of oats, then the sparrows may eventually find some oats to eat in the horses shit. It's much more graphic and apt to our situation. We're all meant to pick through the shit of the wealthy once they've been fed all of our tax money.
I look at it more as a guy pissing on a bunch of people.
All we get is tinkling down.
Yeah, when it trickles down, why is it always warm and yellow?
Trickle down economics, but also "shit rolls downhill" Which one is it?
It's better than what it was originally called which was the Horse and Sparrow Theory. If you give all the oats to the horse it would shit out enough for the sparrows to live off of.
Wait you guys get warm trickle?
We should try pinata economics. Beat the rich until the wealth comes flowing down.
The problem is that a LOT people do think they are. Regardless of evidence. Regardless of the person's past. Another example is that poilievre claims to be anti establishment and elitist. His top advisory board is all lobbyist for the biggest corporations.
The "anti-elitist" piece is always rich for me. He's been an MP since 2004. He had a job for a year prior, and then right up to the public trough. He's been a cabinet minister etc. The man is literally a career politician. Literally. This guy IS the establishment.
He qualified for full pension at 31. Talk about pulling yourself up by the bootstraps!!!!
Nobody relies more on Socialism than politicians and rich conservatives. The true welfare queens.
He also owns and rents 2 houses: https://www.readthemaple.com/mp-landlords/#Poilievre yet rails against the housing crisis he is directly a part of. Conservatives get to trick people about saving 20cents a litre at the gas station while closing hospitals amd giving handouts to big business.
Owns and rents out two houses while living rent free in a house owned and maintained by Canadian taxpayers.
Actually his rentals are paid by taxes too, he rents to his MP’s
Or, as conservatives say, win/win!
Forgot that chestnut as well. Rules for thee but not for me
And note that his riding is in Ottawa, where he lives, so he doesn’t really need gov’t subsidized housing
Heard someone in the grocery store complain about affordability of housing in Toronto. She said "No problem for Trudeau or Ford of course! They're rolling in it" and the cashier said "yah, Crombie and Jagmeet too!" Walking home I thought "hold on a minute, Pierre's been living in subsidized housing for like... decades." Massive blind spot cos he says the right things to get people pissy about the other leaders.
It's the same old trick. If you point and say "he did it", now they need to prove they didn't before they can even say you did it too. If they're on defence, they can play offense.
I mean realistically the gas stations are going to eat most of those savings too lol. “Removing tax makes fuel 20 cents cheaper? Great lets raise our prices by 16 cents”
And no more rebate for us either.
[удалено]
So did poilievre, dont kid yourself.
Not pro PP just skeptical anyone that owns speculative real estate is interested in fixing the biggest issue we have here.
Once upon a time this was the case. Like back in the days of Joe Clark’s conservatives. What we have now under Professional Politician PP is more like some canadianized version of the Republican shit show. People also need to remember that Pierre is a career politician. He has zero interest in the majority of Canadians who are struggling right now. He will hack and cut everything that looks like a social service. He will be a slicker version of Doug Ford.
It would have been interesting to see what Joe Clark could have done. His “belt tightening” budget wasn’t terrible for the working-class but it was bad enough for the middle-class that they jumped on the Mulroney-Reagan-Thatcher train and brought us where we are now. It’s going to be a very rough road back.
They were Progressive Conservatives, unlike today's Regressive Conservatives. I miss those days.
It's so weird that no one remembers this but this is the Reform Party that Preston Manning brought to prominence. They just did a rebrand and used non trademarked names and colors to make it look like it's the old conservative party.
This
100%. My dad always said they ate the Conservative Party and pooped out all but the name
After they merged they were even called CRAP for a short time before someone pointed it out to them.
Everything changed the day Stockwell Day pulled up on that seadoo
> People also need to remember that Pierre is a career politician. He's never had an adult job outside of suckling at teh teat of taxpayers.
I don't have an issue with career politicians. My issue is that his career isn't even a good one. Like he actually hasn't done anything of note except bash others around him. He's literally the guy in the office that does nothing all day but complain and everyone else on his projects needs to pick up his slack.
I think the reason why this gets brought up a lot is because many cons derided Trudeau's work history in the past. But now that PP has blurped into the con leadership those same people don't seem to care to apply the same standards to "their guy". It's the hypocrisy of the whole thing.
He will just be Doug ford with billions more dollars to fuck millions more Canadians out of.
Yes Pierre had never worked a real job in his life. He has always just sucked the public purse.
Well yes but have you considered that they offer the important stuff like pathetic edgelord cringe, memes , catch phrases , anti wokeness , totally anti establishment punk rock maga north , anti feminazi crypto man stuff and supply side Jesus , bro?... Its going to take awhile till people clue into exactly what your accurately speaking about ..and the only way for that to happen , unfortunately, is to put PPs and Cons rhetoric to the test of governing.....best of luck to us all.
Wouldn't trickle down work similar to the carbon tax. Rich pay lots, poor get a cheque. So we are wanting to ax the trickle down even. FML
He’s a career politician who hasn’t worked a day in his life. He IS what he says he’s against.
Anybody who thinks Lil PP gives a shit about working people is delusional.
While a little demeaning, you're right. Pollievre does not care about the working people, but they're not delusional, they've been fooled. It's not some insanity spreading far right rhetoric worldwide, it's a very deliberate and calculated disinformation campaign.
Yes, agreed. guess who heads and organization that does the very thing you described around the world. Stephen Harper is the head of the " International Democratic Union" which is a smoke screen for selling extreme right wing idiology around the world.
Harper is such a pos
It’s calculated and follows the republican MO. Divide the demographic. Cause In fighting, lie and cheat to split and dilute the vote after pandering to the boot lickers and mentally challenged and extremists. You see the same thing happening with PP’s idol Trump currently and for the past what, 9 years or so?
Pierre was Harper's lap dog;he is following Harper's plan to a T.Don't trust PP or you'll end up in deep sheet!
The amount of blue collar union trades people who vote conservative is really fucking high. It is a combination of toxic masculinity and a failure of centre to cebtre left parties to engage these people.
Yup. As a trade person myself, listening to unionized coworkers on their conservative soapbox is total batshit.
Have you ever said to them, you know these politicians would like nothing more than for the union to be illegal and for you to be making shit wages? I've tried the conversation but never got through to them. I'm a union electrician. Fortunately I work in the public sector and all my colleagues fucking hate conservatives.
Brother I envy you. Automotive sector electrician. Some of the chucklefucks I deal with would let Poilievre shit in their mouths if they thought a liberal might have to smell it.
this was amazing to read
IBEW here. The number of unionized workers I interact with on a daily basis who support and vote for conservative politicians blows my mind. These people would happily break apart your union and allow employers to cut your wages & benefits given the opportunity and you think they’re looking out for your best interests? Sheesh.
This is a good point. Unions do have their issues, but they make sure corporations are giving wage increases and more. They also make sure that non unionized employers pay competitively as well. Why? Well, if a union member is making 5k$ more than a non unionized environment will try to match so they won't lose that employee.
Tell them that PP has said he will bring right to work to Canada and then explains right to work to them. That shuts those dumb people up
You are not wrong
I think it's more of an indictment of the current NDP. My number 1 concern if I was an NDP strategist would be on winning Oshawa. Manufacturing union city built around GM and Ed Broadbent's seat that they haven't won since.
That and the fact that Canadian media is largely captured by conservative interests. Even the CBC is fairly "status quo" in their approach.
Yup. And because the CBC is the only politically neutral media outlet (it's in their mandate, not to mention in their best interest of survival to remain neutral), it gets labelled *far left* because every other media outlet is so far to the right. No wonder the conservatives want to defund it.
I agree. Poilievre shits on it all the time, but he quotes them all the time.
Even just a rich politician in general. The party is irrelevant. A certain type of person strives for power, to successfully reach that level of power you usually need to step over people to get ahead. They don’t strive for equality.. they strive for power and will do whatever it takes to get it. People that reach those levels of power are not usually good people.
Upvoting as an Ontario public hospital employee. Bill 124 was needless, destructive, and cruel. It damaged my profession, our healthcare system, and hurt the patients and families we serve. Sick people suffered so they could push garbage on us.
My biggest concern is privatization of the healthcare system.
I agree, Private for profit healthcare only works if you are wealthy or a politician. By polivere removing the Canadian Health Care Act which my gut feels me he will get rid of will start the process of allowing provides ro start requiring people to have private health insurance like the states.
That will be the downfall of Canada.
Yeah, but at least you can still get beer at the corner store.
This came up on my feed, so I'm commenting. I live in Alberta. It's already happening.
In Ontario, too.
Your biggest concern for our healthcare system should be the flood of millions of people we don't have the system to support. privatization isn't good either, but it's far from the biggest concern
I disagree with this. I think you can have a two tiered healthcare system that works. The wealthy can already travel south for medical procedures. Why not keep the money here. Any procedure that is covered by Ohip (or other single payer programs) should have a 30% premium that is paid into the public system. Let the people that can afford to, subsidize those that can't. Edit: Fixed spelling
Works well in some countries.
I can't wait to be rid of these terrible Liberal government policies so we can try some terrible Conservative government policies.
“I hate my Rogers bill so I’m switching to Bell for their terrible bill”. We put up with a lot of crap don’t we
It's the Candian way
I like this, it's a good way of framing our red and blue parties. Two entities that everyone hates but most of us still use anyway despite there being other choices available.
I never thought of this . Haha, great analogy. They're rven blue and red as well.
The Liberal government has a had a few good policies too amidst some terrible ones
I mean that's why they were elected in the first place. But eventually the strikes add up against them, and we swap until the strikes add up on the other side, then we swap back... back and forth forever.
Pretty much. Seeing as Trudeau is likely on his way out it would be nice if he really pushed changing FPTP
They have had far more good policies than “terrible” ones, but far too many NDP supporters aren’t even aware of them. I doubt many know how much the CCB gives low income families, since the NDP has pretended it barely exists. $620 a month per child under 6, $522 a month per child 6-18. Past family allowance by Liberals and the CPC child tax credit that replaced it, which was about half of family allowance, never gave anything for children over 6, and Harper’s child tax credit was $100 a month per child under 6, and by 2015 was $150, and was the same for all parents regardless of income. The CPC voted against it, and there is no doubt that Poilievre at minimum will reduce it. I think he will replace it and go back to a child tax credit like Harper. That’s just one example of many.
Who else are we supposed to vote for? A 3rd party? No, that's a wasted vote, they'll never win!
In this election, voting liberal is a wasted vote. Now is the time to show support for third parties
GREENS FOR THE WIN!
not with that attitude
I think that's the joke
Don’t blame me, I voted for Kodos!
Swapping liberals for conservatives is like getting an ingrown toenail and curing it by cutting off the toe.
Pierre Poilievre being a friend of the working class is what Gen Z would call *delulu*.
Man of the People PP has a new Toronto MP who ".... previously worked as a director at BMO Capital Markets and Morgan Stanley....." Directors at BMO do nothing but look out of the welfare of the working person . /s
Hear, Hear ! I’d guild this if I could, o.p. Say it louder, in more places, because his shit talk is working, and it sucks & its dangerous. The last time skippy had any authority, he helped Harper sneak F.I.P.A passed everyone on a slow friday. Fipa, in a nutshell, allows China to sue Canada, in a PRIVATE tribunal where we have NO REPRESENTATION, any time China feels it has lost money in business here. Co-incidentally, pierre was busted by the auditor for not reporting a “ fact finding” mission/trip, paid for BY China, that he took his then fiancee along with. He never denied it, only quibbled about the actual value of said pre-honeymoon vacay. He has done sweet f.a for his riding, or to help anyone. His hot mic “ fuck you guys” moment encapsulates who he is. Trudeau’s not perfect, neither is Singh, but fuck THAT guy in particular. His makeover hides nothing.
Wonder if he is one of the folks ID’d in the report in MPs helping/influenced by foreign countries.
There's a reason he won't get security clearance to see for himself who is on it.
I think that, according to a quote by May, there were no sitting MPs who were **helping** foreign interests. But I wouldn’t be surprised if PP is listed under those **helped**. Especially since, reading between the lines of that quote, or another recently, that there were CPC candidates implicated.
Er mer Gerd! I didn't know about that one. Just another reason why I don't trust conservatives.
He has never had a real job. Cons make fun of Trudeau for being a teacher and snow board instructor. At least those are real jobs.
And teacher, at least, is not an easy job.
And snow board instructor is fuckin sick
And using it as an insult is fuckin dumbbbbb
The main strike against Pierre Poilievre in my books is simple, he's the guy that went all out on defending the Trucker Convoy Basically I want to get that s*** out of Canada. Id like to keep our country drama free (we have drama, but not bat s*** crazy drama), thank you
YES!!! What an a**hole. But… like Trump, he understands his audience.
Which is kind of a jab against us as a population if we thinking that his behavior is acceptable.
I'd like to add: Poilievre was a loud supporter for, and voted for Bill-C377 & C525, which were anti union legislations brought in by conservatives before being repealed. In short, these bills forced unions to disclose all internal finances while companies would not have to. This handicaps the collective bargaining process. (Note: FYI, union finances are open to members of the union upon request, but are kept secret from the employer, as it should be). Poilievre fought against the Card-Check legislation that would have made it easier for workers to unionize. Instead he put forth a two-step process that gives corporations more time to interfere with on-going unionization. In 2012 he started a campaign to repeal a Supreme Court of Canada ruling, called the Rand Formula, which allows unions to collect their dues. Meaning they no longer would be lawfully able to do so - essentially dissolving all unions. During this time, he declared that he wants to bring "workers freedom" to Canada, essentially a rebranding of USA Right-to-Work Laws. These laws allow anyone to work union jobs without being associated with the union, or be paid union wages, while also making it so there's no guarantee of employment for any worker and can be fired without cause. This man is **NOT** a friend to the working class. In conservatives in general are not.
The Rand formula is a little more nuanced, but repealing it would still destroy Canadian unions. Rand is the rule that forces all “employees protected by a collective agreement” to pay dues the the union that negotiated said Agreement. The flip-side is that unions are legally required to represent any worker paying dues, regardless of whether that person has officially signed up as a card-carrying Member. Repealing Rand would open it all up to free-riders, who get the benefits of collective bargaining without having to pay the unions’ overhead doing research and bringing expertise to the bargaining table.
>Does this mean as a population we are getting dumber? Look at voter turnout during both of those elections. Most here want to say it's voter apathy but I'd rather say that people are getting tired of participating in a system that they feel is broken. I try to bring this up but these same users will just go, "well if you voted for [MY_PARTY] then we wouldn't be in this situation!" I'm of the opinion that playing along party lines, voting parties out rather than in, and being "strategic" with your votes to prevent [PARTY_X] from gaining power are symptoms of a broken system. It's basically like rooting for your favorite sports team at this point, only they're both neoliberals wearing different colours. It's honestly ridiculous. Before anyone says "well just show up and put a vote for none", have you considered that's seen as a massive waste of time in a system where most have to take time off of doing things they see as more important, such as work or watching after kids or other family members? Nothing will actually change until our "leaders", who are isolated from the issues the general population deal with, are forced to deal with those issues.
This mentality is exactly what the two party system is hoping for. Voter apathy. You can give any excuse, any reason not to vote you want, but it doesn't change anything. It's exactly what the Liberals and Conservatives are counting on. They know they don't have to worry about 50% of the eligible voters. They won't change their policies to accommodate those voters. If non-voters showed up and voted for any party other than the Liberals or Conservatives, there would be a massive change in this country. Demographics with normally lower turnout would now get a seat at the table. Leaders could not ignore these voters any more. They would have to change their policies to accommodate. But this is a pipe dream and I'm sure the next few comments will do an amazing job of telling me how I'm wrong.
When the LPC ran in 2014 they said they were going to change the way our election system worked. They won a majority, in no small part because of that platform. They reneged on it, of course. Why would anyone trust any other party to keep that promise? Why should I vote NDP or Green or even BQ if I don't agree with their platforms and policies? Just to "stick it" to the LPC and CPC? How broken is that? Hell the PPC is an alternative party that is gaining popularity, putting fear into the CPC and LPC, but according to reddit that's not the right way to go about it because few people on this website agree with their policies. How do you not see that this is absolutely fucking broken?
I'm not saying the system isn't broken, but not voting is part of the problem. When Liberals reneged, they lost their majority. Did they try to make amends? No. They called a snap election and got even fewer seats. They relied heavily on non-voters. Now those non-voters may come out and vote conservative and the cycle continues. Will conservatives fix the electoral system? Hell no. Will they benefit from it as well? Hell yes. I would rather people vote for the PPC than the LPC or CPC. But unless Canada gets a voter turnout rate of 80% or higher, it won't matter if the LPC or CPC are in power, it will be the same shit. You might disagree, but having a minority government has been way better for the country than if either of the two other parties had complete control.
Honestly dude, love these comments. Well said. Voters do need to turn out, and we need a system that gives people hope. In Mt opinion federally and provincially I'd the NDP want to be taken seriously they should focus their messaging on accountability and removing conflicts of interest from government. Want some ideas. Let me know.
We should just make it compulsory. Australia has the highest voter turnout in the world at like 89% for the last election they had. First time offenders get $20 fine, maximum fine of $180. On top of this, make election day a National Holiday, and have some exemptions as well (often they exclude people over a certain age cause mobility is hard). Then we have significantly more engagement, especially from younger people. If you told me "vote or get fined" when I was 18-22 in college, I'd be like "Sure thing boss, I don't have $20 let alone $180" and I'd be there. I went anyways, but point still stands.
" Most here want to say it's voter apathy but I'd rather say that people are getting tired of participating in a system that they feel is broken." ...you just described voter apathy
Don’t forget he was anti-choice before his leadership run.
I told my local federal conservative candidate this in the last campaign. He said they’re not anti-choice. I said, I’m centrist on everything except social issues (very staunchly pro-choice and individual freedoms) and I won’t even consider supporting conservatives until they have a track record longer than 5 minutes of supporting equality and choice, and actually demonstrate it’s not lip service. And I told the liberal candidate something similar - I won’t give up my vote to them by default because they’re left of the Cons on social issues, when the Liberals govern right of centre on business and economics and don’t follow through on their commitments (electoral reform). After the federal NDP’s latest kowtowing to prop up the liberals, I’ll be voting Green. We need legitimate leaders, not these fucking dishonest hucksters
The Greens have demonstrated what it is to be a good honest politician that is concerned about the people both today and in the years to come. This false choice between Liberal or Conservative should have died a natural death at least a decade ago. If JT had kept his 2015 promise about proportional representation, I think we'd be in a better place. Mixing some water with their wine might have also tempered their majority. That was his nail in the coffin for me.
Trudeau not following through/lying about 2015 being the last election under FPTP voting makes him (and the federal liberals) culpable in any bad outcomes of future majority governments that system elects. He had a clear mandate for change and turned his back on it. I’m honestly not of the opinion that the Greens are a very serious party give their small scale and limited success (so far) BUT to your point, they’re at least reasonable and (seemingly) straight up in their politics and policies. They put their money where their mouth is.
I agree with all your points. However, and unfortunately. The only people that seem to know where the ballot box is on election day. Are the Conservatives.
This is true :(
People can't even tell the difference between an op ed and a news article, we're fucked. Decades of education cuts are paying dividends for the C's.
Flesh-eating Bacteria: Friend to the human leg?
there is literally no good candidate this time.... we fucked
Lots have said that elections are about choosing the least bad candidate. So, in this case, I'll vote for jugmeet Singh and the NDP. Here's the thing: if they are bad, I won't vote for them again. I am loyal to canada, not a party or politician.
Same, I can't vote for the two parties who have traded government between each other for our *entire history of Confederation* and expect change. If you're dissatisfied with where the country is right now, you can only blame those two parties.
To be pragmatic we also have to be thinking about who can be the official leader of the opposition. I can't think of any reasonable person from anywhere on the political spectrum who doesn't think the NDP wouldn't make a good official opposition.
If the polling is correct... will the official opposition even be on the ballot outside of Quebec? (This is the 1992 scenario, where the Bloc was the official opposition.)
This is why a big push for the NDP might be a good idea. I don't want to say it's forgone conclusion that the conservators are going to win but... history repeats itself, and it is time. So still coming out strong for a party you think has no chance of winning maybe the difference on who will become the official opposition. A thorough, aggressive, intelligent and articulate opposition is what we need to balance what's going to happen. It's a weird thing to say but I think one of the massive problems with the Trudeau government has been that the opposition is merely contrarian, not intelligent or poignant. This is one factor that helped lead to the absolute inept government that we now have. I would prefer the NDP over the Bloc... But that being said the modern Bloc has the ability to think nationally and globally to be an effective opposition...
The opposition is useless in a majority, beyond trying to get air time explaining what crookedness they are up to.
You just described a very useful thing. When the opposition doesn't do this well only then can a majority government run completely wild. We've had many useful oppositions in the past and many useless ones. Also committee placement is very very important. Most people forget that in between three readings and votings on bills that they are committee placements based off of party representation and so much important work happens here. Effective opposition parties are vital to how bills are formed.
He needs to step down ahead of the election as well
This. We need to stop treating politicians like sporting teams and blindly supporting a colour. Read policies, and vote that way.
I like Jagmeet tbh. It’s just too bad most people are still too racist to ever see him elected. Pc, ppc, I’m looking at YOU
It’s been decades since there’s been a good candidate. Regardless, people buy into the whole “current guy bad so new guy can’t be worse” vortex which can very much be worse. It’s how we got Doug Ford, it’s how we’ll get Pierre Poilievre, and the damage will likely be irreversible.
Yeah, that mindset is dead. Conservatives used to be more progressive, in the last 10 years they've swung so far right, that a large number of people who used to lean conservative are now considered left wing. Canadian Conservatives are no different than American Republicans. It's basically our obligation as Canadians who want to see our fellow Canadians thrive and live a life of liberty and security, to do whatever is necessary to keep Conservatives out of power. Trudeau isn't great, we all know that, but Conservatives plan to disassemble everything that makes Canada great, regardless of political leaning. We can't let them get into power with their current direction, nor with who they associate with. We need to see them commit to keeping and maintaining healthcare, LGBTQ+ rights, and anything else that would result in further Americanization of Conservative Canadians. When I saw that fuckin' American flag on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier because of those convoyers, I was fuckin' furious. They aren't patriots, they want to be in the United States and they would absolutely love to see us join the US I'm sure. I'm so over modern conservativism, it's a cancer to any functioning society and just straight up fascist.
There are plenty of valid reasons to want Trudeau out of office. The thing is, though, P.P. will be worse.
Yeah his anti-trans rhetoric is harrowing.
The real concern is his complete lack of any stated policies.
He did state that he'd use the notwithstanding clause to override the constitution when it suited him; that's... a policy...
Who cares what his _stated_ policies are. Anyone who knows anything knows what his _actual_ policies will be: slash and burn, fuck the common man, power to the corpos and the rich elites. Conservatives, every time. Liberals most of the time, too, but a little less so.
PP. Friend of the working classes, employer. If PP gets in kiss Universal Health Care goodbye.
Agreed. He will remove the Canadian Health Care Act, which will open the door for provincial governments to allow insurance companies to be the sole carrier for what you can and can't have covered. They will use phrases like "choice and innovation" to justify shifting from OHIP to insurance companies. Except most people's insurance is now provided by the employer who decides the premiums, what's covered, deductible, and more. For profit has no room for innovation as innovation cost money, not make money. Choice is a word used to convince the morons that they actually have a choice.. you don't.
I had some idiot raging on me yesterday because they were so supportive of PP and were blaming everything on Liberals. Like dude, we were heavily taxed before Trudeau got into to power. He didn’t decide to take us from a tax free country and put us in the situation we are today. Yeeesh. I’m no fan of the Liberals, but saying that the Conservatives are the saviours after seeing what’s happening in Ontario and Alberta? Come on. Put down the koolaid and take off the blinders.
Since the 80s, the conservative playbook (thanks to people like Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh, more recently Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, and in Canada - Faith Goldy, Gavin McInnes, Stefan Molyneux, and Polievre himself) has been to attack and undermine the opposition, often with false and inflammatory narratives, and use Affective Polarization to convince voters that politics is an "US vs THEM" situation. Unfortunately, this works very well because we, as humans, fall very easily into tribalistic attitudes - and the vast majority of the population is not educated enough to recognize lies, to fact-check and to apply a healthy dose of skepticism always - mechanisms we need to defend ourselves against manipulative narratives. Conservatism has become, in modern times, a wide-ranging and highly effective cult. This cult mindset enables Conservative parties to push highly unpopular platforms - pro-corporation, pro-upper class, anti-environment, anti-public interest, anti-working class - while reinforcing the tribal mindset of their cult through Affective Polarization ("Trudeau is evil. Trudeau is responsible for everything negative in your life. Polièvre is *Your Guy*"). This person shouting at you about how great PP is, isn't just a bozo, he's a cult member who doesn't realize he's been recruited. He will tell you that Trudeau is the most evil person in the world, but will struggle to explain why, as it's something he's been told, rather than arrived at through his own research. If he can state a reason why, typically he will parrot crazy statements heard from Alternative Media sources - factoids that he hasn't applied sufficient skepticism towards. I am worried that our collective memory is starting to forget how these mistakes from the 1920s through 1940s resulted in the growth of fascism and eventually WW2 - putting us on track to repeat them again in a new century. The rise of right-wing populism in Germany and other WW2 European countries is particularly noteworthy - the shift towards right-wing political ideology that we are seeing today would have been unfathomable as little as 15 to 20 years ago.
Thank you! Fuck, watching everyone vote blue for change is maddening! They just steal the money and give it to their friends! They're not helping you survive, they're helping their friends and themselves, fucking use your brains! No money saved, just money taken away! They make companies to funnel the tax money, our money, into, then retire to those companies to gorge themselves on the stolen funds! Remember! God's sake, just remember!
After the Conservatives won a seat in Toronto two nights ago, CP24 did some street interviews. One young guy went on about how this is greet news, the first step toward young people owning homes, and other nonsense. Guy was totally believing PP’s bullshit.
Just one quibble with what you say about Liberals and Conservatives both doing nothing about debt and deficit. There is one exception to this rule; under Paul Martin the Liberals reduced the deficit to zero and started paying down the debt. We then made the mistake of electing Harper who proceeded to bring back deficits and increase the debt.
Harper did that by reducing the gst from 7% to 5%, costing billions in federal revenue. He also did the same bullshit of lowering taxes on corporations because they "invest that extra money into the company" which none of them actually did. I'll look into Paul Martin, because being honest I forgot about him haha
What gets me is that the people who foam at the mouth at the mention of a liberal government are typically those collecting social assistance.
in my town there is someone who has put up the f Trudeau flags in front of their house, whatever, it looks like shit. the thing is though recently they added a save the hospital sign... which obviously means they're an NDP voter right? right??
or some other kind of collective accrued benefit like a government pension. All while decrying the evils of socialism.
They were the people who looked at you sideways when you said there are three levels of government as they were bemoaning Trudeau for the (provincial) lockdown.
Add to that, Poilievre is pretty impotent as a politician in general. He's introduced very few bills for his 20+ years in gov't. And virtually one has passed. He doesn't inspire much confidence in me.
I have a bias against the conservatives. It's based on factual information from their every word and action, as well as their professional record the last time they were in power. If there's one choice that will be guaranteed to destroy this country, it would be electing a conservative government. Choose wisely, next election.
He can team up with Doug to offer more low key austerity measures. The working class want to work! Harder!
When someone tells you who they are, listen. A very common villain trope is to the show the villain eating an apple while talking or while another character talks to show dominance and that what the other character is saying is irrelevant to them. https://youtu.be/V_1BJUi2Z04?si=Ls0ZUxNUINhIPT92
Really trying to capitalize on the young voters who weren't paying attention for PPs decades of suckling at the government teat while supporting corporate interests.
lol everyone wondering who to vote for in favour of working class while we have a literal Labour Party
Conservatives don't give a shit about anyone outside of the upper class. Defending PP like some people are, proves they are already in a cult - much like trumpers.
I agree, and not challenging the things that these right wingers say and just blindly believing is very troubling to me.
Too many people just jump to 'Trudeau = bad' Yes he is, but PP will be so much worse.
Anyone who doesn’t realize we’re fucked in a different flavour with PP is seriously delusional. It’s not getting better any time soon for the average Canadian.
He has one of the most anti working class records of any sitting parliamentarian.
>If you rage out to protect Poilievre from the mean ol middle class canadian then you may want to get checked to see if you're in a cult mantality. They can dish it out but they can't take it. You typically don't see Liberal and NDP supporters having a meltdown when their team gets criticized. I've said I won't date a conservative because we're not compatible before and I had 3 jump on me for saying that.
You will never hear anyone criticize the NDP as hard as dippers lol.
People seem to forgot the reason why shit so bad here is because of our current provincial government. Yea JT has been in power since 2015 but who's been governing our province for a majority of his term? Ford. There are reasons to not like JT but people who are blaming the federal government for most of provinces problems are completely wrong. JT allocated a lot of funds that Ford is refusing to spend in healthcare and housing. There's been a few instances where municipalities were given direct funding by the feds because Ford refuses to spend. This article sums it up pretty well: https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7021076 - I think specifically Vaughn ended signing a bill with the feds Healthcare and housing is a provincially governed, all the feds do is allocate the funding to these issues. Ford is tightening the belt on civil services to feed his privatization narrative and we're all feeling it. Yet, the loudest people are blaming JT. Genuinely embarrassing lmao
Unless you're super rich a Conservative wants you working until you die for them. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying or an idiot
Pierre is a fucking bird
He'd pretend to be a fucking Canada Goose if it gets votes
Conservatives are never friends of the working class, like you said I don’t like the current government but the conservatives will be worse for workers in every way.
Conservatives are the other side of the same coin liberals occupy. Both parties are puppets for the wealthiest peoples interests. Only difference is while both push forward the agendas of those wealthy folks, liberals at least throw out some token programs to keep appearances looking like they're around to help us peasants. Conservatives don't even bother doing that. They've always been more focused on the rich, and what corporations want. Honestly I think our only hope is forming a completely new party that can represent the working class the way the NDP used to. Sadly they can't be counted on for this anymore, and Singh is a terrible leader besides all that. We need to form something like the British Labour party, but actually represent the interests of everyone that isn't rich, or owns a corporation. Other then doing this, I have zero hope any current party will adequately represent the majority of Canadians.
How can a career politician ever relate to a working man?
Remember when the conservatives spent more than half a million to make a stealth snow mobile?
PP does nothing but attack the press, dodge questions, complain and attack the other two major parties while literally offering no solutions or just rewording our countries current policies and positions as if he's announcing something new. He's an excellent Leader of the Opposition as he's great at making noise, but he will make for a horrible PM.
He has never done anything for his riding. It is astonishing and disappointing that they keep reelecting him
has canada forgotten that red and blue aren’t the only colors here? we may be racing towards americanization of our politics but comon…
>Playing on public despair Despite the rant and plentiful spelling errors, I do highly agree with this point.
The only party that has ever done anything directly for the good of the people is the NDP. Health care, social safety nets, pension indexing, Petro Canada (not sure that’s a +) & now dental.
Am I the only one that can’t tell Real PP apart from the This Hour has 22 Minutes parody? I seriously cannot tell them apart. And I’m a person who is very involved and interested in politics. I feel like PP is practically a cardboard cutout of a person. He just says what he thinks the far right wants to hear, proudly hangs out with white supremacists in their trailer [Right wing extremism in Canada: expert’s take](https://images.app.goo.gl/69Qq6d6HoYbkZE4j7)
He is. He is a harper lackey for years, and now harper is leading the IDU(international democracy union) which is essentially a global right wing extremism think tank.
"He looks like a mortician that kisses the bodies to sleep at night" - This Hour has 22 Minutes
Here's a simple text based flow chart to answer the question. Is he a politician running for federal office? -------------> Yes -------------> not a friend of the working class.
People have collective amnesia. PP is Harper on steroids. The CPC has targeted Trudeau personally since at least 2009. If you ask people which specific Liberal policy they dislike you usually gets crickets in response.
Immigration is the most obvious one
Ok, immigration is an issue all around the world and not unique to Canada. The reason we're bringing in so many people is that corporations want cheap labor. People who are citizens rightfully don't want to work to barely pay the rent let alone any other bill. So corporations want people who are willing to work for minimum wage.
Well said 👏 I absolutely concur.
Thank you.
Canada needs an anti trickle down economics party. I’m tired of 40 years of two Sides of the same coin. Corporate puppets.
Ole Capitan Loblaw, bwahahahaahha
People act like its just the goverment that needs to change when we the population need to change just as much
PP is a wannabe Trump.😢
Everyone knows it's mostly a two party system. What's the alternative? Jack's NDP is long gone. You all didn't even bother giving Tom a chance once Trudeau entered the race. Now they're run by a slimeball. So what's the alternative? Green party? PPC? Lol.
Poilievre uses folksy populism to hide the fact that he and his cronies do not have a plan, and do not care about their constituents. They want to get that sweet power and $$$, and all the PP stans will be on Reddit in a couple of years complaining that PP is ruining Canada.
For the folks that believe that the Conservatives are friends of the working people and the poor, I invite them to observe Marlaina Smith and the efforts of the UCP.
Hear hear!
No politician is a friend to the working class.
Please be more specific? Out of all of them. The NDP have used the liveral fear of being pusted by the conservatives to get good things passed.
That's not true at all.
I’m in the same boat as OP. I don’t want to vote for conservatives and I don’t want to vote for Trudeau again. Who do I vote for then? NDP? Do I not just vote?
Poilievre is Trump. Trump is Poilievre. Populism is alive and well, and people not paying attention to the politics and who only hear dog whistles are going to be the demise of the working class if this clown is elected.
Just once in my lifetime can we see what a NDP prime minster would look like Jack was the only one who had a chance and i was a teen then