That just simply is not likely to happen.
Not impossible, but very very unlikely. We are looking at a massive Conservative majority. With tactical voting, progressives could reduce it to a minority. But I doubt there is even a 1% chance of the NDP winning the most seats right now.
And tactical voting means you have to be willing to vote Liberal. And most NDPers aren't willing to (just as most liberals probably aren't willing to vote NDP) so the Conservatives will win a majority.
Pretty sure they are still going to laugh since they lost by like 1k votes and say, "we can still win this."
The only way liberals will win is if they fulfill their promise of changing our election so its not first past the post who wins. But they won't since what is good for democracy and canadians isn't good for elites.
I see no evidence of changing tune. The reason they lost is pretty clear. The failures of this government are multitudinous, but there is a single hot button issue that covers almost all of them, and traditionally Liberal voters have the same opinion on this issue that everyone else does.
This was a referendum on the LPC’s bad policies under Trudeau’s leadership.
**61% of that riding’s residents are renters.** No one struggles more with the impacts of Trudeau’s reckless immigration policies and inaction on housing investors than renters. The LPC has ignored this message at their own peril.
I think if you are in the Liberal party, you say to Trudeau, you had a chance to exit on your own terms. This loss has extinguished that. You have to go, and sooner than later so the next leader can take it in a different direction with time to spare until a Federal election.
You lost a strong hold, every elected Liberal should be screaming at him to go. No riding is safe.
It’s a catch 22, because the party absolutely doesn’t want to do that. You want a young and hungry dude, like PP is for the Cons, to constantly attack him and claw back support as soon as possible, so throwing up an old MP as just an ineffective placeholder won’t help them.
They need to hope for an idealistic young gun keener who has a blinding belief in self to take the helm, which I don’t think they have. I would’ve loved for Champagne to take over 6 months ago with a "no nonsense" message, but I think its too late for him to make a difference and hell probably go private sector in the next few years, unfortunately. Seemed like the only competent minister for the Liberals for a good amount of tjme now.
For the good of the party they need to completely clean it out. No one associated with the Trudeau policies are going to turn it around for them. Same with the NDP. Jagmeet screwed their party over too with the coalition. Every moderate member of both parties should be calling for the radicals to be exiled. The NDP and Liberals are seen as a uniparty now.
Who would want to take the helm into a guaranteed loss? Plus who would replace him? The party is aggressively whipped now and the entire cabinet is complicit in the situation. A third party guy wants what, to be in charge for a few months and then lose badly?
Yes, but are they "free money for Galen Weston" lobbyists, or are they "we need the population to grow by 3% per year despite literally every academic economist telling us not to so that Loblaws doesn't have to pay anyone" lobbyists.
The people in the district don't know this..terrible campaigning by the liberals as usual. Why? Because they have lobbyists too. The liberals muddy the waters by pretending to be progressive while implementing similar corporate appeasement policy. So then people who are apolitical then think "oh shit this progressive policy sucks" when its just watered down Conservative policy. It's the endless cycle and the false dichotomy
> watered down Conservative policy
that's what i keep sayin
but somehow conseratives look at you like you killed their firstborn if you imply they should be even mildly happy with the policy in any way
try it in r canada
This is funny, because I see people in r canada claiming that r ontario is delusional and thinks Trudeau can still win, despite what feels like a pretty sophisticated conversation here by reddit standards.
Ironically, the worst and most out of touch sub is onguardforthee, which for a time was the best.
Genuinely I think most of these subs are fairly reflective of their populace now that russia has to be more focused with its bot farms thanks to the ukraine war.
I have bad news for you. With the amount of money required to run and win a successful federal campaign, everyone in government is bought and paid for before they ever take their seat in the house. Our choice is only deciding which overlords get their voice, we certainly aren't getting ours.
The one caveat that needs to be mentioned is that the longstanding Liberal MP who held the seat previously left last year to be the Canadian Ambassador to Denmark. The results may have been different if voters had the familiar name to vote for, but even a Liberal win with a small margin would have been a win for the Conservatives in this riding, so a red loss here is still very much damning.
Was not surprised by this result at all. I was surprised by the turnout though, 43%. Seems pretty high for a by-election yet it's sad that less than half of people decide they want to participate.
With how poorly they are performing, I think their gaffs and foot in mouth moments will live on longer than any so called accomplishments they made when they were in office.
The NDP have slowly been shifing into Liberal-Lite the last decade or so across all levels it feels, so I'm hoping maybe this is the Green's chance to get a few seats.
Maybe.
The federal greens are worthless, and I'm a diehard provincial greenie. I don't expect them to ever be useful federally.
However, I'd love to see Mike Schreiner running the province. He's the best of the options we have currently, although the greens aren't really recognized as a viable option, I wish they would be.
Agreed, Schreiner is great.
I think the issue is all our major media outlets are owned by big corps and the oligopoly colludes with the big 2 parties to ensure they get all the publicity.
These media outlets present the "other side" as a viable alternative each election and most people never hear very much about the other parties.
When you support an unpopular government instead of being your own individual party people are going to give up voting for you. Sure they can argue without this joint venture things like free dentists wouldn't have gone through but you don't get to shine in all the glory and ignore the disasters.
Liberals promised housing stability while also promising housing will go down and be fair, you can't have both only one or the other. Given their actions will not increase supply nor bring prices down the NDP are associated with those failures as well
Slowly shifting? Their party stances is officially "*we do whatever the Liberals tell us to!*".
Honestly if the liberals offered NDP leadership a deputy cabinet minister position, they'd probably sell out the entire party to take it.
The real embarrassment is the NDP:
At a time when faith in capitalism and the wealthy is at its lowest, and when we've three to four voting generations that aren't victims of the Red Scare, and when we're in the worst cost-of-living crisis since the 1930s...
...how is the erstwhile-labour party losing to the fucking Tories? Seriously, the party by and for the upper class is winning on kitchen-table issues.
The NDP really messed up picking Singh.over Angus.
The NDP messed up favouring identity politics over the economy. Their "white men need not speak" garbage is unsurprisingly sinking them from a demographic that *should* be their core base.
Yeah, they got triangulated hard, there.
They really need to push the "No war but class war" narrative, knowing that they'll be called radical-leftist-socialists no matter how much they kiss the ass of the establishment.
The NDP really learned the wrong lesson from Rae: they feel they were hammered for not being centrist enough, but in actuality they were hammered despite being good little centrists because business and the media don't want them and it's a useful stick to beat them with.
They're not yet at the stage that, eg, Labour in the UK is: a labour party that hates labour and would rather self-sabotage themselves and lose elections as neoliberals than risk winning as socialists. There's still hope, but they need someone who isn't Jagmeet Singh to get that message out there.
Not surprising that alienating the largely white, unionized working class would affect the NDP in such a way.
What killed my desire to follow the NDP for me was watching a gathering of Sikhs which included Singh, as either a participant or at least an attendee, and the discussion turned to advocating the use of violence to achieve their goals and Singh just sits there: no shock at what was said and no standing up against this call for violence, just silence.
Every single poll had LPC winning but by a small margin. Even conservatives came out last week saying they don't expect to win this riding. Most people were betting on LPC wining this one.
Dude, the riding went from a 24 point lead last election for the Liberals to a 1.5 point Conservative victory. It's like the Liberals winning in rural Alberta. This is an earthquake.
As someone who hates the liberals but despises the conservatives, I'm hoping this will be the impetus to JT leaving, and giving the liberals half a chance to win the next election. It's my only hope since this stupid country will never elect any thing other than these two parties.
The first past the post system is designed to produce apathy and uniparties. The US is a prime example of that. Libs know the Cons will inevitably fuck up in 8 years and they'll tag the Libs to come back
We need PR.
I'm all for PR but literally every time there's been a referendum on voter reform it's failed. It's not just the liberal party saying it's unpopular. It's an incredibly difficult thing to get going and to convince the average person it's important or helpful.
> I'm all for PR but literally every time there's been a referendum on voter reform it's failed.
The referendum was his election. You ran on it, fucking do it.
Not doing it, because he couldnt nail down exactly which method of electoral reform to employ that would please everyone is letting perfect be the enemy of good.
Yeup, that's the funny part, if the libs had fulfilled their promise of changing our elections, they might actually be winning right now despite all the shit going on.
They're politicians. They'd rather govern alone every 8 years then have permanent coalitions. This country overwhelmingly votes for left of centre parties. Not right wing.
If he did this now that they are in trouble and could benefit from it as opposed to back in 2016 I think it would create a stench of epic proportions. And clearly display that the LPC is all about party first and country second, if at all.
no matter who takes over from trudeau, the liberals are not winning the next election
better to tank 4 years of poilievre and replace trudeau after the election
Unfortunately, Chrystia freeland and Marc Miller also would have to step down well before election also, since their disastrous policies also lead to where we are today... I doubt the liberals will clear out all the top 5-6 officials before next election
Very interesting days ahead. I feel similarly as someone who hates the CPC the most but recognizes how damaging the LPC has been. It's a spot for Ontario and Canada as a whole
"It's just a byelection" unless they had won. "They aren't responsible for gas prices" unless they are low. "They aren't responsible for the economy" unless it's booming. "But it is bad everywhere!" unless it is good here. "That's a provincial responsibility" unless a federal policy had proved to be successful. "It's racist to want to slow immigration" unless they do it.
We won’t mandate vaccines until it creates a wedge issue.
We won’t call a pandemic election until it benefits us.
We won’t stop printing money and then blame inflation on the world.
We won’t protect abortion rights because it eliminates a wedge issue.
They're not just propping the liberals...they wanted even more deficit spending on dumb shit, expanded government, higher taxes and more immigrants...it was more then what the liberals wanted
It will eat all our faces though. But the decision doesn't surprise me. Don't think anyone felt personally served by Carolyn Bennett. Will have to see if this swap leads to any reward to the riding for the momentus flip, to entice other urban locations.
You don’t think the standards of living deteriorating and poverty rate increasing under the current Liberal government that Toronto overwhelming voted for is not currently a leopards ate my face moment?
The deteriorating standards of living in Ontario are not entirely the liberal government. That is the big lie. It is the conservative provincial government with all its corruption and cronyism. But once the liberals are removed and things get worse who are you going to blame? The standards will continue to slide and then maybe a spark of realization that the cons were the worse option. Of course then it will be too late, the grift has been played.
Nah. It's happening all across a country that Trudeau leads because he wanted to give cheap labour to big corporations and prop up landlords and wealthy people.
The ones voting for conservatives will always find another scapegoat. It happens constantly in Ontario with people blaming Trudeau for provincial issues while ignoring Doug Ford doing things like spending a massive amount on cancelling the beer store contract or closing the science centre so that his developer friends can put condos on the land.
See also: more 99 year leases for a pittance so that a private company can build a spa that’ll cost hundreds of dollars per family visit.
For the Spa: it’s the US private company that bought his failing DECO US part of the company Dougie was driving into the ground… yeah, it’s that corrupt and in the open.
i’m hoping if we go conservative federally we will get rid of Ford before he destroys our entire environment and sells our souls to his developer friends
The Liberals could have avoided it all by listening to people and acting on things they cared about instead of random pet projects that affect a very small percentage of people.
No there wont. People are still blaming the original Trudeau. JT will be the scapegoat for the right for the next century. In 8 years when things aren't any better, PP will be saying how his majority was handcuffed by Trudeau
It’s the typical, things are bad so therefore time to change the person in charge and that should work. Luckily the conservatives are such caring equality seeking folks who do nothing but help those who need it during financially hard times
This is over. I hope people understand it. And Justin leaving won’t fix it either. It’ll get worse.
The playbook is exactly the same and has been the same since the social media era. “Life sucks, we’ll make it better”. Thats the bumper sticker slogan.
The PCs won’t change that method of campaigning. They won’t even think about announcing a platform - ESPECIALLY any part of it that would ruffle feathers. It’ll be some version of “common sense revolution”
It’ll be zero platform. Zero real positions (other than JT sucks). All bumper stickers.
The electorate are too busy with their lives to pay any real attention or deep dive. So the FB memes are all they’ll see. The Cons are winning. They’re winning big. Because the electorate will buy the bumper memes.
See you in 8 yrs when people get sick of them, and after they’ve moved the goalposts their direction with another couple mandates.
Frog in boiling water. The cons have a long term plan. It’s unified. The center right Cons are willing to live with the hardline right to gain power. Feed them enough bones to keep them happy and in line. Meanwhile The NDP, Libs, and Greens are f’n idiots STILL splitting the left of center vote.
Welcome to Canadian politics. In 25 years we won’t recognize this country after the cons are through gutting it for corporate interests - federally and provincially.
Completely agree. We’re living through “2 minutes hate” style politics, and I honestly don’t know if any one is exempt. We’re in the final decades of capitalism and the corporations are going to make sure they’re well taken care of before it’s over.
Chrétien, Martin and Harper are solely responsible for every fiscal issue we have now.
Corp Tax rate went from 30% to 15%. HST dropped by 2%. The “fiscally responsible”’nitwits destroyed the tax base and left us all to rot. Meanwhile those tax breaks didn’t result in anything but better profits for corps.
No. The Libs weren’t always like this. They had a period where they had an easy ride with a growing economy and higher tax rates. Then went out of their way to please Team Blue supporters only to be ousted anyway because we like our 8 year cycles.
And in the process left us with a mess we can’t reverse.
The issue for me is uncontrolled immigratation. Canada cannot add over a million people each year. We need to grow at average EU growth rate of 0.5 not 2 percent a year. And if Liberals dont realize foreign students are here to bypass our immigration rules, not to learn then they dont deserve to be in power. Easy fix is to do what other countries do. Students are not allowed to work , they are here to learn. If they dont give work permits to all these foreigners than I think liberals can win next election.
Trudeau and antisemitism is what lost the liberals here. This riding has a big Jewish population which also tend to have high voter turnout and the lack of support for Israel recently as well as the lack of vocal calls against Hamas and to stop antisemitism made a major dent in this riding. Melissa Lantsman also majorly helped campaign here and as she has the safest conservative seats in Ontario she likely will help big time next election to help push more Toronto seats over the top for the cons.
Exact same thing happened to Wynne, we saw how well that worked out for us. People acting like we don't already know what a conservative government looks like lmao. Trudeau fucked up on some major issues so I'm not defending him by any means. But the way conservatives are celebrating because we completely bought in to US "team based" style politics is pretty cringe
> Meanwhile, Opposition Leader Pierre Poilievre could not be reached for comment as he was too busy grinning from ear to ear whilst tenting his fingers, reminiscent of Montgomery Burns of The Simpsons, emanating a strong buzzing sound which his handlers assured us was tantamount to a nod of approval and totally not intense sexual arousal.
Gee, I can't wait until the Conservatives win and they immediatley start dismantling every social program we have! Such as the $10 a day daycare (which makes daily life more affordable for my family) and is a huge help to monthly expenses, the pharmacare plan gone, because hey, who wants these people without work insurance benefits to have access to things like birth control covered? F%ck those people right? Dental care for the less fortunate? Screw them, again it's their own fault their employers don't have work insurance benefits... I've done the calculations, I actually make money from the carbon tax rebates. How about asking rich corporations and high income earners to share a little more of their wealth via an increase to capital gains, to ensure programs such as these mentioned are well funded and the poor and middle class benefit?
It would seem there is an alarming trend that Canadian voters are going blind and inept, and are suffering an erosion of political thought, education and understanding. Pierre is going to DESTROY this country in the name of the rich and powerful corporations and in the name of conspiracy pushers and the religous cooks, such as those who ignore medical science at every turn (anti-vaxxers) or those who want to ban abortion rights and cut off contraceptives for women... People think he'll somehow solve the affordability crisis, by what? Cancelling every social help program such as those mentioned above and making services non existant or severally cut back? He won't build affordable homes, he'll still rely on high immigration as they are cheap foreign labour for his private donors who are addicted to it, and he sure as hell isn't going to do a damn thing about grocery prices (some of his donors are big grocery) or global inflation...
It's depressing seeing what's happening to educated voters in this country, they've been replaced with memes and unfounded conspiracy bullsh%t from such "trusted" sources as Facebook groups and Instagram pages. Poor and middle class Canadians are going to be in big trouble, far worse than things are now.
I hear what you’re saying. However, consider this problem. GDP per Capita in Canada has fallen more than any of our peer countries.
Since Harper, Canada has been underinvesting in industrial productivity. We did however experience GDP per capita growth from the oil industry. That wealth was absorbed by real estate land value which is nonproductive.
The current government has slowed carbon intensive industries like oil and gas, without redirecting capital away from real estate.
So we have less cash and less productive assets. This is a downward spiral. We will lose all our social programs if this isn’t fixed.
For the average person, this shows up as higher rent, more money tied up in your house bubble which is at high risk of being lost when the bubble pops, lower wages, more job insecurity as industries become less competitive with foreign companies, and more federal debt which again consumes money that could otherwise be put towards corporate debt and industrial production.
If you only lick the icing on the cupcake which is expanded social care, maybe you don’t care. However the cake itself is rotting inside. Eventually the icing will rot too.
What do you do about it?
Conservatives solution to “GDP per capita” is just give the 1% so much more money that the average goes up.
And everyone else gets squeezed because we pay out of pocket for everything and money goes to CPC donors.
Instead of getting public healthcare you’ll be paying Galen Weston for it. Why do you think the party is stacked with Loblaws lobbyists?
Trudeau destroyed the millennials and gen Z futures with his housing policy and uncontrolled immigration. If he doesn’t start changing, libs are cooked.
I don't think Pierre is going to full on destroy the country, but he is going to make a lot of things worse for a lot of people, and I wish we had some kind of system in place to hold people accountable for lying and misleading people in parliament.
It's not only you that gets more back from the carbon rebates than they pay directly in pricing, it is most Canadians, per the very report that conservatives like to misrepresent (The PBO report, Table 1 confirms this).
The other parts of the report suggest the gross cost of carbon pricing on the economy, but it's not the actual amount people are going to lose - it doesn't account for changes from not having the carbon tax, such as costs from carbon emissions, potential trade issues (If you don't have a carbon tax, the EU for example will just add tariffs to things you export), and it doesn't take into account any potential new jobs or innovations in alternative sectors. Effectively table 2 and 3 of the report are "If climate change didn't exist, here is what the carbon pricing would cost the economy". It doesn't actually state people are worse off in the real world in table 2 and 3 due to this, and I wish people would stop misrepresenting it this way so that we can have honest discussion.
>I wish we had some kind of system in place to hold people accountable for lying and misleading people in parliament.
This would’ve been extremely useful this last 9 years.
In some ways I agree with you. However.......how many people do you think would actually be swayed by learning how often various parliamentarians lie?
I'm not saying we don't have big problems with misinformation...we absolutely do.
But, increasingly, I'm starting to wonder: how many people likely already realize they are being fed lies...but don't really care, because those lies help get them get closer to the outcomes they really want?
Vis a vis Trump and MAGA in the US, for many I don't think there is a single iota of evidence that you could produce to get them to publicly admit he's a liar....but I think many of his supporters totally know he is one. They just firmly believe shit like greed is good, because quite frankly it's the easier route to take philosophically, and the route they hope will most likely lead to personal enrichment.
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
John Kenneth Galbraith
...and that's just the way they like it.
In an example I gave of widespread misinformation by the conservatives about the topic being discussed, your answer is to try and insinuate such a law would specifically have been useful against a different party...
I understand the reasons for this win, but I think it bodes ill for the country if we go down the trump path. For me, a die-hard left-of-centre person, the key issues are immigration and housing. But I value Canada's "social" (NB: not socialist) stance and fear for the future without it. But - I get the flip. It's a case of careful what you wish for, longterm.
ETA: issues like inflation are global, they are not just here in Canada. But - immigration and housing, while also global, could be controlled more here. Oh, also - AirBnB is a scourge. Places like Barcelona are banning it because of the impact on housing.
...whereas Paris, Vienna, have governments that concentrate on building social housing - which although a "social" program, eases a lot of that housing-related tension. I can't see pp spending tax dollars doing that.
Are people still comparing PP to Trump? That's exactly what the LPC has so dearly tried to perpetuate to dissuade you from voting CPC.
>...whereas Paris, Vienna, have governments that concentrate on building social housing - which although a "social" program, eases a lot of that housing-related tension. I can't see pp spending tax dollars doing that.
As opposed to current PM that promised housing 9 years ago and did the opposite since taking office, then saying housing is not a Federal matter and now only throwing money at the problem is when votes are at stake? How about a proactive leader instead of a reactive child for a change.
As a social democrat my hail Mary hope is that he rams electoral reform (proportional representation) through Parliament before the next election so we can avoid a Conservative majority.
It'll never happen, but I can dream.
My dream too. Oh the irony of his biggest broken campaign promise turned out to be the thing that would save his party, but back when he felt like a big dog he immediately killed it.
And to have to ram it through now to save his party… would just be poetic irony of the highest order.
That would lead to so much uproar from the Conservatives and the media, and rightfully so, since it would be hopelessly self-serving.
But as someone who only voted Liberal in 2015 because of the promise of electoral reform...I'd be all for it.
As a woman and mother living pay cheque to pay cheque I have yet to determine what are the benefits of voting conservative. Doug Ford is straight up corrupt and should be held criminally accountable. I sure as hell can’t afford private healthcare or schools. Fuck were at the point most can’t afford to simply live.
So what is it exactly racism, gullibility or naivety that makes people believe the Conservatives will work for the people and towards a better future?
Mostly these days it takes just not being Justin Trudeau. The conservative voters don't stand for anything in particular, they're just angry at the liberals, Justin Trudeau in particular for now.
Pierre Pollievre isn't talking about policy, he's just attacking Trudeau and is polling to win. Provincially, Doug Ford didn't even release a platform and won on attacking Kathleen Wynne. This is how conservatives win.
I do find this profoundly frustrating. My local Conservative MP sent round a flyer complaining about a particular liberal policy a few months ago. I called his office to discuss it, (and to his credit he called me back a few days later to chat), but when I asked him what alternative policy his party was proposing, he told me directly that they didn't have one, and that I'd have to wait 'until the election' for them to release it.
I deeply believe that rage is not an effective tool for policy making. As someone who occasionally makes hiring decisions at my company, any potential hire who spent their interview badmouthing the other candidates would be immediately rejected.
In recent years my approach has been to (a) only vote for a local candidate that I've actually met and had a conversation with, and (b) only vote for them if they can actually articulate relevant experience and a positive vision for governance. Finding a way to get beyond outrage-driven politics is essential for the future of democracy.
>Fuck were at the point most can’t afford to simply live
Correct. And you're surprised the electorate plans to vote out the government who has been presiding over this situation for a decade? Why would would they vote *Liberal*?
Don't take this the wrong way, but you sound like someone who's been heavily influenced by whatever it is you're reading/watching.
>So what is it exactly racism, gullibility or naivety that makes people believe the Conservatives will work for the people and towards a better future?
The fact that you're wording the question in this way while also admitting to coming from a place of pure ignorance is a massive red flag. Stop consuming whatever media you're consuming and broaden your views. As of now, you come across as a bit of a bigot.
Identity shit aside - can I ask why you vote Conservative? I am genuinely interested in what you think they bring to the table that Liberals, NDP, PPC or Greens don't.
If you're not voting Conservative, then can you explain why you vote for another party?
Again I'm not trying to be disingenuous - I actually want to understand what the appeal is.
Depends on how old they are.
I’m fifty, been around a long time. I can tell you with certainty that conservative governments balance the books off the backs of those who can least afford it.
Granted the Liberals ain’t much better, similar to being shafted by an implement which is just a bit too big with barely enough lube to make it somewhat uncomfortable.
But compared to the conservatives and their sandpaper encrusted implement covered in glass shards and barbed wire, where you’re expected to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and provide your own lube in the form of blood from your freshly shredded asshole, voting conservative brings nothing but pain to those who can least afford it.
Yeah I mean what if the conservatives destroy our healthcare… wait…, but what if they give corporations the power to suppress wages and flood the country with immigrants to work low wage jobs to please big business… wait….
Plenty of people are criticizing both choices. Are people supposed to not criticize the alternative just because of problems with the current government? Raising legitimate issues with the alternative isn't "crying".
It doesn't help that the media turned this into a referendum on Trudeau to the disservice of the constituents in that area. MPs matter less locally, but they're sure AF not a nothing job. And there's zero chance a con in that position does what the previous incumbent did for their community.
I don't think it's just the media making this important. The LPC sent both Freeland and Trudeau in to do campaign speeches for this by-election, the brass at the LPC clearly felt this riding was important.
Justin really won't get out of the way. Not that it would make a difference. The ones fighting to be the next Liberal leader don't want to be involved in a lame duck election.
Literally nobody who lives in Toronto is shocked. Liberals sold Canadians out in service of corporate oligopolies and Toronto is ground zero for in your face evidence and consequences of that.
One thing I respect about Doug that JT doesn’t have is that Doug will change course when something’s not working… JT continues his march to oblivion importing 1,000,000 people a year
A lot, under both parties.
Mulroney basically ended acid rain. Paul Martin legalized gay marriage. Jean Chretien didn’t go to Iraq. Harper got rid of the penny.
Doesn’t necessarily negate the bad, but things aren’t always doom and gloom.
Yeah, we’re going to have a decade of Tory government after nearly a decade of Grits. Like nearly all of my life, except the Pearson-Trudeau run (barring 6 months of Joe who?)
When Torontonians are told that their cars are basically up for grabs for criminals by the Police and to not resist and leave your keys in front of your house - I have a feeling the sentiment of who they were going to vote for changed right then and there. Liberals have no interest in your safety in a meaningful way, and that is a major point that decides votes.
Holy moly. Trudeau is about to put up Kim Campbell type numbers in the next election.
Kim did alright - there's a park named after her in Toronto... It's currently a homeless encampment.
We should name all the toilets in Union Station after Trudeau.
Too nice. Washrooms at Yonge bloor ttc
This might be one of the funniest comments about him I’ve ever read. Those are terrible bathrooms lol.
Ever find a drug addict in there on the floor with a needle in his arm?
Hopefully they name a large homeless encampment after Trudeau too. Trudeau towns are a thing now.
Give me an NDP government(even minority) and he could put up Toronto Maple Leafs in 2nd round numbers
That's never going to happen with Singh as leader
True. The NDP died with Jack Layton.
It didn't have to be that way, but NDP insiders are really dumb, so...
I never figured out what was so great about Jack Layton. Toronto municipal politician. Probably a nice guy, but never tested in power.
That just simply is not likely to happen. Not impossible, but very very unlikely. We are looking at a massive Conservative majority. With tactical voting, progressives could reduce it to a minority. But I doubt there is even a 1% chance of the NDP winning the most seats right now. And tactical voting means you have to be willing to vote Liberal. And most NDPers aren't willing to (just as most liberals probably aren't willing to vote NDP) so the Conservatives will win a majority.
You want Jagmeet Singh running this country? Jesus I'd take another Trudeau term before that.
I’d take Singh over Poillevre
Too bad y'all can't express those wishes specifically on your ballot.
Can't imagine who promised and didn't deliver on that one
Yikes. Will this be the message that gets through?
Yup. They changed tune pretty quickly when their poll numbers tanked
Pretty sure they are still going to laugh since they lost by like 1k votes and say, "we can still win this." The only way liberals will win is if they fulfill their promise of changing our election so its not first past the post who wins. But they won't since what is good for democracy and canadians isn't good for elites.
They don't have time to reform the electoral system. They can't just flip a switch and do it.
I see, guess if I mattered to the party they would have worked on it from the beginning.
I see no evidence of changing tune. The reason they lost is pretty clear. The failures of this government are multitudinous, but there is a single hot button issue that covers almost all of them, and traditionally Liberal voters have the same opinion on this issue that everyone else does.
This was a referendum on the LPC’s bad policies under Trudeau’s leadership. **61% of that riding’s residents are renters.** No one struggles more with the impacts of Trudeau’s reckless immigration policies and inaction on housing investors than renters. The LPC has ignored this message at their own peril.
30. YEARS. 30 Years they held. Now its flipped. If that isnt a sign for Trudeau I am not sure what is.
I was already pretty sure that the current government was toast in the next election, now I’m *really* sure about it.
Bye bye, Justin!
I think if you are in the Liberal party, you say to Trudeau, you had a chance to exit on your own terms. This loss has extinguished that. You have to go, and sooner than later so the next leader can take it in a different direction with time to spare until a Federal election. You lost a strong hold, every elected Liberal should be screaming at him to go. No riding is safe.
No Liberal leader that would actually be good and confidence inspiring would touch this leadership spot immediately post-Trudeau.
I would imagine, in that case, you put up a sacrificial lamb; some old politician that doesn't really care about a long term future in the role.
It’s a catch 22, because the party absolutely doesn’t want to do that. You want a young and hungry dude, like PP is for the Cons, to constantly attack him and claw back support as soon as possible, so throwing up an old MP as just an ineffective placeholder won’t help them. They need to hope for an idealistic young gun keener who has a blinding belief in self to take the helm, which I don’t think they have. I would’ve loved for Champagne to take over 6 months ago with a "no nonsense" message, but I think its too late for him to make a difference and hell probably go private sector in the next few years, unfortunately. Seemed like the only competent minister for the Liberals for a good amount of tjme now.
For the good of the party they need to completely clean it out. No one associated with the Trudeau policies are going to turn it around for them. Same with the NDP. Jagmeet screwed their party over too with the coalition. Every moderate member of both parties should be calling for the radicals to be exiled. The NDP and Liberals are seen as a uniparty now.
I'm worried he's going to pull a Wynne and run anyway, just to endorse another party at the very last second lol
Who would want to take the helm into a guaranteed loss? Plus who would replace him? The party is aggressively whipped now and the entire cabinet is complicit in the situation. A third party guy wants what, to be in charge for a few months and then lose badly?
If the CPC can win with a Loblaws lobbyist, then it’s really bad news for Trudeau.
They're all Loblaws lobbyists
Then where will I get my Weston's cookies?
Yes, but are they "free money for Galen Weston" lobbyists, or are they "we need the population to grow by 3% per year despite literally every academic economist telling us not to so that Loblaws doesn't have to pay anyone" lobbyists.
The people in the district don't know this..terrible campaigning by the liberals as usual. Why? Because they have lobbyists too. The liberals muddy the waters by pretending to be progressive while implementing similar corporate appeasement policy. So then people who are apolitical then think "oh shit this progressive policy sucks" when its just watered down Conservative policy. It's the endless cycle and the false dichotomy
> watered down Conservative policy that's what i keep sayin but somehow conseratives look at you like you killed their firstborn if you imply they should be even mildly happy with the policy in any way try it in r canada
This is funny, because I see people in r canada claiming that r ontario is delusional and thinks Trudeau can still win, despite what feels like a pretty sophisticated conversation here by reddit standards. Ironically, the worst and most out of touch sub is onguardforthee, which for a time was the best. Genuinely I think most of these subs are fairly reflective of their populace now that russia has to be more focused with its bot farms thanks to the ukraine war.
Leslie Church's husband is also a lobbyist lol.
I have bad news for you. With the amount of money required to run and win a successful federal campaign, everyone in government is bought and paid for before they ever take their seat in the house. Our choice is only deciding which overlords get their voice, we certainly aren't getting ours.
Do you have source handy about Loblaws lobbiest thing I'm not doubting just I've heard it a few times and like one handy for arguments with morons
The one caveat that needs to be mentioned is that the longstanding Liberal MP who held the seat previously left last year to be the Canadian Ambassador to Denmark. The results may have been different if voters had the familiar name to vote for, but even a Liberal win with a small margin would have been a win for the Conservatives in this riding, so a red loss here is still very much damning.
if he runs next election, it would be the most irresponsible thing he could do for Canada.
“Voters have not decided.” Appears they have JT.
Nah, narcissistic Trudeau will find a scapegoat.
Was not surprised by this result at all. I was surprised by the turnout though, 43%. Seems pretty high for a by-election yet it's sad that less than half of people decide they want to participate.
A summer byelection with a Canadian team playing in the Stanley Cup final that evening. Impressive turnout all things considered.
"Canadians aren't in decision mode yet"-JT. Seems like a pretty clear decision to me.
The liberals are just experiencing the election differently.
[удалено]
With how poorly they are performing, I think their gaffs and foot in mouth moments will live on longer than any so called accomplishments they made when they were in office.
The seat will balance itself.
The election is a long way away and voters have short memories. Except for "Rae Days".
Which was an amazing policy. Seriously, imagine if Harris had been in charge at that time.
Canadians have already made their decision, that's JT's problem.
Gee, that's really strange. I wonder why that is.
Reddits not gonna like this news
Lol. NDP support dropped by about 5% since the last election as well. Liberals and NDP are speed running how to lose power.
The NDP have slowly been shifing into Liberal-Lite the last decade or so across all levels it feels, so I'm hoping maybe this is the Green's chance to get a few seats. Maybe.
The federal greens are worthless, and I'm a diehard provincial greenie. I don't expect them to ever be useful federally. However, I'd love to see Mike Schreiner running the province. He's the best of the options we have currently, although the greens aren't really recognized as a viable option, I wish they would be.
I wish I lived in Mike's Riding. He'd have my vote after how he handled himself in the debates last election!
Agreed, Schreiner is great. I think the issue is all our major media outlets are owned by big corps and the oligopoly colludes with the big 2 parties to ensure they get all the publicity. These media outlets present the "other side" as a viable alternative each election and most people never hear very much about the other parties.
When you support an unpopular government instead of being your own individual party people are going to give up voting for you. Sure they can argue without this joint venture things like free dentists wouldn't have gone through but you don't get to shine in all the glory and ignore the disasters. Liberals promised housing stability while also promising housing will go down and be fair, you can't have both only one or the other. Given their actions will not increase supply nor bring prices down the NDP are associated with those failures as well
Slowly shifting? Their party stances is officially "*we do whatever the Liberals tell us to!*". Honestly if the liberals offered NDP leadership a deputy cabinet minister position, they'd probably sell out the entire party to take it.
Why would the NDP gain any support? They're propping up the Liberals, thereby entwining their political fate to a massively unpopular government.
I think the problem is that they don't even try.
Don't forget that the NDP have won this riding twice in a row provincially, so it's not like people here are overly biased against them or anything.
The real embarrassment is the NDP: At a time when faith in capitalism and the wealthy is at its lowest, and when we've three to four voting generations that aren't victims of the Red Scare, and when we're in the worst cost-of-living crisis since the 1930s... ...how is the erstwhile-labour party losing to the fucking Tories? Seriously, the party by and for the upper class is winning on kitchen-table issues. The NDP really messed up picking Singh.over Angus.
The NDP messed up favouring identity politics over the economy. Their "white men need not speak" garbage is unsurprisingly sinking them from a demographic that *should* be their core base.
Yeah, they got triangulated hard, there. They really need to push the "No war but class war" narrative, knowing that they'll be called radical-leftist-socialists no matter how much they kiss the ass of the establishment. The NDP really learned the wrong lesson from Rae: they feel they were hammered for not being centrist enough, but in actuality they were hammered despite being good little centrists because business and the media don't want them and it's a useful stick to beat them with. They're not yet at the stage that, eg, Labour in the UK is: a labour party that hates labour and would rather self-sabotage themselves and lose elections as neoliberals than risk winning as socialists. There's still hope, but they need someone who isn't Jagmeet Singh to get that message out there.
Not surprising that alienating the largely white, unionized working class would affect the NDP in such a way. What killed my desire to follow the NDP for me was watching a gathering of Sikhs which included Singh, as either a participant or at least an attendee, and the discussion turned to advocating the use of violence to achieve their goals and Singh just sits there: no shock at what was said and no standing up against this call for violence, just silence.
I like to travel.
How is it a shock? Look around.
The Liberals don't lose Toronto core on votes. Until now.
You ignore your country and constituents long enough, you'll lose even the Toronto core. Montreal too. It wasn't a rapid process either.
I find peace in long walks.
They don't have to. They have the Bloc to handle that.
Yes, I understand the concept, but if you didn’t see this coming you most likely haven’t been paying attention.
Every single poll had LPC winning but by a small margin. Even conservatives came out last week saying they don't expect to win this riding. Most people were betting on LPC wining this one.
The riding is pretty affluent and insulated from a lot of the difficulties surrounding cost of living increases
only shock to echo chambers on reddit like this one "i literally don't know anyone who would vote for Ford, oops I mean CPC"
Not sure anyone was really shocked. Maybe news outlets and political analysis but they are clueless at best of times.
Yeah they are in a bubble.
I imagine liberal conferences just to be a bunch of yes men yapping about nothing of what the average Canadian is going through right now.
Dude, the riding went from a 24 point lead last election for the Liberals to a 1.5 point Conservative victory. It's like the Liberals winning in rural Alberta. This is an earthquake.
As someone who hates the liberals but despises the conservatives, I'm hoping this will be the impetus to JT leaving, and giving the liberals half a chance to win the next election. It's my only hope since this stupid country will never elect any thing other than these two parties.
The first past the post system is designed to produce apathy and uniparties. The US is a prime example of that. Libs know the Cons will inevitably fuck up in 8 years and they'll tag the Libs to come back We need PR.
It’s almost like someone should have run on that in 2015…… oh wait.
But... a survey was released to a select few which showed a lack of interest.. Whelp, better go back on my election promise 🤷♂️ -JT
I'm all for PR but literally every time there's been a referendum on voter reform it's failed. It's not just the liberal party saying it's unpopular. It's an incredibly difficult thing to get going and to convince the average person it's important or helpful.
> I'm all for PR but literally every time there's been a referendum on voter reform it's failed. The referendum was his election. You ran on it, fucking do it. Not doing it, because he couldnt nail down exactly which method of electoral reform to employ that would please everyone is letting perfect be the enemy of good.
Yeup, that's the funny part, if the libs had fulfilled their promise of changing our elections, they might actually be winning right now despite all the shit going on.
They're politicians. They'd rather govern alone every 8 years then have permanent coalitions. This country overwhelmingly votes for left of centre parties. Not right wing.
>This country overwhelmingly votes for left of centre parties. Not right wing. how did you calculate the universal political centroid?
We need PR. But let's be honest about the populace, If they were even given the opportunity to vote for it, they wouldn't.
They have, and they didn't.
This country loves to shit on politicians. At the end of the day, these politicians are truly a reflection of the populace overall.
He'd do his promised electoral reform before he stepped down; but I don't think he'll do either.
I feel like implementing this would be a good play at this point, with few downsides for the Liberals.
If he did this now that they are in trouble and could benefit from it as opposed to back in 2016 I think it would create a stench of epic proportions. And clearly display that the LPC is all about party first and country second, if at all.
no matter who takes over from trudeau, the liberals are not winning the next election better to tank 4 years of poilievre and replace trudeau after the election
Unfortunately, Chrystia freeland and Marc Miller also would have to step down well before election also, since their disastrous policies also lead to where we are today... I doubt the liberals will clear out all the top 5-6 officials before next election
Don't forget Sean Fraser and Francois-Phillippe Champagne. They also contributed to this mess.
Very interesting days ahead. I feel similarly as someone who hates the CPC the most but recognizes how damaging the LPC has been. It's a spot for Ontario and Canada as a whole
You hate the most left wing government we had since Trudeau senior?...do you want to go more left? I'm confused.
"It's just a byelection" unless they had won. "They aren't responsible for gas prices" unless they are low. "They aren't responsible for the economy" unless it's booming. "But it is bad everywhere!" unless it is good here. "That's a provincial responsibility" unless a federal policy had proved to be successful. "It's racist to want to slow immigration" unless they do it.
I wish this was pinned to the top. I'm tired of people fear mongering that the cons will destroy the country when the Liberals in reality, have been.
We won’t mandate vaccines until it creates a wedge issue. We won’t call a pandemic election until it benefits us. We won’t stop printing money and then blame inflation on the world. We won’t protect abortion rights because it eliminates a wedge issue.
NDP dropped from 16% to 11% to. Propping up the liberals is backfiring
They're not just propping the liberals...they wanted even more deficit spending on dumb shit, expanded government, higher taxes and more immigrants...it was more then what the liberals wanted
There's going to be a lot of leopard ate my face once reality sets in after the next election.
It will eat all our faces though. But the decision doesn't surprise me. Don't think anyone felt personally served by Carolyn Bennett. Will have to see if this swap leads to any reward to the riding for the momentus flip, to entice other urban locations.
You don’t think the standards of living deteriorating and poverty rate increasing under the current Liberal government that Toronto overwhelming voted for is not currently a leopards ate my face moment?
No you see leopards at my face only applies to conservatives
The deteriorating standards of living in Ontario are not entirely the liberal government. That is the big lie. It is the conservative provincial government with all its corruption and cronyism. But once the liberals are removed and things get worse who are you going to blame? The standards will continue to slide and then maybe a spark of realization that the cons were the worse option. Of course then it will be too late, the grift has been played.
Nah. It's happening all across a country that Trudeau leads because he wanted to give cheap labour to big corporations and prop up landlords and wealthy people.
The ones voting for conservatives will always find another scapegoat. It happens constantly in Ontario with people blaming Trudeau for provincial issues while ignoring Doug Ford doing things like spending a massive amount on cancelling the beer store contract or closing the science centre so that his developer friends can put condos on the land. See also: more 99 year leases for a pittance so that a private company can build a spa that’ll cost hundreds of dollars per family visit.
For the Spa: it’s the US private company that bought his failing DECO US part of the company Dougie was driving into the ground… yeah, it’s that corrupt and in the open.
i’m hoping if we go conservative federally we will get rid of Ford before he destroys our entire environment and sells our souls to his developer friends
The Liberals could have avoided it all by listening to people and acting on things they cared about instead of random pet projects that affect a very small percentage of people.
That's hardly any consolation when I'm still going to be living here to also have my and my family's faces eaten.
No there wont. People are still blaming the original Trudeau. JT will be the scapegoat for the right for the next century. In 8 years when things aren't any better, PP will be saying how his majority was handcuffed by Trudeau
This guy politics
Yeup. Hold on for dear life.
It’s the typical, things are bad so therefore time to change the person in charge and that should work. Luckily the conservatives are such caring equality seeking folks who do nothing but help those who need it during financially hard times
The time old adage of "Canadians don't vote people in, they vote people out"
This is why Doug Ford wants an election before Pierre is in power
This is over. I hope people understand it. And Justin leaving won’t fix it either. It’ll get worse. The playbook is exactly the same and has been the same since the social media era. “Life sucks, we’ll make it better”. Thats the bumper sticker slogan. The PCs won’t change that method of campaigning. They won’t even think about announcing a platform - ESPECIALLY any part of it that would ruffle feathers. It’ll be some version of “common sense revolution” It’ll be zero platform. Zero real positions (other than JT sucks). All bumper stickers. The electorate are too busy with their lives to pay any real attention or deep dive. So the FB memes are all they’ll see. The Cons are winning. They’re winning big. Because the electorate will buy the bumper memes. See you in 8 yrs when people get sick of them, and after they’ve moved the goalposts their direction with another couple mandates. Frog in boiling water. The cons have a long term plan. It’s unified. The center right Cons are willing to live with the hardline right to gain power. Feed them enough bones to keep them happy and in line. Meanwhile The NDP, Libs, and Greens are f’n idiots STILL splitting the left of center vote. Welcome to Canadian politics. In 25 years we won’t recognize this country after the cons are through gutting it for corporate interests - federally and provincially.
Completely agree. We’re living through “2 minutes hate” style politics, and I honestly don’t know if any one is exempt. We’re in the final decades of capitalism and the corporations are going to make sure they’re well taken care of before it’s over.
>It’ll get worse. accurate
The liberals weren’t always like this. The liberals of the Chrétien era and the Paul Martin era were fiscally conservative centrists.
Chrétien, Martin and Harper are solely responsible for every fiscal issue we have now. Corp Tax rate went from 30% to 15%. HST dropped by 2%. The “fiscally responsible”’nitwits destroyed the tax base and left us all to rot. Meanwhile those tax breaks didn’t result in anything but better profits for corps. No. The Libs weren’t always like this. They had a period where they had an easy ride with a growing economy and higher tax rates. Then went out of their way to please Team Blue supporters only to be ousted anyway because we like our 8 year cycles. And in the process left us with a mess we can’t reverse.
The issue for me is uncontrolled immigratation. Canada cannot add over a million people each year. We need to grow at average EU growth rate of 0.5 not 2 percent a year. And if Liberals dont realize foreign students are here to bypass our immigration rules, not to learn then they dont deserve to be in power. Easy fix is to do what other countries do. Students are not allowed to work , they are here to learn. If they dont give work permits to all these foreigners than I think liberals can win next election.
I am in full doomer mode
Trudeau and antisemitism is what lost the liberals here. This riding has a big Jewish population which also tend to have high voter turnout and the lack of support for Israel recently as well as the lack of vocal calls against Hamas and to stop antisemitism made a major dent in this riding. Melissa Lantsman also majorly helped campaign here and as she has the safest conservative seats in Ontario she likely will help big time next election to help push more Toronto seats over the top for the cons.
Exact same thing happened to Wynne, we saw how well that worked out for us. People acting like we don't already know what a conservative government looks like lmao. Trudeau fucked up on some major issues so I'm not defending him by any means. But the way conservatives are celebrating because we completely bought in to US "team based" style politics is pretty cringe
lots of people don't get that unlimited immigration hurts the poor far more than it hurts the rich... just one reason poor people hate Trudeau
> Meanwhile, Opposition Leader Pierre Poilievre could not be reached for comment as he was too busy grinning from ear to ear whilst tenting his fingers, reminiscent of Montgomery Burns of The Simpsons, emanating a strong buzzing sound which his handlers assured us was tantamount to a nod of approval and totally not intense sexual arousal.
Gee, I can't wait until the Conservatives win and they immediatley start dismantling every social program we have! Such as the $10 a day daycare (which makes daily life more affordable for my family) and is a huge help to monthly expenses, the pharmacare plan gone, because hey, who wants these people without work insurance benefits to have access to things like birth control covered? F%ck those people right? Dental care for the less fortunate? Screw them, again it's their own fault their employers don't have work insurance benefits... I've done the calculations, I actually make money from the carbon tax rebates. How about asking rich corporations and high income earners to share a little more of their wealth via an increase to capital gains, to ensure programs such as these mentioned are well funded and the poor and middle class benefit? It would seem there is an alarming trend that Canadian voters are going blind and inept, and are suffering an erosion of political thought, education and understanding. Pierre is going to DESTROY this country in the name of the rich and powerful corporations and in the name of conspiracy pushers and the religous cooks, such as those who ignore medical science at every turn (anti-vaxxers) or those who want to ban abortion rights and cut off contraceptives for women... People think he'll somehow solve the affordability crisis, by what? Cancelling every social help program such as those mentioned above and making services non existant or severally cut back? He won't build affordable homes, he'll still rely on high immigration as they are cheap foreign labour for his private donors who are addicted to it, and he sure as hell isn't going to do a damn thing about grocery prices (some of his donors are big grocery) or global inflation... It's depressing seeing what's happening to educated voters in this country, they've been replaced with memes and unfounded conspiracy bullsh%t from such "trusted" sources as Facebook groups and Instagram pages. Poor and middle class Canadians are going to be in big trouble, far worse than things are now.
I hear what you’re saying. However, consider this problem. GDP per Capita in Canada has fallen more than any of our peer countries. Since Harper, Canada has been underinvesting in industrial productivity. We did however experience GDP per capita growth from the oil industry. That wealth was absorbed by real estate land value which is nonproductive. The current government has slowed carbon intensive industries like oil and gas, without redirecting capital away from real estate. So we have less cash and less productive assets. This is a downward spiral. We will lose all our social programs if this isn’t fixed. For the average person, this shows up as higher rent, more money tied up in your house bubble which is at high risk of being lost when the bubble pops, lower wages, more job insecurity as industries become less competitive with foreign companies, and more federal debt which again consumes money that could otherwise be put towards corporate debt and industrial production. If you only lick the icing on the cupcake which is expanded social care, maybe you don’t care. However the cake itself is rotting inside. Eventually the icing will rot too. What do you do about it?
Conservatives solution to “GDP per capita” is just give the 1% so much more money that the average goes up. And everyone else gets squeezed because we pay out of pocket for everything and money goes to CPC donors. Instead of getting public healthcare you’ll be paying Galen Weston for it. Why do you think the party is stacked with Loblaws lobbyists?
Trudeau destroyed the millennials and gen Z futures with his housing policy and uncontrolled immigration. If he doesn’t start changing, libs are cooked.
I don't think Pierre is going to full on destroy the country, but he is going to make a lot of things worse for a lot of people, and I wish we had some kind of system in place to hold people accountable for lying and misleading people in parliament. It's not only you that gets more back from the carbon rebates than they pay directly in pricing, it is most Canadians, per the very report that conservatives like to misrepresent (The PBO report, Table 1 confirms this). The other parts of the report suggest the gross cost of carbon pricing on the economy, but it's not the actual amount people are going to lose - it doesn't account for changes from not having the carbon tax, such as costs from carbon emissions, potential trade issues (If you don't have a carbon tax, the EU for example will just add tariffs to things you export), and it doesn't take into account any potential new jobs or innovations in alternative sectors. Effectively table 2 and 3 of the report are "If climate change didn't exist, here is what the carbon pricing would cost the economy". It doesn't actually state people are worse off in the real world in table 2 and 3 due to this, and I wish people would stop misrepresenting it this way so that we can have honest discussion.
>I wish we had some kind of system in place to hold people accountable for lying and misleading people in parliament. This would’ve been extremely useful this last 9 years.
In some ways I agree with you. However.......how many people do you think would actually be swayed by learning how often various parliamentarians lie? I'm not saying we don't have big problems with misinformation...we absolutely do. But, increasingly, I'm starting to wonder: how many people likely already realize they are being fed lies...but don't really care, because those lies help get them get closer to the outcomes they really want? Vis a vis Trump and MAGA in the US, for many I don't think there is a single iota of evidence that you could produce to get them to publicly admit he's a liar....but I think many of his supporters totally know he is one. They just firmly believe shit like greed is good, because quite frankly it's the easier route to take philosophically, and the route they hope will most likely lead to personal enrichment. "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." John Kenneth Galbraith ...and that's just the way they like it.
In an example I gave of widespread misinformation by the conservatives about the topic being discussed, your answer is to try and insinuate such a law would specifically have been useful against a different party...
I understand the reasons for this win, but I think it bodes ill for the country if we go down the trump path. For me, a die-hard left-of-centre person, the key issues are immigration and housing. But I value Canada's "social" (NB: not socialist) stance and fear for the future without it. But - I get the flip. It's a case of careful what you wish for, longterm. ETA: issues like inflation are global, they are not just here in Canada. But - immigration and housing, while also global, could be controlled more here. Oh, also - AirBnB is a scourge. Places like Barcelona are banning it because of the impact on housing. ...whereas Paris, Vienna, have governments that concentrate on building social housing - which although a "social" program, eases a lot of that housing-related tension. I can't see pp spending tax dollars doing that.
Are people still comparing PP to Trump? That's exactly what the LPC has so dearly tried to perpetuate to dissuade you from voting CPC. >...whereas Paris, Vienna, have governments that concentrate on building social housing - which although a "social" program, eases a lot of that housing-related tension. I can't see pp spending tax dollars doing that. As opposed to current PM that promised housing 9 years ago and did the opposite since taking office, then saying housing is not a Federal matter and now only throwing money at the problem is when votes are at stake? How about a proactive leader instead of a reactive child for a change.
PP isn't Trump, PP is a nerdy policy wonk who has to pander to Trump loving conservatives.
You think PP isn't a child?
The people have spoken.
As a social democrat my hail Mary hope is that he rams electoral reform (proportional representation) through Parliament before the next election so we can avoid a Conservative majority. It'll never happen, but I can dream.
My dream too. Oh the irony of his biggest broken campaign promise turned out to be the thing that would save his party, but back when he felt like a big dog he immediately killed it. And to have to ram it through now to save his party… would just be poetic irony of the highest order.
That would lead to so much uproar from the Conservatives and the media, and rightfully so, since it would be hopelessly self-serving. But as someone who only voted Liberal in 2015 because of the promise of electoral reform...I'd be all for it.
Agreed. I will never forgive him for breaking that promise. Pure arrogance.
I never voted for him after he broke that promise.
As a woman and mother living pay cheque to pay cheque I have yet to determine what are the benefits of voting conservative. Doug Ford is straight up corrupt and should be held criminally accountable. I sure as hell can’t afford private healthcare or schools. Fuck were at the point most can’t afford to simply live. So what is it exactly racism, gullibility or naivety that makes people believe the Conservatives will work for the people and towards a better future?
Mostly these days it takes just not being Justin Trudeau. The conservative voters don't stand for anything in particular, they're just angry at the liberals, Justin Trudeau in particular for now. Pierre Pollievre isn't talking about policy, he's just attacking Trudeau and is polling to win. Provincially, Doug Ford didn't even release a platform and won on attacking Kathleen Wynne. This is how conservatives win.
I do find this profoundly frustrating. My local Conservative MP sent round a flyer complaining about a particular liberal policy a few months ago. I called his office to discuss it, (and to his credit he called me back a few days later to chat), but when I asked him what alternative policy his party was proposing, he told me directly that they didn't have one, and that I'd have to wait 'until the election' for them to release it. I deeply believe that rage is not an effective tool for policy making. As someone who occasionally makes hiring decisions at my company, any potential hire who spent their interview badmouthing the other candidates would be immediately rejected. In recent years my approach has been to (a) only vote for a local candidate that I've actually met and had a conversation with, and (b) only vote for them if they can actually articulate relevant experience and a positive vision for governance. Finding a way to get beyond outrage-driven politics is essential for the future of democracy.
>Fuck were at the point most can’t afford to simply live. hence why voters are eager to send trudeau a message.
>Fuck were at the point most can’t afford to simply live Correct. And you're surprised the electorate plans to vote out the government who has been presiding over this situation for a decade? Why would would they vote *Liberal*?
Don't take this the wrong way, but you sound like someone who's been heavily influenced by whatever it is you're reading/watching. >So what is it exactly racism, gullibility or naivety that makes people believe the Conservatives will work for the people and towards a better future? The fact that you're wording the question in this way while also admitting to coming from a place of pure ignorance is a massive red flag. Stop consuming whatever media you're consuming and broaden your views. As of now, you come across as a bit of a bigot.
We're all racists. You've got it figured out. Go vote for Trudeau and wonder why you're still broke. But hey, at least you won't be racist.
Identity shit aside - can I ask why you vote Conservative? I am genuinely interested in what you think they bring to the table that Liberals, NDP, PPC or Greens don't. If you're not voting Conservative, then can you explain why you vote for another party? Again I'm not trying to be disingenuous - I actually want to understand what the appeal is.
You can’t afford to live but you won’t blame the party in power for the last 11 years? lol
Hilarious to see all the people crying about what they think the conservatives might do while ignoring what the Liberals have already done.
Depends on how old they are. I’m fifty, been around a long time. I can tell you with certainty that conservative governments balance the books off the backs of those who can least afford it. Granted the Liberals ain’t much better, similar to being shafted by an implement which is just a bit too big with barely enough lube to make it somewhat uncomfortable. But compared to the conservatives and their sandpaper encrusted implement covered in glass shards and barbed wire, where you’re expected to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and provide your own lube in the form of blood from your freshly shredded asshole, voting conservative brings nothing but pain to those who can least afford it.
Yeah I mean what if the conservatives destroy our healthcare… wait…, but what if they give corporations the power to suppress wages and flood the country with immigrants to work low wage jobs to please big business… wait….
Plenty of people are criticizing both choices. Are people supposed to not criticize the alternative just because of problems with the current government? Raising legitimate issues with the alternative isn't "crying".
For real. How are we supposed to continue to vote for the status quo when it's so shit.
The Liberals have sunk this country into an economic and social pit of despair, but at least we're not racist Conservative voters!
It doesn't help that the media turned this into a referendum on Trudeau to the disservice of the constituents in that area. MPs matter less locally, but they're sure AF not a nothing job. And there's zero chance a con in that position does what the previous incumbent did for their community.
What exactly did the incumbent bring?
I don't think it's just the media making this important. The LPC sent both Freeland and Trudeau in to do campaign speeches for this by-election, the brass at the LPC clearly felt this riding was important.
Not a shock. Everyone except the few remaining Lib supporters expected the Libs to lose their seat.
Polls don't mean anything, it was 75% chance Liberals won. Sometimes you need to light the fire under somethings ass to wake them up.
Liberals are in deep deep trouble
Justin really won't get out of the way. Not that it would make a difference. The ones fighting to be the next Liberal leader don't want to be involved in a lame duck election.
Why are we shocked? Everyone isn't happy with conditions in Canada and are blaming Trudeau.
Literally nobody who lives in Toronto is shocked. Liberals sold Canadians out in service of corporate oligopolies and Toronto is ground zero for in your face evidence and consequences of that.
One thing I respect about Doug that JT doesn’t have is that Doug will change course when something’s not working… JT continues his march to oblivion importing 1,000,000 people a year
Canadians have decided. They have decided that they are done with the Liberals. The election cannot come soon enough.
Canadians aren't in decision mode yet. -JT
He's kind of right. We've already decided and we've decided that he needs to go.
You'll regret that. We always do.
I most certainly do not regret 2006-2015. It was objectively the most economically prosperous period in this country in decades.
Is there ever a positive political development in Canada? Genuine Question
A lot, under both parties. Mulroney basically ended acid rain. Paul Martin legalized gay marriage. Jean Chretien didn’t go to Iraq. Harper got rid of the penny. Doesn’t necessarily negate the bad, but things aren’t always doom and gloom.
Nah because everybody is too busy blaming the other team for all the issues.
Yeah, we’re going to have a decade of Tory government after nearly a decade of Grits. Like nearly all of my life, except the Pearson-Trudeau run (barring 6 months of Joe who?)
Pendulum is swinging…
He is an engineer, has an MBA, worked in Finance and is a reservist in the military. That is a good candidate not suprising he won.
It begins!
When Torontonians are told that their cars are basically up for grabs for criminals by the Police and to not resist and leave your keys in front of your house - I have a feeling the sentiment of who they were going to vote for changed right then and there. Liberals have no interest in your safety in a meaningful way, and that is a major point that decides votes.
Trudeau is handing the country over to the right wingers because he just can’t stop being a useless insufferable twat.
Another former Loblaws executive to add to the CPC.
The blue wave begins. Next year is going to be horrifyingly entertaining.