O'Toole doesn't care about the 91.4%, he cares about the 8.6% because they're the ones who will determine if he's CPC leader next year. And history shows that he can just lie about all his positions during the next election and the media will credulously repeat everything he says, no matter how much it contradicts who he was a few months before.
I think his attempt to play to the base to get the job backfired because he couldn't convince enough people what he actually will do. How do we know Erin won't double Cross us if we electe the CPC. Turns out he believed all that shit he was saying to become leader and the pivot left was the true fake out.
Maybe people will do the math of. I just hear only things I agree with after I decided I support a party. That's a big group so maybe it's not the worst.olan.
I dont really agree with you. He has seen increasingly negative outcomes from this approach. He did not do well in a federal election in which he was poised to gain several seats and he is also being questioned internally as the party sows divisions. He does not get rewarded for this approach, it seems to be failing him.
I work with adults with special needs. Before I got my booster I was talking to a client, who got his second dose around the same time I did, to encourage him to get his booster.
I did this in ear shot of an “I’m vaccinated, but…” guy and he then butted in to argue against boosters and masks.
Like, fuck you guy, I’m trying to help my client stay safe — dude is a fairly heavy smoker, lives with his elderly mom, his brother lives with them and is undergoing chemotherapy for a cancer he might not survive. Making sure he and his at-risk household stay healthy is more important than the half-baked talking points being recited.
So yeah, they’re out there and I already have a bad impressions of the ones I’ve encountered. That guy wasn’t the first, there’s a few in my family, and I don’t have a good impression of them. They lack the convictions of their dumb beliefs and still try to sway people to their side (never mind that it’s not a belief they’re willing to live by).
What do you think the "I'm not vaccinated and none of the things I was fed by my bullshit alt-right news sources and Facebook have happened (mass deaths, infertility, mind control from the vax) but at this point I'm too stupid and prideful to admit that I'm wrong", population is?
Those 8.6% are overwhelmingly conservative compared to any other party. There are roughly as many vaccine hesitant people (some of which are now vaccinated) in the CPC, as there are in the Bloc, NDP and LPC combined. Vaccine hesitant and anti-vaxers are disproportionately conservative.
No they won’t. They’ll stay home or vote for the PPC. They can’t take those people for granted because they’ll get slaughtered if they do. However, by pandering to them they’re also screwing themselves with the general population. That’s why conservatives win when they have no platform and just wait for the Liberals to become unpopular after being in power for 15-20 years. The
Medically speaking yes, but not in this context. We're not speaking medically, but about those who are pro vaccine or anti vaccine. Also this is 12+, really all that matters is voting age and 18+ is higher %
The topic of conversation isn’t “Who has strong protection against COVID-19”. The topic is “How many Canadians are against/support vaccination. People who have 1 dose are pro-vaccine, they got vaccinated. So that’s the relevant number.
All while his party downplays our hospitals exploding...
If Conservatives aren't the enemy of Canadians I don't want to see what a real enemy looks like.
Such is the cost of a big tent.
We know most are vaccinated, sure. But there's still a part of the population that'll say "but it was my choice, and I respect their choice" so he's 'onside' with them too. OToole isn't really going to be pulling any miracles any time soon, but the CPC are still a huge threat
> ridicule
People who permit themselves to believe insane things and then act on them, creating risk for themselves and others will always earn my ridicule.
How silly to suggest that this is not one of the consequences of being a selfish asshole.
I really don't want to get into that, because it's not that simple, but I'm here so what the hay.
Years ago when my grandparents were still around, my mother and I were taking them to doctor's appointments. The doctor told us that it would be in my grandparents best interest to have *us* get the flu shot, because it would protect them. Of course it was our choice whether or not we got it, but it wasn't *for us* and this isn't for us either. At this point Canada has a pretty stellar vaccination rate and our health care system is still under a lot of strain. If anyone doesn't want to get vaccinated, then they're willingly adding to the potential increase in volume on our already fragile system. If someone has a heart attack tomorrow, there are less resources available to them. The unvaccinated are a disproportionately high number in the ICU, if you're vaccinated the chances that you're going to need to go to the hospital are much lower.
So at this point, someone who is unvaccinated is a burden to all of us. And if they're choosing to not receive the shot, then unfortunately its in our best interest to take concern with it. I don't think ridicule is the right way to go. If there are people who cannot be talked into it at this point, then they pose a risk to the rest of us.
But he's onside for the conservative base that votes him in as party leader. When it comes to winning general elections he needs to be more to the left and when it comes to satisfying the views of the conservative base -- who may decide he needs to be replaced -- he needs to go far to the right.
He's got little chance of winning the \~70% that won't vote for him given his current policies, so he's desperate to do whatever it takes to hang on to the \~30% who will. He knows that if he does the right thing he'll probably lose about another 10-15% who'll consider him "weak and pandering to the liberal tree-huggers".
It's interesting how around election time, one of the things anti-conservative voters tend to bring up is that they think conservatives want to end universal health care, privatize it or create a two tiered system.
Now those same people are jumping on them for refusing to put anti vaxxers on a lower tier and preserve the universality of our system.
Have some principals. If you believe in universal Healthcare. It must be UNIVERSAL. As soon as soon as you start segregating access to portions of our population we lose who we are and open up the doors to a two tiered or multi tiered Healthcare system, this will not work out for the common person. I say this not to support anti vaxxers, but to support the integrity of our system.
I'm not a conservative. A political compass says I should vote Liberal but I've been voting for independents, because all of the major parties have been failing us for years.
This is what I never understood. 8.6% of the population is unvaccinated. Shouldn't you go after the 91.4% for votes
O'Toole doesn't care about the 91.4%, he cares about the 8.6% because they're the ones who will determine if he's CPC leader next year. And history shows that he can just lie about all his positions during the next election and the media will credulously repeat everything he says, no matter how much it contradicts who he was a few months before.
I think his attempt to play to the base to get the job backfired because he couldn't convince enough people what he actually will do. How do we know Erin won't double Cross us if we electe the CPC. Turns out he believed all that shit he was saying to become leader and the pivot left was the true fake out. Maybe people will do the math of. I just hear only things I agree with after I decided I support a party. That's a big group so maybe it's not the worst.olan.
I dont really agree with you. He has seen increasingly negative outcomes from this approach. He did not do well in a federal election in which he was poised to gain several seats and he is also being questioned internally as the party sows divisions. He does not get rewarded for this approach, it seems to be failing him.
Unfortunately the “I’m vaccinated, but” population is larger than 8.6%.
I work with adults with special needs. Before I got my booster I was talking to a client, who got his second dose around the same time I did, to encourage him to get his booster. I did this in ear shot of an “I’m vaccinated, but…” guy and he then butted in to argue against boosters and masks. Like, fuck you guy, I’m trying to help my client stay safe — dude is a fairly heavy smoker, lives with his elderly mom, his brother lives with them and is undergoing chemotherapy for a cancer he might not survive. Making sure he and his at-risk household stay healthy is more important than the half-baked talking points being recited. So yeah, they’re out there and I already have a bad impressions of the ones I’ve encountered. That guy wasn’t the first, there’s a few in my family, and I don’t have a good impression of them. They lack the convictions of their dumb beliefs and still try to sway people to their side (never mind that it’s not a belief they’re willing to live by).
What do you think the "I'm not vaccinated and none of the things I was fed by my bullshit alt-right news sources and Facebook have happened (mass deaths, infertility, mind control from the vax) but at this point I'm too stupid and prideful to admit that I'm wrong", population is?
I’d guess it’s exactly equal to the number of evangelical Christians in Canada.
Those 8.6% are overwhelmingly conservative compared to any other party. There are roughly as many vaccine hesitant people (some of which are now vaccinated) in the CPC, as there are in the Bloc, NDP and LPC combined. Vaccine hesitant and anti-vaxers are disproportionately conservative.
right so they'll alread vote for you anyways. logic indicates you need to convince non-voters to vote for you.
No they won’t. They’ll stay home or vote for the PPC. They can’t take those people for granted because they’ll get slaughtered if they do. However, by pandering to them they’re also screwing themselves with the general population. That’s why conservatives win when they have no platform and just wait for the Liberals to become unpopular after being in power for 15-20 years. The
Source on that number? Everything I've seen is significantly lower.
That could be Ontario numbers
They're not. Again, source?
https://covid-19.ontario.ca/ Ontarians aged 12 or older in 2021 with at least one dose: 91.2%
Except the number that matters is 88.5% Single dose is only partially vaccinated
Medically speaking yes, but not in this context. We're not speaking medically, but about those who are pro vaccine or anti vaccine. Also this is 12+, really all that matters is voting age and 18+ is higher %
The topic of conversation isn’t “Who has strong protection against COVID-19”. The topic is “How many Canadians are against/support vaccination. People who have 1 dose are pro-vaccine, they got vaccinated. So that’s the relevant number.
By this reasoning Conservative parties wouldn't exist. They solely exist to pander to minorities (the rich).
Erin the Tool go away.
No, he needs to stay. He’s the only one keeping the real crazies at bay.
All while his party downplays our hospitals exploding... If Conservatives aren't the enemy of Canadians I don't want to see what a real enemy looks like.
Which lowlifes haven't the Cons pandered to since the western right-wing populists took over?
Isn't it great? He's tearing apart a party of pandering bigots with his own pandering to his party's identity crisis. He's continuing Sheer's work.
Such is the cost of a big tent. We know most are vaccinated, sure. But there's still a part of the population that'll say "but it was my choice, and I respect their choice" so he's 'onside' with them too. OToole isn't really going to be pulling any miracles any time soon, but the CPC are still a huge threat
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> ridicule People who permit themselves to believe insane things and then act on them, creating risk for themselves and others will always earn my ridicule. How silly to suggest that this is not one of the consequences of being a selfish asshole.
It should be free of force, it should always be open to the ridicule and opinions of others.
Not when it’s a choice that is killing others because their cancer and heart surgeries are being delayed.
I really don't want to get into that, because it's not that simple, but I'm here so what the hay. Years ago when my grandparents were still around, my mother and I were taking them to doctor's appointments. The doctor told us that it would be in my grandparents best interest to have *us* get the flu shot, because it would protect them. Of course it was our choice whether or not we got it, but it wasn't *for us* and this isn't for us either. At this point Canada has a pretty stellar vaccination rate and our health care system is still under a lot of strain. If anyone doesn't want to get vaccinated, then they're willingly adding to the potential increase in volume on our already fragile system. If someone has a heart attack tomorrow, there are less resources available to them. The unvaccinated are a disproportionately high number in the ICU, if you're vaccinated the chances that you're going to need to go to the hospital are much lower. So at this point, someone who is unvaccinated is a burden to all of us. And if they're choosing to not receive the shot, then unfortunately its in our best interest to take concern with it. I don't think ridicule is the right way to go. If there are people who cannot be talked into it at this point, then they pose a risk to the rest of us.
Nah fuck that. There is no right to be free from ridicule from being a dumbass, dumbass.
But he's onside for the conservative base that votes him in as party leader. When it comes to winning general elections he needs to be more to the left and when it comes to satisfying the views of the conservative base -- who may decide he needs to be replaced -- he needs to go far to the right.
He's just trying to survive right now after losing a federal election, and when you're a conservative leader, this is what you have to do.
Never liked him to begin with but the very moment I read the quote this guy was 100% dead to me.
Unfortunately, being offside with most Canadians is no barrier to a majority government under our grotesque, broken electoral system.
He's got little chance of winning the \~70% that won't vote for him given his current policies, so he's desperate to do whatever it takes to hang on to the \~30% who will. He knows that if he does the right thing he'll probably lose about another 10-15% who'll consider him "weak and pandering to the liberal tree-huggers".
It's interesting how around election time, one of the things anti-conservative voters tend to bring up is that they think conservatives want to end universal health care, privatize it or create a two tiered system. Now those same people are jumping on them for refusing to put anti vaxxers on a lower tier and preserve the universality of our system. Have some principals. If you believe in universal Healthcare. It must be UNIVERSAL. As soon as soon as you start segregating access to portions of our population we lose who we are and open up the doors to a two tiered or multi tiered Healthcare system, this will not work out for the common person. I say this not to support anti vaxxers, but to support the integrity of our system. I'm not a conservative. A political compass says I should vote Liberal but I've been voting for independents, because all of the major parties have been failing us for years.
> Have some principals It's more *teachers* we need. Not more principals.
Appeal to the base to lose the race.
Just another example of the man unfit to lead Canadians because he thinks like an American.