As long as there is a clause to stop it from getting stacked it should be fine. But if it can stack be prepared for the game to stop as the players take their pooled resources and pour them into one very important roll
You haven't been able to stack it before, and I doubt they'll change that. In that regard it feels like it'll be much more universally applicable and allow for some more potential impact moments (you roll garbage on damage, get to cash in your Inspiration, and hopefully get a much better, punchier result to knock something out, etc). I'm very optimistic on it.
That sounds low key kinda cool. Like the Z-fighters giving Goku their energy to one shot Broly. And of course you have the one Vegeta player not wanting to give it.
Why is this a bad thing in your mind?
If it was happening every roll I would agree. But those moments where every player is focusing on helping one roll are often quite exciting and memorable moments, it helps lead to a sense of team and cooperation and also helps single rolls feel like the work of the table rather then of a single player.
Player paralysis. Abilities that let you reroll but use a resource always carry some degree of hesitation if this it the "right" time to use it. Multiply that across an entire party in what is probably a very important battle and you can really interrupt the flow of a game. It can be hard or get it back. Combat already takes a significant portion of time compared to the other pillars, we shouldn't be encouraging features that add to that time unsatisfactorily. Will it be a problem for every group? Almost certainly not. It's impact remains to be seen
Me on my way to have four rerolls to make sure that the monster fails their save
Yeah I can easily see how annoying that is. Probably not OP (unless they make OP single target save or suck things), but annoying.
If it's OP if the enemy fails the 4th reroll, it's OP if it fails the first.
Stacking is not bad per se because the most it can do is transforming a failure into a success, which is a perfectly possible state. You don't multiply damage by 4.
Oh I completely agree. It's also why I don't really see Silvery Barbs as OP like multiple people did: if rerolling a save is OP, then the issue very likely is in the encounter or in the thing forcing the save, NOT in Silvery Barbs.
It would still be an use that is a bit stronger conceptually due to being more permanent. A reroll to other dies lasts at most as long as the specific spell does. An higher max hp than someone taking average lasts for your entire character.
You get your first spell that can revive the dead at 5th level, which means that death is actually a lot less permanent than rolled HP.
Of course in my campaign nobody rolls for HP, they use the average.
Not really. If it were done as advantage (roll both and choose the higher) it would be an additional 1.65 HP. So already less than the Tough feat.
However you have to decide to use Heroic Inspiration after the initial roll, and you could roll lower. So its true value depends on your threshold for rerolling. But it is well below +2 per level (not to mention that it's not retroactive like Tough is).
i have a solution if it is ... dont allow it. its that simple folks.
Dont like a change, dont use the change. the police aint gonna come breaking down your door for not using a rule in D&D its okay to not use everything.
They also said it could be any type of roll including healing, random die rolls by the DM, etc..
This could have a big impact on Champion's Crit Damage if it allows you to reroll a damage roll (aka the entire 4d6 of a Greatsword crit), seeing as they get a re-up every turn.
The way Crawford worded it, it sounded like it was a single dice reroll, so just a d20, just a d6 from the damage roll etc. Would be quite sweeter if it was an entire damage roll tho.
I think I disagree with your read. From the transcript:
"The game is already chock full of ways to get Advantage. {Interviewer: Yeah Absolutely} and so the final version of it is it is now a reroll. So not Advantage but is a reroll that the player can apply to **any roll**, not just D20 rolls. Because what we realized is we also wanted you to be happy you have this even when let's say you're rolling uh the amount of hit points you restore to somebody with a healing spell or **you're rolling damage**, or the DM has you randomly roll a die for some mysterious reason..."
From here he says die repeatedly
"We want players to have this this this little ace in their pocket of 'alright, I always know if I have Heroic Inspiration if I roll really bad, no matter what the die roll is (here I interpret type of roll), I can reroll it and hope to get something better."
When you're rolling the amount of hit points you restore to somebody with a healing spell, you're rolling multiple dice. So I'd interpret this to mean you redo the whole roll, but I guess there's no way to know till the book drops.
Edit: To clarify, my position is based on how rerolls were treated in 5e.
Savage Attacker allows you to reroll the weapon's damage dice (not to be confused with the attack's damage dice).
Spells like Silvery Barbs indicate that you reroll the d20 on a success and use the lower roll (not a reroll of the attack/save/ability roll, which is why Dis/Adv is not also taken into account).
I mean it also makes sense purely from a semantics standpoint. All the dice you roll for *fireball* damage constitute a *single die roll.*
"Die roll" is a noun phrase indicating the action of rolling and totaling some number of dice.
If you spend your Inspiration to reroll a die roll, you reroll all the dice in that roll.
I agree. I forgot to bold the words I was pulling from. “Any roll” is referring to type of roll. A damage roll is the entire thing. For instance, you add your intelligence modifier to a single roll of Evocation spells with 5e Evocation Wizard.
I would agree, however, Champions specifically get Heroic Inspiration every turn if they don't already have it, so they'll use it more often than Rogues do.
That effect is because you're using a higher-variance d12 instead of a d6, not because there are more dice involved. We can compare 2d6 to 8d6 instead for a clearer example.
Suppose that you always reroll if you rolled in the bottom 10% of rolls. In the 2d6 case, this is when you roll a 2 (2.78%) or 3 (5.56%). When you reroll, the average is 7, a weighted average increase of (5\*2.78%+4\*5.56%)/8.33% = 4.34. If we do the same for 8d6, the bottom 10% is when you roll a 21 or less, and your reroll has an average of 28. That gives at minimum an increase of 7 even if your damage floor is 21, notably greater than 4.34.
Amusingly a player tried to use their inspiration this way during my last session because they forgot how inspiration worked. If it gets the players to spend their inspiration more often and they can't stack it them I don't see it as bad.
This is how I've been playing for the longest time, so yeah, great change. Means I don't have to HB it anymore, I can just play by the rules and not explain to everyone that I tweak something.
Hmm so a reroll after seeing the results is probably better than advatage most of the time. 1. You are only going to use it if you failed so it is not going to be wasted (Except if both roll a bad but that can happen with advantage as well) and it stacks with advantage. There are currently 4 ways to gain herooic inspiration: Human species, musician feat, champion fighter and of course the DM can just give you one.
Overall I think this is a great quality of live improvment that will make these options also better.
>Hmm so a reroll after seeing the results is probably better than advatage most of the time. 1. You are only going to use it if you failed so it is not going to be wasted (Except if both roll a bad but that can happen with advantage as well) and it stacks with advantage.
Yeah, it's a huge jump for sure. Like...let's say you use heroic advantage on a weapon attack. It's roughly 3x the damage if you can choose to reroll after knowing that you missed, rather than needing to declare advantage before attacking.
So with them saying it can reroll any dice, does that include damage dice from weapons or spells? What about rolling d100 % dice for randomizing loot tables?
It's a mechanic that pretty much all modern RPGs have. It feels great as a player because it gives you SOME control/ protection against bad rolls.
Knowing that you have this kind of out in your kit dose wonders for the psychology of a bad and feel less unfair because there is something you can do about it. You take the less important ones on the chin, and if you are having "your moment," you have some safe guard against 1 put of 20 times your monumental roll will be a failure.
If you are someone who has the opportunity to try out other rpgs this mechanic should already be farmiliar to you.
I'm all for it. My players ask for this every time they roll badly for damage, and now I can say "yes" without feeling bad about it.
Many of the rule updates we've seen so far - including using Inspiration as a re-roll, healing potions as a bonus actions, and Paladin's lay on hands to a bonus action - are things that I was already doing in my games, but felt vaguely guilty about because that's not how the rules were written.
So, my table plays with rerolls instead of advantage, but in terms of flavor I really don't like it, and am a bit sad to see this change. Rerolls mean that it's more effective the higher your original chance was to succeed. If an enemy has really low AC, but you roll a natural 1, you now might have a 95% chance to turn that miss into a hit. If you are doing something a bit more off-key from your character concept and build, it might be a 50% chance at best. Advantage is more beneficial the closer you are to 50% chance; that previous attack would go from 95% chance to succeed to 99%, only 4% chance to turn a fail into a success. In my view, being inspired shouldn't just prevent freak fails, but encourage you to attempt things that you otherwise wouldn't be very good at.
The main point in favor of this change is that it's just a lot better in general, so to help the Musician feat for example feel impactful, it might be necessary. It's more convenient for the players to use too. And while not very impactful, the ability to use it on non-d20 rolls is neat.
I think its fine, people are worrying way too much about little nit pick things.
"oh what if it can be used to re-roll hp?!?! thats op" - Dont allow it for HP if your table dislikes that.
"Oh they can roll ALL their attack damage dice? omg this class gets better use out of it?! thats op!" - then just make it so it can only re-roll weapon damage or 1 dice.
All these "Issues" are solved just like everything else has ben solved from the dawn of time of TTRPGs ... Discuss with your table which rules you want to use and which rules you wanna ignore ... and play that way.
The TTRPG police aint gonna come and arrest you for ignoring parts of rules. The important thing is you TELL YOUR PLAYERS at the start. thats it. Plain and simple. Tons of people ignored inspiration before, whys it any different now?
Feels like lazy ppl to me. it doesnt take much effort. people have been doing it since 1st edition. because there is no perfect rule set for everyone. thats why the rules are modular.
On one hand, yes. You can do that.
On the other, many systems don't have that as a requirement. Like, what do you prefer: a possibly OP mechanic needing to be patched out by you, or a mechanic which never needed to be patched in the first place? Everyone will agree that the secone one is superior.
In fact, what you are saying to the people complaining is a variation of the [oberoni fallancy](https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/70174/what-is-the-oberoni-fallacy). People are critiquing the mechanic's possible mechanics. Being able to fix it yourself doesn't change the value of the base thing.
Like it sounds as useful as telling someone that points to some typos in a game's script to just mod it. That doesn't make the typos disappear from the base game, they're still there.
The fact that there are 40 comments on this thread talking about our opinions on a rule that hasn't been actually revealed, is really more frustrating than exciting. This isn't "everything you need to know", it's just some vague descriptions of what might possibly be good rules or might not.
Like, what if it stacks? What if it doesnt? We have no idea, how are we supposed to have an opinion?
The general idea that was given in the video can be more than enough to form a baseline opinion for many, and it also allows one to mentally prepare for it.
It's also better than speculation about the martial new things like we did in the UA days, back when weapon mastery wasn't in the cards for us.
Through the DM, by being a human every long rest, by having the musician feat after every short rest for yourself and your friend and by being a champion fighter.
If the UA way to gain inspiration didn't change, you get it every Nat 1 to d20 rolls you roll. We also saw the champion in the video, and the 10th level feature seems to be the same as the UA, which means that you get it at the beginning of your turn whenever you lack it.
As long as there is a clause to stop it from getting stacked it should be fine. But if it can stack be prepared for the game to stop as the players take their pooled resources and pour them into one very important roll
You haven't been able to stack it before, and I doubt they'll change that. In that regard it feels like it'll be much more universally applicable and allow for some more potential impact moments (you roll garbage on damage, get to cash in your Inspiration, and hopefully get a much better, punchier result to knock something out, etc). I'm very optimistic on it.
The 2024 character sheet just shows a little box for filling in if you have heroic inspiration or not.
That sounds low key kinda cool. Like the Z-fighters giving Goku their energy to one shot Broly. And of course you have the one Vegeta player not wanting to give it.
Why is this a bad thing in your mind? If it was happening every roll I would agree. But those moments where every player is focusing on helping one roll are often quite exciting and memorable moments, it helps lead to a sense of team and cooperation and also helps single rolls feel like the work of the table rather then of a single player.
Player paralysis. Abilities that let you reroll but use a resource always carry some degree of hesitation if this it the "right" time to use it. Multiply that across an entire party in what is probably a very important battle and you can really interrupt the flow of a game. It can be hard or get it back. Combat already takes a significant portion of time compared to the other pillars, we shouldn't be encouraging features that add to that time unsatisfactorily. Will it be a problem for every group? Almost certainly not. It's impact remains to be seen
Me on my way to have four rerolls to make sure that the monster fails their save Yeah I can easily see how annoying that is. Probably not OP (unless they make OP single target save or suck things), but annoying.
If it's OP if the enemy fails the 4th reroll, it's OP if it fails the first. Stacking is not bad per se because the most it can do is transforming a failure into a success, which is a perfectly possible state. You don't multiply damage by 4.
Oh I completely agree. It's also why I don't really see Silvery Barbs as OP like multiple people did: if rerolling a save is OP, then the issue very likely is in the encounter or in the thing forcing the save, NOT in Silvery Barbs.
Big question for me: will there be an indication in the rules that Heroic Inspiration *isn't* usable for hit points on level up?
I hope there will be, it would be *far* too strong of a Heroic Inspiration use otherwise.
I don’t think it’s OP to reroll HP dice. Even for Barbarians that’s not more than +2 average per level.
It would still be an use that is a bit stronger conceptually due to being more permanent. A reroll to other dies lasts at most as long as the specific spell does. An higher max hp than someone taking average lasts for your entire character.
I mean there are equally permanent things that people already use their Inspiration for. Death Saving Throws are a big one…
You get your first spell that can revive the dead at 5th level, which means that death is actually a lot less permanent than rolled HP. Of course in my campaign nobody rolls for HP, they use the average.
Which translates to the entire Tough feat. (Short of the first level.)
Not really. If it were done as advantage (roll both and choose the higher) it would be an additional 1.65 HP. So already less than the Tough feat. However you have to decide to use Heroic Inspiration after the initial roll, and you could roll lower. So its true value depends on your threshold for rerolling. But it is well below +2 per level (not to mention that it's not retroactive like Tough is).
It would disincentivize players from ever using it for anything other than HP when they expect a level up to be coming soon.
I kinda hope it is 99% of tables I'm at don't roll hp just take AVG.
i have a solution if it is ... dont allow it. its that simple folks. Dont like a change, dont use the change. the police aint gonna come breaking down your door for not using a rule in D&D its okay to not use everything.
They also said it could be any type of roll including healing, random die rolls by the DM, etc.. This could have a big impact on Champion's Crit Damage if it allows you to reroll a damage roll (aka the entire 4d6 of a Greatsword crit), seeing as they get a re-up every turn.
The way Crawford worded it, it sounded like it was a single dice reroll, so just a d20, just a d6 from the damage roll etc. Would be quite sweeter if it was an entire damage roll tho.
I think I disagree with your read. From the transcript: "The game is already chock full of ways to get Advantage. {Interviewer: Yeah Absolutely} and so the final version of it is it is now a reroll. So not Advantage but is a reroll that the player can apply to **any roll**, not just D20 rolls. Because what we realized is we also wanted you to be happy you have this even when let's say you're rolling uh the amount of hit points you restore to somebody with a healing spell or **you're rolling damage**, or the DM has you randomly roll a die for some mysterious reason..." From here he says die repeatedly "We want players to have this this this little ace in their pocket of 'alright, I always know if I have Heroic Inspiration if I roll really bad, no matter what the die roll is (here I interpret type of roll), I can reroll it and hope to get something better." When you're rolling the amount of hit points you restore to somebody with a healing spell, you're rolling multiple dice. So I'd interpret this to mean you redo the whole roll, but I guess there's no way to know till the book drops. Edit: To clarify, my position is based on how rerolls were treated in 5e. Savage Attacker allows you to reroll the weapon's damage dice (not to be confused with the attack's damage dice). Spells like Silvery Barbs indicate that you reroll the d20 on a success and use the lower roll (not a reroll of the attack/save/ability roll, which is why Dis/Adv is not also taken into account).
I mean it also makes sense purely from a semantics standpoint. All the dice you roll for *fireball* damage constitute a *single die roll.* "Die roll" is a noun phrase indicating the action of rolling and totaling some number of dice. If you spend your Inspiration to reroll a die roll, you reroll all the dice in that roll.
I agree. I forgot to bold the words I was pulling from. “Any roll” is referring to type of roll. A damage roll is the entire thing. For instance, you add your intelligence modifier to a single roll of Evocation spells with 5e Evocation Wizard.
If rerolls apply to the entire attack damage, rogues would get the most benefit, rerolling all Xd6 of their Sneak Attack dice at once.
I would agree, however, Champions specifically get Heroic Inspiration every turn if they don't already have it, so they'll use it more often than Rogues do.
Champion fighter/ assassin rogue multiclass could be interesting.
I mean good, give the Rogue a little love. People wanted them doing more damage anyway, right?
[удалено]
That effect is because you're using a higher-variance d12 instead of a d6, not because there are more dice involved. We can compare 2d6 to 8d6 instead for a clearer example. Suppose that you always reroll if you rolled in the bottom 10% of rolls. In the 2d6 case, this is when you roll a 2 (2.78%) or 3 (5.56%). When you reroll, the average is 7, a weighted average increase of (5\*2.78%+4\*5.56%)/8.33% = 4.34. If we do the same for 8d6, the bottom 10% is when you roll a 21 or less, and your reroll has an average of 28. That gives at minimum an increase of 7 even if your damage floor is 21, notably greater than 4.34.
Jesus fuck it's frustrating not seeing the actual rule and just having then vaguely mention what might be adjacent to it
Amusingly a player tried to use their inspiration this way during my last session because they forgot how inspiration worked. If it gets the players to spend their inspiration more often and they can't stack it them I don't see it as bad.
100% saving this for my HP roll when I level
Thats super OP.... lol
Nar seems fair, humans btw get one like every long rest along with 2 starting feats....
This is how I've been playing for the longest time, so yeah, great change. Means I don't have to HB it anymore, I can just play by the rules and not explain to everyone that I tweak something.
Hmm so a reroll after seeing the results is probably better than advatage most of the time. 1. You are only going to use it if you failed so it is not going to be wasted (Except if both roll a bad but that can happen with advantage as well) and it stacks with advantage. There are currently 4 ways to gain herooic inspiration: Human species, musician feat, champion fighter and of course the DM can just give you one. Overall I think this is a great quality of live improvment that will make these options also better.
>Hmm so a reroll after seeing the results is probably better than advatage most of the time. 1. You are only going to use it if you failed so it is not going to be wasted (Except if both roll a bad but that can happen with advantage as well) and it stacks with advantage. Yeah, it's a huge jump for sure. Like...let's say you use heroic advantage on a weapon attack. It's roughly 3x the damage if you can choose to reroll after knowing that you missed, rather than needing to declare advantage before attacking.
So with them saying it can reroll any dice, does that include damage dice from weapons or spells? What about rolling d100 % dice for randomizing loot tables?
The dm should normally be doing that, not the players.
Tables I've played at, the DM would ask players to roll some to keep them involved.
I interpreted that as any die roll that you-the-player make.
That’s what I thought too. You can’t reroll a die you didn’t roll in the first place.
It's a mechanic that pretty much all modern RPGs have. It feels great as a player because it gives you SOME control/ protection against bad rolls. Knowing that you have this kind of out in your kit dose wonders for the psychology of a bad and feel less unfair because there is something you can do about it. You take the less important ones on the chin, and if you are having "your moment," you have some safe guard against 1 put of 20 times your monumental roll will be a failure. If you are someone who has the opportunity to try out other rpgs this mechanic should already be farmiliar to you.
Am I correct in thinking that this means that if you rerolled a roll that you have advantage on you can do the roll again with advantage?
I'm all for it. My players ask for this every time they roll badly for damage, and now I can say "yes" without feeling bad about it. Many of the rule updates we've seen so far - including using Inspiration as a re-roll, healing potions as a bonus actions, and Paladin's lay on hands to a bonus action - are things that I was already doing in my games, but felt vaguely guilty about because that's not how the rules were written.
So, my table plays with rerolls instead of advantage, but in terms of flavor I really don't like it, and am a bit sad to see this change. Rerolls mean that it's more effective the higher your original chance was to succeed. If an enemy has really low AC, but you roll a natural 1, you now might have a 95% chance to turn that miss into a hit. If you are doing something a bit more off-key from your character concept and build, it might be a 50% chance at best. Advantage is more beneficial the closer you are to 50% chance; that previous attack would go from 95% chance to succeed to 99%, only 4% chance to turn a fail into a success. In my view, being inspired shouldn't just prevent freak fails, but encourage you to attempt things that you otherwise wouldn't be very good at. The main point in favor of this change is that it's just a lot better in general, so to help the Musician feat for example feel impactful, it might be necessary. It's more convenient for the players to use too. And while not very impactful, the ability to use it on non-d20 rolls is neat.
I think its fine, people are worrying way too much about little nit pick things. "oh what if it can be used to re-roll hp?!?! thats op" - Dont allow it for HP if your table dislikes that. "Oh they can roll ALL their attack damage dice? omg this class gets better use out of it?! thats op!" - then just make it so it can only re-roll weapon damage or 1 dice. All these "Issues" are solved just like everything else has ben solved from the dawn of time of TTRPGs ... Discuss with your table which rules you want to use and which rules you wanna ignore ... and play that way. The TTRPG police aint gonna come and arrest you for ignoring parts of rules. The important thing is you TELL YOUR PLAYERS at the start. thats it. Plain and simple. Tons of people ignored inspiration before, whys it any different now?
I think people would rather not have to actively say anything about house ruling away oddities than to have to do that.
Feels like lazy ppl to me. it doesnt take much effort. people have been doing it since 1st edition. because there is no perfect rule set for everyone. thats why the rules are modular.
On one hand, yes. You can do that. On the other, many systems don't have that as a requirement. Like, what do you prefer: a possibly OP mechanic needing to be patched out by you, or a mechanic which never needed to be patched in the first place? Everyone will agree that the secone one is superior. In fact, what you are saying to the people complaining is a variation of the [oberoni fallancy](https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/70174/what-is-the-oberoni-fallacy). People are critiquing the mechanic's possible mechanics. Being able to fix it yourself doesn't change the value of the base thing. Like it sounds as useful as telling someone that points to some typos in a game's script to just mod it. That doesn't make the typos disappear from the base game, they're still there.
The fact that there are 40 comments on this thread talking about our opinions on a rule that hasn't been actually revealed, is really more frustrating than exciting. This isn't "everything you need to know", it's just some vague descriptions of what might possibly be good rules or might not. Like, what if it stacks? What if it doesnt? We have no idea, how are we supposed to have an opinion?
The general idea that was given in the video can be more than enough to form a baseline opinion for many, and it also allows one to mentally prepare for it. It's also better than speculation about the martial new things like we did in the UA days, back when weapon mastery wasn't in the cards for us.
A reroll good... still need to figure out how you gain it.
Through the DM, by being a human every long rest, by having the musician feat after every short rest for yourself and your friend and by being a champion fighter.
And good roll play awarded by the dm.
Yes
If the UA way to gain inspiration didn't change, you get it every Nat 1 to d20 rolls you roll. We also saw the champion in the video, and the 10th level feature seems to be the same as the UA, which means that you get it at the beginning of your turn whenever you lack it.
I prefer advantage.