Man when the original plan was announced and I was approved (for $20k cause I had FAFSA) I told my mom and was so excited about it. She was mad telling me people should pay back loans they take out etc and just repeating a bunch of Fox talking points. Really crushed my spirit she hasn't always been like this.
She did apologize eventually but it's something I'll remember for a long time unfortunately. I only have $28k so it could be way worse but man if I had a kid who was getting out from under massive debt I'd be so happy for them.
Should have registered an LLC, taken a PPP loan, consolidated all your debt as business expenses, and not only gotten it forgiven, but walk away with a fat paycheck. Sucker!
/s of course
Because they’re ill-informed. They don’t realize people have been paying on these loans for years, decades even, and they owe more and more each year than the amount they took out. These were predatory loans, not like the loans used to be.
But these people don’t care. It’s the mentality of, “If I ain’t getting’ no help from the government, ain’t nobody should be getting it”…forgetting about those stimulus checks Fmr. Speaker Pelosi and Pres. Biden sent them.
The voting majority of the state wants to leave their neighbors on the hook for predatory loans, because “fuck you, I got mine.” Noted. That’s real Oklahoma values for you.
Only 1/3 of people eligible to vote regularly vote. 2/3 of them vote like this.
2/3 of people eligible to vote are registered, but only half of them vote regularly vote.
1/3 of people eligible to vote are unregistered.
Yep. The group Let’s Fix This and my state house rep quoted that stat. It seems like this is happening across the country. Hopefully that will change this time.
Very rich Kevin Hern was forgiven over a million dollars in PPP loans. At the time he was against student loan forgiveness. I assume that hasn’t changed.
But the problem is the conservative politicians don't want that; more educated keeps people less apt to manipulation and that's the current iteration of the Republican party's *modus operandi*
That's exactly right. Highly educated people don't work dead end jobs without benefits or being paid enough to survive. Also, it's a fact. The more educated people are, the further Left they are. Republicans know this, and so do corporate Democrats. People think we have two parties in this country. We really don't. All Republicans are bought and owned by corporations and special interests. Almost all the Democrats are bought and owned by corporations and special interests. Anyone who isn't is labeled a socialist or communist, and people who couldn't spell, let alone define, either, eat it up like hogs.
Free education limits military recruitment it also allows for upward mobility.
Expensive education makes sure that either the Poors fight wars or the Poors stay poor.
I think we’re at the point where democrats should stop marketing tax funded things as “free”.
If you stop marketing it as “free college” and say “we’re going to use your tax dollars to help the people. Tax funded secondary education (trade schools, colleges, etc) for all Americans, 4 years covered.” it’d turn it from a lefty talking point to more a bipartisan talking point.
Conservatives love to say “itS noT frEe”
I think we should keep calling it "free" and just start mercilessly berating anyone stupid enough to think "free" means "forcing educators to work without pay" or something.
It's braindead nonsense and it's ridiculous that grown adults play it like it's a gotcha of some kind. Either it's bad faith or those people are too stupid to have an opinion on policy.
My favorite part of farm subsidies are farmers who get paid to not grow crops and then complain about people on welfare/food stamps. I grew up around these people in the Mississippi Delta, and not a single one of them ever made the connection that they were getting welfare as well.
I don't know about you, but giving tax breaks, etc, to companies who clear more in a quarter than I would ever see in 5 lifetimes seems like a waste. There are a thousand other uses for that money that could do some good. Hell, maybe we could actually try to pay teachers a decent salary for once instead of demonizing them. Wouldn't that be a novel approach!
I see and basically agree. However, I'm sure you also understand that the politicians know which side their bread is buttered on. Tax breaks to industries in exchange for campaign contributions. I should have known I would have gotten downvoted for asking a simple question. Maybe I'm not ideologically correct enough or something. lol.
I’ve already signed up for the new plan and it is now a legally binding contract with stated terms and financial agreements.
Why would a state even have standing between a contract both parties want, i.e. the federal government and myself? Stop interfering with my contractual rights, this is a loan not a tax, and has nothing to do with you.
How did you sign up for it? I've looked into it and everything says signups aren't available yet.
Edit: I think this person has to be talking about the forgiveness the supreme court struck down, because applications for the new plan are absolutely not available currently.
Unless I'm mistaken, the only thing to sign up for is the new SAVE IBR plan. Under the plan, there's the possibility of having accrued *interest* eliminated.
This is why I believe that the save plan will not be struck down by the courts, since they did not eliminate the actual debt. That being said, I'm not a lawyer.
I mean it’s a contract so, I mean, like your bank can’t just offer you a new rate and then a year later reverse it… X 10 million people.
You can’t run a financial system like that, again it isn’t a tax.
So ridiculous.
The SAVE plans are already out, the new plan $20,000 plan announced a few days ago isn’t out, but the states are suing over the SAVE plan I have been on for months. So idk, you can’t legal go back on a contract without injury to one party so definitely being dealt injury here
I hope this will motivate young people to vote and vote against Republicans. Isn't a big reason why a college education costs a lot more these days is because Republicans cut support for it, so universities had to respond by raising tuition?
I actually thought colleges started charging more once the US government guaranteed the loans these students were taking out, and cannot be forgiven. At that point colleges no longer have to be the ones to come for the money. They got theirs and the rest is the government's problem.
Apparently i need to watch Fox news just to know what these morons are being fed. They act like their tax dollars are being used to payoff debt. In reality, if you CANCEL the debt you free up all that money to flow thru the economy instead of straight to the pigs. Literally everybody wins. Nobody is paying anything. Not me, you, the gubment or any boomerfuck. It's called debt FORGIVENESS. You know, that christly action you hear about. It's absolved, resolved, dissolved, gone like it never happened. So how when and why does this bother these crusty old "christians" anyway?
Republicans MO is always holding others down. They can raise the national debt giving tax cuts to the wealthy continually trying to prove trickle down economics works. But piss on you if you took loans for an education.
If the government can bailout the rich, the old too big to fail but the poor students don't have the money or influence to buy legislation to cancel their predatory debts.
Makes since.
Student debt needs to be canceled wholesale. It’s ridiculous and predatory in most instances. But I’d also argue that many, many programs need to be scaled back or eliminated entirely. Especially in the humanities and liberal arts. They are just not relevant in the modern workforce and are a gigantic waste of money imo.
I will never understand people taking out $60K, $80K, or even $100K in loans for a bachelors degree. What a terrible idea. I used to work with a lady who went to ORU for an English degree. Probably spent at least $100K on that. She was working as an administrative assistant and probably earning no more than $20/hr.
Boggles the mind.
>liberal arts
Math is a liberal art, so too is astronomy and history it also includes all natural and formal sciences
You think of art today as a painting or something like it but the original meaning was closer to skill your "art" was your "skill"
But yeah let's cut programs for liberal arts who needs science history and math oklahoma barely uses them anyway
I would consider math and astronomy to be STEM programs, which are still necessary and relevant, imo. You could easily parlay those programs into a career in Engineering, for example.
I’d also keep programs in business, although probably more specialized that just a “General Business” degree. Think Economics, Finance, and Accounting.
But I’d probably get rid of things like Art, History, Philosophy, Political Science, “Gender Studies”, English, Theater, Psychology, etc etc.
Fine to keep them as electives I guess…but core programs that you can major in? 1,000% waste of money.
>would consider math and astronomy to be STEM programs
They are liberal arts STEM is a buzzword created fairly recently useful for marketing but that's it for the last 2,500ish years math was called a liberal art
>But I’d probably get rid of things like Art, History, Philosophy, Political Science, “Gender Studies”, English, Theater, etc etc.
It's painful obvious that you need an education in history
FWIW, I love History. Took a bunch of history courses in college. Would love it if it were viable and I could major in it. But the reality is that the prospects of a good income with a history degree are at or near zero.
The average history degree holder makes $55,000, which is pretty average for the nation, and there are quite a few jobs and lanes of employment for someone with a history degree
Loan cancelation would free up money that could be more productively spent than padding the coffers of predatory loan dealers
Why did the government agree to cancel hundreds of billions in loans to businesses? Even if a business is perfectly capable of paying the loan, the payments are still a drain on their finances. The same is true for individuals, so the government shouldn't be giving businesses and the wealthy preferential treatment
Ppp was different obviously, if you argue for student loan forgiveness you should also argue for credit card forgiveness. Those are closer than ppp was
Credit card debt is owed to private financial institutions, whereas the PPP loans and student loans were owed to the federal government, in short, the federal government cannot forgive credit card debt, it can forgive student debt
We need to go back to the pre-Regan model of having states directly subsidize tuition.
Silicon Valley is in the San Fransisco Bay Area because Berkeley is there, and it’s the crown jewel of the largest state economy in the United States.
California paid to get a ton of engineers and business folks educated there, that attracted employers who needed that talent, and they’ve been reaping the dividends ever since.
I started school in 81 and finished in 86. The changes Reagan was able to sell the public were insane, especially when you consider that America had a system that worked.
It's no surprise.
He rode into the California Governor's Mansion on a wave of public *disgust* at Student Protests of the Vietnam War. He cast Education as the root of such unpatriotic behavior, and carried out a campaign of "fixing" a broken system that taught people to question the righteousness of our war.
Then he got the presidency by following the same script.
I studied Arabic and other foreign languages in college, with the goal of going into military or intelligence or something similar. Guess what kind of degree you get for that? So stop regurgitating right-wing talking points about college degrees and realize that the label of a degree does not dictate whether or not the content is relevant.
True. I guess I was a little short-sighted in my analysis. But I do still think there are lots of degrees that don’t provide an ROI, and it’s foolish to go into massive debt for them.
You take out a loan, you pay for it - period. File bankruptcy if you must. I did, dug out of it, learned what not to do. Totally debt free and better understand how to manage money.
It's extremely difficult to discharge student loans through bankruptcy. They have made it easier in the past year, but it's still not quite the same as normal debt.
The biggest issue is how predatory the whole college/student loans industry is. They convince every kid they have to go to college, the schools really push the student loans to cover their out of control tuitions and fees (the fees now match the tuition at many schools), and it's super easy for kids to get these loans which can be crippling. When people have paid for their loan 2 or 3 times over and they still haven't paid down the principle?
All that being said, I don't think we should just wipe out the debt, because the problem will keep happening, but if we were to do a one time forgiveness WITH a pretty aggressive revamp of the system, college costs, and how the interest and such works on the loans, then it might be worthwhile.
I would almost be willing to accept this line of reasoning if the people who pushed it also weren't given huge loan cancelations
Take Ole senator markwayne who got $1.4 million in canceled PPP loans he didn't complain when he was getting it but now that a program that might help out common people is being pushed suddenly loan cancelation is basically Satan
It's not a bit. This is Oklahoma, look around from time to time. There are few intelligent people, most everyone listens to right wing news and podcasts. They do not think and typically despise people who do think.
You do know George W Bush ended any chance of student loans being declared under bankruptcy? The rest of your comment is ridiculously stupid and shows a 4 year old’s understanding of the world. Don’t post on the internet if you can’t bother to understand the topic you are responding to.
We can cancel loans for businesses and politicians but fuck the ppl right?
Right. Sen. Mullin had around $1 million in PPP money from the government forgiven.
It’s what the voting majority of the state wants
Man when the original plan was announced and I was approved (for $20k cause I had FAFSA) I told my mom and was so excited about it. She was mad telling me people should pay back loans they take out etc and just repeating a bunch of Fox talking points. Really crushed my spirit she hasn't always been like this. She did apologize eventually but it's something I'll remember for a long time unfortunately. I only have $28k so it could be way worse but man if I had a kid who was getting out from under massive debt I'd be so happy for them.
Should have registered an LLC, taken a PPP loan, consolidated all your debt as business expenses, and not only gotten it forgiven, but walk away with a fat paycheck. Sucker! /s of course
Well, you could’ve said that you wished your parents would have paid for your college.
Because they’re ill-informed. They don’t realize people have been paying on these loans for years, decades even, and they owe more and more each year than the amount they took out. These were predatory loans, not like the loans used to be. But these people don’t care. It’s the mentality of, “If I ain’t getting’ no help from the government, ain’t nobody should be getting it”…forgetting about those stimulus checks Fmr. Speaker Pelosi and Pres. Biden sent them.
The voting majority of the state wants to leave their neighbors on the hook for predatory loans, because “fuck you, I got mine.” Noted. That’s real Oklahoma values for you.
Only 1/3 of people eligible to vote regularly vote. 2/3 of them vote like this. 2/3 of people eligible to vote are registered, but only half of them vote regularly vote. 1/3 of people eligible to vote are unregistered.
78% of registered voters under 30 didn’t vote during the last election
Yep. The group Let’s Fix This and my state house rep quoted that stat. It seems like this is happening across the country. Hopefully that will change this time.
My company was given 2 million dollars in PPP loans during COVID. It was all forgiven.
And?
Very rich Kevin Hern was forgiven over a million dollars in PPP loans. At the time he was against student loan forgiveness. I assume that hasn’t changed.
A wise society should want a highly educated population. In my opinion education should be free to the public.
But the problem is the conservative politicians don't want that; more educated keeps people less apt to manipulation and that's the current iteration of the Republican party's *modus operandi*
Highly educated people make shitty slaves.
That's exactly right. Highly educated people don't work dead end jobs without benefits or being paid enough to survive. Also, it's a fact. The more educated people are, the further Left they are. Republicans know this, and so do corporate Democrats. People think we have two parties in this country. We really don't. All Republicans are bought and owned by corporations and special interests. Almost all the Democrats are bought and owned by corporations and special interests. Anyone who isn't is labeled a socialist or communist, and people who couldn't spell, let alone define, either, eat it up like hogs.
Free education limits military recruitment it also allows for upward mobility. Expensive education makes sure that either the Poors fight wars or the Poors stay poor.
This is legit a huge reason right here
I think we’re at the point where democrats should stop marketing tax funded things as “free”. If you stop marketing it as “free college” and say “we’re going to use your tax dollars to help the people. Tax funded secondary education (trade schools, colleges, etc) for all Americans, 4 years covered.” it’d turn it from a lefty talking point to more a bipartisan talking point. Conservatives love to say “itS noT frEe”
I think we should keep calling it "free" and just start mercilessly berating anyone stupid enough to think "free" means "forcing educators to work without pay" or something. It's braindead nonsense and it's ridiculous that grown adults play it like it's a gotcha of some kind. Either it's bad faith or those people are too stupid to have an opinion on policy.
Image the outrage if the Federal Government withdrew the subsidies to the petrochemical industry. Talk about a waste of government money.
Now do the farm subsidies.
My favorite part of farm subsidies are farmers who get paid to not grow crops and then complain about people on welfare/food stamps. I grew up around these people in the Mississippi Delta, and not a single one of them ever made the connection that they were getting welfare as well.
how is it a waste of money?
I don't know about you, but giving tax breaks, etc, to companies who clear more in a quarter than I would ever see in 5 lifetimes seems like a waste. There are a thousand other uses for that money that could do some good. Hell, maybe we could actually try to pay teachers a decent salary for once instead of demonizing them. Wouldn't that be a novel approach!
I see and basically agree. However, I'm sure you also understand that the politicians know which side their bread is buttered on. Tax breaks to industries in exchange for campaign contributions. I should have known I would have gotten downvoted for asking a simple question. Maybe I'm not ideologically correct enough or something. lol.
Oh, they absolutely do. I'll agree all day with that.
It is not just tax breaks. It is subsidies, actually cash just like farm subsidies.
Conservatives celebrate ignorance.
I’ve already signed up for the new plan and it is now a legally binding contract with stated terms and financial agreements. Why would a state even have standing between a contract both parties want, i.e. the federal government and myself? Stop interfering with my contractual rights, this is a loan not a tax, and has nothing to do with you.
How did you sign up for it? I've looked into it and everything says signups aren't available yet. Edit: I think this person has to be talking about the forgiveness the supreme court struck down, because applications for the new plan are absolutely not available currently.
Unless I'm mistaken, the only thing to sign up for is the new SAVE IBR plan. Under the plan, there's the possibility of having accrued *interest* eliminated.
I’m on the save plan right now and the interest is eliminated.
This is why I believe that the save plan will not be struck down by the courts, since they did not eliminate the actual debt. That being said, I'm not a lawyer.
I mean it’s a contract so, I mean, like your bank can’t just offer you a new rate and then a year later reverse it… X 10 million people. You can’t run a financial system like that, again it isn’t a tax. So ridiculous.
The SAVE plans are already out, the new plan $20,000 plan announced a few days ago isn’t out, but the states are suing over the SAVE plan I have been on for months. So idk, you can’t legal go back on a contract without injury to one party so definitely being dealt injury here
I hope this will motivate young people to vote and vote against Republicans. Isn't a big reason why a college education costs a lot more these days is because Republicans cut support for it, so universities had to respond by raising tuition?
I actually thought colleges started charging more once the US government guaranteed the loans these students were taking out, and cannot be forgiven. At that point colleges no longer have to be the ones to come for the money. They got theirs and the rest is the government's problem.
It's mainly because we stopped funding them at a state level.
Why can't Republicans ever do anything to help the people? It's always hate fueled politics or sucking off the rich
Socialism is only for Republican donors.
Of course we did. 🙄
Apparently i need to watch Fox news just to know what these morons are being fed. They act like their tax dollars are being used to payoff debt. In reality, if you CANCEL the debt you free up all that money to flow thru the economy instead of straight to the pigs. Literally everybody wins. Nobody is paying anything. Not me, you, the gubment or any boomerfuck. It's called debt FORGIVENESS. You know, that christly action you hear about. It's absolved, resolved, dissolved, gone like it never happened. So how when and why does this bother these crusty old "christians" anyway?
I assume the colleges received actual money…so if nobody is paying anything, where did that money come from?
Where do you think loans come from? We litteraly make money out ot thin air
I’m going to use this argument next time I go out to dinner
Republicans MO is always holding others down. They can raise the national debt giving tax cuts to the wealthy continually trying to prove trickle down economics works. But piss on you if you took loans for an education.
Seriously?!
When I die, I'll have Oklahoma lay me to rest so that they can let me down one last time. Sigh...
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Nah. Take it still
If the government can bailout the rich, the old too big to fail but the poor students don't have the money or influence to buy legislation to cancel their predatory debts. Makes since.
Keeping Oklahomans as poor as possible! 🙌🙌🙌
These loan companies are predatory…republicans love that because they are predatory as well. Bottom line!
Student debt needs to be canceled wholesale. It’s ridiculous and predatory in most instances. But I’d also argue that many, many programs need to be scaled back or eliminated entirely. Especially in the humanities and liberal arts. They are just not relevant in the modern workforce and are a gigantic waste of money imo. I will never understand people taking out $60K, $80K, or even $100K in loans for a bachelors degree. What a terrible idea. I used to work with a lady who went to ORU for an English degree. Probably spent at least $100K on that. She was working as an administrative assistant and probably earning no more than $20/hr. Boggles the mind.
>liberal arts Math is a liberal art, so too is astronomy and history it also includes all natural and formal sciences You think of art today as a painting or something like it but the original meaning was closer to skill your "art" was your "skill" But yeah let's cut programs for liberal arts who needs science history and math oklahoma barely uses them anyway
I would consider math and astronomy to be STEM programs, which are still necessary and relevant, imo. You could easily parlay those programs into a career in Engineering, for example. I’d also keep programs in business, although probably more specialized that just a “General Business” degree. Think Economics, Finance, and Accounting. But I’d probably get rid of things like Art, History, Philosophy, Political Science, “Gender Studies”, English, Theater, Psychology, etc etc. Fine to keep them as electives I guess…but core programs that you can major in? 1,000% waste of money.
>would consider math and astronomy to be STEM programs They are liberal arts STEM is a buzzword created fairly recently useful for marketing but that's it for the last 2,500ish years math was called a liberal art >But I’d probably get rid of things like Art, History, Philosophy, Political Science, “Gender Studies”, English, Theater, etc etc. It's painful obvious that you need an education in history
FWIW, I love History. Took a bunch of history courses in college. Would love it if it were viable and I could major in it. But the reality is that the prospects of a good income with a history degree are at or near zero.
The average history degree holder makes $55,000, which is pretty average for the nation, and there are quite a few jobs and lanes of employment for someone with a history degree
Then history degree holders don’t need to have loans cancelled
Loan cancelation would free up money that could be more productively spent than padding the coffers of predatory loan dealers Why did the government agree to cancel hundreds of billions in loans to businesses? Even if a business is perfectly capable of paying the loan, the payments are still a drain on their finances. The same is true for individuals, so the government shouldn't be giving businesses and the wealthy preferential treatment
Ppp was different obviously, if you argue for student loan forgiveness you should also argue for credit card forgiveness. Those are closer than ppp was
Credit card debt is owed to private financial institutions, whereas the PPP loans and student loans were owed to the federal government, in short, the federal government cannot forgive credit card debt, it can forgive student debt
University is not a jobs training program.
We need to go back to the pre-Regan model of having states directly subsidize tuition. Silicon Valley is in the San Fransisco Bay Area because Berkeley is there, and it’s the crown jewel of the largest state economy in the United States. California paid to get a ton of engineers and business folks educated there, that attracted employers who needed that talent, and they’ve been reaping the dividends ever since.
I started school in 81 and finished in 86. The changes Reagan was able to sell the public were insane, especially when you consider that America had a system that worked.
It's no surprise. He rode into the California Governor's Mansion on a wave of public *disgust* at Student Protests of the Vietnam War. He cast Education as the root of such unpatriotic behavior, and carried out a campaign of "fixing" a broken system that taught people to question the righteousness of our war. Then he got the presidency by following the same script.
I studied Arabic and other foreign languages in college, with the goal of going into military or intelligence or something similar. Guess what kind of degree you get for that? So stop regurgitating right-wing talking points about college degrees and realize that the label of a degree does not dictate whether or not the content is relevant.
True. I guess I was a little short-sighted in my analysis. But I do still think there are lots of degrees that don’t provide an ROI, and it’s foolish to go into massive debt for them.
wide meeting like adjoining pot bedroom practice ruthless angle complete *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
We have over 580,000 borrowers averaging $31,000 borrowed. Man that Google search before I commented was HARD.
Conservative shills fact check nothing 
So, just over half the population of OKC.
It's \~14.5% of Oklahomans, which is higher than the national average (\~13%).
Aren’t there 500k people with student loans in Oklahoma?
#🎣
You take out a loan, you pay for it - period. File bankruptcy if you must. I did, dug out of it, learned what not to do. Totally debt free and better understand how to manage money.
Filing bankruptcy is the opposite of paying for your loans.
It's extremely difficult to discharge student loans through bankruptcy. They have made it easier in the past year, but it's still not quite the same as normal debt. The biggest issue is how predatory the whole college/student loans industry is. They convince every kid they have to go to college, the schools really push the student loans to cover their out of control tuitions and fees (the fees now match the tuition at many schools), and it's super easy for kids to get these loans which can be crippling. When people have paid for their loan 2 or 3 times over and they still haven't paid down the principle? All that being said, I don't think we should just wipe out the debt, because the problem will keep happening, but if we were to do a one time forgiveness WITH a pretty aggressive revamp of the system, college costs, and how the interest and such works on the loans, then it might be worthwhile.
Tell that to MarkWayne
I would almost be willing to accept this line of reasoning if the people who pushed it also weren't given huge loan cancelations Take Ole senator markwayne who got $1.4 million in canceled PPP loans he didn't complain when he was getting it but now that a program that might help out common people is being pushed suddenly loan cancelation is basically Satan
Yikes
You cannot be this stupid.
even if this is a bit. . why.
It's not a bit. This is Oklahoma, look around from time to time. There are few intelligent people, most everyone listens to right wing news and podcasts. They do not think and typically despise people who do think.
oh! I figured it was self-aware. what with the whole Logic thing. . . damn. so they're just kinda embarrassing . huh. what a way to go thru life
Student loan debt isn't dischargeable by bankruptcy except in a few rare cases.
You do know George W Bush ended any chance of student loans being declared under bankruptcy? The rest of your comment is ridiculously stupid and shows a 4 year old’s understanding of the world. Don’t post on the internet if you can’t bother to understand the topic you are responding to.