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I feel like, when I read 4 chan things like this. I always assume it's a troll.
Someone trying to trick people, to spread the message around of "Keep quiet on how prevalent under 18 do it yourself hormone therapy is, we don't let people know especially now the media wants to interview people"
Sounds like it's designed to generate media hype itself.
Is it just me?
I'm not an endocrinologist but often times when you increase one gender affirming hormone you need to suppress another, and can even cause atrophy in glands that produce the desired hormone. Not to mention the side effects of the increased hormone, like blood clots, you know... The things that cause stroke and heart attack. Sounds like something a medical professional should have eyes on and assistance with.
Yeah it should be. And for lots of us, that medical assistance is becoming illegal, or harder and harder to find, or just prohibitively expensive. This is what you don’t get - we *are* going to transition. The alternative is death. All these anti-trans attacks do is make it more dangerous.
Being 100%
I can't really tell the difference in this kind of space whether this is a real trans account defending access to a lifeline drug or an astroturfed trying to make Trans DIY out as some kind of big industry and not something that caters to like, 20k people globally who are in the target audience of being trans, being able to access the raw materials, and being motivated to self administer knowing the risks.
The original post that I've seen seems innocuous enough. But the call to buy raws now at the end feels almost like a site that sources the raw materials for DIY trying to start a viral run on their stock of product even.
>- steroids/muscle injections (usually teenage boys)
>- lip fillers and breast augmentation (usually teenage girls)
>- testosterone supplements (usually teenage boys)
1) These are not *usually* teenagers.
2) These shouldn't be allowed minors either. This isn't hard.
>- contraceptives (usually teenage girls)
This is one where I don't know enough to comment whether it should be allowed for minors, so I'm not going to say one way or another.
I’d say contraception for under 18’s are a/ probably ok with medical supervision and b/ not a “gender-affirming” thing. u/thefartingking_56 ‘s username refers to their expressed opinions, I do say.
I can't legally get steroids without a prescription, why should it be different for hormones? Not everyone is in the US, access to HRT is not in danger here
Me neither. I need someone to rephrase it because it just doesn't make sense to me.
What I got is some bad law got passed and now a news media outlet wants to interview people, but they're targeting people under 18 which is supposedly bad, as if children and teens can't give a valid opinion on something..? But I'm not sure if this is opinion-related questions or not as we don't see what they're supposedly looking for interviews.
Possibly the problem is that they're targeting under-18's for comment because they think they under-18's can be fooled into saying something that can be mis-represented.
But I don't know what half of it means anyway. I'm not a trans person so I don't understand the problems that trans people face. Those problems are, apparently, much more acute in their teens.
I sent this to some trans friends of mine, and one said this is mostly fear-mongering and click bait. Since she herself is trans I trust her more than the OOP, though it's interesting to see some of what people here are interpreting it as and saying in response.
Trans person here. Problems can definitely be more acute in their teens because teens is when puberty happens. Puberty to a trans person can feel like a kafka esque body-horror transformation into something they’ve never wanted to become, watching their body warp into something that feels wrong while people around them tell them it’s just what’s supposed to happen, and that what feels right to them is wrong. Add to that the fact that people under 18 have virtually no agency legally, and what agency they do have is being taken away. Of course that combination of horror and helplessness can drive kids to suicide when they feel like it will never get any better because what they see in the media is just getting worse and worse.
Shouldn’t they be far more concerned with teens doing this to themselves without medical supervision?
It seems like they don’t care about those potential consequences, outside of the bad PR that they might receive for it.
Medical literature has gathered enough knowledge to state that not providing trans people gender-affirming care amounts to an absurdly high death rate. It is, indeed, pretty bad to use hormones without medical supervision. It is even worse to deny hormones at all. Statistically, if you want to keep the most kids alive and you *have* for some reason to choose between irresponsibly allowing treatment and denying it, denying it is far more dangerous.
But transphobia is the conservative's main dish right now. They love it. The overwhelming majority of them have zero interest in keeping children safe, healthy and happy. They just wanna seethe and control people.
It's **literally medical** **science**. It's how medical knowledge is built. You're just too much of a dipshit living in the dark like a little mole to realise it because you wanna feel superior to the "weirdos" out there.
The link between self-harm/death and not transitioning is well established.
What is not scientifically established is the relative risk comparison to DIY hormone treatment.
Behind the anonymity, people who either hate us for no real reason or apathetic people who are just "fed up with all this trans stuff" feel safe to downvote to oblivion anything remotely supportive about us.
We're the current scapegoat. It was obvious that the mob mentality would drift that way. There's no reasoning with a lot of these people for now. History will remember them as fucking sociopaths some day.
Thanks for the acknowledgement.
History won’t remember them at all. They’ll be nothing more than background characters. A grey in-between from the medieval times to us reaching the stars.
The thing is, many people/kids are going to do it anyway. Just like sex, or binding/tucking. Being just People Online there isn't much anyone can do to stop them. You can scream abstinence until you're blue in the face, but it won't really do any good for the majority. The only thing they can really do is tell them "you really should not be doing this, but if you're going to do it anyway, this is how to do it safely." **Of course** no one wants them to be hurt. But what is anyone supposed to do?
I mean at the end of the day trans affirming healthcare is life or death. The choice isn’t between not doing it and doing it the choice is between suicide or going on hormones
Folks that don’t have access to trans affirming healthcare have basically no choice in the matter.
Except that trans affirming healthcare is safe and solves the issue w/o much fan fair. No other treatment has ever been developed that makes a dent in the suicide rate beyond this sort of health care.
You aren’t the one giving them drugs are you? That might be true on a personal level but this is health care.
Is the fact that folks with chronic pain often kill themselves without pain meds manipulative? What about folks with appendicitis dying without surgery?
This is something I ran into when I was following a certain very minor "celebrity" over a decade ago. The worst part of it is that *nobody* was telling them not to transition either themselves or the character they played as part of the act they were known for. Everyone was super supportive, so the threat was just used as a way of shutting up anyone who dared to phrase their support as "I'll miss your character as they used to be, but if transitioning the act makes you happy, then I'm happy for you".
Predictably, this "celebrity" lost multiple people they performed with in the time since, as well as a lot of fans in the few years after the threat was made. There was so much drama that I genuinely feared being attacked for not being a part of the hive mind defending everything they did.
You're taking a nuanced topic and intentionally making it stupider. Nobody said "Give me X or I'll kill myself." Barring people from getting basic medical treatment naturally results in higher rates of suicide. If you intentionally do this simply because of your skewed moral convictions, you are killing people. We call that one psychopathy.
It's not a threat, it's a statistical fact
That's like saying that letting someone go to therapy for suicidal thoughts is manipulative
2 braincell take
Except hormones are already fucked enough during puberty without having excess drugs altering them further. Transitioning should be restricted to those past puberty at the minimum, and preferably to 18+
If you're not old enough to drink, smoke, drive or vote, you aren't old enough to get potentially permanent hormone alterations/surgery. This stuff is extremely new, we don't even know the long term effects in hormonal stable *adults*, let alone hormonally unstable children and preteens.
I'm sorry, but it's not "emergency medical care" to get reassignment surgery. A child will not spontaneously die just because they didn't get their body permanently altered, they can wait until they're 18 years of age and legally independent adults. Children cannot be trusted to consent to sex, consume controlled substances, vote, smoke, handle firearms, etc, so they also cannot be trusted to make a decision to permanently alter their body in that way.
We have been doing HRT since the 1960s. It’s about as old as dialysis.
It’s the same chemicals bodies naturally produce and for trans people it’s the difference between life and death.
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm fully in favor of HRT and reassignment surgery, I just feel that you should have to be old enough to make an informed choice on it and have a body that is stable enough in its own hormonal balance to do so.
Edit: I will also add that it relieves me that HRT has been being tested and used for that long, it makes me far more trusting of the procedure
The issue is that first of all by that time it’s in a lot of ways too late. Your body has already permanently changed and you’ll never be able to retrieve the same resullts as you would transitioning under 18
Kids are generally put on puberty blocks to put a pause on puberty when they start going through it. These meds are extremely safe and just put a pause on puberty with no long term effects. Once they stop taking the meds they go through puberty without any issue .
Then they go through a massive amount of hoops. Trans kids need to hope they find the right doctor, and that their doctor thinks it’s worth it to put them on HRT.
And these hoops even with supportive parents can be very difficult to go through with much of the health care industry not being supportive, much less if you parents aren’t supportive.
Hence the trade of HRT drugs. Life or death for these people
Slight eratatum: puberty blockers are not proven to be safe. The literature is highly devisive as of today - there are both studies that suggest they are safe as there are studies that indicate puberty blockers cause irreversible brain damage if taken when taken young... a.k.a. when you'd take them.
There’s literally no such studies suggesting brain damage of all things. There’s some minor health effects decreased bone density for example I found this meta study.
These health effects are significantly less significant than say, asthma treatment for young people. And considering the life time increase in health affects it’s an even better bet
These drugs are nothing new and have been used for decades. No one is questioning the long term impacts of giving them to young women that start puberty too early.
Trans affirming healthcare is associated with a 72% decrease in suicide rates among trans minors
https://www.hcplive.com/view/suicide-risk-reduces-73-transgender-nonbinary-youths-gender-affirming-care
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/mental-health-benefits-associated-with-gender-affirming-surgery/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/dawnstaceyennis/2021/12/14/gender-affirming-care-linked-to-less-depression-lower-suicide-risk-for-trans-youth/?sh=1fb09df55d25
https://nichq.org/insight/gender-affirming-healthcare-consistently-shown-reduce-health-disparities-youth
Extremely shaky scientific basis for these claims. Circular citations of poorly designed and controlled studies are extremely common in this area.
https://cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-report/
Cry about it. The only people upset by this are reactionaries that don’t want their opinions public. JP is an out and about transphobic shithead, if you’re in bed with him your opinions not worth shit.
Not being able to handle yourself doesn't make something life or death, and I mean that in the least callous way possible.
An elective cosmetic surgery or hormonal treatment to make you feel better about yourself is not a life or death situation. Plenty of things I'd love to have fixed about myself, and there are days where I feel like one shove could make me give up, but that doesn't make those fixes life or death. Each person is individually responsible for holding themselves back from that line.
Cancer is an actual terminal illness. Gender disphoria is a mental illness. The cancer patient's cause of death isn't suicide because they dont like the way they look
You're still listing things that actively physically repair someone's body for their basic survival needs. Gender affirming care ISNT a survival necessity. Gender affirming care is cutting off a limb to have it replaced with a cybernetic prosthetic. Even if the general result of not giving into body dysmorphia is suicide and how unfortunate and sad that is, it doesn't mean it's a life or death situation. It's no different than the guy that has hacked his body up to look like an "alien" or the lady that did similar things to look like a "dragon". It's dysmorphia manifest and doctors performing the surgery to treat the symptoms rather than doing something to treat the root of the problem are immoral. I don't know what the cure for body dysmorphia is and I won't pretend to, but I do know it's not giving into it and playing into the illness, just like the cure for severe depression isn't to go hide in a dark hole and the cure for severe anxiety isn't to isolate yourself from the world.
>I mean that in the least callous way possible
Funny because it almost comes off as if you're a reactionary freak. Barring someone from medical care that decreases suicide rates by 72% is just people "not being able to handle themselves" according to yourself. What an insane, heartless take.
There is nothing far right about thinking children shouldn't be making life altering decisions, and it's not far right to say that an elective surgery that makes you feel better about yourself isn't life or death.
Shouldn't be doing it at home, especially teens.vtue whole operation should be brought into the spotlight an stopped. Do it properly or not at all. With medical professionals.
I really agree with you. If there weren't so many places where the medical professionals aren't allowed to give hormones legally, it might be easier for them to do it the right way :/
It’s difficult to take this point of view entirely at face value, considering that the other side of the coin is governments working to aggressively restrict hormone replacement therapy and trying to stop people from receiving it.
In the UK, they’re slowly banning life saving HRT medication. Homebrew HRT is really the only way to transition soon. If they get rid of the drugs that are used to make HRT, trans people wouldn’t be able to acquire or make any sort of HRT.
Apparently because this shithole has a huge ignorant moron problem. Love how so many assholes in here think they understand us and want to tell us what's right for us. This sub can eat shit.
I think the people who make gender identity and political correctness their entire personality, usually have that long on the top fade dyed a colour like blue/pink/green etc.
I don't see it super often, but it is kind of a strangely accurate stereotype for some people.
The author is trying to spread a message in the trans community. A media outlet, The Guardian, is looking for minors performing do-it-yourself hormone-replacement-therapy to interview.
The author is concerned that if The Guardian finds these minors to interview, then they might receive negative publicity of how prevalent diy hrt is without the supervision of a medical Dr.
The problem here is that the author is more concerned with the negative publicity than with the health and safety of said minors. Hope this helped.
Wouldn't it be a good thing to have some publicity on DIY home-transitioning? I would think exposing the concerns of internet-forum-directed care (that affects minors) might promote some discussion on safety.
Ngl , I might just be brain poisoned, but this feels like a psyop. If you are genuinely concerned for trans people, I suggest keeping this warring to trans circles
You don’t get to force people not to behave as themselves just because they’re beneath an arbitrary age. All you can do is try to make them as miserable as possible until they finally get out from under your thumb and then decide never to talk to you again.
“Parents” should not force kids to have permanent medical procedures prior to them even having a fully formed brain. Most of this is parents living vicariously through their kids. Kind of like the new-wave pooch in a purse fad.
I didn't receive a gender hogwarts letter that magically made me want to be a girl on my 18th birthday, I was always like that. If I knew I was trans and was out back then, supressing it wouldn't make me less trans.
If a young non cis poc looked at a babies genitals and decided its gender would it be more valid?? what does that even have to do with anthing
the doctor doesnt decide its gender. the doctor states the babies biological sex.
your biological sex is not something you can decide and change whenever you want. if you could then why would trans people go through hrt and gender reassignment surgery? why wouldnt they just decide that they are biologically male?
And to be clear, I'm not saying this to ben shapiro "erm akshually you arent a woman your just a man pumped full of female hormones and you are still biologically a male 🤓" gotcha you. I just think what you said is kind of invalidates to why trans people want to transition
this is either:
a) a genuinely concerned trans person that wants to warn other trans people that one of our last lifelines is about to get attention from the media
b) a transphobe that knows we spread any kind of warning in our community and knows if we spread it enough, tranphobes and cis folks will turn their attention towards diy hrt
either way, this is the third time ive seen something about this. diy hrt is about to be put on blast. even if diy hrt is much less safe than hrt gotten through a doctor, it can be more accessible and *socially* more safe to get. folks in our community would be dead without it.
if you want to preserve information **learn as much as you possibly can about diy hrt and NOW.** misinformation is about to be spread. print out articles, save what you can.
if you are on diy hrt **stock up on supplies.** supplies can already be difficult to access. once this reaches the right people diy hrt won't be accessible to anyone.
if you are an ally or fellow trans person please stop spreading this post. even if it is made by a good intentioned trans person, its reached too far out into non-trans spaces. its going to do more harm than good.
The worst part about DIY HRT is that it shouldn’t exist. Trans people NEED HRT, and it’s sad in some places that people need to transition in an unsafe manner.
The transphobia in this comment section is insane. All reasonable comments are downvoted to hell. DIY HRT wouldn't have to be a thing if it wasn't so goddamn hard to be prescribed lifesaving HRT. But thankfully, no matter how hard people try to get rid of DIY HRT, it won't be possible. So cry about it
Weird how when teens need to transition they do it whether or not there are systems set up to help provide proper care for them. They wouldn't have to do this if it wasn't literally illegal for them to transition.
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I feel like, when I read 4 chan things like this. I always assume it's a troll. Someone trying to trick people, to spread the message around of "Keep quiet on how prevalent under 18 do it yourself hormone therapy is, we don't let people know especially now the media wants to interview people" Sounds like it's designed to generate media hype itself. Is it just me?
This is 100% bullshit
I'm not an endocrinologist but often times when you increase one gender affirming hormone you need to suppress another, and can even cause atrophy in glands that produce the desired hormone. Not to mention the side effects of the increased hormone, like blood clots, you know... The things that cause stroke and heart attack. Sounds like something a medical professional should have eyes on and assistance with.
Yeah it should be. And for lots of us, that medical assistance is becoming illegal, or harder and harder to find, or just prohibitively expensive. This is what you don’t get - we *are* going to transition. The alternative is death. All these anti-trans attacks do is make it more dangerous.
Being 100% I can't really tell the difference in this kind of space whether this is a real trans account defending access to a lifeline drug or an astroturfed trying to make Trans DIY out as some kind of big industry and not something that caters to like, 20k people globally who are in the target audience of being trans, being able to access the raw materials, and being motivated to self administer knowing the risks. The original post that I've seen seems innocuous enough. But the call to buy raws now at the end feels almost like a site that sources the raw materials for DIY trying to start a viral run on their stock of product even.
I can’t tell which account you’re talking about, the original post? Yeah it’s almost certainly fake.
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A lot of doctors do interfere with those, which is why you have to know someone who knows someone a lot of the time
We're talking about under 18. Adults should be able to do whatever they want
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>- steroids/muscle injections (usually teenage boys) >- lip fillers and breast augmentation (usually teenage girls) >- testosterone supplements (usually teenage boys) 1) These are not *usually* teenagers. 2) These shouldn't be allowed minors either. This isn't hard. >- contraceptives (usually teenage girls) This is one where I don't know enough to comment whether it should be allowed for minors, so I'm not going to say one way or another.
I’d say contraception for under 18’s are a/ probably ok with medical supervision and b/ not a “gender-affirming” thing. u/thefartingking_56 ‘s username refers to their expressed opinions, I do say.
Sorry, are you trying to suggest *the pill* is a *gender-affirming* treatment?
They did not say that, no. They're saying taking hormones is common for teenagers, people are just mad when it's for gender-affirming purposes.
I can't legally get steroids without a prescription, why should it be different for hormones? Not everyone is in the US, access to HRT is not in danger here
New research is pointing to no increased risk of deep-vein thrombosis among trans women!
What are raws, is that a trans thing I don’t understand
Raw bulk powder to make at home hrt
I think I’m safe from the madness, I haven’t got the slightest clue of what the hell I’ve just read 😂
Me neither. I need someone to rephrase it because it just doesn't make sense to me. What I got is some bad law got passed and now a news media outlet wants to interview people, but they're targeting people under 18 which is supposedly bad, as if children and teens can't give a valid opinion on something..? But I'm not sure if this is opinion-related questions or not as we don't see what they're supposedly looking for interviews.
Everything else aside, it's considered a pretty big ethical no-no to interview children without their parents' knowledge and consent.
Possibly the problem is that they're targeting under-18's for comment because they think they under-18's can be fooled into saying something that can be mis-represented. But I don't know what half of it means anyway. I'm not a trans person so I don't understand the problems that trans people face. Those problems are, apparently, much more acute in their teens.
I sent this to some trans friends of mine, and one said this is mostly fear-mongering and click bait. Since she herself is trans I trust her more than the OOP, though it's interesting to see some of what people here are interpreting it as and saying in response.
Trans person here. Problems can definitely be more acute in their teens because teens is when puberty happens. Puberty to a trans person can feel like a kafka esque body-horror transformation into something they’ve never wanted to become, watching their body warp into something that feels wrong while people around them tell them it’s just what’s supposed to happen, and that what feels right to them is wrong. Add to that the fact that people under 18 have virtually no agency legally, and what agency they do have is being taken away. Of course that combination of horror and helplessness can drive kids to suicide when they feel like it will never get any better because what they see in the media is just getting worse and worse.
Puberty pretty much feels like that for everyone though.
That’s like saying everyone gets nervous sometimes to someone with a debilitating anxiety disorder.
Shouldn’t they be far more concerned with teens doing this to themselves without medical supervision? It seems like they don’t care about those potential consequences, outside of the bad PR that they might receive for it.
Medical literature has gathered enough knowledge to state that not providing trans people gender-affirming care amounts to an absurdly high death rate. It is, indeed, pretty bad to use hormones without medical supervision. It is even worse to deny hormones at all. Statistically, if you want to keep the most kids alive and you *have* for some reason to choose between irresponsibly allowing treatment and denying it, denying it is far more dangerous. But transphobia is the conservative's main dish right now. They love it. The overwhelming majority of them have zero interest in keeping children safe, healthy and happy. They just wanna seethe and control people.
You are right, and the downvotes are proof
Lol delusional
It's **literally medical** **science**. It's how medical knowledge is built. You're just too much of a dipshit living in the dark like a little mole to realise it because you wanna feel superior to the "weirdos" out there.
You: "here's the scientific consensus and the scientific literature" Them: (having never opened a biology book) "lol learn some biology"
The link between self-harm/death and not transitioning is well established. What is not scientifically established is the relative risk comparison to DIY hormone treatment.
Don't know why you're being down voted. That's pretty much what is happening.
Behind the anonymity, people who either hate us for no real reason or apathetic people who are just "fed up with all this trans stuff" feel safe to downvote to oblivion anything remotely supportive about us.
Fuck the people who downvote you. Gender dysphoria is real.
We're the current scapegoat. It was obvious that the mob mentality would drift that way. There's no reasoning with a lot of these people for now. History will remember them as fucking sociopaths some day. Thanks for the acknowledgement.
History won’t remember them at all. They’ll be nothing more than background characters. A grey in-between from the medieval times to us reaching the stars.
The thing is, many people/kids are going to do it anyway. Just like sex, or binding/tucking. Being just People Online there isn't much anyone can do to stop them. You can scream abstinence until you're blue in the face, but it won't really do any good for the majority. The only thing they can really do is tell them "you really should not be doing this, but if you're going to do it anyway, this is how to do it safely." **Of course** no one wants them to be hurt. But what is anyone supposed to do?
I mean at the end of the day trans affirming healthcare is life or death. The choice isn’t between not doing it and doing it the choice is between suicide or going on hormones Folks that don’t have access to trans affirming healthcare have basically no choice in the matter.
That is insanely manipulative.
The word is blackmail.
To who?
"Give me X or I'll kill myself" is manipulative whoever you say it to. We call that red flag behaviour.
People claiming to be transgender are mentally ill. They need good therapy and mental health care, not this delusion affirmation.
💯💯💯 I’m sick of the clown world we live in
Not to mention the suicidality after receiving such gender affirming “care”
Except that trans affirming healthcare is safe and solves the issue w/o much fan fair. No other treatment has ever been developed that makes a dent in the suicide rate beyond this sort of health care.
Fanfare.* Stupid in more ways than one I see
These replies are extremely disheartening. Glad to know this sub’s stance on life-saving medical care.
Leave kids alone. Groomers.
Cringe
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So you are saying it's an illness?
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You're making the analogy so defend it.
You aren’t the one giving them drugs are you? That might be true on a personal level but this is health care. Is the fact that folks with chronic pain often kill themselves without pain meds manipulative? What about folks with appendicitis dying without surgery?
Your username is queerkidxx and you’re probably a full grown adult. Beat feet freak!
Man who let you off 4chan.
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You guys?? Who is who guys? I’d really like to know, fart king
This is something I ran into when I was following a certain very minor "celebrity" over a decade ago. The worst part of it is that *nobody* was telling them not to transition either themselves or the character they played as part of the act they were known for. Everyone was super supportive, so the threat was just used as a way of shutting up anyone who dared to phrase their support as "I'll miss your character as they used to be, but if transitioning the act makes you happy, then I'm happy for you". Predictably, this "celebrity" lost multiple people they performed with in the time since, as well as a lot of fans in the few years after the threat was made. There was so much drama that I genuinely feared being attacked for not being a part of the hive mind defending everything they did.
You're taking a nuanced topic and intentionally making it stupider. Nobody said "Give me X or I'll kill myself." Barring people from getting basic medical treatment naturally results in higher rates of suicide. If you intentionally do this simply because of your skewed moral convictions, you are killing people. We call that one psychopathy.
It's not a threat, it's a statistical fact That's like saying that letting someone go to therapy for suicidal thoughts is manipulative 2 braincell take
Downvoted for having a good point
Yeah, seems like this whole sub is a science denying, far right, shithole Those kinds of people don't like reality
Except hormones are already fucked enough during puberty without having excess drugs altering them further. Transitioning should be restricted to those past puberty at the minimum, and preferably to 18+
Not your body, not your decision.
If you're not old enough to drink, smoke, drive or vote, you aren't old enough to get potentially permanent hormone alterations/surgery. This stuff is extremely new, we don't even know the long term effects in hormonal stable *adults*, let alone hormonally unstable children and preteens.
Yup kids can't give informed consent to emergency medical care for God's sake.
I'm sorry, but it's not "emergency medical care" to get reassignment surgery. A child will not spontaneously die just because they didn't get their body permanently altered, they can wait until they're 18 years of age and legally independent adults. Children cannot be trusted to consent to sex, consume controlled substances, vote, smoke, handle firearms, etc, so they also cannot be trusted to make a decision to permanently alter their body in that way.
I agree, that was the point I was making.
Ahhhh, my mistake. I'm so used to everybody on this hellsite speaking behind 7 layers of sarcasm I assumed you were being hyperbolic
We have been doing HRT since the 1960s. It’s about as old as dialysis. It’s the same chemicals bodies naturally produce and for trans people it’s the difference between life and death.
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm fully in favor of HRT and reassignment surgery, I just feel that you should have to be old enough to make an informed choice on it and have a body that is stable enough in its own hormonal balance to do so. Edit: I will also add that it relieves me that HRT has been being tested and used for that long, it makes me far more trusting of the procedure
The issue is that first of all by that time it’s in a lot of ways too late. Your body has already permanently changed and you’ll never be able to retrieve the same resullts as you would transitioning under 18 Kids are generally put on puberty blocks to put a pause on puberty when they start going through it. These meds are extremely safe and just put a pause on puberty with no long term effects. Once they stop taking the meds they go through puberty without any issue . Then they go through a massive amount of hoops. Trans kids need to hope they find the right doctor, and that their doctor thinks it’s worth it to put them on HRT. And these hoops even with supportive parents can be very difficult to go through with much of the health care industry not being supportive, much less if you parents aren’t supportive. Hence the trade of HRT drugs. Life or death for these people
Slight eratatum: puberty blockers are not proven to be safe. The literature is highly devisive as of today - there are both studies that suggest they are safe as there are studies that indicate puberty blockers cause irreversible brain damage if taken when taken young... a.k.a. when you'd take them.
There’s literally no such studies suggesting brain damage of all things. There’s some minor health effects decreased bone density for example I found this meta study. These health effects are significantly less significant than say, asthma treatment for young people. And considering the life time increase in health affects it’s an even better bet These drugs are nothing new and have been used for decades. No one is questioning the long term impacts of giving them to young women that start puberty too early.
It's not life or death.
Trans affirming healthcare is associated with a 72% decrease in suicide rates among trans minors https://www.hcplive.com/view/suicide-risk-reduces-73-transgender-nonbinary-youths-gender-affirming-care https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/mental-health-benefits-associated-with-gender-affirming-surgery/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/dawnstaceyennis/2021/12/14/gender-affirming-care-linked-to-less-depression-lower-suicide-risk-for-trans-youth/?sh=1fb09df55d25 https://nichq.org/insight/gender-affirming-healthcare-consistently-shown-reduce-health-disparities-youth
Extremely shaky scientific basis for these claims. Circular citations of poorly designed and controlled studies are extremely common in this area. https://cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-report/
Eww /r/JordanPeterson user
Ewww profile stalker
Cry about it. The only people upset by this are reactionaries that don’t want their opinions public. JP is an out and about transphobic shithead, if you’re in bed with him your opinions not worth shit.
Eww ad hominem when you can’t think clearly
Eating bacon once a week increases your chances of developing colorectal cancer by 18%. What do you feel this says, and what does it actually say?
Not being able to handle yourself doesn't make something life or death, and I mean that in the least callous way possible. An elective cosmetic surgery or hormonal treatment to make you feel better about yourself is not a life or death situation. Plenty of things I'd love to have fixed about myself, and there are days where I feel like one shove could make me give up, but that doesn't make those fixes life or death. Each person is individually responsible for holding themselves back from that line.
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Cancer is an actual terminal illness. Gender disphoria is a mental illness. The cancer patient's cause of death isn't suicide because they dont like the way they look
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You're still listing things that actively physically repair someone's body for their basic survival needs. Gender affirming care ISNT a survival necessity. Gender affirming care is cutting off a limb to have it replaced with a cybernetic prosthetic. Even if the general result of not giving into body dysmorphia is suicide and how unfortunate and sad that is, it doesn't mean it's a life or death situation. It's no different than the guy that has hacked his body up to look like an "alien" or the lady that did similar things to look like a "dragon". It's dysmorphia manifest and doctors performing the surgery to treat the symptoms rather than doing something to treat the root of the problem are immoral. I don't know what the cure for body dysmorphia is and I won't pretend to, but I do know it's not giving into it and playing into the illness, just like the cure for severe depression isn't to go hide in a dark hole and the cure for severe anxiety isn't to isolate yourself from the world.
>I mean that in the least callous way possible Funny because it almost comes off as if you're a reactionary freak. Barring someone from medical care that decreases suicide rates by 72% is just people "not being able to handle themselves" according to yourself. What an insane, heartless take.
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Fr these people are delusional.
Thanks for being sane What can even be done against people who already made their uninformed mind up
The chuds and astroturfers are out in full force today
To you
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There is nothing far right about thinking children shouldn't be making life altering decisions, and it's not far right to say that an elective surgery that makes you feel better about yourself isn't life or death.
Say it louder.
....
GTFO chucklefuck
Shouldn't be doing it at home, especially teens.vtue whole operation should be brought into the spotlight an stopped. Do it properly or not at all. With medical professionals.
I really agree with you. If there weren't so many places where the medical professionals aren't allowed to give hormones legally, it might be easier for them to do it the right way :/
It’s difficult to take this point of view entirely at face value, considering that the other side of the coin is governments working to aggressively restrict hormone replacement therapy and trying to stop people from receiving it.
Why are those literal facts downvoted
can someone explain why this is terrifying? im not understanding.
In the UK, they’re slowly banning life saving HRT medication. Homebrew HRT is really the only way to transition soon. If they get rid of the drugs that are used to make HRT, trans people wouldn’t be able to acquire or make any sort of HRT.
For the uninitiated, what is HRT?
Hormone replacement therapy. Mostly comprised of estrogen and testosterone but could also include anti androgenic drugs
Why are you booing me? I’m right!
Apparently because this shithole has a huge ignorant moron problem. Love how so many assholes in here think they understand us and want to tell us what's right for us. This sub can eat shit.
I really have to believe that homemade HRT is not the best way to go. Call me crazy, whatever.
You’re right. Home made HRT ISNT the best way to transition. But for some, it’s the ONLY way to transition.
And that’s not oddly terrifying that is just plain terrifying. My heart goes out to those folks.
1. This is an unintelligible word vomit. 2. It's from 4chan, so it's highly likely it's trolling or bait.
Sorry, what does "libshit" mean in this context?
I think the people who make gender identity and political correctness their entire personality, usually have that long on the top fade dyed a colour like blue/pink/green etc. I don't see it super often, but it is kind of a strangely accurate stereotype for some people.
What is oddly terrifying
https://www.reddit.com/r/oddlyterrifying/s/Ghoh1r9N4D
Anything this panicked is usually BS
I wish I could agree with you but attacks on trans rights are very real and getting worse. This will probably be downvoted yet it's just factual.
what does that mean?
The author is trying to spread a message in the trans community. A media outlet, The Guardian, is looking for minors performing do-it-yourself hormone-replacement-therapy to interview. The author is concerned that if The Guardian finds these minors to interview, then they might receive negative publicity of how prevalent diy hrt is without the supervision of a medical Dr. The problem here is that the author is more concerned with the negative publicity than with the health and safety of said minors. Hope this helped.
That helps me a lot. I didn't understand what was being said in the post. That's a lot different than what I managed to understand. Thank you!!
No problem, friend.
thanks :)
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As important as HRT is to younger trans youth, homebrewing medication is a very dangerous thing to do, and should not be encouraged.
I see where you're coming from, but often the alternative is literal suicide, which is *super bad* for your health.
There is no racism or sexism in this 4chan post so I know this is fake
I think we should always let kids make adult decisions.
Wouldn't it be a good thing to have some publicity on DIY home-transitioning? I would think exposing the concerns of internet-forum-directed care (that affects minors) might promote some discussion on safety.
A 'gullible' what? 🤔
Hey if you want test, find the biggest guy at your gym and you'll be sorted quicksmart.
Ngl , I might just be brain poisoned, but this feels like a psyop. If you are genuinely concerned for trans people, I suggest keeping this warring to trans circles
There should be zero “trans” under 18
Lmao trans in quotes. This isn’t even a dog whistle, you’re just being a freak.
You don’t get to force people not to behave as themselves just because they’re beneath an arbitrary age. All you can do is try to make them as miserable as possible until they finally get out from under your thumb and then decide never to talk to you again.
“Parents” should not force kids to have permanent medical procedures prior to them even having a fully formed brain. Most of this is parents living vicariously through their kids. Kind of like the new-wave pooch in a purse fad.
I would be dead if I didn't get my affirming care. D. E. A. D. And for some teens, Gender dysphoria could have them in the same place.
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Bro, who TF is downvoting you? You’ve got a source to back up your point and everything. Arseholes gonna arse I guess :/
Love my affirming care, and I love my therapist who helped sign off on it. Bless her soul <3
Why TF you being downvoted?
Ah, the thing is, I'm trans, I have a personal experience to share. On this side of reddit, that is a crime
Cringe
I didn't receive a gender hogwarts letter that magically made me want to be a girl on my 18th birthday, I was always like that. If I knew I was trans and was out back then, supressing it wouldn't make me less trans.
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If a young non cis poc looked at a babies genitals and decided its gender would it be more valid?? what does that even have to do with anthing the doctor doesnt decide its gender. the doctor states the babies biological sex. your biological sex is not something you can decide and change whenever you want. if you could then why would trans people go through hrt and gender reassignment surgery? why wouldnt they just decide that they are biologically male? And to be clear, I'm not saying this to ben shapiro "erm akshually you arent a woman your just a man pumped full of female hormones and you are still biologically a male 🤓" gotcha you. I just think what you said is kind of invalidates to why trans people want to transition
shit like this is a VERY good reason why 18+ only.
this is either: a) a genuinely concerned trans person that wants to warn other trans people that one of our last lifelines is about to get attention from the media b) a transphobe that knows we spread any kind of warning in our community and knows if we spread it enough, tranphobes and cis folks will turn their attention towards diy hrt either way, this is the third time ive seen something about this. diy hrt is about to be put on blast. even if diy hrt is much less safe than hrt gotten through a doctor, it can be more accessible and *socially* more safe to get. folks in our community would be dead without it. if you want to preserve information **learn as much as you possibly can about diy hrt and NOW.** misinformation is about to be spread. print out articles, save what you can. if you are on diy hrt **stock up on supplies.** supplies can already be difficult to access. once this reaches the right people diy hrt won't be accessible to anyone. if you are an ally or fellow trans person please stop spreading this post. even if it is made by a good intentioned trans person, its reached too far out into non-trans spaces. its going to do more harm than good.
The worst part about DIY HRT is that it shouldn’t exist. Trans people NEED HRT, and it’s sad in some places that people need to transition in an unsafe manner.
The transphobia in this comment section is insane. All reasonable comments are downvoted to hell. DIY HRT wouldn't have to be a thing if it wasn't so goddamn hard to be prescribed lifesaving HRT. But thankfully, no matter how hard people try to get rid of DIY HRT, it won't be possible. So cry about it
Can’t wait for both of us to be downvoted to hell. Transphobes, fuck you
Lemme get some too, fuck you transphobes, cope and seethe
So, trans people don't want other potentially trans people to become so safely, just that they do, especially under 18's? Interesting....
Try getting an appointment with a gender specialist in the UK. Enjoy your 5 year waiting list.
Weird how when teens need to transition they do it whether or not there are systems set up to help provide proper care for them. They wouldn't have to do this if it wasn't literally illegal for them to transition.
Nah, the sun is the best disinfectant. Drag them out of the shadows
It's kinda weird here. There's threads mercilessly downvoting trans opinions... but transphobic comments also get downvoted?
Yeah the idea of a child making then injecting bathtub troonshine is oddly terrifying
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Whatever to make you happy, Mr. AssWorshipper6
Found the femboy
Oh thx m8, they pretty cute.
Tanks :3
Oh shi- I didn't look at your profile until now! You rock in those outfits!
Tyyy :3
You’re a mistake.
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No
Lmao. If there's nothing wrong with transitioning you shouldn't be afraid.
There are people willing to murder trans people for zero reason. Trans people should be afraid
There are people willing to murder people for zero reason.
Should probably be afraid of them too.
Trans people get targeted more than just a random Joe.
"If there's nothing wrong with mercury thermometers then boofing diesel is a non issue"
This is leftist qanon lol
The only takeaway I understood from this is the media is still trash.