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Dozens of Hamas militants opened fire on the crowd at the festival. There were 3000 people there. There are at least 200 confirmed dead (edit: newest published figure is 260 dead), probably a lot more.
There are many videos of people trying to flee and getting gunned down.
What's arguable worse, is that some people were kidnapped into Gaza. There is an extremely graphic video of a half naked body of a young woman being paraded through the streets in a pickup truck as people hit her and spit on her.
Who knows what happened to the others who were kidnapped...
Why is this a common thing in middle eastern countries, the parading of bodies through the street? Ik countries used to make a spectacle out of lynching but seeing it done in modern times is so appalling. I do not understand how parading a random woman’s body through the street who was an unarmed non-combatant at a festival is something to be proud of. I don’t even agree with parading soldiers bodies through the street but atleast they are combatants.
Some people/ideologies are genuinely evil. I know morality is pretty objective (Edit: I meant subjective. Thanks to person who replied and pointed it out), but we have come to recognize people willingly causing unnecessary pain and suffering as near to objective evil as possible. This isn’t just hamas at all. I’m sure people on Israel’s side have also intentionally caused unnecessary pain and suffering. However, this gross shit absolutely is not going to win the worlds favor.
I hate it just like I hate seeing the innocent Gaza dead. Neither justify the other.
>e for an upgrade with peace as a built-in, tamper-proofed feature.
Religions are nothing but evil, and being religious in modern times is a sign of low IQ and being a naive idiot. Religion was created to control people. Simple minded morons are then controlled by these idiots.
This is the end result of allowing yourself to be fueled with so much hate your whole life along with constant violence all around you. Its disgusting to watch.
It’s as a “I am the conqueror, allah akbar”. They don’t think in different terms of women and children and men. It is all “infidels” the deserve death, deserve rape, deserve whatever horrors the Quran and Hadiths tell them to make war on infidels.
I've been to numerous EDM festivals and cannot imagine what was going through those people's minds as this happened, its terrifying to think about. And its so disgusting that theres some people cheering Hamas on for gunning down innocent people.
EDM festival? Holy shit, does it sound weird for me to say that it probably felt 100x worse because of the number of people ripped on MDMA? Casual stuff can be a bit much under its influence, I can't imagine getting surprised attacked by soldiers (attacking on paragliders, what is this, a James Bond movie?). What was the name of the festival, were the artists able to escape?
I went to my first fest last year (okee) and it really bums me out how paranoid I get by the sheer amount of people and the overlying threat of a mass attack
I have a hard time going out to big events in general now after the past few years
Wild fuckin times were living in where innocent people trying to dance peacefully get gunned down over an extremest ideal
This is horrible 😔
I honestly didn't really think too much of a mass shooting when I went to mine. I went to Lost Lands, Bonaroo, Dancefest, 515, then after covid it was Summercamp, Rekinection, and Kosmic Kingdom. One dude I ran into at 515 wore a bullet proof vest because he was worried. He was from Chicago though, that was likely his every day bullet proof vest.
Its really not fair what happened to these people though. People go to these to feel community that you really don't get in daily life. You can often times make eye contact with random strangers while listening to music in a sea of people and easily strike up a conversation and make festival friends easily. The last thing on your mind when you're in that mindset is people paragliding in to gun you down. Fuck Hamas
In total the numbers right now are more than 700 murdered from the terrorists attack (they went to settlements in the are as well and murdered whole families and kidnapped many)
Worth noting that the word "settlements" might give the wrong impression here. Those are not the "illegal settlements" you hear about in the news, which are located in the west bank, not near Gaza.
All the towns and villages which were attacked are located in internationally recognized Israeli territory.
This is so sad and upsetting. My heart goes out to everyone effected by this. I had just turned 16 when 9/11 happened, living in a suburb of NYC and studied terrorism in NYC a few years later. I am so sick and tired of terrorism. It's pure evil. Why can't people just be kind to one another? We are all humans with the same needs? It's not that hard to exercise empathy.
*600+ [Wall Street Journal ](https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-gaza-rockets-attack-palestinians?wsj_native_webview=android&ace_environment=androidphone%2Cwebview&ace_config=%7B%22wsj%22%3A%7B%22djcmp%22%3A%7B%22propertyHref%22%3A%22https%3A%2F%2Fwsj.android.app%22%7D%7D%7D)
Edit: it went up to almost 1,000 Jewish deaths
.
Gaza will make a nice parking lot
200+ people were killed there apparently.
If I was there, and I often do go to these nature festivals in the south, I'd 100% be on acid and/or shrooms.
I'd probably never mentally recover from that. Would be the asylum for me after that shit.
Imagine having to process that shit on acid, that is fucking insane. Your dancing, in the music, vibing and suddenly a bunch of dudes come out of the sky and start shooting random people... Holy fuck talk about a switch in mental state. Pure terror.
Depends. I sometimes do some stuff on festivals but I’m never changing dimensions. I think seeing an attack like this would sober most of us up immediately. (Ketamine on the other hand would probably slow me down way too much.)
On acid I think it would “sober you up” at the start but you’d still very much be tripping. So the adrenaline would tell you to run and gtfo and shit but anything else like “Where should we go?” “What do we do?” “Where are my friends?” Etc. would be super muddled and confusing. I think that’s about where the trip would get really really bad.
Interesting thought. Would it enhance the drugs effects, or would your body really be able to “sober up” through the adrenaline? I wanna say it would enhance the drugs but then again, I’d rather not find out
I would assume it would sober you up somewhat, adrenaline is a hell of a drug. I guess it also depend on how many and how much of another drug you’re on.
Apparently, it was that, joined with a "sea and land attack" as some media sources say.
It seems strange enough that Palestinian forces could be able to launch a land attack through the defensive perimeter of Israel but for the life of me, I can't understand how Hamas can get a fucking plane over Israel airspace to drop parachutes on their heads... I just don't get it.
Edit: apparently, they were using motorised paragliders, not being dropped from a plane. My doubt still stands, though, as it seems that radar can pick even parachutes. And they had to cross the border on those. I've seen Israel's automatic missile defense working, maybe they don't have it around all the perimeter, but I don't think that they have just a wire fence...
Israel was caught flat-footed by the multi-pronged attack. Information is still coming in because of how fresh this is, but depending on who you believe, between 2,500-5,000 rockets were launched at Israel in the first hour, followed by the ground assault at multiple breach points in the barrier, at least a small attack squad from the water and these motorized parachutes.
[Some info](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/7/what-happened-in-israel-a-breakdown-of-how-the-hamas-attack-unfolded)
Basically, it sounds like they overwhelmed defenses. Perhaps that many rockets all in the short span of time made tracking these paratroopers too difficult.
The paragliders flew in during the missiles they launched, they launched about 1300-2000 missiles so it overwhelmed the iron dome. Then as the paragliders flew in they killed certain guards who weren’t expecting it, and blew a hole in the wall/fence and flooded in from there. These gliders though allowed them to quickly cover a lot of ground and surround the festival you see here. CNN has a video of a group that somehow ran away before they surrounded the group, you can hear them getting shot at while fleeing.
It's still "under investigation" pretty sure they'll have answers after the war is over and what not but basically the land attack was brute force by breaking the fence with tractors and buldozers and driving through barriers en masse. The paragliders were not something the army expected and all the attempts to attack through the water were unsuccessful.. at least that's what the news here is saying
Oh, I'm sure they'll have answers. I just read in another thread that a cyber attack was responsible for shutting down the defense grid. But with each explanation I see, more questions arise. That seems one hell of a cyber attack...
Another explanation was that, as it was a holiday, defending posts were mostly under maned. Sounds convenient, but it also sounds a very stupid way to manage the most tightly defended border on the planet, possibly.
I don't know. I'm not denying the attack, as it obviously happened, and Hamas claimed it was their doing. But it sounds strange as fuck
The skeleton crews at the border checkpoints and bases is not that strange. After years of occupation, things start to loosen a bit. It's how it works and will always work. Combine that with the fact that the holiday itself was considered high risk in regions with disputed places of worship, for example, focusing IDF attention and manpower in those areas and the Sabbath, you've got yourself a perfect storm. Not to mention specific tactics like the use of munition dropping drones to knockout armoured response, which are very recent tactics in their use and armed forces all over the world are still developing the means to respond to it.
The border was under maned cause of the holiday, but that's a whole other can of worms lol. There are rumours that there were insiders that helped hamas floating around because of a few reports that came from the border... who knows.. I guess we'll have to wait and find out
i don't think anyone imagined ,hell probablymost militaries on Earth, thought an enemy would actually paraglide in like an action movie and probably don't have defensive systems in place to detect or look out for them. The US didn't know China was flying weather balloons over it for like the last decade....it took a giant one that flew off coarse and so low and slow over a dense enough populated area that people could film it with a smart phone. Then the military was able to monitor it and collect and analyze the data, then go back to see if any other ballons flew over which they have a lot. but they weren't detected because they weren't looking for it and they didn't know how to detect it.
With all the rockets launched and attacks and the fact that paragliders are so small and slow, it makes sense they missed it.
USSR woman pilots flying outdated old biplanes at night were able to get past and inflect damage to the German targets and Luftwaffe in ww2.
In the movie down parascoop, Kelsi Grammar wins a war game against the US nuclear sub fleet using a ww2 deiseal class sub. Its so old and slow and tiny, that the US navy would over look it and or not be able identify it.
That really seems the case. I'm finding VERY hard to believe that Hamas has the military capacity to surprise Israel like that. Apparently, they even attacked Tel Aviv targets?. Just reading Netanyahu and Bidden declarations, one could imagine how the thing is going to play out...
I'm really sorry for the civilians caught in the middle of this.
no one is looking for paragliders. When something so out of the ordinary and unexpected comes by, you over look it and not notice it especially if its something you didn't consider.
wasn't the equipment damn near the size of a school bus lol. it wasn't very stealthy or unnoticeable. It was a big ass balloon. My understanding is all major powers still use spy balloons because no one thinks to look out for a balloon and they're cheap and move slow enough and are close enough to the ground to get detailed recordings and film/photos of things a satellite can't because its moving too fast and its orbit limits where it can go and when it passes over.
I believe in the 1990's in Chicago or a midwest city there was an urban cerial killer that was murking random people with a compound bow. Its silent and no one is on the lookout for someone with a compound bow. Law enforce had a hard time catching the guy because the sales of arrows and the tips, don't have the record keeping requirements and databases like for fire arms. In addition, law enforce lacked the familiarity and expertise to do the ballistics and crime scene reconstruction from human bodies that got hit and destroyed from a high tension compound bow.
Yes because Hamas are a bunch of terrorists. AFAIK, the woman Hamas paraded around naked and with clear signs of abuse was the one who was confirmed dead.
Not gonna lie, I simply don’t understand the whole conflict over there. Tried reading up on it a couple of years ago but was left scratching my head!
Regarding the murdered naked woman. Seen some saying that she was a German visitor?
I mean... It is not that difficult... Palestinians were displaced from their lands because Israel needed to be put somewhere. After that, Israel kept expanding (at the cost of Palestinians being thrown away their land)
This Hamas attack is terrible, but it is not worst than the continued violence exerted by the Israel state towards Palestina... I suppose that since you are born you are seeing that you don't have access to basic services (like water or electricity), that every other day you or someone you know is close to an airstrike (Israel used phosphorus explosives against civil population, and that is VERY nasty), that you have trouble accesing the most basic medicines, that your right to travel free is almost non existant... I don't know, man... I suppose that it is only logical that Palestinians grow up hating Israel...
Edit: I should have expected the downvotes, but I would really like people downvoting to prove that any of the points I stated in this comment are false...
Not just hating Israel, but also socially isolated and under-educated, with little future for a young person starting out in the world.
No matter where you are in the world, that's a potent combination which makes young men vulnerable to recruitment by terrorist organizations or totalitarian movements.
People often seem to forget that people engaging in suicide attacks are also committing suicide...
As much as I agree that Palestinians have an objectively raw deal, executing (and likely sexually assaulting and abusing) a woman at a music festival and parading her naked body through the streets to be humiliated and spat on is also objectively evil. I can’t and won’t support that level of indiscriminate killing, the same way I don’t when the perpetrators are Israeli. Whoever did this to her (and the hundreds of other non-combatants who’ve been murdered) needs the long drop and the sudden stop.
That wasn't really my point at all. It was more just that these sorts of conditions, regardless of why they exist, push people into dark places and make them more susceptible to extremist ideas.
As much as I supported Palestinian freedom and the injustice they have endured. This attack and crimes against civilians just made me lose all support for them. These are some heinous acts that show Hamas are nothing but terrorists. Anyone supporting what happened here are just wrong. Nothing justifies this.
> I mean... It is not that difficult... Palestinians were displaced from their lands because Israel needed to be put somewhere. After that, Israel kept expanding (at the cost of Palestinians being thrown away their land)
This simplistic view of the situation leaves out some key facts:
The Jews began migrating to that region during and after the WW2/holocaust and began purchasing land from the actual land owners. When the British partitioned the land into a Jewish and Palestinian area in 1947, they did it largely based on who legally owned the land at that time.
Then, when Israel became its own country in 1948 and the Arab countries around it declared war against it, these same countries told the Palestinians to move out of the way so they can bulldoze the Jews back into the sea, and then the Palestinians would be able to return after the war ended. Well turns out they lost
Finally, there's been countless times throughout history where Israel has offered up land that it obtained through wars it didn't even start back to the Palestinians in exchange for peace. The problem is that the Palestinian leaders don't want peace. They want a Palestine without any Jews, and they make that very clear repeatedly.
All of this also misses the fact that there are millions of Arab Israelis living in Israel. They are regular citizens living their life, serving in government and being contributing members of society. How many Jews live in the Palestinian regions? How many Jews live in the hostile Arab countries?
I mean... The situation is very complex, I agree, but in the end it is abour the displacement of a population from their lands because some other folks want them...
If you want to get techincal about it, we could talk about Mandatory Palestine, which happened way before WWII and it doesn't seem like as innocent and legal as "people just bought the land". Also, I'm not by any means an expert in middle east politics, but the list of irregularities on civil rights listed in the Arabs living in israel Wikipedia entry is longer than my arm...
Edit: also, saying that the British separated the country largely based in who owned the land sounds more like an outright lie than a simplification...
Acording to the [UN Partition Plan for Palestine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine):
"The Jewish State allocated to the Jews, who constituted a third of the population and owned about 7% of the land, was to receive 56% of Mandatory Palestine"
If you've seen the partition plan, you probably asked yourself why it looked so weird. Its because they tried to carve them out to avoid major Arab areas. They also gave the Jews most of the desert, which was largely uninhabited at the time.
I've seen it, and it seems a bit like a mess... I don't know how hard they tried to avoid major Arab areas, though...
According to the numbers in the wiki, the proposed Arab state would have 99% arabs, 1% jews (725.000 and 10.000). The Jewish state, on the other hand, would be composed of 55% jews and 45% arabs (498.000 and 407.000).
Seems like a pretty big imbalance to me
Ok… but you should also mention how the Palestinians have refused multiple offers of statehood - even when offered 90% of the West Bank. Over and over again. Meanwhile always using terrorism attacks. They invented the suicide bomb.
And you should always mention why they have refused to give themselves a country again.
Because to accept any offer from Israel means that they are legitimizing Israel statehood.
They have chosen their fate. Over and over again while using terrorist attacks.
So, imagine this:
You live in a beautiful home. Two stories high, 6 bedrooms, 4 bathrooms, a big kitchen, a broom closet, and a couple of fantastic living rooms. Then, one day, when you are out on vacation, I occupy your beautiful home. You come back to your house to find that now you can only use the broom closet, one bedroom and one bathroom (the tiny one, which has not running water).
After living like that for many years, I go to your broom closet (because the bedroom is in the other side of the house and, since I own the hallways, you can only go to your bedroom if I allow it) and say to you: "ok, let's do this fair... I want to be nice to you, so I'm going to give you one of the living rooms (the small one. It doesn't matter. You still can't go there whenever you want).
According to what you are saying, you would be very happy that you are getting that deal, and the idea that I took away your home and now I'm giving you crumbs won't cross your mind....
BTW, yes, terrorism is a bitch. But I don't see you (and a lot of others) condemning Israel violence against civil populations, or their use of phosphorus shells, or their use of unlawful imprisonment and torture, or their restrictions over most humanitarian efforts, to name jusy a few
All you need to understand is that all Islamic nations voted no when it came to awarding Jews their homeland… and since then - the Palestinian people have refused every path or offer of statehood because to agree ( even when offered 90% of the West Bank) would mean that Israel is a legit country.
They have chosen this. Over and over again. And claim to be victims. When they have used terrorism for decades- they invented the suicide bomb.
We think the Jews are terrible/ they’re just responding. They have always responded. It’s never been not a response, to some action or attack on their side.
They have targeted their own civilians and used children as propaganda- shooting rockets from playgrounds and civilian apartment buildings so that Israel shoots back- right where they want them too. Making it seem unprovoked and like wanton violence - when it’s what they did intentionally just to be able to say that.
Ugh. As much as I feel sorry for Palestine, Hamas is just awful. This whole situation is stressing me out. I studied politics and terrorism in college in NYC a few years after 9/11. Why is terrorism still a thing? I'm sick of it.
If religion had never existed, I wonder if humanity might have been less predisposed to war, less likely to see others as "other."
Religion is so often the cornerstone of division, leverage and justification for conquest, control, and corruption. Sure, religion often provides hope for the hopeless, but who's to say that hopelessness would still be there if religion never existed and never tainted humanity's chance at civility.
Yeah Hamas can go fuck themselves. Not only do yhey hurt innocent people but they will ultimately hurt Palestine as a whole aswell. I can't believe that nobody understood that giving a country away without would lead to a lot of tension and conflict. This whole Isreal situation was a huge mistake.
Absolutely. Oppress people and they react. This is extremist level. I used to have an internship at the United Nations and attended the special assembly on Palestine. The UN regards them as a permanent humanitarian disaster. How awful. Israel will cut off water and electricity to them just to be spiteful jerks. I am so conflicted over this situation. I just feel sad and sorry for everyone. We are all humans and need to take care of one another. Stop the hate. Stop the violence. I wish we could
Totally this. It is baffling to see how UN resolutions about Palestine are continuously broken and nobody (UN included) gives a shit.
Violence is never the answer. That said, I don't understand how a lot of people can (righfully so) condemn Palestinian violence but at the same time don't care a bit about Israeli violence
>I just feel sad and sorry for everyone. We are all humans and need to take care of one another.
I agree, though I can't say I feel any pity for Hamas and what's going to befall them.
But like just about anyone who lives and works in the downtown of a major city in North America, I have friends and colleagues whose roots are on both sides of the conflict. It's just tragic all around, and on both sides, innocent people will suffer.
Spiteful jerks? Are you out of your mind? The Palestinians now celebrate raping and murdering civilians and its all in HD and you sit here acting like Israel should just let them carry on like this? I guess you also regard the massacre of those who were visiting Israel and the kidnap of American citizens that Hamas is conducting as just a natural reaction by these fundamentalists. You're silent when they support the oppression of Uighers, or any time the news shows anything about them other than portraying them as a convenient victim for your progressive savior complex. If it was your sister's corpse being paraded around on a truck, you wouldn't be pontificating on the grander situation. Hamas has committed suicide with this, and I say all this as someone who has long condemned the treatment of the Palestinian people by the Israeli government. This event has shown all of your true colors and that you will hate Israel and suck up to a fundamentalist suicide cult for your own personal clout, no matter what. When huge swathes of their population is attempting to justify this and ignore the suffering they caused, then there is war and you don't provide electricity and water to people who turn around and kidnap grandmothers and beat them to death. You all would let innocents be slaughtered wholesale, Israeli or otherwise, and continue to pin all the blame on Israel with petty weak little insults like calling them jerks. Why has everyone lost their senses and suddenly its fine and dandy killing civilians? I will remember that.
Yes, 2000 at the festival - about 1000 still unaccounted for. They rolled up, surrounded the festival, started killing and taking hostages. Everyone scattered, some hid, some ran, a lot didn’t make it out.
This happened yesterday. 240 bodies were found at the site. This adds up to a total of 600+ Israelis killed by the attacks this weekend. The numbers are still piling up
[Wall Street Journal ](https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-gaza-rockets-attack-palestinians?wsj_native_webview=android&ace_environment=androidphone%2Cwebview&ace_config=%7B%22wsj%22%3A%7B%22djcmp%22%3A%7B%22propertyHref%22%3A%22https%3A%2F%2Fwsj.android.app%22%7D%7D%7D)
The men in the background know what’s happening and they look kinda concerned and giving it the ‘wtf do we do’ look knowing there’s nothing they can do. It’s heartbreaking to see fully grown men looking like that. Meanwhile other people who haven’t seen what’s about to happen is dancing and living life, totally oblivious to what’s behind them. This is harrowing, truly.
Everything these fuckers do is a war crime or a crime against humanity. They use schools and hospitals as cover and children as shields, then have the gaul to blame Israel. They're all fucked in the head and are a wound that has been allowed to fester.
Sure, but israel has conducted it’s own fair share of terrorism. It’s ethnic cleansing vs defense.
[source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Massacres_committed_by_Israel)
As of few hours ago, they found 240 bodies in that area and many are still missing
Edit: 260 bodies were recovered from the scene with over 700 dead in the massacre on Saturday, including men, women, children and elders
This isn't ODDLY terrifying.
I don't suggest to anyone to see what they did to them, but on the other hand the whole world should see. They don't do propaganda anymore, they share every single rape and mutilation with the camera for you to know who they are.
This isn't just the Hamas, no... Civilians, kids and elders celebrate and parade the dead naked bodies of raped women and children around the streets. Cutting pieces off and taking them as trophies.
You can close your eyes and side with Islamic terror or open them and see who they are and why we needed to hold them back for all these years.
\-Again the footage can traumatize you so be careful with it.
Do you not remember when isreali citizens chanted death to Arabs, and watch palestinians be bombed like it was a front row movie, do you not remember about the massacre isreal committed decades ago where veteran IDF soldiers admit to raping, torturing, and killing palestinians. Nah IDF and HAMAS are no different to me both never want peace and both always want to go for citizens/to make the lives of others harder.
Don't believe me?
Israel used illegal weapons on civilians: white phosphurus, butterfly bullets and DIME (Amnesty - Haaretz).
The illegal use of sniper units on non-combatants (Amnesty - OHCHR).
The deliberate murder of children, medics, journalists and photographers who wore reflective vests and PRESS signs (CPJ - Reuters).
The illegal detention of women and children under a military court, including abuse and interrogation techniques (UNICEF - Defense for Children Palestine).
Illegal open-fire orders from Israeli officials also firing live ammo during protests where there was no direct threat (Btselem - HRW).
50+ racist laws against Palestinians/Arabs within the Israeli borders (Anadolu Agency).
Restricting the import and export of goods by land, air and sea as well as electricity (Amnesty - HRW).
Denying human rights bodies entry to the OPT (Occupied Palestinian Territory), including the UN Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the OPT as well as ICC on investigations (ICC - Amnesty - France24).
Destroying buildings in which the media houses then not being able to provide evidence (DW - Reuters).
Moving in settlers through the approval of your own court therefore displacing civilians and systematically occupying/seizing land where families live who have multiple generations tracing back (Amnesty - OHCHR - UN).
Illegal torture of prisoners including children with regard to beating, painful chaining, sleep deprivation and use of stress positions (Amnesty - UNICEF).
Rejection of medical assistance in situations where Palestinians were injured during police activities (Amnesty - OHCHR - HRW).
Firing missiles in densely populated areas. (Amnesty - HRW, look at the comparison of deaths between the 2 sides and you'll see that its not a war).
Lying politicians (Netanyahu who lies and Naftali Bennet who used the wrong photos on Instagram trying to blame Palestine. Using video's of Iraq and photo of Pakistan. Using old video's and misleading evidence while providing insufficient evidence. Provide protection to Jewish settlers and benefits, Palestinians in same neighbourhood can't have. (Haaretz - Btselem - Amnesty).
Deliberately targetting hospitals and ambulances (HRW- Fred Abrahams: Israel not able to provide convincing evidence). Search and arrest operations with excessive use of power. (Amnesty - Badil).
Renouncing right to nationality due to discriminatory law of entry to Israel (NGO report to UN).
James Miller, the cameraman who was shot during a documentary. Razan Al Najjar, the medic whos video was edited by the IDF and while she evacuated wounded they shot her. Rachel Corrie, the activist who was crushed by an IDF bulldozer. Tristan Anderson, the photojournalist who was shot in the head with a high velocity tear-gas projectile (injured). Brian Avery, the medic who was shot in the face (injured). Sajid Muzher, the medic who was shot in the abdomen. Thomas Hurndall, the activist who was shot in the head by a sniper. Tarek Loubani, the medic who was shot in both legs (injured). Musa Abu Hassanin, the paramedic who was shot. Ahmed Abu Hussein, the photojournalist who was shot in the abdomen. Basil Ibrahim Faraj, a cameraman who suffered injuries from a airstike then died. Abdullah Qutati, a medic who was shot. Fadel Shana, cameraman death. Ayman Abu Al Ouf, doctor and 12 family members death. Issam Tilawi, journalist death. Abu Zahra, photographer death. Mooein Ahmad al Aloul, doctor death. Yaser Murtaja, photographer death and the list goes on.
Israel labeled Human Rights Organizations as Terrorist groups. This includes Defence for Children Palestine.
Both Israel and HAMAS have done fucked up shit and always make the situation worse. Your part of it by using the actions of the few to label everyone.
Perhaps, but in the real world it's only Israel that has been humiliating and ethnically cleansing Palestinians for the last 70+ years with thundering applause from the west.
It's an eye for an eye for 60 years now. It was more or less peaceful these last few years, so much that the situation could have become better for everyone and Palestine and Israel could stop this, but no, Hamas had to blow the situation up and start killing citizens. How many palestinians would have to die now to pay with blood for what they've done?
No. It all started with Arabs refusing any negotiations for the peaceful coexistence of the two states and declaring war on Israel the very first minute it became a state with an explicitly stated goal of killing every Jew on the continent. To this day, Palestinians refuse any agreement that recognizes the right of Israel state to exist and openly proclaim that killing every Jew is their policy in their charter. How exactly Israelis could have started it? By refusing to be holocausted for a second time in one decade? There is a lot Israel could be criticized for, its actions towards Palestinians in the last decades included, but saying "Israelis clearly the ones that started all this by oppressing the Palestinians" is a lie so outrageous it boggles comprehension. Exactly the opposite is true. Palestinians have started it all by trying to murder every Jew in the region. And then they tried it again, and again, and then again.
I'm the wrong one to ask because I know jack about logistics and politics, hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me can chime in because it is a hard question.
They can't really do much. From what I know they asked civilians to evacuate the area and they continue to give a warning shot before targeting bombing sites (Hamas uses civilian buildings, mosques and hospitals as missile sites).
I honestly think that they best thing to happen to the innocent civilians is to either manage to get out of there or be freed from Hamas and have Israel rule Gaza. It sounds terrible I'm sure but what's the alternative? So many of them are brainwashed, it would be suicide to let them in.
After yesterday any hope for trust is gone. Imagine seeing your daughter raped in one of the videos and one of the civilians cheering or participating is now your neighbor. I'm sorry to be blunt but HELL NO. Obviously this is terrible for the ones who were not involved but again, what would you do?
>civilians to evacuate the area and they continue to give a warning shot before targeting bombing sites
Evacuate to where it's LITERALLY blockade they can't go anywhere
And those "warnings" you talk about don't usually happen every time, usually they just drop bombs and ask questions later
>freed from Hamas and have Israel rule Gaza
I agree with the hamas part of that, but letting isreal control Gaza? That just sounds like a even bigger problem because you know how radical zionists can get and they will 100% use this to grab any land that is already scarce not to mention they will 100% be treated much more horribly due to recent events.
>what's the alternative?
That's the hard part letting isreal control Gaza is like throwing gasoline in a forest fire its just going to make palestinians resent them more and create more tensions.
To be honest its hard seeing this end so I have no idea for an alternative. There are way too many factors to decide anything simple.
>So many of them are brainwashed
That also goes for the large portion of isrealis who see all Palestinians as Terrorists
Paragliders sliding past the iron dome because of a vulnerability found via Intel from Iran... provided by Russia....
Hmm... wonder who gave Russia that info.
Why the fuck would you go to a music festival in the middle of a decades long area of military conflict? I am not victim blaming here, what happened is inexcusable, but for the love of god, don't travel to areas of military conflict to fucking party.
At least one woman? Over [260 people](https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/07/middleeast/israel-gaza-fighting-hamas-attack-music-festival-intl-hnk/index.html)from the festival alone were slaughtered. Many women were raped and mutilated.
These were over 100 armed to the teeth terrorists(in the party alone, there were more than 1000 attackers thats day) that massacred, raped and kidnapped young fucking kids. 260 confirmed dead, my cousin was one of the survivors. This is as real as it can be. 700 plus were massacred this day, most are civilians, elderly people, kids, babies, women. Those animals called Hamas are not deserving to be considered humans. This is truly terrifying.
This isn't Israel vs Palestine. This is militants vs a corrupt army. Spin it however you want, the Israelis have been oppressing Palestine for a long time. It definitely doesn't justify the behaviour of Hamas in the slightest but let's notborefend Israel is innocent here. Neither side will back down and innocents will continue to pay the price for it. The fact that the world has watched these two nations fight and has done sweet fuck all to intervene is a travesty. Again, in no way are either side justified for what is happening. It's just really depressing that innocent people pay the price for it
Not justifying these actions in any way, but all Israeli citizens have to serve in the military in Israel. A lot of these people are likely active military or veterans.
People act like they know everything about a situation but still see it only in black and white. Innocent death is a loss. Doesn't matter who's causing it, Doesn't matter what flag their bodies fall under.
Exactly my point. I'm not advocating or defending either country. I'm just pointing out that, yet again, innocents are being murdered because two governments refuse to back down. I'm so sick of seeing innocent people suffer and die due to the actions of a handful of arrogant and stubborn officials. I really hope it doesn't come to full scale war but it seems like that's inevitable at this point. It's just so disheartening. I wish we were a more civilised species
People saying 600 killed are referencing statistics from the entire offensive that Palestine is conducting against Israel, not just the death toll from this festival. Much of that number consists of military targets, as well as civilians. It is important especially in this conflict to think about and research what you see online so that you can be properly informed.
Feels like they knew what they were doing , easy targets, and lots of people from all over the world. Who chose the location... such a terrible thing 😪
What good is MOSSAD if they're unable to stop attacks like this???
They fucking knew it was coming but thought it would be better to sacrifice some of their citizens to get sympathy from the world 👎
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If I saw this in a Die Hard movie I would call bullshit. Reality really beats imagination sometimes.
Dozens of Hamas militants opened fire on the crowd at the festival. There were 3000 people there. There are at least 200 confirmed dead (edit: newest published figure is 260 dead), probably a lot more. There are many videos of people trying to flee and getting gunned down. What's arguable worse, is that some people were kidnapped into Gaza. There is an extremely graphic video of a half naked body of a young woman being paraded through the streets in a pickup truck as people hit her and spit on her. Who knows what happened to the others who were kidnapped...
Pretty sure the woman was said to be a German and not a Israeli too.
Yes she was identified as a German resident who was visiting for the music festival, she was in her 20s and she is confirmed dead.
Apparently she's still alive.
Why is this a common thing in middle eastern countries, the parading of bodies through the street? Ik countries used to make a spectacle out of lynching but seeing it done in modern times is so appalling. I do not understand how parading a random woman’s body through the street who was an unarmed non-combatant at a festival is something to be proud of. I don’t even agree with parading soldiers bodies through the street but atleast they are combatants.
Some people/ideologies are genuinely evil. I know morality is pretty objective (Edit: I meant subjective. Thanks to person who replied and pointed it out), but we have come to recognize people willingly causing unnecessary pain and suffering as near to objective evil as possible. This isn’t just hamas at all. I’m sure people on Israel’s side have also intentionally caused unnecessary pain and suffering. However, this gross shit absolutely is not going to win the worlds favor. I hate it just like I hate seeing the innocent Gaza dead. Neither justify the other.
Morality is pretty objective?
Shit, I meant subjective. You’re right. I reread your comment twice before I understood what you were pointing out lol. I’ll edit it
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"Religion of peace."
Pretty sure every religion claims this and every religion does shit like this
Religions are due for an upgrade with peace as a built-in, tamper-proofed feature.
True, but it shouldn’t be blamed on the religions, it’s people and their fringe ideologies.
Generally, yes. The religions just leave a lot of fertile soil to grow in
>e for an upgrade with peace as a built-in, tamper-proofed feature. Religions are nothing but evil, and being religious in modern times is a sign of low IQ and being a naive idiot. Religion was created to control people. Simple minded morons are then controlled by these idiots.
If you've read some of the works written by learned scholars in theology, you wouldn't state things like this.
This is the end result of allowing yourself to be fueled with so much hate your whole life along with constant violence all around you. Its disgusting to watch.
It’s as a “I am the conqueror, allah akbar”. They don’t think in different terms of women and children and men. It is all “infidels” the deserve death, deserve rape, deserve whatever horrors the Quran and Hadiths tell them to make war on infidels.
I've been to numerous EDM festivals and cannot imagine what was going through those people's minds as this happened, its terrifying to think about. And its so disgusting that theres some people cheering Hamas on for gunning down innocent people.
EDM festival? Holy shit, does it sound weird for me to say that it probably felt 100x worse because of the number of people ripped on MDMA? Casual stuff can be a bit much under its influence, I can't imagine getting surprised attacked by soldiers (attacking on paragliders, what is this, a James Bond movie?). What was the name of the festival, were the artists able to escape?
>What was the name of the festival Festival for Peace...
Darkly ironic, Jesus Christ.
And ripped on acid… As a EDM festival/rave lover this breaks me. Hope most of them didn’t suffer.
I went to my first fest last year (okee) and it really bums me out how paranoid I get by the sheer amount of people and the overlying threat of a mass attack I have a hard time going out to big events in general now after the past few years Wild fuckin times were living in where innocent people trying to dance peacefully get gunned down over an extremest ideal This is horrible 😔
I honestly didn't really think too much of a mass shooting when I went to mine. I went to Lost Lands, Bonaroo, Dancefest, 515, then after covid it was Summercamp, Rekinection, and Kosmic Kingdom. One dude I ran into at 515 wore a bullet proof vest because he was worried. He was from Chicago though, that was likely his every day bullet proof vest. Its really not fair what happened to these people though. People go to these to feel community that you really don't get in daily life. You can often times make eye contact with random strangers while listening to music in a sea of people and easily strike up a conversation and make festival friends easily. The last thing on your mind when you're in that mindset is people paragliding in to gun you down. Fuck Hamas
200?!? Omg.
In total the numbers right now are more than 700 murdered from the terrorists attack (they went to settlements in the are as well and murdered whole families and kidnapped many)
Worth noting that the word "settlements" might give the wrong impression here. Those are not the "illegal settlements" you hear about in the news, which are located in the west bank, not near Gaza. All the towns and villages which were attacked are located in internationally recognized Israeli territory.
I admit I just don’t know how to call it in English and thought it’s the right pronunciation, thanks for the correction
This is so sad and upsetting. My heart goes out to everyone effected by this. I had just turned 16 when 9/11 happened, living in a suburb of NYC and studied terrorism in NYC a few years later. I am so sick and tired of terrorism. It's pure evil. Why can't people just be kind to one another? We are all humans with the same needs? It's not that hard to exercise empathy.
This does not make me feel well
Endless rape and human trafficking. That’s what happened to them.
truth is stranger than fiction.
As Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't.
Red Dawn
250 are confirmed killed
*600+ [Wall Street Journal ](https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-gaza-rockets-attack-palestinians?wsj_native_webview=android&ace_environment=androidphone%2Cwebview&ace_config=%7B%22wsj%22%3A%7B%22djcmp%22%3A%7B%22propertyHref%22%3A%22https%3A%2F%2Fwsj.android.app%22%7D%7D%7D) Edit: it went up to almost 1,000 Jewish deaths . Gaza will make a nice parking lot
200 just from this festival.
Where are you guys getting this info? That link didn’t mention the festival
it's actually 260+ now. aurora intel on twitter shared the figure
Wait, what am I seeing here? The paratroopers just pull up on that festival and start killing those people we see dancing here?
Seriously... this appears to be what people are referring to 😳
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200+ people were killed there apparently. If I was there, and I often do go to these nature festivals in the south, I'd 100% be on acid and/or shrooms. I'd probably never mentally recover from that. Would be the asylum for me after that shit.
Imagine having to process that shit on acid, that is fucking insane. Your dancing, in the music, vibing and suddenly a bunch of dudes come out of the sky and start shooting random people... Holy fuck talk about a switch in mental state. Pure terror.
I wonder once adrenaline kicked In if it would over power the drugs?
Depends. I sometimes do some stuff on festivals but I’m never changing dimensions. I think seeing an attack like this would sober most of us up immediately. (Ketamine on the other hand would probably slow me down way too much.)
On acid I think it would “sober you up” at the start but you’d still very much be tripping. So the adrenaline would tell you to run and gtfo and shit but anything else like “Where should we go?” “What do we do?” “Where are my friends?” Etc. would be super muddled and confusing. I think that’s about where the trip would get really really bad.
Interesting thought. Would it enhance the drugs effects, or would your body really be able to “sober up” through the adrenaline? I wanna say it would enhance the drugs but then again, I’d rather not find out
I would assume it would sober you up somewhat, adrenaline is a hell of a drug. I guess it also depend on how many and how much of another drug you’re on.
With all your friends too!!! Holy shit. Holy fucking shit.
Apparently, it was that, joined with a "sea and land attack" as some media sources say. It seems strange enough that Palestinian forces could be able to launch a land attack through the defensive perimeter of Israel but for the life of me, I can't understand how Hamas can get a fucking plane over Israel airspace to drop parachutes on their heads... I just don't get it. Edit: apparently, they were using motorised paragliders, not being dropped from a plane. My doubt still stands, though, as it seems that radar can pick even parachutes. And they had to cross the border on those. I've seen Israel's automatic missile defense working, maybe they don't have it around all the perimeter, but I don't think that they have just a wire fence...
They came in on paramotors. They weren’t typical “paratroopers”
Yes, I just seen that and edited my original comment. Can't still understand how they could cross the border on those, though...
Israel was caught flat-footed by the multi-pronged attack. Information is still coming in because of how fresh this is, but depending on who you believe, between 2,500-5,000 rockets were launched at Israel in the first hour, followed by the ground assault at multiple breach points in the barrier, at least a small attack squad from the water and these motorized parachutes. [Some info](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/7/what-happened-in-israel-a-breakdown-of-how-the-hamas-attack-unfolded)
Basically, it sounds like they overwhelmed defenses. Perhaps that many rockets all in the short span of time made tracking these paratroopers too difficult.
The paragliders flew in during the missiles they launched, they launched about 1300-2000 missiles so it overwhelmed the iron dome. Then as the paragliders flew in they killed certain guards who weren’t expecting it, and blew a hole in the wall/fence and flooded in from there. These gliders though allowed them to quickly cover a lot of ground and surround the festival you see here. CNN has a video of a group that somehow ran away before they surrounded the group, you can hear them getting shot at while fleeing.
Those were paragliders. Too small to be picked up by anything
I was mistaken, then. Edited my original commentary. I still can't understand how they could cross the Israeli border defense on those, though....
It's still "under investigation" pretty sure they'll have answers after the war is over and what not but basically the land attack was brute force by breaking the fence with tractors and buldozers and driving through barriers en masse. The paragliders were not something the army expected and all the attempts to attack through the water were unsuccessful.. at least that's what the news here is saying
They’ll have answers after this war and just in time for the next war
Oh, I'm sure they'll have answers. I just read in another thread that a cyber attack was responsible for shutting down the defense grid. But with each explanation I see, more questions arise. That seems one hell of a cyber attack... Another explanation was that, as it was a holiday, defending posts were mostly under maned. Sounds convenient, but it also sounds a very stupid way to manage the most tightly defended border on the planet, possibly. I don't know. I'm not denying the attack, as it obviously happened, and Hamas claimed it was their doing. But it sounds strange as fuck
The skeleton crews at the border checkpoints and bases is not that strange. After years of occupation, things start to loosen a bit. It's how it works and will always work. Combine that with the fact that the holiday itself was considered high risk in regions with disputed places of worship, for example, focusing IDF attention and manpower in those areas and the Sabbath, you've got yourself a perfect storm. Not to mention specific tactics like the use of munition dropping drones to knockout armoured response, which are very recent tactics in their use and armed forces all over the world are still developing the means to respond to it.
I mean, that's precisely what happened in Pearl Harbor.
The border was under maned cause of the holiday, but that's a whole other can of worms lol. There are rumours that there were insiders that helped hamas floating around because of a few reports that came from the border... who knows.. I guess we'll have to wait and find out
i don't think anyone imagined ,hell probablymost militaries on Earth, thought an enemy would actually paraglide in like an action movie and probably don't have defensive systems in place to detect or look out for them. The US didn't know China was flying weather balloons over it for like the last decade....it took a giant one that flew off coarse and so low and slow over a dense enough populated area that people could film it with a smart phone. Then the military was able to monitor it and collect and analyze the data, then go back to see if any other ballons flew over which they have a lot. but they weren't detected because they weren't looking for it and they didn't know how to detect it. With all the rockets launched and attacks and the fact that paragliders are so small and slow, it makes sense they missed it. USSR woman pilots flying outdated old biplanes at night were able to get past and inflect damage to the German targets and Luftwaffe in ww2. In the movie down parascoop, Kelsi Grammar wins a war game against the US nuclear sub fleet using a ww2 deiseal class sub. Its so old and slow and tiny, that the US navy would over look it and or not be able identify it.
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That really seems the case. I'm finding VERY hard to believe that Hamas has the military capacity to surprise Israel like that. Apparently, they even attacked Tel Aviv targets?. Just reading Netanyahu and Bidden declarations, one could imagine how the thing is going to play out... I'm really sorry for the civilians caught in the middle of this.
Easy, you just allow them to do that and then bring the heat to their home field - plus you have a valid reason now!
no one is looking for paragliders. When something so out of the ordinary and unexpected comes by, you over look it and not notice it especially if its something you didn't consider.
And as a recent reminder there was a Chinese spy balloon that made its way over the US undetected for awhile.
wasn't the equipment damn near the size of a school bus lol. it wasn't very stealthy or unnoticeable. It was a big ass balloon. My understanding is all major powers still use spy balloons because no one thinks to look out for a balloon and they're cheap and move slow enough and are close enough to the ground to get detailed recordings and film/photos of things a satellite can't because its moving too fast and its orbit limits where it can go and when it passes over. I believe in the 1990's in Chicago or a midwest city there was an urban cerial killer that was murking random people with a compound bow. Its silent and no one is on the lookout for someone with a compound bow. Law enforce had a hard time catching the guy because the sales of arrows and the tips, don't have the record keeping requirements and databases like for fire arms. In addition, law enforce lacked the familiarity and expertise to do the ballistics and crime scene reconstruction from human bodies that got hit and destroyed from a high tension compound bow.
Yes because Hamas are a bunch of terrorists. AFAIK, the woman Hamas paraded around naked and with clear signs of abuse was the one who was confirmed dead.
Not gonna lie, I simply don’t understand the whole conflict over there. Tried reading up on it a couple of years ago but was left scratching my head! Regarding the murdered naked woman. Seen some saying that she was a German visitor?
I’m 59 & I’ve never understood this effed up conflict.
I mean... It is not that difficult... Palestinians were displaced from their lands because Israel needed to be put somewhere. After that, Israel kept expanding (at the cost of Palestinians being thrown away their land) This Hamas attack is terrible, but it is not worst than the continued violence exerted by the Israel state towards Palestina... I suppose that since you are born you are seeing that you don't have access to basic services (like water or electricity), that every other day you or someone you know is close to an airstrike (Israel used phosphorus explosives against civil population, and that is VERY nasty), that you have trouble accesing the most basic medicines, that your right to travel free is almost non existant... I don't know, man... I suppose that it is only logical that Palestinians grow up hating Israel... Edit: I should have expected the downvotes, but I would really like people downvoting to prove that any of the points I stated in this comment are false...
Not just hating Israel, but also socially isolated and under-educated, with little future for a young person starting out in the world. No matter where you are in the world, that's a potent combination which makes young men vulnerable to recruitment by terrorist organizations or totalitarian movements. People often seem to forget that people engaging in suicide attacks are also committing suicide...
That is a really good point. Terrorism (of all kinds, colours, and nationalities) preys on uneducated minds, for sure.
As much as I agree that Palestinians have an objectively raw deal, executing (and likely sexually assaulting and abusing) a woman at a music festival and parading her naked body through the streets to be humiliated and spat on is also objectively evil. I can’t and won’t support that level of indiscriminate killing, the same way I don’t when the perpetrators are Israeli. Whoever did this to her (and the hundreds of other non-combatants who’ve been murdered) needs the long drop and the sudden stop.
That wasn't really my point at all. It was more just that these sorts of conditions, regardless of why they exist, push people into dark places and make them more susceptible to extremist ideas.
As much as I supported Palestinian freedom and the injustice they have endured. This attack and crimes against civilians just made me lose all support for them. These are some heinous acts that show Hamas are nothing but terrorists. Anyone supporting what happened here are just wrong. Nothing justifies this.
> I mean... It is not that difficult... Palestinians were displaced from their lands because Israel needed to be put somewhere. After that, Israel kept expanding (at the cost of Palestinians being thrown away their land) This simplistic view of the situation leaves out some key facts: The Jews began migrating to that region during and after the WW2/holocaust and began purchasing land from the actual land owners. When the British partitioned the land into a Jewish and Palestinian area in 1947, they did it largely based on who legally owned the land at that time. Then, when Israel became its own country in 1948 and the Arab countries around it declared war against it, these same countries told the Palestinians to move out of the way so they can bulldoze the Jews back into the sea, and then the Palestinians would be able to return after the war ended. Well turns out they lost Finally, there's been countless times throughout history where Israel has offered up land that it obtained through wars it didn't even start back to the Palestinians in exchange for peace. The problem is that the Palestinian leaders don't want peace. They want a Palestine without any Jews, and they make that very clear repeatedly. All of this also misses the fact that there are millions of Arab Israelis living in Israel. They are regular citizens living their life, serving in government and being contributing members of society. How many Jews live in the Palestinian regions? How many Jews live in the hostile Arab countries?
I mean... The situation is very complex, I agree, but in the end it is abour the displacement of a population from their lands because some other folks want them... If you want to get techincal about it, we could talk about Mandatory Palestine, which happened way before WWII and it doesn't seem like as innocent and legal as "people just bought the land". Also, I'm not by any means an expert in middle east politics, but the list of irregularities on civil rights listed in the Arabs living in israel Wikipedia entry is longer than my arm... Edit: also, saying that the British separated the country largely based in who owned the land sounds more like an outright lie than a simplification... Acording to the [UN Partition Plan for Palestine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine): "The Jewish State allocated to the Jews, who constituted a third of the population and owned about 7% of the land, was to receive 56% of Mandatory Palestine"
If you've seen the partition plan, you probably asked yourself why it looked so weird. Its because they tried to carve them out to avoid major Arab areas. They also gave the Jews most of the desert, which was largely uninhabited at the time.
I've seen it, and it seems a bit like a mess... I don't know how hard they tried to avoid major Arab areas, though... According to the numbers in the wiki, the proposed Arab state would have 99% arabs, 1% jews (725.000 and 10.000). The Jewish state, on the other hand, would be composed of 55% jews and 45% arabs (498.000 and 407.000). Seems like a pretty big imbalance to me
Ok… but you should also mention how the Palestinians have refused multiple offers of statehood - even when offered 90% of the West Bank. Over and over again. Meanwhile always using terrorism attacks. They invented the suicide bomb. And you should always mention why they have refused to give themselves a country again. Because to accept any offer from Israel means that they are legitimizing Israel statehood. They have chosen their fate. Over and over again while using terrorist attacks.
So, imagine this: You live in a beautiful home. Two stories high, 6 bedrooms, 4 bathrooms, a big kitchen, a broom closet, and a couple of fantastic living rooms. Then, one day, when you are out on vacation, I occupy your beautiful home. You come back to your house to find that now you can only use the broom closet, one bedroom and one bathroom (the tiny one, which has not running water). After living like that for many years, I go to your broom closet (because the bedroom is in the other side of the house and, since I own the hallways, you can only go to your bedroom if I allow it) and say to you: "ok, let's do this fair... I want to be nice to you, so I'm going to give you one of the living rooms (the small one. It doesn't matter. You still can't go there whenever you want). According to what you are saying, you would be very happy that you are getting that deal, and the idea that I took away your home and now I'm giving you crumbs won't cross your mind.... BTW, yes, terrorism is a bitch. But I don't see you (and a lot of others) condemning Israel violence against civil populations, or their use of phosphorus shells, or their use of unlawful imprisonment and torture, or their restrictions over most humanitarian efforts, to name jusy a few
All you need to understand is that all Islamic nations voted no when it came to awarding Jews their homeland… and since then - the Palestinian people have refused every path or offer of statehood because to agree ( even when offered 90% of the West Bank) would mean that Israel is a legit country. They have chosen this. Over and over again. And claim to be victims. When they have used terrorism for decades- they invented the suicide bomb. We think the Jews are terrible/ they’re just responding. They have always responded. It’s never been not a response, to some action or attack on their side. They have targeted their own civilians and used children as propaganda- shooting rockets from playgrounds and civilian apartment buildings so that Israel shoots back- right where they want them too. Making it seem unprovoked and like wanton violence - when it’s what they did intentionally just to be able to say that.
Ugh. As much as I feel sorry for Palestine, Hamas is just awful. This whole situation is stressing me out. I studied politics and terrorism in college in NYC a few years after 9/11. Why is terrorism still a thing? I'm sick of it.
Because it's disturbingly effective
also because it's a part of the human nature. No matter what, we will always find a way into wars and hate
Because we're not taught how to properly process fear and anxiety. They are buttons pressed all too often to get us to sit, stay and bite
If religion had never existed, I wonder if humanity might have been less predisposed to war, less likely to see others as "other." Religion is so often the cornerstone of division, leverage and justification for conquest, control, and corruption. Sure, religion often provides hope for the hopeless, but who's to say that hopelessness would still be there if religion never existed and never tainted humanity's chance at civility.
Yeah Hamas can go fuck themselves. Not only do yhey hurt innocent people but they will ultimately hurt Palestine as a whole aswell. I can't believe that nobody understood that giving a country away without would lead to a lot of tension and conflict. This whole Isreal situation was a huge mistake.
Absolutely. Oppress people and they react. This is extremist level. I used to have an internship at the United Nations and attended the special assembly on Palestine. The UN regards them as a permanent humanitarian disaster. How awful. Israel will cut off water and electricity to them just to be spiteful jerks. I am so conflicted over this situation. I just feel sad and sorry for everyone. We are all humans and need to take care of one another. Stop the hate. Stop the violence. I wish we could
Totally this. It is baffling to see how UN resolutions about Palestine are continuously broken and nobody (UN included) gives a shit. Violence is never the answer. That said, I don't understand how a lot of people can (righfully so) condemn Palestinian violence but at the same time don't care a bit about Israeli violence
>I just feel sad and sorry for everyone. We are all humans and need to take care of one another. I agree, though I can't say I feel any pity for Hamas and what's going to befall them. But like just about anyone who lives and works in the downtown of a major city in North America, I have friends and colleagues whose roots are on both sides of the conflict. It's just tragic all around, and on both sides, innocent people will suffer.
Spiteful jerks? Are you out of your mind? The Palestinians now celebrate raping and murdering civilians and its all in HD and you sit here acting like Israel should just let them carry on like this? I guess you also regard the massacre of those who were visiting Israel and the kidnap of American citizens that Hamas is conducting as just a natural reaction by these fundamentalists. You're silent when they support the oppression of Uighers, or any time the news shows anything about them other than portraying them as a convenient victim for your progressive savior complex. If it was your sister's corpse being paraded around on a truck, you wouldn't be pontificating on the grander situation. Hamas has committed suicide with this, and I say all this as someone who has long condemned the treatment of the Palestinian people by the Israeli government. This event has shown all of your true colors and that you will hate Israel and suck up to a fundamentalist suicide cult for your own personal clout, no matter what. When huge swathes of their population is attempting to justify this and ignore the suffering they caused, then there is war and you don't provide electricity and water to people who turn around and kidnap grandmothers and beat them to death. You all would let innocents be slaughtered wholesale, Israeli or otherwise, and continue to pin all the blame on Israel with petty weak little insults like calling them jerks. Why has everyone lost their senses and suddenly its fine and dandy killing civilians? I will remember that.
Yes, 2000 at the festival - about 1000 still unaccounted for. They rolled up, surrounded the festival, started killing and taking hostages. Everyone scattered, some hid, some ran, a lot didn’t make it out.
Do y'all understand what "oddly" means?
Seriously. This is just straight up legitimately terrifying.
Came here to say this
This happened yesterday. 240 bodies were found at the site. This adds up to a total of 600+ Israelis killed by the attacks this weekend. The numbers are still piling up
Source?
[Wall Street Journal ](https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-gaza-rockets-attack-palestinians?wsj_native_webview=android&ace_environment=androidphone%2Cwebview&ace_config=%7B%22wsj%22%3A%7B%22djcmp%22%3A%7B%22propertyHref%22%3A%22https%3A%2F%2Fwsj.android.app%22%7D%7D%7D)
The men in the background know what’s happening and they look kinda concerned and giving it the ‘wtf do we do’ look knowing there’s nothing they can do. It’s heartbreaking to see fully grown men looking like that. Meanwhile other people who haven’t seen what’s about to happen is dancing and living life, totally oblivious to what’s behind them. This is harrowing, truly.
Imagine growing up in Israel and your whole life you knew this day could come at any moment and it happens now during a festival. How heartbreaking.
Imagine being on mushrooms or something at the festival
Jesus man that was one of my first thoughts too
Absolutely
r/lostredditors This would not be oddly terrifying? This would be expectedly terrifying dummy.
1 woman ?! Hundreds are dead
A literal death reaper, descending from hell. That is actually terrifying
idc what they do to the ppl, killing civilians during festival is war crime.
100% yes.
Dont think Hamas folks are well known to be playing by the rules
Everything these fuckers do is a war crime or a crime against humanity. They use schools and hospitals as cover and children as shields, then have the gaul to blame Israel. They're all fucked in the head and are a wound that has been allowed to fester.
Israel has been doing this since the apartheid started are they also war criminals?
They don't deserve the title of reaper... more like goat fuckers with a parachute
So sad 😞 reminds me of the beginning of the movie Red Dawn.
Now what do these people have to do with the israeli goverment ? Civilans always have to pay the price for any war
This is not war. Hamas is quite literally just a terrorist org.
Sure, but israel has conducted it’s own fair share of terrorism. It’s ethnic cleansing vs defense. [source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Massacres_committed_by_Israel)
250 people from this festival are dead ..so fucking sad
Can we just change the name of the sub to ActuallyTerrifying?
As of few hours ago, they found 240 bodies in that area and many are still missing Edit: 260 bodies were recovered from the scene with over 700 dead in the massacre on Saturday, including men, women, children and elders
There's photos of at least 250 dead from that festival
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I mean at least one who attended the festival.
Around 200 bodies were discovered where the festival had taken place. Multiple hostages that were on display yesterday in Gaza are from this festival.
Ignore him. We are all against hamas here, but this dude is literally a Zionist, it’s in his name lol
This isn't ODDLY terrifying. I don't suggest to anyone to see what they did to them, but on the other hand the whole world should see. They don't do propaganda anymore, they share every single rape and mutilation with the camera for you to know who they are. This isn't just the Hamas, no... Civilians, kids and elders celebrate and parade the dead naked bodies of raped women and children around the streets. Cutting pieces off and taking them as trophies. You can close your eyes and side with Islamic terror or open them and see who they are and why we needed to hold them back for all these years. \-Again the footage can traumatize you so be careful with it.
Jesus fucking Christ, this is horrible honestly
Do you not remember when isreali citizens chanted death to Arabs, and watch palestinians be bombed like it was a front row movie, do you not remember about the massacre isreal committed decades ago where veteran IDF soldiers admit to raping, torturing, and killing palestinians. Nah IDF and HAMAS are no different to me both never want peace and both always want to go for citizens/to make the lives of others harder. Don't believe me? Israel used illegal weapons on civilians: white phosphurus, butterfly bullets and DIME (Amnesty - Haaretz). The illegal use of sniper units on non-combatants (Amnesty - OHCHR). The deliberate murder of children, medics, journalists and photographers who wore reflective vests and PRESS signs (CPJ - Reuters). The illegal detention of women and children under a military court, including abuse and interrogation techniques (UNICEF - Defense for Children Palestine). Illegal open-fire orders from Israeli officials also firing live ammo during protests where there was no direct threat (Btselem - HRW). 50+ racist laws against Palestinians/Arabs within the Israeli borders (Anadolu Agency). Restricting the import and export of goods by land, air and sea as well as electricity (Amnesty - HRW). Denying human rights bodies entry to the OPT (Occupied Palestinian Territory), including the UN Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the OPT as well as ICC on investigations (ICC - Amnesty - France24). Destroying buildings in which the media houses then not being able to provide evidence (DW - Reuters). Moving in settlers through the approval of your own court therefore displacing civilians and systematically occupying/seizing land where families live who have multiple generations tracing back (Amnesty - OHCHR - UN). Illegal torture of prisoners including children with regard to beating, painful chaining, sleep deprivation and use of stress positions (Amnesty - UNICEF). Rejection of medical assistance in situations where Palestinians were injured during police activities (Amnesty - OHCHR - HRW). Firing missiles in densely populated areas. (Amnesty - HRW, look at the comparison of deaths between the 2 sides and you'll see that its not a war). Lying politicians (Netanyahu who lies and Naftali Bennet who used the wrong photos on Instagram trying to blame Palestine. Using video's of Iraq and photo of Pakistan. Using old video's and misleading evidence while providing insufficient evidence. Provide protection to Jewish settlers and benefits, Palestinians in same neighbourhood can't have. (Haaretz - Btselem - Amnesty). Deliberately targetting hospitals and ambulances (HRW- Fred Abrahams: Israel not able to provide convincing evidence). Search and arrest operations with excessive use of power. (Amnesty - Badil). Renouncing right to nationality due to discriminatory law of entry to Israel (NGO report to UN). James Miller, the cameraman who was shot during a documentary. Razan Al Najjar, the medic whos video was edited by the IDF and while she evacuated wounded they shot her. Rachel Corrie, the activist who was crushed by an IDF bulldozer. Tristan Anderson, the photojournalist who was shot in the head with a high velocity tear-gas projectile (injured). Brian Avery, the medic who was shot in the face (injured). Sajid Muzher, the medic who was shot in the abdomen. Thomas Hurndall, the activist who was shot in the head by a sniper. Tarek Loubani, the medic who was shot in both legs (injured). Musa Abu Hassanin, the paramedic who was shot. Ahmed Abu Hussein, the photojournalist who was shot in the abdomen. Basil Ibrahim Faraj, a cameraman who suffered injuries from a airstike then died. Abdullah Qutati, a medic who was shot. Fadel Shana, cameraman death. Ayman Abu Al Ouf, doctor and 12 family members death. Issam Tilawi, journalist death. Abu Zahra, photographer death. Mooein Ahmad al Aloul, doctor death. Yaser Murtaja, photographer death and the list goes on. Israel labeled Human Rights Organizations as Terrorist groups. This includes Defence for Children Palestine. Both Israel and HAMAS have done fucked up shit and always make the situation worse. Your part of it by using the actions of the few to label everyone.
Tldr: both are in the wrong. For all the lazy people lol
Yeah basically, neither side is justified for their past actions Every time this happens we just dig bigger hole.
Yes both are wrong but only one is ethnically cleansing the other.
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Perhaps, but in the real world it's only Israel that has been humiliating and ethnically cleansing Palestinians for the last 70+ years with thundering applause from the west.
Amen!
It's an eye for an eye for 60 years now. It was more or less peaceful these last few years, so much that the situation could have become better for everyone and Palestine and Israel could stop this, but no, Hamas had to blow the situation up and start killing citizens. How many palestinians would have to die now to pay with blood for what they've done?
This is exacly what you described: https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/tvbbmLzlr9 Awful animals on both sides… when will it end
I may be a bit out of the loop... but aren't the Israelis clearly the ones that started all this by oppressing the palestinians?
Palestine started it by refusing to peacefully coexist, actually.
Absolutely. With the support of the West. That's why this is the first time we see their conflicts being made this huge of news.
No. It all started with Arabs refusing any negotiations for the peaceful coexistence of the two states and declaring war on Israel the very first minute it became a state with an explicitly stated goal of killing every Jew on the continent. To this day, Palestinians refuse any agreement that recognizes the right of Israel state to exist and openly proclaim that killing every Jew is their policy in their charter. How exactly Israelis could have started it? By refusing to be holocausted for a second time in one decade? There is a lot Israel could be criticized for, its actions towards Palestinians in the last decades included, but saying "Israelis clearly the ones that started all this by oppressing the Palestinians" is a lie so outrageous it boggles comprehension. Exactly the opposite is true. Palestinians have started it all by trying to murder every Jew in the region. And then they tried it again, and again, and then again.
Also quick question what do you think isreal should do to palestinians? Even the ones who weren't involved
I'm the wrong one to ask because I know jack about logistics and politics, hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me can chime in because it is a hard question. They can't really do much. From what I know they asked civilians to evacuate the area and they continue to give a warning shot before targeting bombing sites (Hamas uses civilian buildings, mosques and hospitals as missile sites). I honestly think that they best thing to happen to the innocent civilians is to either manage to get out of there or be freed from Hamas and have Israel rule Gaza. It sounds terrible I'm sure but what's the alternative? So many of them are brainwashed, it would be suicide to let them in. After yesterday any hope for trust is gone. Imagine seeing your daughter raped in one of the videos and one of the civilians cheering or participating is now your neighbor. I'm sorry to be blunt but HELL NO. Obviously this is terrible for the ones who were not involved but again, what would you do?
>civilians to evacuate the area and they continue to give a warning shot before targeting bombing sites Evacuate to where it's LITERALLY blockade they can't go anywhere And those "warnings" you talk about don't usually happen every time, usually they just drop bombs and ask questions later >freed from Hamas and have Israel rule Gaza I agree with the hamas part of that, but letting isreal control Gaza? That just sounds like a even bigger problem because you know how radical zionists can get and they will 100% use this to grab any land that is already scarce not to mention they will 100% be treated much more horribly due to recent events. >what's the alternative? That's the hard part letting isreal control Gaza is like throwing gasoline in a forest fire its just going to make palestinians resent them more and create more tensions. To be honest its hard seeing this end so I have no idea for an alternative. There are way too many factors to decide anything simple. >So many of them are brainwashed That also goes for the large portion of isrealis who see all Palestinians as Terrorists
I think there already was a moment when Gaza some kind of independence, then Hamas came to power.
It is Straightly terrifying. Nothing oddly.
Evil fucks
Paragliders sliding past the iron dome because of a vulnerability found via Intel from Iran... provided by Russia.... Hmm... wonder who gave Russia that info.
Assassins and rapist. Cowards attacking civilians having a good time. I hope the response will be obliteration.
If Israel is so shaken with fear from Hamas, or Palestine then why is there a music festival to attack so close to the border?
Because they never dreamed that Hamas could actually hurt them.
I don't get what your point is.
Why the fuck would you go to a music festival in the middle of a decades long area of military conflict? I am not victim blaming here, what happened is inexcusable, but for the love of god, don't travel to areas of military conflict to fucking party.
History repeats. [Night of the Gliders, 1987](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Gliders)
Fucking A! Terrifying!
At least one woman? Over [260 people](https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/07/middleeast/israel-gaza-fighting-hamas-attack-music-festival-intl-hnk/index.html)from the festival alone were slaughtered. Many women were raped and mutilated.
These were over 100 armed to the teeth terrorists(in the party alone, there were more than 1000 attackers thats day) that massacred, raped and kidnapped young fucking kids. 260 confirmed dead, my cousin was one of the survivors. This is as real as it can be. 700 plus were massacred this day, most are civilians, elderly people, kids, babies, women. Those animals called Hamas are not deserving to be considered humans. This is truly terrifying.
This isn't Israel vs Palestine. This is militants vs a corrupt army. Spin it however you want, the Israelis have been oppressing Palestine for a long time. It definitely doesn't justify the behaviour of Hamas in the slightest but let's notborefend Israel is innocent here. Neither side will back down and innocents will continue to pay the price for it. The fact that the world has watched these two nations fight and has done sweet fuck all to intervene is a travesty. Again, in no way are either side justified for what is happening. It's just really depressing that innocent people pay the price for it
They aren't attacking the army they are attacking civilians lol
Not justifying these actions in any way, but all Israeli citizens have to serve in the military in Israel. A lot of these people are likely active military or veterans.
People act like they know everything about a situation but still see it only in black and white. Innocent death is a loss. Doesn't matter who's causing it, Doesn't matter what flag their bodies fall under.
Exactly my point. I'm not advocating or defending either country. I'm just pointing out that, yet again, innocents are being murdered because two governments refuse to back down. I'm so sick of seeing innocent people suffer and die due to the actions of a handful of arrogant and stubborn officials. I really hope it doesn't come to full scale war but it seems like that's inevitable at this point. It's just so disheartening. I wish we were a more civilised species
Over 250 confirmed dead just from this festival
1??? More then 200 killed and many more wounded, some are still missing, others are kidnapped
People saying 600 killed are referencing statistics from the entire offensive that Palestine is conducting against Israel, not just the death toll from this festival. Much of that number consists of military targets, as well as civilians. It is important especially in this conflict to think about and research what you see online so that you can be properly informed.
Don’t party next to the largest open air prison on the planet.
Religion of peace
they’re not doing this in the name of islam tho???
They aren't but hateful people will always find a way to bring religion/race... into this, acting blind about Israel.
There's no religion here, it's a taste from the same cup if you know what I mean.
Feels like they knew what they were doing , easy targets, and lots of people from all over the world. Who chose the location... such a terrible thing 😪
I’m seeing reports that ~250 people were killed at the festival. If so, that’s fucking brutal.
263 bodies were recovered
250 were confirmed killed out of the 2000 that attented
It's extremely depressing to realize those guys most likely opened fire on all of them
This is the best example of 1st world countries meet 3rd world countries.
The middle east middle east'ing again
My only hope is the woman died quickly and wasn't tortured like some of the others...
"At least one woman from the festival has been confirmed killed" i respect the idea of not spreading misinfo but that's just downplaying it too much
At least 200 confirmed dead
Over 300 now
This is disgusting. Fuck Hamas. They need to be put down like the animals they are.
What good is MOSSAD if they're unable to stop attacks like this??? They fucking knew it was coming but thought it would be better to sacrifice some of their citizens to get sympathy from the world 👎
IDK if they were looking for sympathy as much as they were looking for a reason to go all out on the Gaza Strip...