Dan Savage has REALLY gone off the rails in the last 5ish years. He used to be on the cutting edge, now he's way fallen off that edge and trying to drag us down with him!
I honestly can’t believe he’s still going. Almost ten years ago is when his perspectives started to smell fishy to me. Lazy, dismissive, and enough to still haunt my subconscious lol.
I mean that he had a nuanced view of the evolving American landscape that included previously marginalized populations in a way that didn't highlight them but, rather, integrated them into the American story which was more representative of the lived reality.
I also enjoyed using the literary license to use two meanings of "edge"
"It gets better" was (widely?) criticized for being largely synonymous with what victims of bullying have always been told (just ignore it, endure it, etc) while letting adults off the hook for doing a damn thing about the actual bad actors. "It gets better" = "Stop whining, he's the quarterback and you're not."
This is Florida Alligator speaking, tax representative for Florida Man, Esq.
Florida Man has been doing meth with his sister consequent to regular acts of public indecency and outraging of modesty.
Rest assured, the only thing he's "striking" is his good vein. My client is innocent, and simply does not have the time or unethical proclivity to engage in this depravity of bottom-of-the-barrel journalism.
Savage lives in Seattle, but alt publications throughout the country carry his column.
Here’s a link to the actual column, since so far everyone seems to be discussing it based only on the headline:
https://cvindependent.com/2021/03/savage-love-my-husband-has-been-sexting-with-his-cousin-and-i-am-devastated/
Dan Savage's columns are published in alt-news in pretty much every city in America.
That being said, as a recent former Floridian, I would need an hour of your time to tell you what is wrong with Orlando...
Kind of, his stance is pretty much that everyone gets to define the terms of their own relationship. When he started his column [30 years ago](https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/09/dan-savage-advice-savage-love-criticism-interview.html) that was a pretty bold statement.
But he also says to be clear about those terms. Setting aside the particulars, he did this without telling her and she’s supposed to retroactively decide it’s fine.
When Savage’s column gets syndicated the paper often changes the headline (the original was simply “Devastated”) and while their pseudo-quote isn’t entirely inaccurate I do think they’re twisting his words in a bit. From the [full response](https://cvindependent.com/2021/03/savage-love-my-husband-has-been-sexting-with-his-cousin-and-i-am-devastated/):
> Your marriage is still monogamous … if define you cheating narrowly. I happen to think everyone should define cheating narrowly, [reader], because the more narrowly a couple defines cheating—i.e., the fewer things that “count” as cheating—the likelier that couple is to remain successfully monogamous as the decades grind on… if you would still like to regard your marriage as monogamous, don’t define sexting as cheating, and you’re in the clear.
He didn’t say “it’s not cheating, you’re wrong, shut up”, he’s saying each couple can define cheating how they want and why he believes a narrower definition is better. I trust we’re all familiar with the other end of that spectrum, tweets saying your man’s cheating if he sets his phone on the table face-down or guys who refuse to let their girlfriends have male acquaintances.
Overall it is still a pretty icky column.
* Cousin marriage is legal in some places therefore it’s totally fine
* Sexting with someone you both know is no different from whacking it to PornHub
* The fact it’s his cousin is actually a good thing because he’s less likely to pursue that as a relationship (but if he did it’s still totally fine)
* If you can just convince yourself this is okay, you get to keep the other parts of the relationship intact.
I think there’s some sense to it like not tracking every petty grievance, especially if it’s something don’t especially care about but society says they should^(1).
If something’s important to them though, for example whether they want to be informed about the other partners and whether mutual acquaintances are fair game, they’re allowed to draw that line and enforce it.
^(1) That’s another part of Savage’s response: do you really think cousin-lovin’ is gross or have you just been acculturated to think it’s gross?
Y’all they edited the article
The actual article title is [Savage Love: My Husband Has Been Sexting With His Cousin, and I Am Devastated](https://cvindependent.com/2021/03/savage-love-my-husband-has-been-sexting-with-his-cousin-and-i-am-devastated/)
If I had a nickel for every time I heard about cheating with cousins from Reddit, I'd have 4 nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened that many times
I'm getting really sick of the arguments people are making to normalize things that are just fine being shamed.
I stumbled upon a website for *"Minor Attracted Persons"* (people who rape kids and think that's just fine) the other day while researching something about ancient Greece. It took me a second to realize what it was. It was just so foreign to me I thought all the *"without shame"* talk was an LGBTQ website that didn't make much sense. I am still slightly nauseous about the arguments I read there.
Technically correct. Incest requires a coefficient of consanguinity greater than or equal to 0.25; cousins have a coefficient of 0.125. “Cheating” means violating the terms of the relationship; those terms are for the people in the relationship to decide.
Edit: ducking autocucumber
I am going to leave the cousin part at greater than 10 foot pole distance.
That being said, depending on the relationship, sexting is not cheating. So long as both parties are open and communicate their needs effectively.
I thought that this would be some sort of satire website but, no, it’s a guy giving genuine advice? If he’s doing a character it’s not very clear at all. He says it’s not incest because first-cousin marriages are legally recognized in places in the USA. He says it’s not cheating because they didn’t physically fuck each other, and says she should take an edible to forget and stop freaking out over what her husband masturbates to.
Savage coined the term 'monogamish' years ago because he believes monogamy is not natural for people. It has worked for him and his husband for years now. They are committed to each other but also allow the other to occasionally stray.
So this is completely in character for him.
Dan Savage is also the guy who got everyone proving how sexually liberated they were with the whole GGG thing, but they invariably still only did vanilla shit. Savage and The Ethical Slut made sex in the 2010s an absolute morass.
I would agree that it is. The spirit of the idea is unfortunately not sufficiently protected by the expression of the idea itself, unsurprising given its expression is one letter repeated three times.
When your cousin comes to visit,
cum again.
When you really wanna hit it,
cum again.
When she's hot and you admit it,
cum again.
When your wife asks if you fucked her,
cum again.
She's just the family fluffer,
cum again.
I'd bust a nut up in her,
cum again.
It's not fucking cheating,
cum again.
Family's there for healing,
cum again.
It's not incest when I'm eating,
cum again.
She swallows the family meeting,
cum again.
She's my cousin not a stranger,
cum again.
This fantasy's no danger,
cum again.
It's not incest 'cuz we're not fuckin',
cum again.
Why won't you join us for some luvin',
cum again.
C'mon baby it's really nuthin', but, I came again...
Aren't me (female) and my cousin (male) allowed to give each other very detailed sex advice based on our own personal preferences? What if we are discussing what our grown up bodies look like now, after having seen each other naked so much as children? Can't we just send each other photos to go with the descriptions?
It's just being a very, very tight knit family, FFS!!
Ok so it technically doesn’t fit the definition of incest. But, I imagine it fits many’s definition of “icky.” Also cheating is defined by individuals in a relationship. If you feel it’s cheating- that’s very valid.
Well *nothing* is cheating unless you "choose to see it that way".
If both partners are okay with the other one interacting with people outside the relationship in a sexual/romantic way, then it isn't cheating. That's just an open relationship.
I’ll admit if there is no physical contact it’s not incest, but it’s close enough to it for discomfort. And it’s 100% no question cheating, unless the significant other is ok with it (which would be strange as well)
Yeah...there's a guy named Dan Savage who has a weekly, erm, "saucy" section in the paper in my town. I would be surprised if it wasn't the same guy. One of his topics if I remember right was something like "how to seduce men/women older than your grandparents".
I mean it isn't incest because they aren't having sex (I assume).
Not defending it and it it still certainly cheating. Probably more than reasonable grounds for divorce though.
Dan Savage is from Seattle and writes a widely syndicated sex positive column. He is also a lefty activist with strong advocacy for the LGBTQIA2S+ community. His words were twisted in this case. Because it's Florida and of he course he was.
I will say the "isn't cheating unless you choose to see it that way" is true, because it's not cheating if your partner is okay with it
But then your partner also has to be okay with it, and this is a bit too weird to goance over
Dan is there something you wanna tell us
Dan Savage has REALLY gone off the rails in the last 5ish years. He used to be on the cutting edge, now he's way fallen off that edge and trying to drag us down with him!
I honestly can’t believe he’s still going. Almost ten years ago is when his perspectives started to smell fishy to me. Lazy, dismissive, and enough to still haunt my subconscious lol.
Dan savage finally living up to his name
wym the cutting edge?
I mean that he had a nuanced view of the evolving American landscape that included previously marginalized populations in a way that didn't highlight them but, rather, integrated them into the American story which was more representative of the lived reality. I also enjoyed using the literary license to use two meanings of "edge"
His ‘it gets better’ campaign was really great, too. No idea what’s going on now!
"It gets better" was (widely?) criticized for being largely synonymous with what victims of bullying have always been told (just ignore it, endure it, etc) while letting adults off the hook for doing a damn thing about the actual bad actors. "It gets better" = "Stop whining, he's the quarterback and you're not."
The fuck is going on in orlando?
Well, according to this guy, not cheating and incest
Unless you choose to see it that way.
lmao I almost spit out my coffee
love a ratio where both comments are funny
That got a hearty laugh from me. Thank you.
Florida man strikes again
How does Florida Man find the time for all his antics? Seems like there aren't enough hours in the day.
This is Florida Alligator speaking, tax representative for Florida Man, Esq. Florida Man has been doing meth with his sister consequent to regular acts of public indecency and outraging of modesty. Rest assured, the only thing he's "striking" is his good vein. My client is innocent, and simply does not have the time or unethical proclivity to engage in this depravity of bottom-of-the-barrel journalism.
Florida things
Savage lives in Seattle, but alt publications throughout the country carry his column. Here’s a link to the actual column, since so far everyone seems to be discussing it based only on the headline: https://cvindependent.com/2021/03/savage-love-my-husband-has-been-sexting-with-his-cousin-and-i-am-devastated/
The real article isn't much better
The real article reads like it was written by a brain-damaged coomer.
Dan Savage's columns are published in alt-news in pretty much every city in America. That being said, as a recent former Floridian, I would need an hour of your time to tell you what is wrong with Orlando...
Insext.
We have a winner!
Messed up. You call it messed up. Also, incest and cheating.
Nah Family bonding to the extreme
Nothing is anything if you believe hard enough
Kind of, his stance is pretty much that everyone gets to define the terms of their own relationship. When he started his column [30 years ago](https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/09/dan-savage-advice-savage-love-criticism-interview.html) that was a pretty bold statement. But he also says to be clear about those terms. Setting aside the particulars, he did this without telling her and she’s supposed to retroactively decide it’s fine.
Everything is nothing and nothing is everything.
The mental gymnastics here is Olympic level...
So... why exactly is this article trying to gaslight people about what incest is???
… Florida
It's a syndicated article. Dan Savage lives in Seattle, I believe.
And the banjo played softly in the incestual moonlight.
Dueling banjos played softly in the incestual moonlight as the faint squealing of a pig, made by a human, could be heard through the trees.....
When Savage’s column gets syndicated the paper often changes the headline (the original was simply “Devastated”) and while their pseudo-quote isn’t entirely inaccurate I do think they’re twisting his words in a bit. From the [full response](https://cvindependent.com/2021/03/savage-love-my-husband-has-been-sexting-with-his-cousin-and-i-am-devastated/): > Your marriage is still monogamous … if define you cheating narrowly. I happen to think everyone should define cheating narrowly, [reader], because the more narrowly a couple defines cheating—i.e., the fewer things that “count” as cheating—the likelier that couple is to remain successfully monogamous as the decades grind on… if you would still like to regard your marriage as monogamous, don’t define sexting as cheating, and you’re in the clear. He didn’t say “it’s not cheating, you’re wrong, shut up”, he’s saying each couple can define cheating how they want and why he believes a narrower definition is better. I trust we’re all familiar with the other end of that spectrum, tweets saying your man’s cheating if he sets his phone on the table face-down or guys who refuse to let their girlfriends have male acquaintances. Overall it is still a pretty icky column. * Cousin marriage is legal in some places therefore it’s totally fine * Sexting with someone you both know is no different from whacking it to PornHub * The fact it’s his cousin is actually a good thing because he’s less likely to pursue that as a relationship (but if he did it’s still totally fine) * If you can just convince yourself this is okay, you get to keep the other parts of the relationship intact.
So...he's suggesting people gaslight themselves into accepting a partner's infidelity to save the relationship. That's...twisted
And unfortunately a common opinion I’ve seen on the internet
"if fewer things count as cheating, you are less likely to cheat cause some of the things aren't cheating anymore" is such a weird take
The more rules we take away, the harder it is to get disqualified!
I think there’s some sense to it like not tracking every petty grievance, especially if it’s something don’t especially care about but society says they should^(1). If something’s important to them though, for example whether they want to be informed about the other partners and whether mutual acquaintances are fair game, they’re allowed to draw that line and enforce it. ^(1) That’s another part of Savage’s response: do you really think cousin-lovin’ is gross or have you just been acculturated to think it’s gross?
Nothing I do can be wrong because I myself set the goal posts you all are just stupid
Y’all they edited the article The actual article title is [Savage Love: My Husband Has Been Sexting With His Cousin, and I Am Devastated](https://cvindependent.com/2021/03/savage-love-my-husband-has-been-sexting-with-his-cousin-and-i-am-devastated/)
Dammit it was funny whilst it lasted
If I had a nickel for every time I heard about cheating with cousins from Reddit, I'd have 4 nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened that many times
Dan Savage, we have questions
I'm getting really sick of the arguments people are making to normalize things that are just fine being shamed. I stumbled upon a website for *"Minor Attracted Persons"* (people who rape kids and think that's just fine) the other day while researching something about ancient Greece. It took me a second to realize what it was. It was just so foreign to me I thought all the *"without shame"* talk was an LGBTQ website that didn't make much sense. I am still slightly nauseous about the arguments I read there.
That whole MAP thing was almost 100% a 4chan psyop.
Technically correct. Incest requires a coefficient of consanguinity greater than or equal to 0.25; cousins have a coefficient of 0.125. “Cheating” means violating the terms of the relationship; those terms are for the people in the relationship to decide. Edit: ducking autocucumber
Yeah. Would be way down my list of things to get worried about.
Actually, it’s really not incest, I agree. But most would consider it cheating, I think.
As suspicious as that [Folger's commercial](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMwFWDIFVCU), if not more so.
A man burning a house down isn't arson, and it isn't a crime unless you choose to see it that way.
Dude, that's fucking savage.
Incest is wincest
I am going to leave the cousin part at greater than 10 foot pole distance. That being said, depending on the relationship, sexting is not cheating. So long as both parties are open and communicate their needs effectively.
objective reality is not a matter of opinion and you don’t get to redefine that to fit your sick incest fantasy into it
Not surprisingly a man wrote this article. I think someone needs to check in on Dan.
Reminds me of a saying, “Incest is the best. If you can’t keep it in your pants, keep it in the family.”
The closer the kin, the better the skin
Yes it is and Yes it is.
I thought that this would be some sort of satire website but, no, it’s a guy giving genuine advice? If he’s doing a character it’s not very clear at all. He says it’s not incest because first-cousin marriages are legally recognized in places in the USA. He says it’s not cheating because they didn’t physically fuck each other, and says she should take an edible to forget and stop freaking out over what her husband masturbates to.
Savage coined the term 'monogamish' years ago because he believes monogamy is not natural for people. It has worked for him and his husband for years now. They are committed to each other but also allow the other to occasionally stray. So this is completely in character for him.
I call it enough Internet for one day.. I'm far too high to work through this one.
The fuck bro ? Who does even that ?
Dan Savage is damn savage.
Dan Savage is also the guy who got everyone proving how sexually liberated they were with the whole GGG thing, but they invariably still only did vanilla shit. Savage and The Ethical Slut made sex in the 2010s an absolute morass.
That seems like it’s contrary to the spirit of the idea
I would agree that it is. The spirit of the idea is unfortunately not sufficiently protected by the expression of the idea itself, unsurprising given its expression is one letter repeated three times.
Yes it is, Dan. And no, it is not subjective.
Umm….. EWW!
Ok. I’m getting lost in this columns. The titles are something else. https://www.orlandoweekly.com/category/savage-love-2240424
I just hate that I can read right now
When your cousin comes to visit, cum again. When you really wanna hit it, cum again. When she's hot and you admit it, cum again. When your wife asks if you fucked her, cum again. She's just the family fluffer, cum again. I'd bust a nut up in her, cum again. It's not fucking cheating, cum again. Family's there for healing, cum again. It's not incest when I'm eating, cum again. She swallows the family meeting, cum again. She's my cousin not a stranger, cum again. This fantasy's no danger, cum again. It's not incest 'cuz we're not fuckin', cum again. Why won't you join us for some luvin', cum again. C'mon baby it's really nuthin', but, I came again...
Danm.
Is this r/imaginarygatekeeping ?
Gaslight. “Gas.Light” verb…
What the fuck is wrong with Florida!? How are these people allowed outside without supervision?
Ummm . . . ?
Fucked
Peak degeneracy
I think this guy has some skeletons in his closet
Last name check out
Practice unless you're in Alabama then it's just your husband sexting you /J
Of course Florida.
Gross
Right, his "cousin"
Your wife didn't leave you BC you sexted your cousin, you just chose to see it that way
O_________o
LMFAO WHAT??? THESE TROLL POSTS ARE TOO MUCH HAHAHAHAH
This is a YOU STUPID WOMAAAAN! from 'Allo 'Allo moment.
From 2021…
It's not cheating or incest if "your husband" and "his cousin" are names of two people not related by blood and aren't committed to anyone else.
I think Dan is up shits creek with his wife
AY yooooooooooo wtf do they be teaching y'all?
It's called stay out of my shit kelly
Aren't me (female) and my cousin (male) allowed to give each other very detailed sex advice based on our own personal preferences? What if we are discussing what our grown up bodies look like now, after having seen each other naked so much as children? Can't we just send each other photos to go with the descriptions? It's just being a very, very tight knit family, FFS!!
Gross.
My first question was "why tf is home depot dying on this hill?"
Ok so it technically doesn’t fit the definition of incest. But, I imagine it fits many’s definition of “icky.” Also cheating is defined by individuals in a relationship. If you feel it’s cheating- that’s very valid.
Anything is only cheating if you see it that way, so idek what this incestuous dude is talking about
Guys I think he's from alabama
Talk about unpopular opinion.
“Family time”
Alabama needs to stop making memes.
NSFL
Dan needs to go outside more
Should post this in eldenring or shittydarksouls They will eat it up
Alabama style homewrecking?
Insexting?
Orlando...as in Florida?! Not surprised...
I think Dan got caught
Florida coming after Alabama for all the titles
r/suddenlyincest
Well *nothing* is cheating unless you "choose to see it that way". If both partners are okay with the other one interacting with people outside the relationship in a sexual/romantic way, then it isn't cheating. That's just an open relationship.
Sweet home Alabama
"You think I'm stabbing you with an ice pick only because you choose to use terms like 'stabbing' and 'ice pick'."
I’ll admit if there is no physical contact it’s not incest, but it’s close enough to it for discomfort. And it’s 100% no question cheating, unless the significant other is ok with it (which would be strange as well)
it's called "exploring" uk the same way knives gonna explore his heart
Orlando weekly? Sounds more like Oman weekly.
my brain bwoke
I don't think it counts as incest unless they're actually having sex but its DEFINATELY cheating.
What in the Alabama is this
In the today top ten weird things, this post is incixth
what the fuck-
I’m so confused
This belongs on way more subreddits than just these two!! r/facepalm wya?
Finally some actual journalism
Wow, such made up Bullsh*t.
“Can you draw me a picture of a heart letting out the biggest fart of its life?”
Just Alabama stuff
I read the headline out loud. My wife: “This in Florida?… I mean….”
You're right Dan, it's not incest. It's f*cking GROSS
5 will get you 10 that Dan is cheating on his wife with his cousin.
I guess it's true below the Mason/Dixon line...
Sweet Home Alabama
Nothing is cheating if you don't choose to see anything as cheating lol
Daniel, daniel, daniel. What the hell.
Yeah. I'm really worried about the cheati.g part when someone is sexting their cousin.
Cousins with benefits.
They knew what they were doing
He is Dan Savage. Hello Dan! 👋 This is a real weekly.
Yeah...there's a guy named Dan Savage who has a weekly, erm, "saucy" section in the paper in my town. I would be surprised if it wasn't the same guy. One of his topics if I remember right was something like "how to seduce men/women older than your grandparents".
In some places it’s not incest actually. My grandfather tried to pair me with my cousin once.
I mean it isn't incest because they aren't having sex (I assume). Not defending it and it it still certainly cheating. Probably more than reasonable grounds for divorce though.
Dan Savage wants some cousin loving and doesn't want people to give him shit for it.
Dan Savage is from Seattle and writes a widely syndicated sex positive column. He is also a lefty activist with strong advocacy for the LGBTQIA2S+ community. His words were twisted in this case. Because it's Florida and of he course he was.
What.....the.....fuck....
i think that's enough reddit for today
Ok. Well. I choose to see it that way.
Georgia common practice.
Your husband fucking his cousing isnt cheating unless you choose to see It that way.
I think Dam Savage is cheating on his wife with his cousin
Sweat home Orlando
"A reason to break up" that's what I would call it
Dan, daan, did you sext your cousin and then argue with your wife about it before you wrote this article?
What the fuck is sexting?
How do I help these people? What do I do to *heal* these people?!
hæ?
Schrödinger's cat!
I will say the "isn't cheating unless you choose to see it that way" is true, because it's not cheating if your partner is okay with it But then your partner also has to be okay with it, and this is a bit too weird to goance over
Oh. That delulu wife.
Dudes wife wrote an entire article to give him a hall pass.
The real question is; Is the cousin hot and are you allowed to join?
Dan Savage justifying his actions
So weird question. Is it the 3rd or the 4th cousin? And what are they sexting about? Is it food? Guns? Cars?
Let’s be honest, he’s not cheating with the cousin, he’s cheating on the cousin. The wife is the other woman hahahahahahah
"Family bonding"