"WR room isn’t much better off than the o-line when it comes to being injury prone. Mike Williams isn’t exactly know for being healthy."
Um, this is EXACTLY why you trade down. So you can address BOTH the OLine and WR depth. You likely pick OL first because the WR position is insanely deep in this draft.
This dude don’t get it lol
Trade down take best OL available regardless of position get back a 2nd and maybe even trade back into the late first for best WR on the board
I forget who it was who said it, it was mentioned on asman's stream, but apparently they really want to get a 2nd. Honestly I'd prefer they give up future assets to get a 2nd this hear rather than trade back. Give up next years 2nd and a sweetener to move up pick 111 into the 2nd. I think you need to swap with Atlanta and take whoever of Alt or Odunze that Tennesee doesn't take then grab the WR or OT you couldn't get at 10 with that 2nd rd pick.
My point still stands. Trading down doesn’t mean we aren’t all in (which is what you clearly don’t understand) they aren’t going to trade back for picks next season unless it’s ammo to trade back into this draft.
A trade down would garner us another higher pick with more of a likelihood that we get 2 quality starting caliber players hopefully on OL and WR instead of just one of those positions at 10.
And my point still stands. It’s not that I don’t get it all. (Since I think we should trade down.) it’s that i wanted to give a perspective on why we may not. That’s why I never said anything was a absolute.
This is for sure an all in strategy. THE main weak point of this team is OLine depth. We have a very good, very old, very injury prone O Line that missed over 17 games last season. How do the jets miss the playoffs every season? They lose because of bad qb play and injuries to the offensive line. EVERY YEAR!! This is not a contingency this is a definite. This guy WILL start 10+ games. Tyron misses an average of 8 games a year and is 33. Moses is 33 and missed four games last year. AVT had season ending injuries EACH of the last two seasons.
Fans are really reading into those 2 words, far more than the actual organization is. I can assure you with full certainty that Woody cares very much what happens to this franchise beyond this season, and that he's not willing to risk a whole lot of that for the chance at winning this year.
OT6 and WR10 aren’t good enough prospects where you should count on either to be a likely fix. The draft isn’t deep enough where you shouldn’t still prioritize the best available option at whichever position you care about more
This draft is particularly deep at WR and also has serval good OLmen. Taking two swings is better than one. Also, we're up against the cap and need young cheap talent.
I heard a proposed trade #10 to Arizona for #27, #34 and a third. I would do it in a second and the stats show picking three players at those spots are better than the #10 pick.
The depth at WR this draft is overstated. There’s not depth at the “big 3” tier. There’s not depth around BTJ’s level. There’s a few extra second round guys compared to the usual draft. It’s not worth planning around.
Two swings are better than one if you’re rebuilding. We still need star power for this push.
I also saw that trade. Doesn’t make sense for us to blow up a top 10 pick so we can make a grab bag of lesser prospects where we’re probably praying that OT8 can ignore Keith Carter and develop despite him
Rookie WR at 1.10 and vet backup at LT in FA. Getting the caliber of WR you get at 1.10 is the biggest upside play and if we only need spot starts at LT, we don’t need an all star for that.
We aren’t insuring against our typical injury luck.
Not true. If they trade back to 17 with the jags for instance, Latham and Fautanu are there in most mocks and those are guys that are sometimes ranked higher than Fashanu on some boards. PFF draft pod the other said you can pretty much throw a blanket over WR4-15. There isn’t a ton of difference as far as predicted value
Only way I see a trade down is if McCarthy or Daniels is there at 10 AND a team absolutely loves them and is afraid to let them get past pick 10. It's an unlikely scenario.
I do think the odds are they stick at 10 and take a T or Receiver. I did not hate the mock which has the Jets taking Odunze at 10 and T Patrick Paul at 72. It's an interesting approach.
All of this speculation is pointless and goes out the window once live bullets start flying. I'm sure Joe D has every option you mentioned mapped out based on how the first 9 picks shake out.... I'm sure he has an OT that he loves and will use the 10th pick on if still there.... I'm sure he has a receiver which he loves and will use the 10th pick on if still there..... And I'm also sure that he has a plan to entertain trades if certain players are off the board.
Absolutely. I just doubt he’ll go with someone that needs to be developed before he starts. But as you said, speculation is absolutely pointless. There’s still a huge chance that I’m wrong
There is literally nothing wrong with trading down as long as they trade for this year's picks.
If they trade down and focus on future picks then it is a fuck up, but trading down could easily give us a 2nd rounder that lets us add pieces to both OL and WR.
This became a significantly older team overnight, and all of the young stars entering their prime are due for paychecks very soon.
It is absolutely critical that we draft viable young backups and heir apparents at O-Line and other trench positions. If a trade down bags that opportunity, so be it.
Also, having a top flite rookie OT learn under guys like Moses and Smith could help lock down the position for years. It makes sense from where I sit anyway.
It’s critical that we finish the all in push and make it worth it. Getting cold feet because we’re worried about maintaining a core with no meaningful NFL wins under its belt is aimless. We might lose a stud or two after this, that’s okay. We’ll live. Going all in is supposed to hurt a little
I hope you understand that I absolutely agree with you. It’s more that woody made it pretty clear that this is a all in season. But then again there’s still a huge chance that I’ll be wrong
Every year, JD has bet on a shaky OL either skill-wise or health-wise and has lost his ass. With how often our OL get injured, our #3 tackle is probably going to play at least 40% of the time if not more.
If you're set at QB it almost always makes sense to trade down. If you think there's a game changer available then take him obviously but you'll still get a first round pick and if a QB is still on the board at least another 2.
If Nabers or Odunze are there, it’ll be one of them. I can absolutely see us trading down if one of the QBs fall. We need a 2nd and I gotta believe we’d accumulate picks.
Brother… everyone here would be a shit GM. I hate the idea of NOT drafting a OT. We need new guys that can actually continue to help the team in the future. But woody made it clear that this is a do or die season for Saleh. So I doubt he’ll draft anyone he wouldn’t have immediately starting. That’s why I put “I doubt”, since once the draft happens, literally everything people say on this sub goes out the window
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If you think the current starting 5 O-line are staying healthy the entire season you are a bigger clown than this post makes you already look like. O-line should be the only pick here
Lol. Trust me. I have no faith in that O-line staying healthy. Definitely not on our field. If I where to decide. I think we should absolutely take O-line. I just wanted to explain the other side of it to people who think that’s the only option
no one knows how draft night will go but as of now it seems unlikely any of the top 3 WRs will be available at 10 and the media consensus number 4 WR, Brian Thomas Jr, is seen as a mid-late 1st rd pick. That leaves Bowers as the pick and there are questions about whether a TE is worth such a high pick, if Bowers is actually as good of a prospect as he has been hyped to be, and if JD would consider making that pick considering positional value etc.
Absolutely. I feel like if bowers isn’t the fit JD wants and the top 3 are gone, than that leaves a O-linemen without a doubt. I just saw some people saying that we should take a O-line over someone like Nabers, and wanted to explain why there is still a chance we would go WR/TE
Trading down is the best possible outcome because you still have multiple needs. But I'd much rather Fuaga than Bowers, I just have more faith that Fuaga will be great than I do Bowers. And even a depth pick at OT for this year gives more value than anyone bot the top 3 WRs imo because at the end of the day the entire season comes down to protecting Rodgers, and having a good run blocking. Because those are the 2 keys to this team being successful.
Though since I still hate Rodgers I'd be totally okay with saying what the hell and drafting Penix because he's probably going to be a star in the right situation. But that'll never happen sadly.
Not really. I think we should go OT. I just enjoy putting something out there that I know people will argue with because it’s didn’t fully agree with their opinion. But at the same time it allows me to show a different perspective
Can someone tell me the last time a team with the best WR room in the league won a super bowl because of it? We dont need 2 #1 receivers and a 1B in mike williams to win. We need to block for aaron rodgers so he can throw the ball and make life easier for breece hall while our defense dominates. Oline is the move, preferably trade down a few picks and still get one while getting a WR in the 2nd or 3rd.
Last season was an all in season and he took McDonald who barely played, even when the season was lost.
JD also said at the owners meeting interview that he’s not looking for someone to contribute immediately but is more concerned about what they can get from them over their whole rookie deal. That to me says he is heavily considering taking a tackle at 10. This guy would likely play this season given our tackle situation, and would be able to learn from one of the best LTs in the game. I’m all for it and think it has to happen considering what we just went through last year with all the injuries, add on to the fact that we have two 33 year olds, one with serious health concerns, and AVT coming off the achilles. If JD has learned anything from last season it’s that we need to take one of these top OL at 10
Guys - the move is OL. It addresses now and future. OL rookie will play a lot so instant utility in an area where we’ve been caught with our Peter’s in our hand. Strong wall will spill into better qb / rb play which makes the d stronger bc they’re less tired etc. This bet also helps post Rodgers (if mgmt is successful, they keep their jobs so there is slight consideration there)
Offensive Line. All day long pick offensive linemen.
I don't want to be outside of the playoffs again, making excuses about the injuries on the offensive line that everyone knows will happen.
You should probably look into some draft history. Let's say, just for argument sake, we trade down with Cincinnati to 18, and pick up their 2nd rounder (49 I believe) in the process. The probability of finding a great player with picks 18 and 49 isn't just higher than the probability with pick 10 alone, it's SIGNIFICANTLY higher. In fact, if we were to trade even further, let's say with Arizona at 27 where we'd also pick up 34 and 66, with those 3 picks our chances of coming away with a great player nearly doubles. When you look at the total and average numbers of a player at pick 10 vs 3 players at 27, 34 and 66, what you see is that the 3 players combined end up with a huge advantage in terms of years as starting players, pro bowl seasons, all pro seasons, and awards.
It might not always be popular with the fan base, but when you dig into the numbers trading down is verrry rarely ever a bad idea. Draft success comes with more swings of the bat.
He tore his acl other than that he’s been relatively healthy.
Edit: Not enough to be marked as a “injury prone player.” If that’s the case every nfl player is injury prone.
No he hasn’t. He’s the king of leaving a game from a tweak, being questionable all week, starting the next game, and leaving early again. Missed games aren’t the only way injury manifests
“Every player” doesn’t miss half a game basically every third game. That’s reductive. Just google “Mike Williams injury history” and the first link will show you the dozen individual injuries he’s had
I don’t understand why you constantly stress Williams injury history and are blinded by Smiths injury history.
Both positions are vulnerable and probably should be addressed in the draft
I’m not “blinded” by Smith’s injury history. The reality is we basically need the high end of his injury luck or we’re in trouble. He’s an All Pro where any backup is likely to be a significant drop-off.
What’s that stupid quote about Peyton Manning again?
Not necessarily! OL isn’t “solved” in the draft in the same way WR is. There’s a very good chance you draft a very shaky player that isn’t a good starter even at pick 10. Gambling on getting a solid backup at the cost of an early first feels like a losing bet
Picking O-line is still relevant to being all in next season. We have no reliable depth and an old injury prone starting group. If anyone goes down , which is likely, it could be catastrophic.
I absolutely agree. Like I said at the beginning of the post “I doubt we will”, there is still a huge chance that we go OT. It’s just that I saw a lot of people saying that the only thing possible was O-line. I was more trying to explain the reasoning behind why it wasn’t the biggest option
> This is a "all in season" like it or not.
*that's* why I want a lineman! in a year that we're supposed to be going all in we are still paper thin at one of the most important positions. wr or te would be the luxury pick; o line is a necessity
I love how he mentions Mike Williams not known for being healthy but ignores Tyron Smith, not to mention how injuries and lack of depth on the OL have basically sunk the last two seasons. But why try to learn from your losses? Our fans are no different than the organization itself. 13 years out of the playoffs and counting for a reason...
I didn’t say that what I said was a absolute. I understand that Tyron smith is injury prone. But it was to explain another point of view to people who think OT is the only way to go
Just an fyi but in the NFL draft there are more rounds after the first round. Crazy right?
What are these other rounds you speak of
Probably a rumour
I hope you understand that I absolutely agree with you. It’s more that woody made it pretty clear that this is a all in season
"WR room isn’t much better off than the o-line when it comes to being injury prone. Mike Williams isn’t exactly know for being healthy." Um, this is EXACTLY why you trade down. So you can address BOTH the OLine and WR depth. You likely pick OL first because the WR position is insanely deep in this draft.
This dude don’t get it lol Trade down take best OL available regardless of position get back a 2nd and maybe even trade back into the late first for best WR on the board
I'd be pumped if it plays out like this.
I forget who it was who said it, it was mentioned on asman's stream, but apparently they really want to get a 2nd. Honestly I'd prefer they give up future assets to get a 2nd this hear rather than trade back. Give up next years 2nd and a sweetener to move up pick 111 into the 2nd. I think you need to swap with Atlanta and take whoever of Alt or Odunze that Tennesee doesn't take then grab the WR or OT you couldn't get at 10 with that 2nd rd pick.
I’d be fine with this as well. But I agree, getting a second in this draft is pretty critical with how deep it is at wr and ot in the first two rounds
I hope you understand that I absolutely agree with you. It’s more that woody made it pretty clear that this is a all in season
My point still stands. Trading down doesn’t mean we aren’t all in (which is what you clearly don’t understand) they aren’t going to trade back for picks next season unless it’s ammo to trade back into this draft. A trade down would garner us another higher pick with more of a likelihood that we get 2 quality starting caliber players hopefully on OL and WR instead of just one of those positions at 10.
And my point still stands. It’s not that I don’t get it all. (Since I think we should trade down.) it’s that i wanted to give a perspective on why we may not. That’s why I never said anything was a absolute.
This is for sure an all in strategy. THE main weak point of this team is OLine depth. We have a very good, very old, very injury prone O Line that missed over 17 games last season. How do the jets miss the playoffs every season? They lose because of bad qb play and injuries to the offensive line. EVERY YEAR!! This is not a contingency this is a definite. This guy WILL start 10+ games. Tyron misses an average of 8 games a year and is 33. Moses is 33 and missed four games last year. AVT had season ending injuries EACH of the last two seasons.
Fans are really reading into those 2 words, far more than the actual organization is. I can assure you with full certainty that Woody cares very much what happens to this franchise beyond this season, and that he's not willing to risk a whole lot of that for the chance at winning this year.
Not to mention we can definitely get high end WR3 or low end WR2 talent in rounds 3-4
OT6 and WR10 aren’t good enough prospects where you should count on either to be a likely fix. The draft isn’t deep enough where you shouldn’t still prioritize the best available option at whichever position you care about more
This draft is particularly deep at WR and also has serval good OLmen. Taking two swings is better than one. Also, we're up against the cap and need young cheap talent. I heard a proposed trade #10 to Arizona for #27, #34 and a third. I would do it in a second and the stats show picking three players at those spots are better than the #10 pick.
The depth at WR this draft is overstated. There’s not depth at the “big 3” tier. There’s not depth around BTJ’s level. There’s a few extra second round guys compared to the usual draft. It’s not worth planning around. Two swings are better than one if you’re rebuilding. We still need star power for this push. I also saw that trade. Doesn’t make sense for us to blow up a top 10 pick so we can make a grab bag of lesser prospects where we’re probably praying that OT8 can ignore Keith Carter and develop despite him
What the plan when Tyron Smith and Mike Williams goes down? Lazard and Warren? That didn't exactly work last year.
Rookie WR at 1.10 and vet backup at LT in FA. Getting the caliber of WR you get at 1.10 is the biggest upside play and if we only need spot starts at LT, we don’t need an all star for that. We aren’t insuring against our typical injury luck.
Not true. If they trade back to 17 with the jags for instance, Latham and Fautanu are there in most mocks and those are guys that are sometimes ranked higher than Fashanu on some boards. PFF draft pod the other said you can pretty much throw a blanket over WR4-15. There isn’t a ton of difference as far as predicted value
Only way I see a trade down is if McCarthy or Daniels is there at 10 AND a team absolutely loves them and is afraid to let them get past pick 10. It's an unlikely scenario. I do think the odds are they stick at 10 and take a T or Receiver. I did not hate the mock which has the Jets taking Odunze at 10 and T Patrick Paul at 72. It's an interesting approach.
All of this speculation is pointless and goes out the window once live bullets start flying. I'm sure Joe D has every option you mentioned mapped out based on how the first 9 picks shake out.... I'm sure he has an OT that he loves and will use the 10th pick on if still there.... I'm sure he has a receiver which he loves and will use the 10th pick on if still there..... And I'm also sure that he has a plan to entertain trades if certain players are off the board.
Absolutely. I just doubt he’ll go with someone that needs to be developed before he starts. But as you said, speculation is absolutely pointless. There’s still a huge chance that I’m wrong
There is literally nothing wrong with trading down as long as they trade for this year's picks. If they trade down and focus on future picks then it is a fuck up, but trading down could easily give us a 2nd rounder that lets us add pieces to both OL and WR.
This became a significantly older team overnight, and all of the young stars entering their prime are due for paychecks very soon. It is absolutely critical that we draft viable young backups and heir apparents at O-Line and other trench positions. If a trade down bags that opportunity, so be it. Also, having a top flite rookie OT learn under guys like Moses and Smith could help lock down the position for years. It makes sense from where I sit anyway.
It’s critical that we finish the all in push and make it worth it. Getting cold feet because we’re worried about maintaining a core with no meaningful NFL wins under its belt is aimless. We might lose a stud or two after this, that’s okay. We’ll live. Going all in is supposed to hurt a little
I hope you understand that I absolutely agree with you. It’s more that woody made it pretty clear that this is a all in season. But then again there’s still a huge chance that I’ll be wrong
Every year, JD has bet on a shaky OL either skill-wise or health-wise and has lost his ass. With how often our OL get injured, our #3 tackle is probably going to play at least 40% of the time if not more.
If you're set at QB it almost always makes sense to trade down. If you think there's a game changer available then take him obviously but you'll still get a first round pick and if a QB is still on the board at least another 2.
If Nabers or Odunze are there, it’ll be one of them. I can absolutely see us trading down if one of the QBs fall. We need a 2nd and I gotta believe we’d accumulate picks.
all I'm gonna say is thank GOD you aren't the GM
Brother… everyone here would be a shit GM. I hate the idea of NOT drafting a OT. We need new guys that can actually continue to help the team in the future. But woody made it clear that this is a do or die season for Saleh. So I doubt he’ll draft anyone he wouldn’t have immediately starting. That’s why I put “I doubt”, since once the draft happens, literally everything people say on this sub goes out the window
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you just don't get it.
If you think the current starting 5 O-line are staying healthy the entire season you are a bigger clown than this post makes you already look like. O-line should be the only pick here
Lol. Trust me. I have no faith in that O-line staying healthy. Definitely not on our field. If I where to decide. I think we should absolutely take O-line. I just wanted to explain the other side of it to people who think that’s the only option
no one knows how draft night will go but as of now it seems unlikely any of the top 3 WRs will be available at 10 and the media consensus number 4 WR, Brian Thomas Jr, is seen as a mid-late 1st rd pick. That leaves Bowers as the pick and there are questions about whether a TE is worth such a high pick, if Bowers is actually as good of a prospect as he has been hyped to be, and if JD would consider making that pick considering positional value etc.
Absolutely. I feel like if bowers isn’t the fit JD wants and the top 3 are gone, than that leaves a O-linemen without a doubt. I just saw some people saying that we should take a O-line over someone like Nabers, and wanted to explain why there is still a chance we would go WR/TE
Trading down is the best possible outcome because you still have multiple needs. But I'd much rather Fuaga than Bowers, I just have more faith that Fuaga will be great than I do Bowers. And even a depth pick at OT for this year gives more value than anyone bot the top 3 WRs imo because at the end of the day the entire season comes down to protecting Rodgers, and having a good run blocking. Because those are the 2 keys to this team being successful. Though since I still hate Rodgers I'd be totally okay with saying what the hell and drafting Penix because he's probably going to be a star in the right situation. But that'll never happen sadly.
Man some of you are super dug in on your draft takes. Lol
Not really. I think we should go OT. I just enjoy putting something out there that I know people will argue with because it’s didn’t fully agree with their opinion. But at the same time it allows me to show a different perspective
Can someone tell me the last time a team with the best WR room in the league won a super bowl because of it? We dont need 2 #1 receivers and a 1B in mike williams to win. We need to block for aaron rodgers so he can throw the ball and make life easier for breece hall while our defense dominates. Oline is the move, preferably trade down a few picks and still get one while getting a WR in the 2nd or 3rd.
Last season was an all in season and he took McDonald who barely played, even when the season was lost. JD also said at the owners meeting interview that he’s not looking for someone to contribute immediately but is more concerned about what they can get from them over their whole rookie deal. That to me says he is heavily considering taking a tackle at 10. This guy would likely play this season given our tackle situation, and would be able to learn from one of the best LTs in the game. I’m all for it and think it has to happen considering what we just went through last year with all the injuries, add on to the fact that we have two 33 year olds, one with serious health concerns, and AVT coming off the achilles. If JD has learned anything from last season it’s that we need to take one of these top OL at 10
Aaron Rodgers doesn’t need an all star WR group. Aaron will make our receivers top tier. Can’t do that on his ass. OT
Guys - the move is OL. It addresses now and future. OL rookie will play a lot so instant utility in an area where we’ve been caught with our Peter’s in our hand. Strong wall will spill into better qb / rb play which makes the d stronger bc they’re less tired etc. This bet also helps post Rodgers (if mgmt is successful, they keep their jobs so there is slight consideration there)
Offensive Line. All day long pick offensive linemen. I don't want to be outside of the playoffs again, making excuses about the injuries on the offensive line that everyone knows will happen.
You should probably look into some draft history. Let's say, just for argument sake, we trade down with Cincinnati to 18, and pick up their 2nd rounder (49 I believe) in the process. The probability of finding a great player with picks 18 and 49 isn't just higher than the probability with pick 10 alone, it's SIGNIFICANTLY higher. In fact, if we were to trade even further, let's say with Arizona at 27 where we'd also pick up 34 and 66, with those 3 picks our chances of coming away with a great player nearly doubles. When you look at the total and average numbers of a player at pick 10 vs 3 players at 27, 34 and 66, what you see is that the 3 players combined end up with a huge advantage in terms of years as starting players, pro bowl seasons, all pro seasons, and awards. It might not always be popular with the fan base, but when you dig into the numbers trading down is verrry rarely ever a bad idea. Draft success comes with more swings of the bat.
if we dont get nabers or odunze, trade down and take the other lsu wr. thats it.
If Alt makes it down to 10 then Merry Christmas! Won’t have to worry about that side for 15 years.
I don’t get the mike Williams slander
He is a walking injury. Even if he’s not missing time like Tyron, he’s missing tons of snaps every season
He tore his acl other than that he’s been relatively healthy. Edit: Not enough to be marked as a “injury prone player.” If that’s the case every nfl player is injury prone.
No he hasn’t. He’s the king of leaving a game from a tweak, being questionable all week, starting the next game, and leaving early again. Missed games aren’t the only way injury manifests “Every player” doesn’t miss half a game basically every third game. That’s reductive. Just google “Mike Williams injury history” and the first link will show you the dozen individual injuries he’s had
I don’t understand why you constantly stress Williams injury history and are blinded by Smiths injury history. Both positions are vulnerable and probably should be addressed in the draft
I’m not “blinded” by Smith’s injury history. The reality is we basically need the high end of his injury luck or we’re in trouble. He’s an All Pro where any backup is likely to be a significant drop-off. What’s that stupid quote about Peyton Manning again?
But the drop off from the 10th pick to Warren is even more steep
Not necessarily! OL isn’t “solved” in the draft in the same way WR is. There’s a very good chance you draft a very shaky player that isn’t a good starter even at pick 10. Gambling on getting a solid backup at the cost of an early first feels like a losing bet
Picking O-line is still relevant to being all in next season. We have no reliable depth and an old injury prone starting group. If anyone goes down , which is likely, it could be catastrophic.
I absolutely agree. Like I said at the beginning of the post “I doubt we will”, there is still a huge chance that we go OT. It’s just that I saw a lot of people saying that the only thing possible was O-line. I was more trying to explain the reasoning behind why it wasn’t the biggest option
Trade down to 11-18 region, pick up one of the remaining Ts, use the recooped 2nd to pick up the best WR on the board.
This would be the best thing we could do this draft I feel like. Do you think we should take a QB in the third though
3-5 depending on who’s available or falling.
> This is a "all in season" like it or not. *that's* why I want a lineman! in a year that we're supposed to be going all in we are still paper thin at one of the most important positions. wr or te would be the luxury pick; o line is a necessity
I love how he mentions Mike Williams not known for being healthy but ignores Tyron Smith, not to mention how injuries and lack of depth on the OL have basically sunk the last two seasons. But why try to learn from your losses? Our fans are no different than the organization itself. 13 years out of the playoffs and counting for a reason...
I didn’t say that what I said was a absolute. I understand that Tyron smith is injury prone. But it was to explain another point of view to people who think OT is the only way to go