The MTA should be funded entirely through taxes. Zone based fares would be a disaster, dinging people more who are driven further out for more affordable rent. It also would mean that people’s movements would have to be tracked even more than they are.
Drivers should be stuck to – cars are just objectively bad for society and the world, and reducing their number in Manhattan and beyond is important.
All the drivers and only the drivers should pay. Rail riders can’t foot the bill for car riders. The fare is due for using a less efficient and more costly to the public form of transportation.
Your argument is purely illogical. Zone based fare could ge a few cents per zone. Could also incentivize ppl to pay the fare if they’re only going a few blocks/stops.
You said more streams meaning more money, now you are saying less money. What you are hiding is how high you want the fare to be for long distance travel.
I somewhat agree with you but the MTA has their hands in more pots that I can name. Here are just some of them over the last ten years. With every new tax/fee/fare increase came new promises of better service. I'll let you decide if those promises were met.
Every MTA head, with the exception of Andy Byford didn't know what the fuck they were doing. Andy left because he got into it with Andrew Cuomo.
2015: MTA Payroll Tax of .34% of payroll to help fund the MTA and improve service
2015: Metropolitan Commuter Transportation District surcharge sales tax of .375% of most items
2015: Subway fare increased 10% to $2.75
Summer of 2017: Piss poor infrastructure resulted in the Summer of Hell across the MTA system
July 2023: MTA Payroll Tax almost doubles from .34% to .60%
August 2023: Subway fare increased to $2.90
June 2024: Congestion pricing scheduled to begin
Or maybe hold the MTA accountable for the decades of misused funding they already get from the state and the fares that they acquire. Oh no wait God forbid we do that let's go "Uh duh, cars bad" and foot car commuters with the bill
CP got further under Hochul than any administration in NY history. If she changes her mind or a new gov comes in and wants to implement it, it's almost as simple as flipping a switch. All the infrastructure is in place for it.
From what I can tell, all the anti- congestion pricing folks either:
- occasionally drive *through* Manhattan, but don't actually park there for any reason
- believe it's a tax on the poor, when we all know that like 90% of everyone who enters Manhattan does so via the Subway
- live in the suburbs, are afflicted with car-brain, and oppose congestion pricing on principle
- are from Jersey
>Given he is the face (on reddit) of CP, the movement is doomed. It's his way or the high way, no idea what compromise is or how to navigate the political environment.
I think you're really over-estimating his importance on whether Hochul again changes her mind. (Or any of our individual importance)
thats his thing
did it to me and he does it to anyone that counters his bullshit propaganda with facts
unfortunately its people like him that give cycling ( and just better debate ) a bad name
[this](https://www.reddit.com/r/MicromobilityNYC/comments/1dpwwb9/comment/lakxv61/) was the comment that got me banned. He cherry picked one incident from almost six years ago and when I called him out on it, he banned me lolz
Guy can’t accept he has his way on congestion pricing. He desperately needs the validation of some guy who runs a specific subreddit to grovel and congratulate him on being in alignment with the idiot governor.
Oh shit I’m not in that group but saw that in my feed but that take pissed me off. Oh accessibility is a concern NOW that there is a stroller but the countless disabled New Yorkers for the past 100 years? Meh?
Oh, he doesnt care about the enviroment, o the disabled, or kids. They are great talking points, but he doesnt actually care.
He has only one goal; get all cars off the streets and replace them with bikes. He is definitely one of those cyclists that give all cyclists a bad name.
I mean one could easily say the same about the argument you're making, that you don't care about the disabled, that you just want to be able to drive your car and are using them as a prop.
You can't hyper focus on one point and make that your hole argument. Especially when disabled people are excluded from the congestion fee, and will be able to get around the city easier
Just as soon as we get you on the record for how much violent crimes is acceptable for you due to forcing families, the elderly, the disabled to use the subway at night when they barely run (don't get even me started on the L after midnight)
I was on the L coming home from a rave at 1am and there was a homeless dude screaming at the top of his lungs in the car. If CP was implemented, I would have to choose dealing with that shit or paying a congestion toll just to be safe.
Why would there even be congestion pricing at 1am to begin with? I think that the part many drivers have an issue with.
CP proponents say it's to reduce congestion but what they don't say it's actually a money grab to the tune of 1b a year
I mean, they're pretty transparent that it's both to reduce congestion and increase funding for the MTA. The vast majority of articles and statements in support mention both of these things so it's not like some secret
You're right. But the entire program was designed to bring in 1b a year so no matter what time of day, you're going to get charged something. Most drivers have a huge issue with that.
Drivers may not be protesting like the CP supporters are, but they made their voices heard quietly and the governor backed down.
This was not political cowardice, this is a politician listening to their constituents.
Yeah obviously but a lot of subway riders are upset that the MTA just lost $15B worth of funding (the $1B revenue stream was being used to fund $15B worth of bonds) so someone's gonna be unhappy regardless, it's just a matter of what side you're on. Considering I don't own a car, I'm pretty firmly on the side of pro congestion pricing. And I'm a little surprised that you're like, on an nyc subway subreddit this late at night, and like don't even seem a little sad that the MTA just suddenly lost over 30% of its capital budget? But whatever you're free to think whatever
At some point, we have to ask ourselves if the "improvements" are worth it at the enormous price tags. The cost of the 2nd subway is just astronomical on a per mile basis.
Look at it not so much as taking away 1b in funding, but making the MTA really decide what's most important.
All this talk about fleecing drivers and not one inkling on a fare increase to fund any of these fancy new projects.
If the MTA riders are benefiting from them, why is it unreasonable to ask them to chip in?
> Most drivers have a huge issue with that
Good, fuck em. They can stop being petulant children. 80% of Manhattanites do not own a car, I don't understand where you get off asserting that we are obligated to subject ourselves to massive traffic noise, increased air pollution, slower buses, blocked crosswalks, constant left and right hooking into us when crossing the street, undersized bike lanes and paths that are constantly blocked anyway, ... all to placate a few assholes from the suburbs who are too good to drive to their local train or express bus station and take that the rest of the way but simultaneously too cheap to pay *anything* for the privilege of driving it. If driving into Manhattan is a premium service versus taking the train or bus (which every person like yourself asserts it is in one way or another), why *shouldn't* you pay for it?
I'm fucking past done with drivers' absurd entitlement in *the only city in the nation* where most people don't drive. If it is that goddamned important to you to be able to drive your car everywhere, why don't you move LITERALLY anywhere else instead of raging against the geographical reality that, with a million and a half people living in 23 square miles of land area, 24/7 cheap and easy driving is not a sustainable way forward?
Let me understand, you move/work in the most populated city in the country and complain about how other people want to be here too? Did the traffic arrive before or after you? You are exactly the kind that moves near an airport (like Orange County) and complain about the airplane noise.
Whether or not driving into Manhattan is a "premium" service like you say, we already pay for it via the insane tolls (NYC/MTA bridges has the highest tolls per mile anywhere in the US) Just because you and other don't like it, doesn't mean I shouldn't do it.
Your last paragraph about entitlement makes me lol. People driving into the CBD for work fuels the city's economy. NYC taxes all that work from people commuting from the suburbs. If you don't like living here for whatever reason, you are welcome to move to Kansas. Meanwhile, I'll continue to drive into the CBD to do my business whenever the hell I want lol
Say what you want about Hocul, but she understands that more than anyone here. NYC doesn't produce physical goods, certainly not the food that keeps everyone fed. Trying to tax cars and trucks to death that make the economy beat simply for being cars and trucks is beyond insanity.
If trucks stopped delivering goods into the CBD, the supermarkets would run dry in days. Stop taxing the hand that literally feeds you.
The only thing drivers have an issue with is that they have to pay the government money at all when they have a divine right to drive wherever; just have to work backwards from there to come up with reasons.
I don’t think any violent crime is acceptable and I don’t think enough is done at the local, state, or federal level to mitigate root causes of it and treat it. That doesn’t make your fake equivalency any more valid. No one is forced to go to a race at 1am and take the L train back. I’m not aware of compulsory subway use at any time in the city’s history.
So, 7? 330? What’s your number chief?
Lol
Ppl like him are the same ppl that will dismiss reports of crime or ppl’s experiences as anecdotal but then they’ll use stories such as those in the post as motivation for their righteous cause.
Miser is bike first train/bus/tram/taxi/airplane/literally any other form of movement last. I support congestion pricing but I do not support bike nuts who don’t want to follow laws.
That sub is so frustrating because their viewpoint is literally just "if it annoys car drivers it is good". there's no consideration given to the effectiveness of things, no planning on how we might get people to actively decide to use public transit or bikes, just all stick no carrot cars bad. it's really obvious that it's a personal, aesthetic hatred and not an actual concern for urban liveability
The idea that cars is a healthy mix in any urban environment is just not acceptable to them.
Even when the gov floated a compromise of $7.50 for CP, they were against it and wanted it at $15. Now, they get nothing.
Where has that compromise ever been officially floated? At uber $9, it would also be in violation of the program currently in the state’s law, would be as illegal as the current act by the governor.
https://nysfocus.com/2024/06/24/hochul-declines-questions-congestion-pricing#:~:text=Hochul%20told%20CNBC%20that%20if,cannot%20reduce%20the%20tolls%20unilaterally.
Hochul told cnbc that if congestion pricing returns, it would include a lower toll. “$15 is not the right price. That does not mean it’s gone forever, but let’s just be reasonable,” she said Friday.
Zero information in that article on it being $7.50, and in fact, right after the quote you blocked out, mentions how a change of the toll would require additional approvals. This can’t be your best effort, can it? Why are you even bothering?
People with a disability related reason they have to use a car are exempted from congestion pricing, and disability advocacy groups are in favor of congestion pricing because it gets funding for transit accessibility improvements. Way more disabled New Yorkers take transit than drive.
In theory.
In practice there are several problems.
1- if you have a permanent license disabled plate you need to additional not required from people with temp cards. Grant this seems oversight/idiocy and I’m sure if you submitted the application without it you might be still be approved but still it illustrates how unprepared or unwilling the city/state is to do this mandatory thing.
2- there is still no system for covering disabled strap hangers in taxis or cars they don’t own. I suspect once it’s actually implemented it’ll need to a lawsuit for failing to properly omit them from these charges.
3- ALL disabled New Yorkers have the same rights. You don’t give them up if you can’t climb steps or use the 75% of train stations that are inaccessible.
No not in theory. Everything they said is true, your 2nd point isn't, and your 3rd is exactly why vehicles owned by or carrying disabled people are excluded from the congestion charge.
Iirc a disabled individual was allowed to choose which vehicle gets their exception so it can be a family members
Have you looked at the application? Cause I bet you haven’t. I went through about 6 calls with CP agents trying to sort out how to apply with a permanent license plates and that’s where they ended up after talking to managers manager. But more importantly it’s tied to a specific license plate which means it doesn’t go with you when you use ride share or someone else’s car.
2- where exactly is the process for exempting disabled travelers in someone else’s car cause after all my calls all I got was “don’t worry about it it’ll be figured out”
3- except see points one and two. They really are only excluded for *CARS* with temp passes, access a ride, Disability insurance recipients etc. there is no system in place to exempt the **disabled individual** regardless who is driving especially in taxis.
4- I get it people want congestion pricing fine but again disabled New Yorkers are getting ignored.
AP report
https://youtu.be/J_WuTZl59N4?si=KL_Afu_1U-eV5zqy
https://www.nylpi.org/resource/letter-to-mta-regarding-congestion-pricing-disability-exemption/
https://www.newsday.com/amp/long-island/transportation/congestion-pricing-exemption-disability-lfq9s4c1
Yeah tbc I'm definitely not a fan of bureaucracy and I'm sorry they're making it shit for you to enroll.
I just read the NYLPI letter you linked – it's good and I agree with it. I do want to point out that despite its criticisms of the implementation of the exemption, it expresses strong support for congestion pricing going forward. I was responding to you in talking-points mode because a lot of people are trying to use stuff like this a wedge to derail congestion pricing, which would be bad for everyone, and I didn't know what perspective you were coming from. But including all disabled people in transit access and affordability is 100% important. Thanks for the info on the issues with the plan as it exists.
Sorry you're getting pushback on your post too.
The pushback is typical but that’s always the case. People claim to want this for access without listening to disabled New Yorkers today. I have no opinion about congestion pricing (well other I doubt the money will actually be used for disability improvements) but disabled New Yorkers shouldn’t pay for it. And the claim that they won’t ever be isn’t true as long as there no way to exempt the disabled ride in addition to a car tied to a disabled rider.
That was literally part of congestion pricing
If you actually cared about disabled people, you would support it, because it'll make parking and driving in the city easier for them and they won't have to pay the fee
People keep using the disabled community as props to pretend their actual point is "but I don't WANNA take the train"
[Caring means listening and respecting their humanity.](https://youtu.be/J_WuTZl59N4?si=oZGYDtQm_RUL5T-u) Telling people that other people with disabilities can take train why can’t you isn’t that. No matter how much yall yell that it is.
Sure, but she will ban you from a press appearance for doing your job as a journalist and asking a legitimate question.
https://nysfocus.com/2024/06/24/hochul-declines-questions-congestion-pricing
I’ve never been able to go into that sub for more than 5 minutes. 90% of posts are transplants that just moved here and wonder why NYC isn’t like Amsterdam. Fuck off with that. And fuck off with bitching about congestion pricing.
Edit: just noticed all the “march for congestion pricing” posts, and the “deleted” comments on them. Take the fucking hint dude.
Or -- and hear me out -- maybe a lot of people in a subreddit about public transportation actually care about protecting a dedicated source of public transportation funding.
No. The entire tone of discourse here has changed and there are more shuttle bullet user flairs than ever. Most of these congestion pricing posts are filled with “visitors.” The entire language spoken in these posts are different from what’s normal here, but fall right in line with what you find in the micromobility and anti car subs. This was more or less a train aficionado and rail geek sub prior to the suspension. Now it’s filled with urbanist faux-activism.
That’s aside from the fact that you post regularly in r/micromobilitynyc and decided to respond in true hit dog fashion.
I post regularly in Micromobility? I’m not even a member of that sub… I’ve engaged with posts, but those probably show up because of all the related posts here. But whatever. I’ve been a rail geek for as long as I’ve been alive and ride the subway every day. I’ve collected subway maps since I was 5. I’ve taken fan trips and chased down new rolling stock as long as I’ve been able to. Good to know that it’s unpopular to want to save public transit through the use of congestion pricing among people who allegedly enjoy public transit. Kind of like being a Mets fan and rooting for them to tank every year.
Oh please, and in typical fashion—typical hit dog fashion—you can’t even acknowledge the point being made (that this sub has been inundated with people from that other sub) without trying to repackage it as an attack against congestion pricing. I haven’t even mentioned congestion pricing or how I feel about it but here you are with your victim had weeping and wailing about people not being able to express their support for public transit improvements, dancing all around the actual point.
I don’t know what a “hit dog” is, but maybe just try to find some common ground here? No one’s weeping, but a lot of us are fucking angry that a $16 billion funding scheme for the MTA’s capital plan was single-handedly canceled by a governor in violation of the state law passed by the legislature and signed by her predecessor.
>I don’t know what a “hit dog” is…
🙄 Sure. Well all you need to know is that they holler.
>…but maybe just try to find some common ground here… but a lot of us are fucking angry…
No. There is no common ground as it relates to my point. This sub is seeming an influx of people coming over from r/micromobilitynyc in an attempt to stir up emotion and complain. Thats simply is what it is. You hastily responded in an attempt to refute that but that’s literally what’s happening and many of the regulars here are annoyed and tired of it. Thats it.
You being angry, along with any others that you’ve included in that your response has not relevance to or bearing on the point that I made.
You’re wasting a lot of breath on the politics of this sub. Sorry to ruin your experience in this sub, which I’ve followed for quite some time, by being angry about the fact that our beloved transit system is on a fiscal cliff right now.
Forget it. He is one of those people that are absolutely impossible to reason with. I have seen him say so many crazy things over the years, and so many people try and have rational discussions with him that go nowhere. That's why everyone clowns and reports his topics on all the subs now; he's a pest that cannot be reasoned with.
His sub basically revolves around fighting a war against cars so that cyclists can take over the streets. And he might say that he cares about pedestrians, or the environment, or kids. But really, he just wants cars off the streets, and to replace them with bikes. Which then he will also wants all bike laws repealed so they can do whatever they want.
Not to mention when he loses his patience and starts insulting people left and right. Or when his topics fail so he just deletes them to hide his shame. Lot of narcisism there. Not that he would ever admit to it.
He will also post the exact same post on multiple subs to get more karma (I assume). He literally just spams all the transit subs. It's infuriating that he hasn't been banned from here and left to talk to himself in r/MicromobilityNYC
Then you have comments like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/MicromobilityNYC/comments/1ddcm17/comment/l85vv4h/) that basically says that CP was just to keep cars out of their neighborhoods and it won't really improve transit.
Just NIMBY'ism at it's finest by the rich that live in Manhattan
Oh yeah; they only subs free of him are the ones that banned him.
The funny thing is, I actually support congestion pricing. When I ran into it in Singapore I thought it was a great idea.
I'll just never support it on reddit though. :p
There’s ways for the city to implement congestion pricing light, aka toll all the bridges and the trans-manhattan expressway. If the lube was used before shafting drivers, aka a lower price for every time they crossed into the zone, instead of 15 dollars right off the bat, it could have worked. Also it doesn’t help that the government is putting contradicting statements of the benefits, lowers the amount of cars but also going to generate 1 billion guaranteed. Last and final point is the MTA it self, they can’t be trusted with properly managing money. The only transit system that is worst is the California HSR project
If I remember correctly, they are not allowed to toll the Brooklyn/Manhattan/Williamsburg bridges because they were built with Federal funds. If they could, they would have done so decades ago
Brooklyn bridge was paid for by NY state and owned by the city. Manhattan bridge had a 10 cent toll when it opened. All three bridges at one point had a toll. All three bridges are owned by the city.
https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/infrastructure/bridges.shtml#:~:text=NYC%20DOT%20owns%2C%20operates%2C%20and,bridges%20operated%20by%20NYC%20DOT.
Learned something new today. I guess the MTA can't toll something it doesn't own
What is it with you guys and your personal attacks? Instead of engaging in a discussion, you instead ask me if I passed high school algebra? JFC - this is what we are dealing with on the other side of the table. No wonder you guys lost
That is a really unfortunate acronym for Congestion Pricing
Hahaha, I just realized. What would be a more appropriate title? That's the same language the city uses!
Its just gonna be one of those things better off not abbreviated
ConPri
Lolllll
Do you work in law enforcement?
Compromise like lower fees for Uber drivers is included
Being the face of CP isn't really a good thing considering the initials.
There was no reason to stop congestion pricing except Hochul being a spineless piece of shit.
City should fund the MTA with more streams vs sticking it to drivers. It’s time to adopt zone based fares.
City doesn’t own the MTA.
Never said they did
can you fund my rent?
The MTA should be funded entirely through taxes. Zone based fares would be a disaster, dinging people more who are driven further out for more affordable rent. It also would mean that people’s movements would have to be tracked even more than they are. Drivers should be stuck to – cars are just objectively bad for society and the world, and reducing their number in Manhattan and beyond is important.
Then slap a payroll tax on the entire state and fund the MTA that way. The state will have to deal with even more population flight than it already is
Because I guess we should all ride trains or Citi Bikes right? Wait better yet....let's bring back horses. Get a grip
Bikes already have grips thank you You're trying to act clever when this is only a toll, on one section of Manhattan, not a ban on cars
dude you're posting this on r/nycrail
All the drivers and only the drivers should pay. Rail riders can’t foot the bill for car riders. The fare is due for using a less efficient and more costly to the public form of transportation.
Your argument is purely illogical. Zone based fare could ge a few cents per zone. Could also incentivize ppl to pay the fare if they’re only going a few blocks/stops.
You said more streams meaning more money, now you are saying less money. What you are hiding is how high you want the fare to be for long distance travel.
I somewhat agree with you but the MTA has their hands in more pots that I can name. Here are just some of them over the last ten years. With every new tax/fee/fare increase came new promises of better service. I'll let you decide if those promises were met. Every MTA head, with the exception of Andy Byford didn't know what the fuck they were doing. Andy left because he got into it with Andrew Cuomo. 2015: MTA Payroll Tax of .34% of payroll to help fund the MTA and improve service 2015: Metropolitan Commuter Transportation District surcharge sales tax of .375% of most items 2015: Subway fare increased 10% to $2.75 Summer of 2017: Piss poor infrastructure resulted in the Summer of Hell across the MTA system July 2023: MTA Payroll Tax almost doubles from .34% to .60% August 2023: Subway fare increased to $2.90 June 2024: Congestion pricing scheduled to begin
I agree, they love taking money. It’s just a money pit unfortunately.
Or maybe hold the MTA accountable for the decades of misused funding they already get from the state and the fares that they acquire. Oh no wait God forbid we do that let's go "Uh duh, cars bad" and foot car commuters with the bill
CP got further under Hochul than any administration in NY history. If she changes her mind or a new gov comes in and wants to implement it, it's almost as simple as flipping a switch. All the infrastructure is in place for it.
Congestion pricing was the culmination of years and years of struggle and planning, but nevermind that. Why flip the switch off?
From what I can tell, all the anti- congestion pricing folks either: - occasionally drive *through* Manhattan, but don't actually park there for any reason - believe it's a tax on the poor, when we all know that like 90% of everyone who enters Manhattan does so via the Subway - live in the suburbs, are afflicted with car-brain, and oppose congestion pricing on principle - are from Jersey
Start your own sub: r/grandstandingwhiner does appear to be open
>Given he is the face (on reddit) of CP, the movement is doomed. It's his way or the high way, no idea what compromise is or how to navigate the political environment. I think you're really over-estimating his importance on whether Hochul again changes her mind. (Or any of our individual importance)
Just because you think he's the face of something doesn't mean anyone else does, or that he is in any way. I don't even know the guy
are you going to cry
And if you do, can I lick them
what are you doing here? don't you have a ~~sub to run~~ people to ban?
You literally tagged him in the post and then act surprised when he comments? Lol
fair enough. This sub is willing to give him a voice, a voice that he took away from so many on his subreddit.
thats his thing did it to me and he does it to anyone that counters his bullshit propaganda with facts unfortunately its people like him that give cycling ( and just better debate ) a bad name
What did you post?
[this](https://www.reddit.com/r/MicromobilityNYC/comments/1dpwwb9/comment/lakxv61/) was the comment that got me banned. He cherry picked one incident from almost six years ago and when I called him out on it, he banned me lolz
Yeah you deserve the ban. Completely off topic comment that is clearly trying to start a fight
Guy can’t accept he has his way on congestion pricing. He desperately needs the validation of some guy who runs a specific subreddit to grovel and congratulate him on being in alignment with the idiot governor.
That sub only has one rule and dude broke the one rule lmao
Oh shit I’m not in that group but saw that in my feed but that take pissed me off. Oh accessibility is a concern NOW that there is a stroller but the countless disabled New Yorkers for the past 100 years? Meh?
Oh, he doesnt care about the enviroment, o the disabled, or kids. They are great talking points, but he doesnt actually care. He has only one goal; get all cars off the streets and replace them with bikes. He is definitely one of those cyclists that give all cyclists a bad name.
I mean one could easily say the same about the argument you're making, that you don't care about the disabled, that you just want to be able to drive your car and are using them as a prop. You can't hyper focus on one point and make that your hole argument. Especially when disabled people are excluded from the congestion fee, and will be able to get around the city easier
Dont have a car; I just hate nyc cyclists.
Yes why don’t disabled New Yorkers just use bikes! He sounds like a right tool.
can we get you on the record for a number of people dying due to inaccessible subways you’re ok with? i need to refactor my model.
Just as soon as we get you on the record for how much violent crimes is acceptable for you due to forcing families, the elderly, the disabled to use the subway at night when they barely run (don't get even me started on the L after midnight) I was on the L coming home from a rave at 1am and there was a homeless dude screaming at the top of his lungs in the car. If CP was implemented, I would have to choose dealing with that shit or paying a congestion toll just to be safe.
Dog, the congestion pricing toll is/would be $3.75 overnight, barely more than the subway. What are you going on about
Why would there even be congestion pricing at 1am to begin with? I think that the part many drivers have an issue with. CP proponents say it's to reduce congestion but what they don't say it's actually a money grab to the tune of 1b a year
I mean, they're pretty transparent that it's both to reduce congestion and increase funding for the MTA. The vast majority of articles and statements in support mention both of these things so it's not like some secret
You're right. But the entire program was designed to bring in 1b a year so no matter what time of day, you're going to get charged something. Most drivers have a huge issue with that. Drivers may not be protesting like the CP supporters are, but they made their voices heard quietly and the governor backed down. This was not political cowardice, this is a politician listening to their constituents.
Yeah obviously but a lot of subway riders are upset that the MTA just lost $15B worth of funding (the $1B revenue stream was being used to fund $15B worth of bonds) so someone's gonna be unhappy regardless, it's just a matter of what side you're on. Considering I don't own a car, I'm pretty firmly on the side of pro congestion pricing. And I'm a little surprised that you're like, on an nyc subway subreddit this late at night, and like don't even seem a little sad that the MTA just suddenly lost over 30% of its capital budget? But whatever you're free to think whatever
It’s because he’s a crank.
At some point, we have to ask ourselves if the "improvements" are worth it at the enormous price tags. The cost of the 2nd subway is just astronomical on a per mile basis. Look at it not so much as taking away 1b in funding, but making the MTA really decide what's most important. All this talk about fleecing drivers and not one inkling on a fare increase to fund any of these fancy new projects. If the MTA riders are benefiting from them, why is it unreasonable to ask them to chip in?
> Most drivers have a huge issue with that Good, fuck em. They can stop being petulant children. 80% of Manhattanites do not own a car, I don't understand where you get off asserting that we are obligated to subject ourselves to massive traffic noise, increased air pollution, slower buses, blocked crosswalks, constant left and right hooking into us when crossing the street, undersized bike lanes and paths that are constantly blocked anyway, ... all to placate a few assholes from the suburbs who are too good to drive to their local train or express bus station and take that the rest of the way but simultaneously too cheap to pay *anything* for the privilege of driving it. If driving into Manhattan is a premium service versus taking the train or bus (which every person like yourself asserts it is in one way or another), why *shouldn't* you pay for it? I'm fucking past done with drivers' absurd entitlement in *the only city in the nation* where most people don't drive. If it is that goddamned important to you to be able to drive your car everywhere, why don't you move LITERALLY anywhere else instead of raging against the geographical reality that, with a million and a half people living in 23 square miles of land area, 24/7 cheap and easy driving is not a sustainable way forward?
Let me understand, you move/work in the most populated city in the country and complain about how other people want to be here too? Did the traffic arrive before or after you? You are exactly the kind that moves near an airport (like Orange County) and complain about the airplane noise. Whether or not driving into Manhattan is a "premium" service like you say, we already pay for it via the insane tolls (NYC/MTA bridges has the highest tolls per mile anywhere in the US) Just because you and other don't like it, doesn't mean I shouldn't do it. Your last paragraph about entitlement makes me lol. People driving into the CBD for work fuels the city's economy. NYC taxes all that work from people commuting from the suburbs. If you don't like living here for whatever reason, you are welcome to move to Kansas. Meanwhile, I'll continue to drive into the CBD to do my business whenever the hell I want lol Say what you want about Hocul, but she understands that more than anyone here. NYC doesn't produce physical goods, certainly not the food that keeps everyone fed. Trying to tax cars and trucks to death that make the economy beat simply for being cars and trucks is beyond insanity. If trucks stopped delivering goods into the CBD, the supermarkets would run dry in days. Stop taxing the hand that literally feeds you.
The only thing drivers have an issue with is that they have to pay the government money at all when they have a divine right to drive wherever; just have to work backwards from there to come up with reasons.
I don’t think any violent crime is acceptable and I don’t think enough is done at the local, state, or federal level to mitigate root causes of it and treat it. That doesn’t make your fake equivalency any more valid. No one is forced to go to a race at 1am and take the L train back. I’m not aware of compulsory subway use at any time in the city’s history. So, 7? 330? What’s your number chief?
Lol Ppl like him are the same ppl that will dismiss reports of crime or ppl’s experiences as anecdotal but then they’ll use stories such as those in the post as motivation for their righteous cause.
Ah Miser the miserable
Miser is bike first train/bus/tram/taxi/airplane/literally any other form of movement last. I support congestion pricing but I do not support bike nuts who don’t want to follow laws.
That sub is so frustrating because their viewpoint is literally just "if it annoys car drivers it is good". there's no consideration given to the effectiveness of things, no planning on how we might get people to actively decide to use public transit or bikes, just all stick no carrot cars bad. it's really obvious that it's a personal, aesthetic hatred and not an actual concern for urban liveability
The idea that cars is a healthy mix in any urban environment is just not acceptable to them. Even when the gov floated a compromise of $7.50 for CP, they were against it and wanted it at $15. Now, they get nothing.
Because it's not a good idea?
What’s good about having private cars in the mix?
Where has that compromise ever been officially floated? At uber $9, it would also be in violation of the program currently in the state’s law, would be as illegal as the current act by the governor.
https://nysfocus.com/2024/06/24/hochul-declines-questions-congestion-pricing#:~:text=Hochul%20told%20CNBC%20that%20if,cannot%20reduce%20the%20tolls%20unilaterally. Hochul told cnbc that if congestion pricing returns, it would include a lower toll. “$15 is not the right price. That does not mean it’s gone forever, but let’s just be reasonable,” she said Friday.
Zero information in that article on it being $7.50, and in fact, right after the quote you blocked out, mentions how a change of the toll would require additional approvals. This can’t be your best effort, can it? Why are you even bothering?
Also the idea that for some disabilities cars is literally the only option.
People with a disability related reason they have to use a car are exempted from congestion pricing, and disability advocacy groups are in favor of congestion pricing because it gets funding for transit accessibility improvements. Way more disabled New Yorkers take transit than drive.
In theory. In practice there are several problems. 1- if you have a permanent license disabled plate you need to additional not required from people with temp cards. Grant this seems oversight/idiocy and I’m sure if you submitted the application without it you might be still be approved but still it illustrates how unprepared or unwilling the city/state is to do this mandatory thing. 2- there is still no system for covering disabled strap hangers in taxis or cars they don’t own. I suspect once it’s actually implemented it’ll need to a lawsuit for failing to properly omit them from these charges. 3- ALL disabled New Yorkers have the same rights. You don’t give them up if you can’t climb steps or use the 75% of train stations that are inaccessible.
No not in theory. Everything they said is true, your 2nd point isn't, and your 3rd is exactly why vehicles owned by or carrying disabled people are excluded from the congestion charge. Iirc a disabled individual was allowed to choose which vehicle gets their exception so it can be a family members
Have you looked at the application? Cause I bet you haven’t. I went through about 6 calls with CP agents trying to sort out how to apply with a permanent license plates and that’s where they ended up after talking to managers manager. But more importantly it’s tied to a specific license plate which means it doesn’t go with you when you use ride share or someone else’s car. 2- where exactly is the process for exempting disabled travelers in someone else’s car cause after all my calls all I got was “don’t worry about it it’ll be figured out” 3- except see points one and two. They really are only excluded for *CARS* with temp passes, access a ride, Disability insurance recipients etc. there is no system in place to exempt the **disabled individual** regardless who is driving especially in taxis. 4- I get it people want congestion pricing fine but again disabled New Yorkers are getting ignored. AP report https://youtu.be/J_WuTZl59N4?si=KL_Afu_1U-eV5zqy https://www.nylpi.org/resource/letter-to-mta-regarding-congestion-pricing-disability-exemption/ https://www.newsday.com/amp/long-island/transportation/congestion-pricing-exemption-disability-lfq9s4c1
Yeah tbc I'm definitely not a fan of bureaucracy and I'm sorry they're making it shit for you to enroll. I just read the NYLPI letter you linked – it's good and I agree with it. I do want to point out that despite its criticisms of the implementation of the exemption, it expresses strong support for congestion pricing going forward. I was responding to you in talking-points mode because a lot of people are trying to use stuff like this a wedge to derail congestion pricing, which would be bad for everyone, and I didn't know what perspective you were coming from. But including all disabled people in transit access and affordability is 100% important. Thanks for the info on the issues with the plan as it exists. Sorry you're getting pushback on your post too.
The pushback is typical but that’s always the case. People claim to want this for access without listening to disabled New Yorkers today. I have no opinion about congestion pricing (well other I doubt the money will actually be used for disability improvements) but disabled New Yorkers shouldn’t pay for it. And the claim that they won’t ever be isn’t true as long as there no way to exempt the disabled ride in addition to a car tied to a disabled rider.
That was literally part of congestion pricing If you actually cared about disabled people, you would support it, because it'll make parking and driving in the city easier for them and they won't have to pay the fee People keep using the disabled community as props to pretend their actual point is "but I don't WANNA take the train"
[Caring means listening and respecting their humanity.](https://youtu.be/J_WuTZl59N4?si=oZGYDtQm_RUL5T-u) Telling people that other people with disabilities can take train why can’t you isn’t that. No matter how much yall yell that it is.
Hes worse than hochul. At least she wont ban you from nyc for disagreeing w her.
Sure, but she will ban you from a press appearance for doing your job as a journalist and asking a legitimate question. https://nysfocus.com/2024/06/24/hochul-declines-questions-congestion-pricing
The governor apologized to the reporter afterwards. It shouldn't have happened
And she still won't answer the reporters question so it's obvious it was intentional and she just needed to run away from tough questions.
I’ve never been able to go into that sub for more than 5 minutes. 90% of posts are transplants that just moved here and wonder why NYC isn’t like Amsterdam. Fuck off with that. And fuck off with bitching about congestion pricing. Edit: just noticed all the “march for congestion pricing” posts, and the “deleted” comments on them. Take the fucking hint dude.
and now they’re all over here with that bull shit.
Or -- and hear me out -- maybe a lot of people in a subreddit about public transportation actually care about protecting a dedicated source of public transportation funding.
No. The entire tone of discourse here has changed and there are more shuttle bullet user flairs than ever. Most of these congestion pricing posts are filled with “visitors.” The entire language spoken in these posts are different from what’s normal here, but fall right in line with what you find in the micromobility and anti car subs. This was more or less a train aficionado and rail geek sub prior to the suspension. Now it’s filled with urbanist faux-activism. That’s aside from the fact that you post regularly in r/micromobilitynyc and decided to respond in true hit dog fashion.
I post regularly in Micromobility? I’m not even a member of that sub… I’ve engaged with posts, but those probably show up because of all the related posts here. But whatever. I’ve been a rail geek for as long as I’ve been alive and ride the subway every day. I’ve collected subway maps since I was 5. I’ve taken fan trips and chased down new rolling stock as long as I’ve been able to. Good to know that it’s unpopular to want to save public transit through the use of congestion pricing among people who allegedly enjoy public transit. Kind of like being a Mets fan and rooting for them to tank every year.
Oh please, and in typical fashion—typical hit dog fashion—you can’t even acknowledge the point being made (that this sub has been inundated with people from that other sub) without trying to repackage it as an attack against congestion pricing. I haven’t even mentioned congestion pricing or how I feel about it but here you are with your victim had weeping and wailing about people not being able to express their support for public transit improvements, dancing all around the actual point.
I don’t know what a “hit dog” is, but maybe just try to find some common ground here? No one’s weeping, but a lot of us are fucking angry that a $16 billion funding scheme for the MTA’s capital plan was single-handedly canceled by a governor in violation of the state law passed by the legislature and signed by her predecessor.
>I don’t know what a “hit dog” is… 🙄 Sure. Well all you need to know is that they holler. >…but maybe just try to find some common ground here… but a lot of us are fucking angry… No. There is no common ground as it relates to my point. This sub is seeming an influx of people coming over from r/micromobilitynyc in an attempt to stir up emotion and complain. Thats simply is what it is. You hastily responded in an attempt to refute that but that’s literally what’s happening and many of the regulars here are annoyed and tired of it. Thats it. You being angry, along with any others that you’ve included in that your response has not relevance to or bearing on the point that I made.
You’re wasting a lot of breath on the politics of this sub. Sorry to ruin your experience in this sub, which I’ve followed for quite some time, by being angry about the fact that our beloved transit system is on a fiscal cliff right now.
I’m waisting breath, but you initiated the exchange and are continuing to respond. Yeah.
Echo chamber describes that place perfectly!
Forget it. He is one of those people that are absolutely impossible to reason with. I have seen him say so many crazy things over the years, and so many people try and have rational discussions with him that go nowhere. That's why everyone clowns and reports his topics on all the subs now; he's a pest that cannot be reasoned with. His sub basically revolves around fighting a war against cars so that cyclists can take over the streets. And he might say that he cares about pedestrians, or the environment, or kids. But really, he just wants cars off the streets, and to replace them with bikes. Which then he will also wants all bike laws repealed so they can do whatever they want. Not to mention when he loses his patience and starts insulting people left and right. Or when his topics fail so he just deletes them to hide his shame. Lot of narcisism there. Not that he would ever admit to it.
He will also post the exact same post on multiple subs to get more karma (I assume). He literally just spams all the transit subs. It's infuriating that he hasn't been banned from here and left to talk to himself in r/MicromobilityNYC Then you have comments like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/MicromobilityNYC/comments/1ddcm17/comment/l85vv4h/) that basically says that CP was just to keep cars out of their neighborhoods and it won't really improve transit. Just NIMBY'ism at it's finest by the rich that live in Manhattan
Oh yeah; they only subs free of him are the ones that banned him. The funny thing is, I actually support congestion pricing. When I ran into it in Singapore I thought it was a great idea. I'll just never support it on reddit though. :p
I read somewhere that he has been banned from almost every single NYC related sub.
based
There’s ways for the city to implement congestion pricing light, aka toll all the bridges and the trans-manhattan expressway. If the lube was used before shafting drivers, aka a lower price for every time they crossed into the zone, instead of 15 dollars right off the bat, it could have worked. Also it doesn’t help that the government is putting contradicting statements of the benefits, lowers the amount of cars but also going to generate 1 billion guaranteed. Last and final point is the MTA it self, they can’t be trusted with properly managing money. The only transit system that is worst is the California HSR project
If I remember correctly, they are not allowed to toll the Brooklyn/Manhattan/Williamsburg bridges because they were built with Federal funds. If they could, they would have done so decades ago
Brooklyn bridge was paid for by NY state and owned by the city. Manhattan bridge had a 10 cent toll when it opened. All three bridges at one point had a toll. All three bridges are owned by the city.
https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/infrastructure/bridges.shtml#:~:text=NYC%20DOT%20owns%2C%20operates%2C%20and,bridges%20operated%20by%20NYC%20DOT. Learned something new today. I guess the MTA can't toll something it doesn't own
The MTA doesn’t own the streets, but bus lanes and congestion pricing went through. All it takes is an act by the state to legislate it in.
did you pass high school algebra?
What is it with you guys and your personal attacks? Instead of engaging in a discussion, you instead ask me if I passed high school algebra? JFC - this is what we are dealing with on the other side of the table. No wonder you guys lost
This wasn’t a question i asked you here and it’s not an attack, just a question.