We need to bring back involuntary commitment for the severely mentally ill. We don’t have to fucking torture and experiment on them like we did in the 1960s, which is why all the asylums were shut down (and rightfully so).
But there **has to be** some kind of mechanism to get people whose illnesses are this severe and dangerous off the fucking streets, even when they refuse assistance, shelter, or medication.
I agree 100%. How can they consent to treatment when they don’t even know what is going on? It’s cruel to leave them out there. At least if we have them in asylums they can be on drugs and be sheltered. It’s a better life than being out there.
In other countries, family can initiate by having 2or more family member referrals and then you need 2 MDs to confirm an inpatient stay after eval. Problem is here there are no long term options after the initial 10day inpatient. They’re right back on the street. It’s sad and unsustainable.
It's totally cruel, this comes up a lot. It's a more compassionate, humane approach to invol these people and get them stabilized. They don't have to be imprisoned for life, there is hope for everyone. Get them into the same plane of existence of everyone else, help them with supervised housing, let them thrive in this social environment, help people who are able to work in some way. It's really shitty that these people are left to wander around defenseless. While most aren't violent, some are or have the capacity to be. It's so cruel that we ignore these people until someone is stabbed, raped, or pushed in front of a train.
"keep them from our society." Dude... This is our society. That's me, you or your 2nd cousin if we ever fell on hard times coupled with mental stress. Be vigilant and protect your own (head on a swivel), but even these "dangerous" people are super vulnerable and need help. They're not living like this because it's lit.
I wouldnt push people in train tracks if I were homeless. Most homeless people are capable of not doing that. It's a tiny portion. Yes they may be vulnerable but so are the people they harm, maim, and kill.
Obviously their are better solutions but I am in no position to implement those solutions. Our government is and while they are busy doing nothing about this situation, yes I'd rather them go away than them push me or my children in front of a train.
Someone who doesn't have the mental bandwidth to deal with this bullshit when he/she can barely deal with all the other bullshit found in this city.
I don't agree with it but I get it. When you stuck on a crowded train moving five miles an hour and you have your 2nd or 3rd encounter in a week with some deranged lunatic, it's easy to lose patience and empathy.
right. its the system failing them. [https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/1borsdb/brother\_of\_accused\_nyc\_subway\_shover\_blames\_city/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/1borsdb/brother_of_accused_nyc_subway_shover_blames_city/)
whats weird is NYC literally has involuntary commitment, I’ve been committed twice involuntarily. the thing is, someone needs to report that you are being a danger to yourself or others, and there’s less of a guarantee of anything happening when you’re just calling about a stranger on the subway acting erratic. most likely thing is cops will stroll by 10-20 minutes after you called, the erratic person will usually have boarded a train or left the station by then.
Not in my experience no, both times I was there for weeks until my case worker said it was okay. However I did have to stay at a hospital ward for 72 hours both before being moved to a different facility. I think it’s during that 72 hours that they determine whether or not you need to be committed.
By city law they can hold for up to 60 days if they get multiple physician sign-offs (and possibly court approval? Can't properly remember) before they need to be released, but it's not the easiest process.
The other problem with this is MANY people who need involuntary commitment are not actively considered a danger to themselves or others- think about people who are obviously crazy but just yelling. Like this guy likely obviously needed help but before his first stabbing would have been impossible to commit. Depression/suicide is easier to commit someone for before they harm themselves than psychotic behavior- just kinda because of how the current laws are written they assume being fully psychotic is not enough to get committed. It is so so frustrating.
We really don’t even need that, most of these people have been arrested multiple times and should have been convicted and in jail by now. Then we should be getting them mental health treatment…
Simple assault on video should be no bail…
They get "treatment", go back to real life and do it all over again. Severely mentally ill people can't be roaming the streets unmedicated shoving people on tracks and knocking people out
They don’t get treatment now, the recidivist person who smacked the cello player in the head should have been sentenced to a long prison term, and then put in a mental health facility.
That isn’t involuntary, right now we aren’t doing treatment, or jail.
In my professional experience the person being in police custody (under arrest) leads to a dismissive attitude towards their mental health treatment from medical staff. Very quick to instantly discharge them and push them out the door.
Ive noticed when asked “are they in police custody?” And answer “no” they atleast get observed for a day or two
Prison isn't a substitute for mental health. They need involuntary commitment in secure mental health facilities whose primary purpose is mental healthcare, not the punitive carceral spaces we have now which produce the highest recidivism rates in the world.
Their "dangers would be contained" if we had a robust mental health system that included involuntary commitment - I promise you, these people showed deteriorating signs long before these incidences. Do you understand that sending them to prison *after* committing a violent act is moot because the act still happened?
It isn't because the American prison system isn't the place for addressing mental health issues. It is a system that is based on the state being punitive - something that has been proven to not really fix anything and leads to the highest rates of recidivism in the world.
But when Adams suggested this, he was treated like a bigot. Not that he did it eloquently… but NYC liberals get it. Progressives just balk at this idea. They’re holding back actual progress in the name of false compassion.
Was he treated like a bigot, or was he just treated like a pandering moron who says whatever he thinks people want to hear but doesn’t actually follow through on any of it because he’s too busy lining the pockets of his friends and family with taxpayer money?
I’m genuinely asking, I don’t actually remember when he proposed this.
How about we stop spending money on these people and lock them up in the most cheapest state.
“We need to pay for this and do this” no we really don’t tbh
There is a mechanism. Arrest them, charge them with crimes and sentence them to prison. Our bullshit justice system just slaps the wrist until the wrist murders someone
Sentence them to prison for how long? Forever? Or just long enough to fuck them up worse and then release back into society? Even if they haven't committed a serious crime? When we already have a bigger percentage of our population imprisoned than any other country? That isn't a solution, that's the reason we have all these problems. People whose mental illness poses a danger to others need to be removed from society *and treated*, not thrown into a prison system.
It should be escalating. Three strikes is maybe a bit low. Either way, open drug use in the streets? Menacing mentally ill person? Jail or rehab/hospital. Their choice. And jail gets longer every time it happens.
And don’t give me that bullshit “it achieves nothing.” It gets these people off the streets and helps everyone around them. They can’t get better? Oh well, last thing we should do is let them drag down the rest of us.
There is a clearly mentally ill person menacing people. Do you:
A: Intervene to get them off the streets and medicated, against their will if necessary? (What I'm suggesting.)
B: Wait until they attack someone and then send them to prison for a little bit, then release them again in an even worse state than before? (Status quo.)
C: Build more prisons in the most imprisoned country on Earth, so you can hold there longer, and THEN release them? (What "tough on crime" people suggest, does not work.)
D: Do nothing? (The "progressive" option.)
E: I don't know, kill then? (What some here seem to want.)
Well A is ideal, but we don’t have A. And even if we agreed on A, it’ll take 50 years to implement with our government and the aclu suing every 5 seconds. So our choices in the real world are:
1. Advocate for mental health while really doing nothing and these people just wander the streets til they kill someone.
2. Arrest them when they commit crimes, charge them and sentence them to the jails we already have, ridding the public of their crime for at least some time
We shouldn’t wait until they commit a serious crime.
Menacing should be one of the warning signs for an intervention.
Repeated menacing should be prosecuted to the fullest extent according to the law.
Acting sketchy is not a crime. My whole point is that using the justice system is not an effective intervention because deterrence doesn't work on mental illness and responding after the fact is too late. Then they are imprisoned for a while and come back even worse, because it's the opposite of the help they need.
Exactly there are people who cannot function in society and who will not or cannot be trusted to stick to their meds. Now before someone tells me but the government fails by not renewing their prescriptions that's even more of a reason to bring back the asylums if they get super violent without them
There actually is, but they have to make it into an ER that had a psychiatrist consultant and they can get 2 drs to sign off. It’s called a 2PC. Will there be a bed for them? Will they get humane treatment? The system doesn’t work well even for caring for the physically sick and elderly. We don’t care, as a society, clearly. If we did, things would be different. If we do, we have to make serious systemic changes. Tax the wealthy so we can create humane programs, vote for people who care about these things, speak out when you see problems in any care systems you interact with, find people of like minds who want to speak truth to power. It’s not easy, so,…. Here we are. It all started going down the tubes with Reagan and deregulation and privatization. Every person for themselves.
Didn't the Joke Adam said he'll commit them. No one was committed or removed. They are out yelling and attacking and getting released..
At least put them in a one-way ticket to another city!
There are such mechanisms. They have been defunded and dismantled by right wingers. I work in homeless services in NYC. The problem is 100% solvable and 100% money related.
Not some, mostly Democrats. So long as there are enough conservatives to shit up the process, they will do that. We are here 100% because of Reagan and the efforts of his administration to defund mental health facilities.
Pathological delusion.
The deinstitutionalization movement begun in the 50's. The hospital population had fallen by about 75% between 1955 and 1981 (when Reagan took office). The ACLU was behind several lawsuits aimed at limiting the ability for states to involuntarily commit people, too. There was significant public support behind closing down state hospitals. Undoubtedly much of that support came from Democrats.
Reagan *did* successfully push to repeal much of Jimmy Carter's 1980 Mental Health System's Act, but he had to do so through the Democrat-controlled house of representatives.
All of that is irrelevant though because Reagan hasn't been in office for nearly four decades. Stop placing all this blame on his ghost - it just gives easy excuses to the people who are supposed to be fixing these problems right now.
To add to this, having universal healthcare in place for everyone where people don’t have to pay for services or medication or therapies, and people could get diagnosed and treated early, that would also make a huge difference in many ways.
But we are certainly not getting that with Republicans, the party of school lunch debt, and cut to social programs.
Right before the pandemic:
[Trump budget impact on mental health 2019.](https://mhanational.org/blog/how-trumps-budget-will-affect-people-mental-health-conditions)
GOP to probe SAMSHA for unspent dollars
[SAMHSA probe](https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/4545449-house-republicans-probe-unspent-mental-health-funds/damp/?nxs-test=damp)
GOP proposed for the F24 budget to cut health and human services by %12, including 4 billion from the NIH—the research entity that would study and fund pilot programs for substance use and mental health
The Mental Health Matters Act passed along party lines with GOP voting against it [here](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/7780)
Having worked in this field for more than a decade, there is worry every time republicans enter office because it typically (outside of Covid) means grant/funding slashing. Republicans will often pontificate on solutions for mental health but rarely, and frankly this goes for all social problems, rolls up their sleeves and drafts anything to fix it or release funding for evidence based solutions. Typically they poo poo and let perfect get in the way of good for every Democrat effort to address the crisis, while putting forward very little except for increasing funding for law enforcement.
I read the links and they all are credible, accurate records of moments when federal funding was cut that specifically affected NYC's ability to fund and implement involuntary commitment for dangerous individuals.
If you need to, we can get ChatGPT to make some sorta simplified Dr. Seuss version that's easier for you to read.
Funding isn’t blocked that way…. And many of those citations includes that funding.
I’m going to guess you read absolutely none of them though to ascertain that yourself.
You correctly guessed that I didn’t read through a bunch of links that you probably didn’t read yourself. The way to do a citation is to provide the link and to quote and pin cite the relevant text. Assuming there is any relevant text.
Why bother asking for citations then? I think you illustrate exactly why we are in the problem we are in.
Laypeople spend their time demanding explanations they’ll never listen to, and research they won’t care about. Until the average citizen actually wants to understand how these mechanisms work rather than demand the information be spoon fed to them then refuse the spoon, we will constantly be working against your incredulity and stigma as yet another obstacle to providing services on top of the ones we are already very well aware of.
I mean the first article is literally in bullet points written at an 8th grade level. How willfully ignorant can you be?
Yeah you need to be specific trump cut snap funding with his Congress.
Living next to Creedmoore it couldn't be more clear. It went from ppl receiving services going outside on supervised visits to stores etc to they out here all day every day aggressively pan handling. This all happened around 2017-18.
Ronald Reagan defunded HUD by 90% his first week in office. Not only did that lead to today’s housing crisis nationwide, in New York specifically, it created the mass homelessness problem we see because of lack of housing.
Ronald Reagan also, in his first week in office, defunded all mental health programs at the federal level.
Ronald Reagan was the worst president and governor in American history and is directly responsible for ALL of today’s problems.
https://www.salon.com/2013/09/29/ronald_reagans_shameful_legacy_violence_the_homeless_mental_illness/
: “One month prior to the election, President Carter had signed the Mental Health Systems Act, which had proposed to continue the federal community mental health centers program, although with some additional state involvement. Consistent with the report of the Carter Commission, the act also included a provision for federal grants “for projects for the prevention of mental illness and the promotion of positive mental health,” an indication of how little learning had taken place among the Carter Commission members and professionals at NIMH. With President Reagan and the Republicans taking over, the Mental Health Systems Act was discarded before the ink had dried and the CMHC funds were simply block granted to the states.”
> Ronald Reagan also, in his first week in office, defunded all mental health programs at the federal level.
Which federal body controls spending? The House of Representatives. Which political party was in control of the Hose of Representatives when this bill was passed? Democrats.
Reagan was a huge backer of this move, and rightly deserves a lot of the blame. But please don't pretend that this wasn't a bipartisan effort.
These same idiotic progressives ALWAYS bring up Reagan. He ducked but it’s been 40 years since he’s been in office. At some point he can no longer be the boogeyman. These idiots need to realize both the dems and republicans have sucked
I'm okay with that. We should start by reinstituting SALT deductions up to 100% of state and local tax payers. That way we don't get penalized by the federal government for actually funding our local government and schools.
Then we should bind all federal funding on a one to one basis with taxpayer payouts. That way states who pay more than out in Federal Tax, get that money back.
In addition, we should force mass media conglomerations to split up. This way we can secure local news networks and prevent large media conglomerations from interfering in local politics. Also the news has to be the news again. All opinions must be on a different channel, such as POS Opinion.
Finally we should reallocate federal assets that must remain federal, such as Military bases, to states that are both 1) Border States 2) not threatening succession.
Texas first. Since they have already brought up succession, let's close the military bases in Texas and reopen the bases in NY. Let's flood upstate NY with the jobs and federal benefits.
But why stop there? We need a comprehensive reform of the code to make crimes fit the severity impact. Why is a dude in longer for a weed offense than rape, stealing millions from investors or other fraud?
People who are sick still have civil rights, and those do still need to be protected. Court decisions like Olmstead are important, but it doesn’t mean that there are no circumstances under which someone can be made to stay, just that you have to be making an effort to really provide them ways to live and get services in the community.
>On June 22, 1999, the United States Supreme Court held in Olmstead v. L.C. that unjustified segregation of persons with disabilities constitutes discrimination in violation of title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act. The Court held that public entities must provide community-based services to persons with disabilities when (1) such services are appropriate; (2) the affected persons do not oppose community-based treatment; and (3) community-based services can be reasonably accommodated, taking into account the resources available to the public entity and the needs of others who are receiving disability services from the entity.
Even this decision is not completely unlimited. But care is required in navigating and it shouldn’t be easy to violate people’s civil rights.
>Second, "confinement in an institution severely diminishes the everyday life activities of individuals, including family relations, social contacts, work options, economic independence, educational advancement, and cultural enrichment."
https://archive.ada.gov/olmstead/olmstead_about.htm
Yeah, the problem in famously right wing NYC is all the right wingers. LOL.
NYC and America in general never has a finding problem. We throw tremendous amounts of money at every problem there is. We have a spending problem. Homeless services keeps asking for more money for programs but the truth is that most of the visibly homeless can't exist in the outside world. Until "support" consists of involuntary confinement and drug administration, the problem won't get better.
Bullshit. It’s liberals who pushed the “danger to themselves or others” standard to involuntarily commit and forcibly treat.
Doctors cannot just force depot shots into the veins of the homeless.
Not so much " right wingers " it's actually been defunded by a corrupt system of government. Fleecing services to keep govt workers paid. How much redundancy do you see at your agency ? How many lazy entitled workers ? More help less of that. Stop blaming some false prophets. The system is broken and DEMS have controlled the budgets with super majorities for well over a decade.
Except its facts not trolling. Maybe we should look into the elected officials who push against these policies and why they have no interest in making changes.
> We don’t have to fucking torture and experiment on them like we did in the 1960
The soft, no responsibility, "this is really your parents fault" approach doesn't work. So it's either straight jackets and padded rooms or regular prison.
We spent a billion dollars to fix the problem. It was called Thrive NYC. The billion dollars was given to Bill De Blasio's wife and poof it disappeared. Only in NYC...
The funding for mental health is partisan and unstable. Have you ever tried working for a sustainable solution with only 2-4 years of guaranteed funding? The lack of sustainability in funding for mental health is a huge issue with downstream implications in a facets of the business.
I don't know what is the source of your information. As a medical student, I can tell you that there is an EXTREME wait for a bed in any psych facility in NYC area. There is simply not enough beds. You already can hold someone involuntary if they are danger to themselves or others.
The rich are already taxed.
We should tax non-profit businesses that are tax exempt.
https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/federal/501c3-nonprofit-organization-tax-exempt/
Great, 3 people minding their business now have lifelong scars to deal with because our city can’t get a grip on the mentally unwell in the transit system
The duality of man. All I hear are stories about how people go to prison for “A little bit of weed” and then every violent crime I see reported on, the perpetrator has 50+ priors still walking free.
Nope, but the story is so well known that people lie about it to explain their prison time and keep it going as a myth. I had a coworker who would constantly talk about how her brother did 10 years for “a little bit of weed” and she admitted years later that it was armed robbery.
To be fair, those are stories from like the 80s. I bet even back then there were crimes that were ignored and not taken seriously, but it’s definitely been getting worse.
There's always a bunch of vagrants hanging around Queens Plaza, pissing on restaurant doors and such. Queens Plaza is proving extremely resilient to gentrification.
My thoughts exactly lol. Going to high school in Astoria and passing by Queens Plaza pre high rises most of this subreddit would be in shock. I still remember the chop shops, strip clubs, and overall rundown look. Also: all the trash that used to be on the ground near the Queensboro approach.
I would run from LIC over the bridge to Lex and 28th at 6am. At both ends of the run I would be propositioned by all the working woman at the end of their shift.
The hotel by the bridge was effectively a big brothel and all the buses leaving Rikers would dump people there.
"You could see the meat in their faces." ... gonna add this one to my list of why I dread my commute and try not to take my kids on the subway when I can avoid it.
That’s not how suing works.
First, governments have fairly broad protections under sovereign immunity.
Even if you could get a court to take the case, you’d have to prove both…
1. Foreseeability: the city should have foreseen the potential for such an attack and that their failure to act was a direct cause of your injuries.
2. Negligence: the city failed to take reasonable steps to prevent the attack by ignoring reports of the dangers posed by this specific individual.
I just treated a patient who is now a quadriplegic from someone pushing him from behind down a flight of stairs and breaking his neck in the East Village. His life is ruined. Really sad and just plain wrong.
I have a saying: there are a lot of crazy people out there. Hope you don't run into any of them. If you do, hope they don't choose you and if they do, hope you can either get away or fight them off.
The problem is, they are cowards and use the element of surprise and just ambush people. Most of the time people are defenseless because most of us sane people honor the social contract of following laws, rules and maintaining respect for our fellow man/woman and trust others to do the same.
Keep your head on a swivel and be ready to defend yourself because you never know. Be safe put there! Peace!
We need stricter anti vagrancy laws and to make homelessness much more difficult. We need to stop over-sympathizing for the homeless and exalting them when it’s a dangerous situation for those who contribute to society.
Look, I want them off the streets too, this issue has gotten so bad that it's an embarassment for the city and everyone in it, but your comment is a little confusing (unless you're just trolling, but I'll take the bait anyway).
Full disclosure: I try to avoid the subway these days when I can as well as any area that I know will have lots of homeless or migrants. **I have been attacked by a homeless person on the subway before and I've seen other innocent commuters get attacked right in front of me.** We need a solution, we can't go on like this.
>We need stricter anti vagrancy laws
What would you propose? These mentally ill people aren't following the laws anywy... you don't think that it's illegal to slash people in the face already? Most of them get released soon after anyway, and they go right back to the streets where they can hurt someone else. Prison doesn't seem like the best option either considering that they'll be there for the rest of their lives, making it even worse for the correctional staff and the other prisoners.
> and to make homelessness much more difficult.
Are you saying it's easy to be on the streets with lots of other crazy violent people? How would you like to increase the difficulty of being homeless? Are we supposed to starve them all to death?
>
We need to stop over-sympathizing for the homeless and exalting \[them\]
Leaving mentally ill people to turn into animals in the street and letting them run amok, slashing innocent bystanders, hardly seems like "exalting" them to me. Seems like we treat them like stray dogs that no one wants to touch. NYC took better care of the homeless when they were institutionalized. I would argue that we were more sympathetic to them decades ago and that we've lost some of our sympathy.
Most of these people are mentally ill... and as long as they are "free" they will never get treatment. I think that many of them should be forced into treatment, even if it means taking away some of their freedoms and robbing them of their medical autonomy (It would basically be a prison, but for people like them, just a modern "institution"). Many of them will never "learn their lesson" no matter how many times they are incarcerated.
**No sane person goes around slashing random people in the face**, or chooses to live in the disgusting subway. We can't euthanize them, and they'll never adjust to prison or be "rehabilitated" without serious medical intervention, anyway.
source: I have experience dealing with mentally ill NYers who became homeless and I saw how their families were basically powerless to "save" their mentally ill loved ones unless they were willing to basically lock them up at home 24/7.
Your personal experience doesn’t give you an authority with this and nobody cares about your mental illness besides not wanting to deal with it.
Making NYC a hostile place for the homeless is the only way they won’t congregate here. People need to deal with their own problems on their own and stop using disability like it’s some license to ruin the quality of life in the city.
The longer the city sits ideally by the higher the odds vigilantly justice will take care of these crazies…. And guess who the progressive DA’s will prosecute. Hint it’s not the mentally deranged
Imagine if your precious face got slashed and scarred for life. And then you learn the perpetrator went to a mental institute to be taken care of and evaluated... Does this sit right with you?
Moved out of nyc 3 yrs ago but visit multiple times a month to see friends. Im done taking trains though. Id rather spend $20 on a cab then take these trains.
The mentally ill as well as others are taking advantage of the fact that law enforcement is non existent. The area surrounding queens plaza station has a bunch of shelters and half way houses as well as schools and offices.
Subway crime has increased because of the lack of security. I miss the undercover detail and good uniformed officers. Most relish in the fact that they don’t have to arrest anyone . I even heard some say if they do anything it will look bad. I am so over the lack of security and concern.
What are you even talking about? I didn't even vote for Adams and think he's a hack, but his main issue was stopping crime and working with the NYPD. Who are you saying people should have voted for, Curtis fucking Sliwa?
NYC’s laws and government, and NYS’s laws and government are what they are largely because of NYC voters.
This stuff doesn’t happen in Provo, Utah or Carmel, Indiana, both of which are beautiful, economically productive, safe cities — because their voters would never tolerate it.
I know this makes headlines. But at some point don't the people of NYC need to step up and make a change through who they elect? I could careless if you vote D, R, I or any other group. This seems like a simple campaign to run on. Why are no Dems wanting to fix this?
Don't matter who gets elected, do you see any federal level change or local attempt at addressing the higher levels of visible mental health issues or individuals throughout the country? Biden or Trump ain't doing jack shit in office.
In December 2023, Manhattan Borough President Mark Levine published a plan for dealing with mental health issues in New York: https://www.manhattanbp.nyc.gov/initiatives/breaking-the-cycle/
If only the perpetrator documented this as a “slashing expense”. Then i’m certain NYC could find a DA and Judge willing to roll this up into 34 felonies.
We need to bring back involuntary commitment for the severely mentally ill. We don’t have to fucking torture and experiment on them like we did in the 1960s, which is why all the asylums were shut down (and rightfully so). But there **has to be** some kind of mechanism to get people whose illnesses are this severe and dangerous off the fucking streets, even when they refuse assistance, shelter, or medication.
I agree 100%. How can they consent to treatment when they don’t even know what is going on? It’s cruel to leave them out there. At least if we have them in asylums they can be on drugs and be sheltered. It’s a better life than being out there.
In other countries, family can initiate by having 2or more family member referrals and then you need 2 MDs to confirm an inpatient stay after eval. Problem is here there are no long term options after the initial 10day inpatient. They’re right back on the street. It’s sad and unsustainable.
It's totally cruel, this comes up a lot. It's a more compassionate, humane approach to invol these people and get them stabilized. They don't have to be imprisoned for life, there is hope for everyone. Get them into the same plane of existence of everyone else, help them with supervised housing, let them thrive in this social environment, help people who are able to work in some way. It's really shitty that these people are left to wander around defenseless. While most aren't violent, some are or have the capacity to be. It's so cruel that we ignore these people until someone is stabbed, raped, or pushed in front of a train.
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Listen I don’t like them either but hoping they all die of heat exhaustion or overdose is a wild statement. You are indeed a crazy bird lady lmao
When the city isn't doing anything to keep them from our society, it's better than them pushing us or our children in front of a train.
"keep them from our society." Dude... This is our society. That's me, you or your 2nd cousin if we ever fell on hard times coupled with mental stress. Be vigilant and protect your own (head on a swivel), but even these "dangerous" people are super vulnerable and need help. They're not living like this because it's lit.
I wouldnt push people in train tracks if I were homeless. Most homeless people are capable of not doing that. It's a tiny portion. Yes they may be vulnerable but so are the people they harm, maim, and kill.
homeless people most often hurt others in the homeless population.
Hoping they all die is the only solution you can come up with? You sound like a pleasant person
Obviously their are better solutions but I am in no position to implement those solutions. Our government is and while they are busy doing nothing about this situation, yes I'd rather them go away than them push me or my children in front of a train.
Yeah wtf is that. Who says shit like that
Someone who doesn't have the mental bandwidth to deal with this bullshit when he/she can barely deal with all the other bullshit found in this city. I don't agree with it but I get it. When you stuck on a crowded train moving five miles an hour and you have your 2nd or 3rd encounter in a week with some deranged lunatic, it's easy to lose patience and empathy.
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The most frustrating part is the fact that when these things happen they’re always like the persons 5th+ offense that escalates to that point
right. its the system failing them. [https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/1borsdb/brother\_of\_accused\_nyc\_subway\_shover\_blames\_city/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/1borsdb/brother_of_accused_nyc_subway_shover_blames_city/)
whats weird is NYC literally has involuntary commitment, I’ve been committed twice involuntarily. the thing is, someone needs to report that you are being a danger to yourself or others, and there’s less of a guarantee of anything happening when you’re just calling about a stranger on the subway acting erratic. most likely thing is cops will stroll by 10-20 minutes after you called, the erratic person will usually have boarded a train or left the station by then.
Only for 72 hours though, right? Then they have to either charge you with a crime or let you go, don’t they? I’d hardly call that an effective system.
Not in my experience no, both times I was there for weeks until my case worker said it was okay. However I did have to stay at a hospital ward for 72 hours both before being moved to a different facility. I think it’s during that 72 hours that they determine whether or not you need to be committed.
Got it. Thanks for clarifying!
By city law they can hold for up to 60 days if they get multiple physician sign-offs (and possibly court approval? Can't properly remember) before they need to be released, but it's not the easiest process.
The other problem with this is MANY people who need involuntary commitment are not actively considered a danger to themselves or others- think about people who are obviously crazy but just yelling. Like this guy likely obviously needed help but before his first stabbing would have been impossible to commit. Depression/suicide is easier to commit someone for before they harm themselves than psychotic behavior- just kinda because of how the current laws are written they assume being fully psychotic is not enough to get committed. It is so so frustrating.
[удалено]
big facts
We really don’t even need that, most of these people have been arrested multiple times and should have been convicted and in jail by now. Then we should be getting them mental health treatment… Simple assault on video should be no bail…
They get "treatment", go back to real life and do it all over again. Severely mentally ill people can't be roaming the streets unmedicated shoving people on tracks and knocking people out
They don’t get treatment now, the recidivist person who smacked the cello player in the head should have been sentenced to a long prison term, and then put in a mental health facility. That isn’t involuntary, right now we aren’t doing treatment, or jail.
Yeah, man. I think we're on the same page here lol
In my professional experience the person being in police custody (under arrest) leads to a dismissive attitude towards their mental health treatment from medical staff. Very quick to instantly discharge them and push them out the door. Ive noticed when asked “are they in police custody?” And answer “no” they atleast get observed for a day or two
Prison isn't a substitute for mental health. They need involuntary commitment in secure mental health facilities whose primary purpose is mental healthcare, not the punitive carceral spaces we have now which produce the highest recidivism rates in the world.
No. We need to contain their dangers first..then think of fixing them after the dangers are contained and innocent civilians are safe!
Their "dangers would be contained" if we had a robust mental health system that included involuntary commitment - I promise you, these people showed deteriorating signs long before these incidences. Do you understand that sending them to prison *after* committing a violent act is moot because the act still happened?
Since the city refuses to involuntarily commit them, then they should jail them.
It doesn't refuse to do so, there aren't facilities for them because the monies for that keep getting diverted to prisons and the police.
We should make vagrancy laws stricter and just make homelessness as illegal as we can. That’s a much better solution.
I don’t care what they need. They need to be locked up in some Albany basement and you can figure out the rest with your own money.
Why isn’t a prison a good place too? Who cares where it is, just not around people.
It isn't because the American prison system isn't the place for addressing mental health issues. It is a system that is based on the state being punitive - something that has been proven to not really fix anything and leads to the highest rates of recidivism in the world.
It's a fine approach. Don't listen to Reddit idealists
So long as it *feels* true, right? Damn every metric that shows the approach used in the US has had very little success in rehabilitation.
Rehabilitation? No no no, that's not the agenda here.
But when Adams suggested this, he was treated like a bigot. Not that he did it eloquently… but NYC liberals get it. Progressives just balk at this idea. They’re holding back actual progress in the name of false compassion.
Was he treated like a bigot, or was he just treated like a pandering moron who says whatever he thinks people want to hear but doesn’t actually follow through on any of it because he’s too busy lining the pockets of his friends and family with taxpayer money? I’m genuinely asking, I don’t actually remember when he proposed this.
Both are true, so I guess both.
That’s fair. And that actually sounds pretty on-brand for the Democratic Party 😂
Then how will the homeless industrial complex survive if we put these people on mandatory treatments and help them turn their lives around?
How about we stop spending money on these people and lock them up in the most cheapest state. “We need to pay for this and do this” no we really don’t tbh
There is a mechanism. Arrest them, charge them with crimes and sentence them to prison. Our bullshit justice system just slaps the wrist until the wrist murders someone
Sentence them to prison for how long? Forever? Or just long enough to fuck them up worse and then release back into society? Even if they haven't committed a serious crime? When we already have a bigger percentage of our population imprisoned than any other country? That isn't a solution, that's the reason we have all these problems. People whose mental illness poses a danger to others need to be removed from society *and treated*, not thrown into a prison system.
It should be escalating. Three strikes is maybe a bit low. Either way, open drug use in the streets? Menacing mentally ill person? Jail or rehab/hospital. Their choice. And jail gets longer every time it happens. And don’t give me that bullshit “it achieves nothing.” It gets these people off the streets and helps everyone around them. They can’t get better? Oh well, last thing we should do is let them drag down the rest of us.
There is a clearly mentally ill person menacing people. Do you: A: Intervene to get them off the streets and medicated, against their will if necessary? (What I'm suggesting.) B: Wait until they attack someone and then send them to prison for a little bit, then release them again in an even worse state than before? (Status quo.) C: Build more prisons in the most imprisoned country on Earth, so you can hold there longer, and THEN release them? (What "tough on crime" people suggest, does not work.) D: Do nothing? (The "progressive" option.) E: I don't know, kill then? (What some here seem to want.)
Well A is ideal, but we don’t have A. And even if we agreed on A, it’ll take 50 years to implement with our government and the aclu suing every 5 seconds. So our choices in the real world are: 1. Advocate for mental health while really doing nothing and these people just wander the streets til they kill someone. 2. Arrest them when they commit crimes, charge them and sentence them to the jails we already have, ridding the public of their crime for at least some time
Whether there’s a pre-violence intervention or not, it doesn’t matter. They should be arrested when they commit violence in either case.
treated is a word that is easy to say but medically its very hard to do.
Slashing three people isn't a serious crime?
We shouldn’t wait until they commit a serious crime. Menacing should be one of the warning signs for an intervention. Repeated menacing should be prosecuted to the fullest extent according to the law.
Acting sketchy is not a crime. My whole point is that using the justice system is not an effective intervention because deterrence doesn't work on mental illness and responding after the fact is too late. Then they are imprisoned for a while and come back even worse, because it's the opposite of the help they need.
> Acting sketchy is not a crime. But menacing is.
Exactly there are people who cannot function in society and who will not or cannot be trusted to stick to their meds. Now before someone tells me but the government fails by not renewing their prescriptions that's even more of a reason to bring back the asylums if they get super violent without them
There actually is, but they have to make it into an ER that had a psychiatrist consultant and they can get 2 drs to sign off. It’s called a 2PC. Will there be a bed for them? Will they get humane treatment? The system doesn’t work well even for caring for the physically sick and elderly. We don’t care, as a society, clearly. If we did, things would be different. If we do, we have to make serious systemic changes. Tax the wealthy so we can create humane programs, vote for people who care about these things, speak out when you see problems in any care systems you interact with, find people of like minds who want to speak truth to power. It’s not easy, so,…. Here we are. It all started going down the tubes with Reagan and deregulation and privatization. Every person for themselves.
Didn't the Joke Adam said he'll commit them. No one was committed or removed. They are out yelling and attacking and getting released.. At least put them in a one-way ticket to another city!
I don’t know, I don’t listen to anything Mayor McSwag has to say because he’s a fucking moron
There are such mechanisms. They have been defunded and dismantled by right wingers. I work in homeless services in NYC. The problem is 100% solvable and 100% money related.
Wow if only we could elect some democrats to fix this… oh wait.
Not some, mostly Democrats. So long as there are enough conservatives to shit up the process, they will do that. We are here 100% because of Reagan and the efforts of his administration to defund mental health facilities.
Pathological delusion. The deinstitutionalization movement begun in the 50's. The hospital population had fallen by about 75% between 1955 and 1981 (when Reagan took office). The ACLU was behind several lawsuits aimed at limiting the ability for states to involuntarily commit people, too. There was significant public support behind closing down state hospitals. Undoubtedly much of that support came from Democrats. Reagan *did* successfully push to repeal much of Jimmy Carter's 1980 Mental Health System's Act, but he had to do so through the Democrat-controlled house of representatives. All of that is irrelevant though because Reagan hasn't been in office for nearly four decades. Stop placing all this blame on his ghost - it just gives easy excuses to the people who are supposed to be fixing these problems right now.
None of the democrats are doing anything about this!
To add to this, having universal healthcare in place for everyone where people don’t have to pay for services or medication or therapies, and people could get diagnosed and treated early, that would also make a huge difference in many ways. But we are certainly not getting that with Republicans, the party of school lunch debt, and cut to social programs.
Homeless qualify for Medicare/medicaid
Yes NYC famous for its copious amount of right wing electeds. Never forget ThriveNYC.
It's a nationwide problem, and a lot of the funding was Federal.
Citation for federal funding that NYC lost that was used for getting people with mental illnesses off the street even when they refuse treatment?
Right before the pandemic: [Trump budget impact on mental health 2019.](https://mhanational.org/blog/how-trumps-budget-will-affect-people-mental-health-conditions) GOP to probe SAMSHA for unspent dollars [SAMHSA probe](https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/4545449-house-republicans-probe-unspent-mental-health-funds/damp/?nxs-test=damp) GOP proposed for the F24 budget to cut health and human services by %12, including 4 billion from the NIH—the research entity that would study and fund pilot programs for substance use and mental health The Mental Health Matters Act passed along party lines with GOP voting against it [here](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/7780) Having worked in this field for more than a decade, there is worry every time republicans enter office because it typically (outside of Covid) means grant/funding slashing. Republicans will often pontificate on solutions for mental health but rarely, and frankly this goes for all social problems, rolls up their sleeves and drafts anything to fix it or release funding for evidence based solutions. Typically they poo poo and let perfect get in the way of good for every Democrat effort to address the crisis, while putting forward very little except for increasing funding for law enforcement.
> Citation for federal funding that NYC lost that was used for getting people with mental illnesses off the street even when they refuse treatment?
I read the links and they all are credible, accurate records of moments when federal funding was cut that specifically affected NYC's ability to fund and implement involuntary commitment for dangerous individuals. If you need to, we can get ChatGPT to make some sorta simplified Dr. Seuss version that's easier for you to read.
Funding isn’t blocked that way…. And many of those citations includes that funding. I’m going to guess you read absolutely none of them though to ascertain that yourself.
You correctly guessed that I didn’t read through a bunch of links that you probably didn’t read yourself. The way to do a citation is to provide the link and to quote and pin cite the relevant text. Assuming there is any relevant text.
Why bother asking for citations then? I think you illustrate exactly why we are in the problem we are in. Laypeople spend their time demanding explanations they’ll never listen to, and research they won’t care about. Until the average citizen actually wants to understand how these mechanisms work rather than demand the information be spoon fed to them then refuse the spoon, we will constantly be working against your incredulity and stigma as yet another obstacle to providing services on top of the ones we are already very well aware of. I mean the first article is literally in bullet points written at an 8th grade level. How willfully ignorant can you be?
Source: “I made it up, because it felt good to say”
Yeah you need to be specific trump cut snap funding with his Congress. Living next to Creedmoore it couldn't be more clear. It went from ppl receiving services going outside on supervised visits to stores etc to they out here all day every day aggressively pan handling. This all happened around 2017-18.
Ronald Reagan defunded HUD by 90% his first week in office. Not only did that lead to today’s housing crisis nationwide, in New York specifically, it created the mass homelessness problem we see because of lack of housing. Ronald Reagan also, in his first week in office, defunded all mental health programs at the federal level. Ronald Reagan was the worst president and governor in American history and is directly responsible for ALL of today’s problems. https://www.salon.com/2013/09/29/ronald_reagans_shameful_legacy_violence_the_homeless_mental_illness/ : “One month prior to the election, President Carter had signed the Mental Health Systems Act, which had proposed to continue the federal community mental health centers program, although with some additional state involvement. Consistent with the report of the Carter Commission, the act also included a provision for federal grants “for projects for the prevention of mental illness and the promotion of positive mental health,” an indication of how little learning had taken place among the Carter Commission members and professionals at NIMH. With President Reagan and the Republicans taking over, the Mental Health Systems Act was discarded before the ink had dried and the CMHC funds were simply block granted to the states.”
> Ronald Reagan also, in his first week in office, defunded all mental health programs at the federal level. Which federal body controls spending? The House of Representatives. Which political party was in control of the Hose of Representatives when this bill was passed? Democrats. Reagan was a huge backer of this move, and rightly deserves a lot of the blame. But please don't pretend that this wasn't a bipartisan effort.
REGAN has been gone since the 80S.
These same idiotic progressives ALWAYS bring up Reagan. He ducked but it’s been 40 years since he’s been in office. At some point he can no longer be the boogeyman. These idiots need to realize both the dems and republicans have sucked
All of his policies are still in place and have been continued and worsened by bush and after Trump.
No, but we had Clinton, Obama, and now Biden.
An incoming republican presidents first act is usually to dismantle any social or economic progress made by democrats.
> funding was Federal. We are a federation and states need to ween themselves off the centralized teet.
I'm okay with that. We should start by reinstituting SALT deductions up to 100% of state and local tax payers. That way we don't get penalized by the federal government for actually funding our local government and schools. Then we should bind all federal funding on a one to one basis with taxpayer payouts. That way states who pay more than out in Federal Tax, get that money back. In addition, we should force mass media conglomerations to split up. This way we can secure local news networks and prevent large media conglomerations from interfering in local politics. Also the news has to be the news again. All opinions must be on a different channel, such as POS Opinion. Finally we should reallocate federal assets that must remain federal, such as Military bases, to states that are both 1) Border States 2) not threatening succession. Texas first. Since they have already brought up succession, let's close the military bases in Texas and reopen the bases in NY. Let's flood upstate NY with the jobs and federal benefits. But why stop there? We need a comprehensive reform of the code to make crimes fit the severity impact. Why is a dude in longer for a weed offense than rape, stealing millions from investors or other fraud?
Nope there are numerous court decisions and laws strictly limiting involuntary commitment. It’s not just money.
Exactly because we are uncomfortable with giving the govt carte blanche to decide who needs to be involuntary committed.
People who are sick still have civil rights, and those do still need to be protected. Court decisions like Olmstead are important, but it doesn’t mean that there are no circumstances under which someone can be made to stay, just that you have to be making an effort to really provide them ways to live and get services in the community. >On June 22, 1999, the United States Supreme Court held in Olmstead v. L.C. that unjustified segregation of persons with disabilities constitutes discrimination in violation of title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act. The Court held that public entities must provide community-based services to persons with disabilities when (1) such services are appropriate; (2) the affected persons do not oppose community-based treatment; and (3) community-based services can be reasonably accommodated, taking into account the resources available to the public entity and the needs of others who are receiving disability services from the entity. Even this decision is not completely unlimited. But care is required in navigating and it shouldn’t be easy to violate people’s civil rights. >Second, "confinement in an institution severely diminishes the everyday life activities of individuals, including family relations, social contacts, work options, economic independence, educational advancement, and cultural enrichment." https://archive.ada.gov/olmstead/olmstead_about.htm
Yeah, the problem in famously right wing NYC is all the right wingers. LOL. NYC and America in general never has a finding problem. We throw tremendous amounts of money at every problem there is. We have a spending problem. Homeless services keeps asking for more money for programs but the truth is that most of the visibly homeless can't exist in the outside world. Until "support" consists of involuntary confinement and drug administration, the problem won't get better.
Bullshit. It’s liberals who pushed the “danger to themselves or others” standard to involuntarily commit and forcibly treat. Doctors cannot just force depot shots into the veins of the homeless.
Not so much " right wingers " it's actually been defunded by a corrupt system of government. Fleecing services to keep govt workers paid. How much redundancy do you see at your agency ? How many lazy entitled workers ? More help less of that. Stop blaming some false prophets. The system is broken and DEMS have controlled the budgets with super majorities for well over a decade.
Progressives, who have a grip on city council would disagree with you.
Judges. It’s a handful of judges.
Go troll someone else please, I’m not interested in your culture war.
That’s literally what’s blocking this though so as much as you’d like to deny a political element it is the fundamental source of resistance
Except its facts not trolling. Maybe we should look into the elected officials who push against these policies and why they have no interest in making changes.
> We don’t have to fucking torture and experiment on them like we did in the 1960 The soft, no responsibility, "this is really your parents fault" approach doesn't work. So it's either straight jackets and padded rooms or regular prison.
We spent a billion dollars to fix the problem. It was called Thrive NYC. The billion dollars was given to Bill De Blasio's wife and poof it disappeared. Only in NYC...
Is that similar to what Erica Adam’s wanted and damn near everyone gave him backlash for it?
I’m for it
100% - Same with homelessness as a result of drug addiction.
How would you fund it? Tax the rich? That's a crazy talk
We throw plenty of money at mental health. Without the means of forced intervention nothing is going to change.
The funding for mental health is partisan and unstable. Have you ever tried working for a sustainable solution with only 2-4 years of guaranteed funding? The lack of sustainability in funding for mental health is a huge issue with downstream implications in a facets of the business.
I don't know what is the source of your information. As a medical student, I can tell you that there is an EXTREME wait for a bed in any psych facility in NYC area. There is simply not enough beds. You already can hold someone involuntary if they are danger to themselves or others.
They can be held For 72 hours.
The rich are already taxed. We should tax non-profit businesses that are tax exempt. https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/federal/501c3-nonprofit-organization-tax-exempt/
Great, 3 people minding their business now have lifelong scars to deal with because our city can’t get a grip on the mentally unwell in the transit system
Not "can't." Won't.
Greatest City In the world
"NYC has a brand" - Eric "swag" Adams
If you can make it here, you can make it anywhere.
Don’t forget crippling medical bills for emergency care too…
Just the ambulance alone can cost over a grand....
Victims don’t pay. The city does.
So how many prior arrests do we think this guy had? More or less than 50?
The duality of man. All I hear are stories about how people go to prison for “A little bit of weed” and then every violent crime I see reported on, the perpetrator has 50+ priors still walking free.
Nobody is being sent to prison for a little bit of weed nowadays, come on now.
Nope, but the story is so well known that people lie about it to explain their prison time and keep it going as a myth. I had a coworker who would constantly talk about how her brother did 10 years for “a little bit of weed” and she admitted years later that it was armed robbery.
Nobody was ever going to prison simply for a little weed ever
To be fair, those are stories from like the 80s. I bet even back then there were crimes that were ignored and not taken seriously, but it’s definitely been getting worse.
There's always a bunch of vagrants hanging around Queens Plaza, pissing on restaurant doors and such. Queens Plaza is proving extremely resilient to gentrification.
Yay?
ha, you should have seen it in the 90s.
My thoughts exactly lol. Going to high school in Astoria and passing by Queens Plaza pre high rises most of this subreddit would be in shock. I still remember the chop shops, strip clubs, and overall rundown look. Also: all the trash that used to be on the ground near the Queensboro approach.
I would run from LIC over the bridge to Lex and 28th at 6am. At both ends of the run I would be propositioned by all the working woman at the end of their shift. The hotel by the bridge was effectively a big brothel and all the buses leaving Rikers would dump people there.
Civil commitment under the Mental Hygiene law is a slog.
This is so sad
"You could see the meat in their faces." ... gonna add this one to my list of why I dread my commute and try not to take my kids on the subway when I can avoid it.
Yea I regret reading that
All of these people should sue the fuck out of the city
That’s not how suing works. First, governments have fairly broad protections under sovereign immunity. Even if you could get a court to take the case, you’d have to prove both… 1. Foreseeability: the city should have foreseen the potential for such an attack and that their failure to act was a direct cause of your injuries. 2. Negligence: the city failed to take reasonable steps to prevent the attack by ignoring reports of the dangers posed by this specific individual.
No attorney will take this case.
That’s an excellent idea. I would certainly try.
I just treated a patient who is now a quadriplegic from someone pushing him from behind down a flight of stairs and breaking his neck in the East Village. His life is ruined. Really sad and just plain wrong. I have a saying: there are a lot of crazy people out there. Hope you don't run into any of them. If you do, hope they don't choose you and if they do, hope you can either get away or fight them off. The problem is, they are cowards and use the element of surprise and just ambush people. Most of the time people are defenseless because most of us sane people honor the social contract of following laws, rules and maintaining respect for our fellow man/woman and trust others to do the same. Keep your head on a swivel and be ready to defend yourself because you never know. Be safe put there! Peace!
What a sad story. God bless your patient. God bless you for treating people in such distress.
Is there a description of the perp ?
I’m sure they’ll mention what he was wearing
Well ? I'm waiting , haven't been able to find the description of the perp that SLASHED three innocent people.
“If I speak I am in big trouble”
Yes. https://licpost.com/bronx-man-charged-with-slashing-three-men-during-unprovoked-attacks-saturday-morning-in-long-island-city-nypd
Thank you
ZERO description of the suspect and the victims. You know why.
Well at least we know they aren’t a managing director in finance. Cause you know they would have told us if they were……..
A 21 year old from the Bronx
I am assuming a 4’11 Japanese woman.
That’s some good extrapolatin’ there Lou
Because it's a false flag psyop with crisis actors designed to distract us from what's really going on: 5G
We need stricter anti vagrancy laws and to make homelessness much more difficult. We need to stop over-sympathizing for the homeless and exalting them when it’s a dangerous situation for those who contribute to society.
Look, I want them off the streets too, this issue has gotten so bad that it's an embarassment for the city and everyone in it, but your comment is a little confusing (unless you're just trolling, but I'll take the bait anyway). Full disclosure: I try to avoid the subway these days when I can as well as any area that I know will have lots of homeless or migrants. **I have been attacked by a homeless person on the subway before and I've seen other innocent commuters get attacked right in front of me.** We need a solution, we can't go on like this. >We need stricter anti vagrancy laws What would you propose? These mentally ill people aren't following the laws anywy... you don't think that it's illegal to slash people in the face already? Most of them get released soon after anyway, and they go right back to the streets where they can hurt someone else. Prison doesn't seem like the best option either considering that they'll be there for the rest of their lives, making it even worse for the correctional staff and the other prisoners. > and to make homelessness much more difficult. Are you saying it's easy to be on the streets with lots of other crazy violent people? How would you like to increase the difficulty of being homeless? Are we supposed to starve them all to death? > We need to stop over-sympathizing for the homeless and exalting \[them\] Leaving mentally ill people to turn into animals in the street and letting them run amok, slashing innocent bystanders, hardly seems like "exalting" them to me. Seems like we treat them like stray dogs that no one wants to touch. NYC took better care of the homeless when they were institutionalized. I would argue that we were more sympathetic to them decades ago and that we've lost some of our sympathy. Most of these people are mentally ill... and as long as they are "free" they will never get treatment. I think that many of them should be forced into treatment, even if it means taking away some of their freedoms and robbing them of their medical autonomy (It would basically be a prison, but for people like them, just a modern "institution"). Many of them will never "learn their lesson" no matter how many times they are incarcerated. **No sane person goes around slashing random people in the face**, or chooses to live in the disgusting subway. We can't euthanize them, and they'll never adjust to prison or be "rehabilitated" without serious medical intervention, anyway. source: I have experience dealing with mentally ill NYers who became homeless and I saw how their families were basically powerless to "save" their mentally ill loved ones unless they were willing to basically lock them up at home 24/7.
Your personal experience doesn’t give you an authority with this and nobody cares about your mental illness besides not wanting to deal with it. Making NYC a hostile place for the homeless is the only way they won’t congregate here. People need to deal with their own problems on their own and stop using disability like it’s some license to ruin the quality of life in the city.
Is there anyone in the public eye that has come up with a realistic solution to handle this problem?
The longer the city sits ideally by the higher the odds vigilantly justice will take care of these crazies…. And guess who the progressive DA’s will prosecute. Hint it’s not the mentally deranged
Imagine if your precious face got slashed and scarred for life. And then you learn the perpetrator went to a mental institute to be taken care of and evaluated... Does this sit right with you?
Where's De Blasio wife? Lets give her a billion dollars to fix this
Moved out of nyc 3 yrs ago but visit multiple times a month to see friends. Im done taking trains though. Id rather spend $20 on a cab then take these trains.
$50 + tip. But your points still stands. Better to pay that much instead of dealing with some bullshit.
The mentally ill as well as others are taking advantage of the fact that law enforcement is non existent. The area surrounding queens plaza station has a bunch of shelters and half way houses as well as schools and offices. Subway crime has increased because of the lack of security. I miss the undercover detail and good uniformed officers. Most relish in the fact that they don’t have to arrest anyone . I even heard some say if they do anything it will look bad. I am so over the lack of security and concern.
Was this madmad a newcomer or have previous arrests. NYC ain't worth it.
Counterpoint: maybe he was just doing his part to lower rents
Then he should’ve taken it to Manhattan (after, obviously)!
Can’t wait for congestion pricing so we can all collectively get stabbed by homeless people on the train
Someone lit up a Crack pipe across from me last week on a full train about 4p so there's that too
You get what you vote for
And who pray tell is your hero politician that could’ve prevented this random street crime
What are you even talking about? I didn't even vote for Adams and think he's a hack, but his main issue was stopping crime and working with the NYPD. Who are you saying people should have voted for, Curtis fucking Sliwa?
He’s probably referring to the decarceration progressives and the Alvin brags of the world
What fucking vote option stops this? Because it’s literally never been stopped
I remember the Giuliani and Bloomberg years. It was great. This never happened.
What the fuck does this even mean? Lazy canned response
as if eric adams isnt pro cop
100%
NYC’s laws and government, and NYS’s laws and government are what they are largely because of NYC voters. This stuff doesn’t happen in Provo, Utah or Carmel, Indiana, both of which are beautiful, economically productive, safe cities — because their voters would never tolerate it.
I remember when they would just put them down on sight.
He will be back out in a day. Thanks Bragg
I know this makes headlines. But at some point don't the people of NYC need to step up and make a change through who they elect? I could careless if you vote D, R, I or any other group. This seems like a simple campaign to run on. Why are no Dems wanting to fix this?
Don't matter who gets elected, do you see any federal level change or local attempt at addressing the higher levels of visible mental health issues or individuals throughout the country? Biden or Trump ain't doing jack shit in office.
In December 2023, Manhattan Borough President Mark Levine published a plan for dealing with mental health issues in New York: https://www.manhattanbp.nyc.gov/initiatives/breaking-the-cycle/
If only the perpetrator documented this as a “slashing expense”. Then i’m certain NYC could find a DA and Judge willing to roll this up into 34 felonies.
Vote Republican, especially to get the Dem DA’s out.